Guild Wars 2

should have some uses in high end fractals.

Pvp is not based on 1v1 which means,if so happens thief targeting you just use decoy and get some distance cause he will tab you,and being far away enough the tab wont work.

Another thing is thief with S/D will prolly kill you kittenter if you will shatter.In my experience,to kill s/d thieves,you need to get phantasms up and running.Dont ever let yourself out in the open w/o clones/phantasms the more inteligent S/D thieves I faced switched to shortbow,this is where you shatter them hombres.

Portal is your friend,always when you about to cap a point by yourself(alone) and you know they got a thief which could be inc,place portal far enough to get out of sticky situation.

Do not panic,if you in middle of a fight,and thief chose to focusing on you stand near your teammate,target the thief when you can to let your teammate know the divine presence of the thief.(or shout on TS if you are on).

Mind games,thief and shatter mesmer have this mind game:(At least imo):"Oh look,a thief,well,steal inc… " and thief would be like:“mesmer,hmm…..fooooooood”
Thief:“oh look he is doing the blurred frenzy thing,lets avoid it”
mesmer:“Oh kitten,the thief went to stealth what to do!?!?!?”
All these thoughts can be mind blowing,but once you know how thieves work,and how mesmer works,you should never be obvious against thieves.And it goes both ways when thief fighting mesmer.Vashury did had a video about handling thieves,if you havent watched it is a good time to do so.

Not saying thieves are easy kills for me,and not saying im so good that I can kill thieves just with words,I just think thieves and S/D ones in particular,have an adventage on shatter mesmers,but it dosnt mean,by any chance,that shatter mesmer cant outplay even a good S/D thief. I run staff/s-s lockdown build but somtimes using double ranged shatter,amd yes it is hard to deal with thieves but you first of all should avoid unneccessary fights with them,and if you do have to fight one just try to make the most of it.

Over.2137:

Anyone of you guys know Doiid from the old RedGuard guild?
He is nr.1 imho
Special credit to Osi, main reason i play mesmer since the beginning, even if he doesnt play shatter sometimes (why Osi why >.<)

I know,I was in the followup guild to RedGuard(scnd) and I asked him for a few tips,mainly for wvw zerging.He explained me the wisdom behind how to fully maximized mesmer to be helpfull for a zerging group.

To the topic,I played with Osicat many times back while he was in Gandara with the guild Judge.Impressive lad,he defiantly got me hooked up with the mesmer class even more!
Besides that,Im taking notes from every mesmer players who active helping here in the forums such as:Chaos-the most dominant,Rytlock-his tormentor?,Pyro the enlightened,Vashury the annhilitor xD and many more.A wise man learns from everyone.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SinisterWraith.2910:

From what I have been reading on these forums. The Thief has literally been nerf’d into the ground and unplayable in PvP.

You are right, the game is full of easy mode AoE and CC, Condi builds etc that deal way more damage than a skill shot like back stab. I think if you are wanting a melee play Warrior, if you want a stealth toon play Ranger. Thief is dead.

Wait, what? Ez mode? I wonder who has ez mode. If you want to find out who has it “easy” play my zerker staff ele full of AoE and CC and I’ll play your thief build. We will see who has it “easy” when I can reset all the fights I want, flee without possibly being caught and start any fight with a 50% head start on life points because I destroyed that much of your life pool before you even knew I was there…

That post is just ridiculous. I can understand some frustration after some nerfs but this is just shameful.

Tbh,if the thief has reset the fight,you won.Gw2 pvp is not about 1v1,and ppl always forget this.50% headstart is really your fault,either you are squishy as the thief,or cant tell when thief is nearby.l2p on this.staff eles on point are IMPOSSIBLE to kill by thieves. you just sit on point spam aoe and the thief wont even dare to step in and backstab you.full zerk staff ele can do 3-5k dmg on meteor shower every sec to a thief.

lvis.3824:

Sandrox.9524:

D/p thief with equal skill would always win guys,cause stealth. D/D ele rotations are predictable,which d/p thieves can exploit easly.What you describing is a incompetent d/p thief against good D/D ele.Cause good d/p thief would time his steal when ele has protection,good thief would time his backstabs when ele have no protection,thief have endless access to posion,ele cant see thief when he is on stealth so he cant really counter what I said above.So it is pretty much obvious.

