Guild Wars 2

Who knows which side is the minority or the majority. None of us can poll every player who is aware of this situation and the forum will always be biased towards those that do not agree with whatever is done due to human nature (our threshold to complain vocally about something is a lot lower than our threshold to praise vocally about something for many people). And any claims of such are invalid. You can say “the majority/minority of the people I’ve talked to”, but you can’t claim of the entire game’s active population.

While I think the elite spec unlock is a bit too much, I’d much rather ANet take time to come up with a good solution, even if that takes time, than implement the first solution they think will work just to appease fans. I’d rather the system only chance once and not multiple times. And even if that is too late for my first character to benefit. This will set the precedent for future elite spec unlocks.

On how many characters have you unlocked more than half of your elite spec?

The majority of the players complaining either have a fair number of alts or primarily only play WvW.

The conversion rate for WvW means they have to rank up (the equivalent of leveling up) 200 times per character. And those levels don’t get any easier or quicker the more you do them. It’s currently making players in WvW not play that mode as intended. They’re letting players on the other sides take things and then later taking it back when they come around full circle for the WXP. WvW isn’t supposed to happen like that.

If you’ve only done it on one character, how long do you think it will remain not a grind for you? 2 more characters? 3? Now imagine you’ve got 9 characters you want to equip elite specs on. Or more because you’re wanting to have multiple builds. Or you have a WvW version of each class you enjoy playing.

And those complaining aren’t saying to give it to them yesterday. Just to tweak the numbers slightly so they don’t have to fully explore all 4 maps and/or unlock all of the masteries before fully unlocking their elite. Or so they don’t have to sit in a WXP train in WvW. They want to experience new content with their elite spec. Not have all of the new content done before fully unlocking their elite spec.

Alukah.2063:

Jarvice.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Any skill challenges that you did out in the world (now Hero Challenges), those points where converted into the new HP (not shards).

Essentially the only existing skill points that got converted into spirit shards were those “in excess” of the calculation for the HPs given to you for your current level + challenges completed. So, any you got from “leveling” after 80, or from popping skill point scrolls were what got converted.

I see… Well I mostly farmed skill points in PvP and stuff. I had about 200 in my inventory (I kept them in my inventory in case I changed my mind about my favorite elite spec) and I guess those are now spirit shards…

Yeah, even if you used them before you quit they would’ve turned into spirit shards, only skill points from leveling and open world were turned into hero points, so you didn’t get screwed up, you have / are able to get exactly the same amount of hero points as everyone else, since there’s a static amount of hero points from leveling and open world.

Clarification, only the ones you got for leveling to 80. The ones you got for “leveling up” after you hit 80 got turned into spirit shards.

Rose Solane.1027:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Eponet.4829:

The difficulty isn’t too high. The fact that by the time you get it, you’ve already gone through more than half the maps is the issue. If they were all put in the first area, there would at least be three maps to experience at our own pace and explore for the sake of exploring instead of because we’re forced to in order to get the class mechanics (Which were designed to fill holes in the base classes) to function fully.

I feel that’s very valuable feedback. Thanks for that insight.

I agree with that this is valuable feedback (looking at most of the other posts in this thread) but I disagree with the content of it. I believe that mastering an elite specialization is something that should take time, just as it takes time to level a character and get the “normal” specializations. The only “valid” point of this post is that it takes exploration to get the elite specialization. I do like to do map completion so that doesn’t bother me, but I can see the point. What I don’t understand is why it is so necessary to rush through three maps to get your elite specialization. But that is probably the main issue here. I believe that the elite specialization is something to work for and will come in time. Many here believe it should have been available at the start of HoT.

No one’s saying it shouldn’t take time. Just that the current amount of time is high considering how many players have multiple alts and the game has recently made strides to become more alt friendly. This decision is not alt friendly.

The lack of communication that ANet considered elite specs as part of the progression (I believe they had only talked about masteries being that progression) and more details on the system didn’t come out until 3 days from launch meant players got the expectation that getting 100% map completion in Central Tyria with regards to hero points would be enough progression to unlock them (or within 2-3 challenges at most) fully. And they based their expectations on the fact that ANet had been more alt friendly lately and the core specs. If this had come out pretty much on top of releasing details on elite specs themselves, the degree of anger would be less as players wouldn’t be upset about learning about that 3 days from launch (on top of the anger at the amount) and would have had plenty of time to judge whether they wanted to buy the game or not. Or get a refund or not.

As for me, I think it is too high, but I can’t really say for sure as I haven’t really been trying for it. I got frustrated after failing to find hero challenges (I had a long day at work so my frustration could have come from being exhausted from the long day) and decided to work toward my personal story and masteries.

And enough people have to be people who have played WvW. The pure PvE players don’t count towards that number.

So unless a good incentive crops up to transfer to a less active WvW server, I wouldn’t hold your breath if you’re wanting to get into a Tier 1 server. If you’re on a less active world, you could try to convince them to join your server if it isn’t full.

There’s a portion doing Halloween events

There’s a portion who do not have HoT

There’s a portion who aren’t going to log in today due to it being launch day

There’s a portion leveling up Revenants or other characters the old fashion way and aren’t to Level 80 yet

There’s a portion ignoring events and going straight for the hero challenges

There’s a portion jumping from personal story mission to personal story mission and not spending too much time in the open world.

