Guild Wars 2

Nice video. See, thieves can do okay if they experiment a little.

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

SoLeciTO.3490:

This video is a perfect evidence of how unfair anet is balancing the things.

This video prove that with a warrior:

1.- A clicker can rule in a big fight.
2.- You can walk in the middle of the fight with an AOE damage fest like nothing.
3.- You can bring a lot of sustain CC and AOE damage.
4.- You need 1/4 of the skill that requires a thief, engi, ele, mesmer to play.
5.- Don’t need to worry of reacting fast, there is almost no punishment to mistakes like a bad evade or escape skill use.

And trust me when i say this . . . i don’t ask to nerf warriors i’m happy that they enjoy this meta, i really do, but ANET must stop this no sense thief nerfing and consider this next dec 10.

Sample sizes of one prove nothing, sorry. Anet is fair and balanced. You don’t agree because you have a bias and its not your job to protect the health of the game. You and most thieves care only about your class.

You must be kidding. More like, sample size of the entire Warrior population. You can’t swing a cat around by its tail without hitting a Healing Signet Warrior of some type.

One video doesn’t prove anything. Anet has all the data. Trust them to do what’s right for the game.

Current state of Warriors proves everything.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Videos-The-Wilsonian-Institute-11-11-13
bonus content: Warriors complaining about nerfs. How zany!

Please do your research.

I wonder why Thieves don’t trust ArenaNet to do the right thing.
source:

Compilation of Thief Nerfs (V 2.0)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/3173053

Most of those aren’t nerfs. Secondly, you may not like the adjustments but Anet must protect the health of the game. Many of us love our thieves but we like challenges. challenges aren’t for everyone though.

The majority of them are nerfs.

How are Warriors protecting the health of the game when the game is being saturated with them?

If ArenaNet knows what they are doing, care to explain Counterblow through Blinding Powder then?

Oh, maybe because Blinding Powder is a blast finisher now? And now that makes it an attack (with no damage!). So, don’t go using it near professions that can block/counter with an attack.

Yes, complete genius on their part.

Then go complain about warriors. Making thieves op in exchange isn’t an answer. The majority of those were bug fixes to prevent abuse of broken mechanics. Again anet has to look at the balance of the entire game. I still see thieves receiving the greatest hate in map chat, warriors aren’t even close. How else do you expect anet to respond. I look forward to a day when anet can actually help this class because hated abusive specs are no more.

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

SoLeciTO.3490:

This video is a perfect evidence of how unfair anet is balancing the things.

This video prove that with a warrior:

1.- A clicker can rule in a big fight.
2.- You can walk in the middle of the fight with an AOE damage fest like nothing.
3.- You can bring a lot of sustain CC and AOE damage.
4.- You need 1/4 of the skill that requires a thief, engi, ele, mesmer to play.
5.- Don’t need to worry of reacting fast, there is almost no punishment to mistakes like a bad evade or escape skill use.

And trust me when i say this . . . i don’t ask to nerf warriors i’m happy that they enjoy this meta, i really do, but ANET must stop this no sense thief nerfing and consider this next dec 10.

Sample sizes of one prove nothing, sorry. Anet is fair and balanced. You don’t agree because you have a bias and its not your job to protect the health of the game. You and most thieves care only about your class.

You must be kidding. More like, sample size of the entire Warrior population. You can’t swing a cat around by its tail without hitting a Healing Signet Warrior of some type.

One video doesn’t prove anything. Anet has all the data. Trust them to do what’s right for the game.

Current state of Warriors proves everything.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Videos-The-Wilsonian-Institute-11-11-13
bonus content: Warriors complaining about nerfs. How zany!

Please do your research.

I wonder why Thieves don’t trust ArenaNet to do the right thing.
source:

Compilation of Thief Nerfs (V 2.0)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/3173053

Most of those aren’t nerfs. Secondly, you may not like the adjustments but Anet must protect the health of the game. Many of us love our thieves but we like challenges. challenges aren’t for everyone though.

