I think having 90 sec elite that can be canceled easly by the easy applying blind ruins the whole point of it. At least give us the stab upon finishing the animation.There is no logic that an attack that is not require aiming and the point of that attack is to strike any of the sorroundings enemies regardless where they at would be avoided by simply apply blind.
I know that if you gonna make that skill blind immune there are similar skills that should have blinb immune, like warrior gs burst skill but it is not an elite with 90s cd. I thnik you should make an exception for elites since the long cd they have.
Stop complaing. You know how hard it is to land Impact Stike of my Thief because of all the stab being thrown around? If you want your skill to be immune to blind then have Anet make Impact Strike a guaranteed daze.
As thief main, I know.
though this skill is 40 sec cd more than a half cd than CTTB
So if they don’t Blind you, don’t use the blind clear! It really is that easy.
You dont know if they will blind you in the last sec so your only option is to use somthing else in the last second too to secure it
you see when the animation is when you see the hands of the character up that is when ppl blind they know and when the hand is up the skill is about 0.0001 sec to finish it jsut that easy to blind the hands raised is like saying “here blind me now”
you cant avoid the blind unless you prematurely use another shout and that is guessing.
All self-targeted aoes should be immune to blind. The stronger ones (with or without enemy components) still have a cast time which makes them vulnerable to interrupts. There’s your counter-play. Ranged aoe’s I can let slide.
Missing a cast centered on yourself makes little sense. Blinding a guardian doesn’t make his Retreat! go on cooldown with no swiftness to himself. There’s a double standard here if you can’t even receive the boons.
It is no double standard, these 2 shouts just work differently. “Retreat!” gives aegis and swiftness to allies in range. CTTB is a damaging shout, which also stuns and chills and will give stability for each enemy hit by it. If you get blinded, you didn’t hit anyone and so you get stability * 0 = 0
They are just different. You can’t blind a druids heal, because this is an effect for his allies. CTTB is no effect for allies, it is an offensive effect.
Only necros got offensive shouts…
“On my Mark” warrior shout still hit when you are blinded…. so tell me why not CTTB stab on use? I understand the dmg portion of it but the stab should be there. And the chill for that matter.
“Feel the Burn,” “Flash Freeze,” and “Aftershock” would all like to have a word with you.
The fact is, yes, Blind is counterplay to Chilled to the Bone. But you also have options to counterplay that counterplay. It’s hardly wasting a skill if it ensures your Elite lands.
Yeah totally forgot about tempests shouts.but none high risk for blind or long cd.
You just using 2 skills for one. I’d say that somthing wrong.and even if you use it nothing would say it will not be up again since it is somtimes spammable.
If you don’t want to do anything to make sure your elite skill lands and expect it to land anyway, that is completely on you. Elite skills are powerful, but none can be used without thought and be effective. You have four skill options to clear Blind mid-cast on CttB (Rise, Suffer, You are All Weaklings, Plague Signet). They can each be used at the very end of the cast time to clear Blind off and ensure it doesn’t spoil your elite. Locust Swarm is a strong option to clear Blind as well, albeit less precise. Most pulsing Blinds in PvP are 1 Blind/2 seconds (Black Powder and Nightfall), which means Locust Swarm is usually more than enough to clear Blind.
Chilled to the Bone needs no changes in relation to Blind. Your own play does.
Not only this ^^, but, from everything else above, it sounds like you (OP) are mostly trying to use CttB as a def3nsive skill in a team fight. That is not really where it excels in these ‘high tier’ teamfights you’re referring. It is, however, absolutely excellent at turning the tides in a teamfight with any kind of communication ‘leet play’, for a total lack of better words. These "blinds at the ‘last second’ (still time to clear) aren’t a top tier tactic for canceling long cast skills. Granted a pro with great cooldown/initiative management (yeah right, we know it’s not Thieves right now :/) could render this skill useless every time, I’m more prone to think it’s your unwillingness to burn Plague Signet to make sure CttB lands. The funny thing is, it’s not even about the transfer. It’s more about picking up random conditions (with a random clear mostly) from up to 1200 units. Yes this burns one of your stunbreak which are so important to a Necro, but it also increases your chance of landing CttB (depending on the enemy comp) multiple times over. Can ANYONE in the Meta claim they’d prefer not to clear a couple condis themselves vs. a 2 sec AoE stun/chil/vuln+dodge/stunbreak burn? I think you’re underestimating how strong this skill can be in a teamfight. In fact, sometimes, in a teamfight where the outcome is dire, I’ll prefer to burn Plague and Locust b/c of how strong it can be. Team rezzes’? Sorry bro…etc.
I do feel it is like burning other utilities, especially when plague signet is my top condi cleanse. I mean I understand how OP it can if it will be completly immune to blind. What im asking is at least give us somthing for using this skill, like chill to enemies or stab to us.
After disucssing with you guys, I really appreciate your replys and I changed OP to at least give us the stab and enemy chill upon finishing the animation. seems fair to me.
All self-targeted aoes should be immune to blind. The stronger ones (with or without enemy components) still have a cast time which makes them vulnerable to interrupts. There’s your counter-play. Ranged aoe’s I can let slide.
