Guild Wars 2

Erzian.5218:

You could start with proof for:

Crit is 10k (3k+150%)

man i know that come on dont be punctilious. i Just approximated it to make more clearly. I know 3k X 150% is 4,5k. Doesnt change anything, cuz then the weakened critical hit would have been even less proportionaly.
Check the screens, 1.1k glancy eviscerate that should have been a 100% critical 6k.
More easy than watch… then you have to try if by yourself XD
Don’t be a kitten, proofs are on the screens, watch them, do your math and then come to tell me if weakness isnt better than protection, fury and vigor togheter. Also consider protection is reducing only the 33% dmg incoming to you, not to the other people who dont have protection, a player affected by weakness instead has reduced dmg against any opponent around him.

Oh also i forgot to say, i didnt use any damage modifier traits on the experiment, nor rune/sigill dmg modifier, so that would have been more clear, if i do that, the lost dmg would have become even higher, since weakness keep applying on the base dmg and not on the final output like we saw (6k is not halve in 3k).

So i dont know any more way to say it… stop defending weakness, is not balanced XD XD.

back in topic, soon i will upload my video of scepter autoattack pwning revs.
Since people in this forum doesnt believe in math or obvious/clear wrong things, and only believe in proofs.

Astralporing.1957:

Shala.8352:

ok explain then. Cause maybe i’ve just too bad rng when i attack

sigh
1. you keep forgetting weakness affects only half of the attacks.
2. You keep mixing up % of damage reduction from weakness with +%crit damage. Those are not the same percentages, they use something different as base.
3. you keep mixing up damage dealt with base damage.
4. you do not understand how crit damage is calculated

screen021: My zerker build, 230%critical dmg, 55% critical change, jsut to let you know all the screen i did was taken when i had active sigil of intelligence, so it was 100% a critical hit.
screen017, 016: my average critical hit on svanir is 6k.
screen018,: my normal eviscerate non crit is 2.5k average. Sounds normal. cuz 230% of 2.6k makes around 6k. till now is all okay.
screen 013, 014 and in particular screen 20: showing how the dps lost is much more than 50% on a critical hit. In particular, in screen 20 i could get it while i still had intelligence sigil active. You can see, that the dmg output is not the 50% of the normal crit dmg, wich should be around 2.9k-3k. Instead, is around 1.1k. This means even on a 100% chance critical hit, it takes the base damage and it get halve. So on a 100% chance critical hit that would have been 6k dmg, i get 1.1k dmg, wich is an 82% dmg reduction.
Do you want me to take screens of weakness affecting my 150% critical dmg (i.e no ferocity)? i can already tell you is 75% damage lost, but since you dont believe in my math i can bring you real example XD XD.
Weakness is broken. It punish precision build based, and its forgiving to condi dmg. The reason we have almost no more berserker build in the meta, is not because of the bunker meta you are trying to fix, but because the spam of weakness.

Also i want to add that there’s no reason for a condi build to cleanse weakness, they are not losing any dps, just some endurance regen. Instead, a power build is better that cleanse that condi.
Also, for this experiment i got helped by my friend necro. he was able to keep weakness on me 100% uptime whit no problems.

Erzian.5218:

Shala.8352:

Astralporing.1957:

Shala.8352:

From official wiki:
“Weakness is a condition that decreases the rate of endurance regeneration and turns half of all hits into glancing blows (that deal 50% less damage)”.

This means ALL attacks can be 50% less dmg, not only crits.

No. Half of all. That’s 50% of 50%.

and 50% of 150% is? 75% less dmg.
so average between ALL attacks, crits and not crits, 50% less dmg in total.
Example: eviscerate non crit is 3k
Crit is 10k (3k+150%)
Total dmg on a crit and a non crit: 3k+10k =13k

weaknes on non crit: 1,5k dmg
weakness on crit. 5k dmg
Total dmg on a crit and a non crit with weakness: 1,5k+ 5k= 6,5k dmg, for a total lost of 50% dmg than the 2 evi without weakness.

Learn to math man. Of course as i said, the more ferocity you have, the more dmg you lose, so an high ferocity stats will lose more of 50% dmg. Seems legit, when condi is not affected by it right?

Your calculations are wrong on so many levels

ok explain then. Cause maybe i’ve just too bad rng when i attack

Astralporing.1957:

Shala.8352:

From official wiki:
“Weakness is a condition that decreases the rate of endurance regeneration and turns half of all hits into glancing blows (that deal 50% less damage)”.

This means ALL attacks can be 50% less dmg, not only crits.

No. Half of all. That’s 50% of 50%.

and 50% of 150% is? 75% less dmg.
so average between ALL attacks, crits and not crits, 50% less dmg in total.
Example: eviscerate non crit is 3k
Crit is 10k (3k+150%)
Total dmg on a crit and a non crit: 3k+10k =13k

weaknes on non crit: 1,5k dmg
weakness on crit. 5k dmg
Total dmg on a crit and a non crit with weakness: 1,5k+ 5k= 6,5k dmg, for a total lost of 50% dmg than the 2 evi without weakness.

Learn to math man. Of course as i said, the more ferocity you have, the more dmg you lose, so an high ferocity stats will lose more of 50% dmg. Seems legit, when condi is not affected by it right?

Oh also i wanna add that weakness is not punishing spammy class the same way is punishing timed burst class like warrior. i mean if an ele get weakness, will he care a lot of getting some glancing attacks? I mean he wouldnt get a lot of dmg aniway, he can just spam his skills and compensate the weakness, but if it happens after a warrior has set up a lvl 3 eviscerate after gathering adrenaline, waited for opponent to waste his blocks/dodge/blind just to get a glancing hit wich wont be spammable, then you will understand how unfair this condition is.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Shala.8352:

Edit: for the noob saying weakness doesnt diminuish dps by 50%, go read wiki.
And also always for that noob saying that 3 seconds is too much time for a corrupt boon, i can tell 2 things: first, you are not slapping butterflys while autoattacking, and really 3 seconds is too much for having a corrupt boon? what do you want? corrupt boon on every kittening attack??