MyriadStars.5679:

SkiTz.4590:

welcome to the business of… well.. doing business lol.

What about “goodwill”? At least in gaming industry, this should be a very important asset.

What Anet is doing now for HOT is often done by companies that do not plan to be in business for long and just want to grab as much money as possible for now. This really makes me worry about the future of the Guild Wars franchise.

Unfortunately, employees can’t pay their own bills with goodwill nor can ANet pay it’s own bills with goodwill. At some point, companies have to do things to turn a profit. And sometimes those decisions lead to unpopular game directions.

That being said, I neither agree nor disagree with the OP on the fractals issue as I haven’t played fractals enough to know what the rewards were before and what they are now and what now requires HoT or what doesn’t.

If they have locked previously available rewards behind HoT, that is a pretty horrible move. New rewards is fine, but old rewards is low.

Labjax.2465:

Eh, from what I’ve been able to glean from reading stuff, it’s not going to be as bad as people are imagining. I think it’s gonna be one of those things you’ll feel on the 3rd or 4th character, but you won’t notice a whole lot the first time around.

Depending on how many masteries you need for the first you may feel it on your first more than on your second since the second would go faster.

You don’t get hero points when you level up past 80. There are only a finite amount of hero points. You can get spirit shards from a variety of actions, including doing the dailies.

Elementalist (level 80 and my main): 209
Warrior (level 80): 206
Ranger (level 51): 47
Mesmer (level 51): 71
Guardian (level 46): 2

And you only get 2 character slots if you’ve been around since before HoT was announced. Otherwise, you just get 1 character slot.

I’m excited.

Little wary of how the hero point situation will affect my ability to enjoy the jungle. Unless I decide to level up a Revenant first, but I’ll likely want to pop into the jungle at some point during launch to do the personal story on my Elementalist (who may or may not go Tempest)

Agemnon.4608:

I’m mostly concerned about class balance and how salvaging nerfs will effect the economy both as a supplier and buyer. I care more about Halloween content especially since it’s seasonal whereas I can level a revenant anytime afterward. Hero points only have to be unlocked once per character and it’s nice having long-term goals that don’t involve buying weapon skins and dyes or the mats needed to mystic forge them.

I think you mean masteries and not hero points, right?

I doubt it will be months unless you’ve got limited time. While the first character you take through will take longer due to masteries blocking access to hero challenges, you only need 40 of them. Just think of how long it takes you to complete the maps currently and see how many hero challenges are on the map and judge from there.

There may be some skill involved if the challenges are more difficult on average than the average current hero challenges.

sharkswithlazers.7632:

I hear your argument, but I don’t think grinding hero points “skips” content. That’s actually precisely what I want to avoid. I want to enjoy the Elite spec I’ve been hyped about for a year while enjoying the story and new maps etc. I put time in to achieve just that goal. Let’s face it, finding 20 hero challenges won’t take long and if I didn’t have to do that, I wouldn’t be “skipping” content.

That said, I realize I was hasty with the Gift of Mastery. I also realize that I should play the xpac to reap xpac rewards. It’s just I could swear I’ve read somewhere, (I’ll look it up when I’m not so tired) that people with map completion should have access to their elite specs from the get-go. I realize this was too early and that plans change. No biggie. I still am frustrated that I put in so much time because I wanted to have the aforementioned instant access to the elite specs just to find out that I only finished half of what I need in the most inefficient way possible.

We will. I highly doubt you have to get all 400 hero points before you start spending the points on the elite spec. They just won’t have all traits or skills yet.

Arewn.2368:

You made hasty preparations based on early release, vague, non-finalized information.

Honestly, there really wasn’t much in the way of “preparation” that needed to be done for Heart of Thorns. It’s mostly busy-making.
You basically made up work for yourself to do, spent time doing that work, and then were disappointed that the work didn’t pay off as much as you wanted it to.

For example, “making 2 legendaries” has nothing to do with preparing for Heart of Thorns. And preparing mats for the new legendaries before we even knew what they were, let alone what they’ll be made of, is risky no matter how you look at it.

And the hero point situation was handled fairly appropriately. The priority should be on systems that will have you actually play the xpac, not cater to people who “prepared” prior to it’s release so that they can skip the xpac’s content. You aren’t being punished for preparing, you’re just not being explicitly rewarded for it. Which sounds right to me.

My advice would be to be careful of hypetrains, make informed decisions, and keep in mind that things which are in-development are very much subject to change.

I get where you’re coming from. There’s nothing wrong with being excited for the new content, and it’s natural to look for things to do while you wait. I just don’t think your expectation on how the developers should handle it are warranted.
I do however admit that not knowing the cost of elite specs for so long left us in a bit of an awkward situation.

Hearing the exact number of hero points 3 days before launch when the number required for 1 elite spec given what players were asking and talking about doing on launch day for weeks now is appropriate? When at this point even if ANet wanted to change it, they couldn’t change it in time for launch most likely? Not giving more details out on the system or even a simple explanation on the why they chose the numbers they chose is right? When neither of those options caters to the players who have an issue?

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

Lol

Guess you’re ceding this argument to me, if you can’t come up with anything more than a lol.

And unless you’re next response is a serious response, I’m done with you as you apparently don’t have anything more to say.

Lol was because you don’t pay attention to what you write and would rather blame me for your lack of comprehension. Perhaps you should go back and reread things, then reflect on the way you communicate so you can learn to be clear the first time with your “intended messages”.

