I don’t like eotm, but don’t remove this, a lot of player like it…
using bug and is the only way to go inside a keep ? Seriously ?
Learn how to play before saying something like that…
Or maybe being able to hit the wall from the bottom of the clif is “working as expected” ?
Yeah, I never go to PvE…. Really never…
Before I made some dungeon, but with the reward nerf there is no more any reason for me to go in PvE…
I want to be able to play the game without having to grind in PvE… Then the Proof of Heroic account bound are very good for me !
Anet have really to do something with the cata splash damage…
Here is a pic : http://hpics.li/8dd0a1b
It’s just completly stupid to be able to open the north inner wall at palace when placing cata at that spot…
This is the same kitten that we had at hills, the same with the cata spot at rampart where you can destroy both outer and inner wall…
Anything planned about that ?
Just don’t worry, they will add rotation… They just bring back ABL before the rotation system is readly. But DBL will not be removed….
Oh yes, full roll back before the stab change…. Remove all (really all) the HoT change…
And about the quaggans… Seriously, they where useless…. They didn’t change the MU… It’s not like the oasis event, or the banners…
Oddly that logic makes sense. Leveling is part of these games and having players insta-level every new specialty in seconds because they banked thousands of proofs is a bit strange.
They should remove tomes then….
as long as those thing are behind a big grind wall this will be a issue !
We need something less pay2win. Who involve players (like aura) and not pve stuff.
And those thing should be available for all guilds, not only the biggest.
And ofc, we should be able to unlock aura (that we had before !) and guild upgrade inside WvW ! I never play PVE, really never.. And I will not start to grind those kitten.
And I don’t care about stupid guild hall, I don’t care about decoration. I play only WvW… If at least we can take back all the aura that we had before HoT….
Expansion should not remove what we had before !
I didn’t play for the last 2.5 weeks of Alpine largely because I didn’t see any meaningful return on my efforts and didn’t feel like sinking more cash into defenses that offered no protection for me and little more than a bump in the road for my enemies.
And how many cash do you need to activate the guild upgrade ?
You need those upgrade if you want to be “competitive”… If you don’t apply them you loose a lot to help you defending.
You will probably be able to upgrade 4/5 keeps just with the cost of 1 emergency WP…
What a lot of people don’t understand is that Anet want to sell gems….
You want to be able to place those pay2win guild upgrade ? Then or you go to farm for hours, or you can use your credit card…
It’s only this ! In other way why should they add those powerfull pve thing ? Why should they place them behind huge (really huge) grind wall ?
WvW will be dead, the old map with the HoT kitten will be probably the same failure as the deserted borderland ! The failure is not only about the map, all other stuff around are very important too !
You will have your rotation map don’t worry…
It’s just the time they program this. But they will clearly not remove DBL.
The canon ? You die in 2 sec if you stay on that thing….
It’s not this in T1 on EU… I don’t see this…
We don’t have too much siege inside our keep, we don’t have any scout anymore…
Well, start with bring back the WP as they where before… It was asked here again and again…
After that you can maybe make some poll about the banner, the airstrike and other thing like this…
The next upgrade should decrease the cost for the scribe, I hope for the guild hall and the guild upgrade too..
How can it even be a waiting area?
I’m often using our BL as my “waiting zone” and I often click the “EB is ready” away as I’m in the middle of a fight.
When they started eotm you had queue every night on every map… Very long queue, sometimes 2H long…
Now it’s true we can’t imagine that… But it was a time, a long time ago, that we had a lot of people in WvW…. I was in T3 at this time, not even in T1.
They should really close at least 1/3 of the server (I speak for EU, don’t know other).
Only if teef wasn’t 1 shotted by accidental guard traps
I play always with my old support guard build.
And yesterday some thief try to kill me…. But he killed himself with retaliation…
I didn’t play for month, maybe there was some change in the game… But that was funny, at least for me… Poor thief…
To scout properly you need to build siege. But you need so much siege to defend every spot that you don’t siege at all…
And the keep are really annoying to scout.
You add non counterable spot, like nort outer wall and south inner wall at palace… I didn’t find atm counter spot to cata at north UC, wall at right from the door, cata on the hills at north east.
Then what the point to scout if you know that you can’t do anything ?
Actually (at least on my server in T1 in EU) there is no more any scout, no more siege (or just a very on rampart). If the zerg join we generally have the time to defend because the lord is so long to kill.
