Guild Wars 2

Size is important (don’t believe those girl who say no).

And DBL have major layout issue ! Like the useless tower… Yes tower are completly useless on DBL…. Except PPT (lot of people don’t care about PPT) there is no change if you control the tower or not…. Ennemy can take it, this change nothing to the futur fight…

DBL need to be completly review… Tower need to be moved, keep and tower need to be smaller and less maze… Wall need to be lower to be able to do something against proxy cata and being able at least to throw siege disabler.

ABL have none of those issue, ABL work fine to push players to fight each other for structures.

Yes ABL is old, yes lot of people (including me) wanted a new map, just to refresh the game. But DBL is a big fail…. It’s EOTM and not WvW…

Bandini.6185:

Besides, in order to prevent excessive karmatrain, I think capturing a T0 objective should reward no points.

Agree with that. Defense point but no capture point for T0.

all source mean all the ppt source probably…

Off peak time WILL matter ! But less…
I think this is one thing they have to :
– make a poll
– try for at least 1 month and then another poll.

Thing such like this have to be tested in real MU to see how it work.
You can’t imagine everything on the paper, you have to test.

I’m ok with Anet testing stuff and remove them if it’s fail. As long as they don’t make thing and are not able to go back (like stupid guild upgrade).

Alpine is designed to concentrate the fight around the keep / tower… If you spread more the players then you will have the same issue that we have on DBL > map too big, people avoid each other…
ABL is fine… The only issue for me on this map is the south east tower… The only value of this tower is to build the watch tower guild upgrade to see who move to hills…
But except that this tower is useless for the attacker. Unlike the 3 others who can be used to attack the keep.

And the map layout make that now on ABL the watch tower upgrade is very usefull on all tower. Before on DBL this upgrade was useless… Just allow us to avoid to place a scout… But on ABL those tower cover path to the keep (at least some path).

And what about the night capper server ?
Actually I’m on Piken and we face Desolation.
Every night they take 10k+ point advance… During the day / prime the PPT is fine, sometime we are first, sometime the other server, other time is deso…
But all the night Deso take 10k+ point.
We know after 2 days that it’s just impossible to win that MU, they will crush us, just because they have a big zerg at night… This just give me 1 idea… Stop playing for the full week and wait the next MU, because it’s just so boring to wake up and see that the other server have take is 10k+ point again…

Interesting change.
I like the fact that upgraded structures give more PPT ! Finally ! Same for the reward.
The victory point system seem good, we have to see that in action in beta test.
Same for multiplier at off peak time. And I play more at off peak during day.
But it’s really annoying to see that score is close for every team during day / prime.. And the night one of the team can make 10k+ point over the other…
Good to see the PPK more involved in the score, but WvW is about protecting your territory, PPT should stay a good part for the score.

A good thing should be to have a good wiki page with all accurate information to how the score is calculated… Sentry take / kill… Doly delivery / kill…

But with the T3 structures giving more PPT, ennemy will try to not allow you to upgrade your structures, then maybe the reinforced wall / gate should be at T1, and canon / oil at T2 ? Because it’s very long to have the T2 and paper gate / wall are really easy to destroy.
Another issue with that is the 2 north tower on ABL. There is only 1 doly for those tower, and the path is very long. Don’t know if this is intended… But finaly this give a malus to the home team…

Other point, as supply camp will be more important (with doly delivery) maybe supply camp should be easier to upgrade (less doly needed / level). It’s crazy the difficulty we have to upgrade camp when we compare that with before HoT upgrade system.

Another point about supply camp on ABL :
– Before HoT the doly with the shortest path will not respawn immediatly after they successfully deliver supply at keep / tower.
– Now with HoT doly respawn immediatly after the delivery was successful.

This mean that south west camp will deliver way much more doly to bay that north west camp. This give a big advantage for the attacking team because it’s easier for them to hold that camp… North west camp have a very long path to bay.

Other point, supply camp guild upgrade should be very very less expansive !
Like double supply for the doly. Before it was what ? 25 silver ? 50 maybe I don’t remember and it was the first upgrade started on each camp. Now the guild upgrade slot for the same upgrade is 3+ gold…. Seriously ? And you have to claim your camp for 30min…
The new upgrade system is far more expensive that before… I don’t know if this is “working as intented”.
Upgrade like Iron Guard or Chill fog should have “supply camp” version who are really less expensive to help to hold those camp.