Missing a cast centered on yourself makes little sense. Blinding a guardian doesn’t make his Retreat! go on cooldown with no swiftness to himself. There’s a double standard here if you can’t even receive the boons.
It is no double standard, these 2 shouts just work differently. “Retreat!” gives aegis and swiftness to allies in range. CTTB is a damaging shout, which also stuns and chills and will give stability for each enemy hit by it. If you get blinded, you didn’t hit anyone and so you get stability * 0 = 0
They are just different. You can’t blind a druids heal, because this is an effect for his allies. CTTB is no effect for allies, it is an offensive effect.
Only necros got offensive shouts…
“On my Mark” warrior shout still hit when you are blinded…. so tell me why not CTTB stab on use? I understand the dmg portion of it but the stab should be there. And the chill for that matter.
“Feel the Burn,” “Flash Freeze,” and “Aftershock” would all like to have a word with you.
The fact is, yes, Blind is counterplay to Chilled to the Bone. But you also have options to counterplay that counterplay. It’s hardly wasting a skill if it ensures your Elite lands.
Yeah totally forgot about tempests shouts.but none high risk for blind or long cd.
You just using 2 skills for one. I’d say that somthing wrong.and even if you use it nothing would say it will not be up again since it is somtimes spammable.
If you don’t want to do anything to make sure your elite skill lands and expect it to land anyway, that is completely on you. Elite skills are powerful, but none can be used without thought and be effective. You have four skill options to clear Blind mid-cast on CttB (Rise, Suffer, You are All Weaklings, Plague Signet). They can each be used at the very end of the cast time to clear Blind off and ensure it doesn’t spoil your elite. Locust Swarm is a strong option to clear Blind as well, albeit less precise. Most pulsing Blinds in PvP are 1 Blind/2 seconds (Black Powder and Nightfall), which means Locust Swarm is usually more than enough to clear Blind.
Chilled to the Bone needs no changes in relation to Blind. Your own play does.
CTTB is already hard to land skill even without blind since the obvious animation and cast-time. What you suggested already been tested and tried, yet you never excpect blind so what you gonna do? everytime you fight blind-able class you use the elite with one of the other shouts as follows? what if the guy wont blind you and will just dodge or evade or block or run away from the range of the skill? you can never know what will do in that milisecond you use that skill. so it is either you wasted utility skill or you used two skills to ensure it hits. Either way I think it is too much effort for one skill. Dont get me wrong, I outplay players with it and my play with it is very good hence why im using it, but there is a difference in fighting sheep and fighting wolves, and wolves know your class, know your skills, know what to do and it is natural, but for a 90 sec elite skill to do nothing while warrior shout that even in its title it says on MY MARK and with blind it still hits, you wonder why ppl dont get at least the chill from the skill or we dont get stab.
cast time is 1,5 sec and You can cancel it even at the last milliseconds, You need to have quick reaction and that’s why I wrote it works in 90%.
See how ridiculous is Your request “immune to blind” yeah like that even would happen. Beside that lots of skills can be blinded that is why You need to secure Your cast, You can use warhorn 5 to get rid off blind before casting CttB, LoS since the this elite don’t need it to hit target, use plaque signet while casting CttB
Peace
more like work 10% of the time really maybe try using this skill on high level pvp? you’d think it is easy to land(judging by your very tested and reserched 90% working chance) but as time pass by ppl get to know this skill and know how to react to it it may be powerfull at start but now every player knows that blind wis the key against it and just use it right when you attack you have no chance to cancel it cuz by the time you see blind status you already using the skill mate.
Omg mate You rly have some issues, I’m gonna end my conversation here since You won’t take any advice and I don’t know if You are just trolling or something…
Wait..was there any advice? :O
Why you ignoring this? it is a valid conversation and I was looking for reply from you(well knowledgable reply and not hate one but ok)
I will offer to trade rebound for the chilled to the bone, any takers?
Only if you trade earth armor with signet of undeath
Why trade one of the best utilities on ele for one of the worst on necro? Of course that isn’t a fair trade how about plauge signet for cleansing fire two of the best utilities for each.
cast time is 1,5 sec and You can cancel it even at the last milliseconds, You need to have quick reaction and that’s why I wrote it works in 90%.
See how ridiculous is Your request “immune to blind” yeah like that even would happen. Beside that lots of skills can be blinded that is why You need to secure Your cast, You can use warhorn 5 to get rid off blind before casting CttB, LoS since the this elite don’t need it to hit target, use plaque signet while casting CttB
Peace
more like work 10% of the time really maybe try using this skill on high level pvp? you’d think it is easy to land(judging by your very tested and reserched 90% working chance) but as time pass by ppl get to know this skill and know how to react to it it may be powerfull at start but now every player knows that blind wis the key against it and just use it right when you attack you have no chance to cancel it cuz by the time you see blind status you already using the skill mate.
It’s a l2p issue from Your side. Just learn to stow Your weapon and You are good in 90% of situation.
