Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

The only thing that was toxic was being forced to play other classes when we only main 1 or two. I’m tired of the, “I don’t main this class but I need the rewards” mentality.It just skews matchmaking even further.

No, the toxic element was flooding sPvP with thousands of players who had absolutely no interest in sPvP. You can’t expect to have a healthy multiplayer environment when many of the players do not share the same fundamental goals of what a healthy environment should be.

You have to original sPvP hardcore that actually cared about “prestige” and about fair match-ups and about honest competition between players, and then you had far more players who were just in it to clear out their achievements and get the wings so they could get back to the PvE they actually enjoyed.

Nobody benefits from that.

So whatever they do next season, it should not involve any sort of exclusive reward that would have any purpose outside of an sPvP match. It could maybe be a finisher, or a title, or a nametag flair, just nothing that a PvEer would ever say “I never want to PvP, ever, but I really do want that thing.”

I disagree. There should definitely be more PvP rewards specifically items like the backpiece. I really hope they start incorporating weapon sets, mini’s, and other armor pieces too.

It’s PvP, you’re destined to play with people who have 90% more pve playing time than you but Anet shouldn’t force these players to swap their mains for achievement sakes. That’s just a bad design; matchmaking doesn’t need more things added to it’s skewed plate.

Perhaps a bit premature in the hosting but nothing that can’t be learned and improved in the future. Thankfully there’s always a helping hand to be found within the community.

Ohoni.6057:

I hope nothing. The Ascension was toxic to PvP and to the game as a whole.

The only thing that was toxic was being forced to play other classes when we only main 1 or two. I’m tired of the, “I don’t main this class but I need the rewards” mentality.It just skews matchmaking even further.

We can have challenging rewards without needing to swap classes to do so. Knowing you have that 1 person who doesn’t main a class and gets obliterated on point, can be very frustrating.

Svarty.8019:

Supreme.3164:

No one likes to get beaten by a keyboard turning clicking baddie just because his class is better in a 1v1 fight. NOBODY

Hatred and frustration on the forum are a clear indication of what people like and dislike about competitive games.

I concur with these thoughts, but I think GW2 is too far in the opposite direction.

There’s a heap of twitchy leetdoods who obliterate mediocre players (neither keyboard turners nor speedball popping lunatics). The proliferation of these twitchers means that PvP is not as popular as a part-time endeavour among the PvE players as I’m sure Arenanet would prefer. Hence ProLeague fail and jokes about Lols eSports.

I have to concur but this is an issue with MMORPG’s in general. A lot of it is passive, flashy, play styles. It’s either incredibly boring like WoW’s Heal + DPS style or you have that bad-habit MMORPG style of passive & flashy game play.

There’s never been a moba style rpg because, only 5 skills from lvl 1 to 80 could get boring fast. That said, if PvE was competitive/fun then it would never be boring. GW3 should emphasize a moba-style Skill Set (not gameplay). Just limiting flashy and passive gameplay while having skill shot abilities that actually require timing and aim. PvE would be challenging and Conquest would be something to watch.

Xillllix.3485:

He has obviously never been moa’ed.

Well, he’s indeed in a wheel chair so..

Any streams? What’s the update on winners?

sinject.4607:

Saiyan.1704:

Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.

the Aegis access, while inherently obnoxious thanks to the fact it’s largely passive, is less a problem than the healing it provides. DH could easily do with an increase in cooldown to things like Valorous Defense to slightly reduce the crazy amount of Aegis access.

Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.

Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.

Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.

DH being overpowered is entirely thanks to onehanders + access to sustain + traps + Conquest all while being incredibly easy to play, and if Scrapper/Tempest were still as prominent as when they were overpowered, it would make zero difference at this point because onehanders are just objectively better than LB, GS, or Hammer.

There are numerous weapon sets in the game that goes unused. Whether or not a weapon set is better than another is besides the point. Nerfing Scraps and Ele to the point of getting demolished by DH when in S2 & S3 were the opposite, makes a HUGE difference in this argument. This is not a misconception.

sinject.4607:

you can keep repeating the whole DH mantra of “only bad players complain about traps” and “you’re wrong” while completely ignoring the validity of complaints, but you’re not accomplishing anything. you’re not an ESL pro that divines from the heavens what’s best for the overall game. stop acting like it. this is the entire crux of your argument and it’s a fallacy. go figure.

still waiting for justification as to why Purification shouldn’t be nerfed when it’s literally 2x as good as the next closest heal on a 4 second shorter cooldown, while DH already has 14k-15k of healing outside of their actual heal.

I’m not arguing how easy it is to make a pugstomper DH build. I posed in a similiar thread agreeing that this aspect was toxic in the casual scene and it’s entirely a trap mechanical issue. That said, Rev’s entire class mechanic skillsets is the worse. Only reason they aren’t complained is because power Rev have weaknesses unlike DH who got his 2 softcounters removed.

