Guild Wars 2

insaneseagull.7063:

Spanny.9256:

lemme repeat that: your mind wrack needs to hit 3 separate times in order to accumulate the damage remotely similar to a thieves stealthed backstab.

It has to hit 3 times,indeed,but whereas a thief’s backstab only hits once you hit THREE times. You can negate a thief’s backstab,but alot harder negating all three shatters. Shatter is also AOE,a thieves backstab is not. A shatter can remove boons on hit (1 removed boon per illusion shattered,also AOE), a thief’s backstab does not.

Spanny.9256:

all the while you’re either kiting around with the glassiest stats ingame

Every mesmer has a health pool of around 19k health,a thief only has around 13k on average. I’m aware they have medium armor,thus slightly better stats, but they mostly have to choose on what they want to spend their initiative on,defense or offense.

Spanny.9256:

(and dont give me that “thieves have to do that too” argument because you and i both know well enough that thieves have more than enough mobility and stealth to get away from anything)

True,I agree on this,but we also have quite a few defensive skills to choose from as well,both on our utilities AND weapons. Plus traits (for ex. 3% less dmg per illusion out).
In fact,there’s a defensive skill on almost every weapon we have,plus 2 shatters which is defensive,and lots of utilities.

We are glass,but we have lots of defensive mechanisms/skills to make up for that. And,ofc,there’s the dodge button everyone can learn to use,at the right times,that is.

Mesmer isn’t sub-par to any class,no class is sub par to anyone. Sure,if you use META builds which everyone knows the “rotation” on and can counter easily you’ll feel quite sub-par but believe me,professions are what YOU make of them.

Comparing backstab to shatter,and with false points.Please comment yourself with the same picture.

Maskaganda.2043:

Sandrox.9524:

The rune is not to be blamed,the condi meta should be blamed.

there’s no such thing as a condi meta, at least not on EU servers.

Yea,my bad.I ment condi mechanic.As it is too strong in general.(The way you can spam conds like nothing)

HeadCrowned.6834:

Sandrox.9524:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Sandrox.9524:

Powermancer
Spectral
Terrormancer
MinionMaster
dhuumfire
and this is on top of my head builds,it have more,so Necro is in good spot.If we are talking about lack of builds you should check about Thief and Guardian sections.

Power is about the same as dhuumfire, minion aint viable cuz the minions aint working, and spectral is kinda useless most of the times. So Terror and power it is, 2 builds.

ahm..dhuumfire is condi lol,power is about using DS to spike,and spectral is a more sustainish power build and MM works very well,proof is that most of the necros are MM(basically cheese build).
And Spectral is very very viable.I can one shot thieves with it and can maintain points.

Necros have much more diversty than thieves for instance,when you see thief,you will know what his build just by the looks of his weapons set.You cant say it about necros.

dhuumfire is a condi trait indeed but in the power traitline. You need to be in DS to trigger dhuumfire, and your DS bar is filled much faster with using dagger and axe on mainhand. Those are power weapons, not condi like scepter. You can one shot thieves, , although other classes have much better ways to maintain a point. I have been using a tanky necro build for a while and they seem fine at first. But they lack too much stuff to be competitive. MM is not the most used build at all, I barely see them anymore these days, because the minions are still buggy. Maybe they appear in hotjoins, but I don’t play there so I don’t know.

The whole point of dhuumfire is to be condi.The fact that is in power line dosnt mean the build focused stats is power.
You only need staff and spectral walk to fill your DS.

What if other classes can maintain points better? if it goes like that you will see only guardians in pvp..
I
dk what happend in last month(I havent played a whole month),but before it,when you see necro in tpvp,it is a MM one 90% of the times.And no, im not doing hotjoins.

Amins.3710:

evilapprentice.6379:

Don’t forget to ditch the positional requirement as well!

Note: I don’t think rangers are OP. I do think it’s logicially inconsistent for ANet to nerf thieves damage/spike damage/survivability
over
and over
and over
and over
and over
and over
and over
and over
and over again for the sake of balance, then give similar damage capabilities and risk mitigation/survivability to other classes for some reason.

Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place
Guardians are in a good place

For the love of all things Holy! I completely agree with you

Now now,Guardians are so OP they just send thier spirit weapons to do all the work.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

shimmerlessEU.6841:

Portal isn’t even remotely comparable to SR in terms of usefulness. It is a huge sacrifice on the Mesmer’s part (SR costs a Thief absolutely nothing). If I may be frank for a second, and without intention to divert the thread off-topic too much, Portal has really held the class back while SR has always been a painless option. It was the case back when “combat Portal” on a half minute cooldown used to exist and it’s still the same now.

Mesmer logic – all mesmers have is totally useless while our opponents are uber op and it requires a great deal of skill to kill anyone as a mesmer. Everyone should feel sorry for us and praise our persistence in playing such a underpowered class.