Hope someone will listen to my concern

Host server are full to spread population to low server…
It’s a good thing !
You want to play with your friend ? Just transfer to some open server with all your friends then…
Stop stacking on top server, or leech on top server…

6 BL ? Continu to link more server for that and being able to queue those maps…

Daggos Skelito.2910:

3 months of DBL would be a bad thing for some. Can someone please explain the importants of home BL’s. Why would 2 ABL and 1 DBL not tied to a server be bad??

Hum because some love the Home BL concept ?
Control “our” map, be “at home”….

Yes for DBL lover it’s quite difficult to understand… Because that map feel more like hell and not home… But on ABL you have that “home” feeling… And ennemy are real invaders…

About the 3 month I think this is because there is no automatic rotation available at the moment. Once the automatic rotation will be ready they will rotate the map more often.

Josh XT.6053:

Yes, numbers did start rising with the April 19th patch, but it wasn’t because they improved DBL at all, it was because everyone heard “Alpine returning SOON™” from the devs

Including me… I was back because they have started to make change (stab, DBL layout) but most of all because ABL will be back soon…

Even with the patch we always have 100+ queue on EB…. Now we have less queue on EB, often more queue on BL that on EB… People spread more now with ABL that with DBL
And stop QQ about DBL or ABL…. Anet will rotate BOTH map !
You QQ because now we have ABL… But don’t worry, I will probably stop playing, or at least playing less and less time when DBL will be back… Now it’s your turn to not be happy… I didn’t play for month because of DBL, you can do the same when ABL is here..

If Anet revert the BL to Alpine it’s because DBL was such a disaster….
They have probably metrics showing the big fail this map was…
ABL is back, and we see more fight and more players ingame. EB queue is smaller, sometimes no queue at all on EB and queue on BL.
Bad thing is that we get the HoT stuff with auto upgrade and guild upgrade…. But at least the map was revert.

2 short answers :
– actual build give a lot more diversity
– actual build cost a lot of gold and force players to do some pve, and maybe allow anet to sell some gems.

The title is probably wrong, it’s not megaserver, but less team, more map, and longer MU.
There is no map opening when there is queue, all map are unique. But you have less team and more map at 1 time.
Map are inter connected (because GW2 engine can’t support one unique big map), then you can fully control 1 map and push to another.
This make that if you control completly your map you will have nothing to do on that map, except maybe building the structures (auto upgrade should not be part of this kind of game). Then I speak about PVE to give something to do on those map, and to need players to be on those map to hold stuff.

This will make a good territory war. But tower and keep must have strategic use, not like on DBL, and we probably need tower or outpost controling the passage to the other map. Or ennemy will be able to go to the core of your zone.

Honnestly this can be a good way to merge both PvE and PvP with safe are near the start location (no PvP) and mid safe area on secured territory. With high reward in high risk zone.

But as I say before this is a completly other game… With GW2 engine, but another game… So much work to do… And the dev can’t be sure how the community will accept the game like this.

And about balance, if you make only 3 team, if you have to lock the team with the most important population, and give good bonus to the team with the less people. It’s probably easier to balance that the actual server system.
But then people will complain that they can’t join their friends because one team is full…

Then you can do something like this (territory war)but smaller and centered around guilds alliance… And make guild fight other guild for 2/3 weeks…

Honestly there is a lot of thing that you can do with the GW2 engine and WvW… You can see the game differently without PPT and useless claim or territory control…

For the fun it can be be interesting to speak about that, but I seriously doubt that Anet will just try to think about something like this. What we are speaking here is more about CU WvW play style.

Hardened gate is how the gate should work since the begining….
And hardened siege bah… Canon and oil are a death trap for the user if you have enough caster with you…
But yes, the HoT stuff make the keep on ABL far harder to take…. Hills good defended is close to impossible to take now ! It was hard before, now it’s close to impossible…

As scout I like that, but shield gen are really over powered and should never be added.