What you describe is Bad D/D ele vs thief who can play … can say the same.
Ofc you will want to use steal when he has prot up and left water, but a good ele knows that.
He can dodge your steal, he gives you enough pressure so you have to perhaps use steal before to take out some pressure and get the fight in your favor.

D/D ele has redicilous burning ticks and also poison, and a thief does not have any poison cleanse outside heal and SS with Meta D/P build…

AGAIN, the OP was asking about D/P meta and not S/D nor a variation of D/P => so thief will lose given equal skill !

Perhaps you should fight competent eles that will extend your point of view dunno..

As I said,dodging steal,meaning he saw the thief,which I just said most thieves would do it from stealth and even without stealth,you say dodge steal like it is easy for high level players.And again,as I said,ele is predictable,and his burning skills require the thief to be in the area,which woudl never happen with a thief who at least knows the basics of d/d ele.
Oh well…

Kocoff.7582:

ConradR.6940:

in a 1v1 situation to win a duel?

Note* (Currently I play a D/P thief with Caed build 2/6/0/0/6 )

very important D/P move
I am goign to assume you are new to D/P

make your camera look completely vertically on you, do #5 then Heartseeker multiple. around your blacksmoke. you could get 3 stealth counts that could help you stay invis. and increase your survivablity. Don’t keep spam #5 & #2, it will be your own death.

very important D/P move

You can also #5 +#2 = stealth. then #3 + #1 on your target for teleport backstab. time it properly, and you will see.

Warrior : ( especially, Greatsword & Axe+ Shield)

note that when the Axe + Shield is up. be very very very careful because you might get downed in teh next few seconds, when the warrior starts blocking, i say retreating completely or be invisible.

you must and absolutely must take advantage of Hundred Blades , it is a chain. This means you should be able to casually dodge towards his back and own.

last thing for warrior skill when you steal from warrior is very precious. when you get it, do the following:

- stealth
- activate your Basilik Venom.
- use that F1 and close on him. he ll regret it.

Guardian
Since you are DP, you must use your safe distance and shoot two #4s to break his block.
it is a must that use your #4 properly. it is very hard but hey stopping a heal is game breaker mate.
Keep the skill that Stole until he tries to heal.

ALSO IMPORTANT, your #5 cannot blind all the Guardian’s Greatsword’s #2 (the whirlwind) attacks. it will block maybe 2 or 3, so get out immediately.

Mesmer
as D/P idk what do tell you. but it’s definitely about patience. since im D/D i C&D the clone to chill and take my time. the thing with mesmer and other Scholar classes is the simple fact that at one you just need to go all in to kill them. or they will keep messing up with your head.

Necro

the Fear from Steal is crucial, and switch to bow if the necro is trying to protecting him/herself with those AOE zones. make the necro realize your not falling for it. or use your stolen fear to make him get out of there.
If you have dealt a lot of damage and the Necro is using the Death shroud ( turns green phantasmal) , retreat and wait until he wastes his Death Shrourd.
This additional life bar is only but a timed illusion. stay calm, and he will recuperate the low that he/she had.
DO NOT MISS YOUR STEAL.

obviously run away when they turn into Liches.. it’s at least 1.5k per hit. you must get out.

ranger, or Hunter lol

Do not EVER allow the ranger to think he is at a safe distance. Your steal is Gap closer, use it IMMEDIATELY after you get pushed pack . you got D/P so your Shadow Shot is a blessing because it will be the best thing to use against him.
#3+ #5 = a lot of blinding if he does not react, then you can quickly Heartseek his kitten in stealth.

you must also IMMEDIATELY DISCARD the stolen skill. it’s only regeneration.
The good thing about the D/P vs Ranger is that ennemy pet will alaways be by yourside lol. It means that your #5 will make it miss 50% of its attacks.

As for Elementalist & Engis i cannot help you. i just do not want a sure way to get them.

Like the Mesmer, you must force yourself to go all out on them or the heal will outclass by far. especially engis. good thing you got #3.

GL.

Wrong about necro.
When necro is on DS,just auto attack him(try behind him) on BP,when he is on lich just be on his back all the time.Easy kill.

ranger pew pew have like signature moves when they gonna RF you such as (using rampage as one),or after they used thier aoe crap,always watch to not get crippled by the aoe cause they have a trait which boost RF dmg when you are crippled.Smartest thing to do is just blink a bit behind them when they start shooting or use clones as shield.
double range shatter is very easy to deal with them,spam clones with staff wait for his rf hide behind the clones,when he done he is sitting duck to your GS skills.

