Guild Wars 2

Sebrent.3625:

The fact that you think you can get an overall look from the first 3 sentences… especially enough to then reply to the entire post… shows levels of disrespect, ego, and likely ignorance that are deplorable.

That coupled with your view on Ranger damage versus Thief damage illustrates that we’re not going to be able to have an actual conversation with you leveraging facts and logic.

If you think making an ability that can be used at most once every 8 seconds (and channels for 2.5s … so damage every 10.5s) suddenly makes the Ranger’s damage far superior to the Thief’s, then you obviously aren’t looking at any numbers.

Additionally, since people are doing just fine in sPvP with Berserker Longbow Rangers shooting at them while they cap a point … those same skilled people should be fine in WvW where they don’t have to stand on a point.

Again,sorry if I offending anyone,im not trying to be the things you said,I ment that the first 3 sentences is what my reply for.The general concept of those 3 sentences is that rangers “suck” before patch so my reply was only for these lines.

If you think that there is no point in arguing about it,it is your decision to make.So I will make it short.All I can say that in test of time,rangers WILL kill the same opponet thieves have,much faster,and from long range.

About pvp,all I do is tpvp after reaching Gold invader in wvw,and my bitterness is only cause of that not to mention that many ppl complaining in HoTM /m chat,but I dont mind them cause this it is going on in every slightly buff.
P.S
Your signature is so true :>

First,you haev a very well geared charr,it is hard these days to see a well looking non heavy armor charr.
Secondly,Shadow art is godmode really,and you manage to crit alot with it.Are you assassin/zerk gear mix?

FrouFrou.4958:

Sounds like you refuse to adapt, you complain because your build has so far worked perfectly against everything else and now that there is one thing that may be able to counter your build.. You call for a nerf. Hurdur.

You are correct!
I call for a nerf cause it dosnt matter which build im on,if a ranger caught you by surprise,you are dead.Even if thief catch you by surprise,you can manage.Against ranger you are helpless.

X Factor.2641:

Sandrox.9524:

X Factor.2641:

Oh this is funny…

What strikes me as even funnier is that even some ranger players are saying things like “Good rangers even know Machine Gun Ranger is too OP”… that’s funny. Laugh with me quick, hahahaha.

Anyway, my ranger is my main. Created him a few weeks after release and was my first toon. A few months into playing him I realized just how much the how for the ranger sucked compared to other class builds.

Now who is QQing? ranger wasnt “suck” in compare to others,he was decent any good ranger player would tell you that. so please Laugh with me quick,hahahahahaha.

Can’t help but smile at how you cleverly tried to take my quote out of context. If you would have had the patience to continue reading you would note that I continue to say I still use him and have no problems with the ranger even before patch. But if you seriously think that rangers were as good as any other class… well you need to ask no one other than the wvw-ers what they thought of ranger viability.

Also you will note (if you would have bothered to read) that I said my ranger eats other classes for breakfast… but I mean if you think I’m complaining about that then I’m not sure you understand how the game works.

But yes before rangers were “underprivelaged” and now… well now people are just a little hurt in the rear because lb rangers aren’t the squishy powerless targets they used to be… Now they’re just squishy targets… That I still eat for breakfast

P.S. Being “decent” is not the same as being as good as any other class so by definition you are agreeing that rangers were underpowered compared to other classes..

First of all,sorry if I offended you in some way.Secondly,I indeed didnt bothered to read all of your essay since the first 3 sentences pretty much gave me an overall look at you.

About wvw,you should ask wvw-ers roamers in about a week,what are thier thought about the sniping machine-gunners that roam now instead of every other class.I dont need to be a prophet to tell you the answer.

I do agree that rangers were on the VERY LOW food chain,but it dosnt mean Anet should bump them to the top of the food chain in instant.They waaay capable of killing any proffesion in matter of seconds,I dont care how much the other guy is skilled in his game,fact is that the dmg output of a ranger>>>>>>>>>thief which is stupid,cause thieves are squishiest and by anet words:“proffesion who have lots of dmg output will have less durability”
Anet and thier big words

Agree 100% I learned to embrace anet hate towards us.

Necrotize.2974:

Sandrox.9524:

AND IF YOU ARE A GOD kitten MESMER WHO DOSNT HAVE STABILITY AND JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN WITH THIS kittenG GAME?

