Guild Wars 2

Kusa.6438:

Same with Mesmer, the condition cleanse on Mesmer sucks.

and yet.They have more condi cleanse than thieves.
SE is not that much of a good trait it just give you one condi cleanse per stealth.it will just give SA thieves which alreayd are cheese to be more cheese but who gives a kitten about them. it can eb even like condi per stealth rather to have iternal and that SE would just give iternal cd for more coni cleanse.

works for me ..

this build is one trick pony.You miss you lost.You can have same numbers with the usual build.

With the new specialization.Cant express enough how our condi cleanse options are very very limited,every condi spammer proffesion have 100% advantage over thieves.Trapper ranger,burn guard,condi engi,condi necro and mesmer->they have a headstart on us cause we have no condi mitgation even if we spec hard for condi cleanse on purpose!

Here a suggestion:Make shadow embrace BASELINE

Wryscher.1432:

Bllade.1029:

What’s worse about this entire situation is that Mesmers have taken over Thieves role.

There is absolutely no reason to play a Thief in this current meta when you could have a Mesmer instead.

Thieves rely on stealth and evades to stay alive but mesmers.. no they get clones.. ample supply of boons…. invulnerabilities… and now… PU STEALTH DURATION.

To be fair SA is very very strong. One of the strongest defensive trait lines in the game.

Anet makes some absolutely stupid decisions sometimes and I have no idea why.

The thing that annoys me most is that Mesmers have options. Don’t want to be a stealth heavy burst ? Ok. Just a little stealth? Ok. Don’t want to trait torches to cleanse? Ok do it with your shatters. Need a little extra healing? Oh here put in on your mantras.

Thieves have exactly one option. Stealth. The whole class and anything it does is tied to stealth. Need health? Stealth. Need cleanse? Stealth. Need survivability? Stealth.

Most the fun little gimmicky builds I enjoyed (p/p, s/p) in thief didn’t even include stealth, except maybe black powder as an escape. They are all dead now. With the nurf to thieves Arco line if you aren’t heavy stealth, you aren’t living very long.

Anywho this is my wvw rant maybe thieves are doing swell in pvp.

I’m a Mesmer now anyway… So long live the purple Rays of death?

Just…give…thieves..proper…condi cleanse..

Raunchy.6891:

Gabriell.4856:

“These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln.”

Can’t block…mirror blade….

I’m sorry, does Mind Wrack, the other HALF of that damage have a tooltip saying it’s unblockable? Oh I didn’t think so…

Mind wrack is not half of the dmg,mirror blade is all the dmg and mindwrack is even more by itself

it is so so irritating that even after we got nerfed AGAIN , ppl come ehre and post things about nerf.Feels like we getting sweeped under the rug by Anet and QQ players who just came ehre from LoL or WoW and excepct to be kings on start.

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Jerus.4350:

You don’t need to blind any of the Tentacles on Maw, now, it can be nice if you want to melee, but the threat is more the Colossi. They’re ring of earth knockdown is the biggest threat as if you get that and don’t have a stunbreak ready you can bite the dust if you have a poorly timed maw call. And, you really don’t have to touch many of the tentacles, they’re portion is “timelocked” I put in quotes as you can leech your way through maw faster but you do need to get the Colossi down asap and with their projectile reflection ranging is not the best idea and that’s why tentacles are so easy, you can just pewpew. So you’ll be pulling them and the squids over and rotating blinds while you pound them down with your daggers and what not.

Not trying to say stability is useless, it can be nice, but it’s more a carry tool for the professions that have access to group versions than a tool that’s necessary as most times a dodge allows you to avoid any issue you’d be solving with it.

The topic of jade maw is interesting because any good necro has nothing to fear in that fight. You can survive the maw’s attack with shroud if you’re knocked down and necro has a lot of stunbreaks too.

And I see you’re aware of the leech thing. So you know the fastest jade maw kill would probably involve a necro and a few GS mesmers, right?

But anyway if it’s an all necro team you’d be fine. They all have stun breaks and shroud. I rarely go down against jade maw. It’s really easy to play necro in that fight.

Look, I’ve already conceded that meta team is faster but to say an all necro team would have trouble completing the content is absurd. It’s the most survivable self sufficient profession so you don’t need the usual team support to complete content. You’re not trying to keep 10k health eles/thieves alive.

jesus you cant let go.It is sealed,duct and taped.5 necro team<meta team nothign you say will change it.

Stop saying the 5 necro team can’t complete content in the same way. The fact is they can do the same runs, same stacks, etc.

It was sufficient to come into the thread and point out that meta team is faster. Everything else you said was wrong though.