Again. stowing weapon can do much when blind can be applied in the last sec. it works well when baiting dodges/blocks but not easy access blind im afraid.
All self-targeted aoes should be immune to blind. The stronger ones (with or without enemy components) still have a cast time which makes them vulnerable to interrupts. There’s your counter-play. Ranged aoe’s I can let slide.
Missing a cast centered on yourself makes little sense. Blinding a guardian doesn’t make his Retreat! go on cooldown with no swiftness to himself. There’s a double standard here if you can’t even receive the boons.
It is no double standard, these 2 shouts just work differently. “Retreat!” gives aegis and swiftness to allies in range. CTTB is a damaging shout, which also stuns and chills and will give stability for each enemy hit by it. If you get blinded, you didn’t hit anyone and so you get stability * 0 = 0
They are just different. You can’t blind a druids heal, because this is an effect for his allies. CTTB is no effect for allies, it is an offensive effect.
Only necros got offensive shouts…
“On my Mark” warrior shout still hit when you are blinded…. so tell me why not CTTB stab on use? I understand the dmg portion of it but the stab should be there. And the chill for that matter.
“Feel the Burn,” “Flash Freeze,” and “Aftershock” would all like to have a word with you.
The fact is, yes, Blind is counterplay to Chilled to the Bone. But you also have options to counterplay that counterplay. It’s hardly wasting a skill if it ensures your Elite lands.
Yeah totally forgot about tempests shouts.but none high risk for blind or long cd.
You just using 2 skills for one. I’d say that somthing wrong.and even if you use it nothing would say it will not be up again since it is somtimes spammable.
All self-targeted aoes should be immune to blind. The stronger ones (with or without enemy components) still have a cast time which makes them vulnerable to interrupts. There’s your counter-play. Ranged aoe’s I can let slide.
Missing a cast centered on yourself makes little sense. Blinding a guardian doesn’t make his Retreat! go on cooldown with no swiftness to himself. There’s a double standard here if you can’t even receive the boons.
It is no double standard, these 2 shouts just work differently. “Retreat!” gives aegis and swiftness to allies in range. CTTB is a damaging shout, which also stuns and chills and will give stability for each enemy hit by it. If you get blinded, you didn’t hit anyone and so you get stability * 0 = 0
They are just different. You can’t blind a druids heal, because this is an effect for his allies. CTTB is no effect for allies, it is an offensive effect.
Only necros got offensive shouts…
“On my Mark” warrior shout still hit when you are blinded…. so tell me why not CTTB stab on use? I understand the dmg portion of it but the stab should be there. And the chill for that matter.
I think blinding on a self targeted aoe is unrealistic. Its like putting a blindfold on a suicide bomber and expecting to live while standing 3 feet away. Blind should target drop the same as stealth and blackout the screen, allowing for wild casts that could still hit or miss completely.
It is unrealistic, that enemies are able to dodge and blind my engineers bomb explosion. That doesn’t mean bomb kit should get undodgeable or immune to blind.
Blind on CTTB is fine, it is a really strong skill and you just have to pay attention if you are using it (like many others already said).
Well, realistic thing aside, bomb kit is spammable and not an elite and blind wont affect it as much. The realistic argument is just another thing but the main issue is that you have an elite that in high play is not worth having.
It’s easy land it just requires positioning.
L2p issue
easy to land is a matter of the question since it depends on many factors such as the ability to do it without problmes and every thing that can counters it make it alot and alot harder so “easy to land” refer to skills such as insta-unblockable skills while it get harder and harder the more thing that can counter the skills. for example adding cast time, make it blockable, evadable, interruptable and how it is affected by blind . and then comes the range factors,and AoE capablities, so easy to land its not. Learn to play issue is not even related to this topic since it is not about landing it, it is about how easy it can be avoided regardless what you do.
Comments like “press the keyboard faster”, “use the mouse”, “open the eyes”, “use positioning” does not matter the entire skill depends how ther other guy react since one blind is enough to cancel it ENTIRELY.
I think blinding on a self targeted aoe is unrealistic. Its like putting a blindfold on a suicide bomber and expecting to live while standing 3 feet away. Blind should target drop the same as stealth and blackout the screen, allowing for wild casts that could still hit or miss completely.
lol that would be cool if the screen get blackout haha . but my point
Trust me, this guy is absolutely ridiculous. I had tried to be serious but I stopped after watching for 2 minutes and here are why:
- He said he spent 2-3 years for “research”. Oh boy if only I can chat with him about that term to see how did he come up with a “research”.
- “My brain and my actual mouse are one” – In a way he is moving the mouse with his hand that touch the forehead skin. Thus definitely not a telepathic or biological connection that is being talked about. It does not make the action faster :/
- What he said are bland and outrageous claim. He has absolutely no validity in his so-called “research” since it is one-sided with a tiny sample size of button-spamming match.
All and all his point is that he can spam skill faster with his forehead skin. Save yourself 19 minutes of your life and move along this topic!
Just tried it with my keyboard. it works the same!
HoT elite specs with CC as an elite:
Mesmer
Thief
Necro
Warrior
Guardian
The game is already experiencing an overabundance of CC and power creep. And you want to make it worse by making CTTB require zero thought to use?