I pay attention to what I write, thank you very much. I’m not seeing where my messages are different. I’m really not. So maybe you can enlighten me. Instead of just saying they are different. Because that’s how good communication goes. When one person gets a different interpretation each should say how they view it so that both can see where the wires got crossed. You just saying you’re reading it differently makes me think you’ve since changed your mind but are too proud to say otherwise. While that may not be true, it is one interpretation. And the one I shall take until such time as you explain to me in detail (and not just quoting my messages and/or saying they are different) how they are different.

I already explained the differences in your two posts.

I’m not going to drag on this off topic stuff because I’d rather devote my words to the hero point rebellion.

Good luck with your future posts!

You explained how I worded it differently. Not how the meaning was different. There’s a difference.

But I’ll agree to disagree as well.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Taerdan.6712:

Let me get this straight, in the current game there are an average of less than 40 challenges per Zone: Maguuma Jungle, Ascalon, Kryta, Shiverpeak Mountains, and Orr. This is proven because there are 5 Zones and 189 Hero Challenges counted toward Map Completion. Assuming that there are at least 40 Hero Challenges in Heart of Thorns means that the Challenge density will be about the same (or greater) as the current game.

You’d require most of this “more than enough” number to get the spec with all its traits and skills, also known as the reason you’re getting it. That isn’t so bad, right? Complete effectively three maps to get an elite specialization?

Even then, I can beeline the 20-40 challenges and get the spec to complete the majority of the game expansion, right? I suppose, but even then, you’re going through most of the maps trying to get around half the available challenges. Why most of the maps? Well, Masteries, of course! Many of the new Hero Challenges will require the new Mastery system’s abilities, like gliding, to be able to access, not to mention that some require more advancement into a Mastery to be able to acces. So, to get my 20 challenges to finally get my spec, I will need to go through most of the content or get most of the Masteries before I can complete the spec with usable Grandmaster traits. (Because I’m totally for having partial specs slotted. They are so useful to have not even half the traits and abilities.) At that point, for many people, most of the point of having the spec – to be able to use it in the new content – is completely wasted by requiring me to go through and discover most/all waypoints so I can beam back if I fall or otherwise die trying to get to the Challenges.

Keep in mind, I don’t have more than one of each class, and my expectation is still to take weeks into months to get these Specializations.

Here the TL;DR heart of the matter
No one expected the Elite Specializations to be our reward for finishing Heart of Thorns, we expected to be able to play Heart of Thorns with them

The people not complaining are the ones who have map completion on the characters they want the specs unlocked on. For them things are a bit easier. Here are the numbers (again)

398 hero points from level up awards.

398 is exactly the number of hero points required to unlock each core specialization trait line and max it (60 each, 5 for each class) and all of your utility and elite skills combined are 98. So you’re left with nothing if you have everything unlocked and you’ve done no hero challenges. For these characters you’re coming into HoT with zero hero points. Your first six hero challenges on the first HoT map will take some time to work though, once you’ve completed those six challenges you will have 60 hero points which unlocks the Elite Specialization but gives you 0 trait unlocks (keep in mind on the core specializations 60 hero points is all that’s required to go from 0 to max on the trait line… For our Elite spec those 60 hero points just unlock it. You have to spend about ~200 points to take the trait line from 0 to max. So for those players you will probably be all the way though the second map in HoT (there are only three) and have grinded your way though Mastery’s, etc… only to finally be able to play with your Elite spec unlocked and trait tree maxed for the last 30% of HoT.

For those who have done world completion and not spend hero points on crafting (shards work as substitute now but they never gave us back those hero points we spent). If you’ve spent none of the hero challenge points you’ll go into HoT with 213 all world maps) meaning you will have enough to unlock the elite trait line right away and probably max out the trait line before you make it off the first map.

The ones who have the world competition/hero challenge 200+ hero points banked up don’t understand what the big deal is. They have despised you all along for not understanding the value of map competition. “You MUST have it for your Legendary anyway and we no every player is working towards a legendary skin” Not but that is the perspective those us don’t understand casual MMO playing take. They spend 20,40,60 hours in game every week. When things went stale and you moved on to another game you left them all alone in GW2 and out of sheer boredom they’ve done map competition on all their alts because they were loyal to the game and you weren’t they deserve this and you deserve to be kittened on.

Here are some quotes from ArenaNet developers prior to the 2012 launch
“… We do not believe in grind. Nobody likes that”
“… We want our game to be accessible to those who have full lives. We don’t want players to feel left behind just because they want to spend time with their family. We have families too”
“… We don’t want to make it so you feel bound to our game. We play other games to. The great thing about GW2 is you can leave and come back and you don’t have a subscription to pay for while you’re gone”

Heart of Thorns “must unlock eltie specs” goes against everything they the spirit and philosophy of the visionaries behind the core game.

All anyone will care about is focusing on unlocking their elite specs. Parties will be in the jungle hunting for hero challenges. All the effort on story missions, adventures, etc.. will be ignored until that goal is obtained for players mains and alts and yes that will take weeks, months for many. So on those grounds HoT is all about the grind. We want to experience the story with the Elite Specs and if ANet isn’t going to allow players to do that they will go get the Elite Specs first.