Things I said:
-Stability and reflects are important for maximizing the group speedrun.-true.(already proven with this site that have extensive walkthrough on all instances that advices stability on almost everything)
-5 necro team<meta team-true.
Remind me what other things I said that are not true….?

I thought you said necro would die running through content without support but nevermind. Too lazy to go back and look through posts because I am rapidly losing interest now because it seems we’ve come to an agreement.

What I said was it will be hard for necros w/o support.Everything in this game can be done.

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Jerus.4350:

You don’t need to blind any of the Tentacles on Maw, now, it can be nice if you want to melee, but the threat is more the Colossi. They’re ring of earth knockdown is the biggest threat as if you get that and don’t have a stunbreak ready you can bite the dust if you have a poorly timed maw call. And, you really don’t have to touch many of the tentacles, they’re portion is “timelocked” I put in quotes as you can leech your way through maw faster but you do need to get the Colossi down asap and with their projectile reflection ranging is not the best idea and that’s why tentacles are so easy, you can just pewpew. So you’ll be pulling them and the squids over and rotating blinds while you pound them down with your daggers and what not.

Not trying to say stability is useless, it can be nice, but it’s more a carry tool for the professions that have access to group versions than a tool that’s necessary as most times a dodge allows you to avoid any issue you’d be solving with it.

The topic of jade maw is interesting because any good necro has nothing to fear in that fight. You can survive the maw’s attack with shroud if you’re knocked down and necro has a lot of stunbreaks too.

And I see you’re aware of the leech thing. So you know the fastest jade maw kill would probably involve a necro and a few GS mesmers, right?

But anyway if it’s an all necro team you’d be fine. They all have stun breaks and shroud. I rarely go down against jade maw. It’s really easy to play necro in that fight.

Look, I’ve already conceded that meta team is faster but to say an all necro team would have trouble completing the content is absurd. It’s the most survivable self sufficient profession so you don’t need the usual team support to complete content. You’re not trying to keep 10k health eles/thieves alive.

jesus you cant let go.It is sealed,duct and taped.5 necro team<meta team nothign you say will change it.

Stop saying the 5 necro team can’t complete content in the same way. The fact is they can do the same runs, same stacks, etc.

It was sufficient to come into the thread and point out that meta team is faster. Everything else you said was wrong though.

Things I said:
-Stability and reflects are important for maximizing the group speedrun.-true.(already proven with this site that have extensive walkthrough on all instances that advices stability on almost everything)
-5 necro team<meta team-true.
Remind me what other things I said that are not true….?

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Jerus.4350:

You don’t need to blind any of the Tentacles on Maw, now, it can be nice if you want to melee, but the threat is more the Colossi. They’re ring of earth knockdown is the biggest threat as if you get that and don’t have a stunbreak ready you can bite the dust if you have a poorly timed maw call. And, you really don’t have to touch many of the tentacles, they’re portion is “timelocked” I put in quotes as you can leech your way through maw faster but you do need to get the Colossi down asap and with their projectile reflection ranging is not the best idea and that’s why tentacles are so easy, you can just pewpew. So you’ll be pulling them and the squids over and rotating blinds while you pound them down with your daggers and what not.

Not trying to say stability is useless, it can be nice, but it’s more a carry tool for the professions that have access to group versions than a tool that’s necessary as most times a dodge allows you to avoid any issue you’d be solving with it.

The topic of jade maw is interesting because any good necro has nothing to fear in that fight. You can survive the maw’s attack with shroud if you’re knocked down and necro has a lot of stunbreaks too.

And I see you’re aware of the leech thing. So you know the fastest jade maw kill would probably involve a necro and a few GS mesmers, right?

But anyway if it’s an all necro team you’d be fine. They all have stun breaks and shroud. I rarely go down against jade maw. It’s really easy to play necro in that fight.

Look, I’ve already conceded that meta team is faster but to say an all necro team would have trouble completing the content is absurd. It’s the most survivable self sufficient profession so you don’t need the usual team support to complete content. You’re not trying to keep 10k health eles/thieves alive.

jesus you cant let go.It is sealed,duct and taped.5 necro team<meta team nothign you say will change it.

Stop saying the 5 necro team can’t complete content in the same way. The fact is they can do the same runs, same stacks, etc.

Again.Read.my.first.comment. seriously it is that hard ? I beg you to read :’[

Khristophoros.7194:

Jerus.4350:

You don’t need to blind any of the Tentacles on Maw, now, it can be nice if you want to melee, but the threat is more the Colossi. They’re ring of earth knockdown is the biggest threat as if you get that and don’t have a stunbreak ready you can bite the dust if you have a poorly timed maw call. And, you really don’t have to touch many of the tentacles, they’re portion is “timelocked” I put in quotes as you can leech your way through maw faster but you do need to get the Colossi down asap and with their projectile reflection ranging is not the best idea and that’s why tentacles are so easy, you can just pewpew. So you’ll be pulling them and the squids over and rotating blinds while you pound them down with your daggers and what not.