This is why mesmer posts are one of the most toxic ones and often lack any sense regarding class/skill balance.

Actually,I invite you to visit mesmer forums,maybe one of the most not-toxic subforum here.

The rune is not to be blamed,the condi meta should be blamed.

Tommyknocker.6089:

I love my necro in a WvW zerg where you can replenish your life force very quickly and are a god of laying down pain with wells and marks. However if I am roaming I use a mesmer, and if I am doing any PvE content I stick with my warrior. However, if the fight is not going our way in WvW the lack of mobility, vigor, blocks ect. makes us an easy target for cc and focus fire and we seldom get away; my guild has the saying you just need to outrun the necros.

IMO Necro’s are fine for what they can do, mind you they are quite limited in most areas of the game compared to other classes and as has been said the build diversity is quite lacking.

I do take my hat off to any roaming necros I see in WvW though simply because you need to be very good. Otherwise you are usually just troll bait for mesmers and thieves.

Tbh,I wouldn’t,I roam with my power necro alot,and the only thing I cant handle is mesmers cause kitten dazes and knockbacks.If there is one class(part for Guardian) which I would take my hat off,is d/d ele this is quite hard to master.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Sandrox.9524:

Powermancer
Spectral
Terrormancer
MinionMaster
dhuumfire
and this is on top of my head builds,it have more,so Necro is in good spot.If we are talking about lack of builds you should check about Thief and Guardian sections.

Power is about the same as dhuumfire, minion aint viable cuz the minions aint working, and spectral is kinda useless most of the times. So Terror and power it is, 2 builds.

ahm..dhuumfire is condi lol,power is about using DS to spike,and spectral is a more sustainish power build and MM works very well,proof is that most of the necros are MM(basically cheese build).
And Spectral is very very viable.I can one shot thieves with it and can maintain points.

Necros have much more diversty than thieves for instance,when you see thief,you will know what his build just by the looks of his weapons set.You cant say it about necros.

Peow peow.2189:

a warrior hit me for 14k today – what the hell is this

This called noob warrior.If you only dodge he would be dead.those warriors who crit like that are one trick pony,you get them to miss thier attack and they are basically panic.

Drennon.7190:

I’m going to try the video idea, so I can watch and see what mistakes I make. I think a lot of my issue is focusing too much on 1v1s to take the far point.

I suggest that you watch Sizer or Caed streams,it will give you the idea on how to play thief in conquest mode.

fire and energy then^

Dondagora.9645:

I find stealth-spamming thieves to fall easily to my current Condi-Shatter. Every time they come out, I shatter on them for a good amount of torment+confusion+some other condition I happen to throw on them, burning or poison or both. With the cover condition and both burst conditions, the thief will wear down his health and be lower or at the same amount when he surfaces again. Repeat this. The strength of condition mesmer though is the defense of scepter-torch and staff, using your block or stealth or Chaos Storm.

But if it will be SA thief? tatadammm

reapex.8546:

I don’t regret it but I didn’t spend 3,000g. I made mine

You wasted 2000g in mats.

Just stand on the clone and wait for him if shatter just mirror blade(it tracks stealth)spike on self + diversion.Problem is most thieves have another ways of getting stealth.just keep 1 and only clone(prefer izerker) or bunch of clones on same spot and be there too.This is your best chance.also count the CnD stealth timer.

Tim.6450:

Rym.1469:

Sorry, but Life Force being just another poor version of “2nd Life bar” isn’t resource management for me. What about situations when you’re capped at LF in PvE world as a condi necro and you simply have no reason to use your profession’s mechanic apart from fear flash maybe?

Let’s see dhuumfire, tainted shackles, dark path are obvious ones for conditon users. Then you can use life blast to finish off an opponent when he is low if you specced a bit in power like sinister/carrion, life transfer to stop the mordrem mender from healing. So I see my uses for death shroud as condition wielding necromancer in pve.

Condition in pve is meh in general,and in general necro have good acess to condis so -in general speaking-necros are better at pve than others.-condition wise-.

Powermancer
Spectral
Terrormancer
MinionMaster
dhuumfire
and this is on top of my head builds,it have more,so Necro is in good spot.If we are talking about lack of builds you should check about Thief and Guardian sections.

Lol,as a one who plays both mesmer and thief only,I can tell you that the love and hate betwin them is so so mutual.

Somtimes it can be furstrating,but you cant lose to a lb ranger in 1v1 situation…unless he knows how to play gs aswell.

Comparing SR to MI is like comparing phantasms to thieves guild,there are some utilites that fit more thieves and hence are much better and there are utlities that fits mesmers that are much better than thieves.Each have a specialty,thieves is stealth,mesmers is clones.

First of all,Thank you all for the replies.

