Guild Wars 2

style.6173:

Condi specs are ANETs solution to those who can’t play zerker.

THIS.
why even bothering on playing condi mesmer when you can play burst? the answer is: you cant play burst berserker.

Godmoney.2048:

I would have loved this too, but we all know this isn’t happening. Even if they were to invest the time and effort into making a open pvp server it would require a ton of effort and money to make happen.

I think this has about a snowballs chance in heck of happening. It’s just something you have to get over about GW2.

Maybe the new WvW map will invigorate your roaming and ganking life?

No this wont happen XD, unless they delete any form of cheese easy condi damage based build XD XD

i play warrior DPS, and i usualy /laugh when an opponent warrior use rampage in a 1v1 situation. He will never kill me, i dont even have to put condi pressure on him, i will just evade while hitting him in a safety spot with wirlwind and bladetrail and kite a bit, use dodge while falling asleep between one of his attack and another, and in the end of the fight when i’ve killed him i will tell him “now dont you would have prefered signet of rage instead?”

Kicker.8203:

BurrTheKing.8571:

• Rousing Resilience Buffed by 130%

• Last Stand ICD now 40 seconds

• Rifle DMG buff

• Shield skills CD reduction and Bash now stuns for 2 seconds

I agree with the rifle and the rousing changes but Last Stand? It is really strong because it doesn’t stunbreak but it prevents the stun so u can safestomp with it without worrying about having to restart the stomp. Also 6s of vigor on all stances and the 25% duration is pretty strong for a possible 3 stances as utilites and then comes the endure pain trait and this trait resulting tournament players already opting for it even thought it has a 90 s recharge.

I’d make it work like Hard to Catch on thieves meaning you still get interrupted but you immediately stunbreak a split second later. Because on 40s cd this will be totally nuts and noskill otherwise.

Difference with thief trait: thief has a TON of evades and dodge/teleporting, wich makes much more harder to stun a thief than a warrior. Warrior is a first line melee, means it will be much more easy for him to get stunned. Thats why the difference on these traits. I played all other classes and i noticed they didnt had so much stability compared to warrior, but then after playing i simply understood they didnt need that much stability like warrior does. Simply every single attack of warrior has a timecast, wich makes, without the possibility of have any instant cast (WICH THIEF HAS PLEEENTY), to not only been in trouble when stunned, but also to in fact been in trouble when just it comes to LAND an attack.

to be honest, even 50% is not enough. If i was a mesmer, i would take PU even with no stealth duration buff, only cuz of aegis and random boon gaining from stealth. Only difference is that without stealth buff would make other grandmaster traits more appealing

And for wvw roamers: NO, this “nerf” wont reduce the amount of cancer condi mesmer roaming out there.

Purple Miku.7032:

Shala.8352:

bad statement, mesmer isnt loosing range on GS autoattack or on phantasmal berserker summon while affected by quickness.
This means skills like RUSH and Eviscerate shouldnt lose range whenn affected by quickness.

How is my statement bad when it was factually correct? Just because I’m claiming that it’s not a bug doesn’t mean that I’m disagreeing with the OP that it’s irritating for things to be this way.

Mesmer GS autoattack range isn’t even relevant because quickness doesn’t affect attack range, it just affects the speed at which a skill is channeled.

“quicknes doesnt affect attack range” yea sure thing you said it, then why my rush and my eviscerate are loosing attack range???? You are answering alone to yourself, is because quickness isnt working as intended on movement skills. SO THIS IS THE BUG WE ARE REPORTING: QUICKNESS RUSH SHOULD BE SAME RANGE OF NORMAL RUSH IN LESS TIME. Not hard to understand that’s how it should be, just compare quickness effect on any other skill and you should be able to get it. Blink loosing range while in quickness boon? NOOOOOOOOPE. Easy comparisons man…

Purple Miku.7032:

Death Stroke.9875:

there seems to be multiple skills in multiple classes affected by the quickness bug and during the betas slowness seemed to have the inverse effect causing some movement skills to move much further than inteded

This isn’t a bug, it’s doing exactly what it’s intended to be doing which is halving the cast time of the skill. This consequently results in lower evade frames for skills with evades, lower block duration from skills that block, and lower distance traveled from skills that change position. At the same time, this also makes the damage applied from skills faster.

Everything having to do with your weapon skills and utilities is 50% faster. That’s what it’s intended to do.

What you should be saying is that it’s an irritating oversight that it alters the secondary effects of some skills to make them more difficult to make use of.

bad statement, mesmer isnt loosing range on GS autoattack or on phantasmal berserker summon while affected by quickness.
This means skills like RUSH and Eviscerate shouldnt lose range whenn affected by quickness.