Mesmer-> one blind wont effect the skill.
thief->low cd elite.
Warrior->low cd elite.
Guardian->one blind wont effect the skill.
engineer supply crate->blind wont effect the skill much
necro flash golem-> if you be able to blind him fine – he still there to hurt you.
necro lich->ppl dont choose this skill for its CC.
some skills like moa morph or CTTB should be granted blind immunity imo or at least an effect that gives somthing upon casting….and CTTB still very obvious to dodge/block/evade/just walking a bit away so it is still need thought to use it. Blind imo is overkill. Again not saying this skill is not strong though blind make it a bit less so and with no logic behind it since this skill animation,description and intend, is no aim just freeze anyone blindly in the sorroundings.
None of the meta builds use that trait. Actually for the past 2 or more years I can’t think of a single build that used that trait in pvp. The general consensus is that it isn’t a very good trait. Largely because it should give swiftness, and soul marks is better. You shouldn’t need that trait for survival as long as you position yourself well, and dodge properly.
Ah yes..the cancer that is “meta builds”. Here is the thing about meta builds, meta builds are builds tagged meta by players who decide which build needs the least amount of work. They are not the be all end all builds that a lot of people seem to look up to. Anyone can be very effective with any build they have put thought and practice into.
Unfortunately i cant defend speed of shadows so much anymore now that it only drops the CD by 3 seconds, but since i don’t use staff and have no plans of ever using staff with a power build (and i have been more than fine without it) soul marks is useless to me.
You should know that from my perspective as a thief/revenant i find a power necro using staff to be a huge relief because i know once i avoid the number 4 and 5 the necro is basically a sitting duck unless shroud is used, which is even better because according to your build it is on a 10 sec cd . I actually find axe to be more dangerous than staff when combined with other skills.
You talk about evading and positioning, this is what Nemesis said about that and there is no better way to put it, “Its like me giving you a bicycle for a motorcycle race and saying you just have to peddle faster”
I dropped staff since reaper is out. much better. Only thing missing is the condi transfer.
or i can use “suffer” to clean 5 stacks of confusion…..using “suffer” is not a solution.
False, it is just a solution you don’t like. You could also use plague signet, weapon cancel when you get blinded, or use a shout with soldier runes equipped. You probably won’t like those either.
This skill is already very obvious to dodge/inturrpt and it s got long cd so yeah blinding it easly is way way overkill to a skill that already is so obvious to dodge.
Oh noes, you have to use it intelligently instead of spamming it when you want. I’m so sorry, why don’t we just give you an I win button.
That skills is not that strong. with simple stun break you can avoid it and it is elite.
Again, the skill should have counterplay. A simple stun break means that the person you are fighting is out a stunbreak, is still chilled, meanwhile you have stab.
No way in hell is a 2 second stun that applies a long chill, and grants stab in a massive aoe is weak.
Oh I know how to use it and I didnt said it is weak hence why it is elite, but the fact that applying blind as counterplay to it is so easy more than intrupt and with no logic with the way the skill is/work.
I didnt complained about the stunbreak, It should be counterplayed and stunbreak should counter it.I just question the need for the extra counterplay in the form of blind and blind alone.
I am using it myself infact been using it since the first time it was playable, It just feels off when inteligent mesmer,thief,engi,guard,ele sees you do it they apply blind in the last second which you cant cancel and you feel like a fool.
ofc I dont like those options, for a mere elite I wont change my whole build and furthmore, wasting skills for it. There is no point in wasting suffer or plague signet for blind alone more so when blind is pratcially spammable and the above not so.
And seriously learn to comment, no need for childish internet hate/sarcasm.
It’s a skill that can single-handedly turn a fight around. Given you can’t LoS it or stealth away, blinding is fair. Remember, you do have the option of using something like “Suffer!” mid-cast to clear Blind.
or i can use “suffer” to clean 5 stacks of confusion…..using “suffer” is not a solution.
This skill is already very obvious to dodge/inturrpt and it s got long cd so yeah blinding it easly is way way overkill to a skill that already is so obvious to dodge.
That skills is not that strong. with simple stun break you can avoid it and it is elite.
I think having 90 sec elite that can be canceled easly by the easy applying blind ruins the whole point of it. At least give us the stab and enemies the chill upon finishing the animation.There is no logic that an attack that is not require aiming and the point of that attack is to strike any of the sorroundings enemies regardless where they at would be avoided by simply apply blind.
I know that if you gonna make that skill blind immune there are similar skills that should have blinb immune, like warrior gs burst skill but it is not an elite with 90s cd. I thnik you should make an exception for elites since the long cd they have.
http://www.twitch.tv/emil8006/v/36757981
at 0:36 also at 5:30 you can clearly see somthing wrong with the textures it is very random whever i go in the map.I had these problems before but somehow it got fixed on his own.
Dagger AA is getting buffed by 30%. Sword AA will get a speed increase (30%) being stronger than rev sword AA now and acrobatics is getting some sustain improvements. Withdraw is getting the 10% heal buff that it was supposed to have.