Secondly,@mango I see your point,but 26006 have more dmg potencial,while 20066 have more sustain and good dmg potencial aswell.Im kinda want to try exploring the depth of the S/D set capablities.
@AikijinX Mind you larcenous strike hit like a truck xD
And yes,I would like to see your video I will be much obliged.

Anyone can give me a 2/6/0/0/6 build ? to compare mine?

Amonatory.2453:

Viable? Possibly, but I only go deep into Trickery for the daze on steal. You’d be better off with 2/4/2/0/6 or 2/6/0/0/6 oooorrrrr 2/4/0/2/6

Thank you for replying,going 4 on critcial strike meanign the loss of executioner,which is the only reason for me to go on this line. going 2/6/0/0/6 will make me very very squishy,do you think that this build could stand on its own?

I dont regret.Having Bolt and Inci on my S/D thief.He looks so fab

I used to play 2/0/0/6/6 build.

Is the build 2/6/2/0/4 (2 on SA for shadow embrace) is viable build?
Wanted to try this or 2/6/0/0/6 , it is very very squishy build,but on high level will it work?
cause I tried to play it abit,and it seems I die alot easier now,but doing a hell lot more of dmg.Tho mostly die xD
I think it is more of a “get used to” or “time makes perfect” kind of thing what is your opinion on this build?

I can also appreciate nice video,and this is was very nice! :]
Also,What is the the armor chest and legs name of Saku the 8:03.Adn the name of your legging(aka feet) armor?

StickerHappy.8052:

Sandrox.9524:

Arikyali.5804:

Sandrox.9524:

SlimChance.6593:

-snip-

Yep,the ice shard stab…poor steal in compare to others.

Same thing I was thinking.

“Get back here and stop running, you flippin’ fast ele, so I can stab you in the face with this ice shard!!”

ele: -trollface-

And when you land it successfull,the ele just cleanse it in a blink xD

If you use it after stealing while the ele is in water attunement. Of course it would get cleansed immediately. Duh.

or not in water attunement but switch after..

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sandrox.9524:

And like I said,you will dodge,but you first take more than 50% of the dmg and it is still alot.(in situations when RF comes from nowhere).

Rapid fire never comes from nowhere. If you aren’t capable of scanning your surroundings and are too slow to react then you shouldn’t play so glassy.

Sandrox.9524:

My counter to this is Why should I waste block just on the 1st arrow while I get the rest of the arrows? while on eviscerate-blocking really blocks all the attack?

You really just don’t know how the game works do you? Block skills end after 1 melee hit, for projectiles they block for the full duration of the block skill.
Example: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposte “The riposte only activates if an attack is blocked while in melee range of a target. However, the riposte will not not activate when a ranged attack is blocked; therefore, all ranged attacks will be blocked for the duration of the block.”

Sandrox.9524:

The moment you compare zergs and thieves groups to a single RF ranger just prove my point thank you

I have never once since this game was in beta been instantly burst down by a RF ranger. In fact I am struggling to remember ever dying to a solo RF ranger. The few rangers I’ve run into that gave me a hard time were condi regen.

Sandrox.9524:

The SECOND my health starts dropping…you said it requires 1.25 seconds to get 50% health down,so SECOND is like 40%?and that’s like 1200m away.

He said it takes 1.25 seconds for a rapid fire to deliver half of its damage. If 50% of rapid fire = 50% of your life then, once again, you need to stop playing so glassy.

Sandrox.9524:

The average reaction time for human is 0.50 seconds if you doing other things,that is half second of RF already,and most ppl cannot react in half second nor pop dodge or anything in middle of a fight

Average human reaction time falls between .15 and .3 seconds. If you can’t react in over half a second then that is because you are much slower than the average person.

Wow……How can one become so ignorant.Dude your loved proffesion,doing sick dmg 1200m away,and yes 50% of rf is like almost 40% of your health,while backstab does 50% at most.You giving me a kitteng warrior skill and say that all blocks work that way ? omfg and you say I DONT KNOW how the game works…..and on top of all you think that average reaction time is 0.15 sec to 0.30 and think it is the real reaction time that you have in gw2.That time is in perfect conditions,for example when you drive it is much higher and it is higher with each varieble that is added to the equation(like weather).Unless you have like zen powers or on kittenload of ritalin.And dont worry about me playing glassy,I pretty much deal very nice with RF rangers,what is kittenes me off is the occaisonaly,RF ranger coming from out of my LOS from huge distance and burst me.And I would not argue with you anymore.Im tired of this balance wars anet is doing which set this forum a blaze.

Arikyali.5804:

Sandrox.9524:

SlimChance.6593:

-snip-

Yep,the ice shard stab…poor steal in compare to others.

Same thing I was thinking.

“Get back here and stop running, you flippin’ fast ele, so I can stab you in the face with this ice shard!!”

ele: -trollface-

And when you land it successfull,the ele just cleanse it in a blink xD

MailMail.6534:

I think sword 4’s interrupt is harder to land than both pistol and focus. This drawback is offset by its extremely low cool down however. If you’re playing CI, you want as much certainty that you’re able to land an interrupt as possible.