Necro: if you playing gsword/hammer or axe/shield you should not have problem against this class, warrior is the natural counter to necro. Just never walk on their aoe and they shouldnt be able to charge fast enough their “green bar”. Also, hammer CC chain should be a big problem for them to deal. Just dont try to finish them in a single burst, dont train them with autoattack, always dodge.

Mesmer: you are right, they are the natural counter of warrior, especialy with blind spam. Is not theyr burst that much a problem, since once you understood what to dodge you should be able to survive it very easily. Only way to kill them is in one single burst, wich isnt easy cuz they have so many evades/stealth/block/blind/distortion. Try to make him waste those defence tools and remember that even when stealthed, mesmer can take heavy damage from hammer autoattack/CC and GS wirlwind. So differently than with necro, you have to spam autoattack against mesmer, also only just to kill clones.
I can add that to kill a mesmer with warrior you need double his experience and skill, but it’s not impossible.

Ranger: how you really have problems with ranger pew pew?? I can understand against a tanky condi ranger, but a pew pew one??

i dont want rush as a teleport skill.
There’s already enough cheese teleporting classes.

Well i dont agree with opener at all… rlly a good thief is much more scary than a good warrior.
I see the difference between warrior and thief, i mean yes warrior is much more easy to play and learn, but when you come to high level, they are at the same spot, no warrior is even in a worst spot, since its easy to play but hard to make the difference at high level.
I agree only on mesmer statements, yes its easy to play and… even more easier to master!!

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Mh, cele ele = hybrid, cele necro = hybrid, settler/cleric shoutbow = support, bunker bunker guard = support, burn guard = condi, d/p thief = power, shatter mesmer = power, maraudeur engi = power …

Did i forget a meta build? Well, the majority seems to be power or hybrid (even if we count cele as condi, it would be only half of the meta builds) anyways, so where are all those meta condi builds?

and to be fair, “cele ibrid ele” is not feared cause of their power based damage… same goes for warrior shoutbow, has no burst but the condi damage is carrying him.
Engi power? well i really fear much more a condi engi than a power engi to be honest…
Shatter mesmer? Their burst would never ever kill me if wasnt for the condi spam they apply.

Most of the meta builds you mentioned are in fact carried by condi applications…

Doug Whisper.2465:

How about adding a rune set which cleanse conditions when using elite skill? Wait! Isn’t it called rune of lyssa?

XD and wich elite has a 6sec cd? XD XD

Problem is: there’s not enough condi cleansers compared to the condi easy spam.

And back in topic, ye condition mesmer is the easiest class to play of the game.

fast hand baseline
cleansing ire deleted since is the worst cleanse mechanic i have ever seen in a game, and replaced with one decent ON DEMAND
eviscerate range damage more stable or range fix
Put quickness buff while casting rush for like 6sec. Fix the bug making gap closer skills be shorter while in quickness boon.
Total rework on Tactics line, wich has the most useless trait between gw2 classes, especialy the minor ones.
Delete thick skin and replace it with a decent one.

Since patch 23 july, any movement skill range should not be affected anymore by conditions like cripple and chill.
This is not happening with eviscerate. I am still loosing range while eviscerate with chill (or a combination of chill and cripple).

Plz fix.

So uh… many saying PU mesmer wont be nerfed cuz in pvp if you are so much time invisible you wont cap (i can just /laugh to this statement but ye, its like saying a ranger is useless in pvp cuz he cant easy kite while staying in the point and keeping it contested).

But aniway the main fact is, that if PU doesnt affect that much in pvp, why just not nerf it for wvw since is making roaming (wich is one of the best funny part of this game) not enjoyable??

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Sounds similar to how much better Charge used to be compared to Call Of The Wild. I would say a tiny bit of a nerf to the Revenants shield would bring things in line.

With the might you can stack just from blocking with the trait, Warrior shield can be pretty good. I often run in to supply camps in WvW with #5 skill going so the NPC’s give me 15+ stacks of might before I even start attacking.

The cooldown is long for a short duration without the trait but Warrior shield is still a good weapon considering all the other defensive options a Warrior has available to it. I mean Engineer Gear Shield has like a 20second cooldown? For the same effect but Engi also has less ways to facetank damage so it only makes sense for their block to have a shorter cooldown IMO.

Very questionable that engi has less way to facetank damage XD XD XD, especialy considering that for engi is really easier to reset the fight with his healing.

no for real the main problem of cleanser skills, is that you cant chose wich condi you want to cleanse. Also to be a decent cleanse skill, it has to be on demand, else is not a counter, cuz is too much based on luck or situational.
Like cleansing ire and brawler recovery, are all bad cleanse mechanics. Mesmer mantra of resolve is instead a decent cleanse skill.
Even generosity sigil. yea i’m happy to proc it to transfer you my 2s bleed… so i have to wait other 10 sec to proc it again. Also need to hit to counter is so sad, promote the annoying kiting typical of condi players.