Problem is that for EU we have 6 tiers, this make 24 maps…
Because I think that with the recent server merge most of the map are queued on every server, then you need place to allow the actual population to actually play the game.
And with the idea of multiple map connected together you will only have fight at the border, not everywhere…. You can make pve event to make players play those map but the majority want pvp, not pve….

Now just imagine that Anet need to make those maps…. They need 1 years to make 1 map…. Or less with HoT, but HoT was an expansion and had not so much map…

Now you can use less map and make different “campagn”, and give players the ability to choose where to play… Then you need less maps… But at least 3 safe zone map, 1 for each team… 3 map / faction as “home” and 1 central map…. This make already 13 maps…

And now with that you can start your territory war… Giving bonus / malus if you control territory close or far from your “spawn map” to not make 1 side overrun the others…

Honestly for me this could be interesting, but with more complex game core mechanics… Guild reward for holding / claiming stuff… Some reward when your team control territory, etc..

Probably need to lock each faction depending on population to allow more population balance…

But don’t dream, making so much maps, working on new mechanics, changing the community (remove server, keep only few factions, problem with national server, …) will totally change the game… And need too much money and work…

love the nc… nothing more to say…

I don’t think that 1 map can work with the GW2 engine…
But multiple connected map can work fine.
The hard thing is to not have everyone one front line and then have big queue…
Then you need multiple “contact” zone to spread players, and you need some pve thing to allow players to have something to do on more “safe” map. This will give something to do to the pve players, and allow more pvp players to wait in queue for some map.
But the core mechanics need to be more complex… Keep need to be harder to take, take more time to be build, need more ressources to be build, etc.
And guild need to earn something at claiming and defending something (ressources, gold, …).

Tbh this spot is easy to defend IF you have at least 3/5 players inside using immediatly siege. Then it’s probably wanted by the dev.

it was always like this. Inner WG was never upgrade, even before HoT.
As the dev just bring back ABL without any major change I understand that this gate upgrade have not changed.
But I don’t know if this was always a “bug” or if it was “work as expected”.
Just as now we have 2 upgrade for gate, maybe this gate be upgraded too.. At least 1 time.

The inner water gate at Garri stay as “normal” gate even if the keep is T3.
This was always like this, maybe because the water gate is hard to attack if they are defender I don’t know.
But now that we have fortified gate, can we have at least that this gate go to reinforced gate ? Or should we stay with normal gate even on T3 ?

@Fog : recycling some PvE map for something like this can be a good idea yeah.

I understand your idea, and it’s really good on my opinion.
For what I understand you think about multiple map connected together.
Each faction control some of those map and fight the other faction to take control of other map.
Map have pve event or pve mobs who protect the area if no players are online, maybe some pve event to have action on “secure” place and force players to spread on map that are not on the frontline. Maybe this could be fun for the pve guys with some tower defense like event where mobs can attack unprotected keep or supply line. This could merge both community pve and pvp.

Then we can have multiple map to spread players, and allow the system to work without having everyone on the same map.
Probably the supply line for keep should be more complex (more ressources), guild should gain some benefit to claim something (gold, ressources, …). Keep should be longer to take with more “capture point”. Keep should be longer to build, etc…
This with a permanent match up or at least very long campaign.

But this is more like teso or CU in the GW2 environnement. This can be great, but I doubt that Anet have enough ressources and money to completly change how WvW work… This mean the creation of a lot of new map… And a lot of mechanic to develop.

I understand what you ask, but this is not GW2… Maybe CU….
But just imagine the work to do to have that…

Just stop to answer to @sparc… it’s a troll… Nothing more…

Yes with HoT we had a lot of LOS change.
ABL was not designed with those change in mind.

They just need to adapt those thing.

Now that we have some dev who listen about WvW concern they will probably fix that. Continu to report issue and give the time to work on all those thing.

You can thx anet for killing small guild…
But on the map when a very small guild claim a keep and refuse to unclaim to allow bigger guild to apply bonus then you have an issue…
The guild can even uncheck the box to not allow using the guild upgrade…

On useless tower from DBL this is not an issue… But on the north tower on ABL or on the keep this is a big issue for all the server !