Better than Rev sword autoattack? What are you smoking..?
Not complaining, I love the sword buffs but Rev sword auto will still be better.
Champion shadow my kitten. I got that title by playing p/p in unranked and nuking ppl down. That doesnt make me good by any means, even more by that fact that i have no idea how to play thief outside of cheese d/p cus its faceroll and in fact anyone can play it… I got one friend playing s/d dd you might want to duel if youre on eu with the condi rev.
Removing cripple/chill/immo on dodge already leaves space to remove some damaging condition for resolution. So does inf strike but in case of d/p theres another trait to remove condi in stealth..
And who plays power reaper nowdays? Like really..show me any serious reaper playing power. All reapers are condi. Power reaper is not even a thing to consider cus anything will run over it.
Condi rev has no coverage. All you apply is torment, confusion, burn, some chill here and there and thats about it. Thief wont have any issues getting rid of it just by evading and hitting like a truck back.
hahaha my friend. You should check my vide channel and twitch then
Champ shadow means they know a thing or 2 about thief.
So i know a thing or 2 about thief? Well always something! Legendary champions knows their kitten too, like turning around with keyboard or clicking skills. As for the vids ill pass..
Yes. You know. Congrats.
Legendary champion is nothing and unless you got carried by 4 ppl all your wins you should know thing or 2 about thief mechanic.
My point is that im power reaper and have videos and stream records to prove how I own ppl with it. Dont know why you so sarcastic and sell yourself short but ok…
Champion shadow my kitten. I got that title by playing p/p in unranked and nuking ppl down. That doesnt make me good by any means, even more by that fact that i have no idea how to play thief outside of cheese d/p cus its faceroll and in fact anyone can play it… I got one friend playing s/d dd you might want to duel if youre on eu with the condi rev.
Removing cripple/chill/immo on dodge already leaves space to remove some damaging condition for resolution. So does inf strike but in case of d/p theres another trait to remove condi in stealth..
And who plays power reaper nowdays? Like really..show me any serious reaper playing power. All reapers are condi. Power reaper is not even a thing to consider cus anything will run over it.
Condi rev has no coverage. All you apply is torment, confusion, burn, some chill here and there and thats about it. Thief wont have any issues getting rid of it just by evading and hitting like a truck back.
hahaha my friend. You should check my vide channel and twitch then
Champ shadow means they know a thing or 2 about thief.
Would you mind sharing how you figured out this particular order?
Just in case you didn’t know, this is from the June 23, 2015 patch:
Boon to condition conversion and condition to boon conversion has been standardized and is functionality changed. Skills that convert boons and conditions now randomly select from all boons and conditions on the target.
ah good I thought somthing is wrong. IT was like that before this patch just thought is one of thier kitten bugs
Yep, thats why people consider thief to be hard counter to reaper. Due to being weak to condi /shrug
As for escapes thief can just pop invis, shadowstep away and be far far away while you still wondering where he is. Revenant is visible where he goes and outside of riposting shadows we dont really have any real escapes. If someone decide to get you, he will. So much facepalm here. Go 1v1 a decent daredevil with condi rev and tell me how well you did really.
You know that by hard counter to reaper, they mean hard counter to POWER reaper?
and you gave me bunch of unrelated condi cleanse. first one is not even condi cleanse.No matter 10% duration is reduced. Second oen is sword skill unrelated to thieves in general.third one is the only viable condi cleanse on long cd that ALL thieves have.
4th is belong to Daredevils which is very good condi cleanse but not that good vs condi spammers. And condi rev would destroy thief with this. Already did with mace/axe demon/jalis taunt torment build they just eat 10-15 stacks of torment constantly they cant move. I dueled champ shadows with this build playing revenant in general for 3 hours. also tried herald/demon but it is no good against other condi spammers.
As former dafiance stance user i can fully say it is because of the cast time but more because it is the only heal warrior have.Glint would not share same fate since you still have other heals to count on and lots of evades and blocks.
>i can fully say it is because of the cast time
Ok, so you agree.
>more because it is the only heal
So are you fully saying it’s because of the cast time or not having a second heal?
Regardless, I don’t think anyone considers Shiro’s heal as a real one (Empowering Misery is the only other decent heal and it’s still just a worse Consume Conditions) and Shield only goes so far.
Warrior can also have some evades and Blocks (along with Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, etc.) although the Warrior Shield is lacking a tad, but they can make up for it by not being completely annihilated by a few conditions.
I really do think the cast time will kill this heal outside of stupid crap that will happen regardless, like walking into AoEs (now it’s main purpose, in fact). So now Revenant wont have a great answer when CC-chained or bursted other than dropping a ton of energy on Riposting Shadows, using Gaze of Darkness or forcing themselves into Invocation and then forcing a Legend swap.
I am saying it is from both, but what really killed it that it is the only heal they have/depend on. Shiro’s heal is much better than no heal, and inferior consume conditions is better than have no heal at all again. And as for the CC chained, other proffesions have less answer to that, revenant is considered less troubled by it unlike thief, mesmer or necro.
