Guild Wars 2

yep, WP at T3, and bring back the old upgrade system, just without cost… And it will be fine…

I did not say that this is a good thing. I just say that Anet want to force us to play like this.

Anet want to break the 1 colored BL and force us to play on the 3 BL. Then each team should control 1 keep on each BL. It’s time to regroup inside 1 community guild to be able to speak accross map….

The other way is just to ignore all that kitten… Ignore the guild upgrade, ignore the scribe, ignore the guild level…
And just play…. I do not want to grind and spend hundred of gold to unlock something that I had before HoT !!
I do not even try to do some upgrade on my small family guild…

apparently the WP are at T0, but didn’t work for no one…..

This just kill the Home BL concept… Where you can controll all your home map…. Now we just have 4 EB…. I can’t understand why give WP to only 1 team, and directly at T0……
Sorry, probably to dumb to understand…

At least 1 good thing, the 2 south doly for the keep are working now.

they have move the WP to the keep yes…. but only for 1 team…….. and at T0 ?
Seriously ? This is completly stupid…. I just don’t understand how they can have think about that….
We asked the WP in the side keep but for all team !!! at T3 !!
Not those stupid WP for 1 team at T0…..

How is this possible ?

then we are not allowed to do KT on the map, we are not allowed to search for fights… Roamer don’t play anymore because you need at least 5 people to do something.
Scout don’t play anymore because they have nothing to do and will not loose time to defend useless structures with no one tactical advantage…
Who will remain on the map ? You and your 2 friends ?

Bring back wp on side keep, give us a reason to hold the tower… Actually when you control the north tower this don’t even block the north camp dolly to rampart…. Before when you hold the north tower the dolly to garri will be killed in front of the tower…
And from those tower you can treb garri… Now what the point about those tower except the PPT ? Nothing, really nothing…

Before holding the side keep will help you to earn the WP… And then go faster to defend the south. Before when scout where standing in our keep, to build those WP, or to defend those WP they run to the south camp to upgrade the keep. This give fight for the roamers.
Now except PPT, what is the advantage to hold side keep ? None… Really none…

Before you had to control at least briar to protect bay, or lake to have eyes on ennemy move. Now this is useless… Yeah you can deny the auto WP at T0…. But once ennemy take the tower back they have the WP…

Before you try to hold the south camp, because dolly where going to the tower AND to the keep…. But now the dolly from south camp don’t go to side keep…

Holding the south east and south west camp was usefull to upgrade the keep. Now the dolly are bugged, you can eventually escort the dolly for UC, with a lot of heal he can go through…

It’s all those issue who remove the fight… You can add the auto upgrade who remove the need or the “ownership”. If ennemy attack, don’t loose too much time to run back when you die… Just regroup and take something else… We go later to take the stuff back… We don’t have WP on the side keep, tower are useless, rampart have WP at T0… And all those thing have exactly the same PPT at T0 or T3…

It’s all the core of the map and the game mechanic who have broken WvW…

Now yeah you can have some fun fight at prime time, but outside that it’s boring like hell… I was used to play for hours outside prime time… Now I don’t play at all…. I just join sometimes at prime to make some fight with the blue tag but nothing more…

well, idk… Probably on some server… To be honest we don’t see guys like that on Piken… As we don’t see too much supply troll or upgrade troll.. But I really think we have to find something to help guild upgrading inside WvW and allow small guild to get the wvw upgrade without farming pve and gold.
And we have to find something to reward holding stuff more that taking stuff…

I’m open to all idea about that.

no point to make several guild if you need days and days to get all the upgrade…
And if those rewards are only for the guild and can’t be sell or used by players…
And with the auto unclaim you need to have people on the map to earn the reward.

Yeah, small guild should be able to claim in WvW, and then claiming stuff should help to upgrade the hall… You should be able to upgrade your guild (with time) just at playing WvW…. And those claiming bonus is a way for that.
As during off peak time there is a lot of small roaming / defensive team this can help those guild.
And I speak about guild because how do you want to give ressources / bonus to all players on the server ? Wich player should receive something ? Those who only log in for the daily ? Those who run dolly / build defensive siege but take close to nothing ? Those who only KT with a map blob ?