Not trying to say stability is useless, it can be nice, but it’s more a carry tool for the professions that have access to group versions than a tool that’s necessary as most times a dodge allows you to avoid any issue you’d be solving with it.

The topic of jade maw is interesting because any good necro has nothing to fear in that fight. You can survive the maw’s attack with shroud if you’re knocked down and necro has a lot of stunbreaks too.

And I see you’re aware of the leech thing. So you know the fastest jade maw kill would probably involve a necro and a few GS mesmers, right?

But anyway if it’s an all necro team you’d be fine. They all have stun breaks and shroud. I rarely go down against jade maw. It’s really easy to play necro in that fight.

Look, I’ve already conceded that meta team is faster but to say an all necro team would have trouble completing the content is absurd. It’s the most survivable self sufficient profession so you don’t need the usual team support to complete content. You’re not trying to keep 10k health eles/thieves alive.

jesus you cant let go.It is sealed,duct and taped.5 necro team<meta team nothign you say will change it.Nobody said 5 necro team wouldnt complete content.It’s funny how it all come back to my first comment.IT…DOSNT….MATTER……JUST….NOT….FAST….AS….META….TEAM. better?

Playing S/D and having fun.Try running CS instead of Acro,at least you will get the chance to kill them first /o\

Kocoff.7582:

The moment you meet a ranger in WvW make sure you have access to cover. That is pretty much the only sure way to survive this, except maybe by forcing a Shadowstep.

6 seconds is a long time in thief’s life.

or just stay on his kitten .

stof.9341:

Having the player autoattack with the main hand and use the offhand in an utilitarian way is hardly ambidextrous which is what we have in the game.

It will be weird and unfitting having a thief use his dagger in autoattacks in melee while having a sword in the other hand.

Again,it can look fitting,if the animation is done right.

MadVisions.4529:

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Flavor-wise, an evade or miss may as well be the same as hitting the air.

think of it… if you AA into the air noothing happens, on the other hand if you AA someone blocking, evading or with blind your AA stage develops. this should happen to FS too.

Agree on this.

idk,tbh im good with anet after the feline grace change.(Playing s/d)

There is one thing that still bugs me and this is the condi superiority,thieves dont have reliable condi cleanse.

What about “Withdraw” and “Roll for intiative”?

Also,Disabling shot is not all useless,but it is freaking does nothing but evade and the animation is broken.fix the animation please

Increasing the evade times will result a toxic attitude by the rest of the community as they would think this will make us OP which eventually will nerf us even more in the long run.

I like your post.Kudos on level 80 soon!

spoj.9672:

The statement “you need stability to go as fast as possible in a speedrun” falls flat when the majority of current records do not use a guardian or any stability in any part.

And yes Khristo I am aware eles can blast to 25. I usually solo stack 25 before each fight out of habit (I play ele the majority of the time). But in case you werent aware. Eles should be running staff while in combat. And in fractals the fights will often last too long to fully burst a boss down before might drops. There are a few exceptions of course.

So there are times when the party will be on about 9 stacks of might mid/late fight. This is where the phalanx really kicks in. It also helps because you dont even need to pre-stack other than a few quick blasts for fury. So you can engage slightly faster. And warriors should be running empower allies and banners anyway, So phalanx is basically a free bonus. That said you dont need warriors. My group sometimes does frac 50 without one (we play whatever we want). But most of the time the extra QoL the phalanx brings is essential to maximum efficiency.

Check your “records” again cause even in http://gw2dungeons.net/ they always advice stability.

spoj.9672:

The evolved husk does not have any pull. The other stuff you said makes literally no sense. You can dodge every one of those things Jerus mentions. Or use blinds. A necro team should have more than enough blinds with plague and WoD rotations.

Getting knocked into lava is the sign of a bad player or someone messing around like an idiot. And getting knocked by the destroyer of worlds just means you need to learn to dodge super slow tells.

Like all the things in Gw2 you can dodge and those examples are not the only ones,you got infinite situations when you need stab to perfect a run as meta.Saying l2p humor me cause your excuses with using plague and WoD rotations is like getting thief to the party for just blinding and no dmg.The point of this thread was that 5 necros can outbest meta team,and it is false and any theories about WoD and plague and other things that can replace meta are just theories which proven false in the course of which gw2 exsist so saying l2p while it is obvious you already wrong from the start is without base and really just out of rage or childish drama.Point is if you just inturpted for 0.00000000001 sec cause you havent had stab already prove my point.

-Evovled husk knocks you down not pull.