It’s ridiculous for a game design team to view core functional play mechanics that define the game user experience as something that must be earned. If you say Elite Specs are not core functional play mechanics of HoT we are going to disagree. Now many will have to wait months to get to unlock them.

I spent skill points on things before the change and I didn’t have any missing hero points or spirit shards when the conversion happened.

They basically wiped the skill points out completely.

They gave hero points at different level ups until 80. This gives 398 hero points exactly.

They then took the total experience each character had and calculated how many times a character leveled past 80 if the character was level 80 already. These got converted to spirit shards.

Added to the spirit shard count were any skill point consumable items that you had in inventories or in your bank.

No one lost hero points by spending the skill points instead of unlocking skills before the change.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

Lol

Guess you’re ceding this argument to me, if you can’t come up with anything more than a lol.

And unless you’re next response is a serious response, I’m done with you as you apparently don’t have anything more to say.

Lol was because you don’t pay attention to what you write and would rather blame me for your lack of comprehension. Perhaps you should go back and reread things, then reflect on the way you communicate so you can learn to be clear the first time with your “intended messages”.

I pay attention to what I write, thank you very much. I’m not seeing where my messages are different. I’m really not. So maybe you can enlighten me. Instead of just saying they are different. Because that’s how good communication goes. When one person gets a different interpretation each should say how they view it so that both can see where the wires got crossed. You just saying you’re reading it differently makes me think you’ve since changed your mind but are too proud to say otherwise. While that may not be true, it is one interpretation. And the one I shall take until such time as you explain to me in detail (and not just quoting my messages and/or saying they are different) how they are different.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

Lol

Guess you’re ceding this argument to me, if you can’t come up with anything more than a lol.

And unless you’re next response is a serious response, I’m done with you as you apparently don’t have anything more to say.

Swagger.1459:

I’m assuming you won’t bother to look so I’ll quote it for you. Also, you should really pay more attention to our conversation. To think that I’m referencing any other post besides the ones I quoted, and that you replied to already, shows your lack of awareness to put mildly.

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Edit- your op didn’t copy over…

You…
“That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.”

Seera.5916:

Swagger.1459:

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 states that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they would adjust their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes. Both 1 and 2 you mentioned more time for players to prepare so that’s the only consistent message between the two. You made zero reference to anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

You only quoted (or at least the only quote that showed when I was responding, you edited after I saw the post and responded) the post where I went into detail. There are many different threads going on and I’ve been jumping into multiple ones so telling me a previous post differed from the one you just quoted wasn’t enough for me to know which post of mine you were referring to. Hence, why I asked you to quote the message. To avoid any confusion as to which message you meant. I didn’t want to pick post A if you meant post B, etc. If you had previously quoted that message, I’m sorry that I don’t have a photographic memory and can remember who quoted what and when and that I’m not a mind reader and therefore couldn’t know that you were referring to that missed post and not to a post I said to someone else. I’m sorry.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

I edited the original so go back and look at it. We could have others analyze it and they would tell you your messages were different. Go look at it

Yea, it says the same thing in different words. And expanded out. I’m supposed to just copy and paste my responses because heaven forbid I say more in a later post. Or just paraphrase and never add anything else to my posts? Really?

“As much of an issue” does not mean that people who have an issue suddenly don’t have an issue.

If on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no issue and 10 huge issue, “as much of an issue” could mean going from 10 on the scale down to 8. Where it’s still an important issue to you, just not as much of an issue.

So not seeing how my two posts say differing things. The second says the same as the first and goes into more details.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Post 1 implies that the players would be more accepting of the amount needed because they adjusted their own expectations. You made no mention of developer possible changes in the first post like you did in the second post.

In post 1 I argued they would still have an issue because the system would be the same regardless of announcement timing.

Post 2 states the devs could possibly make changes and players would be less stress given more time. You made no mention of anything related to number 3 in your first post.

Those two posts expressed two very different messages… Sorry

I’ve posted more than twice in this thread. Please quote the message. Thank you.

Edit: I’m beginning to think you’re the one with the reading comprehension problem and it’s not a case of a misunderstanding. This is the third time I’ve asked you to quote the message.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

That’s not how you phrased it before though.

Sure to this post.

Yes it is exactly how I phrased it, please don’t tell me what I meant by my own posts. Please quote where I phrased it any differently and I can explain how you misread it.

What you meant and what you said were two different things. Go reread those two posts again and you’ll see.

It happened to the best of us, it’s ok buddy

What I said is what I meant and it reads just like I meant it.

So again: please quote what reads differently than how I stated it in the other post. Please.

DeceiverX.8361:

Sure. I do recall it being several hundred level ups, though.

Would actually be kind of funny if the elite specs were heavily-gated behind this. Maybe PvE players would begin to understand the feelings WvW’ers are experiencing now.

Some PvE players do I understand. I for one do.

Hopefully, the skills and traits are in the line first and all of the cosmetic stuff comes after. And that the skills and traits don’t require that many hero points all together and the cosmetic stuff requires a good chunk of the points.

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FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

That’s not how you phrased it before though.

Sure to this post.

Yes it is exactly how I phrased it, please don’t tell me what I meant by my own posts. Please quote where I phrased it any differently and I can explain how you misread it.

It is P2W. The traits that you would pick make you stronger, last longer, or able to kill your opponent faster.

I do not support anything pay to win and this would be pay to win.

So, again, no.