I’m was to be a solo players, but I was in the community guild… And now with HoT and the multiple guild chanel I’m in a defensive scout team. You can always find a guild to join.

The problem is to give the ability to all guild to build there guild hall / upgrade and to be able to claim something in the game without those pve farming stuff and all that gold…

your server earn nothing with ppt…. oh great, you win the MU… and then ? Oh you can get some bonus chest… I think much about ressources / gold reward directly in the guild bank… Or another currency to upgrade your guild hall to be able to upgrade your guild…
Actually you need to farm pve to upgrade WvW stuff….

Just remove reward for taking ; defending.
And give reward to hold to the guild who claim. Reward increase during time, and no reward for 30min. And auto unclaim after few times (2H ? more ?) if no one from this guild go inside the structure and speak to some npc.
At least it’s the main idea.

This map is probably made for each team controlling 1 keep on each map.
If you play like this you have less distance to travel and have probably more activity.

But maybe if the south doly could work this could help to play like this….. If Anet just patch the game…

Oh and please, this central event must be removed, I hate this one… You are forced to do it to protect your structures. We don’t do that event because it’s fun, or because it give you some fair advantage. No, when we do it (I see multiple times now where the event is not do at all) it’s just to protect ourself…

Nothing more boring to KT the map more easly because you have successfully killed dino…

PopeUrban.2578:

All that loot should come from owning rather than taking objectives.

That is a very good point. Something like if your guild claim something you will earn ressources over time for the guild bank.
Maybe need to “refresh” your claim every 3/4H. If one guild want to claim something she had to defend it and manage it.

Your math are wrong, because no one will take 2H to repair all the gate…. Free T3 mean that you don’t care about, and if ennemy use the canon it’s more easier to just loose the keep, and then take it back… less job, more rewards…

keep should be hard to take IF defended… If no one is inside there is no reason that you can’t take it with 3 people.

yes but if you have 5% people playing at off peak time, then you have more with 300 people on the server that if you have only 50 people on the server….
And we had very few fight against SFR… With the ranking system you fight against same sized team…

funassistant.6589:

The entirety of the map was casualised.

it’s exactly that.

Jayne.9251:

People stacked to the top servers not because of the fights, per se, but because more numbers = easier stomp.

I don’t agree with that….
More people on server is more people at off peak time…
What the point to play when there is no one on the map except on prime time ?
Playing should be fine, not a full time work for the 3 players online at once at off peak time.

Even on Piken, full server, we have difficulty to gather people to make something during the morning….

I understand people who want to find another player… Friendly or ennemy… Don’t forget that we are not all playing at prime time for 2H… 3 times / week…

And to come back to the main topic.
I’m ok with guild alliance. PUG players can join actual community guild. Or special guild can be made to accept those players.

The problem with that system is how to allow new players to join the guild…
Public forum to advertise ? What should do the solo players or solo guild before they can ally ? Joigning some eotm MU with automatic team base on active players ?

And this system need some ranking system. Like the actual server, but for alliance.
Then each alliance can move in the ladder and figth against other team with the same “power”.

add the issue with the south doly

I see so many hacker, I had one in my friend list… Each week his team was against us we see him going on our map, taking stuff by WP inside keep and killing lord from underground… This guys was reported hundred time, but we see that guy again and again… He was reported from his own server… But nothing… Don’t tell me that anet was doing something about that…
And when someone build plenty siege everywhere (like rams), again and again you can tell that this guy is detroying the game.
And yes, I saw a lof of video of this troll, but generally anet don’t do anything about those guys…

I support to ban all troll…. Not to remove something that was interesting to play (at least for me).
It’s not because we have thief in real life that we remove money…. We catch those thief and send them in jail…
But anet never care about that, they never took the time to act against players who destroy the game. That’s te real issue.

@Coglin : it’s not because you was on a bad server with tons of troll that we have all sufer the same issue… On Piken we had some troll but not all the day… Even not all weeks..
And those players should be banned from WvW… Now all the community is punished because of those troll.

I have already say that this map and mechanics are fine for guild playing only at prime time and focusing on fight.
Btw this map is perfect for that.

You join, you don’t care about nothing, just searching the dot from ennemy on map… You run, you make your fight, and you continu.