Stealth, reflect, distortion or one of the several interrupts will make short work of them. Mesmers can abuse one of the 3 most fatal flaws of longbow rangers. LoS and multiple targets. Stealth, clones and teleports lets you move in and out of LoS more, clones make great meatshields and distractions, and reflects will eat most noob Lb rangers alive since most don’t seem to think its worth interrupting their rapid fire when it’s all coming straight back at them. But really…stun them. Most of them only have 1 stun break and some of them don’t have any for whatever reason.

First of all,thank you for trying to help.
Lets deal with what you said one by one:

1.RF if you havent noticed yet->follows stealth.

2.reflect->mesmers reflects are tend to not contributing the builds meaning if I run shatter,first thing i need to be mobile,hence portal,blink and free slot,now you can argue that the free slot can be feedback but than you miss one of the best mesmers skills which is decoy which handles almost every proffesion except ranger atm.other reflects needed to spec for them(traits) which ruin your typical shatter build.

3.Distortion->the only thing which helps apart from dodges,but have very long cd and I tend to secure stomps with it or get out of sticky situations so I wont having it all the time.

4.Inturrpt->This is a very good thing to do,if you see the ranger before the inital attack.Otherwise you just kittened.

5.all other arguments are really not reliable since clones are very low health+not spawn or be where you want them to act as a meatshield.And as I said before,stunning them really depends on alot of things which is see them first,or get the daze timed right.

LOL that necro in the end…poor sod,3 rangers firing squad even full DS didnt helped him:D

Ross Biddle.2367:

This is in no way helpful but is totally relevant to this discussion. Listen with sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wHNh-rqjLk

I believe listening to this while you tPvP will inspire you to 100% more victories vs lb rangers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RrpGgaT5kk

HAHAHAHA

watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MNxzomLBkw

Chokolata.1870:

No it wasnt. It was barely in the meta game. And its spirits,thats 1 build.

sword evade condi build aswell
like thief that have two working builds d/p and s/d so had ranger.Mesmer got two viable builds aswell→phantasm and shatter..

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I slot in masterful reflection on adept major trait, and it works well with IP distortion (some people on forum said there’s bug of not working, but I’m having success in this so I’m not sure). Just today I downed a careless ranger with it. To be fair though I fought him a bit so his hp is low enough that he downed himself before reacting to quickness RF. Slot in illusionary invigoration, and you’ll have another shot at reflecting if he tries to wear you out for later PBS+RF combo.

Gear wise both of you must be having zerker gear to reach 15k damage. Maybe swap to knight trinkets first while you’re adjusting to LB attack cycle? Zerk rangers are quite squishy towards shatter and knight is sufficient enough to hurt them.

Main thing about fighting LB ranger is to avoid their cc. Generally they’ll try to use PBS or pet immobilize/fear to prevent you from dodging, and this can become quite predictable. If they don’t even use cc then great, save your dodges at the right time. LB can be quite clumsy in close range so they’ll try to draw their distance. Try to stay close to him using blink, that’s the main gap closer I used when facing LB ranger. Close range also reduce LB auto by a lot, eventually he’ll swap his weapon if you push him hard enough.

The CC is the easy part,I know what is gonna be,the tricky part is when they come out of nowhere,and barrage you.I havent got this problem before patch.I am a full shatter and such,I can deal with all classes till date,problem is now those rangers somtimes picking me off and I ONLY die cause of them on even play-meaning,1v1 on point or when you 1v1 someone and the ranger come to aid.I’ll try switch to it though this is really bad iff i need to switch my traits for it.Btw,looking at the vid,it seems he specced up specially for dealing those rangers what he said about gap closing is true,but what he dosnt showed is at tpvp,which you bound to stay on point or close to it.

Kudos Fox,loved the video,now it will be much easier to deal with em :P
felt bumping this thread cause some ppl think rangers were bad before,which they werent as bad as this zerkbow buff given.

Solandri.9640:

Sandrox.9524:

Now who is QQing? ranger wasnt “suck” in compare to others,he was decent any good ranger player would tell you that. so please Laugh with me quick,hahahahahaha

Ranger was voted suckiest profession in the official Anet poll. That’s why they were first getting their skills and balance tweaked.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Vote-for-the-Profession-Collaborative-Development/first

For our upcoming CDI projects, we would like to collect your ideas for professions that need balancing. Since there are 8 professions, we would like to do one at a time and would like you to vote on which one comes first.

Please pick the three professions that you feel need the most help right now and list them in order of priority like so:

Example
1. Profession1 (this needs the most help by far)
2. Profession2 (this needs help, but not more than 1)
3. Profession3 (this needs help, but not more than 1 & 2)

Then at the end:

Everyone, thank you for voting!