With CS, simply dazing the opponent is enough to proc CS so there’s not as much emphasis on interrupt as with CI.

Check out my build, “Dazzling Blades”. It’s a really fun high risk high reward Lockdown phantasm build:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAscRnsISNa2oGmpB3aG50YQ1Yk+gCCo0jsS4A-TZBFwACOCA12fo9DAoaZAAnCAA

I might try it,but without the signet heal.
it is very very squishy build imo.

shadowpass.4236:

Sandrox.9524:

You might want to look at my 1st post here again.Replying to someone without knowing about what do you reply is not very smart. And like I said,you will dodge,but you first take more than 50% of the dmg and it is still alot.(in situations when RF comes from nowhere).

A few things.

First: People assume that all they can do to avoid a Rapid Fire is dodge. You forget that you have blocks and invulnerabilities, reflects, etc. etc. To those who try to reason “Well why should I have to waste a utility or block on Rapid Fire?” my counter to that is “Well why should I have to waste a utility or block on an Earthshaker, or an Eviscerate?”
My counter to this is Why should I waste block just on the 1st arrow while I get the rest of the arrows? while on eviscerate-blocking really blocks all the attack?

Second: If you are completely caught off guard and eat 50% of the Rapid Fire, that is no one’s fault but your own. Hell, I’ve had zergs “sneak” up behind me and I’ve been insta downed by a group of roaming thieves plenty of times but I don’t go around saying that its not fair that I have to pay attention in a competitive environment.
The moment you compare zergs and thieves groups to a single RF ranger just prove my point thank you

Third: If you are only staring straight ahead of your character in WvW or PvP, you need to fix that. Even if I don’t know where the ranger is the second my health starts dropping, I know I’m going to have to figure out some way to avoid the damage until I can eliminate the source.“The SECOND my health starts dropping…you said it requires 1.25 seconds to get 50% health down,so SECOND is like 40%?and that’s like 1200m away.

Fourth: You shouldn’t play PvP if your reaction time is that slow. 50% of the damage is a whole 1.25 seconds you have to dodge or avoid it and if you don’t, then that sucks for you.The average reaction time for human is 0.50 seconds if you doing other things,that is half second of RF already,and most ppl cannot react in half second nor pop dodge or anything in middle of a fight

Commented on every point you made.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Sandrox.9524:

Secondly,unless you are The Flash(which will be very cool) I cant see how can you dodge a 2.5sec(almost insta) surprise RF,maybe in the last 3 arrows.

In a game where people can potentially jump you from equivalent range literally without any warning, the last thing I’m worried about is a 2.5sec channeled skill.

totally agree with you.

Black Box.9312:

Sandrox.9524:

I didnt resorted to any attack,as I didnt stated anything,I just said all the possible reasons to comment like you did.Saying that I called you stupid,is what you interpret from that.

You said this:

This comment could happen for one of these reasons:
1.This user is completely ret_rd
2.This user have diffculty reading English.
3.This user maybe have a user,but never played the game.
4.This user simply a bad troll.
5.This user have 8 characters level 80,all rangers.

Maybe all,but that is very rare.

That has zero informative value. If you honestly think that that is a logical argument and not a string of insults, then I fear you’re even worse off than I thought.

I agree that it has zero informative value,but it is very very very very logical argument,cause your comment was so narrow minded,there are worse things that could be said about it and there are nicer things,I chose this comment cause this is how I feel it should be.If you gonna be so kitten over this,by all means.I dont really care.All I know that my comment was standard.

SlimChance.6593:

Lets do a comparison shall we?

When a thief steals, the “Steal” gets converted to:

(From other thieves) Blinding Tuft – “Throw a handful of hair, vanishing in stealth and blinding nearby foes.”
Blind: 3 s
Stealth: 3 s
Number of Targets: 5
Range: 120

(from Guardians) Mace Head Crack -“Daze your foe.”
Damage: 24
Daze: 4 s
Range: 170

(from Necromancer) Skull Fear - “Strike fear into nearby foes.”
0 to 200 Distance: 3 s
200 to 400 Distance: 2 s
400 to 600 Distance: 1 s
Range: 600

(from Engineer) Throw Gunk - “Throw gunk at target area to inflict a random condition.”
Damage: 147
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 900
-Pulses 5 times, conditions includes:
11s Bleeding
7s Poison
2s Burning
2s Chilled
4s Vulnerabilty
4s Weakness
4s Crippled
1s Immobilized
4s Blind

(from Warrior) Whirling Axe - “Spin and attack nearby foes. You can move while spinning.”
Damage: 8
Number of Attacks: 15
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Range: 1,200

(from Ranger) Healing Seed - “Grants regeneration and removes conditions from yourself and nearby allies.”
Healing: 435
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Water

(From Elementalists) Ice Shard Stab - “Stab and chill your foe.”
Damage: 72
Chilled: 10 s
Range: 170

(from Mesmers) Consume Plasma - “Gain all boons.”
Protection: 10 s
Regeneration: 10 s (1300 health)
Vigor: 10 s
Might: 10 s
Fury: 10 s
Swiftness: 10 s
Aegis: 10 s
Stability: 3 s
Retaliation: 5 s

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn’t belong.
Can you tell which thing is not like the others, by the time I finish my song?