Don’t need to care about defense, structures are useless. No need to check upgrade, all is automatic. No need for scouts, sentry tell you where the ennemy are and the lord can defend the keep the time you join the fight.

But for a lot of other people, playing at off peak time, that’s not the same story.

Yep, it’s time war now… Before you could just killed all the dolly and starve the keep, then no upgrade will happen during the attack.
Now that’s is over, Welcome to time war.

ArchonWing.9480:

I honestly think t3 gates AND auto upgrades seemed a bit overkill. I dunno.

The T3 gates are fine, but they are too easy to get….

Nice, excellent ! Exact the same on my side !

yeah, old map with new mechanic won’t help at all…

If it’s to the player to drive WvW why did they add so much automatic stuff ? And sentry who show ennemy on map ? They remove a lof of human interaction to add scripted AI…

if you remove treb behind gate there is no more solution to destroy ram….
Most safe AC spot can’t shoot directly on the gate…

2 ac on the wall in the good spot to shoot the shield generator, and 1 or 2 treb behind the gate…. And it will be ok probably.
I have manage to destroy some shield generator against 30+ group, but we where 4 to defend.
Alone it’s close to impossible to do something. Even with the ac…. They are useless when you have only 1.

And it’s ok to not be able to defend alone.

Yes I know the different path, I have use it a lot of time.
If I don’t like the map it’s not because I don’t know it or because I don’t take the time to learn
But yes, I agree, when you own the keep you have a lot of shortcut to make the run shorter. And the best is to control the keep and to take the shrine speed buff… Then ok, you can begin to do something.

The thing that hurt the most a lot of people is the lack of WP…. This make the south without any interest to try to defend… This map should be played with each team who hold is part of the map (like on reset). But to do that you need a lot more people that actually…. Really a lot more….
And what I loved on the old map is that your Home BL is your Home…. It’s your map…. You don’t have to share it with the other team…. But this map is not design for that.
If you try to control your keep on each map you will see that you need less time to go to fight.
But to be able to do that as I say before you need really really much more people…. Including at off peak time who is dead.
And to control your keep on each map you need those south dolly who don’t work !!
Because it’s very difficult to have supply inside the keep with only 1 supply camp in the ennemy territory…

yes that shield, this is what I have explain before… If the ennemy build shield you can’t destroy the ram fast enough. You have to use AC on wall to destroy the shield first (shield generator is not protected from the buble).
But this take too much time… And then you fortified gate will be open…

@Coglin : I’m on Piken, EU server… Full according Anet…
For me full server mean all map queued, at least at prime time. But that’s another problem. And yeah, for sure, no need to try to speak with you. You have your opinion and I have mine.

You speak about that video ? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vwt76dwYAQ
Or that map : http://i.imgur.com/FvoAThM.jpg

A lot of path use the teleport from rampart or the pad from palace…

Like spawn to rampart… Rampart to palace….

But don’t worry, continu to defend the new map and all the new game mechanics.
But I see EB with 50 man queue, and no queue on BL… And BL empty during the day…
Do you think that all those people just don’t want to learn the new map ? They don’t like the new map and / or the new mechanic.

If this new map was so incredible we should see more people playing in game. We should see queue on BL… But nop… We don’t see that…

coglin.1867:

They didn’t. Once you learn the routes, it takes the same time to run across the map. I believe the video comparison in another thread suggested the new and old maps are with in a few seconds of one another to run from end to end.

and now just try to use the same route, but without controling the keep…. Run from spawn to rampart…. Run from south east camp to palace without controling the shrine or the keep… Or much better, run from palace to the south east camp without the shrine… Because the shrine are really usefull from palace to the camp.

Run from spawn to palace without controlling rampart…

You say it’s need the same time, but only because you control Rampart or at least 1 shrine at palace… Don’t use those pve portal and tell me how much time you need…

The good thing with alliance is that you can choose your ally….
You know… Those supply troll…. Those one who made anet completly kill our supply and upgrade system… With guild alliance system you can just kick them out…
The 3 faction way, where you can’t choose your ally is a real issue…. And CU or ESO have the same issue…
And this remove a big part of diplomacy… (3 factions way).