After tallying the vote up (and yes, removing repeats), Ranger will be our topic for the first CDI thread.

Ofc,but it was still decent PVP WISE

dude.Bolt sunrise/twilight

Myabe it is l2p issue,but I find zerkbow rangers really pain in the kitten in terms of tpvp,cause they just pop up of nowhere and unlish this skill Rapid Fire with quickness,and because feedback or the focus trait are not viable,I dont have viable reflect skill,and neither do block + I cant use stealth cause it follows you on stealth,so im getting 15k health down in instant jsut because a kitteng ranger came from behind and snipe me.
And now every tpvp match there is at least two zerkbow rangers shockly.

How can you handle them as a shatter mesmer?
I mostly use the usual blink decoy portal/null-field

AND IF YOU ARE A GOD kitten MESMER WHO DOSNT HAVE STABILITY AND JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN WITH THIS kittenG GAME?

X Factor.2641:

Oh this is funny…

What strikes me as even funnier is that even some ranger players are saying things like “Good rangers even know Machine Gun Ranger is too OP”… that’s funny. Laugh with me quick, hahahaha.

Anyway, my ranger is my main. Created him a few weeks after release and was my first toon. A few months into playing him I realized just how much the how for the ranger sucked compared to other class builds.

Now who is QQing? ranger wasnt “suck” in compare to others,he was decent any good ranger player would tell you that. so please Laugh with me quick,hahahahahaha.

This is ridicolous,before patch we barly seen rangers in tpvp,I mean,from time to time you could see rangers,but now,after the patch,all I can see in every match is at least two rangers and guess what setup they are? ZERKBOW!!!!!

what? prolly the best condi cleanse we have with the trait :P

Calypso.2578:

Sandrox.9524:

Calypso.2578:

What do you do 1v1 against S/D thief?

What do you do 1v1 against power/phantasm mesmer?

Do you have to change runes/sigils/weapons if you know you are going to face the above classes/builds in a 1v1?

(PS: I really liked the guy screaming “PULL OUT THE GOD CARD” @ 3:57 in the video.)

S/D thief is always about timing your hits,using diverson.and time your chaos strom+ileap.
phantasm mesmer is tricky but best thing is to out-stealth him,and excute your shatter burst perfectly,and never let him get more than 1 phantasm up(try to kill the phantasms).But they are both hard matchups indeed.

It is so stupid that necro have staff #4 skill that it is better than any condi removal we have….and the cd is lower than all our condi cleanses(not including the mantra)..

Okay, so you’re saying outstealth – do you mean to take decoy, veil, mass invis and torch?

The mesmer I couldn’t beat had half knight’s gear and used greatsword, sword/pistol. I started with same weapons, I’m zerk. I switched to staff vs using greatsword. It seemed like he could generate phantasms faster than I could kill them. Should I switch weaps/sigs/runes? Change some gear out to get some more survivability? I thought a bit and came up with two main ways to try to beat the build:

1.) Tank the phantasms and focus my phants/shatters on the player. Try to take out phantasms if they’re close by him. I can’t tank his phants for very long without changing to tankier gear.

2.) Outstealth him – except the duelist can track me in stealth and it eats away at my health. He can constantly summon his phantasms. I have problems focusing damage on one phantasm to kill it while another phantasm is downing me. It’s definitely tough to beat a build where the AI is constantly after me and he is is stealth/feels tanky.

Nah,I mean,for instance,when i see gs memser,before encounter I use decoy so he couldnt excute his izerker at me,and immidiatly panics him with fake ileap or somthing(depends on your weapons set) I for instance using sw/torch-GS and use decoy than izerker right after,if the mesmer enters stealth aswell I switch to torch and use the stealth after 1 s. Out-stealth meaning get the mesmer visible while you on stealth,dosn’t mean get every stealth skill mesmer have.

SlimChance.6593:

Looking over the other professions “on dodge” traits. None of them directly affect the class mechanic like the Mesmer’s.

Guardian – Selfless Daring (Heals nearby allies)
Warrior- Reckless Dodge (Damage foes)
Engineer – Evasive Powder Keg (Creates a bomb)
Ranger – Companion’s Defense (Give protection)
Ranger – Evasive Purity (Remove blind and poison)
Thief – Expeditious Dodger (Gain swiftness)
Thief – Feline Grace (Gain endurance)
Thief – Fleet of Foot (Remove cripple and weakness)
Thief – Power of Inertia (Gain might)
Thief – Uncatchable (Leave caltrops behind)
Elementalist – Evasive Arcana (Create an attunement-based spell)
Elementalist – Stop, Drop, and Roll (Remove burning and chilled)
Mesmer – Deceptive Evasion (Create a clone)
Necromancer – Mark of Evasion (Leave a Mark of Blood)

Should DE ever been?