@Chaos:Well,I did spoke about this particular duel,which rendered iwarden useless,and the only thing is staff iwarlok which is really hard to tell when he hits at all,and when he hits,target should have lots of conds in it to be an impact so it is very dependable.

@Warlord: On the controrary,I pretty much know the difference betwin bursts and pressure,and having phantasm on who have burst dmg dosnt mean you do bursts.It means you have another dmg dealer or another thing you neeed to worry about
->pressure.#4 skill is alot better if you execute block,especially when you auto attack him with gs alot.You may dodge/distortion/stealth from iswordsman,but that means you did used dodge/distortion/stealth on iswordsman alone hence pressure worked.Also iswordsman would track you after you exit stealth.Ppl tend to overestimate iswordsman,but fact is that iswordsman is imo,on the same level as izerker.

I would never question your abiity to kite with other specs,but you would agree with me that using gs instead of staff is offense for defense tradeoff,which in result,make alot harder to control a point.

Simon.3794:

thief will lose on point.

Agree with this but I assumed about 1v1 on point without considering the cap.

StickerHappy.8052:

Sandrox.9524:

I dont think you just got outplayed chaos,you didnt had the pressure he had.
staff gives you defense,not much of an offense,and using focus would give you almost useless phantasm against him,while he had izerker and fast range attack weapon.It was like you were always on defense mode while he was on the attack.if you would have changed to even sw/sw instead of sw/f you would have prolly done better.But not using staff on lockdown build is pretty much a shot in the knee,yes GS is good spiking and good pressure,but staff gives you lot more defense,which is not so good in duels,but in conquest mode it is gold.

I will disagree with you entirely here. You will know as soon as you fight rylock, I even get rylock to fraking 500 hp and he still manages to kill me haha. Must be the charr (<—- Sticker’s Excuses)

@Chaos

Upload our vids man if we ever have one! I think I never saw a vid with you that you uploaded. Upload that guardian kitten!

Wasnt adressed it to who is dueling,and how skilled Rytlock or Chaos are,it is in general,sw/sw would done so much better in this fight for Chaos.

I dont think you just got outplayed chaos,you didnt had the pressure he had.
staff gives you defense,not much of an offense,and using focus would give you almost useless phantasm against him,while he had izerker and fast range attack weapon.It was like you were always on defense mode while he was on the attack.if you would have changed to even sw/sw instead of sw/f you would have prolly done better.But not using staff on lockdown build is pretty much a shot in the knee,yes GS is good spiking and good pressure,but staff gives you lot more defense,which is not so good in duels,but in conquest mode it is gold.

D/p thief with equal skill would always win guys,cause stealth. D/D ele rotations are predictable,which d/p thieves can exploit easly.What you describing is a incompetent d/p thief against good D/D ele.Cause good d/p thief would time his steal when ele has protection,good thief would time his backstabs when ele have no protection,thief have endless access to posion,ele cant see thief when he is on stealth so he cant really counter what I said above.So it is pretty much obvious.

I use s/p to clear camps and kill tower/keep lord solo….it is that good!
I even clear t3 camp with hylek/ogres solo with it.

Silv.9207:

A 15+ sec hide thief that say that wait for 3 sec a ranger in hide is too much… lol

Let me adjust your comment a bit:A low health low armor thief with 15+ sec hide that say that wait for 3 sec a higher health better armor ranger in hide is too much…lol

PS:Not my english level.xD

The only thing good about ranger is RF,and thats about it.The ranger playerbase is also very low,most of them are bad at pvp.

Equal skill? d/p thief cause ele d/d rotations are predictable.

Let it goooo let it goooooo kill the trolls right in the sourrrrrceee let it go lett it goo turn the lights and lock this poost I DONT CAREE what the OP gonna sayyyy..let this thread closed noww..trolls never bothered me anyway..

Gheez only yanks allowed? kitten

SilverWF.4789:

Tao.5096:

thieves are the squishiest with low HP pool class in game.

Bullsh… If some thieves playing like warriors – straightfoward – so, sure
But if thief playing like thief – this is nearly unkillable beast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmTybvMeAU4

Every proffesion have his cheese builds,SA thief is the cheese in thieves,doesnt mean stealth should get nerfed,you should know how to counter it(dodging cnds,posion,inturpt etc)

YEA I FEEL YOU PEW PEW, I REALLY AM.I FEEL THE LACK OF SKILL IN YOU.