Black Box.9312:

Seera.5916:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Random.4691:

Seriously the lack of red post, not that I should be surprised, it’s like that child that was caught doing something they shouldn’t so they just hide because that makes everything better. I guess they really didn’t learn from their FAQ scandal.

Given that the vast majority of the complaints in this thread are by a small handful of people and that most of it was posted during Anet’s downtime, this really shouldn’t be a surprise.
People are trying to be very loud about their complaints, but so far the actual number of people complaining really isn’t that high.

That and we’re within 2 days of launch. The devs may not have time for posting on the forums that much or the permission to interrupt the devs that know the answers to the questions we have about this.

They have people who are working for them for the literal purpose of relaying messages to and from the community and dev teams. This is not a valid excuse.

Yes, but the dev teams may be too busy to answer questions given how close we are to launch. So the messengers have told to only interrupt if it’s important and they may not view giving explanation for the choice as important enough to warrant an interruption.

No. That smacks of actual pay to win. Especially for players who primarily WvW.

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Random.4691:

Seriously the lack of red post, not that I should be surprised, it’s like that child that was caught doing something they shouldn’t so they just hide because that makes everything better. I guess they really didn’t learn from their FAQ scandal.

Given that the vast majority of the complaints in this thread are by a small handful of people and that most of it was posted during Anet’s downtime, this really shouldn’t be a surprise.
People are trying to be very loud about their complaints, but so far the actual number of people complaining really isn’t that high.

That and we’re within 2 days of launch. The devs may not have time for posting on the forums that much or the permission to interrupt the devs that know the answers to the questions we have about this.

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Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Eh I don’t think so for many players, because that still means slogging through maps over and over and over and over and over…

Maybe slightly less stress for wvwers if they were allowed to start buying these notarized scrolls 6 months ago.

Overall, I call foul and this hype train jumped on the dhuum tracks with this one. Just wait until the players who don’t visit the forums open up their character panel on launch day lol

I didn’t say it would go away. Just that it wouldn’t be as huge.

1. There would have been time for ANet to work out a compromise if they wanted to.

2. Players would have had a decent amount of time to get more core Tyria hero points to reduce the number needed when HoT launches.

3. Players wouldn’t have had the feeling that ANet might have kept quiet about it because they knew it would be an unpopular decision.

Swagger.1459:

FinalPatriot.8034:

And this reminds me why I did not preorder the game. I think I’ll wait a while and see how this gets resolved.

As a casual player, this pretty much kills the game for me.

What really concerns me though with HoT is there is now, ANOTHER controversy about the xPack. Why did they just not release all this information long time ago and not within 72hrs of launch?

Because they knew players would be kittened off and they didn’t want to take away from the hype

That’s the thing, if they had stated this info much earlier, there wouldn’t be as much issue with the amount needed. Players would have time to adjust expectations and have a reasonable amount of time to get max hero points on all characters they planned to get the elite on except revenant.

Asura. I’ve got one of each race already. so might as well pick a favorite race.

Zaklex.6308:

To all of those that seem to be floored by this announcement…you just proved that the human race does not pay attention very well. I’ve known for a long time it would take HP to unlock the Elite Spec and you wouldn’t be able to get all of it right off the bat. What I refuse to do though is tell you where the information is at, find it for yourself…the only thing we didn’t know what the total number of HP needed, but I knew my ~200 existing on several character wasn’t going to be enough to unlock the entire Elite Spec!

And you just proved your own post.

Most of the posters have been upset by the amount of hero points needed. Not that they needed more hero points than are currently available in the game.

KittyKitty.9234:

If my memory serves me correct, I thought I remember reading you can do the raid as many times as you like, but the only thing that will be locked out is loot.

And the only loot you’d be locked out of is the special raid loot. You’d likely get the standard loot. Like world bosses and dungeons/fractals. You still get loot, but you didn’t get the special loot.

Fist off, I want to say that I don’t specifically have a problem with the requirement to fully unlock the elites.

I do have a problem with how ANet’s handled the situation.

1. Timing. 3 days before launch was well past time for this news to be posted. Ok, the exact number of Hero Points needed may not have been nailed down, but surely the “you must unlock all of the core” was nailed down. Or that you’d need more than 214 hero points (max you can have on any character level 80 with 100% map completion in every map and the krait shard) to max out the track.

1a. This is further exacerbated because players had been posting their desires to play elites on day one

2. Location of update. A reply to a post in a thread. Not in it’s own thread (Handful of HoT Notes would have been a good spot). Not in a blog post. But in a thread.

3. Quantity of Hero Points needed. Given the number needed to max out the core specializations, people will have a negative reaction to seeing 400 hero points needed for maxing out the elite spec. And it’s likely their first impression. First impressions are powerful.

4. Lack of posting further details on the issue afterward (or acknowledging that some do have an issue with it). And there’s been plenty of time for the appropriate dev to have been alerted to the problem.

If 3 of the 4 had changed, there likely wouldn’t have been as big of a back lash.

Random.4691:

Lorelei.7809:

Thing is no PvE player will have the elite specs unlocked. If it is retroactive, then WvW players are ahead. If it isn’t, then people are in the same boat. PvErs still have to complete 40 Maguuma hearts which won’t be a piece of cake.

For time spent in game if you compare how many HP you would get in 12 hours vs how many WvW lvls you would get in 12 hours, then you would be aware of the glaring issue.