Yep,the ice shard stab…poor steal in compare to others.

Why CS and not CI?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sandrox.9524:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sandrox.9524:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rangers aren’t magically appearing out of thin air. If you aren’t constantly scanning around yourself in any PvP game you need to step up your performance. Not to mention this game provides you with a big red sign above your enemy so that they can’t just blend in somewhere.

If you gonna say that you never ever in your whole (lets say 3k hours) time playing this game,didnt got flanked or hit behind without noticing(Exluding stealth),i’d ask what are you smokin’,cause it is a kitten good one.Cause,part of stealth,rangers can hit you from miles away,so yeah,w/o notice you will get barrage.and it happens alot.With or w/o high situational awareness.

Sure it’s happened on the rare occasion when I was being lazy or I was already engaged in a fight with a good player that required all of my focus.

The thing is if I get blindsided I still rarely get downed because I react with the appropriate counter. If I’m being hit by a channeled ranged attack I will dodge roll, block or reflect depending on my character and what skills are available.

I wouldn’t stealth in this situation, just like I wouldn’t pop a stun break when I get immobilized.

If I was stupid enough to use the wrong skills, or get instadowned by some roaming thieves because I was being lazy and not paying attention, I would be upset with myself for screwing up and then I would go hunt those players down. I wouldn’t come cry on the forums that something needs to be changed because I screwed up and reacted poorly.

First, who said something about stunbreak or stealth?

Secondly,unless you are The Flash(which will be very cool) I cant see how can you dodge a 2.5sec(almost insta) surprise RF,maybe in the last 3 arrows.

In conclusion,I didnt came here to cry,my first post was actually very reasonable,thieves gets nerfed with thier bursts,warriors gets nerfed with thier bursts,so why not rangers?
And let me save you some time,if you gonna say it is not a burst,debate is over for me.

Black Box.9312:

You resorted to attacks on my intelligence. That’s incredibly personal and completely irrelevant to critique.

I didnt resorted to any attack,as I didnt stated anything,I just said all the possible reasons to comment like you did.Saying that I called you stupid,is what you interpret from that.

Who said something about stealth!? You might want to look at the title of this thread again. And reacting to a channeled skill that does it’s damage over 2.5 seconds doesn’t take the reflexes of the flash. If it takes you longer than that to react to something you might be playing the wrong game, maybe you should try something like minesweeper.

You might want to look at my 1st post here again.Replying to someone without knowing about what do you reply is not very smart.And like I said,you will dodge,but you first take more than 50% of the dmg and it is still alot.(in situations when RF comes from nowhere).

Why is Sw/Sw not an option?

lagoriel.6475:

My guild is currently planning to gear up for GvG. Unfortunately they’re mostly like: “No one ever played a Mesmer in here, so just grant veil and null field and – don’t you die!”

Now I wonder how to serve my purpose best. I found standard shatter builds to be too squishy and PU/other condibuilds appear to me to be rather useless due to Lemongrass-Poultry-Soup and other condi-reduce. Am I right?

So what do you recommend for GvG? Maybe a deep Chaos-Spec?

Furthermore… Where do you, my fellow Mesmers, roam most of the time? Picking, sticking with the train or backpedaling/kiting?

Thanks in advance :>

Dont take null field,your job is harass,why mesmer and not thief? dont really know,part of veil bot,but you want to be full shatter,having long range blink(traited)and decoy.
When I used to GvG alot,I had a destroyer warrior and a thief with me on harass group,the thief was basically a stealth bot,blindfield and blast,and we all targted one guy,I was doing the immoblize and dazes,while thief and the warrior did some pressure.
I used gs-s/t with usual shatter build,but instead of iElitascly I chose the shatter cd trait.
I find that thieves,hate mesmers in GvG as thieves always sticked to fight me.
-Always save your blink when you on low health,to blink to your melee group to get heals and cover from other harassers.
-If you in a tight spot get to melee zerg
-use distortion wisely
-dont be far from the other harassers in your group.
-ofc watch for the enemy melee zerg
-and stomp only if you are away from the enemy melee zerg.(I never stomped,our warrior did all the stomps).