Let’s remove sword and dagger and SB,that way thieves will bound to play p/p , seems more logical to what you said.

need to use the skill first right followed by a jump once you do return,youll stay in same pos.

Let’s see how creative you can be on troll builds :P

I think this is a very good troll build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZQQJAVVl0Mp3plOxwJ0PRBNBxZxPhXXRrA0dUKyQA-TxyHABCcFAEUdmd2fQGlIEpcYQVGKTTgZ6AKSJFAPCgnUCSKgqkGB-e

input?

mango.9267:

Junkpile.7439:

06620 is better. Mug doesn’t crit so it really doesn’t do kitten and sleight of hands only works in pillow fights.

Mug does ~2k damage and ~2k heal, which is very significant. Sleight of hand is one of the best traits thieves have.

06620 is even more limited than 26600 because you lose some sustain without mug, and you’ll lose one of your most reliable poison applications. 06620 will have no chance against bunkers/healbots/boon spammers, and will contribute slightly less to team fights than 26600 and much less than 20606.

Sandrox.9524:

This video dosnt say much tbh,he could downed you pretty much easly if after his backstab do HS followup+infi signet.You could say nuh-uh,but it is not the point,the point is he could have killed you easly.The good thing about your build is the boonrip,but other than fighting PU mesmers and cele elems,I dont see how does this build do better.One thing for sure tho,more sustain+larger inti is always welcome.

Well, in every duel, someone could kill me. If they don’t, it’s usually because either I’m playing better or my build is stronger. In this case, the reason he didn’t kill me is because my build was stronger. The extra initiative, boon strip, daze, vigor, lower cd mug, and more frequent gap closing all contribute to why 20606 D/D has the advantage over 26600 D/D.

That is why I said,this video dosnt say much.thing is,in that build,if another d/d 2/6/6 gets you by surprise,you’ll be dead in most cases,unlike yours.

I would like to point out that I used MTD with a power based build gs-s/f with DE and dmg on inturpt and while the condis do almost nothing,it still puts everyone on constant pressure which is very good.It makes my job of dpsing very easy.

So,im the only one who actually love… EXPLOSIONS,DRUM AND BASS,HOUSE,POP!?
.
.
.
.
and abit of indie music.

jenzie.4083:

Lockdown is really fun, especially if you team up with a thief, gotta be one of the more frustrating duos to fight.

You cant even imagine,how much it is frustrating. xD

messiah.1908:

Sandrox.9524:

messiah.1908:

in tpvp i have hard time versus thief. not so much p/d ones but in spvp i encounter some which if they surprise you in the middle of the fight they can take you down fast with 1 condi burst 5 torment 5 confusion poison 5 bleed weakness
but if you prepare for them the mesmer should have the upper hand (power or condi)

versus s/d or d/p thief its the hardest

in wvw most thieves are average or below it so i rarely have a problem with them

Are you sure we play the same game :o?

you mean you kill all thief no matter what the situation and what the builds?

About wvw.Cause all thieves with x/d are facerolling me.

mango.9267:

Sandrox.9524:

Im not sure you are right.Yes you can kill with 2/0/6/0/6 but 2/6/6/0/0 you get a hell lot more dmg,and not for using hidden killer,for using executioner.

The only scenario where 26600 would be better is if you only expect to land one burst. As I’ve said, 20606 has better sustain damage because you strip protection, apply more poison, gap close more often, and proc fire/air more easily. This is readily evident in the fact that 26600 won’t beat regen rangers, d/d eles, etc. of equal skill, whereas 20606 has a chance.

Sandrox.9524:

if so happens you get yourself in a mirror fight against another D/D thief playing 2/6/6 you will see why it is better imo.Think about the dmg HS can do with executioner or final backstab.

By your request, here’s a short video of my alt dueling my guildie, both using D/D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAYemuDmRLg

My alt is geared in exotic weapons/armor and yellow/green trinkets. My guildie is wearing full ascended. The first duel is my 20606 vs. his 26600. The second duel we’re both running 20606.

As you can see, 20606 has the advantage in a mirror D/D fight because of the daze, shorter cd steal (shorter cd mug), vigor, and easier fire/air proc’s. Even though I’m at a huge gear disadvantage, my build makes the fight much easier.