Purification, how many heals do you see that are 2x better than it’s core counter part? Again, besides the point. What’s factual is how our heals never changed in S2 and S3. Heck, our heals were never even brought up until now. Why do you think that is?

I work till 6:00 so wont be able to partake in the tourney.
:*(

sinject.4607:

1. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Courage
2. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Judgment
3. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valorous_Defense
4. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Determination
5. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protective_Reviver

Wow! Five!

I’m not even counting the additional Aegis from Hunter’s Determination’s FoF drop. so if you want to count those too, DH has 10 individual possible sources of Aegis. way to shoot your own argument in the foot.

Other than HoT traps & shield changes, Guardian’s Aegis proc hasn’t change much. Thieves gets dodges, Warrior face tanks, Necro’s have a second health bar, we have blocks. It’s been this way since launch.

sinject.4607:

I’ve literally only promoted a rework to traps to nullify the unfair advantage they have in a Conquest-styled gamemode, a nerf to DH’s outright dumb amount of healing, and nerfs to symbols/one hand weaponsets.

what part of this is “outrageous”?

the part where I’m suggesting Purification not heal for double the amount of Shelter while being on a 4 second shorter cooldown because DH already has access to 14-15k of healing outside of their actual heal not to mention their high access to blocks/blinds/condi cleanses?

Traps are only an issue against pug players. In ESL, that’s not what they consider “OP” I assure you. Now, reduce the effectiveness of pugstompers ya, I can agree with you there. This is the “Purging Flames” and “Ring of Fire” scenario back in pre-HoT where Burns were an issue. Pugs simply couldn’t handle them and they complained.

Why are these things suddenly OP when S2 and S3 Dragonhunters had the same, unaltered, utilities and healings? I can list 4 reasons.
1) Popularity, 2) Ele nerfed, 3) Engi nerfed, 4) DH 1-handers got buffed.

Lastly, Traps are simply an easy target for players to call nerfs to even though they have functioned fine with little to no complaints in S2 & S3. We didn’t suddenly receive 15k more heals or dealt 3k more trap damages. That’s why your nerf list is wrong.

Lucentfir.7430:

sinject.4607:

Xillllix.3485:

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

It seems that these days pretty much everyone plays DH so I’m not sure what you mean. I play DH and I think it’s completely OP, but other classes are too.

When I play ele I usually take in more damage than I make so I play DH more now. When playing DH I do about 2-3 times more damage and the same healing. Something just doesn’t had up.

well, Purification is a 9k heal, Meditations are like 5.9k, Wings of Resolve is 4.5k, Pure of Heart is 3.2k (each source of Aegis x 1), and then you have smaller heals like Writ of Persistence, Virtue of Resolve (Passive), and Selfless Daring.

the main problem imo is Purification. Compared to Shelter, the previous meta heal for Guardian, Purification provides literally double the healing on a 4 second shorter cooldown. “but that’s only if you walk on it!!” as if it that isn’t impossible in Conquest or against a DH that knows how to use their pull/teleports. I only wish Channeled Vigor was that much better than Withdraw.

Darknicrofia.2604:

because the people that complain about it apparently has no clue what’s even on a guardian’s skill bar/trait list?

weak effort. the vast majority of posts have been made by players that clearly know what they’re talking about, and then get yelled at by DH players with inane arguments that never actually address actual issues. your argument here, like most every other DH argument, is a fallacy.

i mean cmon, the OP of this thread even says he has 8000 hours on Guardian, and you’re trying to discredit him with this lame post?

I have 8.6k hours on Guardian total, not including the other half of my time playing the other classes which brings me at 16.8k hours in game total. if he wants a arming time of 5 seconds on any sort of traps on DH the same would have to apply on thief and ranger. Such as thieves being able to use steal in mid trap cast to get the activation instantly.

The vast majority of player are raging about 3 different aspects of Guardian or different builds. people are complaining about one shots from Dragon’s Maw, PoB, ToF, and walking into them. Others are complaining about guard blocks, then go as far as posting incorrect information such as F3 passive proccing every 10 seconds, and saying things such as too many passive blocks, there are only 2 passive blocks I can think of, Hunter’s Determination, and Valorous Defense, you want to toss a Virtue/Shield of Courage in there, but be honest, how many times does that passive actually proc in any real fight? Other complaint is on point pressure from the symbol build with Writ of Persistence, which one hander symbols which are probably going to be shaved a bit in damage.

Edit: Also did you say Pure of heart is 3.2k heal per Aegis break? FYI no healing power Pure of heart heals for 600+, and with good healing power 1.2k per aegis destroyed. Selfless daring is about 150-200 healing without healing power.