Did like 20-30 gvg’s with my mesmer and thief.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Sandrox.9524:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rangers aren’t magically appearing out of thin air. If you aren’t constantly scanning around yourself in any PvP game you need to step up your performance. Not to mention this game provides you with a big red sign above your enemy so that they can’t just blend in somewhere.

If you gonna say that you never ever in your whole (lets say 3k hours) time playing this game,didnt got flanked or hit behind without noticing(Exluding stealth),i’d ask what are you smokin’,cause it is a kitten good one.Cause,part of stealth,rangers can hit you from miles away,so yeah,w/o notice you will get barrage.and it happens alot.With or w/o high situational awareness.

Sure it’s happened on the rare occasion when I was being lazy or I was already engaged in a fight with a good player that required all of my focus.

The thing is if I get blindsided I still rarely get downed because I react with the appropriate counter. If I’m being hit by a channeled ranged attack I will dodge roll, block or reflect depending on my character and what skills are available.

I wouldn’t stealth in this situation, just like I wouldn’t pop a stun break when I get immobilized.

If I was stupid enough to use the wrong skills, or get instadowned by some roaming thieves because I was being lazy and not paying attention, I would be upset with myself for screwing up and then I would go hunt those players down. I wouldn’t come cry on the forums that something needs to be changed because I screwed up and reacted poorly.

First, who said something about stunbreak or stealth?

Secondly,unless you are The Flash(which will be very cool) I cant see how can you dodge a 2.5sec(almost insta) surprise RF,maybe in the last 3 arrows.

In conclusion,I didnt came here to cry,my first post was actually very reasonable,thieves gets nerfed with thier bursts,warriors gets nerfed with thier bursts,so why not rangers?
And let me save you some time,if you gonna say it is not a burst,debate is over for me.

Black Box.9312:

You resorted to attacks on my intelligence. That’s incredibly personal and completely irrelevant to critique.

I didnt resorted to any attack,as I didnt stated anything,I just said all the possible reasons to comment like you did.Saying that I called you stupid,is what you interpret from that.

BlackBeard.2873:

Idk if shadow refuge or shadow step is the stronger utility (at least in conquest). Probably shadow-step, and you are a fool if you ever take it off your bar (unless using some silliness such as 1-shot signet builds or venoms).

How to make shadow refuge slightly more balanced (pick some, not all)
- Add a real cast time (as OP suggested). 0.25s isn’t a real cast time, it literally just makes the skill not able to be used as a psuedo-stunbreak.
- Remove the healing it provides (at least on downed people). Currently, SR is like a short Elixir R, in addition to the whole stealth thing and being a dark field.
- No longer able to drop at range, simply a player-based skill so that there is risk to dropping this on a team-mate (besides lost CD).

That is not balancing,that called nerfing.

Vikkela.7261:

Sandrox.9524:

Please teach me how to see behind me aswell as infront of me or above me.please.

The funny part here is that this is written by a guy who plays the two classes in game who have access to stealth and can walk up to people undetected

Heh,maybe so,but the differences betwin,stealth,and juking from 1200m with a almost instant channel,is that the proffesions who do uses stealth like the two you were aiming at,the huge burst is from melee range,not 1200m away.It is like backstabbing have range now :o

Sandrox.9524:

Sandrox.9524:

Black Box.9312:

Sandrox.9524:

Black Box.9312:

Sandrox.9524:

but when the ranger is not in your LOS you pretty much screwed.

When the ranger is not in your LoS, then that means that their rapid fire will be obstructed.

Argument dismissed.

This comment could happen for one of these reasons:
1.This user is completely ret_rd
2.This user have diffculty reading English.
3.This user maybe have a user,but never played the game.
4.This user simply a bad troll.
5.This user have 8 characters level 80,all rangers.

Maybe all,but that is very rare.

lol? I prefer not to argue with ad hominem, so I guess I’ll just be on my way.

Please teach me how to see behind me aswell as infront of me or above me.please.

Rangers aren’t magically appearing out of thin air. If you aren’t constantly scanning around yourself in any PvP game you need to step up your performance. Not to mention this game provides you with a big red sign above your enemy so that they can’t just blend in somewhere.

If you gonna say that you never ever in your whole (lets say 3k hours) time playing this game,didnt got flanked or hit behind without noticing(Exluding stealth),i’d ask what are you smokin’,cause it is a kitten good one.Cause,part of stealth,rangers can hit you from miles away,so yeah,w/o notice you will get barrage.and it happens alot.With or w/o high situational awareness.

Bryzy.2719:

Sandrox.9524:

Black Box.9312:

Sandrox.9524:

but when the ranger is not in your LOS you pretty much screwed.

When the ranger is not in your LoS, then that means that their rapid fire will be obstructed.

Argument dismissed.

This comment could happen for one of these reasons:
1.This user is completely ret_rd
2.This user have diffculty reading English.
3.This user maybe have a user,but never played the game.
4.This user simply a bad troll.
5.This user have 8 characters level 80,all rangers.