OH sword no doubt

We need commentators who are active playing necro in wvw.

I play Necro in wvw and I even stream it once in a while,tho my stream is quite not popular,and I dont do commentaries.I think we lack those.

I find mesmer community the best open minded playerbased in the game cause tehy know what should be best for mesmers and they know that being OP is not one of them.

Ithamir.5928:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Mesmer was getting out of line. I did not appreciate being insulted every time I joined a pvp match.

and nothing was nerfed below what it was pre-patch

If other professions are getting buffed, while we’re not “nerfed below what it was pre-patch”, isn’t it an indirect nerf?

No,cause it dosnt mean we got nerfed back to pre patch.we didnt,we still one shot 5 thieves with one shatter combo

Jerus.4350:

Sandrox.9524:

Jerus.4350:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Petrol.9086:

Well you wrote “won’t survive Arah or high lvl fractals” which is what i reacted to, and it is perfectly viable to clear them without much trouble.

But no you won’t do better than the standard meta team. Guardians, Warriors and Eles are just too frickin strong beacuse Anet somehow think it’s balanced to give the some of the highest damage dealers the best support because reasons.

Wont survive trying to do it like the meta team.

Yes you will lol.

I just did arah today because I happen to need tokens and nobody helped me run past the mobs. I just survived because I’m tanky.

5 necros would survive running easily because they’re all tanky and you can CC the mobs with staff abilities to keep them off you while you run.

Somebody in the thread said 5 necros made things easier and I’m not surprised. The necro is the most self sufficient character and is unlikely to ever go down when played right. So if you have 5 of them your party probably won’t wipe.

I mean it’s slower because you don’t have blasts + fire fields or ice bows. But you will be able to skip whatever you need to skip and stack where you need to stack and all that.

Running past mobs is one thing,doing the instance like meta is another.It all comes to my first comment to your topic.

You can do anything like the meta team aside from reflects.

Didnt knew that Necros have quickness,blast finishers,fire fields and stability(yeah you need it to not get inturpted on your burst) omg wtf is wrong with me

How often do you really need stability? I mean I run it on Aetherblade Fractal when I guard but not very many other places, none that I can think of off the top of my head other than maybe harpies if you’re killing them.

I can give you alot.When you do speedrun and you want to do it as fast as possible,every second count,so every knockback,stun etc gonna be less dmg done.
Stability helps like in ascalon fractal jade maw fractal,the lasers thingy fractals,traumnova fractal and swamp too or in Arah,or in CoE,or even in SE.There are more this is just on top of my head.You can survive w/o stability that is no doubt.But the surviving cost you dmg and time which meta team wouldnt.

Almost every example you give there are issues you can deal with easily without stability most where you don’t even gain much and those that you do you take damage and lose scholar bonuses so…

Ascalon it’s mainly the Ballista, only really a concern at all when you’re at Dulfy and waiting on a timelock event while you kill Arrow Carts/Ballista. And, to take stability you often sacrifice damage, pretty easily argued that a dodge is worthwhile.

Arah… I guess potentially one person needs/wants it at Lupi though you can deal with it in other ways as well.

Where in CoE? maybe I’m forgetting something but I can’t think of what you’re referring to.

SE I guess potentially, but if you’re taking longer than a deep freeze to kill anything you’d need/want it on outside of maybe Tazza, well, you’re not speed running.

Thaumanova, are you refering to the portals where you can simply dodge while you’re running up and be perfectly fine not losing any damage as you’re still on the move anyways?

Jade Maw, well, blinds do wonders to prevent the only need you have for that which is that pesky rock circle from the Colossi.

And, yeah “lazer thingy” is Aetherblade and as I said helps quite a bit there, but honestly I found our 5 necro run there easier than it typically is with a guardian though to be fair Lich Form was used and has stability.

Really not gonna enter with you on all things,tho it will be rude to not answer you on somthing:While I said you can do things w/o stability,stability helps to do dmg and helps on tiny things that happen in mid instance.Cant point out all the things cause there is too many.

FYI: in CoE there is this vine thingy that you need to pull golems to it.He pulls.

You said so many things to avoid but you forgot,can Necro team do those things you said that can replace stability? like blinding the jade maw tentacles? you have well on long cd.

SE you wouldnt kill so fast if ppl would drop to lava,or you wont do alot of dmg if you get knocked by the destoryer of worlds.Or get pulled by golems in p2.

Khristophoros.7194:

Jerus.4350:

spoj.9672:

Nah BiP is worse than guard staff now.