How about you read it? Weakness is a 50% chance for 50% non-crit damage. Assuming no crit chance, that is only a 25% reduction on average (50%*50%). It does go up from there based on Crit Chance and Crit Damage, but it can’t be a 50% reduction in damage without an absurd crit damage stat (read: impossible to get high).

For Weakness to give a 50% average reduction in damage, you would need 300% Crit damage and 100% crit chance. This requires the impossible Ferocity value of 2,250.

And never once did I say that the boon corrupt on auto was fine (although it’s not as overpowering as I feared). I said to get your numbers straight before using them to make an argument.

From official wiki:
“Weakness is a condition that decreases the rate of endurance regeneration and turns half of all hits into glancing blows (that deal 50% less damage)”.

This means ALL attacks can be 50% less dmg, not only crits. Off course, off course if it happens on a crit, the damage lost is much more higher than a 50% damage lost (since default critical damage is 150%, you lose more than 50% on a crit even if you dont have ferocity, if you have high ferocity the dmg lost is atrocius, i should post you some crit eviscerate LVL 3 adrenaline on a berserker warrior glancing for 1100????).

I understand that scepter autoattack alone is not overpowered, but if you mix it on a class that have already a corrupt boon op utility 15s CD, that can spam an absurd number of condi, those things that should be countered by resistence wich is corrupted by autoattacks, then you get that is wrong. But the sad thing is that you are punishing more class that don’t spam a lot of boons (like warrior), who they wont be able to replace those boons with just a dodge or random skill usage. For example, mesmer get a lot of boons of short duration with chaos armor, so guess what a tragedy is when you get 3 seconds of might to get 10 seconds of weakness!!! Boons are not a debuff guys!! A lot of class rely on boons, and the fact only a few class have access to boon corruption is not that fair, especialy if they are spammable (i repeat autoattck and 15sec CD utility) and convert boons in such an Op way. There would be also Well of corruption, wich is slightly balanced cuz of the high CD.

Aniway it’s true, my opponents were noobs (not even that much to be honest), and i agree you will never just spam autoattack, but still the experiment worked well, i mean i was swapping from shroud form to scepter autoattack, while sometime use my 2 utility spectral armor or Corrupt boon, and nothing else.
Still you should tell me wich other class with wich weapon can win any fight by just using autoattack and 2 utility.

Edit: i will work on a video soon, cuz i think you people cant be impartial. Those who are defending it are playing Necro.

well you should try it more often^^ is particulary destroying revenant. I tried to run in unranked just to see how imbalanced it is. I made a necro, i bought a scepter, and i run without any elite and only spectral armour as utility, and only scepter as weapon (and no sigills of course). I killed a revenant, a mesmer, a ranger in 1v1. Well also a warrior but that doesnt count rlly, that class almost kill itself when it plays XD XD XD XD XD

Sure if i equipped a staff i would have done much more quicker to spamm marks etc, and off course i swapped to death shroud when i was in trouble or i wanted to add some condi to the mix, but rlly scepter autoattack is already very strong as it is, it didnt required that corrupt boon buff. I won literaly with only a scepter equipped, thats all. I cant do that with any class in the game.

Edit: for the noob saying weakness doesnt diminuish dps by 50%, go read wiki.
And also always for that noob saying that 3 seconds is too much time for a corrupt boon, i can tell 2 things: first, you are not slapping butterflys while autoattacking, and really 3 seconds is too much for having a corrupt boon? what do you want? corrupt boon on every kittening attack??

i agree with opener, unfortunately people are still related to the old meta, i think actualy 2 revs wont work anymore.
But i dont think this is a bad thing. So i dont thing any buff to sword is needed

guys i dont get what you are talking about. You dont have to land consecutively 3 autoattacks to land the boon corrupt, you dont lose the chain if you get dodged the second attack. i can dodge meanwhile, using an utility and still not lose the chain. So what are you talking about? THIRD AUTOATTACK FO SCEPTER IS NOOOOT HARD TO LAND, its 1 second and half and you wil land it.

I get that there’s a lot of stability spam (still remember that for some melee class, playing without stab is like saying “you cant land your skills”, i already explained a lot of tons of times, that getting stunned for a melee is much more worst than for a ranged, since he is not loosing only those seconds of stun duration in terms of dps, but he is also loosing the gap closing, so he lose much mooooar dps), but really the stab corruption is not the only problem. If i get corrupted my single stack of might wich is 2% more dps i have, to get weakness for 10 seconds, if you really want all this corrupt spam, we should rewiew also the corruption table entirely.

I tried it, the scepter is fast, in 1 second and half i will have corrupted your boon, and if it’s might, means you will have 10 seconds of weakness, this is already a 50% less dmg i’m recieving, wich is much more less damage than the ele protection time.
I think we are lucky necro still have to understand the power of the scepter autoattack, else people would agree much more with me.
I dont even start talking about resistence that should be the counter of condi and is countered by… corruption… so what will be next step? add the boon/traits/skills/utility uncorruptable? Wake up guys, stop defending necro cuz you finaly had a chance to get legend carried by this class. We are talking of not ruining the game. Scepter autoattack is one of those thing that goes on the direction of ruining the game.

I rlly want any of you come to challenge my necro scepter spam with his revenant and see how much dmg they will be able to do with perma weakness and perma chill, while my condi are thicking. Rlly try it, there’s not a second you dont have weakness or chill on you, and this is horrible gameplay experience.

If there’s people who dont agree that scepter autoattack is too strong, then all is vain, we already lost our objectivity and people are defending it cuz of personal interests.

i think scepter autoattack corrupt boon wasnt the way to counter the boon meta we had before. Nerfing the access to boon spam was much better choice. I would have even acceppted better “remove boon on autoattack” than this.
Unfortunately, anet always chose the easy way of the power creep. So, to nerf boon stacking of certain class (revenant, scrapper and co) they buffed one single class. Result is, that ye maybe scrapper vs reaper is more fairly, but warrior what have to say? Warrior has to be happy to be feared on autoattack cuz he activate stab on berserker mode? Should be happy to get 10 seconds of weaknes (i repeat 10 seconds!!!!!!!) cuz he get an amazing 2 stack of might while swapping weapon (wich is relatively what? a 2% more dmg?) Is this the way you see game balance?

