Guild Wars 2

What part of perma is difficult for you?

Mathias.9657:

I’m completely underwhelmed, all you posted was some fluff and meh balances. Cool, you’re going with the anti stealth route. Congrats on making S/D the only viable thief build in the years to come, ANet YOU SO SMART TEEHEE!

I think it’s even more silly you tied that mechanic to a ranger – who is almost impossible to backstab thanks to pet eating 90% of them because your targeting is absolutely atrocious. On top of their perma regen and protection I may as well just roll a ranger. Forgive me if rangers have been nerfed, last I played they were unkillable by a BS thief if they knew what they were doing. Hell they seem to have more evades than a thief.

I guess you’ll listen to thief QQ but ignore every other glaring issue with the game that players are crying about. I’m impressed, continue the amazing work.

If you can’t bs a ranger, you need to l2p. I find it easy on my thief. Rangers are pretty easy to kill in WvWvW. Seriously, L2p

Nice job demonstrating a lack of game mechanic comprehension. There is a world of difference. Decent thieves know that and choose the challenging path.

real thieves don’t need permastealth. i manage to do fine without that scrub crutch.

Bear.4931:

You seem to be missing the point, its about making things fair, giving everyone a level playing field. But fair doesn’t make sense to blobby blobbers I guess

Life isn’t fair. Get over it.

Bear.4931:

Everything is wrong with blobbing…

The fact is, blobbers blob in their blobby ways, because they cap things quicker and easier. So the solution is simple, just like in PvE where a boss scales depending on the people there, Towers/Keeps/Camps should scale depending on the number attacking. Obviously this cant be based on the numbers on a borderland, so I suggest a radius around towers and keeps equal to the range of a trebs. This way small groups will be equally as effective as blobs, thus rendering them useless.

So if a group of 10 people had 2 alpha golems attacking a gate, the group of 80 would need 15-20 to achieve the same % of damage to the gate

Anet, get to work!

Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with it.

What’s wrong with blobbing?

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

runeblade.7514:

I rather have Thieves be nerfed more than put out a band-aid fix like this crap.

Why do thieves need to be nerfed? They’re not that strong as is with the exception of Larcenous Strike spam, which is getting nerfed.

You don’t think they’re nerfing the wrong part of Larcenous Strike though? I didn’t think the boon ripping was as much of a problem as the high spammable damage on an evasive skill.

Regardless, and I just made this post elsewhere, but Shadow’s Rejuvenation is extremely strong in a perma stealth build, and could probably use some toning down to make builds that rely on perma stealth a little less forgiving.

agreed. perma stealth is what annoys people. Some of we thieves don’t need to perma stealth to win.

I can spam 8k+ hits on my thief. pretty easily.

Obscure One.4357:

Since so many thieves run such similar builds it’s possibly the first thing you learn to counter. It’s not easy, and took me months to figure out, but now if I get wrecked by a thief it’s due to the aforementioned mythical unicorn 20k backstab or they’re flat out better than me. More often than not I run into average to below average thieves and I have to apply more effort than one should have to in order to beat such unskilled play, attributed in large part to the stealth mechanics.

I’m fine with the skilled thieves beating me legitimately, but when I have to formulate an actual strategy against some Dagger Pistol smoke field blind spamming heartseeker scrub it’s tiresome. It not only devalues my skill, but is an insult to all skilled play when something so effective requires so little skill.

Thief is mechanically designed to skill spam, have unlimited access to stealth, and do extremely high single target damage, all without the player actively having to try. The only part that bothers me is the whole no-skill-required feature. I think thieves should be just as effective as they are now, but changes should make it vastly harder to do. I’m not a fan of scrub gamers, and because of that I kinda like having thieves around picking them off…but on the same token there are more scrubs playing thieves than anything else and a class that acts as GW2’s scrub screener should not harbor the bulk of them.

I’m not saying make it as hard to play as Engineer, my class has more ways to play one build than thief even has builds, but it at least needs to be as challenging as playing a full Cleric’s gear Guardian.