Kappa

DeltaZero.6310:

Saiyan.1704:

I definitely agree that some classes simply carry a lot better (user error is greater vs condi teams, etc) but a pure mmr system would be worse for casuals who make up 90% of the game. I honestly think the League system can’t get a whole lot better unless Anet looks into a smarter Matchmaking system all together.

It’s awkward double posting in two threads so, i’ll just leave this here as to why a pure mmr system would be worse.

Generally ranked anything is not aimed at casuals and gw2 even have an unranked queue. If someone gets upset that they have reached their peak in ranking then they should polish up their play in unranked instead.
The idea of a diamond that doesn’t understand that trying to rez with no teammates about when being watched for 3 mins is not helpful to his team doesn’t really makes the idea of ranked leagues worth

It’s easy to say “that’s not what Ranked is” but.. that’s exactly what’s going on in GW2 Leagues. Players from all over the game wants the Legendary wings. They want titles and they want progression. GW2 Leagues is the biggest progression this game has and casuals makes up a large part of the SPvP population. To turn it into this huge Elitist Tournament MMR system would remove a lot of the casual player base from the game because…. the mmr system never worked well to begin with.

DeltaZero.6310:

Fay.2357:

A good system rewards winning by matching the winning player with other higher skilled players until your competition is good enough that you stop winning. Our system rewards winning by attaching bigger and bigger weights to your feet until you stop winning.

The league system was a cool idea but doesn’t work in a game where carrying is a lot harder than in a moba (faster paced so less time to shotcall) and you don’t get stronger for doing well.
Honestly a pure MMR system would be best for everyone. 1000 is amber, 1200 emerald etc. Winning for losing a game makes you lose or gain mmr based on the matchmaking. So if a team has a “weight” on their side and lose they still lose MMR but not as much as if the match was even etc.

I definitely agree that some classes simply carry a lot better (user error is greater vs condi teams, etc) but a pure mmr system would be worse for casuals who make up 90% of the game. I honestly think the League system can’t get a whole lot better unless Anet looks into a smarter Matchmaking system all together.

It’s awkward double posting in two threads so, i’ll just leave this here as to why a pure mmr system would be worse.

Also like to add that some of the better thieves in the game use Staff. A thief in my guild uses it and is just a few pips away from Legendary. He doesn’t particularly have issues with DH at least, I never hear him complain.

sinject.4607:

why is it the only people defending DH are the people who play it?

literally every single profession’s playerbase has a problem with DH and somehow everyone but them is wrong.

every single defense of DH comes down to “DONT STAND ON TRAPS/SYMBOLS” when this is a point-based game, or “WAIT UNTIL THEY HAVE NO COOLDOWNS” as if you can’t rotate perfectly all the defenses DH has.

the only way to kill a DH is to play Druid and we’re expected to think this is okay.

I thought my post represented Dh pretty well. Buff Engi & Ele and nerf our 1-handers by a slight bit then slap dat kitten .

We’ve had quite a few “skill based” systems but they all evolved around win percentages. The higher it was, the higher your mmr was. Same for the players you were with.

The issues were 2 things.
1. Queue times were insane. The majority of the casual playerbase didn’t go above 55%. Those who were higher than 60% were in a team of some sort and we all know how many players team queue.

2. Casuals hated it while the elitists loved it. You could guess who had the louder voice.

This is why we have the current pip League system. It meets the Elitists and Casual player base somewhere in the middle.

Lucred.1802:

sophiewhite.3149:

Ezrael.6859:

I wouldn’t be surprised a lot of people are playing them.

Since shortly after HoT launch Guardians saw 0 representation in high level tournaments and extremely small representation in higher level divisions.
Even in the mid-ranges people were throwing abuse around to anyone playing a Guardian because it was sub-par.

Now that it’s actually been buffed to be equal to other professions and competitive of course people want to play their Guardian characters again!

There has been 8 months before July 26th when people didn’t want to play them, or others didn’t want you to play one.

ToF had an internal timer added and its duration reduced from 9s to 6s.
The initial trigger damage was reduced from 66% to 50%. Trap Dazes reduced by 50%.
PoB & Maw got a 25% cooldown nerf. True Shot damage was reduced by 20% in April.

Just remember where community PvP perceptions were only months ago

Tournament list 1 Tournament list 2

guardians werent buffed much. every other class got major nerfs.

Actual weapon damage got a rather significant buff.

Traps were actually nerfed (minorly), taking the focus off bunkering and more towards an involved-dps build. Gone are the days of seeing every guard ever running 4 traps, instead they’re running 1 or 2 for ground control and healing, and condi cleanse and burst/mobility in the other 2 slots. overall DH lethality has gone up significantly without a corresponding hit to their (already significant) sustain.

They are the only class currently that can do a mostly-glass-cannon build and not get absolutely destroyed every 1v2 due to a rather high amount of passive mitigation/avoidance.