Thieves (at least when I played a lot of Thief) ran 2x Stun Breaks and have a TON of mobility and escapes (something Revenant lacks). If they’re caught, they’re in trouble, but they have a lot of tools to prevent that from ever happening.
Necros have a harder time, but Reaper does bring them Stability in both Reaper Shroud and Chilled to the Bone. WurmWalk is also not bad for setting up escapes or pulling off risky moves. They’re also have a lot more options against Conditions, although more prone to dying to focus fire.
Mesmers have Stability, Evades, Blocks, Blinks, Distortions, decent Condi cleanses, and escapes (again, something Revenants lack) and while they might have trouble in the next meta, that might be more due to the recent nerfs and Thief buffs more than being weak to focus fire.
Im sorry you were talking about chained CC, and you are taking very specified builds and utilities to counter my argument, you can say that on rev with stab on dodge and just using shiro with energy sigils=perma evade basically. My main is thief and I use one stun break which is normal to thieves and when I play mesmer i have my distortion and my 2xblink using staff and gs. and my 2nd most played class necro it is a bit easier on reaper although the stab gain is very slow and usually fast CC stop it or using the stab in mid of cc bomb wouldnt help(if you even able to press the skill due it have cast time).
We werent talking on prevent, we were talking about when you get chained CC.
I didn’t really mention anything specific to any build except maybe Condi Cleanses on Mesmer. A Condi or Power Necro can both take WurmWalk, for example.
Whatever, point is, they all have escapes DURING CC-chains (utilities that get them OUT of the situation or help them survive through it) and the tools to prevent them entirely and the option to pick however many they want.
Revenant pretty much only has Riposting Shadows, Gaze of Darkness and the old Infuse Light to get out of a deadly CC-spam. Just a few days ago, the only reason I survived a CC-chain + burst was because of Infuse Light. I didn’t have 30 energy for Riposting Shadows and Gaze of Darkness didn’t help at all (I was instantly stunned again). They didn’t even fully heal me, but it was enough to get them to back off for a second and let me do something.
So all this means is that by having this heal nerfed like this with no compensation, we’re even more vulnerable to CC-chains/bursts than before (not good when Thief is picking up) and situations like this, where you can just get caught, you have no option but to die.
Yes, other classes suffer from focus fire, but again, they also have escape tools while being stunned, aren’t as ridiculously weak to Conditions, and have far more options.
Oh, and the only way to get any decent amount of Stability on Revenant is with Retribution + Herald (and I don’t really think any class should have perma/near-perma Stab, but they should just distribute the Stab into our utilities). That’s pretty limiting.
Well thief have trouble with condies, mesmer too(only if you specced him hard on cleansing like you can with rev going to demon legend).
Revenant Shiro’s skills have more escape than thief so you know.Given thief using 2 stun break and rev can(assuming the rev will have more than 50% energy which most of the times happens you will have minimum 3 stun breaks and if you have stun break on changing legend 4 stun breaks and maybe 5. potencially.Now it is true that energy wouldnt be 50% or above in some cases, but that is the player fault, like thief wouldnt have those 2 stun breaks on all the time. I can even make you a vid of me and my buddy whihc plays herald duel, me on my reaper, and you will see the perma evade perma stun break with sigil of energy synergy.
Unholy feast is a good skill with blighters boon and todays meta.
That skill priority is swiftness THAN stability so if target have stability and no swiftness, that skill would turn the stab into fear. and adding reta thus adding life force cause of blighters boon + the extra cripple is always nice.
As former dafiance stance user i can fully say it is because of the cast time but more because it is the only heal warrior have.Glint would not share same fate since you still have other heals to count on and lots of evades and blocks.
>i can fully say it is because of the cast time
Ok, so you agree.
>more because it is the only heal
So are you fully saying it’s because of the cast time or not having a second heal?
Regardless, I don’t think anyone considers Shiro’s heal as a real one (Empowering Misery is the only other decent heal and it’s still just a worse Consume Conditions) and Shield only goes so far.
Warrior can also have some evades and Blocks (along with Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, etc.) although the Warrior Shield is lacking a tad, but they can make up for it by not being completely annihilated by a few conditions.
I really do think the cast time will kill this heal outside of stupid crap that will happen regardless, like walking into AoEs (now it’s main purpose, in fact). So now Revenant wont have a great answer when CC-chained or bursted other than dropping a ton of energy on Riposting Shadows, using Gaze of Darkness or forcing themselves into Invocation and then forcing a Legend swap.
I am saying it is from both, but what really killed it that it is the only heal they have/depend on. Shiro’s heal is much better than no heal, and inferior consume conditions is better than have no heal at all again. And as for the CC chained, other proffesions have less answer to that, revenant is considered less troubled by it unlike thief, mesmer or necro.
Thieves (at least when I played a lot of Thief) ran 2x Stun Breaks and have a TON of mobility and escapes (something Revenant lacks). If they’re caught, they’re in trouble, but they have a lot of tools to prevent that from ever happening.