This video dosnt say much tbh,he could downed you pretty much easly if after his backstab do HS followup+infi signet.You could say nuh-uh,but it is not the point,the point is he could have killed you easly.The good thing about your build is the boonrip,but other than fighting PU mesmers and cele elems,I dont see how does this build do better.One thing for sure tho,more sustain+larger inti is always welcome.

Im not sure you are right.Yes you can kill with 2/0/6/0/6 but 2/6/6/0/0 you get a hell lot more dmg,and not for using hidden killer,for using executioner.if so happens you get yourself in a mirror fight against another D/D thief playing 2/6/6 you will see why it is better imo.Think about the dmg HS can do with executioner or final backstab.

glock.6590:

Yea id have to agree with endersluck. If you cant kill a thief with 5 people then you should unnistall this game for sure.

Although if he gains health in stealth its probably a shadow arts scrub. Dont bother with them.

Not ppl person are you?
every comment you making spreads hate.gheez…

messiah.1908:

in tpvp i have hard time versus thief. not so much p/d ones but in spvp i encounter some which if they surprise you in the middle of the fight they can take you down fast with 1 condi burst 5 torment 5 confusion poison 5 bleed weakness
but if you prepare for them the mesmer should have the upper hand (power or condi)

versus s/d or d/p thief its the hardest

in wvw most thieves are average or below it so i rarely have a problem with them

Are you sure we play the same game :o?

xiao.6794:

Sandrox.9524:

If you see a black and white bronze legend looking thief with bolt and inci from Gandara,please try to kill him and then /bow if you do :P great video !:P

hey i think i met her !
but i didnt win against her like i said as mesmer shatter u can’t kill a S/D thief if that guy playin that thief well…to much dodge and randon dodge to get a good burst on him…we made arround 3fights but shadow refuge…and its over ! to much dmg and can leave and inc so fast…kittenter its difficult so i think we should play PU or phantasm build to counter that build . its not impossible but just really difficult even i can down arround 20%life …“shadow refuge” and she can back full life.. lol

it was me,and you did well

matthen.5024:

The tPvP ones mentioned above are a pretty good to watch. For WvW action, I would just periodically click through the streams. There are some pretty decent thieves who I have seen streaming WvW… I just don’t know their names off the top of my head (note: they may have 5-10 viewers, so don’t limit your search to the top streamers).

Just cant find any :P

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Sandrox.9524:

Powermancer
Spectral
Terrormancer
MinionMaster
dhuumfire
and this is on top of my head builds,it have more,so Necro is in good spot.If we are talking about lack of builds you should check about Thief and Guardian sections.

Each one of these builds to a greater or lesser degree relies upon death shroud. There engineer builds that don’t rely on toolbelt, warrior builds that rely on burst, thief builds that don’t require stealth or steal etc etc..necromancer relys heavily on death shroud because it is the make shift, one size fits all for everything that it lacks. It is akin to going into your tool shed and throwing everything away and just having duck tape and super clue..nio matter what you do, it will always come back to those limited options. It makes necromancer stale and repetitive to play.

gw2: death shroud consumer
gw1: anti-melee
hex overload
melee support (iway)
minion master
energy battery
conditionstacker
e-denial
shut down (via spoil victor etc)

the previous offering had players create multiple roles and builds. The current offering just see’s players horde and drain death shroud in a rinse-repeat cycle.

Thief dosnt rely on either stealth and steal !?!?!
Mesmer who dosnt rely on clones?!
Engineer who uses only his weapon skills?
Warrior who dosnt use his burst skill/adrenalin for advantage?!

Bold statement,I would like you to prove it cause this is pure rubbish to me.

coglin.1867:

Jelzouki.4128:

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

No it doesn’t. What thief lacks, is thief players willing to play anything outside of stealth spam builds. Similarly Necro has a fair bit of diversity. You simply claim they do not. (See, I can claim my opinion as if it were fact, as easy as you can)

I can agree that some of the necromancers could use both trait line changes (changing some traits from one line to another), as well as trait changes. Then again, this can be said for every profession.

As I see it, the problem of build diversity is as much the players as anything else. As for example. Go to individual professional sub forums. When players start a new profession, they go to its corresponding sub forum, and ask for the meta builds. Instead of playing and experimenting with the profession to see what they find fun or what works for them. We have seen entire “metas” change between updates, with literally no changes added in game, simply because 2 high end PvP teams made a change. One team lost a player, and the other changed a build to adjust for the changed play in the first team. Viola, all of the sudden we had two build that were not “meta” that then were. The second problem, is that everyone wants to point fingers to demand changes to what would work for their build, regardless of what is fair, balanced, or who they screw over. Again, this is a player problem. Then conflicting opinions bash the devs and make post attacking Anet for what ever choice they do make.