Time spent should be relatively equal, WvW is expected to take a bit longer due to the nature of how it works and the dependence of other player, but I’d wager if you spend the same amount of time grinding those HP in the Jungle as a WvW player spend grind the ranks his 2 weeks will equal 2-3 days for you.

And even a greater disparity once you get past the first few characters.

PvE players get faster at getting all the hero points. Their skill and the knowledge of where the points are gets better and lets them complete them faster.

WvW ranks are ranks. And there’s bound to be an upper limit on ranks at some point. You can’t really shave much time off of one rank. And to some degree is limited by what you enjoy doing in WvW. The scout isn’t going to climb ranks as fast as the zerg commander for instance. The scout isn’t doing anything that gets WXP. The zerg commander does.

The one to Rule.2593:

Just because they expected they were going to use them day one does not ever mean that they were. The title of " Elite" should have betrayed the fact that it was going to take some work.

Funny, I don’t require having to do much work for my elite skill.

So there is precedent for the expectation of not having to do much work for things that are elite.

Not saying that there shouldn’t be work for an elite spec, just that claiming that people shouldn’t have expected work is a bit much considering the amount of work not needed for elite skills.

The one to Rule.2593:

gavyne.6847:

The one to Rule.2593:

So…..get the elite specs?

That’s the core of the complaint, having the elite specs gated behind expansion content. This means we’ll have to play new expansion content with the same ‘ol characters we’ve played for the past 3 years. Likely have to do masteries in order to unlock some hero challenges.

It’s just boring and disappointing to have to play these same ‘ol characters in the new expansion, and have to repeat it over and over and over and over until you’ve done it for all your characters and unlocked their elite specs. All this just so we could play the new elite specs in the new expansion content both in PvE & WvW.

If you don’t understand this, then I’ve got nothing further to say to you. I wish Colin would come back and talk with the playerbase more so players don’t have to tear each other apart on behalf of Anet. It’s clear some are ok with it, some aren’t. No sense letting players kill each other over it because nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here.

I understand it, it’s just ridiculous that people thought that they were just gonna get their elite specs with no work.

No one was expecting no work, but the amount needed seems high to some, especially to those who have a number of alts.

The one to Rule.2593:

So…..get the elite specs?

That’s the thing, right now, it looks like we’ll have to do a good majority of the open world to get the elite spec. When there are players who would have preferred to do a good majority of the world with a maxed out elite spec character.

kimeekat.2548:

Menadena.7482:

What about those of us who want to carry on the ‘good fight’ and help the community? IE, be mentors, which means being in central Tyria most of the time. I was already struggling with 170: by what I have seen about 140 they would be ones that soloing would mean dying many times to get the challenge done, especially on characters who have to fight in tight quarters but wear light armor (ie, they can not do the usual staying as far back as possible).

1) Mentors are awesome Thanks for being awesome.

2) You bought the expansion, yeah? If you plan to do the story and if we assume it’s a similar “run to the green star and start an instance” format, chances are you’ll earn a lot of the hero points along the way – and with so many people playing I very seriously doubt you’ll have to do anything alone. Let’s say, though, that the challenges are harder than Tyria’s faceroll ones and you’re alone – do what you, as a mentor, would want a good newbie to do: Ask for help! Map chat is usually pretty helpful. If truly no one is around, feel free to give me a poke in-game cause I’d love to lend a hand.

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Alukah.2063:

14 pages of complaint because people don’t want to do a few hero challenges to get new skills… I’m perplexed.

It doesn’t take years to do 40 hero challenges, not months, not weeks, maybe a couple days.

Try 320 hero challenges if you want to try out all of the specs and see where people are having some issue if they had been expecting to do so on or near day 1.

60 HP to unlock, so I think you mean 340 after that? In any case, as Colin said earlier up-thread: HoT HPs give 10HPs each. If you focus your efforts on Heart of Thorns exploration, the most you’re looking at is 34 HoT hero challenges (40 including unlock). That’s like ten per new map. Sure, you can go grind 200 Tyria challenges, but you’ll still have to go find 20 in HoT for the last stretch. In that case, the most it would be is ~220. (200 + 20*10 = 400).

So, you can’t get the entire elite spec on day 1. You won’t have every mastery on day 1 so you also can’t get to 100% of the map on day one, or likely finish story on day 1. People can say that they want it fully unlocked on day 1 as much as they like, but it doesn’t change that day 1 unlock-it-all was never stated to be the plan for Elite Specializations.

This system is actually a little more generous for launch than I’d expected; I thought we were told at some point that Elite Spec unlock was tied into a story step, which would have completely ruled out even playing the spec on day 1. While now, it seems like everyone has at least 60 points for the initial unlock, and no one has mentioned the Elite Spec being locked behind the story. So I admit I’m coming into this with the perspective that it’s a better front-end deal than we could have otherwise gotten.

Like I’ve been saying: their lack of communication on the issue led people to expect to be able to play the elites fully unlocked on day 1. Now they’re being told the game won’t live up to their expectations and are rightfully dissatisfied. Now some will be able to readjust their expectations and be totally fine with the news come launch. Some won’t be able to and they’ll continue to be dissatisfied. Where most will fall is unknown. A lot of it will likely depend on how many exact points it takes to go from nothing put into the elite to having all traits and skills unlocked and how easy it is or not to get the points needed.