A good guild alliance system could be interesting.

As you all say, the T3 give now a huge advantage for the defensive team.
This is a very good point.
But this advantage must be earned ! You have to work for that, this should not be free and automatic… This is not “fair” against the attack team…
And the WvW should be something made by human players, not automatic scripts.

Now it’s too easy… Just jump inside the keep, use all the sups to build siege, wait the auto upgrade and hold on ennemy zerg with 5 people…

But before bringing back the old system, please fix the bug with the south doly…

Arius.7031:

Kitiara.2706:

Well, technically I wouldnt just stand there. I was bouncing all over 1 map upgrading stuff. Preparing for prime time, getting it sieged up, ready for the fights. It was fun, it was building anticipation.

I respect your personal preference, but to most of us who did it, we only did it because we had to as no one else wanted to do it. It may be fun for you to sit there for 5-6 hours, watching for swords on all your objectives, constantly running in circles upgrading this or that… but to most people that wasn’t fun gameplay. It’s something most who did it were basically forced to do if we wanted to be competitive.

The problem is that the player who like this play style was the core team for the off peak time… Those player where here to fight against the ennemy roamer… And then give something to do for the roamer… And those people make the map alive…
Now without those people when the casual player join he just see an empty map… And he won’t do anything without a tag… This map have killed the core players… All the other won’t join if those core player are not here…
You need a minimum level of population doing something on the map, if you remove the “job” who was done by this core people, then those people don’t play… And then your map are dead….
You just have people at prime time for fight or KT…

coglin.1867:

The maps are equivalent size.

lol… Just lol… Just open your eyes… Your love for Anet and this new map is too strong.
This map is more bigger and it’s a real maze. And don’t talk to me about the shortcut. I know those path.

coglin.1867:

They added varying aspects to each keep as was overwhelmingly demanded.

What ? tell me ? Stupid pve stuff outside the keep who are impossible to hold, then if the ennemy siege the keep you will loose all the buff in 2min…
And yes, waouw, immunity in fire, kitten , this is awesome… Or yeah stupid wind who blow the ennemy from stupid cliff… You die more from the environement that from the other players…
Or what else, let me guess…. Keep so big that it’s a pain to defend ? With maze inside the keep….
Or wait, another beautifull thing… Remove the WP… Yes… That’s very good, I could just not imagine how this is beautifull…
What should we add ? Oh yes, the automatic WP on rampart at T0…. Or just how to don’t care to loose the keep because you just have to flip it back to recover the WP…

All those thing are amazing and increase all the fun I had as scout playing at off peak time inside the keep…

Just take hills… Defending hills you hold the high ground… You are not in middle of big hills and cliff… The keep was easy to navigate inside… Small, compact… That’s a good keep. Not that ugly underground thing or the other thing in middle of the clif… You don’t even know where the keep start…

coglin.1867:

They changed the upgrade system to prevent the excessive supply trolls, as was a very popularly demanded.

With this the problem are the troll !! Not the system, just ban the troll, hide upgrade ability behind mastery, problem solved… And most of the problem with that are from people who doing mistake… They want to help, but to affraid to ask and make mistake… Most of the time when you take time to explain why they have made a mistake they won’t start again, and will ask for the next time… To finaly manage alone to do the good thing… Destroying all the supply chain and the value of the supply just to prevent what ? 2 troll in the week (on Piken) ? Seriously ? Give tools to ban those people, problem solved.

coglin.1867:

They added an important event in the middle to draw all 3 sides into 3 way battles away from keeps.

You call that an important event ? What did you smoke ? Seriously ? This event is a true disaster…. First of all lag… Then during off peak time now you just have the ennemy zerg join the map when the event start… They rush the event to after that just KT all your map.. It’s too much powerfull, ridiculous and have nothing to do on a wvw map… This event is a fail, a big fail and must be removed… When this event start I just want to log out and uninstall the game… This is a bad joke, like the golem week…. A real bad joke…

coglin.1867:

They made it more difficult to turtle down and treb keeps from inside the safety of another keep, that was also strongly demanded to have done. Meaning you have to expose yourself more in order to attack and start a siege against another keep.