The only different,that you claimed a very wrong,misguided opnion.thief have 1 build to every weapon set,as you can see that if you ask for thief build,it will say I use d/p,or I use S/D(most commons ones),the stealth thing is really dosnt matter cause it is not viable at tpvp in long shot.

Genlog.4983:

omg i stile cant belief how many QQ about ranger
thief is stile the best killing machine in pvp

its all about not being seen stab him bleed him do what ever you must cloak again
as long the ranger don’t use sic him

but a thief can always attack first so you always have the upper hand in fights

So true it hurts.Tho ranger have a skill that can get anyone out of the game from 1200m away.That is pretty strong aswell.

Jelzouki.4128:

Sandrox.9524:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”

Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.

Since you said that ‘’the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condi builds much’’ I say it is in the wrong traitline (… to be truly effective). I should have clarified that there is not any better traitline to place dhuumfire apart from Curses, but that probably would be out of balance and so not optional. Simply put; Im not a fan of dhuumfire and I wouldn’t use it because it is a Grandmaster trait in a traitline that demands too much from a condi build.

Every proffesion have its “wrongly placed traits”,but yet using them for the sake of the build.Condi PU memsers use a line that have no passive boosts to condi,but a minor trait that gives cond on clones death. that is the game made,dhuufire is very much viable to be meta,and to just be known.Bottom line is , necro dosn’t have lack of builds like guardians or thieves.

Thief lacks in build diversity but a guardian certainly does not. The only builds I can think of that are pretty terrible on guardian are signet and spirit build.

A guardian utilizes most of his weapon combinations, where as a necro is limited.

Weapons and builds are not the same.For a guard,in tpvp,you have one effective build which is tank that you can tweak a little,meaning you can say it have two tanking builds.But that is it,dps and condi guard are not close to viable in tpvp.And weaponset dosnt change that.

You sure you been in pvp once? cause guards need buff not nerf.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re nabbing Dhuumfire, you’re putting 6 points in the Condition duration line. How is that a waste for condition builds?

You mean, aside from the fact that there aren’t many usefull condition build traits in that traitline?

This is true. However, that does not suggest that Dhuumfire is in the wrong traitline. Rather the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condition builds much.

So it is in the wrong traitline.
You miss a lot of other traits you might need, if you need to put 6 points into Spite traitline. Having that extra condi duration is nice, but I think the dhuumfire aspect is not necessary. You build DS up too slow with s/d to make dhuumfire more effective than other condi build.

The traitline gives a valuable stat for condition builds. Ergo, any condition traits in that line are not “in the wrong traitline.”

Renewing Blast and Unholy Sanctuary can both be argued to be in the wrong traitline. Dhuumfire is not. The fact the rest of the line is not so helpful for condition builds is irrelevant to the fact Dhuumfire is in the proper location.

Since you said that ‘’the rest of the traitline doesn’t aid condi builds much’’ I say it is in the wrong traitline (… to be truly effective). I should have clarified that there is not any better traitline to place dhuumfire apart from Curses, but that probably would be out of balance and so not optional. Simply put; Im not a fan of dhuumfire and I wouldn’t use it because it is a Grandmaster trait in a traitline that demands too much from a condi build.

Every proffesion have its “wrongly placed traits”,but yet using them for the sake of the build.Condi PU memsers use a line that have no passive boosts to condi,but a minor trait that gives cond on clones death. that is the game made,dhuufire is very much viable to be meta,and to just be known.Bottom line is , necro dosn’t have lack of builds like guardians or thieves.

Somtimes it even shadowstep to yourself even if you targeted a flat place.

insaneseagull.7063:

Sandrox.9524:

insaneseagull.7063:

Spanny.9256:

lemme repeat that: your mind wrack needs to hit 3 separate times in order to accumulate the damage remotely similar to a thieves stealthed backstab.

It has to hit 3 times,indeed,but whereas a thief’s backstab only hits once you hit THREE times. You can negate a thief’s backstab,but alot harder negating all three shatters. Shatter is also AOE,a thieves backstab is not. A shatter can remove boons on hit (1 removed boon per illusion shattered,also AOE), a thief’s backstab does not.