I guess I see what you’re saying, looking at it again, yeah not that impressive, we were using it as a team of 5 necros and we all bursted to 20+ stacks then maintained it through other means and were sitting pretty. But, yes 8s 30s reuse for 8 stacks… again I thought it was better than it is. I don’t know if I’d go to the extreme of staff guard being better, pulling a staff out during a fight is just… eww. But, guard is capable of keeping up 5+ stacks with their on crit trait which isn’t a big loss to get anymore with the trait reworking and strength of symbols making Honor a decent idea.

5 necros wouldn’t need to worry about might sharing actually. They’d each generate their own might.

You can,and you can even take blood is power and more might sharing!
1st.this is a new thing.
2nd.you wouldnt get insta 25 might and you will not maintain even 20(maybe with blood is power but that will require you to lose utlity you need beside the wells.

Jerus.4350:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Petrol.9086:

Well you wrote “won’t survive Arah or high lvl fractals” which is what i reacted to, and it is perfectly viable to clear them without much trouble.

But no you won’t do better than the standard meta team. Guardians, Warriors and Eles are just too frickin strong beacuse Anet somehow think it’s balanced to give the some of the highest damage dealers the best support because reasons.

Wont survive trying to do it like the meta team.

Yes you will lol.

I just did arah today because I happen to need tokens and nobody helped me run past the mobs. I just survived because I’m tanky.

5 necros would survive running easily because they’re all tanky and you can CC the mobs with staff abilities to keep them off you while you run.

Somebody in the thread said 5 necros made things easier and I’m not surprised. The necro is the most self sufficient character and is unlikely to ever go down when played right. So if you have 5 of them your party probably won’t wipe.

I mean it’s slower because you don’t have blasts + fire fields or ice bows. But you will be able to skip whatever you need to skip and stack where you need to stack and all that.

Running past mobs is one thing,doing the instance like meta is another.It all comes to my first comment to your topic.

You can do anything like the meta team aside from reflects.

Didnt knew that Necros have quickness,blast finishers,fire fields and stability(yeah you need it to not get inturpted on your burst) omg wtf is wrong with me

How often do you really need stability? I mean I run it on Aetherblade Fractal when I guard but not very many other places, none that I can think of off the top of my head other than maybe harpies if you’re killing them.

I can give you alot.When you do speedrun and you want to do it as fast as possible,every second count,so every knockback,stun etc gonna be less dmg done.
Stability helps like in ascalon fractal jade maw fractal,the lasers thingy fractals,traumnova fractal and swamp too or in Arah,or in CoE,or even in SE.There are more this is just on top of my head.You can survive w/o stability that is no doubt.But the surviving cost you dmg and time which meta team wouldnt.

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Petrol.9086:

Well you wrote “won’t survive Arah or high lvl fractals” which is what i reacted to, and it is perfectly viable to clear them without much trouble.

But no you won’t do better than the standard meta team. Guardians, Warriors and Eles are just too frickin strong beacuse Anet somehow think it’s balanced to give the some of the highest damage dealers the best support because reasons.

Wont survive trying to do it like the meta team.

Yes you will lol.

I just did arah today because I happen to need tokens and nobody helped me run past the mobs. I just survived because I’m tanky.

5 necros would survive running easily because they’re all tanky and you can CC the mobs with staff abilities to keep them off you while you run.

Somebody in the thread said 5 necros made things easier and I’m not surprised. The necro is the most self sufficient character and is unlikely to ever go down when played right. So if you have 5 of them your party probably won’t wipe.

I mean it’s slower because you don’t have blasts + fire fields or ice bows. But you will be able to skip whatever you need to skip and stack where you need to stack and all that.

Running past mobs is one thing,doing the instance like meta is another.It all comes to my first comment to your topic.

You can do anything like the meta team aside from reflects.

Didnt knew that Necros have quickness,blast finishers,fire fields and stability(yeah you need it to not get inturpted on your burst) omg wtf is wrong with me

same here !%^(&*)&

the net won tho somtimes the net is right.

Spinal Shivers: Removed an incorrect unblockable skill fact from this skill. While this skill does remove aegis before striking, it is not unblockable.
from today patch.

ronpierce.2760:

Sandrox.9524:

zapv.8051:

Sandrox.9524:

zapv.8051:

Jayce.5632:

They really do need to fix the unlockable bug. I’m not so sure about a cast time reduction. This skill, along with chill of death trait, can down almost anyone when it doesn’t get blocked. I actually count the seconds of the trait just to use this skill.

What your talking about is the strength of the trait chill of death, not the skill spinal shivers. Your talking about combining the two, but you would probably be better off auto attacking on dagger or hitting a life blast. Spinal shivers is bad, and anyone decent will dodge it. Honestly, chill of death is super cheap and they should remove it. Replace it with actual burst skills on necro actual weapons (dagger 2, axe 2, focus 4/5).