As someone said, corrupt boons in general seems a little bit overtuned. I dont even start about talking of the Corrupt boon skill itself (15 seconds CD, 3 boons corrupted, 1200 range, unblockable, seems legit, warrior in counterpart has one single utility with less of 20 seconds cd, wich is just a breakstun… i cant find along all other classes any utility more powerfull than Corrupt boon). Weaknes is too powerfull too. Should be the counterpart of vigor, but instead it also reduce like a lot the dmg output, especialy if the opponent has high precision stat. In fact, weakness is the counterpart of vigor (still more efficient than it) and fury toghether.
I think weakness should be split in 2 different condition, one that decrease the endurance regeneration, and one that decrease the critical chance. Also, as fury increase only 20 critical chance, weakness instead cause a 50% TOTAL DMG decreased. So rather decrease like a lot the spam of weakness, or change it.

sephiroth.4217:

Shala.8352:

sephiroth.4217:

I like it but only because EVERYONE has stability in stacks now….

Did you dodge? HAVE SOME STAB
Did you evade an attack? HAVE SOME STAB
You got dazed? HAVE SOME STAB
Someone was a bully and knocked you over? HAVE SOME STAB
Congrats on your Gyro, HAVE SOME STAB.

everyone has stab cuz everyone has CC spam.
So it makes sense to add a corrupt boon on autoattack? Unfortunately certain class cant avoid to get boons.

It does on Necro, we don’t spew stab like other classes.

Also, if you’re dying to just scepter AA, then it’s a L2P issue…. I’ve been in plenty of games where my enemy lets me stand still and pewpew that auto, especially trap guards.

A scrapper with below average skills can walk all over a reaper, infact anyone can just by getting close and moving around because it will reset the AA chain (or any skill they were currently using resets to 3s if you just walk behind them or through them), but sure, keep your distance, don’t dodge the 3rd attack and keep on asking for nerfs.

so now i have also to dodge the 3rd autoattack? not only all the spamm autotargeted impossible to see animation of necro aoe and chilled when i touch him, now i have to count their autoattacks and dodge the third one, tell me just in comparison, how many autoattacks of DH you dodge? Cuz if you even dodge one, i’ll tell you l2p.
And the walk all over a reaper doesnt make a sense, this is just another example of how unskilled necro players are, cuz in fact THEY CAN ROTATE TOO WHILE ATTACKING!!!! INSTEAD OF HOLD IN YOUR PLACE spamming attacks, LEARN TO MOVE LIKE ANY OTHER CLASS NEED TO DO!!!

So off course, the average scrapper will be able to walk all over the reaper and moving around, IFFFF the reaper doesnt make any relative movement XD XD

PowerBottom.5796:

stop whining about necros, it’s bad if a team runs more than two! Yes, Necro’s are strong, but they have clear disadvantages that get unsurmountable if they aren’t made up by other classes on the team:

- horrible mobility
- horrible sustain
- bad rezzing/stomping (stability mostly only in shroud)
- Also, there is considerable overlap with multiple reapers, since they all spam the same conditions, which can be dealt with by smart cleanses.

If you loose against mass-reapers, it was because your team didn’t adapt to it and didn’t play smart. I can definitely see 2 reapers being useful in an ESL team, but more than that is simply not smart.

horrible mobility: this is true
horrible sustain: i already told you not TRUE. MAssive chill/weakness spamm, spectral armor, minions, corrupt boons (inculding stability!! the counter of fear countered by… autoattacks, ye people can argue about “it’s only the third scepter attack corrupting boon”, but unfortunately the first boon that will be automaticaly corrupted is guess what? stability wich translate in FEAR!!!!) easy to fill up Life force make them not an horrible sustain. Learn to try other classes, warrior thief druid DH, those are class with horrible sustain, definetly not the reaper.
bad rezzing stomping: well considering they have reaper shroud up 90% of the time, they have actualy more stab than warrior itself (if they cant stomp/ress, is cuz in general Reaper are BAD players who cant admin enter/exit death shroud to have stability when they need it)
smart cleanses: dont even start with this, actualy there’s no class that can keep up with the spammy condi application necro can give. Also the more cleanse utility/traits you bring, the less offensive stuff you will have, wich translate in guess what? More survivability for the necro, so that will end in cleanser eventualy run out and condi do the thing. Also the ability to change entirely the opponent traits/utility its already a victory itself… just tell me in comparison, you see a warrior or even a revenant in opponent team, you would change anything in your build? NOOOOOT. Cuz in fact those are class that can outplay you, being more skilled, but NOT outclass you.

Stop beeing blinded. Rlly, you cant compare esl progames with soloQ, Necro are actualy kitten for soloQ and they not bring anything fun to the game itself. Also, if the game is balanced at soloQ level, it will be also at “ESL Proleague” level, since if you are Pro you will be able to make the difference aniway, so start to learn how to balance anet!