Necros have a harder time, but Reaper does bring them Stability in both Reaper Shroud and Chilled to the Bone. WurmWalk is also not bad for setting up escapes or pulling off risky moves. They’re also have a lot more options against Conditions, although more prone to dying to focus fire.
Mesmers have Stability, Evades, Blocks, Blinks, Distortions, decent Condi cleanses, and escapes (again, something Revenants lack) and while they might have trouble in the next meta, that might be more due to the recent nerfs and Thief buffs more than being weak to focus fire.
Im sorry you were talking about chained CC, and you are taking very specified builds and utilities to counter my argument, you can say that on rev with stab on dodge and just using shiro with energy sigils=perma evade basically and using legend change=stun break and using jalis for the extra stab . My main is thief and I use one stun break which is normal to thieves and when I play mesmer i have my distortion and my 2xblink using staff and gs. and my 2nd most played class necro it is a bit easier on reaper although the stab gain is very slow and usually fast CC stop it or using the stab in mid of cc bomb wouldnt help(if you even able to press the skill due it have cast time).
We werent talking on prevent, we were talking about when you get chained CC.
As former dafiance stance user i can fully say it is because of the cast time but more because it is the only heal warrior have.Glint would not share same fate since you still have other heals to count on and lots of evades and blocks.
>i can fully say it is because of the cast time
Ok, so you agree.
>more because it is the only heal
So are you fully saying it’s because of the cast time or not having a second heal?
Regardless, I don’t think anyone considers Shiro’s heal as a real one (Empowering Misery is the only other decent heal and it’s still just a worse Consume Conditions) and Shield only goes so far.
Warrior can also have some evades and Blocks (along with Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, etc.) although the Warrior Shield is lacking a tad, but they can make up for it by not being completely annihilated by a few conditions.
I really do think the cast time will kill this heal outside of stupid crap that will happen regardless, like walking into AoEs (now it’s main purpose, in fact). So now Revenant wont have a great answer when CC-chained or bursted other than dropping a ton of energy on Riposting Shadows, using Gaze of Darkness or forcing themselves into Invocation and then forcing a Legend swap.
I am saying it is from both, but what really killed it that it is the only heal they have/depend on. Shiro’s heal is much better than no heal, and inferior consume conditions is better than have no heal at all again. And as for the CC chained, other proffesions have less answer to that, revenant is considered less troubled by it unlike thief, mesmer or necro.
I’m a big fan of theorycrafting, and then roaming in wvw with my crafted builds, but Rev seriously lacks build diversity. With that I mean that any condi rev WILL have to run that stupid main hand mace because there’s no other choice (why?). COMPETITIVE dueling power builds WILL run sword/shield, staff… glint will always be picked, for the shield and that facet on top (even if you don’t use the actual legend). retribution will also always be picked when you’re not trying to max out your damage (=pve), for that stabi on dodge etc.. ventari and salvation are ONLY worth it when using healing power. etc etc.
the lists of builds I made or found somewhere (for dueling) goes as follows:
-power shiro/glind hammer rev (not that strong but bursty as hell)
-power shiro/glind dueling rev (staff, sword/shield) w. retribution
-condi malyx standard build with varying types of armor
-eventually -> tanky jalis/ventari backline healer (?) rev which is not a dueling build so I don’t really care
let’s compare it to ranger/druid (technically my main):
here we go:
-power pew pew standard
-power pew pew with sword/dagger
-power pew pew standard with survival skills (traitline)
-power pew pew with signets (works very well)
-power pew pew bm shout (less strong, bc shouts are meh mostly)
-(power pew pew spirit support) <- not for dueling
-power semi cleric lb s/d wit signet of stone and double cat
-PotatoVeg’s power pew pew with trapper runes and traps (strangely strong)
-power melee semi tank shouts bm
-power melee shouts trooper rune & survival
-survival bleed sb s/d, sb s/t, sb a/t or sb a/d, with high crit chance and corresponding traits in marksmanship, survival and bm
-survival tanky a/t s/d with sun spirit (aka. glad build)
-trapper bursty woodenpotatoes-ish
-trapper tanky with trapper runes etc. (well known build)
-apothecary semishout condi a/d, s/t with regen. signet and lr, very tanky and very strong
-druid glyph cleric marksmanship etc. build (very very strong)
-druid celestial standard might stacking build
-druid undying trapper troll build (strong as f)
-druid survival, druid signet etc etc just add druid to anything it all works in some way
-you can swap so many things (TRAITS!!!!, ARMOR, some skills, whole weapon sets, etc.) in these builds and believe me when I say they are all very strong if played right!
this is just a fraction of possible builds.. now let’s go back to rev: -> no customizability of the utility skills -> big nope, ventari and jalis are basically useless when dueling, jalis MAY find its niche somewhere. So it’s ALWAYS between malyx/shiro, malyx/glint or shiro/glint…. very boring, it’s even worse when you look at the weapon choices… very sad imo.
Defiant stance was never used cus of the fact it has casttime which always made it useless due to how predicable it was. Glint will share the same fate now.
As former dafiance stance user i can fully say it is because of the cast time but more because it is the only heal warrior have.Glint would not share same fate since you still have other heals to count on and lots of evades and blocks.