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

SoLeciTO.3490:

This video is a perfect evidence of how unfair anet is balancing the things.

This video prove that with a warrior:

1.- A clicker can rule in a big fight.
2.- You can walk in the middle of the fight with an AOE damage fest like nothing.
3.- You can bring a lot of sustain CC and AOE damage.
4.- You need 1/4 of the skill that requires a thief, engi, ele, mesmer to play.
5.- Don’t need to worry of reacting fast, there is almost no punishment to mistakes like a bad evade or escape skill use.

And trust me when i say this . . . i don’t ask to nerf warriors i’m happy that they enjoy this meta, i really do, but ANET must stop this no sense thief nerfing and consider this next dec 10.

Sample sizes of one prove nothing, sorry. Anet is fair and balanced. You don’t agree because you have a bias and its not your job to protect the health of the game. You and most thieves care only about your class.

You must be kidding. More like, sample size of the entire Warrior population. You can’t swing a cat around by its tail without hitting a Healing Signet Warrior of some type.

One video doesn’t prove anything. Anet has all the data. Trust them to do what’s right for the game.

SoLeciTO.3490:

This video is a perfect evidence of how unfair anet is balancing the things.

This video prove that with a warrior:

1.- A clicker can rule in a big fight.
2.- You can walk in the middle of the fight with an AOE damage fest like nothing.
3.- You can bring a lot of sustain CC and AOE damage.
4.- You need 1/4 of the skill that requires a thief, engi, ele, mesmer to play.
5.- Don’t need to worry of reacting fast, there is almost no punishment to mistakes like a bad evade or escape skill use.

And trust me when i say this . . . i don’t ask to nerf warriors i’m happy that they enjoy this meta, i really do, but ANET must stop this no sense thief nerfing and consider this next dec 10.

Sample sizes of one prove nothing, sorry. Anet is fair and balanced. You don’t agree because you have a bias and its not your job to protect the health of the game. You and most thieves care only about your class.

xmtrcv.5236:

Sanduskel.1850:

That’s a very limited view of survivability and perhaps why you struggled with your thief so much that you play another class. Stealth is the best tool for survivability.

Stealth != Survivability (in combat)

Stealth (and the benefits gained during) is easily countered by AOEs, channeled spells, melee auto-attacks, and random chance.

At best, it provides misdirection. For running away.

Then you aren’t using other things at your disposal – know when to dodge, know where to move etc.

That’s a very limited view of survivability and perhaps why you struggled with your thief so much that you play another class. Stealth is the best tool for survivability.

permastealth thief. cannot kill, they can reset and nick away at you with some big hits. easily the most annoying, which is why thieves who want a challenge don’t play this broken spec.

Little survivability? Are you kidding me? My thief has tons of survivability AND decent dps.

Being able to stealth in the middle of a fight is also lame, but perma stealth is abuse of game mechanics. Personally, I am happy to see it nerfed. It gives our class a horrible reputation.

AlexEBT.7240:

Kincaidia.3192:

Sorry, the red names only post enough to make us think that they care – just enough to be able to say “We asked for feedback didn’t we?”.

The patch was already decided before they came in and “got feedback”. Just try to reimagine your builds, as it’s all that’s left for us to do.

Or just reroll. Don’t forget that they base much of their balancing on metrics. If the number of thief players drops enough it may force them to actually do something about this whole balance mess.

Their metrics have led to the December patch plans… Cut both ways.

I am a thief, and there is no defense for perma stealth. It makes my class laughably easy and makes us universally hated. Just last night in map chat, it was universally agreed that perma stealth is opd as heck and annoying to boot. Don’t claim that perma stealthers can’t kill anyone, lol. I’ve played the spec and I could kill nearly all opponents. So mindlessly easy…

MyCondolences.8172:

And thats the problem with Thieves.
They are built around the fact that they can stealth and stealth in itself is a more or less crap skill. Doesnt negate any dmg, short duration, longish cooldown(matter of opinion).