Coupled with the related issue of class stacking (even with the nerfs, 2 DH’s worth of traps will 100-0 anybody that gets pulled/pushed/noskilled into them) they’re a bit over the top. Not outrageously so, but a bit.

1-handers have gotten a buff mainly because you can throw Scepter down then swap to Sword, stacking symbol damages. It’s why I insist on a 5% – 7% nerf on symbols.

Engineer’s reflect items shouldn’t reflect symbols, but they should definitely mitigate ground effects or gain a 10% damage reduction while their reflect shields are up.
Elementalists needs a slight dps buff overall in Air so they don’t get so facerolled by Guardians. They’re basically the middle ground between Thief and Revs anyways.

Other than that, DH is just popular due to Ele being off the grid and Engineers aren’t an issue anymore. We only need slight Rock vs Paper vs Scissors fixes. Anything more drastic and we’ll have items more unbalanced than before.

There’s definitely window’s of opportunity that most Thieves are either unaware, or don’t know how to play the wait game so they go all in.

If the Guardian has full health, odds are they have full cds. Unless you burst with a Rev or Ranger’s pet bursts first, it’ll otherwise be an uphill battle. But if you burst while he’s at half health and/or you know he already used his F3 Shield & Test of Faith trap, then he has very little to recover.

Your first CC (stun, pull, push, knockdown etc) activates his Stability trap. Guard can have a total of 3 stability items up unless he’s Symbolic built. You know he’s symbolic when his 1-hander weapon symbols are larger on point. That means he lacks F3 stability and is weaker to CC (if you attack from back).

Unlike a Necro or Rev where you have to burst head on before they get stronger later; if you play the wait game with the Guardian by deliberately watching DH health drop to half and wasting cds, that’s usually your opportunity to gank him. Bait him out with hit-&-run attacks.

If you insist on attacking a DH head on, Staff Vault builds can 1v1 him more successfully, followed by pistol builds (though not as successful).

Ranger goes lord most of game.
Insists Ranger’s strat is bad and shouldn’t be used.
He argues.
We lose by 130pnts.

Ranger is on other team.
Insist their Ranger used bad strat previous game.
Ranger rebuttals.
Their team grieved over Ranger.
We win by 340pnt lead.

Satisfaction assured.

Lexander.4579:

Saiyan.1704:

Shylock.4653:

lossofmotivation.3407:

This is how bad the state of the game is at the moment… the amount of braindead zombies around is huge.

lossofmotivation.3407:

you just see traps and passive damage / blocks / invuls and CC flying everywhere…

That happens if you try to make a game so casual that even a toddler can play it.

You’re getting confused with WoW PvP. GW2 is so much difficult that casuals are having a tougher time. Easier is always more popular, it’s why players complain sooo much about items that’s not even OP.

Lexander.4579:

funny that it took people in this game so long to realize how b/s are DHs

Prepatch, DH got countered by Ele, Engi, Rev, & Rangers. Now we only have issues with Revs & Rangers on point. They nerfed Ele and Engi while also buffing DH. Players frustrations are DH being stackable while their main classes can’t beat them anymore.

The game is balanced (for the most part) in ESL, non stackable classes, but SPvP matchmaking could still use some work.

dont think you understand that DH stacking is not the problem, the problem is that DH is so b/s that you can get away stacking them

You can get away stacking Revs and Rangers too only there’s 3 classes who could potentially hard counter them as oppose to 2 classes who soft counter DH.

Lexander.4579:

most of nerfs and buffs to DH or other classes are irrelevant and the only thing they do is forcing the community towards or away from a class, since people generally seek to play what’s “most op”, there werent changes big enough to completely change the class’ standing in sPvP outside of those crazy warrior buffs since nobody played them

you realize how ridiculous are DH traps with all the free boons they give on top of their extremely powerful effects and they go on cooldown as soon as they are placed instead of going on cooldown once they trigger or rather expire
you realize that DH elite skill that refreshes virtues is complete bullkitten now with those virtue upgrades DH got from HoT, while another elite – dragon maw does sick damage, hard limits mobility and gives free 10 stacks of might

DH simply stepped into the spotlight with the recent pack of changes and that made them noticed by players who seek ez game ez life, they’ve always been that strong

DH were strong post patch and needed trap nerfs. Our LB was strong but the nerf was done in the wrong ways (balanced for wvw rather than pvp). We were fine until other classes got nerfed and DH got buffed simultaneously. That’s exactly what happend; DH hasn’t been strong since HoT. We we’ve been the weakest class after Thief and War buffs (S2 & S3).

DH are strong now (because our paper class Ele can’t beat Rock class DH) because 2 classes can no longer go toe to toe with us. DH is more popular because of said reasons, including our counters being less in spvp.