Maybe all,but that is very rare.

That was incredibly unnecessary and basically offensive. You could have just put forth your counter argument without resorting to ad hominem. You represent the more cancerous vein of the GW2 community.

Actually,it wasnt so offensive,and the people who represent the “more cancerous vein of gw2” is the ones which invented this term.Learn to accept critque,it is not like I offended on ethic level or on somthing personal.

Arikyali.5804:

Mango said it before me. The game isn’t designed for 1v1 , and consume plasma isn’t as helpful in team fights. (Edit: because gaining boons isn’t reliable. Thieves focus more on mobility conditions, than relying on boons. Usually you consume plasma because there’s one particular boon you need badly.)

Fay, 6/8 of your points require traits. Yes, those are the popular ones, but they are glued into the build. Whatever advantage you pick up in a trait, you have to sacrifice for not taking another. If steal doesn’t land, you don’t get any benefits.

Is 10 seconds of boons really that OP? Elementalists can gain boons like nobody’s business. Guardians can stack might without fields or finishers. And the boons can still be stolen, ripped, or copied. Heck, Shattered Concentration and arcane thievery remove boons. And the only stability a thief has comes from an elite skill with a 90 second cooldown. Any other source of stability has to come from somewhere else.

Thieves aren’t OP. Mesmers aren’t OP. Every class is OP.

what the heck are you talking about ?! boons are the most important thing in a party,gaining perma protection,regen or retaliation,can be much effective in group play.I play thief alot,and with guardian that gives me protection Im almost on godmode.

About plasma,it may be strong,but the animation is pretty much obvious and can easly be inturpted,and most thieves,still get bursted down really quick even with all the boons.It dosnt really help them

Black Box.9312:

Sandrox.9524:

Black Box.9312:

Sandrox.9524:

but when the ranger is not in your LOS you pretty much screwed.

When the ranger is not in your LoS, then that means that their rapid fire will be obstructed.

Argument dismissed.

This comment could happen for one of these reasons:
1.This user is completely ret_rd
2.This user have diffculty reading English.
3.This user maybe have a user,but never played the game.
4.This user simply a bad troll.
5.This user have 8 characters level 80,all rangers.

Maybe all,but that is very rare.

lol? I prefer not to argue with ad hominem, so I guess I’ll just be on my way.

Please teach me how to see behind me aswell as infront of me or above me.please.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Sandrox.9524:

Kreed.2768:

Sandrox.9524:

sorry,there is a diffrences betwin having a 5 seconds channel skill to 1 sec channel skill(lol).You may dodge it when you see it coming,but when the ranger is not in your LOS you pretty much screwed.Rangers abusing RF with quickness just liek thieves abused backstabs with the assassins signet in launch,bot backstab and the signet nerfed hard,I dont see why RF and the quickness thingy shouldnt be nerfed.

PS->I dont even mention that rangers can RF from stealth..

RF is already on a 2,5 sec channel. Who would waste a slot for QZ just to fire one 1,25 sec RF off every 48/60 seconds?

Belive it or not,rangers abuse it in wvw.

They usually die seconds later as a result.

This is even more stupid,they down somone with 1 skill,just to die seconds after.That is stupid and they still do it.And yes there are still some stupid rangers which uses that skill combo,but that is not the issue here anyway.

This thread make me laugh so hard…mobility is OP .. lol here I thought,after two years in the game,that ppl would understand that,CONDITIONS IS AT BROKEN STATE,and not the celestial kitten,conditions are the biggest problem,and saying ele and enigeer are op cause of ? MOBILITY? hahahahahahahahahaha try the condition spam they have.that is what make them lethal.

Kreed.2768:

Sandrox.9524:

sorry,there is a diffrences betwin having a 5 seconds channel skill to 1 sec channel skill(lol).You may dodge it when you see it coming,but when the ranger is not in your LOS you pretty much screwed.Rangers abusing RF with quickness just liek thieves abused backstabs with the assassins signet in launch,bot backstab and the signet nerfed hard,I dont see why RF and the quickness thingy shouldnt be nerfed.

PS->I dont even mention that rangers can RF from stealth..

RF is already on a 2,5 sec channel. Who would waste a slot for QZ just to fire one 1,25 sec RF off every 48/60 seconds?

Belive it or not,rangers abuse it in wvw.

Black Box.9312:

Sandrox.9524:

but when the ranger is not in your LOS you pretty much screwed.

When the ranger is not in your LoS, then that means that their rapid fire will be obstructed.

Argument dismissed.

This comment could happen for one of these reasons:
1.This user is completely ret_rd
2.This user have diffculty reading English.
3.This user maybe have a user,but never played the game.
4.This user simply a bad troll.
5.This user have 8 characters level 80,all rangers.