Warriors on the other hand dont need stealth, they can just facetank the sort of dmg that would annihilate a thief.

I can negate a ton of damage while I a stealthed. Can heal and cleanse conditions too.

never please. if you want that go to wow.

Crawford.4135:

I’m having more fun on my Feral Druid these days. Besides it’s developed by a company that fired certain employees out of the company for good reason back in the days. (you know where they are now)

I have AntiAliasing, Smooth graphical game-play, abilities I can use while moving, more than 1 Skill bar on my screen, actual GMs within the game, actual game Options within the game, ect., ect. This could go on for days. Anyway, I don’t mind the Walt Disney graphics. At least it has a well educated development team behind it.

Lol this game is still 10x better than that one. they can keep their mediocre employees with that cartoonish game.

Warriors have issues, agreed. That much dps and survivability, coupled with massive cc is unfair.

Dagraan.2854:

so the vid of a thief harrassing a 30+ man zerg while killing and stomping people in the middle of the zerg and getting away easily is missing here, the video of a thief running around in the enemys spawn killing the merchants so they no longer work isn’t here.

the video of a thief perma stealthing mesmers in a keep or garri isn’t here.
the video of a naked thief killing people isn’t here.
the video of a thief spamming 2 and winning isn’t here.
the video of a thief not even trying in a 5v1 isn’t here.

the video of a necro tanking 4 people and 20 seconds of immobilize with just plague and death shroud isn’t here.

please tell me how a hammer warrior in pvt is OP? when you can easily counter him with stability.
or better yet, pistol 5 and stand there pressing 1 insta win against hammer warriors.

and you wish Anet gave you the nerf hammer every patch, then maybe you’ll have something to complain about when they constantly try to destroy 1 out of 2 viable builds, and put double Cd’s on everything if they miss.

Fair points

I think thieves are great at both.

I am being serious, it’s not all about perma stealth. I like the init changes. I agree with Jon that they are an improvement if used correctly. I don’t want those to get drowned out by all this negativity. I trust these developers to know their business. Some of the other changes are good for the class as well. They aren’t all nerfs. That’s my feedback to these changes. I don’t understand why this is considered derailing. Sheesh.

I am simply voicing my support of anet’s changes and requesting that they proceed to consider fixing current thief limitations such as ranged attacks. I am sorry that you disagree, by I am trying to support the class. This began because one poster claimed that anet only listened to bad players. I simply defended anet, so I don’t understand what the fuss is about.

In the patch notes and subsequent discussions from Jon, lol

Well permastealth was mentioned as part of the changes, so it seems related..

Noty angry. Just presenting facts. they wouldn’t be so insistent to fix this if they didn’t think it was a serious problem. abuse is abuse. it’s a strong word to use for something that you think isn’t a big deal.

Well apparently Anet disagrees. they basically said as much, using the term abuse when referencing this topic.

I disagree with your rant. Just because certain game breaking mechanics such as permastealth have been fixed doesn’t give you the right to attack a group of hard working developers, toiling to make the game better for everyone. You may not have gotten all you wanted, but it’s all for the health of the entire game.

Neoheart.2750:

Sanduskel.1850:

Neoheart.2750:

Sanduskel.1850:

Arganthium.5638:

Sanduskel.1850:

Stealthers aren’t this hated in other games because once they commit to a fight they can’t disappear mid fight. It’s clearly not a minority who hates this. Anet has the facts, and they wouldn’t respond to a minority. I for one, trust anet to do what’s right for the health of the game. They have data, we don’t.

This is absolutely and horrendously incorrect. I’ve developed hundreds of equations to describe a host of various aspects of the game, and in doing so I’ve been both criticized and completely rejected by a number of players who perhaps don’t think that their “amazing skillz” can be changed into numbers. And yet, here we have a case where it is in fact ANet with the numbers, and it’s credible? Certainly, throughout my studies of this game, no one has refuted my calculations, but I’ve received little credit for those whereas ANet is being hailed by people like you as some kind of truth-telling prophet. The truth of the matter is, when you truly understand what the kitten you’re doing when you play this game, it’s really not all that difficult to delve deeper into the mechanics and derive the usefulness of certain skills, utilities, and stats. So please, understand what you’re talking about before making broad, sweeping claims like that.