All around condi is too much luck based and less skill favored.
I mark again that condition that deal damage should not be removable and scale down based on the enemy armor. Only condi cleansable: cripple, immobilize, weakness, blind….
Best balance, and forcing condi players to sacrifice their tanky armor if they truly want to do damage with condition. So they will be at the same level of burst dps class.

Eval.2371:

GrandHaven.1052:

…

Bumy.8057:

…

k so, I’ll agree with you both that burning application is somewhat over bearing on certain classes but aside from those 2 offenders (burn guard and ele) condition damage is weaker than power builds for two main reasons:

1. Condition damage as I have gone over numerous times here is cleanse able at any point in time during the encounter you can erase their build up.
2. Condition damage application for the most part is avoidable by not steeping onto fields or by dodging that skill that applies conditions to as you would with a power skill.

Conditions by all accounts have twice as many options at your disposal to deal with compared to the just outright power damage. Now I do agree with you that new or lower skilled players will struggle against condition damage for two reasons:

1. Many players do not know how or when to cleanse a condition. This only really comes with playtime experience and knowing the limit of your build.
2. Many players do not recognize the animations of condition skills. Therefore they cannot dodge or avoid them. This is mainly because power based builds have been so prevalent for so long.

To anyone that struggles with certain builds/classes with conditions(this isn’t exclusive to condition base builds btw) go play them. You’ll learn very quickly the ins out of the build that is giving you so much trouble and often realize that after they burn their cool downs most of these builds have nothing but an auto attack for the next 20 seconds. If you can figure out which two skills it usually is that you need to dodge or cleanse, your opponent for the most part becomes substantially weaker and easier to deal with.

This is why its considered a learn to play issue. You do not under stand the opponent your playing against and/or how to manage your skills for the matchup.

And wich skills/trait you change to “manage yourself” against a heavy burst team? Dont you just switch amulet from berserker to marauder or soldier if you see 2 shatter/dps mesmers? Are you even totaly change your build like you are doing against condi groups?
You know what is the main used food in wvw? the -40% condition duration… guess why

Salamander.2504:

Shala.8352:

i dont know any condi player that playing a berserker build can beat me
Reason? condi is based on attrition and skill rotationin, so a condi player will have average slower reaction times combo and less reflex than a pure burst player!!!

T raw.4658:

No condi players generally aren’t able to perform nearly as well with power builds.

Defending condi mesmer at this point in time really illustrates a person’s lack of wanting the game balanced and skill based.

Do you guys only play one class, and one build? You never try other styles of play?

Is it truly beyond belief that there are players who excel at both condi and power builds?

I’m almost speechless.

Yes i played mesmer, both dps/shatter (wich i liked) and condi mesmer (wich literalyy made me fall asleep cuz of the slow and low skill gameplay involved, i was literaly like immortal and my opponents would have eventualy always die after time).

Tried also many other classes on condi gameplay, but less time spend on them, cuz the result was the same as with condi mesmer. Main reason was that i felt somehow sad to see my opponents dieing while i wasnt hitting them.

aniway we aren’t going aniway with these discussions, if people love condi meta and adapt to it then is what we will have in pvp. If people really dislike it, pvp will lose more and more players cuz people will stop to play (what is happening nowadays).
I’ve always tought that a build based on pure condition damage should never have exist, i have always just seen condition as a support of damage during the time and attrition not as a burst, and that arenanet should have tought better mechanics ways to diversify classes than one been good with condi and one been good on pure dps.

These are my last toughts on current meta.

Salamander.2504:

Bumy.8057:

You do know why condi builds are so prevalent? Because its a foolproof and mindless gameplay, something the carebears / casuals adore. It doesn’t matter if you attempt to ’ evade or block the attacks that apply the condis ’ because the relevant condi builds APPLY CONDITIONS ON AUTO ATTACK ontop of the ’ condi burst skills ‘. So even if you use your defensive abilities dealing with just the condi burst, then you’re kitten out of luck because in 3 seconds your gonna have another 10+ confusion stacks and 10+ torment stacks killing you regardless of if your moving / not attacking.

Really? Lets take a look at the AA’s of the “relevant” classes:

Condi mesmer: slow, single stack torment, or slow bleeds/burn from staff (<<1k dmg auto).
Condi necro: slow, single stack bleed or poison.
Condi guard: No condi on AA. 1 stack of burning every kittens (a ~1k stack)
Condi ranger: No condi on AA.
Cele ele: No condi on fire attunement AA.