Erzian.5218:

I wish i could play vs 4 necs instead of double rev + tempest + something every game

well i can tell you i already have done like 70+ games ranked this season, in all of them there was at least one necro in opponent team.
I found only one game without necro in opponent team, and it was the funniest game i played in this season, it was fast, i could concentrate on my rotation and on my target without bothering about chill/weakness or any kitten load condi i usualy had in other games.
So no, i wish i could play vs double rev+tempest + something else instead of 4 necs!!!

oh i can add that yes necro is easy to burst down in a 2v1 3v1 fight, is not easy anymore in a 3v3/4v4 fight where there are multiple necro stacks.

well i think people saying necro are easy to burst are probably playing a different game, or playing against really low skilled necro who pick this class just because it’s effective.
We can say DH is easy to burst. We can say thief and warrior are easy to burst. We can even say Druid is easy to burst… but really we cant say it about necro.
Easy to full life force, easy to spam blind/weakness/chill, spectral armor protection buff, insane aoe spamm, corrupt boons, and if they add some minions wasting here and there… they are not gonna be bursted down fast at all. I mean wich class would be able to burst down them plz tell me… a revenant? with what, skill 3 sword hitting minions wasting dps a thief? venom stone on them to get feared to death? A DH who cant block their unblockable attacks and die faster to condi than dmg he is able to do? A scrapper is able to burst them??? rlly? Scrapper has insane survivability yes, but his burst rlly sux.
Then what we have that can burst down a necro… maybe a rifle gimmick build warrior… unfortunately with that build, if he even get touched once with chill he is death. Aniway if they are 4 necros, 2 can decide to go minions condi and avoid with that 90% of the range dmg.
So plz tell me HOW you are bursting necros down, cuz maybe it’s really a l2p issue.

Oh i dont even have to mention what happens if we are able to down a necro while there’s still 3 up… it will become impossible to stomp or cleave him while he will do insane dmg while be downed… so it usualy happens that even the rare moments we are able to burst down one necro fast, they are still in advantage cuz at that moment the team will be full of condi, so the time we burst him down, we will have 3-4 players unable to cleave/stomp cuz concentrate on recoverin/cleansing.

Aniway i tell you, personaly if i’m against 4 necros and 1 ele, i will focus ele, cuz first of all i dont want to be chilled or feared at every touch i do on the necro, and second, ele will go down faster than necro!!! Try it!

well i’ve been stuck for a day too in last tier of sapphire.
It happened that every time i won 2 games in a row, the 3 games after i got matched with noobs or bad classes (like 2 warriors 1 thief against 3 necro like you said). It’s like matchmaking is punishing you after a winning streak, and want to compensate it with a lose streak. The feeling of skill beeing less relevant than matchmaking is real. In fact, i’m not doing anithing better in the games i win, and i m not doing anithing worst the games i lose. It’s like it all depends on team players or comps, wich is decided entirely by matchmaking.

pff dont even try to condi cleanse against a necro, is a waste of utility/trait slots and cast time.
And dont expect necro numbers to become lower at higher tier, the more you go up the more you find them. I had more screens, but there’s so much offensive words on those necro that i dont want to share. In particular i havent done a game yet without at least 4 necro.

sephiroth.4217:

I like it but only because EVERYONE has stability in stacks now….

Did you dodge? HAVE SOME STAB
Did you evade an attack? HAVE SOME STAB
You got dazed? HAVE SOME STAB
Someone was a bully and knocked you over? HAVE SOME STAB
Congrats on your Gyro, HAVE SOME STAB.

everyone has stab cuz everyone has CC spam.
So it makes sense to add a corrupt boon on autoattack? Unfortunately certain class cant avoid to get boons.

omg guys you already didn give up on warrior? stop using it, rlly you are hurting yourself

Tim.6450:

Honestly I never liked this one, the condition it applies as an auto attack were stupid. I would prefer if they instead of the the corrupt just placed a remove boon and an application of a weaker condi if it removed a boon if they felt the need to buff scepter.

when i’m revenant, i’m getting perma feared by autoattack… no sense

Rlly anet wake the kitten1ng up

actualy chill necro spam is the most Op stuff… to the point that with my warrior if i even get hit ONCE by any chill from the necro, i usualy write gg in say chat, cuz i know its only the start of the chain and there’s nothing i can do about it, even while running all the cleanse warrior can have.

i like warrior because is the only class that cant spam. The more you spam your skills, the less you hit and you quick end not having any skill to use.
You need instead to watch carefull to opponent, bait, use the right skill at the right moment. Warrior is fun, and even if is underperforming, i have much more satisfaction when i hit with warrior than when i win with revenant.

well there’s a solution… make any class like warrior is^^.

The thing you are complaining about rifle engi is the same warriors are complaining about their class… except that not only rifle is affected by this problem, but any of warriors weapons XD XD.
When we complain about the condi spam, isnt necessarly about the condi dmg stuff, but the spam on blind weakness chill is happening in this game, in contrast of the unblockable aoe ground easy target skills. In any decent mmo, melee attacks are stronger than ranged one, in this game not… now we have Decapitate wich is lower than gunflame (is lower than an axe autoattack to be fair) and its almost impossible to land. Now i dont mean that every skill should be like warrior’s one (impossible to land), but would be nice if they would be with the same concept of movement/placement of yourself in order to land.

RedBaron.6058:

Maybe if all thief players start to play warrior the Q_Q will subside…

Thief is completely OP but they still complain…

This. Also come back after you played gunflame in a blob fight to tell us if your dps was better or lower than when you played thief. Also we would like to know how many oneshot kill you did, and how many oneshot death you recieved. Or even better, were you able to get in berserker mode more than 1 time in that blob fight?? And if so. how many gunflame did hit and kill before someone noticed you?

It’s a L2P issue.
Try ask your thieves teammates to open their eyes. They wont be able to “oneshot” the gunflame warrior, but still to 100-0 him in less than a second. Cuz in fact maybe certain class dont have a one skill kill, but they’re combo are so quick that they can 100-0 you in the same time.
Also for people who are comparing gunflame to COR, they are kinda ignorant, gunflame need a set up, it’s not spammable (means that after 1-2 shots if you have signet of fury, you are a sitting duck), can be reflected, plus warrior dont have 999999 evades and double heals like revenant has, and has to run a NO support build with NO defenses, so gunflame warrior is not a win button, is an all in button. Meaning if you dont like all in gameplay, just dont play full zerker!
Really ele running full zerker was good 3 years ago, to counter gunflame you just have… to survive the gunflame!! After that the warrior wont be able to put any more pressure on you and ele could easily outheal his dmg if they stop going full glasses.
To be fair, i’ve never hit 17k in the server where i’m playing (Aurora Glade), so the problem is not the Gunflame build, but build people are using.