I think the extra dodge on thief affect the mechanic,and the elems EA is affecting aswell.

Calypso.2578:

What do you do 1v1 against S/D thief?

What do you do 1v1 against power/phantasm mesmer?

Do you have to change runes/sigils/weapons if you know you are going to face the above classes/builds in a 1v1?

(PS: I really liked the guy screaming “PULL OUT THE GOD CARD” @ 3:57 in the video.)

S/D thief is always about timing your hits,using diverson.and time your chaos strom+ileap.
phantasm mesmer is tricky but best thing is to out-stealth him,and excute your shatter burst perfectly,and never let him get more than 1 phantasm up(try to kill the phantasms).But they are both hard matchups indeed.

It is so stupid that necro have staff #4 skill that it is better than any condi removal we have….and the cd is lower than all our condi cleanses(not including the mantra)..

I have like 5 different sets and 3 different types of all mesmer weapons and playing with 3 -4 different builds.Indeed mesmer have a lot of creativty options.

I hate those memsers who pop up izerker only to get a fast clone to shatter…(and the zerker dosnt even hit anyone yet) or PU cond mesmers who pm ,me whenI run away from them saying how much noob I am ..(that last bit is a bit specific xD)

Hahha amazing video Joe,though I have a question:
What do you do when facing a condi heavy spammer?

Absconditus.6804:

You should try give us a bit more information. Did you get conditions on you a lot? Such as Torment, Confusion, Vulnerability, Bleeds. If you did, it was a hybrid most likely. Did the Mesmer have Protection, Aegis, Regen up a lot? If so they used PU. There’s a few options to be had in Shatter builds.

Also, GS + Sw/P is pretty common for Shatter builds.

I think he ment S-for Scepter.
And how can you lose to a mesmer as p/d thef you got more cond cleanses than a mesmer…

Long time coming really..thank god the mesmer community gave a decent feedback or as some narrow-minded ppl calls it: “QQ”.
PU mesmers are just stupidly OP..and dont say you can avoid them in WvW cause you can’t when they sitting on a camp or attacking it while you there..they just roamed the bl and really ppl just run away from them or get killed by follishly attacking them,that is no way of playing this game,so this “nerf” and by "" I mean that is not a huge one,was loooong time coming.

Mckeone.9804:

If you wanted to build a pure point holder, what about something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8dlknpStlqxDNMrRCvRYuhTv+Fiu6SFA-TZxGwAAOCAr2f4ZZABXEACPAAA

The phantasmal defender would have 34k health, and that plus moa would let you hold a 1v2 for a decent amount of time. The reflects from warden could pretty useful on maps like temple or foefire where people like to sit back and snipe. And at least sword would give you decent boon stripping and the invul every 9.5s.

Although, if you really just want to hold points, I think a guard, turret engie, or bunk hambow would be much more effective.

I dont want to hold a point in the whole duration of the match,i want to play as a memser,but when the time comes when you need to hold a point you’ll do that.

@Chaos, I think I will change MoRe for NullField since it is my usual condi cleanser aswell.One more thing,gs and focus are good for decap,I planning on holding a point,but OH sword give me access to a nice dmg block or daze if needed(love using it on thieves).

Thank you guys for all the replies!
I want to be able to hold a point with or without temmates,mostly 1v1.
I usually can fight on point with the usual lockdown against hambows and d/d elems,but I wanted somthing more,to be able to stay long enough even in 1v2 hambow warriors on a point.

unlucky.9285:

I already know how thieves work. it changes nothing and I have been doing the frenzy shatter thing but it doesn’t kill them its usually easily evaded by them actually then they just stealth steal burst win… or stealth run away heal burst win -.-..

do it while dazing them with MoD or F3

I often forced to get off points cause of CC’s and pressure.

Now,I love lockdown build very much and trying to use a build that gives a decent dmg but alot of point control.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8clknpMtFpxGNcrNipxY6biJHSFQpbZ8FA-TZhFwAAOIAw2fIxVA4wDAYaZAA
I am even considering going full mantra with stability/stun break mantra instead of blink.
Any changes,or “WTF is this cr4p” are all welcome ! please hit me with all the guns you have!

Coulter.2315:

Sandrox.9524:

Well,fighting thieves with PU is pretty much easy and good for practice.