If no one attacks you after you use Facet of Light you’re pretty much dead. That’s the high risk high reward part. If i get a full heal instead of a one-shot down from a DH traps or all of necro’s wells and staff aoe’s stacked on the point that shouldn’t be a nerf. That’s my counter.
If you are running Shiro/Glint, all of your heals are situational. So there’s no sure thing heal.
Not to say Rev isn’t OP
Chaotic Release-> Temporal Rift->Frigid Blitz-> Precision Strike->Unrelenting Assault->Elemental Blast-> Dead
Again, on hands of incomptent this is true. not on hands of experinced players who knows when to pop it. it is low risk high reward for them. warriors dont use dafiance cause they dont have another heal like herald have. Herald can basically kite and block and kite till it get the facet again EASLY.
The problem is the tiny animation can be obscured by the stun effect. When a Reaper Freezes a Rev for example. The block of ice completely obscures it.
that is no excuse though, some things will get obscured, it is the nature of the game. but the problem was and still is that it cannot be inturptted,can be used anytime(in mid of taking dmg). even when theh erald is CCed
You have 2 heals and with herald you have 3 essentially but lets not count it.
Facet of life is strong heal with not so obvious animation/effect and when you can pop it in mid of CC you got caught nicely and got outplayed and just regain all the health by the following opposition attacks it was stupid
Alternatively, your opponent saw that you used it, stopped attacking for a second and you effectively only healed ~1600 and now you’re dead.
But no animation or strong effect to be visible-moreover where other attacks are in play your only indicator is when it pops on character boon/cond bar and in mid of attack it is hard to spot and one backstab or gravedigger or evis or other aoe skill you cant cancel would just heal you up to 100% in no time. AND you got another heal. AND you got another heal+block AND you assume the herald is stupid to activate it just like that w/o seeing the opponet inc attack.
Weird that i have no issues spotting it whatsoever. Moreover when i know i fight glint rev i bait out heal first before bursting rev down. Its also worth to note that during shiro stance anyone should pressure the kitten out of rev the moment he swap to him as he has no heal whatsoever. Its l2p thing on your side.
I love the balance around worst possible players.. but its okay, this week nerfs to mallyx, shield&stab on dodge
says the herald lol no bias at all and im not talking about 1v1 here cause this game is not about 1v1 its about teamplay and group fights, which is more chaotic and you cant “bait” herald cause he can pop it in mid of chain attacks or aoe like I said before. You must have played against poor heralds which dont know when to use it.
You have 2 heals and with herald you have 3 essentially but lets not count it.
Facet of life is strong heal with not so obvious animation/effect and when you can pop it in mid of CC you got caught nicely and got outplayed and just regain all the health by the following opposition attacks it was stupid
Alternatively, your opponent saw that you used it, stopped attacking for a second and you effectively only healed ~1600 and now you’re dead.
But no animation or strong effect to be visible-moreover where other attacks are in play your only indicator is when it pops on character boon/cond bar and in mid of attack it is hard to spot and one backstab or gravedigger or evis or other aoe skill you cant cancel would just heal you up to 100% in no time. AND you got another heal. AND you got another heal+block AND you assume the herald is stupid to activate it just like that w/o seeing the opponet inc attack.
You have 2 heals and with herald you have 3 essentially but lets not count it.
Facet of life is strong heal with not so obvious animation/effect and when you can pop it in mid of CC you got caught nicely and got outplayed and just regain all the health by the following opposition attacks it was stupid
I feel like ghastly claws and our axe auto are pretty good, honestly. The problem is unholy feast… it’s a damage loss all the time. The only time you should ever use it: When kiting away from the opponent to cripple them or when you’re behind an obstacle because it hits through obstacles.
Unholy Feast is such a bad/outdated skill. That 1 boon corrupt is so… ugh… why…
I agree with the blast finisher. But also:
IMO, rather than a lame damage increase (since our axe 1 and 2 skills just do damage) I’d like to see Unholy Feast cast an AOE fear instead. A lot like the thieves stolen ability Skull Fear and our reaper shroud fear.
I don’t care what other effects unholy feast keeps or loses by I think a fear would be amazing. Fear is much superior to a cripple. I can think of many times where a fear would have saved my life.
On that note, I would also like to see our warhorn trait change the warhorns daze into a fear.
Tryed something similar in pvp,thou have to say GS is too slow “or am just not used to over 1s cast times” same as focus spinal shivers,takes ages to pull.Thou when i managed to gravedig some1 it was a nice number.You got some pvp video aswell?
Suffer would do good in those last fights when i am outnumbered greatly, but plague signet is more for soloroamer such as myself. Suffer would cleanse for each enemy, and if I am facing 1,2,3 enemies it will jsut cleanse 3 conditions, and in todays meta, you got to have reliable condi cleanse.
Sorry for the bit of low quality, I have 1680×1050 screen and in OBS the settings is below 720p cause there isnt 720 downscale resolution. so im kinda trying to get a good setting for streaming and recording which will be HD. Any help would be appreciated.