And wait, what? Why shouldn’t a condi build be able to apply condi’s on auto’s? power builds have burst attacks and still hit (hard) on auto’s, why should a condi build be any different?

My guess is, if you are QQing because a condi build killed you, that player would have killed you just as easily on a power build.

i dont know any condi player that playing a berserker build can beat me
Reason? condi is based on attrition and skill rotationin, so a condi player will have average slower reaction times combo and less reflex than a pure burst player!!!

Oh also i forgot: make protection and weakness working against condi damage, to be totaly fair

to me is much more simple:
how to counter dps burst build? get 1 stat called armor (or learn to dodge the one burst? since i’m running berserker no need even armor to counter other dps class, just avoid their burst and drop mine)
how to counter condi damage? change your entire build or even utilities to have condi cleansers. No matter how much defence stats you have, the condi damage will always be the same

Make your calculation and think if its really fair to go condi damage builds.

So is very simple to balance: make condi damage be affected by armor stat. Make cleanser skills only work against condi that not deal damage, like weakness cripple chill immobilize and whatever. Since a warrior dps would be happy to use a cleanse on weakness instead of being forced to wait using it for the condi burning/confusion burst.
Another chance would be remove all the instant/trait proc condi apply, so that there will be always a decent number of condi cleanser compared to the condi application.
I’m ok on a condi burst caused by a skill like purging flame, that can be seen and dodged just like an eviscerate, but i’m not okay on all the condi spam autoattack that is happening nowadays…

ragnarokda.1805:

I run into warriors with soldier runes on often enough to consider them. And it’s not like bunker guards are uncommon, either. I still don’t understand where you’re getting this “double experience” stuff with power builds? What builds are you talking about that are so much more complicated than condi builds? I honestly want to know because I feel like I wanna play those ones since there is so much more prestige in playing power over condi.

Scrubs play condi? I guess? No idea.

well question is another: did condi players started by playing condi builds or power builds? And why they switched to condi players then? not enough fast, or just easy gameplay? just make 2+2 man, is very easy to understand that condi gameplay is much more easy.

Also i dont consider soldier a power build, is a tank build. Guards bunker as you mentioned are not power build either, they are just hibrid. I think of this since the fun thing is that the main dps of a bunker guardian will come out from the burning instead of the direct damage XD XD XD.
Also celestial that should be an hibrid, since should have both power and condi, is in fact carried by condi too.

oh i also have to add this: the current condi meta is not fun at all, forcing build done like its more important to have cleanse than offensive/movement/alteration skills, it’s really sad and flat game.

i think people who are writing in this topic have no clue on what they are talking about, or they are just all progamers with a pro premade party well organized… rlly shout warrior???? are you kidding me? where do you see a shout warrior in a solo ranked?? are we playing the same game?
Condition build are easy and cheap, means they not require that hard set up and burst with a fast sequence of skills, thats the only reason why condi players are having better MMR nowadays, its very simple: easy gameplay, easy success.
Off course as people said, if they meet a shoutbow warrior they will be in trouble, but i dont think that much in trouble since to me actualy shoutbow warrior is kinda useless.
But of course the opposite team must know you are playing heavy condition, so i dont think its that easy even for a premade to chose to go “shoutbow warrior cleanser bot”.

Still i think condi players have heavy advantage in 1v1, and in solo ranked 1v1 scenario are happening more often than you tought. A power build player has to get double the experience and double the skill to defeat a condi player. And off course has to be faster than opponent, since the more the duel goes on the more condi become effective.

i would like that condition damage would be affected by enemy armor stat, by protection and weakness. So that condi burst would have same bad results as a power burst if done to a bunker.
Also, to compensate this, i would make only no damage condition cleansable, like slow, chill, cripple, immobilize, vulnerability.

I think this would fit much more the concept of “damage during time” that condition should be.
Also this would give armor and togness a decent role in the game, so that class that have more base armor but less evades/block/disappears would be more in match with classes that with less armor have more survivability compared to the so called “heavy armor” class (see warrior sustain compared to mesmer and elementalist)

Also, thinking about cleanse as a counter to condi burst as actualy are is totaly wrong, you will need one second to react to the fact you have 25 stack of confusion and many burns on you, so with armor affecting condition damage, you wont die in less than a thick, so that the opponent will have to keep it up the condi stack to eventualy kill you.

stomping require risk, means you need a good reward (ally rallies) to go for a stomp.
Also a faster stomp than the opponent for me is a form of skill, if you fear rallies concentrate dps on their downed, this is a team game, you are not playing many duels at the same time of your allies. Its a team against another team. Ressing one downed has the same value of killing one of them (if not more), so you should stop tunnel vision and watch only your opponents.