If its easy it isn’t good practice.

it is good for beginners.to understand the mesmer mechanic and how thieves work.

TogoChubb.3984:

Thieves are definitely the hardest fight you will encounter in GW2. IMO nothing competes with the mobility, blinds, consistent burst dmg, and access to stealth. Forgot to mention they don’t have any cooldowns on attack skills, therefore, you have to understand their stealth to have a chance to beat them. The best advice I can give you is to dodge roll 3 seconds after they stealth. This is a guess but they have to come out of stealth by 4 seconds so it gives you time to see them and counter their attack. Use blocks after dodge roll, utilize your immob with main hand sword, and don’t forget about the F3 skill if you are playing shatter and you take the trait to allow yourself to shatter. The F3 skill will stun a thief and interrupt their shadow step or heal. This is great to ensure your shatter lands for max dmg.

Here are some vids of several different ways I have dealt with thieves in the past. Please note that my playstyle is more reactive and therefore I use a lot of blocks to weaken enemies before I attack. Also, please note that I am by no means an expert at beating thieves, however, once you understand them better you can stand a better chance of winning.

dodge roll to blurred frenzy
http://youtu.be/kIuLiRHB4UE?t=7m58s

Scept 2 on spinning thief
http://youtu.be/kIuLiRHB4UE?t=3m52s

Fight with Test thieves – running for my life.
http://youtu.be/dwj_uZDtAUs?t=8m40s

Shatter vid – def watch at 2:30 fighting a thief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_EQTI6VTR4&list=UUnIrOfuurog3fhylpEOJTqQ

Power/crit phantasm mesmer fight against thief
http://youtu.be/maVS9zYIgYg?t=10m36s

I am starting to move on from GW2 since WvW has been so neglected (only exception is the amazing fix to culling), but if you need help with a build or have any questions just PM me here or leave a message on my youtube channel.

Well,fighting thieves with PU is pretty much easy and good for practice.

Prysin.8542:

@aluren
Arguing that “if you spend 2-3 sec spamming aa torment is cleansed you’ve wasted 2-3sec” is like those arguing that you can dodge glassbow ranger AA to avoid 4k auto attacks. Sure you can, however it is a Auto Attack. If you cleanse the mesmer will instantly reapply and most likely nuke you with a million confusion stacks while at it. Any effect or output on a AA without a caveat is extremely strong.

Case in point – warrior sword AA. No probs keepin up 800bleed/sec even in celestial. Wanna kite the warrior? Sword 2 + zerk stance says “not happening anytime soon”.

Torment on AA would be great and fair IF there was a requirement. However the way mesmer works you got three choices, move, not move and eat shatter, run. With torment option 1 and 3 is gone. Use rune of torment + lemongrass and you instantly get 4-5 sec torment per attack

lol,if the warrior will hacve to waste zerk stance on AA it means it is broken.

Aluren.1896:

I agree with Feaduin and FunkyBassline. Though I could copy and paste my response from the Mesmer Poll: Scepter Auto Attack Torment post from Chaos Archangel, I’ll just do a summary instead.

People are following this belief that we will be able to keep up 3 scepter clones that will keep up torment stacks. This is in part to Helseth who made a video showing 3 scepter clones auto attacking a golem. If you are able to keep up 3 clones constantly, why is every mesmer not running signet of the ether that has much higher sustainability than ether feast? Because in practice, you will never have this optimum set up unless you are facing AFK people. Are you going to only stay in scepter to have this maximum uptime? No, of course not. Lets say that it is not the clones who have the high uptime in torment stacking but the mesmer. Really you are spending 2-3 seconds spamming auto attacks to get 2 stacks of torment that will last 2 seconds after your chain. What happens if they have any condition removal? You just wasted 2-3 seconds doing nothing and that is assuming that your opponent isn’t doing anything this whole time.

Really it is very disappointing to keep hearing some iteration of “Helseth said so” for all the reasons that Feaduin pointed out.

What does it matter if you mainting clones or not ?!?! it requires one AA from a clone to apply dmg better than any other clone in our ar-[s]-enal.You can spam clones all day and kite ppl and kill them like that without using any attack of your own!

Justin.5231:

I personally think it’s an awesome buff. We currently only have 2 ways of applying torment: Scepter 2 (hoping they attack us when we use it) and a grandmaster trait. So we really don’t have that many ways of applying a really cool condition in my opinion. I think it will be a lot more fun and give people a reason to use scepter more often. I have ran scepter for a long time anyway, so I am glad one of my main weapons just happens to be getting an extra effect.