Agree with you. this is why I specced low steath evade spec on my thief. I wanted a challenge. Scrubs play d/p perma stealth thieves. skilled ones play for a challenge.

Shemsu.8721:

Knote.2904:

Shemsu.8721:

Carl the Well Endowed.6925:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Shemsu.8721:

RyuDragnier.9476:

All I want for Longbow is for the damage dealt at furthest range to be the normal damage across all ranges. But a longer distance should equal higher critical damage IMO.

All I want from backstab is for the damage dealt from behind to be the normal damage from all directions. But a stab from behind should equal higher critical damage IMO

This is completely different from backstab amigo. Backstab is burst damage, and is easy to pull off. Longbow’s #1 is outright useless outside of super long range and it’s very hard to do that in PvE, resulting in the weapon outright sucking to the point where it’s rarely used anywhere but WvW. Whereas the Dagger mainhand on a thief is powerful enough to be used in WvW, PvP, AND PvE.

so a MELEE attack thats only available with a special buff, AND requires specific position, is harder to pull off than a 1500 range spammable autoattack? You musta bought the good stuff this week, that or your doctor messed up your prescription. How about we make the under 25% of heartseeker damage apply to all the damage ranges? no, dont like that either. You cant have the full range damage at all ranges, that defeats the purpose, at best if you dont like the mechanic of damage changing on range, then take the mid range damage and make that all ranges, with no changes at full range (since you dont like things changing at full range)

If rangers actually had the ability to keep foes at long distance than this would make sense, but any class can close the distance and make the longbow almost completely useless. Sure we have the knockback but that is mitigated by stability and now stun break will also get you out of this. “Hunter’s Shot” should have a root similar to the warriors “Pin Down” making the lb a little more viable 1v1 (although it would still be next to useless unless the damage at close range is increased).

Again, this is not making sense. Your asking for a weapon designed to be long range, to be most effective at melee? I want my dagger to be effective at 1500 range, guess i shoulda picked a different weapon. Thats not what its for, every weapon (mostly) has a place and a purpose. If your going to fight up close, dont take longbow or make it effective at at short range, and take away the 1200-1500 range and bring it down to 120-300 like everyone elses close range weapons.

Ironically a lot of long range siege type weapons are far more effective in melee than they ever are at range.

Thief Shortbow Clusterbomb for instance.

Engy Grenades.

Guardian Sceptre.

Warrior Longbow.

Thief shortbow is long range siege? are you joking? Rangers can throw a dagger farther than thief can shoot a shortbow, thief shortbow is medium range at best, and thats assuming that the enemy doesnt sit down, have a cup of tea then sidestep (dont even have to dodge) one step away to avoid both of the damage attacks

actually ranger dagger and thief sb are the same range.

Straegen.2938:

Shenanigans! Black powder hitting for 1.5k?!? math:

• (84 * .25 * Power) * modifiers / Toughness

lets go crazy here:

• (84 * .25 * 4000) * 4 / 2000 = 168

As for 20k BS… again the math proves it is virtually impossible (a thief with 4k power and 4 on the modifier is buffed to the gods with a perfect strike):

• ((806 * 2.4 * 4000) * 4.00) / 2000 = 15.5k

against 3k toughness

• ((806 * 2.4 * 4000) * 4.00) / 3000 = 10.3k

In these cases, IMO the combat log is flat out lying and likely clumping several hits from multiple sources into one, some chopping has been done or a bug/cheat is in effect. It is also somewhat curious that a medium health pooled player soaked up 36k damage in about 2 seconds and didn’t die.

Or there is a bug with the combat mechanics allowing much larger hits.

So where are all the posts complaining about high thief evades? Lol. You are wrong.

Daendur.2357:

Sanduskel.1850:

Daendur.2357:

Sanduskel.1850:

Good thieves don’t need perma stealth. I welcome a reduction of stealth on my thief with open arms since I spec evade. Scrub thieves need perma stealth as a crutch to troll.