You may have prepurchased after the cut off time for the Friday hand out of the veteran slot was. You’ll get it by the 23rd. If you don’t, contact support.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Seera.5916:

I don’t have any issue with the number of points needed. None what so ever.

I’m highly sympathetic to the ones who aren’t too happy because ANet decided to wait until 3 days before launch to let people know how many points despite players asking for weeks.

I can understand that, but it’s also possible that Anet’s final decision on those numbers was only done relatively recent.

Delius.1968:

How I play my class… Not so much – I just feel locked out of the entertainment I paid for.

But sense of progression IS entertaining. Have you never played any other RPG? The entire genre exists and is popular because people ARE entertained by progression (among other things too, of course). Even the entire facebook/ browser casual gaming fad relied on RPG progression mechanics to keep players addicted (regardless of how flawed those casual games may have been generally).

I mean, what do people expect when they decide to play a MMORPG?

GW2 promised a grind-free experience for vertical progression, but it did never promise a progression-free experience.

If they hadn’t decided the number of hero points needed to unlock the elite specs until today, then the game has more problems than bad communication.

I highly doubt it was so recent that they had to wait until 3 days before launch to tell us. Number of points needed definitely seems like something I would want to know when I was designing where hero points were going to go. Which I would hope has already been done. Don’t want to have too few, but also not too many.

DiogoSilva.7089:

DDCarvalho.2071:

Great decision ArenaNet.

Most people that play RPGs like a sense of character progression.
Since now our character progression is horizontal progression with elite specializations, I am very happy to see that I won’t get my full elite spec on the first 5 minutes of the expansion.
I hope no amount of QQ and backlash is enough to make you guys change course

I totally agree with this.

The main reason why I and many, many others love the RPG genre is because, among other things, there’s a very strong sense of gradual progression. That is half of a RPG’s gameplay experience.

I can understand why people with alts might find repetitive progression annoying. For that, there’s always a solution that Anet can do: make the hero point scrolls from wvw also obtainable/ purchasable by characters that have completed the new magumma maps, so that players can use them on their alts.

But outside of that? Outside of players with a lot of alts, this “content gating” is not only expected by any RPG, but also desirable to create a sense of personal growth. Masteries are cool, legendary collectibles are cool, but they’re not everything, and not all players who love progression might find them enough to satisfy their playing experience. Elite spec progression is also needed.

I don’t have any issue with the number of points needed. None what so ever.

I’m highly sympathetic to the ones who aren’t too happy because ANet decided to wait until 3 days before launch to let people know how many points despite players asking for weeks.

Alukah.2063:

Seera.5916:

Alukah.2063:

14 pages of complaint because people don’t want to do a few hero challenges to get new skills… I’m perplexed.

It doesn’t take years to do 40 hero challenges, not months, not weeks, maybe a couple days.

Try 320 hero challenges if you want to try out all of the specs and see where people are having some issue if they had been expecting to do so on or near day 1.

Now that’s your problem, they cannot dumb down the game for everyone else because little john over there has dozens of alts and doesn’t want to put any effort into the game.

I mean, you guys act like this is a new situation, if you want another class you already have to do all that work leveling it, it’s not instant level 80, nor it comes with everything unlocked, same with waypoints, map completions, etc. Work on one spec at a time and you will have all the hero points in no time, there’s no need to have everything unlocked on day 1 after it’s released.

Delius.1968:

I don’t understand why they’re doing this. It’s bad for players and bad for developers.

For instance, I main an ele but at this point I won’t even bother unlocking tempest to try it as I think it will be a waste of time given the info we have so far. So I am better off switching my main to something I really want to play since it takes such an investment for alts / changing main.

It’s not bad for neither players nor developers, it’s not unheard of in the gaming industry that you have to play new content in order to access new abilities. You’re just plain lazy and want everything unlocked on day 1.

Tasao.4623:

Zypher.7609:

All I am reading is a few people upset about the change that keep posting every few post trying to say how bad this will be.

I understand this is a casual game, but logging on and getting everything for every character is just not going to happen. There is nothing wrong with having to play the game on each character to get the elite specs.

The issue being this decision forces players to NOT play the game they want to play. This decision forces players to go play content they might not want to play or replay in order to just access the base functionality of elite specs.
Imagine you’ve gotten Maguuma Map Mastery on one, two, or even three characters. Maybe you have all 3 new legendaries. Now imagine you have 6 more characters you WANT to play but you’re sick of grinding the jungle and don’t like WvW.

You have no choice. Your only option is to grind out a lot of content you’ve already completed or that you just don’t like in order to play your Elite specs in raids, against world bosses, in dungeons, etc.

Again, hero points don’t take that long to get, you’re blowing this way out of proportion.

They have always made decisions that force people to try out different parts of the game, this is nothing new, and honestly this is mild compared to the old requirement to have WvW for world completion, or legendaries requiring you to literally play everything the game has to offer, even things you might dislike.

Reminder that this isn’t a sandbox game, this is a themepark and you are still playing in whatever way they want you to play.

So you found it ok that for that past several weeks, ANet has not answered the how many hero points will it take question despite people asking explicitly and people posting how they wanted to test multiple elite specs out on day one then 3 days from launch when people have developed the expectation of being able to test them out fully unlocked on day one telling people that that’s not possible? And then when people ask for more details going silent on the issue again? Which gets the already wary players on edge as they think they’re being quiet because it’s the opposite of what ANet knows will make people happy.