Torment is unique condition that was first interduced for necros,it is extreamly stupid that mesmers apply it like common bleed,and even better spammable than warrior sword AA thanks to the clones….this is broken….much broken…you shouldnt have it more than the scepter 2..the trait is okish since it forces you to use other build,but the AA is just stupid.

Well,I ususally get on corners and wait for them and than i just use diversion+chaos strom switch to w/e dps spec you have->if it is gs ill use mirror blade + mind wrack if it is sword->dodge-> blurred frenzy->+mindwrack and if you have mantra of distraction charged up use it while you doing the dmg.

It is hard,cause the main issue is PU,not the scepter changes.But since Anet does nothing to PU,I would choose NO.

Feaduin.7603:

Sandrox.9524:

And I dont think i need to change my build or utilites for fighting a kitten PU mesmer.

Why should anyone care about your opinion on Blackwater variants then? If you are running a build that is weak vs a certain spec and refuse to reconsider your build/tactics and then repeatedly have trouble with said spec… well you deserve what you get. If I’m roaming and I know that I’m going to run into a build that is a soft counter for my current spec, I swap weapons and utilities or try to avoid that group/individual, I don’t come to the forums and complain about their builds because I refuse to adapt my tactics and thus loose. It took me forever to figure out how to fight a P/D condition thief with reliable success, but I figured it out by changing my build and utilities until something clicked. It does not matter if you have respect for a build or not, if its on the scene you either adapt to it or accept your fate but don’t refuse to adapt then QQ.

Wuuut?
You took what I said to the extreme.You dont expect every encounter in wvw to be pu mesmer.I have a condi cleanse,but i wont have ALL THE POSSIBLE CONDI CLEANSES.And yes,even if Ii see a PU mesmer or,like you said,P/D thief,ok I will just tell him “can you wait a bit? I need to change my build and utitlites for you” sure man sure.

Now if anet would have given us proper condi cleanse,I would’nt complain,but instead they buffing THEM!

Feaduin.7603:

Sandrox.9524:

Yes,you can dodge it…ofc…but you will not be able to dodge it all the time since it got low cooldowns,and by the time the PU mesmer would use it again you will be dead.
Point is,you can’t kill a average pu condi mesmer.GS #1 would not tickle them,izerker would not hit them(stealth,protection,aegis).So it all come to this,unless you are using mirror build like the pu cond mesmer,you will not be able to beat it.And if you do,please share a video that I could learn from.Or at least give me some good tips and not GS #1 like you fighting a moa.

For a power phantasm build (In my experience GS Sw/Pistol):
1. Mind your range, clone death traits have limited radius (240) so you can safely clear out some clones if you don’t get too close.
2. When the Mesmer is glowing purple and holding his scepter over his face, don’t attack him.
3. Bring Mantra of Renewal with Mender’s Purity and maybe another condition clear.
4. When he uses the Prestige, count to 3 and either blink away, dodge, or use Blurred Frenzy to avoid the condition burst from the reveal.
5. If you feel like your defenses are getting overwhelmed, kite the fight to a new area and force him to regenerate all his clones.
6. When he shoots a giant purple beam at you, dodge or have a condition clear ready for the confusion.

IDK I feel like “Blackwater” variants are a dime a dozen in WvW roaming, but you quickly learn that they have a very limited bag of tricks. You almost never see these Mesmers in rated sPvP matches, but if you do don’t be afraid to kite off point while they are invisible since they won’t be de-capping it either. Just move off point, AoE the clones, move back on point.

in that process you’ll do to him 0 dmg.That actually what happens all the time the fight get endlessly untill I just go away or trying very hard to kill him and die in the process.And I dont think i need to change my build or utilites for fighting a kitten PU mesmer.

Why you left Gandara ? :<

Titus.2085:

Sandrox.9524:

not enough cond cleanse,other condi specs will eat you(necro,thief).

Mesmers have multitude but in a build where our said profession has the most awkward way to remove conditions, that’s the best way to address them. Also if you’re implying Null Field, that skill only removes 5 conditions while the Runes of Lyssa does the same at an instant, with added benefits.

Yes,but to do that it requires you to waste your elite.And lets say you do that,after that you have only 2 cond cleanse for 20 sec cd which in that time condis would kill you.

Titus.2085:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpMtNqxTNcrRysBZqOcqdg6kslYWyAkMA-TJRFwAw2fAwTAIaZAFnCAA

My theory-ish shatter condition mesmer falls in line of 0/4/2/2/6. Initially it was going to be a 0/4/4/0/6 but the changes upcoming at the September Feature Patch, the scepter will have more presence in the battlefield as well as no needing to put anymore in the Chaos line.