If the zerg don’t join, then at least no one loose money to siege something that the zerg don’t defend.
So what you’re saying is that when there are fourteen superior AC’s and four shield gens in a tower we’re trying to take, we should just sit under AC fire and PvDoor like good zerglings.
kitten , this is probably more siege that we have in all our map…
This is about small team play—mostly roaming, not scouting. I would also draw the line for small-team at 5 people. More than that seems more mid-scale since their capabilities change dramatically. For example, they’re unlikely to be seriously impeded by barricades.
I’ll be looking at the impact on scouting later.
Taking keep with 5 players is easy, but once the keep is defended by at least 2 or 3 people then is close to impossible to take.
You can use attack spot that defender can’t counter and then the defender can just sit and wait that the keep is open.
And about scouting, it’s dead, don’t worry about that.
Did roaming groups really attack towers on Alpine with the hope that people would come to defend them? Wasn’kitten more often, trying to ninja cap before anyone showed up?
As scout I pushed back a lot of attack from tower, even from keep.
And countless for supply camp.
Small scale fight go to 10 players for me, and 10 players can attack keep without any issue.
It’s not off topic, because if you have no one who defend there you are in PvE !
But I understand, you love to make PvE and PvD and then it’s not a issue for you if there is no one to fight.
Yeah, and you have no one to fight… Then you are doing PvD and PvE all the day… Waouw, exciting.
you are of topic, your post has no relevance towards the subject being small offensive initiative.
I’m exactly in the topic.
You speak about small scale fight.
But to have those fight you need defenders, or all you will do is only PvD and PvE….
HoT destroyed the defensive part, then the attacking part die because there is no more opponent in from on them.
And a lot of players don’t want to do only PvD or PvE, they want to fight real human…
People complain about roaming because this part of the game is dead.
Why it’s dead ?
Because before you had scout on the map who try to defend the camp, who where connected to upgrade stuff.
Now the scout are gone. I was scout, and for the few time I play I don’t want to defend or scout anything on this map.
Why the scout leaved ?
– Because the auto upgrade make that the scout can’t control anything. You are just here to assist some automatic stuf.
– Separating the upgrade from the supply made that there is no more any tactical decision between storing supply, sieging or starting upgrade.
– Upgraded supply camp was very helpful to defend them. Now you need 20 dolly just to have T1 !!! Just ridiculous.
– Guild hall and guild upgrade completly kill small havoc / scout guild
– Sentry now do the job for the scout and havoc squad, less communication on the map.
– Once you had the WP, you can WP from one side to other from the map to help. Now this is gone. And with the WP if you die defending vale or WC you can just WP back at your keep.
– New keep are too big, really ugly, difficulty to see what happen around. Keep should be build on top of hills with clear view around. UC is underground (WTF ?), and Palace is surrounded with tons of cliff… And North outer wall is undefendable, same for south inner wall.
– Too big keep need tons of siege to be able to build every counter siege required… And if you don’t see the attack fast enough, all your outer siege will be destroyed without being used…
– If you want to play like on ABL, you need to take 1 keep on each map and defend around the WP. This is some interesting, I have try it. But there is not enough people who want to fight like that. You need at least 5 people / map to be able to do something… When you had difficulty to have 5 to 10 people on ABL !
– Because there is no tactical value on keep or tower (siege from tower to keep, WP) the EB zerg don’t jump on the DBL. Because most of people hate the map, because T0 or T3 is the same, and because everyone queue EB and want to be able to come back.
– You can add all the new power kitten, stab issue, annoying condi and you have all you need to kill the game…
Map is not what make all the issue, but it’s a part of them. As I say before, ABL with HoT stuff will probably be the same fail. Maybe some people will come back, but I doubt that we will have the same population before HoT.
I will be fine with no loot or xp from siege, and more loot without siege…
This can be a good solution, but don’t touch AC’s…. Just remove reward if you use them…
Protecting your stuff and killing ennemy is enough for me as reward.
“real” WvW need KT players because if you only take the “core real www players” you have close to no one…. People want fun, loot, reward… If they can have that at any time of the day in eotm, and only this at prime time in “real wvw” then they go to eotm…
And I remember to see so much “real wvw players” telling that the KT players are not “real wvw players”…
We need everyone in WvW, scout, roaming, zerg, and KT to increase the zerg size…
The main issue is that “real wvw” is not rewarding enough… And that the server system make that there is not enough people at off peak time…
The new map with WP closed and the big size make that actually it’s even worse that before…
People who only have 1H to play want to see action and fight, not running after pve or pvd because the map is too big or because there is not enough people on the map.