Spanny.9256:

all the while you’re either kiting around with the glassiest stats ingame

Every mesmer has a health pool of around 19k health,a thief only has around 13k on average. I’m aware they have medium armor,thus slightly better stats, but they mostly have to choose on what they want to spend their initiative on,defense or offense.

Spanny.9256:

(and dont give me that “thieves have to do that too” argument because you and i both know well enough that thieves have more than enough mobility and stealth to get away from anything)

True,I agree on this,but we also have quite a few defensive skills to choose from as well,both on our utilities AND weapons. Plus traits (for ex. 3% less dmg per illusion out).
In fact,there’s a defensive skill on almost every weapon we have,plus 2 shatters which is defensive,and lots of utilities.

We are glass,but we have lots of defensive mechanisms/skills to make up for that. And,ofc,there’s the dodge button everyone can learn to use,at the right times,that is.

Mesmer isn’t sub-par to any class,no class is sub par to anyone. Sure,if you use META builds which everyone knows the “rotation” on and can counter easily you’ll feel quite sub-par but believe me,professions are what YOU make of them.

Comparing backstab to shatter,and with false points.Please comment yourself with the same picture.

Comparing backstab to shatter? LOL. I’m telling you that while you can negate the whole 6k BS from a thief, it’s alot harder to negate all the damage from the shatters,maybe you’ll hit 1/4 or 2/4 or even 3/4,meaning you’ll still deal good damage. I was trying to prove a point here.

And could you please tell me my false points?

I would not get to this pointless debate with you,you should know that shatter mesmer deliver spike so fast(to be effective),almost as backstab so one dodge covers all shatters in most cases and if not,dmg is 2k at most.if the clones are far away you may never hit with them since they can be killed before that or just too far away.I play thief alot,and when I see mesmer charge me with gs to melee range I excpect a shatter,or when he immoblize me with sword,I excpect a shatter,all the times they did it,I Dodged and got almost no dmg.

-thief got 15k health on average
-thief have boonstrips aswell-most of them uses 6 on trickery.and some uses s/d weaponset aswell.
-backstab is easier to land and have 4 sec cooldown while mindwrack have 10sec cooldown(if you spec for it)and need to build up clones.

If you see a black and white bronze legend looking thief with bolt and inci from Gandara,please try to kill him and then /bow if you do :P great video !:P

Easy,get a staff ele,put traits that buff dmg on fire and the one on air attunement which buffs dmg after certain health thershold,put down fiery gs and ice bow.

now you are ready. get the mob to a wall,cast meteor storm for 2 sec,use ice bow #4 skill,take the fiery gs and spin to win. would take 6s and you got the highest dmg in 6 sec.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Shaogin

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Necromancer_-_Dhuumfire

Condi build. Pretty well known fact actually. Maybe actually have some sort of idea as to what you’re talking about before making crazy claim? O.o

You consider metabattle the only resource for builds apparently. In fact you’re right that that build with scepter/staff is indeed a condi build, but there are more builds possible with the dhuumfire trait. And don’t discuss like a little kid pls.

So,actually,what you saying here is that Necro does have diversty in builds options hm……(?!)

Is things gonna be still contested? (waypoints would be blocked incase of attack?)

Vieux P.1238:

Sandrox.9524:

Vieux P.1238:

Fay.2357:

Vieux P.1238:

Chris McSwag.4683:

Daze and torment shatter spam works pretty well against thief, though i haven’t tried it on p/d yet.

For noob thieves, sure. Daze & all can work. Not that well if that thief knows how to play his toon. No matter what, Thief only need to set him self up for there quick kill rotation & your dead in 3 seconds. Done, cooked! In the other hand, you can play a staff mesmer that spams phase retreat all the time with tones of toughness but zero damages. You’l never kill but you’l prolly bug the hek outta of them.

Sounds to me as though you’re simply not experienced enough to understand the counters to simple skill rotations like that. Mesmers have an unparalleled amount of active defense; use it properly and you can negate the vast majority of burst damage.

…I’m still confused as to why you’re going on about burst thieves in a thread discussing P/D.

Sounds to me you dont know how to play a mesmer or how clunky it is. As i mentionned before no matter how much skills or abilities you have on the mesmer, the casting time makes it slow. By the time you get to your second skill, the thief is done & kills most often the mesmer. Why do you think ppl are complianing? Ill take thief speed or any other classes that have fast casting time over any mesmer skills. You sound like you get easally confuse my friend. Maybe you should try it more see how it goes before making an ignorent statement.