Everything here is, of course, shatter based in hopes of giving stacks of confusion and torment to opponents. My skills alone are still shatter based and I feel comfortable giving them shatter-based utility skills (especially Blink) as they’re all clone producing as well as stun breaks. Now why I didn’t put in Null Field to cover a mesmer’s natural weakness? I’ll explain that.

The traits are 0/4/2/2/6.

Aside from the Domination V Crippiling Dissipation (and even that is more of a small niche than necessary), there’s no need to put any points there.

The Dueling line will receive a heck lot of traits. I placed in Duelings V (Desperate Decoy) and X (Deceptive Evasion). The former gives me a nice last minute defense if my health is low and the latter will produce me more clones. And Deceptive Evasion is a centerpiece in any shatter build, power based or condition based.

Initially, it was going to be 4 points in the Chaos line. However, the scepter gained a massive boost, especially with its autoattack torment. The staff gained a great boost as well but this build is meant to shatter. This means that staff clones won’t live long and our main source of damage may come from torment and confusion. Now there’s 2 points in the Chaos line. So without putting anything much in the Chaos line, I immediately grabbed the Chaos V (Delibitating Dissipation) as anyone bold enough to destroy my clones will immediately punished.

I placed 2 more points in the Inspiration line and this is where I get my first set of condition removal. Inspiration IV (Mender’s Purity) gives me a small boost of my healing as it now remove two conditions for me.

The remaining points now rest in the important Illusions line. I grabbed Illusions V (Master of Misdirection), VIII (Illusionary Invigoration), and XIII (Maim the Disillusioned). Illusions V gives a condition boost as it inflict confusion per shatter. Illusion XIII gives torment as well. Now some might grab VII (Illusionary Elasticity) instead of VIII. But my build is scepter center while the staff serve as a defense whenever the situation calls for it. Plus with Illusions VIII, it gives a threatening boost so if my health goes down to 50%, I can immediately counter by producing more clones and then shatter them.

My weapons are obvious. Staff and Scepter+Torch but I can exchange it with Scepter+Pistol if need be.

The sigils are rather straightforward. If using staff, bleeding will be the main source of condition damage so I grabbed the Sigil of Earth. The Sigil of Energy is needed so that I can evade more. More evades mean more clones. More clones mean more opportunities to shatter.

The Runes of Lyssa are simply defensive and serve as more means to have condition removal. I can use Mass Invisibility and not only I go stealth, I remove a bunch of conditions for me.

The choice of armor stat is Rabid’s set. Toughness, Precision, Condition Damage.

This is my theory craft for a shatter condition mesmer. Any thoughts, opinions, constructive criticism?

not enough cond cleanse,other condi specs will eat you(necro,thief).

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Just let it happen. Just accept it. That is what I think about it.

ANet has an internal testing team, it passed. Does it make sense? I don’t know. I do not care.
But please, the whining about this is so bad, that the mesmer community is drowning in bad PvP players tears.

The last time I saw so much whine was when I went to France.

Well done sir,you made me giggle a bit.

Wyrden.4713:

Sandrox.9524:

Wyrden.4713:

if u r a bunker, u rly shouldnt have problems w a pu condi mesmer atking u, just try not to stay on his clone deaths range

well till scepter clones get torment aa that is, idk how its gonna work out afterwards

I think he ment that the PU mesmer act like bunker while he is a non pu mesmer solo attacking it.

Your,how-to-deal a PU mesmer so false,keep firin 1 gs at him while confusion,torment from blocks kills you.GG.+ PU mesmers have almost perma protection + much more stealth.and those phntasms izerker will die quickly cause they kill clones which delivers condition.and iswordsman is a joke to perma protection mesmer who stealth alot.

u can dodge the block, it has a 1 s aftercast after it has blocked

and u ever seen iZerker manage atking twice against aoe based enemys? like d/d ele, or hambow, pu condi mes, etc

Yes,you can dodge it…ofc…but you will not be able to dodge it all the time since it got low cooldowns,and by the time the PU mesmer would use it again you will be dead.
Point is,you can’t kill a average pu condi mesmer.GS #1 would not tickle them,izerker would not hit them(stealth,protection,aegis).So it all come to this,unless you are using mirror build like the pu cond mesmer,you will not be able to beat it.And if you do,please share a video that I could learn from.Or at least give me some good tips and not GS #1 like you fighting a moa.