DH needed these simple changes but the other classes didn’t need a nerf along with it. At this point, Anet needs to tune each individual class rather than the Buff + Nerf patches. They didn’t realize Virtue changes would have helped this much but I knew it was a QoL item that we really, really, needed for sustainability in burst scenarios.

TL;DR
DH was hard to make work in S2 and S3 but there were very few complaints other than the usual Thief vs ToF trap threads. You make it sound like we’ve always been meta.

Shylock.4653:

lossofmotivation.3407:

This is how bad the state of the game is at the moment… the amount of braindead zombies around is huge.

lossofmotivation.3407:

you just see traps and passive damage / blocks / invuls and CC flying everywhere…

That happens if you try to make a game so casual that even a toddler can play it.

You’re getting confused with WoW PvP. GW2 is so much difficult that casuals are having a tougher time. Easier is always more popular, it’s why players complain sooo much about items that’s not even OP.

Lexander.4579:

funny that it took people in this game so long to realize how b/s are DHs

Prepatch, DH got countered by Ele, Engi, Rev, & Rangers. Now we only have issues with Revs & Rangers on point. They nerfed Ele and Engi while also buffing DH. Players frustrations are DH being stackable while their main classes can’t beat them anymore.

The game is balanced (for the most part) in ESL, non stackable classes, but SPvP matchmaking could still use some work.

Lucred.1802:

kin korn karn.9023:

Lucred.1802:

I can’t say they’re really encouraging players to play classes they’re unfamiliar with in league games, that’s pretty much the whole point of hotjoin and unranked.

This boils down to a kittenty player base.

Sure you could say that. Players are encouraged to play specific professions for any game type. I blame the player base for making poor decisions as well, but Anet absolutely is complicit and absolutely could do something to end it.

And don’t forget the other complaint, that it screws with team comps. Whether the player is proficient are not, nobody wants to play ranked matches in which half the players are using the same class. It’s absurd.

As for “the whole point of hotjoin and unranked,” I thought you didn’t want players to have to use two different game types to get the achieves. You’re contradicting yourself.

To me at least there’s a difference between
I have no idea what I’m doing, so I’ll (willfully/knowingly) force other players to deal with my incompetence in a timed competitive event with penalties for losing
and
I play several classes decently well. Today’s [X] class day, I’m decent with [X] class, I’ll play that instead of my main [Y] class so I don’t have to take time out of league to run a quick hotjoin

The first results in blowout games and the guy not finishing the daily anyway while (intentionally/willfully/knowingly) screwing over other people. The second doesn’t.

The difference?

The person at the keyboard. This is classic PEBCAK.

The main point is that these blowout games can be reduced in Ranked. Anet could easily make dailies the same structured for every class only you get the achievement just once.

roamzero.9486:

Josh Davis.6015:

We’ve been talking about personal score a bit. I’m personally of the opinion that it isn’t representative of a player’s effort in a given match, and it also can be incredibly misleading and potentially lead to bad gameplay habits (5-capping home).

If you were to redesign personal score, what would you do? Does it track different types of stats? Would you want your personal stats displayed to other players?

Just leave the personal point contribution with the stats viewable only to the player, but reorganize them to be a bit more prominent maybe (not hidden away in a tab)? Display to everyone things like “Most stomps”, “Most outgoing healing”, “Least deaths”, “Most damage taken” etc., and have an Overwatch-like MVP vote system.

The only voting system I want is a Dishonorable one for players who afk after the first mid wipe.

A vote feature for mvp wouldn’t do anything. I don’t even notice 1 or 2 players on my team if they’re constantly on the opposite end of the map.

Tally the entire team’s kill/death ratio in replace of a point system but don’t show any individual stats to players.

Acandis.3250:

However, I still think that’s a bad way to handle tie-breaker. I would rather force neut all points and play out til the next full-cap or stomp, whichever happens first.

I second this notion.

Josh Davis.6015:

If you were to redesign personal score, what would you do? Does it track different types of stats? Would you want your personal stats displayed to other players?

Definitely don’t want it displayed to other players for reasons you’ve stated.

I wouldn’t mind individual stats be replaced by a single number that represents, per team, the total # of deaths & kills tallied up from the 5 players. So that Team is emphasized rather than per player.

I want there to be an accurate system that measures individual skill but, no clue how to make that work successfuly.

I like to see how you change your utilities/trais vs certain comps.

Me personally, if it’s against 0 condi classes, I use Frags of Faith/ToF/Smite Condi and swap Virtues for Symbolic Honor. I swap out one of my damaging sigils for Sigil of Energy as it syncs well with the Endurance Regeneration trait in Honor.

If it’s vs condi Mes/War/Necro comps, I use Virtues and CoP utilities.

But ya I like to see how you swap traits vs the comp you’re against! Love to see commentary on that

Yasi.9065:

Saiyan.1704:

R O C.6574:

Obindo.6802:

R O C.6574:

When the other team’s lowest scoring player has more points then our top scoring player, and we still win the match XD

Then you donno how pvp works

??