But on my opinion the first problem is not that the small guild want to play the game… The problem is that anet killed the small guild and if you don’t have at least 50 people in your guild spending tons on gold you can’t get back what you had before HoT !
Anet should never remove what we had before… I don’t care about that stupid guild hall, I don’t care about pve stuff inside… I just want to be able to help my server with my small family guild… Claiming stuff and applying bonus… But now this is impossible… Thx AneT…

All the guild upgrade system should be completly removed and bring back to the old way… But anet can’t do that… Too many people have loose tons of gold to build that “thing”.

Floriane.3504:

don’t like the return of the Alpine BLs, so many zergs making it harder for smaller groups to get around and take objectives.

Oh, now people defend structures… Yes it was so much better on DBL when no one come to defend those useless tower…

X T D.6458:

-Alpine encourages blobbing, blobbing never occurred on dbl,

There was just not enough people on DBL to blob… And the recent prime time where people where forced to play on DBL because we had 80+ queue on EB you had big blob… Because no one want to run back for 5min if he is killed… Then people regroup..

X T D.6458:

-Dbl didn’t cause anyone to leave, I hate alpine I’m done with wvw, it caused people to leave wvw before hot.

I leave because of DBL and HoT.. And many people do like me…
I have try DBL for more that 1 month, playing every day.. But this map is bs… No one play on that map, no one want to defend something because you have to run for hours… The last patch made the map playable, but clearly not enjoyable…

X T D.6458:

-Anet catered to the vocal minority who doesn’t represent the entire population who wanted alpine back. We want dbl back because we represent the actual majority of the population.

For what I know Anet have made some poll… I didn’t notice that poll… But apparently the majority of people voting wanted ABL back… And remember that Anet say that both map will rotate ! The main issue is that they have waited so long to finally started to rotate map !

X T D.6458:

-Dbl navigation is easy if you force yourself to play on it. Alpine is to boring and simple terrain that makes it to easy to move around.

Force yoursel…. It’s exactly that with DBL ! You have to force yourself ton play on this map…. Sorry but this is a game… I want fun, I don’t want to force myself to play on bad designed map.

X T D.6458:

-Dbl always empty, I don’t like alpine because to many enemies running around.

I see lot of people on ABL, and recently we had more on DBL because people wanted to test the new change.
But at least ABL don’t need at least 20+ people / side to make the map playable…. You can play it with less people because the map is far smaller and easier to travel.

Lol, changing citadel…. Are you crazy ?
Citadel is like a city ! A real city ! Not only a small outpost on a weird map….

And nc is at north, it’s a good thing ! Why would you bring that camp further to the ennemy ?

ABL is NOT DBL ! Stop asking to destroy that map to be like that bs who is DBL.

This is a exploit ok. And should be fixed ok.
But honestly, this just allow the home team to take back is tower when they are pushed into their spawn… It’s not like you can place exploit treb to attack the keeps or the south tower…
And this will not block offensive team to take those tower…
This just allow to the home team to take back is north tower… And if ennemy zerg is not here to fight…

It’s not an emergency… It’s need to be done, but it’s not an emergency.

TheGrimm.5624:

Sich.7103:

Because BL with 3 side will fail… They have try this with DBL… Remember that the side keep WP only work for 1 team at the begining.
I want a home border, where my team can control all the map and feel like home… Not a 3 side map… I hate EB for that !

Sich, I was thinking about you when I was trying to get around the home BL bit and find a solution for it. I admit I was watching for others about the Home BL but you are the only (so far) that I saw consistently in threads about wanting an individual home BL. Still don’t have an answer there yet. So to you, whats the difference in defending your third versus a full borderland that you call home?

Because if ennemy control keep on your map then you are invaded… You feel attacked… Stuck in a small part of the map… Not being able to control your world…
I’m not the only one like this… As I say, if the 3 side map where asked by a big part of the community, then the automatic WP to your side keep should be accepted by a big part of the community… But no one finally played like this… Everyone try to control his own BL and don’t try to control his own keep on each BL…

Anet try to force us to play like this but players don’t wanted that…

and people don’t want that…. they never play like this even on DBL with the immediat WP at T0 for your team… Most people want a home map, not 4 EB

camp should not be impossible to take alone (at least not upgraded), but at least it should not be so easy and so fast.

if you want that player pay something just bring back the old upgrade system he was fine ! The new one is bs…
And yes camp where balanced before, but with the power creep now it’s just a joke…

Just a small message about supply camp.
With all the actual output damage the supply camp are very very very easy to flip even alone… Most of the time with a zerk build you can take a camp before the sword pop, or just after…
To have fight defender should have time to come back and defend.
It should be easy to take undefended camp, but not that fast… Even the few T2/T3 camp that I have see can be taken very fast and without any issue (it’s a little more complicated on ABL with scout and the need to kill all guard).