Guess what, you know what you will get before any season ranked game from your teammates? “Switch plz”
Thats all i’ve recieved in an entire season playing warrior, from ele and druid “proplayers”.
Adapt to that, i can already tell you that if you gonna play ele in ranked the next season, you will probably get close to my worst ingame experience i had last season. Enjoy it! You can now feel the warrior’s pain^^

Oh and back in topic, yes actualy warriors are more usefull than elementalist XD XD

And also, i want to add that those condi spam like cripple/weakness/blind have not the same impact between classes. Blind a warrior you annihilate him, blind a necro he will say chat “who cares i put a random aoe in the ground and i will still hit you and even remove the blind!!!” Weakness on a warrior you delete his 50% damage potential (even more if he is based on critical hits), weakness on a condi player he will be like “who cares”.
Cripple a ranged class, he will be like “ok i’m crippled, but i can still be able to land my attacks on range”, cripple a warrior and he wont be able to hit you cuz you will kite him!! I think cripple should be a condition that only melee weapons should be able to inflict for example…

This brings certain class to just ignore the cleanse on certain conditions, and focus more on cleanse on condi burst, wich makes them much more easier to play.
As an another example, i m often forced to pop berserker stance on a blind spam thief cuz else i’m not able to hit him. This will open a weakness on my defence and thief will just notice the incoming danger and start kiting untill resistence run out, and start spamming blind again. Or in another similar situation, if i’m forced to use berserker stance just to avoid blind spam on a team fight, i wont be able to use it when i should use it, for example on a reaper condi bomb.

I already have proposed this thing a lot of thousaand times, to make only no damage condition cleansable so that condi damage will result in his real form of competitive dmg (and people will finaly start to understand the opness of them, but this is the price to get all the class at the same level when afflicted by certain conditions), or just decrease drasticaly the ways you can apply chill, blind, weakness, slow (this one is actualy okay), i would like these conditions to be applicable only on combo activations, to add some skill gameplay to the Spam Condi Wars 2.

people are not reading much i think.
The problem is not the condi damage itself, but the condi spam.
Just to give you an idea of what i’m talking about, yesterday i had fun simulating myself to be an Anet developer balance team and making suggestions. Here is the trailer on the incomign autoprocs traits changes we have in mind to help those casual players who are struggling in our game, that we think is too much skill oriented:
“When opponent dodge, inflicta aoe weakness (600 radius) for 5 seconds.”
“When your endurance bar is empty, inflict blind to enemy target (no cd)”
“When opponent activates an healing skill with cast time, inflict poison for 8 seconds”
“When opponent get a boon, corrupt it (no cd)”
“If opponent has 25% faster movement trait selected, inflict him cripple for 90 seconds”
“When the opponent use a stun breaker, stun him for 5 seconds (10 sec cd)”
" From now, any target ground area attack will inflict every conditions in the game. The reason we decided for this change, was that we think is too hard to get the true damage potential from target ground skills, because opponent can always run out of it. With this change we want also to improve the condition spam cuz we like to see players bar full of them, and players not beeing able to use their melee skills cuz chilled/crippled/weakened"
“If the opponent use a full melee set of weapons, inflict him cripple and chill for 5 seconds (no cd). Reason of this change, is that we think that even while most ranged attacks are actualy dealing more damage than melee attacks, we still think it’s too hard to kite those melee easy players”

ok now asaid from the joke, i invite you condi lovers to try to notice how much this traits/skills arent far from the gw2 gameplay reality.

Velimere.7685:

roamzero.9486:

On one hand Reaper probably needs to be tone down (chill damage), on the other hand it’s pretty sad that it’s the only viable pure condi build. Has there ever even been a condi meta? Or at least one not involving Necro?

The last condi meta was the Dhuumfire meta, so not one not involving Necro.

Well it depends much on what you consider as a condi meta. To me for example, condi have been meta since the 26 january patch. I mean, if you consider the usage of carrion amulet as a definition of condi meta, then you are probably right. But if you consider the total impact condi are actualy having in a match (and i m not talking only about those condition dealing damage) you will have to admit that we actualy ARE in a condi meta, meaning that everything is build around the capacity of application of the condi and the capacity of remove/cleanse them. IN fact actualy running whitout a single condi cleanse is considered going yolo, even more yolo than running without any damage mitigation/immunity like endure pain. In fact, if i have to go yolo and i have to chose if i’m gonna drop endure pain or berserker stance, i will chose to drop endure pain even after the berserker stance nerf.

I understand that the “condition damage recieved” isnt higher than “damage recieved” at the end score panel (oh rlly gladly of this, the day it will be the opposite, guild wars 2 will definetely be death), but in fact the impact that condi like weakness, blind, chill, cripple, immobilize, vulnerability, slow had in the game is much much much more higher than what we are seeing in that final panel score: as an example, you are gonna be burst by a direct damage burst (lets say true shot), you see the animation, you dodge it; in an other case, you have been weakned just 5 seconds ago,ande because of that, in the same situation you see the true shot animation, you try to dodge but notice you have not enough energy… so in the score panel will result that was the direct damage that killed you, but in real it was the weakness that was applyed 5 seconds ago. Condi are having more and more impact in the game, to the point that boon and direct damage are becoming less important than how many condi you actualy have applied in your bar and how many cleanse are on cd.

But the real problem is not if we are in a boon meta, a condi meta, a zerk meta or so… the real problem is that even when we are not in a condi meta, condi gameplay promote a lazy spam gameplay, meaning you will not win because you are fast thinker, or because you are reacting/counterplaying the opponent movement or skills, but because you are fast at spamming randomly buttons, this happens because unfortunately condi are getting too much free application by traits, sigill, runes and too many skills. The reason behind pvers asking for condi buff it was that especialy pvers who are usualy casual players, understand too that playing condi is much more easy than play a glassy zerker, and because they are casual, they dont want to have to train their fast reactions, they wanna do the same damage while beeing lazy… so here we go condi get the buffs!