They wrote the code and they receive player feedback. I am sorry, but i trust them far more than I do inherently biased players.

Really? I’m willing to bet the people who wrote the code are off writhing more code for the next project. Even with the manpower requirements of mmorpgs a skeleton crew is still left behind. You can tell from arenanet responses, messages hell even the games content that this more than evident here.

To change skills almost completely over a year after launch shows one of two things (maybe both). That the team working now is almost completely different or inexperienced with developing this type of title.

Next you’ll be telling me Floyd mayweather prints his own t shirts down at the factory. It appears it’s you who has no idea what he is talking about. The original back end development team working for gems?! Lol.

Answer this, what was better Halloween 2012 or 2013? Then ask yourself why.

Neither. I don’t do pve.

Well although you may be able to li… your post history tells the truth. lol your smart “im too cool for pve” backfired. Do fractals much?

Why do you bother posting here anyway? seriously?

I post because I care..about this class. I’ve never done a fractal, honestly. Hate them.

Sure, offer your opinion. However claiming that they only listen to “bad players” isn’t true, provable or helpful.

SoLeciTO.3490:

The problem is that Anet listen to the wrong players (bad player than only kill mobs with #1).

The thief only excel killing bad players with no clue on thieves mechanics.

I have never seen a good player complaining about thieves, only bad players does.

And because of that is the current meta where thief is not good for anything but roaming and scaping.

Warriors? good AT EVERYTHING . . . why? because Anet listen to the wrong players (most of them play warrior because is the most easy prof).

- The best for dungeons
- The best for SPVP
- The best for for WvW (summary)

That’s your opinion. They listen to all of us, examine the data and make informed decisions. I know two anet employees who play thieves. They agree with the upcoming changes, but they have more information than you do.

Neoheart.2750:

Sanduskel.1850:

Arganthium.5638:

Sanduskel.1850:

Stealthers aren’t this hated in other games because once they commit to a fight they can’t disappear mid fight. It’s clearly not a minority who hates this. Anet has the facts, and they wouldn’t respond to a minority. I for one, trust anet to do what’s right for the health of the game. They have data, we don’t.

This is absolutely and horrendously incorrect. I’ve developed hundreds of equations to describe a host of various aspects of the game, and in doing so I’ve been both criticized and completely rejected by a number of players who perhaps don’t think that their “amazing skillz” can be changed into numbers. And yet, here we have a case where it is in fact ANet with the numbers, and it’s credible? Certainly, throughout my studies of this game, no one has refuted my calculations, but I’ve received little credit for those whereas ANet is being hailed by people like you as some kind of truth-telling prophet. The truth of the matter is, when you truly understand what the kitten you’re doing when you play this game, it’s really not all that difficult to delve deeper into the mechanics and derive the usefulness of certain skills, utilities, and stats. So please, understand what you’re talking about before making broad, sweeping claims like that.

They wrote the code and they receive player feedback. I am sorry, but i trust them far more than I do inherently biased players.

Really? I’m willing to bet the people who wrote the code are off writhing more code for the next project. Even with the manpower requirements of mmorpgs a skeleton crew is still left behind. You can tell from arenanet responses, messages hell even the games content that this more than evident here.

To change skills almost completely over a year after launch shows one of two things (maybe both). That the team working now is almost completely different or inexperienced with developing this type of title.

Next you’ll be telling me Floyd mayweather prints his own t shirts down at the factory. It appears it’s you who has no idea what he is talking about. The original back end development team working for gems?! Lol.

Answer this, what was better Halloween 2012 or 2013? Then ask yourself why.

Neither. I don’t do pve.