I’m waiting for the day they will nerf evade on thieves to write something like:
“Good thieves don’t need perma evade. I welcome a reduction of evasion on my thief with open arms since I spec stealth. Scrub thieves need perma evade as a crutch to troll.”
good day.

No one hates evades, lol. Attacking a decent thief who knows when and how to evade is a fun challenge, unlike playing against the scrub perma stealth clowns. By all means, lobby for evade nerfs! Lol

When stealth will be nerfed enough, thieves will start to use evasion builds, ppl will start complaining about perma evade thieves like they are doing with stealth.

Stealth has counters. Just use them or leave the perma stealth thief alone…

I play high evade thief. People actually enjoy fighting me. You are wrong.

Daendur.2357:

Sanduskel.1850:

Good thieves don’t need perma stealth. I welcome a reduction of stealth on my thief with open arms since I spec evade. Scrub thieves need perma stealth as a crutch to troll.

I’m waiting for the day they will nerf evade on thieves to write something like:
“Good thieves don’t need perma evade. I welcome a reduction of evasion on my thief with open arms since I spec stealth. Scrub thieves need perma evade as a crutch to troll.”
good day.

No one hates evades, lol. Attacking a decent thief who knows when and how to evade is a fun challenge, unlike playing against the scrub perma stealth clowns. By all means, lobby for evade nerfs! Lol

I’ve done backstabs for much higher than 8 k against 3k+ armor targets. So you are wrong, sorry. I also cannot be one hit, lol.

If you want a challenge. It’s not that bad, but not for scrubs.

You can attack from stealth, but whatever it takes. Staying stealthed during combat is a broken mechanic though.

what is truth? how can you know what you think you know?

jonwar.4186:

I threw my hands up in disgust when I first read the notes about this but I seriously wont care less until they give it to every class, that’s when I think this “ability” will become a problem because at that point arena net may as well take stealth out of the game altogether.

Even if a ranger actually decides to roll with this utility, itll just indicate to me that these players are raging when I still drop them. ranger tears…mmmmm

you may struggle with the bunker specced ones. i find them a challenge

Burnie – not helpful at all. The so called nerf isn’t really that much of a nerf, especially if you don’t rely too much on stealth.

Burnfall – your rants about thieves aren’t productive. Not all thieves seek an easy way out. Please refrain. thank you.

Anet seems to think that their esport program is special. They haven’t learned that their key competitive advantage is in wvw. There’s really nothing comparable right now. the gw2 esport is mediocre at best.

Penguin.5197:

DevonCarver.5370:

Dese.1382:

MiLkZz.4789:

Imagine you taking down 1 gate/wall of a a keep/tower. Imagine 50 people inside which ain’t that abnormal. Imagine they all chaining their aoe into the gap. Good luck walking through and surviving.

Aoe cap is there not only for the servers, but also because some things will be just impossible to cap and some classes will be rediculously OP. Like Ele and ranger, no. If aoe is unlimited, make healing unlimited aswel and all the other spells. But OOPS, we are back to 0 than…

So yea aoe cap is there for a really really good reason.

There is a dev post flat out saying, in plain english, its there for the simple reason of server performance.

I will say it again. If the cap were raised performance would suffer greatly. That is why it hasn’t been changed.

Even a cap raise to at least ten would still be too much? Because at the moment it sometimes feels like 5 is too small

it’s an exponential increase. so, yes it would. just do the math.

DoctorOverlord.8620:

Zero Day.2594:

DoctorOverlord.8620:

Adding more anti-stealth is an improvement. And good to hear it implied that more is on the way.

It seems like this is always case with any MMO that has used instant invisibility cloaking as their stealth mechanic. The mechanic gets put in and then the game sees a constant series of necessary nerfs in an endless effort to balance it.

Mind explaining how thieves and some mesmer would feel? Any buff’s for them to counter-act over-nerfing? or just beat on one class, without much explanation or re-balancing?