ANd to speak honestly, if you are loosing cuz you had upscaled on your zerg rallying opponent’s people, then well you deserve it. Or are you saying that you should win even with upscaled???

A true warrior will never play condi, warrior is the fairest class in the game and doesnt need to go easy cheap condition damage, thats why i would never play bow warrior, i only want go DPS! So i hope that torch wont have any burning noob condition skill.

Firelysm.4967:

abc.5790:

eles have insta cast cleanses as do guards and warriors and rangers and engies not just mesmers

im sorry but this is really a l2p issue and we shouldn’t balance classes based on what happens in hotjoin.

And rangers, wowowowow.. what ???
Rangers have literally the worst condi cleansing in the game currently.
We have 3 condi removel in 10 sec interval, where we don’t have a clue when this cleanse will happen, this means you’ll already eat 5-6 sec of burn which is crucial OR your pet will get those conditions and will instantly die of burning unless you are running bear or drakes.. LOL

Then we have survival skills to remove condis, really? The last thing ranger should do is waste utility stun break or any survival skill just for condi cleanse. RANGER NEEDS utility to play, not to use them for cleansing condis..

Condition melee ranger with s/t + a/d is fine, because you run signet + remove on survival skill use, because you use 3-4 survival skills anyways. BUT… to be fair if you expect power ranger to run more then 2 utilities that are survival you are wrong, because with current meta, this is IMPOSSIBLE and rangers are literally on the worst position currently to deal with this kind of problems.

Sadly game does have mechanics to prevent power damage, and we know how to deal with power builds, but in condition cases, anet did not provide enough condition clears for classes to make this fights equal, CONDI vs POWER. SO i hope anet got a call from this lecture..

Totaly agree with all of this. But the main problem i already said thousand times is not the fact we dont have enough condi cleanser on demand, is the fact that condi can be applied too much in this game, plus the fact condi should never burst. Its a support damage, every build that has condi damage as the main source of damage should be checked, cuz its wrong.

I m warrior main and i have no problem with building adrenaline. So no need any changes. Adrenaline is fine how it is.
There are much much more heavy problems with warrior gameplay than this one.
Like zetsumei mentioned the lifeforce gain, well i would even like my adrenaline gain been toned down but having a burst skill easy to land like the necro death shroud skills.
Or having my life doubled when activating my adrenaline, deal zetsumei?

well i agree that roaming is pretty dead since the condi rise. Still was one of the thing i most enjoyed in wvw. But i got a solution! simply dont fight condi users XD. If you meet them when roaming, just run away, and possibly wishp them “have fun with your condi cancer”, if we all start avoid people roaming with condi, those people wont be able to play and start trashing their unskilled condi builds.

Its the same thing i am doing in OS when i go duel someone and i notice he is a condi player, i just start jumping and stop fighting.

we already know it, there’s already 9999999 post about it, your skills wont hit 90% of the time and you are the squishiest class of the game, with broken condi cleanser and with no sustain, and off course melee with no decent offensive utiliy.
Arenanet doesnt care seems like balance team have tried warrior only in hot join against pvers.
Other classes players will think they are better players than you and pwn you in any time, deal with it like all the warriors users are doing. Or change class if that makes you feel better.

running condi cleanse cough cough ecc is useless, no matter what you will eventualy run out of condi cleanser, thats why condition are totaly OP.
Is not like toghness that is constantly mitigate the direct damage.
Is not a case that ROM run almost without condi cleanser, is a kill him before condi will eventualy cleave you down.
If arenanet and people like this kittenedd gameplay with unskilled condi apply, then ok have fun.

Also consider that ele ring can cover the entire cap point, so you have 2 options: get the 6 stacks of burning or let him cap.
Also consider that especialy melee class will eventualy get in that ring.
Best counter to melee? spam aoe on yourself.

Iavra.8510:

Warriors have more weapons than any other profession, please give more weapons to mesmers.

NP i will give you all the useless weapons i have with useless and impossible skills to land in exchange of F1 F2 F3 F4 instant burst skills that doesnt require any movement of the character to land. Deal?

@Deimos Tel Arin.7391
“if i ask for useless traits to be made baseline, there could be a slight chance it may happen if i beg hard enough.” You are already saying it by yourself, those are useless traits XD XD and wont help warrior to be decent. What mesmer has get are totaly usefull traits that have been made baseline, so your way of balance is wrong even in this aspect.
You cant pick random traits and make them baseline, there must be a reason. And what is the reason to make those traits you mention to be baseline? THere’s no reason! You said it, they are useless!!! Best way to balance is to spot a weakness, and chose the right traits to compensate that weakness and always COMPARED to other classes weakness.