And we have no way of knowing if HoT hero challenges will be as easy as the ones we currently have. They could be more difficult.

Warscythes.9307:

gavyne.6847:

Warscythes.9307:

Isn’t this just like lvling up like in the other game expansions? Why is this a problem now?

Because this isn’t just any other game, this is Guild Wars. GW2 isn’t supposed to make you grind your levels, it’s supposed to have horizontal progression where players play at their own will, in their own time, at their own pace, to enjoy the game. Now, in order to play the elite specializations that many bought the expansion for, people will not be taking their time to enjoy their game. They’ll be burning through and grinding for hero points and masteries just so they could unlock elite specs. Not for one character, but for every single frigging characters and many people by now have many many characters.

I’d much rather they let us have elite spec to play with right away, so we can work on cosmetic points and masteries at our own pace. Let us explore the map at our own pace without feeling like we need to rush through it just to unlock the elite specs.

Same with those WvW enthusiasts. I’d rather they let me play Reaper which I had a wonderful time playing over beta weekends. Now I’ll be stuck playing a base necro grinding and ktraining just so I can speed rank up to unlock the Reaper. That’s not fun, that’s a grind. It doesn’t fit GW2’s philosophy.

But is not a grind though, hero challenges assuming they follow the same setup is pretty much asking you to explore the map. That’s called playing the game. As for people pressured to rush through content to get their specs, I mean didn’t people do that in the first place before when they are below level 80? Some chose to take their time, some chose to rush no? Did you feel pressured to rush to lvl 80 so you can play your complete spec? If no, then why now?

Because through ANet hyping the elite specs and not giving out information on the number of hero points, people got an expectation that they would be able to play the elite with all traits and skills on or near day 1. ANet had to have seen those threads yet chose to remain silent. Then 3 days before launch tells players that that may not actually be possible. Especially for those wanting to test out more than one or two elite specs on or near launch.

And some were planning on testing out all 9 elite specs. That’s 3600 hero points needed. 360 hero challenges in the jungle if they don’t have any extra hero points after maxing out all of their core traits and skills. Now tell me you wouldn’t feel a bit miffed that in order to do what you had planned, you were going to have either grind or give up your desire to test them all out in a few days.

Alukah.2063:

14 pages of complaint because people don’t want to do a few hero challenges to get new skills… I’m perplexed.

It doesn’t take years to do 40 hero challenges, not months, not weeks, maybe a couple days.

Try 320 hero challenges if you want to try out all of the specs and see where people are having some issue if they had been expecting to do so on or near day 1.

Jim.4935:

Seera.5916:

Jim.4935:

Seera.5916:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

displacedTitan.6897:

And you would have worked toward the unlocks differently than getting the HPs in the game now… how exactly????

The point is had I known, I would have spent time working to unlock those I don’t have so that come Friday I would have cleared them all on the current map. currently I’ve saved what I had not knowing I’ll need to fully train everything else before training a spec I actually want to use. Color this anyway you like it should have been mentioned a long time ago so people actually had a chance to work towards it KNOWING what they’ll need.

This. I think a huge part of the problem with this announcement is that it’s come 3 days until launch. If this had been revealed weeks ago, it likely would have just been a small little disappointment and blown over quickly. Now it’s likely to spill over into launch if ANet doesn’t give more details on it.

It seems like it’s very hard for people to do 6 Hero Challenges in the jungle to get their Elite Spec (skills and traits).

And like I said the last time you spouted off the 60 HP’s: Source?

Because I highly doubt they’ve got it so that you can get all traits and skills within 60 points. Especially with the picture posted earlier in this thread:

Here’s the link.

Clearly shows the elite skill very near the end of the line. With 400 points being from beginning to end, I highly doubt 60 points gets you to the elite skill.

So, please post a source that explicitly states that it’s only 60 points to get from 0 traits and skills for an elite to all of them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ph2e1/today_we_will_be_looking_at_the_profession/cw6gt87

That only says the ability to play as the elite, I can play the elite with just the minor adept trait unlocked. Not that the 60 points gets me all the traits and skills.

Any other source?

Jim.4935:

Seera.5916:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

displacedTitan.6897:

And you would have worked toward the unlocks differently than getting the HPs in the game now… how exactly????

The point is had I known, I would have spent time working to unlock those I don’t have so that come Friday I would have cleared them all on the current map. currently I’ve saved what I had not knowing I’ll need to fully train everything else before training a spec I actually want to use. Color this anyway you like it should have been mentioned a long time ago so people actually had a chance to work towards it KNOWING what they’ll need.

This. I think a huge part of the problem with this announcement is that it’s come 3 days until launch. If this had been revealed weeks ago, it likely would have just been a small little disappointment and blown over quickly. Now it’s likely to spill over into launch if ANet doesn’t give more details on it.

It seems like it’s very hard for people to do 6 Hero Challenges in the jungle to get their Elite Spec (skills and traits).

And like I said the last time you spouted off the 60 HP’s: Source?

Because I highly doubt they’ve got it so that you can get all traits and skills within 60 points. Especially with the picture posted earlier in this thread:

Here’s the link.

Clearly shows the elite skill very near the end of the line. With 400 points being from beginning to end, I highly doubt 60 points gets you to the elite skill.

So, please post a source that explicitly states that it’s only 60 points to get from 0 traits and skills for an elite to all of them.