If you add the fact that now is close to impossible to upgrade camp because you need too much dolly delivery and we have a big issue…

Upgraded camp are very important to help defender to hold them against small roamer team (1 to 3). This give more fight for everyone because at off peak time you don’t have enough people to attack defended keep.

Supply camp should have iron guard immediatly (or reduce the time needed to unlock that upgrade and reduce the cost to build that upgrade for camp !) and dolly needed should be reduced a lot, like 5 / 10 / 20. Best of all, bring back the old way to upgrade the supply camp. Because I understand that tower and keep need supply to upgrade, but as supply camp produce is own supply there is no link between dolly delivered and upgrading the camp.

I know that we will probably see no change at all about that, but as scout / defender I think we need some improvement on supply camp with the damage output we know now and the new upgrade system.

Shinon.4513:

What I like about the Desert Borderlands:

• Towers have two entrances and Keeps have many routes to the inner. This makes it much harder to cut off the supply for attackers and prevent any defence.

UC have only 1 path to go at inner, this make it very very difficult for defenders to come back.
And on ABL every keep have at least 2 entrance for inner.
But on ABL tower have only 1 entrance, that bad yes. But this is probably difficult to make for the 2 north tower.

Shinon.4513:

• Cannons and Oil are build more strategical, making them valuable defences. For towers there are even two of them, instead of only one each

Canon on DBL are death trap… And if you are fear you will just fall in the ennemy zerg…

Shinon.4513:

• Keeps need at least two series of catapults to be opened. Only exception I know is the north of the Rampart. A small advantage for the Home Team

Yes that a good thing, but it’s not some advantage to be able to do that at rampart

Shinon.4513:

• No “save” spots to build catapults or trebuchets, that are very hard to destroy, e.g. in keeps or towers or on unreachable cliffs

hum… In the stairs at south UC if ennemy place balista first.. In the south camp at UC with treb… North UC you can place a cata that you can’t counter…
I did not defend too much palace, but before the map change you have that issue with north outer wall and south inner wall…

Shinon.4513:

• Every keep, tower and monument is different, so some strategies work better for some objects than others
• Many possibilities to attack and defend, also some strategies are more common

different skin, but tower and keep are not copy / paste on ABL… Same texture yes, but not the same shape..

Shinon.4513:

• Larger structures with more room to fight

Bay is much bigger… But flat or water… And you can have some place to fight insde the outer wall at hills.

Shinon.4513:

• Walls feel better for defenders

Yes… Too high, you can’t hit proxy cata with ac, or you have to place ac in ennemy aoe… You can’t use siege disabler because you are too far from the ennemy siege.

Shinon.4513:

• The Oasis Event. I enjoyed some of the most exciting fights there

Don’t bring that kitten back ! This event is a big piece of kitten ! PVE event should not give so much advantage to one team !
At least quaggan was not OP and was easy to counter… But the best thing is no pve event at all.

Shinon.4513:

• The landscape is more exciting, so I don’t realize any longer ways, if there are any

Yeah… desert desert and desert… Feel like hell…

Shinon.4513:

• High flexibility. When you can’t take the fight for one object, there are always enough options nearby. So your attacks can become less predictable

You have multiple spot to attack on ABL, but all scout know all those spot then they are prepared for that. And keep should give advantage to defender with clear LOS around the keep… Not be surrounded with cliff and object that block your view or defense (UC / Palace).

Shinon.4513:

• +40% movement speed from shrines

As ABL is smaller you don’t need that… Just don’t make a huge map for home border and you don’t need that…

Shinon.4513:

• The Citadel feels more compact but modern

Citadel on ABL is a city… On DBL the spawn is just some outpost..
Again ABL feel like home, as DBL is just some weird territory and no one know what you are doing here…

And look about the supply camp…. On ABL you have the nc who is a small town, the sawmill, the quarry, the fishing camp.. Just vale have no real purpose… Even south camp have a mill…
On DBL the supply camp are just place in the middle of the map… We don’t even know what they do here… No element to understand why there is some production here…

TheGrimm.5624:

Sich.7103:

And eotm is a 3 way map, DBL and ABL are not !