The new map need a lot of people to work…. And you have more chance to see more people on top server…. Then people go where the action is….
The new map is unplayable with few players (too big, wp issue, etc).
For me eotm is fine, but the map suck… Really….
So much place where you can die just because you have failed your puzzle jump…
And all those strange thing… kitten I want a real map, not some azzura place.
For sure if the map was better I will probably play more on eotm and leave WvW… At least there is always people online in eotm.
Old is not bether
New is not better because it’s new….
And asking for change don’t mean accepting any kitten because it’s new…
AC are fine…. You need 2 or 3 sups ac to really kill ennemy players….
1 AC alone do just nothing, it’s just good to kill proxy cata, and useless against ram. Even 2 ACs are not enough against ram. Basic AC are just useless.
I’m for limiting the max siege on the same spot at 3, for every siege. This should be fine.
Yes small group (3-5) should be able to delay ennemy blob and push back small ennemy group (<10) if they don’t know what they are doing (the ennemy group).
Attacker will always have the long time advantage (killing doly, building siege at different spot, forcing defenders to use supply to repair / build siege).
If small group can not delay the ennemy zerg, then this will just be a KTrain on all the map.
I remember some fight at hills where the ennemy need 2/3 hours to take the keep !
This was intense fight… Ennemy building siege, defender need to repair, ally commander go to kill the ennemy, etc…
This was interesting, and this was very good for the scout who had “build” the keep all the day to be able to have the T3 with WP.
Those fight happen because we had the WP to come back to defend, because the ennemy want to take down our T3 because they know it was hard to build.
Moving back to the old WP style is the first thing to do in WvW…. It’s very very important !
And about the siege cap I’m for this ! Defender AND attacker should not be able to build tons of siege at the same spot ! 3 is a good number for me. This mean no more that 3 rams on gate or cata on the wall. And if you want to build shield gen this will reduce your fire power.
For the AC’s safe spot I’m fine with elem and meteor shower, because they have low life. But actually there is too much damage output for everyone. This need to be changed. And AC have small range, then I think we don’t need to change anything with AC. Just limit the number of siege at the same spot.
If we had more fight before it was because people don’t die so fast and because melee players where able to run in the ennemy without being killed half way.
We really need separate balance from pve / pvp and wvw… We need back a good stab, less damage output. Player need to have a chance to fight, not to be killed in 1s because they are perma CC.
The new upgrade system was build for 2 reasons :
– troll upgrade
– upgrade cost
This can be done in other way….
Before upgrade take supply from the keep, this added more value to supply, and need more tactical decision before starting upgrade.
I have other solution….
You need to use WvW rank to unlock ability to claim supply camp / tower / keep.
With WvW rank you can unlock more upgrade. Don’t know if you need WvW rank to unlock basic upgrade, maybe not. But at least for advanced upgrade (maybe like emergency WP, passive upgrade from WvW guild upgrade) or aura bonus. On my opinion we should just remove the bonus from guild upgrade.
Each player (not guild) can claim 1 thing in the map.
Each claim is for 4H max. You can go to the lord to increase your claim time.
Each player can start a poll on the map to force unclaim something.
Once you have claim something, you can choose who can start upgrade / take supply / build siege inside the keep.
You can choose to allow everyone, only ally (guild / players) or only yourself. Maybe something like whitelist / blacklist.
This will protect from supply / upgrade troll and give more control for the scout on the tower.
The upgrade are like the old system, they need supply and time. But no cost at all directly from the player.
You can choose what to upgrade, and you have to start the upgrade yourself.
Something like this allow to involve solo players, protect supply / upgrade troll, remove upgrade cost and give back the feeling that you “own” something.
WvW should not be around guild, but players and server. Guild need true GvG with ladder like PvP, but they should not be mandatory in WvW.
(edited by Sich.7103)
I will come back.
But I don’t want to see the HoT crap…
And Anet need to work on other stuff (class balance issue, wvw reward, …) to make me stay.
Then we have had different experiences. Have seen sides hold their keep from all takers for entire matches and commanders that would bring the zerg back if an alarm was raised from the defenders. Have seen the opposite as well, but don’t stick around for those.