For instance, they could remove chill of death, make spinal shivers instant, and replace chill of death with a trait that made wells pulse 20 seconds of might to everyone in them.

Chill of death is AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZING trait.You really really really really dont know what you talking about.

No, I know exactly what I’m talking about. Chill of death is an amazing trait only if you like auto-proc bs damage that requires no timing, or even awareness to land. It’s broken and dumb. Meanwhile, focus, the actual weapon that inspired that trait is broken and useless in pvp. I just think that should be fixed.

There is no other auto proc trait that can deal as much damage instantly as chill of death and it’s really dumb and broken.

Well,it dosnt matter when the auto-proc work,when it do,you dont want to be on the reciever end.I one shot thieves(well by one shot mean using lifeblast+the auto-proc of the trait) and bursting ppl when they low that they dosnt even have the time to pop up heal.I agree on the focus skills that are so dumb with the long cast times but I like to pull of a good burst with it.

You’re missing his point. He never said it was bad. He said it was cheap. As in lots of reward for an easy proc, and it kind of is. It’s not alone in that department, but he isn’t wrong. Yes it’s ‘good’, but it doesn’t mean it’s not a little cheap.

What he looking for is to nerf possibly our only burstable trait?

nekretaal.6485:

Focus spinal shivers tries to fill a role that the Necomancer doesn’t have the tools for.

If you are in a team fight and want to burst somebody down, spinal shivers can remove his burst defenses, do a bunch of damage and pressure him with chill.

But necromancers have no business being in such fights if anet isn’t going to hand out projectile reflects, blocks, vigor, or blasts. (and if the self heals are going to remain so bad).

Spinal shivers ought to be remade a spammy control tool. 3/4s cast, 10 second coolown. 4 second chill (one fewer), no bonus damage, 2 boon corruptions (down from 3 removed boons).

That’s a useable skill.

zapv.8051:

No, I know exactly what I’m talking about. Chill of death is an amazing trait only if you like auto-proc bs damage that requires no timing, or even awareness to land. It’s broken and dumb. Meanwhile, focus, the actual weapon that inspired that trait is broken and useless in pvp. I just think that should be fixed.

There is no other auto proc trait that can deal as much damage instantly as chill of death and it’s really dumb and broken.

Chill of death is really dumb. It does too much damage. We already got our downed state damage nerfed because of chill of death.

I suspect Chill of death is the reason the class doesn’t have a proper “finisher” skill. Chill of death may be why necromancer is just “1 spam.”.

We are not the only ones who dont have “Finisher”.Guards,rangers and engineers dont have “finishers” and before you give me skills that burst,compare them to 1 lifeblast from close.

Tyr.6097:

stof.9341:

You are grasping at straws here.

Not really. The whole discussion about staffs is. There are too much (good) reasons why thiefs don’t get one.

- Ranger is getting one already
- Rifle would fill the space for long range combat
- Rifle wouldn’t hurt the current dual skill system
- Ricochet gone (no increased range for pistols anymore, so a new range option is even more important)
- Thiefs are deadly killers, not stick wielding monks. It will simply not fit the class theme.
- Thiefs already have a wide toolset of melee options. Staffs wouldn’t add something gamechanging, unless you want a change for the sake of change.

Chances are high that if it’s not the rifle, the thief will get an offhand sword instead of a staff. Sword offhand isn’t used for an additional elite spec currently. Engineers won’t get it since they only have the pistol main hand. That would feel weird. Also they have the rifle and the preview is showing that they get the hammer. Warriors already have sword offhand AND rifle. So whats left? Not much. Rangers will get the staff for sure, everything else is revealed.

Thiefs aren’t really magical based, so scepter/focus won’t it be. Axes and maces aren’t practical for a thief (my opinion). The only thing left would be the torch. Could work, but i have my doubts if it fits the theme in a logical way.

thieves got pistol mainhand too,this dosn’t feel weird? altough I think not.But engi already getting hammer.

Rifles will damage thieves playstyle.

lighter.2708:

arenta.2953:

lighter.2708:

Elite spec is to fill the empty spot inside a class.
Thieves have being QQing for a long long time that they can only play as zerker and nothing else is viable.

Hint:
What role thieves never able to play in PvP and WvW?
it has some thing to do for being on point.

don’t assume you represent all theives

What role theives never able to play in PvP and WvW?
range. why? cause all their good skills are melee or close up
range is never viable in any form, no class can ever be pure range, even mesmer

shortbow is a shadow step/explosion spam weapon. not good for constant damage from range

pistol…..yeah….pistol/pistol enough said. it FAILED

pistol with dagger is a stealth spam. not a constant damage (or dmg at all really. its a time delay. designed for evading dmg and ends up closer range rather than actual range)

theif has always been in melee, doing bursts of dmg. (or constant dmg with a weaker build)

what doesn’t it have.
ranged constant dmg.

or good burst ranged dmg. (pistol pistol failed. shortbow needs ground targeting and so misses movign stuff)

add to all this pistol range is capped at 900 now. no 1050 range.