Sorry,while GS skills are slow,staff(cept autoattack)/sword/scepter and pistol skills all are fast cast.all mantras are instant cast after you load them,only phantasms skills require cast time.

I dont see how slow,mesmers are,maybe the issue here is that you havent really mastered yet the basic gw2 mechanic as in how skills work.You might wanna play gw2 more cause it seems you are new.

Mantra is barely viable since last patch. Phantasm build are more 1v1 focus & the only true viable is a shatter build.

Sword/scepter & pistol skill all have a minimum of 1 second cast or longer. Anoth for anyone one with an instant interrupt like the thief or even better, the warriors hammer. Theres no escape from a 15 second stun or immobilization no matter how many instant condi removal you have with your mantra. Once the mesmer is hit in that warriors hammer rotation, the mesmer is stuck & done for. End of story! & i’ve tried everything from casting frenzy & all. Your chances are slim if your unable to cast your skills. Making the Mesmers skills instant like the rest of the classes would dramatically turn the table. Why do you think PU build was so strong before the patch? Cuz of aegis when you turned invisible. The invisibility did not give you the advantage, aegis did making you immune for that one moment giving you anoth time to use your skills with out interruption. Put it anyway you want, wont change the fact that Mesmer has bin back slap becuz of players from other classes complaining they wher to OP.

Not the aegis,the perma protection.Mantras are viable enough to use at most two of them.And you can chain daze/stun 5x better than warrior hammer rotations..
thief range auto attacks have cast times like mesmer range auto attacks,scepter dont have any cast time part of auto attack,thief shortbow have cast times.
thieves have inti,that is far much harder than skills on cooldown.So it pretty much balances out.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Stop taking my godkitten profession specific mechanic away from me when I enter PvP and I’ll be happy… That is honestly all I care. Building up Life Force is not easy unless you’re built to do it. Which means we start every match as a cripple until we get at least 20 – 30% LF generated. I’m sorry but no matter how you put it, this is completely unfair to me. Start us off with a minimum of 20% Life Force and I’ll be content. Draining it to 0 is completely stupid and I shouldn’t have to sacrifice minions or staff AA someone a dozen times to use what’s central to my profession.

As for PvE, yes we’re definitely lacking and I’d support a rework. But we’re not incapable of doing PvE we’re just not top tier. If we join a dungeon it’ll go about 1minute slower. It’s not like we can’t finish the dungeon or like it’ll take ten times longer.

How you manage your life force is really not even close to a good excuse to buff necro

As much as you can if you are on that build.2000+ is more than enough.

Vieux P.1238:

Fay.2357:

Vieux P.1238:

Chris McSwag.4683:

Daze and torment shatter spam works pretty well against thief, though i haven’t tried it on p/d yet.

For noob thieves, sure. Daze & all can work. Not that well if that thief knows how to play his toon. No matter what, Thief only need to set him self up for there quick kill rotation & your dead in 3 seconds. Done, cooked! In the other hand, you can play a staff mesmer that spams phase retreat all the time with tones of toughness but zero damages. You’l never kill but you’l prolly bug the hek outta of them.

Sounds to me as though you’re simply not experienced enough to understand the counters to simple skill rotations like that. Mesmers have an unparalleled amount of active defense; use it properly and you can negate the vast majority of burst damage.

…I’m still confused as to why you’re going on about burst thieves in a thread discussing P/D.

Sounds to me you dont know how to play a mesmer or how clunky it is. As i mentionned before no matter how much skills or abilities you have on the mesmer, the casting time makes it slow. By the time you get to your second skill, the thief is done & kills most often the mesmer. Why do you think ppl are complianing? Ill take thief speed or any other classes that have fast casting time over any mesmer skills. You sound like you get easally confuse my friend. Maybe you should try it more see how it goes before making an ignorent statement.

Sorry,while GS skills are slow,staff(cept autoattack)/sword/scepter and pistol skills all are fast cast.all mantras are instant cast after you load them,only phantasms skills require cast time.

I dont see how slow,mesmers are,maybe the issue here is that you havent really mastered yet the basic gw2 mechanic as in how skills work.You might wanna play gw2 more cause it seems you are new.

any wvw roamers streaming?