It usually happens when we are outmatched in fights but we out-rotate the other team. FYI – you donno how spelling works. Save your hate for posts you actually understand. Are you saying that personal score DOES matter? Because my post is trying to communicate the opposite.

Personal score means zilch in this game… yet players use it as a reference for some reason. I wish it was removed entirely.

I wish it were fixed instead….

There’s no way to efficiently measure individual skill and this is Anet we’re talking about; even if they try working on the point system, it would be released in 1.5years.

R O C.6574:

Obindo.6802:

R O C.6574:

When the other team’s lowest scoring player has more points then our top scoring player, and we still win the match XD

Then you donno how pvp works

??

It usually happens when we are outmatched in fights but we out-rotate the other team. FYI – you donno how spelling works. Save your hate for posts you actually understand. Are you saying that personal score DOES matter? Because my post is trying to communicate the opposite.

Personal score means zilch in this game… yet players use it as a reference for some reason. I wish it was removed entirely.

Scraps don’t necessarily need a nerf or buff but their mechanics needs to revert back imo.

They converted their burst damages to attrition damages over time and called it a buff since it is a “5% dmg increase”. They did a similiar change to DH Longbow and nearly rendering the weapon useless because our bursts were removed.

Every class has that coordinated burst strike, I feel Engi lost his, tuning down his performance some but that’s just my 2cents. If a few people think he’s OP while others disagree, he’s probably near balanced.

Had 2 other DH on my team + war + necro
Had War, Ele, Thief, Necro, Ranger, on other team.

Holy kittenballs… the DH on my team died to Every… Single.. 1v1 fight in the match. I just can’t comprehend it…. they each had that crappy Dragon’s Maw elite and were incredibly glassy.. I just can’t even..

If matchmaking tries to match that 1 or 2 high mmr with 3 or 4 low mmr players.. then it’s a failed system. From what I’ve seen, Season 3 matchmaking was 10x better this ridiculousness.

DH is far from overpowered when you have them dying to Necros, Thieves, and Ele’s on point =/

I was gonna help you out until I read the rest. It’s alright to dislike PvP but don’t think for a minute you should be entitled to the Legendary PvP wings because PvP is something you don’t want to do.

I despise pve but I don’t run around asking for PvE gear because I hit Legendary in all 4 seasons so I suddenly deserve more. Doesn’t work that way.

This remind me of those Daily Achievement custom arenas where players trade wins to either complete their reward tracks or to grab their daily class achievement.

I see a lot of WvW guilds trying this and a few PvE players. It would be funny if this catches on where there’s other 5 man groups trying this strategy but breaking it due to this thread.

Kyon.9735:

R O C.6574:

Blame MetaBattle

It goes bothways. People have their own free will and most choose to lazily use metabattle and go the easy route. Metabattle caters to those lazy tards and IMO is bad for the game. But on the other hand, meta builds exist because of Anet’s incompetence in balancing professions.

But in my own honest opinion, metabattle should go. Let people start trying and discover their own builds. Some people even harrass others for not using metabuilds.

I’m sorry but I rather have a Metabattle type site for new players to have a start, than have them be on my team with some glass PvE rez-bot build. Sure bad players will be bad but at least they’ll be a bit more efficient on a good build.

The differences between every Esports player’s build in Leagues is off by maybe 1 trait, 1 utility or 1 rune. There are no secrets here… build diversity (finding that gem) is pretty much non-existent now.

Only way something like this would work is if there was a text in the middle of the players death screen that says,

“Revenent is weak against condi. We recommend to switch this one time.”

Why? Because even though it’s blatantly obvious that the War, Mesmer, and a Necro team composition are going to counter our Revs, people still don’t switch classes prior to match start.

Then you have the 1 hero players like myself. I’ve been playing Guard since launch and don’t care to learn another class. Unlike other games where classes are simplistic and easy to pick up, GW2 is not nearly as forgiving. So even if you have these in place there will still be a lot pf players not switching classes.

It’s why the game, like most MMORPG’s, are heavily reliant on matchmaking and class balances.

geekilo.8512:

Yup ^^
In Spvp, pre-hot people would come and actually stump the down target. Now, most people just use their AoE to attack the down target and any revivers.

Unless you’re a condi burst class like Reaper, cleaves are no longer as big of a necessity like it was pre-HoT. Partly due to all the invulnerables. It’s best to use 1 static aoe effect then try to immediately safe stomp.

The server lag mentioned in first post and downed bug is still really bad. Any chance these desync glitches (server lag) will be addressed?

Hanth.2978:

Guardians for the most part are just face rolling these divisions but in Diamond and Legendary they are being countered much more efficiently.