The real problem is that the condi are not fun… that’s the reason i created this topic, and the fact that even a power based class like warrior is forced to go condi by the direction i’m seeing on anet changing traits and redesigning berserker specialization traits, make me sad… like really really sad. I played pvp yesterday whit my guild leader, he is one of the most patient player i have meet in this game, meaning he can like keep commanding in wvw even when people are lazy or not listening; but even this didnt saved him by ragequitting at the third game we met 2 reapers on the opposite team. And is not a l2p like many people always say, he had always the TOP condi cleared stat at the end of the game, the problem is that the condi spam was so high, that the more condi he cleaned, the more condi he was getting!! To the point where it becomes more efficient try to not even waste time/slot in using cleanse skills, but just go full offensive yolo and try to kill the bunker reaper double life faster than the condi load thicking on you.

The real question is: do you guys like condi? Because if is so, then maybe i’m too different from the mass to be able to find a game that i can enjoy.

they should have decreased the cd of berserker stance instead of givving it extra seconds duration

“Condi is the path to the dark side. Condi leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. And hate leads to gamedeath.”

“Yes, a Pro player’s strength flows from the power build. But beware of the condi side. Chill, fear, weakness; the cond side of the Skilled gameplay are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the condi path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obindo-Wan’s apprentice.”

“If you end your power gameplay now — if you choose the quick and easy play as Vader did — you will become an agent of condi.”

“A Warrior must have the deepest movement reading, the most timing mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the wirlwind, to the eviscerate. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Burning. Heh. Bleeding. Heh. A Warrior craves not these things.”

“The condi side blinds everything. Impossible to hit the target is.”

” Faith in your new condi build misplaced may be. As is your faith in the condi side of the gameplay. “

You are assuming we are spending our time here in the forum without having spend all the time hours and hours trying all the builds you are suggesting us.
“Hybrid condi/damage work good enough”, is not enough if a sleeping revenant player can outclass you with a similar build and with half the effort, while giving the proper support to the team.
And to say it all, i never copyplast any build, since thats what meta players noob do and since thats what are you even suggesting!!! copy past that condi/damage hybrid and you’ll be okay. Warrior was meta when it was hambow or shoutbow, and guess wath, i tryed those build, but never played those builds.
But then ago we had to shut up since there was in fact a build working (a boring one), even while other build where absolutely trash. Now that in fact there’s not a warrior meta build we still have to shut up, cuz warrior is balanced and is legit that you can overwhelm him with any class with absolutely 0 practice needed (except maybe with mesmer, poor mesmer players i feel you), cuz other class builds play by theirself and they are trying to sell us their “skill” and telling we should get to their “skill level”, while is not them winning, but theyr broken class mechanincs and build.

Lexander.4579:

it would greatly help warrior if warrior players learnt how to play, warrior wasnt that bad before and now he’s absolutely fine

Enlight us! Show us your skilled warrior gameplay, cuz we are too dumb after 3 years of warrior only to not be able to find a way to play this class in a competitive level.

I think he wrote bad, he should have named like decapitate vs flaming Fury, then this topic would have sense.

Fivedawgs.4267:

That will just be way too OP. Mind you with outrage this trait heal every 10 sec so about 2k health and 1 condi remove every 2 sec?? That’s more than mending. So you’re suggesting is selfish overall because RR is already OP as it is.

You have to be cc’ed in order to gain the heal. This means it doesnt heal for 2k every 10 seconds. Also the trait doesnt work against daze to let you know. As it said in description, you have to be STUNNED. If there’s something you DONT have to do against warrior running Rousing Resilience, is stunning him.
Aniway, i would change it in this way: remove the 1000+ togness gain (it’s useless aniway since togness scaling so bad), make it heal like a defiant stance instead. Meaning when you break out of a stun, activate a defiant stance for 4 sec (30sec cd).
This will force the other class skill spamm to watch carefull on the warrior bar, so that they can avoid the healing from Rousing Resilence, and in the same time will help against condi spam, since defiant stance will still heal a bit against those condi thicks.
This would help also warrior to be less signet dependent (i would remove that healing skill too with this upgrade to make things fair), making him more reactionaly/situational, and will open space for the different healings they recently buffed, like To The Limit or mending.

I would change every weapon associated trait.
Like making the cd of weapons lower as they were traited. This could help warriors to not be forced to take fast hands since it should be able to rotate better his weapon skills, and not be forced on traitlines only because of those said traits. So as Burning Arrows trait as an example, it wont reduce 20% longbow cd skills, cuz they will be already have cd lowered by default. but it will be like "Dual Shot causes 2 seconds of burning (per shot), and longbow skills are 15% more faster when hitting a burning foe.
Same goes with mace trait: Sundering mace, every mace skill cause vulnerability for 10s. This would be not on dazed/stunned opponent but by default, and mace skills would gain reduction cds as default. Just to know, who has ever take this trait to start with? Guess why, these trait are so underperforming.
Same goes with Merciless hammer, competing with other traits in discipline, all these traits need fixes.
To end this, i would lower berserker stance cd, and make resistance not corruptable but only removable, and making it pulsing every 4 seconds instead of 3.

Adrenal Healt isnt working in a proper way. Many trait and warrior mechanics are designed to gain advantage on spend the adrenaline, and essentialy a warrior will want to hit is burst, else he is no more gaining new adrenaline and letting his burst cd not rotating. I would suggest, gain healt for 10 seconds as adrenaline healt is right now, but to activate adrenal healt regeneration you actualy have to spend your adrenaline. This would help warrior active gameplay instead of camping on full adrenaline just to heal a bit.

endure pain: fix the bug that delay his activation. it happens very often now, that my combat log show many hits dealing 0 to me, then a random decapitate hits me for 8k, then a trow axe dealing me 0 again. This means endure pain was active before the decapitate hits, and still active when it hit. This bug is happening with many skills, and it seems like endure pain activation is delayed sometimes. Fix fix fix!!!

Defy pain: remove this trait, it promoves lazy gameplay that will result in non dodging opponents burst. Put a trait that instead when hit at 25% lifebar regenerate the entire endurance bar of you and your allys, break stun and give vigor for 6 sec (40sec cd).