Maybe all,but that is very rare.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Arrow speed was never buffed and you can’t dodge RF by just walking left and right in the past. In the past there are latency between each arrow shot, the patch just address those latencies, not making the arrows go faster.

Your other statement is even more false because past channeling takes 5 seconds. That’s right, FIVE SECONDS. That is exactly the reason why not many rangers take LB in the past, they’re stuck channeling it for 5 seconds while opponents were given huge opportunity to retaliate (and force ranger to drop LB and fight in melee) or re-position using LoS. See the trick here? These two strategies are exactly the same way to deal with the current LB ranger. Even better, now ranger’s opponents have a new option: dodge to avoid 3-5 arrows. But instead of choosing those, OP resorts to stealth and want it to completely negate RF. I don’t see anything reasonable or logical about his argument. What he claimed it to be the best option is totally bias in favor of D/P thieves and PU mesmers for reasons me and many others had already explained (and yet someone is still not comprehending lol).

Back to your topic. In the past RF can track through stealth for 5 seconds. If we’re going to follow the same argument, then the past LB ranger has even superior ability in tracking stealth target. That also means to mitigate arrow damages you would need a lot more dodges than now. So reasons such as “oh but you need two or more dodges”, “right now it track through stealth” is an awfully weak backup when the buff was, in a way, towards stealth opponents’ favor.

sorry,there is a diffrences betwin having a 5 seconds channel skill to 1 sec channel skill(lol).You may dodge it when you see it coming,but when the ranger is not in your LOS you pretty much screwed.Rangers abusing RF with quickness just liek thieves abused backstabs with the assassins signet in launch,bot backstab and the signet nerfed hard,I dont see why RF and the quickness thingy shouldnt be nerfed.

PS→I dont even mention that rangers can RF from stealth..

RF should track stealth,but since it do tracks stealth,the dmg should be low,just like backstab got nerfed RF should be nerfed,dmg wise.

First of all,lets get things clear→Thief cannot be used as tank.
Now,making a tanky thief is very much can be done.
First things that comes to my mind about tanky thief is the medi thief build,it can be tweaked to have less stealth,and more sustain.
I would first choose a spec that should not rely on stealth AT ALL,which is mostly s/d-SB. Or even SB-SB or S/d-S/d(S/p would work aswell)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsaVl8MptplNx8J0PRBNhwVNPD/VrAd/M6QA-TJRHABJXGAgTBgAPBgM2fAA
I think CC are important,so S/p and traps would work,the blinding powder is for avoiding friendlies get stomped and stealth ress and to clear some conditions,if you have lots of condies,place blindfield and cluster it.
1v1 fights should be with S/p while bigger fights should be done with SB.
Fight on point should be easy cause you have blind field,lots of evades,and traps to keep ppl at bay.

Elitist.8701:

@Sandrox, you have no idea what you’re talking about. First of all, no DD thief could ever “stomp” me, Ive only ever seen 1 good DD thief and I went 70/30 with him on SD, 100/0 on DP. Also Ive seen Caed play and the way he plays DP wouldnt translate to DD at all. Stop acting like you’re god mode Mr.WvWHero. The fact that you need a crutch such as mobs to Cnd off of just shows how awful the weaponset is. @Mango, I dont know about WvW skirmishes because WvW is full of bad players but in PvP even in a deathmatch mode, a DD thief would get destroyed because if CnD misses once you have to waste CDs, and DD thief can get locked down incredibly easily and cant disengage nearly as well as DP or SD. Also just based on how you think DD is held back by capture points shows your limited knowledge of PvP. It’s actually held back by its reliance on SA taking away from team support, the terrible 1v1 potential it has vs anyone even remotely good, and the lack of survivability it has in a teamfight when locked down. It also lacks in mobility and decap capability because without trickery you cant use SB. 5 much.
DD is dead.

I dont say D/D is master spec.But it is not trash either,if you think good thief,which play certain spec,cant play good on pretty similar spec,well,wrong.

I dont know where I acted as godmode mr.wvwhero or somthing,fact that you on such offensive,meaning,somthing I said was true.CnD without SA is just practice,and it will not be trash,I bet you never really tried D/D and you base all of your posts to “you never see D/D thief in pvp”,while it is true,D/p outshine D/D,I find D/D good in many situations D/P isnt.Usin obstacles is part of the game,when I play mesmer,i often blinks to higher places tomake my opponet lose his LOS.Same goes for CnD obstacles.

Elitist.8701:

Asahi.1487:

lvis.3824:

snip*

I’m in the top 1000 team arena and run D/D. WHAT NOW?!

I was 35 in solo arena and consistent top 200 whenever I teamq and im telling you DD is trash. What now?

than you full of crap. d/d is not trash. I bet caed would stomp you all day playing as d/d.

d/d is good in wvw when there are static objects/mobs you can use apart from target itself.

better off just take d/d and backstab them.