I concur. Faced off against 2 Revs and they utterly demolished me. Next game I had two Revs on my team… except the other team had Mes, Necro, and War. They obviously rendered our Revs useless lol.

Back to point, there’s indeed a skillcap balance issue here. DH are OP in Amber leagues but barely manageable in the upper mmr Leagues. This makes it more difficult for Devs to balance classes because we may indeed be balanced in Tournament play but you’ll never hear the end of rampant QQ threads.

lol

I absolutely despise PvE but if I want to permanently glide or a Legendary weapon, I have to work on it like everyone else. Want a PvP back piece? Work on it like the rest of us.

cyclop.5934:

I’ve made legendary previous seasons solo/dou que.This season I can’s get out of saphire with 50% win rate and about 80 games played. Its not saphire games I play its diamond/legendary previous seasons. And I have to w8 for these games twice as long as average que time.Have no idea what did you do with matchmaking. I am mad atm so kitten you Anet.

The rage is real.

Why do people continue to say “Season is worse than prev please fix” when there’s obviously less hate QQ threads in this season compared to previous?

DeWolfe.2174:

Umm.. folks, it should be obvious that this thread was nothing more than a straw man argument to induce hate for DH’s. Why even continue to discuss the topic when it’s been answered with links to Dev’s posts???

/thread

Yea truth. There’s no way to use macros efficiently on DH and those who do were never good in the first place.

Purification doesn’t need a shave. If you compare us to Revs & Druids that is. These three classes self heals are the same. If we get a toned down, they would need one too.

I said that there was very little buffs that we needed to be Meta. We got our F3 changes but I was very surprised with Symbols being inplemented (Thanks Anet!). It just increased our damages. I would tone them down by 5% or 7%.

Then you had nerfs to other classes. In relation to DH, it wasn’t needed. Thanks to Ele no longer being a threat, we haver fewer classes controling DH.

@OP
Mesmer’s moa can kill DH. Cast it when we’re at half health (this isually means we have little cds) and cc+burst us down.
Warriors can do the same. He needs to survive long enough until our Stunbreaks are wasted. If we’re at half health with no cds, he can condi bomb us.
Revs & Rangers counter us. I’m not even going to go there.
Necros have 1 build that may or may not be viable in spvp but they can beat us. Still, DH should never lose to a Necro.

If you can’t find a single class (2 can successfully kitten DH) then i’m sorry… but you and your friends aren’t there, skill wise.

Sismis.5390:

Sry lang barrier,was alredy knowing he had 2 traps.During middle of the match game did desync and when he used symbol of blades then 2 traps i dodged the dragon maw and fragments.And then he sudden spammed again fragments of fait and dragonmaw again causing a 5 times animations where i dodged out 3 i got hit by 2 of them.

Oh I see. Only thing i’ve seen are preplaced traps but i’ve never seen what you’re describing. Hopefully it was just some weird desync glitch.

Then you have overlapping roles like Rev & Thief. Thief has more decap abilities and arguably better +1 bursts but can’t stay on point indefinitely like a Rev.

Revs +1 bursts are arguably on point just like the Thief but are not as mobile. Yet they can stay on point longer with limited risks involved vs a Thief who could get countered if he’s not careful.

I’ve seen an Ele pick up downs faster than Engi on point but Engi definitely has better utilities in a team fight. At best, Ele has better focus damage burst but Engi is a better bruiser.

It’s calculated risks. Ele & Thief is simply more difficult to make work compared to having a Rev, Ranger, and Engi.

Sismis.5390:

Pesonal out of all games i played only 1 time guard enemy had 2 traps and when he attacked me 5 traps under me in time period of 6 seconds..That i was wondering how is that possible.

I’m trying to understand your question. Is it, you knew he only used 2 traps while hitting you with 5 or is it, you are wondering how he laid 5 traps in 6 seconds?

Sarrs.4831:

I am inclined to agree with Helseth especially when he speaks about there being what seems to be a massive divide between the ‘casual’ playerbase and the tournament level players. Legendary division does not mean much, Legendary backpiece means nothing.

I don’t know how I would go about fixing this but I think a major redesign for how you obtain the Legendary backpiece so they can make divisions matter is something that’s definitely on the cards. There’s talk of the Starcraft system on this thread and Helseth spoke about the Hearthstone system and I think they’re definitely worth comparing to the standing Division model.

Anet would need to successfuly fix mmr so that each match would be static instead of these set of extremes matchmaking set-up. Four of the same class on 1 team is not going to cut it. At matchmaking’s current itteration, it’s impossible to implement a system that would successfuly measure individual skill.