1.I don’t represent thief, because i don’t main it.
the most common argument when used to protect the thief and the most valid one, is thief has no other roles other then DPS

2. i doubt if you play pvp, range is never represented as a role in gw2, there’s only roles like DPS, bruiser, bunker etc. there’s no role called a range( it’s more like a a form of attacking) and no class can ever be pure range, not even mesmer nor ranger nor killshot and thief has its fair share of ranged pressure through constant poison field, cluster bomb, weakness and aoe auto, so i seriously don’t understand what you talking about, except in PvE, where thief is pretty weak in range, then tbh…i don’t even want to talk about it

that is like removing necro,ranger,mesmer and ele from the game. you sure you play Gw2? range defo have a place in all around gw2.

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Petrol.9086:

Well you wrote “won’t survive Arah or high lvl fractals” which is what i reacted to, and it is perfectly viable to clear them without much trouble.

But no you won’t do better than the standard meta team. Guardians, Warriors and Eles are just too frickin strong beacuse Anet somehow think it’s balanced to give the some of the highest damage dealers the best support because reasons.

Wont survive trying to do it like the meta team.

Yes you will lol.

I just did arah today because I happen to need tokens and nobody helped me run past the mobs. I just survived because I’m tanky.

5 necros would survive running easily because they’re all tanky and you can CC the mobs with staff abilities to keep them off you while you run.

Somebody in the thread said 5 necros made things easier and I’m not surprised. The necro is the most self sufficient character and is unlikely to ever go down when played right. So if you have 5 of them your party probably won’t wipe.

I mean it’s slower because you don’t have blasts + fire fields or ice bows. But you will be able to skip whatever you need to skip and stack where you need to stack and all that.

Running past mobs is one thing,doing the instance like meta is another.It all comes to my first comment to your topic.

lighter.2708:

Elite spec is to fill the empty spot inside a class.
Thieves have being QQing for a long long time that they can only play as zerker and nothing else is viable.

Hint:
What role thieves never able to play in PvP and WvW?
it has some thing to do for being on point.

You got valid point.And moreover,I would like to see it.But as far as thieves wanted,I think it is andOH sword.

Petrol.9086:

Well you wrote “won’t survive Arah or high lvl fractals” which is what i reacted to, and it is perfectly viable to clear them without much trouble.

But no you won’t do better than the standard meta team. Guardians, Warriors and Eles are just too frickin strong beacuse Anet somehow think it’s balanced to give the some of the highest damage dealers the best support because reasons.

Wont survive trying to do it like the meta team.

Reampancer. (see what I did there ^^)

Petrol.9086:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

In short, “no”, because Ice Bow 4*4 with Might and Fury stacking more than outdamages both Well of Suffering and Well of Corruption combined.

Plus, the Necros can’t just skip mobs.

I forgot about Ice Bow oops. That thing is OP, can’t believe they’re not nerfing it.

But what’s this about not being able to skip mobs? I always just run past them without any problems.

Cause you had friends with stab/protection/swiftness/vigor shared

No usually I just run through without boons. I join pugs regardless of the party comp so we don’t always have guardians or thieves to make running easier. I just dodge stuff.

I mean I even solo the scepter piece gathering on Hodgins’ path in AC without bothering to bring any stability or stun breaks on my necro.

If you think boons are required for running past mobs you have a lot to learn.

AC? man that instance can be done by 5 lvl 60 rangers quickly.Im talking about ARah and high level fractals,w/o stability,swiftness and protection or reflect,you wont survive a bit.

Please, you can do it just fine. It won’t go as fast and it won’t be as faceroll as an optimized group but you won’t have any serious problems.
People of all classes managed to solo Lupi back when i played before, you don’t need to one shot him with a reflect or skip 80% of the content with a thief to be able to beat the dungeon.

We didnt talked about soloing a champ mob,neither about the ability of 5 necro team to finish an instance.The time factor do play a part in this discussion as the OP thniks it is viable to go 5 necro than the standart faceroll setups,and even do better.Which is wrong.

fyi you should read my 1st reply here which is the 2nd in this topic.

zapv.8051:

Sandrox.9524:

zapv.8051:

Jayce.5632:

They really do need to fix the unlockable bug. I’m not so sure about a cast time reduction. This skill, along with chill of death trait, can down almost anyone when it doesn’t get blocked. I actually count the seconds of the trait just to use this skill.