It was never possible to treb keep from another keep (or maybe bay from garri, but this was change). But yes you can treb keep from tower… This is why it was so important to defend your tower ! The keep where important because you had the WP inside, to give a big advantage to your team. But this advantage was earn with multiple hours of work from scout / roaming guy… Then you had to hold those tower to avoid the ennemy to treb you.. This give value to tower ! Now the tower are just useless… It’s change nothing if you control the tower or not…. Oh yes, it’s change the PPT…. great…
But the PPT should be the consequence not the main goal. You have more PPT because you defend your stuff, because your stuff have value (WP, tactical position). You should not have PPT because it’s the only thing who have value on the map…

coglin.1867:

All changes that satiated the overwhelming demands of the public here on the forums.

Before HoT I say on this forum that the automatic upgrade will kill the off peak time and the scout job… Close to 3 week after hot is out it’s seem to be true. And it’s not because you love those change that we see that in game. The BL are EMPTY ! No one care to defend, the BL is just a new KT because no one want to play on this map, and no one care to defend because all thing are automatic / free and useless !

I loved to play WvW as some RTS… Building stuff because it give you tactical advantage (WP inside the keep, cover from tower over keep). To upgrade the stuff you have to manage your ressources (supply).
Now the keep and the tower are useless, they have no value. Yeah except PPT. But as I say, PPT should be the consequence, not the only reason to hold stuff.
Before you can run to the supply camp in front of the ennemy zerg, and start upgrade to deny supply for the ennemy group. Now it’s over… Oh yes, you have the new upgrade who can destroy all supply in the camp… But this is another automatic thing… Before you needed human, players to do that, now it’s all scripted. And you can activate this upgrade from everywhere on the map, you don’t even need to walk to the camp…
Before you will defend your upgraded camp because you had the double supply for the doly, this was very important for your keep. Because the supply was the real blood for your map. Now who care to defend the south supply camp ? It’s too far, the doly to the keep don’t work (yes, bugged since the begining). And now the doly deliver the same supply at T0 or T3…. Then well, don’t care, the next doly will have the same supply that the one before we loose the camp… And upgrade don’t need supply, most of the time keep are full with supply because no one care to build siege…
Before it was a real challenge to siege and upgrade stuff. This need team work, people who anticipate. To protect your T3 + WP at prime time it was a work for all the day. To build slowly all the siege you need. Now you just wait to see the ennemy to start something. And if you loose it… Bah.. just take it back later… The keep have no value… Oh yes, the PPT value…. But the PPT is the same at T0 and T3… Then no one care…

Oh and the south camp… Before this camp deliver supply to the tower, and to the keep… This is over…. Another reason to don’t care about this camp… He only deliver supply to the south tower… But those tower are useless, they don’t protect your keep… They are to far from Rampart, then you have to walk a long time to join the fight.. This is not funny…. You just let the ennemy take your stuff and take it back later with your zerg..

This map is made for the prime time only guild, who just join the map to run in circle, searching some fight, playing for 1 or 2 hours and then log out. Casual or fight guild. But the map is not made for people slowly building their homeland during the day. This map killed the scout job, killed the roaming…. To make people protecting stuff against roamer you must have a reason to defend… But there is no more reason to defend… Then no one counter the roamer… Then the roamer have no fight… They only have PVE…

If you can’t understand all those thing then there is nothing I can do for you. It’s my opinion. You have another. And you have a big chance, Anet is with you not with me, and not with roamer or scout. I speak about real scout, who try to build something with teamwork, and patience and being a real part of the upgrade… Not people just siting in the tower waiting for the clock and using the overflowing supply inside the structures… Just sitting here waiting that all the automatic stuff run alone.