StickerHappy.8052:

Saiyan.1704:

sinject.4607:

1. DH’s healing is unarguably broken. I don’t care where it happens, but you can expect it to be cut. Purification is not balanced, especially in Conquest, and if the entirety of your profession’s ESL viability relies on the most overrewarding heal in the game, it speaks volumes about just how badly this skill is carrying the profession.
2. In conjunction with the sheer multitude of mitigation through other DH mechanics, Aegis is unfairly filling what little vulnerability windows DH actually has. One aegis will easily linger while the DH chains other blocks (Shield of Courage, weapon blocks, Renewed Focus, blinds) to the point where Aegis can pop back to back. taking the extra second or two to further deal with this against a DH is huge when you’re getting hit every second for 1/5th of your health when trying to melee them. this problem is also related to DH healing because if you guys didn’t get to full heal as ridiculously often we wouldnt need as many windows of vulnerability.
3. …I said 10-15% overall nerf. learn to do basic math: 5-7.5% nerf on both S/F and Sc/Sh = 10-15%.
4. the only professions that don’t outright lose/stalemate to DH are Druid and Beserker running RR. using other overpowered professions as justification for where yours is at as never worked well as an argument: two wrongs dont make a right.

Using the word “overall” is broad so no need to make it sound like i’m complacent when you weren’t clear.

Aegis is a block that gets removed first before Focus#5, F3, etc. You can test it yourself. Just like the blind condition, you have to be aware whether or not Aegis is on the DH before delivering a heavy hitter.

Taking other classes into account when doing nerfs is called balancing. Rev & Druids are direct counters 1v1. Nerfing us without touching them means we’ll be ever more useless vs them in team fights (we currently have a slight advantage) and hilariously underpowered in 1v1 side points vs them.
Engi/War/Necro (the good ones) are darn close to beating DH successfully 1v1. Not to mention Mesmer’s properly timed Moa will annihilate us.

You’re not realizing how much you’re nerfing DH by removing Purification because that’s exactly what you’re doing.

Druid a Direct counter? What?

Are you telling me that A Druid with 0 toughness with Mender’s Amulet is able to kill you? On a point?

Wow.

Every Guard main knows Druids > DH. They don’t even need to go full cheese mode to do it. If you prefer, I can set up a duel if you want to mettle with a good Ranger.

The ones I know aren’t Amber league mmr.

sinject.4607:

1. DH’s healing is unarguably broken. I don’t care where it happens, but you can expect it to be cut. Purification is not balanced, especially in Conquest, and if the entirety of your profession’s ESL viability relies on the most overrewarding heal in the game, it speaks volumes about just how badly this skill is carrying the profession.
2. In conjunction with the sheer multitude of mitigation through other DH mechanics, Aegis is unfairly filling what little vulnerability windows DH actually has. One aegis will easily linger while the DH chains other blocks (Shield of Courage, weapon blocks, Renewed Focus, blinds) to the point where Aegis can pop back to back. taking the extra second or two to further deal with this against a DH is huge when you’re getting hit every second for 1/5th of your health when trying to melee them. this problem is also related to DH healing because if you guys didn’t get to full heal as ridiculously often we wouldnt need as many windows of vulnerability.
3. …I said 10-15% overall nerf. learn to do basic math: 5-7.5% nerf on both S/F and Sc/Sh = 10-15%.
4. the only professions that don’t outright lose/stalemate to DH are Druid and Beserker running RR. using other overpowered professions as justification for where yours is at as never worked well as an argument: two wrongs dont make a right.

Using the word “overall” is broad so no need to make it sound like i’m complacent when you weren’t clear.

Aegis is a block that gets removed first before Focus#5, F3, etc. You can test it yourself. Just like the blind condition, you have to be aware whether or not Aegis is on the DH before delivering a heavy hitter.

Taking other classes into account when doing nerfs is called balancing. Rev & Druids are direct counters 1v1. Nerfing us without touching them means we’ll be ever more useless vs them in team fights (we currently have a slight advantage) and hilariously underpowered in 1v1 side points vs them.
Engi/War/Necro (the good ones) are darn close to beating DH successfully 1v1. Not to mention Mesmer’s properly timed Moa will annihilate us.

You’re not realizing how much you’re nerfing DH by removing Purification because that’s exactly what you’re doing.

Symbolic DH are incredibly succeptible to cc as they don’t have F3 stunbreaks (it’s why we needed the F3 changes). Once they waste their ToF in a given skirmish fight, cc burst him. With two Rangers and a lock down power thief.

Heck… Druids counter DH so other than being with low mmr players, yall shouldn’t have had any issues.

Loathar.9375:

Anet didnt solve them in four years, they are not gonna solve them magically next big patch.

Anet, this is when you say “Challenge accepted”.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Dodge bots are the 2nd most widely used cheat in the game, right under speed hacking. Don’t be so quaint as to act like these things don’t exist.

A quick Google search can show you otherwise.

Dodge can cancel a skill that may have been life saving. Likewise, there’s no reason to automatically dodge a skill that would otherwise be blocked or blinded.

Unless i’m missing something here, a good player would never use such a program.