I dont agree that warrior is a random smashing on keyboard, thats more describing elementalist, the class that has so many skills that doesnt even have to care about CDs, since he will always have skills to spam. Every action, movement, attack of warrior has a timing and a logic, means there’s always the right skill to use in the right moment, the last thing that warrior is doing when playing is pressing random skills.

But i agree about the utilities of warrior been bad, seems like the only decent utility we have are defensive stances or signets. There’s no decent offensive utility in warrior.
I also totaly agree about the useless tactics minor traits, and the bad sinergy rousing resilence has with warrior, considering 50% of the times it will proc, will be with endure pain, and considering that 1000 togness is completely obliterate by protection access other classes have.

Then i agree with “the more warrior’s fight last, the more he is gonna lose”, thats because warrior has bad healings and no sustain, and no condition pressure compared to all the other classes.

I think the most unfunny thing you may have meet is that warrior’s skill are much more harder to be land compared to other classes, but i dont think this is wrong cuz this actualy need more skill, i think is not warrior wrong, but the other classes that have easy burst and easy ranged skills to land. Ranged skills should look more like bladetrail, where you actualy have to aim to your target line instead of click the enemy and push the button.

You chosed the worst and most useless traits of warrior to be made baseline, me as a warrior would prefer not to have those traits made baseline only to not give an excuse to other classes to say “warrior is the simpliest class and is in a good spot in the meta”.

There’s only one trait that deserve to be made baseline, thats called Fast Hands.
Then off course i would totaly change the entire tactic line and Grandmaster traits of defence, but thats another argument.

oO who are those guys. I thought best warrior of the game was me.

why?? So silly question.
First of all, as someone as already said, having to change your build utility to counter condition is just a bad thing, when you can counter power burst with just stats.
Also weakness and protection not affecting condi damage is really bad and poor balance.
Second, no matter how many cleanse you have, the opponent will always have more condi application, is like he is ignoring your counters.
Third, most of power burst skill are on melee based attack, melee base attack = more risk, more reward.
Four and most important: most of condi are applyed as a side effect of multiple skills, means the player can just spam skills to have as a result a condi burst, while on the opposite, for power burst you need to set combos or outplay the opponent with smart movements and telegraphed skills.
Five, condition damage encourages kiting.
Sixth, condi damge should be supposed to be a “damage during time”, not a burst as it is now.
Seven: yea it doesnt require skill to play condi, you can just spam autoattack.

Well talking about wvw mechanics those are the main problems off couse, problems leading players playing wvw not for points but for fights.
I’ve also noticed some lag problems in the last 2 weeks (is not my connection so dont tell me to contact my internet provider), did you increased the border player caps????

Talking about the gameplay, something that really has lowered my fun in the game is the condition patch, wich can make pve players happy, wich can be balanced in a low scale environment where the condi spam can be watch over, but in wvw the amount of condi is much more higher. I’m actualy not enjoying roaming at all, all those condi specs doesnt require any skill. This can be solved by introducing new foods like -40% condition damage, that would be in line with the recent condi love patch.

Sifu.9745:

BlackTruth.6813:

My point is, Warrior right now is balanced. It rewards good players and bad players just should re-roll to easier specs like Guardian in general or D/D ele.

How can an Ele be easier than a Warrior??? Warrior is the easiest spec in the game for me, while Elementalist is disgustingly complicated and requieres 20 fingers to be really effective. Ele might perform better than warr, but requieres much more skilled player.

I play LB + Sw/Sw Celestial and i’m just fine and playsyle is very mobile and easy, ok dmg, ok survivability, can’t be kited.

If spamming 20 buttons is considered skill, then yes ele is not easier than warrior.
If reading the fight, timing the skills, dont follow a set rotation but try to improvise to confuse the opponent and get him off guard, considering movement capability more important to keystroke, and if we consider risk compared to reward, if we consider skill all the things i mentioned here, then ele is easier than warrior.

RoyalCrysis.1065:

People always take about how easy warrior is, its against good players that you see where the skill comes in. You can’t waste skills, and there are some hits you need to land. Keep at it, as much of a warrior’s fight is about knowing the enemy, not just your own skills, and that only comes from practice.