To end this, as i said already a couple of million times, i would change the minor traits of tactic lines, and fuse them in a single trait, adding different support traits on the other 2 new free minor traits, like giving protection or resistence to the team when hit by opponents fields (off course with a cd). This would make warrior melee have a sense to go melee, instead of kiting and running aroung never on point cuz scared of the field condi spam.

Delete the Arms line completely and redesign it cuz is … just bad.

… that they know nothing about warrior apparently.
This patch buff is a total troll, not even starting from the so called “buff to heals”, cuz ye signet buff is a troll, mending is still useless, blood reckoning is actualy probably the worst healing in the game, defiant stance is still the sad version of the revenant healing (and considering revenant has access to 4 heal skills if using shield, this is even more ridicoulous), and to the limit would be a thing if it was 25 sec cd instead of increased heal.
To be fair, the only available heal is still… guess what… healing signet!!! Wich is still embarassing compared to other classes, since it can just heal 8k in 20 seconds.
Actualy, anet developers are just saying us “you have to dake defence line, discipline and berserker”, tactics is for pve and has the most saddest minor traits of gw2 history, most of the others classes have one single minor trait that summarize the entire tactics line, strenght would be nice but it force you with a GS (still the adepts traits are kitten), and ye arms good for trolling.
And dont let me start to talk about warriors skills, warhorn? 2 skills that togher do less than a single skill 4 of revenant staff, decapitate??! okay now i want to hear a single reason from developers, gimmi the reason to use this skill, except for draining my adrenaline as a result of 1 triple chop autoattack. Rlly why decapitate is so bad? if it has to have a so ridicoulous dmg output, at least give it a leap 600 range, something that a melee oriented class should have, but rlly every time i go to berserker and i look to decapitate skill rdy, i immediately swap cuz it would be a waste to use.

And now we have to come to this: brutal shot…. okay now i want a name from anet developers… the name of the genius giving an autododge to a skill that immobilize for 1 second. Rlly the genius who elaborated this skill, what was he thinking? lets give the warrior an extra evade to catch up with revenant and other classes? So, the genius, first of all made an evade that is not immediate, this means warriors need to predict the future, i’m gonna be burst in 1/2 second so i should use skill 4 (pfff), but okay warrior doesnt need skill i heard i can live with this, but furthermore…. the same skill that evade after 1/2 second of the cast gives 1s immobilize!!!!!! TROLOLOLORLORLRORLROL warrior TROLOLOLOL. Cuz ye you can now immobilize for 1 second, and guess what? you wont be able to land any attack aniway if that immobilize hit, cuz you are evading meanwhile!! GHAHGAHGHAGHAHGH TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Is like, mesmer from now your sword skill 3 will immobilize for 1 second, but you wont be able to use any burst skill in that second, F1 will be disable for the entire duration of the immobilize, same goes for sword skill 2!!!
Was it too hard to make the evasion BEFORE the immobilize hit? Need a Nobel to get that? Was too OVERPOWERED?? While ele is evading during the entire duration of rapid fire, and revenant the same with sword skill 3 and staff skill 5???
And to end this…the ultimate troll… berserker stance, the almost only counter for a melee class, lets even say the most susceptible class to condition spam, became countered by… conditions! Cuz now resistance can be corrupted or removed, so now we dont have anymore even those 10 seconds to try to land our attacks (i wrote “try” on purpouse, cuz opponents could just kite us for the entire duration of the berserker stance), but now you are removing also the only 10 seconds to be able to play as a warrior.

I have got to diamond with warrior only soloQ last season, almost legend (2 pips), and i can tell that was one of the most frustrating experience i had in a videogames, getting flamed by teammates before match even start, getting flamed if lost and getting flamed if win (cuz people start even to think they won 4v5 when they have a warrior in team), but the most frustrating thing was loosing from nobrain players playing overwhelming classes. I never got outplayed, i got outclassed. I challenge any anet developer to get diamond with warrior next season and then come back here to tell everyone their experience.
Sorry for beeing rude, but i had rlly to give my feedback for your work, cuz i think you have to understand when you are doing a terrible job, and what you have done from HOT release was in fact a TERRIBLE JOB. I also suggest to take any idea for the future changes you are gonna do directly from the warrior forum, there’s plenty of better ideas than the ones you came up with this patch troll buff. Players have better experience than you, use them.

well i would like to not get boons, unfortunately any kittenty traitline and skill of my class i use is giving me boons and i cant stop that only because i see a necro on me and… oh wait i have to deactivate my traitline… o kitten i’m in combat gg im full of condi i lost.

And for those who says warrior counter necro… you never played warrior.
This was true maybe one year ago, while necro was suffering heavy CC pressure of the war… now you know what? reaper has even more stab than warrior lol

to me stability became a problem only when the numbers grow, i noticed after 20 people stability ends in nothing, in a no mean boon.
This often translate in a melee charge stopped before even getting in melee range.
But the real problem is not the amount of CC, but the fact that stability that should be a counter of CC is in fact countered… by CC!!
Now if you add to this the fact that stability can even be boonstrip, you discover that stability is actualy the worst boon in the game XD XD. The paradox is, that aegis or a dodge can counter a CC better than stability.

I reccomend to revert the stability nerf while diminuishing the access to it from overall all the classes, or even better make stability a no boonstrippable boon.
To be clear, i disagree on boon strip to resistance and aegis too, i think the only boons that should be stripped are might, regeneration, fury, protection.
The reason? while those above said boons are giving you a clear advantage in fights, resistance and especialy stability are not giving you an advantage, are just …. giving you a chance to play XD XD.

Laraley.7695:

Shala.8352:

if a single amulet remove is “destroying” your class, then you probably have to admit you were carried by that specific amulet, wich means you have been slacking during all this time not trying different and more hardcore builds, i.e ele players don’t take that high skill they are selling to us, and they have been competitive only thx to a build. If you was a really decent group of players, you will adapt and learn to play!!

Yes, I think you figured it out. Not a single ele is skilled enough to make a build without celestial amulet viable. All elementalists including all those top players should just go and learn to play clearly.