I have a level 80 mesmer and a thief is one of my alts and I still see invsio-stealth as a terrible mechanic in MMOs.

I’m sure that ArenaNet will handle the balancing as best as they can, I’m simply pointing out that every MMO I have seen with this mechanic has been plagued by a constant need to adjust it. This is not the last time we will stealth being tweaked and it will continue as long as GW2 exists.

It is a pity that ArenaNet could not have come up with some alternative to inviso-stealth that worked better without the endless need for tuning.

No other decent MMO has allow perma stealth during combat. ANET should lengthen stealth time out of combat but shut down any stealth once in combat. Good thieves would be fine with that change, trust me.

Heizero.9183:

I am really concerned that people in this thread talk about 15-16k BS crits…. i mean seriously. You would have to be naked and traited for 0 defense while fighting a full glass cannon thief that can get 2 shotted himself.

On a squishy target i crit about 6k or 7k on my thief. I don’t usually care about threads like this since i love my Thief. But blatant lies to trash another class is pretty gross.

I can back stab >10K routinely. I’ve even talked to the people i’ve killed that way in chat after I’ve invited them. several have armor >3K. So your belief is inaccurate.

high evade builds can be challenging.

true thieves aren’t suffering….they don’t need perma stealth to win.

Of course. I like beating helpless opponents to a pulp. I play a thief after all.

Good thieves don’t need perma stealth. I welcome a reduction of stealth on my thief with open arms since I spec evade. Scrub thieves need perma stealth as a crutch to troll.

Shemsu.8721:

Sanduskel.1850:

Shemsu.8721:

Sanduskel.1850:

Okaishi.8320:

Regarding the change to Sic ’em, giving a specific class a counter to stealth is just stupid in my opinion, and I think it’s the wrong kind of counter anyway. For me it would make perfect sense to nerf perma stealth in a different way, perhaps like limiting the amount of times you can stack stealth to 2 or 3 times? I think the main problem with stealthing is how it can be easily abused to stay stealthed for very long periods of time, and this would make doing that impossible.

l2p without perma stealth. some of us thieves can manage without that crutch.

The addition of a noskill one button hard counter to stealth will barely tickle perma-stealth but it will severely hurt all normal thief stealth builds. It’s completely the wrong direction. Add a 3-4 second internal cooldown to infusion of shadow, problem solved.

it’s a good start. I look forward to every class being able to clean out the scrubs who rely on perma stealth. I do just fine without it.. It’s funny how the perma stealthers now come out with all sorts of solutions now. My fellow thieves sometimes annoy me.

That’s a really great counter argument, you bring up some valid points… Ohhh wait you didnt, just more gibberish from a troll

Well, I am sorry that you are struggling with your thief. I find my thief to be way too easy in WvWvW.

Dee Jay.2460:

Technically Dagger/Pistol is currently the “go to” Thief WvW spec, combined with either a 0/30/30/10/0 or a 0/20/30/20/0 build.

It has a series of advantages over the good old Dagger/Dagger as in it offers you a chance to go toe to toe with Warriors thanks to Black Powder and you can hide in Stealth near infinitely. It also doesn’t need a target to get into Stealth so you have a much easier time against other Stealth classes.

On the down side the entire Stealth mechanic (combo field + leap) is very convoluted and prone to nuisances like accidentally leaping into certain targets and getting revealed. In general it’s probably the most unintuitive Stealth mechanic in game.

But I have no doubt it is currently superior to any Dagger/Dagger build out there, simply because of the importance of Black Powder and Headshot in the current meta. I mean even just being able to interrupt revives is worth a lot.

This is exactly why they are putting in a stealth counter. Stealth wasn’t intended to be infinite.

No I don’t see the problem at all. Getting revealed wont eliminate stealth, but throttle it so that the game is a little challenging for thieves. WvWvW really is t very challenging with stealth being impossible to counter. I really don’t mind a decent challenge.