So true. People have always described warrior as an easy class.
To me warrior is easy to play in PVE, hard to master in pvp.

i cant say since i have no way to estimate pvp population, i only get in a 5v5 arena XD

But i cant tell you that since the condition patch hit, wvw population has really sink. I dont know why people stopped to play, but regarding me, roaming and duelling people in wvw is not fun anymore since condition got the damage burst.
Talking about pvp, i have to say that conditions were already heavy in pvp before the patch, now is even more sheetload of them yea, but they were already heavy on the pvp mechanic and meta with celestial stuff. So if people really like to play condition dealing damage for them during time after one single hit, this game should appear perfect for them. I can only say have fun with your condi fest game.

NinjaEd.3946:

Still have quickness on a 15 second cooldown and probably the highest amount of cc available to any class. If people can’t live without turning to a brute every 2 minutes just to fight there is no reason to keep their warrior.

Nah bad arguments. Cuz i would give you my 15 sec quickness cd if you let me have same instant and hard animation read skills like other classes have. Quickness was just an attempt to make warrior able to land some skill.
Same thing goes for the CC. I mean i would give all my hammer/mace CC to ranger in exchange of his taunt every 15 seconds mecanic.
Just to let you know, i run out of stability and stun breaker against a ranger than against a warrior.
Aniway I dont even have to star arguing, but every people should know, the best CC class in the game is mesmer, not warrior.

I tryed several times to play builds without fast hands, warrior is just UNPLAYABLE without it, so i dont wanna hear anyone telling me that a build without this trait does even exist. He is like a dummy running around waiting for that swap to be available.
The main reason have already been said, but is not only that you cant land specific skills without combo between weapon sets.
The warrior dummy is happening mainly because the autoattack cleave is kinda bad in almost all warrior weapons (except maybe axe, but still is a melee attack). Melee autoattack is already a deficit, if you add that to the fact most autoattack of the warrior are so slow in animation, the result will be in warrior running out of skills very quickly and needing that swap faster than other classes. This happens also cuz of the bad utility warrior has, in fact is the class suffering more for the non existing defence traits, forcing him to not having decent offensive utilities. But even with decent defensive traits, all the offensive utilities are bad designed (see stomp kick) or non existing. This is what bring warrior back to be a dummy doing nothing for half the time he would wait for those 9 seconds swap.
If warrior is supposed to be a tanky class then he needs a total remake of tactics and defence line. But with the actualy traits he is not, even necros are way better tank than warrior. So i am assuming arenanet want warrior as a burst class.
To be a burst class you need decent offensive utilities, or ability like shatter mesmers or thief stealth to compensate the time when he is not able to burst. I understand would be stupid warrior to have stealth, so the only way to put him in line with other burst classes is to give him fast hands baseline.
This would be aniway be compensate in comparison from the other burst classes by his easy animation readable skills. In fact, warrior skill animation is the second main reason for FH to be baseline, cuz this trait is the only way for warrior to mess up a bit the opponent read.

People comparing eles traits: your problem with arcana and water is not even close to fast hands warrior problem, in fact you are not loosing any kind of skill rotation or loosing possibility to skills to land by dropping those trait lines, you are not loosing chance to be unpredictable, you not lose chance to drop burst or combos while dropping arcana.
You only lose survivability and ability to regenerate and substain capacity in general.
Is a really different issue that is not affecting your gameplay. You should compare your need of pick water or arcana to the warrior been forced to pick stance utilities, not compare it to fast hands, cuz is a totaly different need.

well i would always love to play against 4 thief, you even had warrior so should have been easy, wait for their kill attack from stealth, endure pain wirlwind arcing slice gg 4 thief down XD.
4 mesmer are much more scary. even 4 necros are more scary than 4 thief. Only thing less scary than 4 thief? 4 warriors.

I dont see the problem of making fast hands baseline. Just do it and put a bad minor trait at his place, like we have in defence and tactics.
What we gain? Any buff? we only get the chance of build diversity. Aniway many warriors in pvp will still chose Discipline for the chance to get brawler recovery (the best warrior cleanse actualy, cuz CI is a total fail).

Comparing ele/guardian/mesmer is not a way to see the reason of needing Fast Hands to be baseline, i mean those classes have minor traits that alone can obliterate an entire warrior line (see tactics and defence again), i dont see why you shouldnt want warrior at least have some decent build diversity.

Basandra Skye.4031:

DeWolfe.2174:

So when is a condi nerf coming? Seriously, was just hit with 2.5k confusion ticks from a one Mesmer skill. 4.6k Burns from one Engi skill. One skill did 18k worth of condition damage by the time it wore off. Give me flipping break dev’s, how is that supposed to be “fun” to play against? It’s been several weeks now and no balancing fixes for this.

Dev’s how about you come into WvW and play instead of ignoring the game modes balancing?

This is a “git gud” thread waiting to happen. It’s really all it is. Afterall, you’ll complain about 18k over time, but not about some skills doing that damage all at once?