Arganthium.5638:

Sanduskel.1850:

Stealthers aren’t this hated in other games because once they commit to a fight they can’t disappear mid fight. It’s clearly not a minority who hates this. Anet has the facts, and they wouldn’t respond to a minority. I for one, trust anet to do what’s right for the health of the game. They have data, we don’t.

This is absolutely and horrendously incorrect. I’ve developed hundreds of equations to describe a host of various aspects of the game, and in doing so I’ve been both criticized and completely rejected by a number of players who perhaps don’t think that their “amazing skillz” can be changed into numbers. And yet, here we have a case where it is in fact ANet with the numbers, and it’s credible? Certainly, throughout my studies of this game, no one has refuted my calculations, but I’ve received little credit for those whereas ANet is being hailed by people like you as some kind of truth-telling prophet. The truth of the matter is, when you truly understand what the kitten you’re doing when you play this game, it’s really not all that difficult to delve deeper into the mechanics and derive the usefulness of certain skills, utilities, and stats. So please, understand what you’re talking about before making broad, sweeping claims like that.

They wrote the code and they receive player feedback. I am sorry, but i trust them far more than I do inherently biased players.

Zacchary.6183:

Don’t you mean “loud minority”? There are hundreds of them in this game. If you havn’t noticed, more people think of thieves as a joke rather than a threat.

---

I would like to add as an example:

Jagex revamped Runescape’s combat which cause over 50k players to end their subscription. Those 50k players did their best to ruin Jagex’s reputation by spamming youtube and several other sites in protest of the update. Even after 6 months of abuse by these players, Jagex is still standing with an extra game (07scape), a charity going on as well as bonds which players are eating up right now.

The community is now overall a better place because the loud and obnoxious minority (runescape’s PvP community) left.

---

In this case its quite the opposite since it seems anet is catering to the loud minority. Now you might think it’s just about permastealth which isn’t the problem in and of itself, but really its just general hatred for the profession and any buff will be met with backlash. In the end, thief players will just leave the profession and every new thief player will eventually find out how bad the profession is as a whole because the people who have complained this profession to death finally got what they wanted.

And as a price, this game now has 7.5 professions total.

That’s business for ya.

Stealthers aren’t this hated in other games because once they commit to a fight they can’t disappear mid fight. It’s clearly not a minority who hates this. Anet has the facts, and they wouldn’t respond to a minority. I for one, trust anet to do what’s right for the health of the game. They have data, we don’t.

decent thieves still do really well in this game. it just takes a little work.

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

Doesn’t change the fact that people hate it.

And that doesn’t change the fact that some of that hatred is due to a failure to learn on their part.

There are multiple threads and vids showing you how to handle thieves who use stealth and the ever popular “play the class to learn how it works” suggestion which ultimately works with EVERY profession.

Thieves handed everyone the tools just so people would stop crying so you can’t really justify breaking a profession just because people hate something they can handle.

i can handle it just fine. many of the rest of the players simply hate it, and ANET has been nerfing thieves ever since. it doesn’t matter what you think or other perma stealthers think. It’s a hated mechanic, anet called it abuse of the mechanics, and they are changing it. Warriors will eventually get the same treatment. People don’t like to swing at empty air hoping they hit an invisible enemy. it doesn’t matter whether you or I think they are bad players. They make up a large portion of the game, and they likely buy lots of gems for their pve. so anet will listen to them. Welcome to business.

I am happy because eliminated hated mechanics viewed as abusive will allow anet to help this class in ways that are acceptable to the casual player base….who pays the bills.