I didnt said that, i said ele are slackers cuz they have been carried by an amulet for a year+, and i dont see a single ele trying something different.

Silverkey.2078:

Anyone who plays mesmer in the current meta knows that 1 condi on shatter is not that much…
I play bunker, with:

• 5 condi cleanse on heal = 0.17 condi/s
• 7 condi cleanse on null field = 0.22 condi/s
• 1 condi cleanse on shatter = 0.18 condi/s
• resistance on F5, null field, and sometimes time warp

So in total, about 0.6 condi cleanse/s, a bit more thanks to alacrity (but this is getting nerfed) and a bit less considering that shatters are used for more than just condi cleanse so they are rarely used on CD.

And at the end, I still melt to condi if focused (in particular by reapers corrupting all the boons since I also get boons on shatter).

You should remember also that this is a heavy investment. Condi cleanse is the main reason a mesmer uses inspiration. We don’t get much more out of this trait line than condi cleanse. Remove it and the whole traitline becomes really really weak.

nice maths man, 0,6 condi cleanse per seconds, alias 1 condi removed every 2 sec…
isnt that enough? How can you whine about it?
and what if that remove condi on shatter would be on hit rather than on use? would be more in line with warrior cleansing ire, and you would start thinking before saying you have no good cleansers.

if a single amulet remove is “destroying” your class, then you probably have to admit you were carried by that specific amulet, wich means you have been slacking during all this time not trying different and more hardcore builds, i.e ele players don’t take that high skill they are selling to us, and they have been competitive only thx to a build. If you was a really decent group of players, you will adapt and learn to play!!

Shirlias.8104:

Berserk too?
works as BS and gives you stab.

“You stun a necro? who cares, he has double life, you probably are chilled and weakened, so he can even /laugh at you while beeing stunned”

If you want i translate better: reaper doesnt need pulsing stability like berserker.

Well they are buffing rifle… cuz ye i chosed warrior cuz i want to play ranged, cuz god even an engi is a better melee than warrior. I just think they have no idea on how to make melee classes viable. Actualy, i think in any other game when you close the gap and get in a melee range with a melee class, you are in advantage against ranged opponent… in this game NOT!!!!! It’s the opposite, opponent necro/DH bow/ranger are even happy of the warrior getting close, so that they can kittenbomb aoe on themself.
I’m playing solo warrior on diamond league, and you know what are the most common top player i get in the end of the game? Top healing to self, and TOP CONDITION DAMAGE RECIEVED.
So arenanet, the problem of warrior is not the healing, is the fact that a melee class will recieve double the condi apply than any other class, cuz to land your attacks you will go in melee and no matter what, you will proc some of those aoe spam on a team fight.
So instead of trying to transform us warrior in a CoD sniper thing, try to give us some DECENT CONDI CLEANSE mechanics at least in line with other classes. If you dont want us to be able to cleanse our ally is okay, we wont have that support role to differentiate from others classes, but rlly if you rlly want to increase our self sustain, give us a decent anti condi mechanic.

Also, another thing i totaly disagree, is that class like reaper has more access to stability than warrior -.-, really no sense, you stun a necro? who cares, he has double life, you probably are chilled and weakened, so he can even /laugh at you while beeing stunned.

And to end this, i’ve watched some esl pro league match, what i’ve seen is that players are not using theyr skill with accuracy, meaning that they dont really care if some of their skill will miss, they can just spam them! is a spam fest!!! Most of them are not even caring to hit the target, theyr CD are rotating much better than warrior that it doesnt matter if some attack miss, cuz in fact they can easy reset any fight and try again!!!
With warrior, if you miss some crucial attack, only thing you can do is try to run away!!!
Warrior the easier class of the game? No, warrior is the only class that actualy take skill, every class should have similar mechanic, and punish players for brainless spam.

pff you already got a 200hp heal bonus on 10 seconds, dont exagerate

only me thinking that mercenary and sage amulets will just make any class that can spam condi on autoattacks/autoprocs/sigill just OP? (i.e any class that isnt warrior)

Did anyone read the comment i did about condi?
I feel like Reaper is actualy already a brain death class to play, with these amulets reaper and the incoming buffs on Reaper, i feel like we have found the next braindeath class meta dominating!

Actualy, this skill is totaly underperforming, meaning that i prefer a lvl 1 eviscerate than it.
There’s absolutely no reason to use it in berserker mode, its just a waste of adrenaline.
I understand it cant have same dmg of a lvl 3 eviscerate cuz it would be too much spammable in berserker mode (well not that much considered the cd of certain burst skill, like CoR and True Shot), but really its almost ridicoulos. To be honest, the aoe is a big SHeit, meaning that an autoattack axe with 3 targets would be better than Decapitate.
I expect at least to make it a leap of 600 range, if you really are afraid to increase his damage.

Ty.

to me the game has been ruined when they decided that condi damage should have become at the same level of power damage. It was never balanced anymore since that.

That should never have happened in the first place. Condi should be a support damage, a damage that you can do even while you are blocking or kiting to recover, but never as main DPS. This force people to bring condi removal and higher vitality, so they lose their offensive traits/utility, i.e build diversity is no existent anymore. To me, the death of the berserker amulet is the death of the game.

Best option to leave this boring meta would be making togness affecting condi damage recieved, and making condi removal only able to remove condi movements, like weakness, chill, cripple, immobilize. Else, delete any random condi proc (for example EVERY sigill/rune/trait proc on hit), and make condi application only on easy read animation attacks. Would be much more easy to balance, since now condi damage is destroying build diversity. You can survive a berserker with berserker amulet yourself, by dodging and beeing faster than opponent, you cant survive condi with a berserker set. Alternative 3: if people run amulet without condi dmg, the condi dmg per tick should never go over 50 even with a full 25 stacks. So decrease the condi damage calculation on lower condi damage stat. Alternative 4: if you are using a condi dmg skill, that skill should not also have a power based dmg.

Plz Anet make condi damage only a support dmg! It has no sense right now.