The fact that there’s been no balancing patches is a pretty close admission to Anet that they LIKE where it’s at right now. Or still need to gather more information. Oh, and bring condi clears.

To avoid 18k burst damage, just bring togness and vitality, no need to waste any condi cleanse skill/trait for counter that.
Also condition should be damage over time not burst damage, the reason cleanser are countering bad condition, is that condi cleanse are not always on demand like togness is. In fact is useless to cleanse a condition like burning, the time you realize you have it and use the cleanse is at least one second, in that one second burning is gonna blow you.

And also because some condi cleanser are just bad designed (see Cleansing Ire) but that’s just another topic.

But the real issue, is that there’s not enough cleanser compared to the many condi that can be applied. You can see it as a result after cleanse against an engi, he will immediately start spamming condi again, so that makes cleanse skills underpowered if compared to a constant counter to berserker burst like togness and vitality.

for the topic opener:
go check my thread about defence trait line of warrior in the warrior class section subforum.
I already said all that has to been said about the most horrible trait line between all the classes of the game. I would save only one trait, defy pain, and only if it procs at 50%,, when condi burst cant finish you like it happens at 25%. Despite of that, all the defensive mechanics of warrior are horrible, making it the primary target in a group combat. Yes u understood it, you will be the first to go down and you will be the first target of the opposite team. So the only way to win is play Rampage and zerker, kill them in a few skill or get killed. Out of rampage, you will have to fight like a thief without stealth, get in the fight burst, and run away waiting for CDs.

Nerf Rampage and you can delete warrior already. But still i would be happy to see a rampage nerf, to force balance team to check warrior defence trait line a bit.

Off course i m not even paying any attention to tactics, by this time i think is irrecoverable. The saddest thing is that half of the trait line is based on the ressing, like they saying “just give up fighting warrior, you are a ressing servant for the other decent classes” XD XD XD. And what happens if even in this, mesmers and guardians can ress even better than you my little warrior XD XD XD. And that with only one trait they obliterate your entire tactic line XD XD. I’ll give you just one little example for the fun:

GUARDIAN ADEPT MAJOR TRAIT:
Protective Reviver: Activate a shield of absorption when you begin reviving an ally. Upon successful revival, you and ally each gain aegis, protection and regeneration.

Compared to the 3 Warrior tactics minor traits:
1) Gain extra toughness per level while reviving.
In this Case guardian would say “who need a 5% damage reduction while reviving when i can reflect any ranged attacks and push back any melee attack? pitifull warrior tanky wannabe”

2) Grant might to nearby allies when you successfully revive someone
In this case guardian would say “oh nice you gived might on reviving, but you know with my 33% protection damage reduction your might is kinda ridicoulous? and dont let me start with the others boons i gived him… just to know little warry why you give them only one boon? And why not give the boon to yourself too after all your try hard to ress? are you so unselfish? It gives you honor, but useless…”

3) Might applied by you also grants healing power:
Guardian would say “didnt you read i already gived regeneration protection and aegis? stop trying little warry… ok ok you are strong, tell me then how much healing power? 10 healing power?? are you that generous, or you just trolling me man really stop it”

And on top of that: guardian can even chose to be a support for the downed or not by chosing this trait line, cuz his trait is a major one!!! Warrior has to resign himself on beeing a ress bot i guess by chosing this line, cuz really seems like if someone chose tactic is because he like to ress, 3 of the traits are for ressing!!!! With absolutely no choice.

I could go on with every single trait comparison on with other classes trait and show how ridicoulous warrior traits are, but i give up. It’s so evident by just reading them after reading other classes one.

After reading this post, it reminds me some calculation i made on eviscerate dmg output.
It happened after a ranked match i made, where a noob ele who doesnt know anithing of how warrior work told me i was a noob cuz i was using signet of might instead of signet of doliak. Well, in this meta i can say 180 power is much more better than 180 togness, and 6s unblockable on a 25 cd is waaaay better than 10s stability on 60cd.
The main reason the passive buff of signet of might is better, is that togness is not providing enough damage mitigation to compensate the lose of power. Against a berserker, you will be hit a little harder, but you will hit much more harder: you can go 2 warrior berserker autoattack each other, the one with signet of might will win over the one with doliak signet (considering they have the same trait builds and the same utilities remaining). I did several tryes, warrior with signet of might always win, the only time it gets close (but still might signet wins) is when having an high health pool.

To speak poorly, rousing resilence wich gives 1k togness when break out of a stun, is not even remotely close to the damage reduction protection gives, and not even close to the adept mesmer trait 3% less damage for each illusion you have. To be fair, even if rousing resilence would give 2k togness, protection would still be better^^