I seriously suggest that you go try a low stealth reliant thief then come discuss this.

Shemsu.8721:

Sanduskel.1850:

Okaishi.8320:

Regarding the change to Sic ’em, giving a specific class a counter to stealth is just stupid in my opinion, and I think it’s the wrong kind of counter anyway. For me it would make perfect sense to nerf perma stealth in a different way, perhaps like limiting the amount of times you can stack stealth to 2 or 3 times? I think the main problem with stealthing is how it can be easily abused to stay stealthed for very long periods of time, and this would make doing that impossible.

l2p without perma stealth. some of us thieves can manage without that crutch.

The addition of a noskill one button hard counter to stealth will barely tickle perma-stealth but it will severely hurt all normal thief stealth builds. It’s completely the wrong direction. Add a 3-4 second internal cooldown to infusion of shadow, problem solved.

it’s a good start. I look forward to every class being able to clean out the scrubs who rely on perma stealth. I do just fine without it.. It’s funny how the perma stealthers now come out with all sorts of solutions now. My fellow thieves sometimes annoy me.

i will impact perma stealth. you are incorrect.

other thieves manage to do just fine without using perma stealth. learn to do so. too much stealth makes johnny a bad player.

Okaishi.8320:

Regarding the change to Sic ’em, giving a specific class a counter to stealth is just stupid in my opinion, and I think it’s the wrong kind of counter anyway. For me it would make perfect sense to nerf perma stealth in a different way, perhaps like limiting the amount of times you can stack stealth to 2 or 3 times? I think the main problem with stealthing is how it can be easily abused to stay stealthed for very long periods of time, and this would make doing that impossible.

l2p without perma stealth. some of us thieves can manage without that crutch.

decent thieves don’t need perma stealth to win. i don’t rely on that garbage because only horrible players need that exploit to win. I am a thief and I agree with the OP. stealth in this game is a horrible mechanic. anet should be ashamed of it. It makes this game a laughingstock. thieves are laughably easy with permastealth.

timidobserver.7925:

There is this one dev on TC that turns on his Anet tag and then rocks people that try to solo him. He plays a thief.

thank goodness they all play thieves. they can see how oppressed we poor thieves are.

I am sorry for predating your women and children.

i guess you think that anet hates thieves, lol. we have been blessed with extremely strong 1v1 skills, so i cant complain.

lethlora.1320:

not going to beef too kitten that line, but i wonder how reducing larcenous strike’s effectiveness by half is a “slight” change.

Sanduskel.1850:

these nerfs are really immaterial. if you want to see real nerfs take a look at what they’ve done to mesmers or rangers. my thief never really felt these nerfs.

then you weren’t using any of the strong skills when they were strong, because some of these nerfs were rather major. dancing dagger is the one I remember being most irked by.

perhaps, but i didn’t need the permastealth crutch.

i hate raiding. please never introduce that garbage.

Aberrant.6749:

xephire.8324:

Aberrant.6749:

xephire.8324:

Aberrant.6749:

xephire.8324:

NO thank you.I want easy boss so that i can smash it quickly and get my loot.

Not sure if serious…

I’m dead serious

But… you already have so many of those. Does every single boss really need to be like that? Isn’t that selfish to ask? Why not have a wide spectrum of boss difficulty so that there will be something for everyone?

Yep saves time.

And makes for an extremely boring game that only those who want quick rewards with no challenge will want to play.

we want to wvw and do other things more interesting. after about a week, this will get stale.

people rely too much on perma stealth, and it enrages other players. giving every class a chance to counter it is healthy for the game.

these nerfs are really immaterial. if you want to see real nerfs take a look at what they’ve done to mesmers or rangers. my thief never really felt these nerfs.

that’s fine. it’s your opinion. alll i can say is that i do fine on my thief without perma stealth.

yes, highly viable in pve.

no need for petty personal attacks. learn to play without perma stealth as the rest of us have.