What your talking about is the strength of the trait chill of death, not the skill spinal shivers. Your talking about combining the two, but you would probably be better off auto attacking on dagger or hitting a life blast. Spinal shivers is bad, and anyone decent will dodge it. Honestly, chill of death is super cheap and they should remove it. Replace it with actual burst skills on necro actual weapons (dagger 2, axe 2, focus 4/5).

For instance, they could remove chill of death, make spinal shivers instant, and replace chill of death with a trait that made wells pulse 20 seconds of might to everyone in them.

Chill of death is AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZING trait.You really really really really dont know what you talking about.

No, I know exactly what I’m talking about. Chill of death is an amazing trait only if you like auto-proc bs damage that requires no timing, or even awareness to land. It’s broken and dumb. Meanwhile, focus, the actual weapon that inspired that trait is broken and useless in pvp. I just think that should be fixed.

There is no other auto proc trait that can deal as much damage instantly as chill of death and it’s really dumb and broken.

Well,it dosnt matter when the auto-proc work,when it do,you dont want to be on the reciever end.I one shot thieves(well by one shot mean using lifeblast+the auto-proc of the trait) and bursting ppl when they low that they dosnt even have the time to pop up heal.I agree on the focus skills that are so dumb with the long cast times but I like to pull of a good burst with it.

Hey,im not the best necro but you can check my vids the MERC ones are ZvZ’s https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ-lQ1FRl1yM8nmeX4QT5Lg/videos

zapv.8051:

Jayce.5632:

They really do need to fix the unlockable bug. I’m not so sure about a cast time reduction. This skill, along with chill of death trait, can down almost anyone when it doesn’t get blocked. I actually count the seconds of the trait just to use this skill.

What your talking about is the strength of the trait chill of death, not the skill spinal shivers. Your talking about combining the two, but you would probably be better off auto attacking on dagger or hitting a life blast. Spinal shivers is bad, and anyone decent will dodge it. Honestly, chill of death is super cheap and they should remove it. Replace it with actual burst skills on necro actual weapons (dagger 2, axe 2, focus 4/5).

For instance, they could remove chill of death, make spinal shivers instant, and replace chill of death with a trait that made wells pulse 20 seconds of might to everyone in them.

Chill of death is AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZING trait.You really really really really dont know what you talking about.

Pelopidas.2140:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Sandrox.9524:

Khristophoros.7194:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

In short, “no”, because Ice Bow 4*4 with Might and Fury stacking more than outdamages both Well of Suffering and Well of Corruption combined.

Plus, the Necros can’t just skip mobs.

I forgot about Ice Bow oops. That thing is OP, can’t believe they’re not nerfing it.

But what’s this about not being able to skip mobs? I always just run past them without any problems.

Cause you had friends with stab/protection/swiftness/vigor shared

No usually I just run through without boons. I join pugs regardless of the party comp so we don’t always have guardians or thieves to make running easier. I just dodge stuff.

I mean I even solo the scepter piece gathering on Hodgins’ path in AC without bothering to bring any stability or stun breaks on my necro.

If you think boons are required for running past mobs you have a lot to learn.

AC? man that instance can be done by 5 lvl 60 rangers quickly.Im talking about ARah and high level fractals,w/o stability,swiftness and protection or reflect,you wont survive a bit.

I do fractals with any group comp, idc. I mentioned AC because the running parts are full of enemies that knock down.

I haven’t touched Arah since I got Dungeon Master but I did it on my necro and had no issues running past mobs there either.

Ok.Why do I bother.

Skipping mobs on necro is easy as hell, if you need ally buffs then you do it wrong… since arah p2 can be easily skipped there is no argument that you need allies to skip.
and in high lvl fractal the only thing necro lacks is reflects, you got protection and swiftness, stability vigor are very situational and not needed. And you can get both if you really want them…

In any way you looking at what you said,it just proves my point.You litreally looking for excuses: “can do arah p2” oh well didnt know arah have one path :/,“Only thing necro lacks is reflects” if this is “only” I dont know what game you playing.You obviosuly havent done high level fractals,if you think reflects are “only”.And Stability is situational-and you use it on almost every situation.

I find it-quite imaginative.

Could care less of what Sizer is doing.I still love s/d and it works very nice. The word you looking for is adjust,I had problems at start but I adjusted,and now im fine with the changes to thieves,maybe a bit more health needed but in general I find it adjustable.

Im using PC,my GPU does not overheat,I triple-dobule checked. Thank you for replying ^^

stof.9341:

Note that Warrior currently doesn’t even have a “small” weapon available, and that Mesmer only has Pistol, and they can only use it in the offhand.

So both classes are unable to use a small main hand weapon with a big offhand weapon.

mace=dagger in size.

halp :[ problem still occur :[