Travlane.5948:

IDK why anet doesnt see that thieves have no place in this game anymore. the only thing we can do decently…atleast til dec 10th… is ROAM! and roaming doesnt change much.

we have had 2 real buffs

FS/LS
STEAL

the other 200 changes were nerfs. 20 of which were super heavy nerfs. why do you continue to make the game worse aaaaaaaaand worse aaaaaaaaand worse? why not just buff other classes so the game is better…more options…better and stronger classes. i mean i know u have to tone down some things…but a big kitten nerf is just making classes weak. would be nice to have every class strong and leave it to the better PLAYER to win…not the better setup/mechanics/skills. anyway what do i know :P just a player since launch. i main a thief and finishing all my legendaries….1 left. bolt.

they have a place in this game. you are overdramatizing. people hate dying to enemies they never see and cannot target. I understand that. that’s why some of us don’t rely on perma stealth. it wrecks the class and draws all these nerfs.

Doesn’t change the fact that people hate it.

Zacchary.6183:

Most of the players aren’t complaining about the profession anymore. Thieves melt so easily in this meta that the only ones who use them are diehards.

I disagree. I hear and see them spew hatred for this class all the time.

Speak with the rest of the player base. They are the ones decrying our class for this hated mechanic.

Perma stealth is highly annoying. Many thieves can hit hard AND permastealth. I get grief for playing my thief characters all the time because of this utterly HATED and despised dynamic. In team speak and chat. everyone hate thieves because of this. I can’t wait for it to change.

No. Bad stealth mechanics, which is what they are fixing, are server side. They are fixing them without removing stealth. I am happy because they can address other problems with thieves without the playerbase erupting with cries of favoritism.

Perma stealth for example is not a player side problem. ANET admitted that permastealth is an unintended abuse of mechanics. look up the notes. they’ve stated so.

well eliminating some blatantly exploitable elements should allow anet to fix other problems such as our ranged deficit, etc. however, they cannot do those things when more players see thieves as op’d in wvw.

Stooperdale.3560:

Sanduskel you’re now up to 16 posts in this thread, none of which have said anything more than the first. Give it a rest.

Some of us thieves love the patch changes and don’t want anet to cave to the negative nancies that flood this forum.

Hype.8032:

Wouldn’t it be fun for once if they actually buffed a spec before they nerfed another part of it? The way mug was done is another example of a poorly done series of changes. Why wasn’t steal’s CD shortened the same time mug was nerfed? Why did we have to wait so long for the compensation? Nerfing sword now feels the same but we don’t even know if the future buff is even coming.

That would imbalance the thief. I’d rather they take it very slowly to keep other classes from hating thieves so much.

thieves are awesome in pvp. welcome back.

rchu.8945:

the hate of S/D thief from developers is beyond comprehension. RIP S/D thief forever.

They hardly hate thieves, lol. they are improving them along with fixing some exploitable elements next patch.

Jon. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and diligence your team has invested into this patch. I strongly encourage you to look to the health of the entire game, not the narrow self interest of a groups of parochial players. Don’t back down to the, as you’ve done in the past.

Once this patch goes live, down the road please look at a few improvements that this patch will now enable. Thief players are clamoring for improvements that would be imbalancing under the current state of thief mechanics.

Thank you

Zacchary.6183:

Its hard to trust someone with something when you know they know way less than you do about it.

i think you think they know less than you think you know.

Stooperdale.3560:

Sanduskel.1850:

Anet knows more about this class and they have much more data than we do. you need to trust them and not second guess their every move.

You’ve made a dozen posts in this thread saying exactly. Nobody has paid more attention to the 12th than to the 1st.

Saying exactly what?

Anet knows more about this class and they have much more data than we do. you need to trust them and not second guess their every move.

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

Arganthium.5638:

Sanduskel.1850:

Think we need to tone down the melodrama. certain elements were badly op’d. For the health of the game, Anet is fixing them. Thieves are fine now and will continue to be fine. Relax.

“Fixing”?! Yeah, because we needed more init regen to render half of our builds inviable… And the “stun break” on sword #2 which is the only way to avoid being eviscerated every five seconds by a warrior? Yeah, that needed “fixing” too.

Dont play a victim. they are making improvements too. decent thieves will continue to thrive. everyone gets mashed by warriors but that is getting nerfed too.

Post your videos. Would love to see.

google youtube sandusky