And don’t worry, I have already leave the game. This game is not the WvW I have loved. This is not a game that I want to play. I’m just here because I hope that Anet will change something. But I know anet, and I know that they will not do anything.

the problem with the troll are the troll…. not the system…. Give tools to ban the troll… Or make guild alliance, and make the game guild vs guild… Then if you have troll in your team you can just kick it out… The problem in the server mode is that you can’t choose your ally, and then you have troll….
The previous upgrade system was very good, maybe except the gold cost (and this one never disturb me)… No need to destroy everything because anet is unable to ban troll / hacker (yes because we speak about troll, but what about the hacker who where never ban ?)

the old map with the new mechanic will be the same problem…. It’s not only the map… It’s all around…

Rampart is very interesting to defend. The only keep that feel like a keep :p
But this blob have so many other way to attack you…
I have suffer the same attack on a tower, but the ennemy have build at least 2 ram out of range for the treb, and they use a shield generator who block a lot of my shoot… As I was alone they finaly get in.
But I really think that on this map attacking defended keep at the gate is just suicide…

just build the ram not to close the gate, treb can’t destroy all the ram…
Build less ram, but add shield generator, they can block treb…
The time the keep get contested with 4 sups ram the gate can be around 60%… If they have a shield generator you have to destroy it first, because you treb will not be able to destroy all the ram… Then you need a good ac spot to destroy that shield without being killed…
And once the shield is destroyed you have to run to your treb… You will be able to shoot 1 or 2 time and the gate will open…

No, it’s not possible to push back 30+ guy with only 1 defenser… You can slow them down yes, but not push them back… Unless they want to run back…

Most attack with ram are easy to counter with the new wall and gates, but there is so many other way to attack, and the keep / tower are so big…

If the ennemy zerg want to go inside they can… Yes you can slow them down but that’s all… If your friendly zerg don’t join you, the structure will be lost…
And I’m ok with that, we should not be able to block forever ennemy zerg with 2 players inside. But now we can earn time, and that’s interesting. And I want to see how this will work without the 3 states of wall on top of each other…
And you know that you can’t destroy proxy cata at north palace wall ? Same for south inner ?
Then with a good ennemy commander, they just build the cata at the good spot, and you can’t do anything else that watching the wall going down..

Don’t ask anet to reduce HP on wall and gate, they can listen to you… As they always choose the worst thing that players ask…

For now I totally stop playing GW2… I continu to watch the forum to see if Anet will do something… But for now GW2 is over for me….
I have never play on EB, it’s not now that I will start…
I hate so much thing on the new bl…. No WP, central event, free auto upgrade, bug, keep to big, tower without any tactical advantage, WP at T0… Guild upgrade hide behind farming, my small personnal guild useless now…

I can’t play with this… And I have play lot of hours… I have learn the map, the path, the shrine… I have try, seriously I have try…. But more time will not make me love this map and the new mechanics…. And more people will not change those mechanics that I hate…

WvW is finish for me, and as I only play WvW then GW2 is over…

I just hope they will do something, because I had fun playing at this game and defending my BL during off peak time…

I see some people speaking about troll supply or troll upgrade….
But I didn’t see that very often…. Yes we see it sometimes…. But not everytime….
The way to fight troll supply is not to remove the need of supply, but to ban those account ! At least from WvW… The real solution is that anet give tools to kick out from WvW those players…
Maybe remove server and make something like guild alliance… Then if someone is a spy or a troll you can kick this guy out… Or maybe anet should start to ban those player who are reported for that…

The supply troll was the problem, not the upgrade and supply system !

It’s like in real life… Oh kitten , this guy use a knife to kill someone… Ok, just remove all the knife from the world…

And most of the bad upgrade started that I have see, was from people who don’t know what they are doing…. Then someone else speak about giving the ability to start upgrade behind wvw ability… Like now with the guild upgrade (supply camp / tower / keep).
Then only people who want to do that will place point in this… And you need to play some hours in WvW to be able to do that….

I have spend many hours on my server to explain to new people how to manage upgrade, and that help a lot…

Yes we asked for solution against supply troll (not me but lot of people have), but they have kill all the system… This is not the good answer…

just lol….
Do you think that some pve puzzle jumping stuff will change anything ?
The auto upgrade, the lack of WP, the central event, south doly bugged, no tactical advantage to hold tower…
And what, when commander jump all non hot player just stand here and watch ?
Seriously, WvW have more trouble actually that allowing the glide thing…

yes, but this one was not funny… You needed player to start the event, and he only go for the spawn tower…. I hope we will see soon automatic NPC, going alone, for all structure on the map… And oh, please, add npc building siege inside keep, and using it…
Oh and other thing, just remove the ability for player to make something, just let them sit and watch npc running alone…