What prevents them from becoming 3 sided maps and why is that bad? EB draws more people over time. A big part of that is the 3 sided structure that doesn’t greatly favor one side.

Because BL with 3 side will fail… They have try this with DBL… Remember that the side keep WP only work for 1 team at the begining.
I want a home border, where my team can control all the map and feel like home… Not a 3 side map… I hate EB for that !

I have defended hills for hours and hours…. If you defend and your zerg answer to the scout call then the ABL can be defended !
And don’t forget that now we have fortified gate who help a lot to hold ennemy back enough time to reinforcement to join.

DBL is a big fail, but map is not the only issue.
They have add a lot of bs on WvW !
Guild upgrade, auto upgrade, too much condi, cc, too much damage, WP change…

The last change just try to come back… To be good WvW should come back before the stab nerf… Without the condi and power burst… Without auto upgrade, without grind wall for guild upgrade, without pve stuff to interact with WvW (chill fog, airship, shrine, ..).

And when you add all those thing together you really hurt WvW…. I have completly stop playing 1 monther after HoT was out… And I’m only back since 3 weeks when I have heard that some change will come…

Finally those change are just coming back in past ! We are all happy by those change, but Anet at the first time should just not do that kitten… DBL, stab nerf, map and keep like maze…

DBL is a very bad map, with no tactical position, structure have no value at all except PPT…. The WP change just try to bring back a little value to the keep, but tower continu to be completly useless without any purpose…

No sorry but for me, as scout, and no KT man I hate DBL and I love ABL… DBL was just playable with the last change, but clearly not fun and enjoyable. Keep are too big, maze and really ugly.

Now stop complaining, we will have map rotation, then I will be able to play 3 month, and make a break for 3 month when DBL will be in place. I will just accept that and no point to QQ all the time.
ABL is a great map, stop asking for change on that map !

seriously, we have so much core issue with WvW and you speak about texture ?!?
We don’t care at all about those textures, we want a good map with fun, and ABL is fine for that ! Game mechanism is more important that shiny map…

+1 for log, but add blacklist feature then.
Each guild can blacklist some players or entire guild to use the activators. This will be more interesting that only public or guild.

Just add troll report…. And this can be good to report an entire guild…

now that we have ABL back we can see how much DBL is big ! There was so many people who say that DBL is the same size… Nope… DBL is huge, really too much !
ABL is just fine… No need to run for hours even without WP… Open field to fight… Keep who really look like keep and not fuc…ing maze…

Thx Anet to bring back ABL

Or just make a poll on the map to force unclaim objective.

Thx for all the recent change !
I have only 1 concern now it’s the upgrade system, for me the old one was far better.
But I know you will not come back on that.
But at least anet, can you try to do something about supply camp ? It’s really really hard now to upgrade those camp… And upgraded camp help a lot to defend and hold them… Before you could upgrade the camp even if no dolly go to the keep. And now you need so much dolly delivery ! At least reduce the number of dolly needed to upgrade the supply camp.

Xenesis.6389:

What they should have done from the beginning is made all maps like the ebg type

We don’t want 4 ebg map !
They have try this with DBL (remember, wp only available for 1 team) and it was a big fail !
We want Home BL ! Yes, something that is our home, to our team. If we want 3 side fight we go to EBG. But don’t destroy the Home BL idea, this is why lot of people fight on those map.

naphack.9346:

The issue I have with DBL is that the side keeps are not like fortresses at all. They are nothing like a keep, they are modern nuclear bunkers. Instead of being a tall, imposing structure, on strategically important positions that allow whomever controls them to exert influence and keep watch on the surrounding area, they are tucked away in a remote corner, with lots of obstacles around them that make it really hard to get a clear view on the surrounding area.
In the current map design, they simply serve no purpose whatsoever.

it’s exactly that…. New WP system change a little that issue… But what you say is true.