Chaos.3579:

ileap was not buffed. it was simply fixed. now its reliable (need to test before we really know). however even with the change to ileap it still is completelly uselss because iswap has been nerfed to hell(cant swap when clone is dead). our assurety that iswap would work 100% (assuming enemy does not get out of range/dodges) is gone while that nerf remains.
and our “juke” mobility needing skill, set up, and having tons of restrictions that no other mobility skill on any other class has is also totally useless in the process.

anet should revert their nerf to iswap. or follow through with their logic and nerf every other leap in the game so they match their tool tip “leap at your FOE”

no more leaping at empty space.

it is a buff cause previosuly it was IMPOSSIBLE to get a clone up a slope,now you can and even use it like blink.

Wyrden.4713:

if u r a bunker, u rly shouldnt have problems w a pu condi mesmer atking u, just try not to stay on his clone deaths range

well till scepter clones get torment aa that is, idk how its gonna work out afterwards

I think he ment that the PU mesmer act like bunker while he is a non pu mesmer solo attacking it.

Your,how-to-deal a PU mesmer so false,keep firin 1 gs at him while confusion,torment from blocks kills you.GG.+ PU mesmers have almost perma protection + much more stealth.and those phntasms izerker will die quickly cause they kill clones which delivers condition.and iswordsman is a joke to perma protection mesmer who stealth alot.

Wyrden.4713:

Sandrox.9524:

musu.9205:

Ross Biddle.2367:

How I’m feeling right now,

I got to watching this, http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699 and at 5:30 or there abouts my scrub alert alarm started blaring.

the problem is that new scepter is still lack aoe condition pressure which are other conditin classes good for .
Its a braindead playstyle yes .But it won’t change the weakness of pu condition build that much in tpvp imho.
PU itself is just a cancer trait.

I know how good helseth is but lets be more real and add more facts with numbers
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Info-Torment-AkA-Why-Mesmer-Buff-isnt/first#post4323507

You forget that ontop of torment,mesmers have burning AND LOTS OF BLEEDS…
I play mesmer as main.And i dont play as condi and I KNOW that it is imposibble to face PU condi mesmer as it is! infact I was hoping that anet would nerf PU a bit…oh boy what a mess they do…

killed a lot pu condi mesmers

possible to beat, takes some time, just watch so u dont aoe much, kill the duelist, phantasms dont have on clone death conditions, etc

anyway a good condi mesmer could be unkillable

As a mesmer? I highly doubt it

zaxon.6819:

sandrox if that is the new meta.. then anet did a good job at balancing mesmers.. because it pushed them away from using clone on evasion.. but then that also stops the mesmer from creating clones that apply torment with scepter unless you are using auto attack to do it..

seems like a bad build though.. which is why forum people shouldnt guess at the impact of patch notes without actually playing it. because they obviously dont have a grasp of how it will play and what the impact will be.

Are you insane? with this build you dont need staff even…just block and AA block and AA….torch stealth,decoy and MI helos you kite and that is it..the point of that build is to show how OP it can be.New meta can be without the power line and instead go DE,but it will be the same result kite and AA +block and again and again…

Next meta … http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fl0npRtNoxMNcrNSphY6cxuhyypJZgKA-T1RHAB6u/gRK/YU9HAuIAopbI4nAgTKBJFgiSjA-w
ANET STOP THIS MADNESS

musu.9205:

Ross Biddle.2367:

How I’m feeling right now,

I got to watching this, http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699 and at 5:30 or there abouts my scrub alert alarm started blaring.

the problem is that new scepter is still lack aoe condition pressure which are other conditin classes good for .
Its a braindead playstyle yes .But it won’t change the weakness of pu condition build that much in tpvp imho.
PU itself is just a cancer trait.

I know how good helseth is but lets be more real and add more facts with numbers
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Info-Torment-AkA-Why-Mesmer-Buff-isnt/first#post4323507

You forget that ontop of torment,mesmers have burning AND LOTS OF BLEEDS…
I play mesmer as main.And i dont play as condi and I KNOW that it is imposibble to face PU condi mesmer as it is! infact I was hoping that anet would nerf PU a bit…oh boy what a mess they do…

Emtiarbi.3281:

A better change to mimic should have been to copy the boons and paste it to whoever we want. If i can copy 25 stack of might and pass it to some member of the team would be awesome.

Mimic+signet of inspiration and there you go!

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS WE SHOULD HAVE HAD CONDI CLEANSE BUFF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?