Honestly I only see that 1 time…. And after 10min everyone was leaving because they where not interested to defend something and the commander was only with 10 people….
Do we have refund after loosing all our guild upgrade pre HoT when HoT was released ? no ….
Guild hall and guild upgrade are probably far more expensive that the old upgrade system.
All the new upgrade / guild upgrade is a big failure…. And give pve advantage in a pvp map for the most grinding guild… PvP world should not give so big advantage to people who farm like hell… And you can’t build your guild hall with WvW only…
On my side I didn’t use 1gold to those pve grind wall that is the guild hall….
It’s just so stupid to spend so much gold for this ! Donc cry to be refund, the first thing to do was to NOT upgrade your guild…. Anet build a piece of kitten, just don’t use it…
And for me it’s not a good thing to make WvW around Guild…. It’s not GvG….
And when were you out in EoTM? Recently? When it first came out? How fresh is your information?
Last week maybe… And yes EOTM like usual is not about holding anything.
Just about KTrain and fight. No one care about the PPT score.
It’s not a bad thing for me in this game mode, it’s only for fun and level up.
nop, you need that to be able to apply guild upgrade in WvW or to be able to reactivate the guild aura that you had before HoT…..
Yeah why not merge structure upgrade and guild upgrade.
But then you need to allow small guild to claim and not only big guild. With the cost of the guild hall all small guild have been killed.
It’s WvW, not GvG… You are forced to be in a big guild if you want to be able to give good advantage to your team. At least before HoT every scout was able to have is personnal guild and activate bonus on the keep.
I prefer to unlock claiming with WvW rank. Then alt/spy account need to upgrade the account to be able to claim the keep. And then yes, merge guild upgrade and structure upgrade.
If no one care about the structure it will not upgrade. If someone want to manage the structure, then he can choose how to upgrade it. And the best players can give the best bonus. But this should really be linked to players, not to guild. There is no reason that you need to farm pve with a big guild to be able to add bonus in WvW.
And ofc, add the unclaim poll to be able to unlock something that has been claimed by someone who is blocking the upgrade.
But the bonus should be more wall / door / canon / aura / real WP… Not activator.
Then once you claim something, you can activate the upgrade. Each upgrade need some other (like fortified gate need reinforced). Each upgrade can be started alone. Upgrade are free, but need time and supply. Doly bring supply in the keep, it’s your job to take care if you can start the upgrade or not.
At least this will allow to use the WvW bonus point, so much people have countless free point.
About the shrine yeah, they can stay, but I don’t like the fact that they give pve advantage. The fire/wind turret are just annoying, the first shrine is useless. I mean don’t give advantage at all… Maybe give small PPT, and keep the swiftness bonus. This could be fine.
(edited by Sich.7103)
Yes DBL was made for eotm.
In eotm no one care about the keep. It’s the same on DBL because they have no value, and all is automatic.
They have made some change with the required number of dolyak, but initially all was running alone. Exactly what eotm need…. Useless structure upgrading alone, to allow player focusing on KTrain / Fight.
But with the size of the map you need tons of players to make something playable… This is only possible 24H/24 in eotm.
The new map could be playable yes.
– But at least we need the old WP system (WP for everyone and only at T3).
– Nerf or better, remove the activator
– I don’t like the shield gen… But why not if people want that
– Sad to see that the tower have no tactical value, they don’t even block the dolyak who go to rampart if you control the north tower
– The keep are really too big, but with more people we can do something.
– I would really like to the see the old upgrade system, maybe just with karma and/or badge. But the cost was fine for me, far less that the new guild upgrade. And the ability to choose your “path” was really interesting. Maybe just add few protection (only the guild who claim can start upgrade, counter claim with a poll , etc).
– remove the shrine
I don’t like the map, really, but at least it’s something new… The core issue are all the mechanics they have change, the pirate ship meta, the stab issue. And the new map need really more player, they need to remove at least 2 or 3 tiers in EU to concentrate people.
This will not change the tactical issue on the new map (tower useless, keep too big), but will at least make the game will involve more players and not pve or automatic stuff.
Yes we where able to control alpine with 5 active people. We had generally some other people running around but who don’t speak with anyone.
But eb was always called when we had too much ennemy on the map, and people joined the Alpine map because they know that we are defending, and that if we hold the map we can have the WP.
Now that we can’t have the WP and that the tower have no tactical advantage at all, no one care about jumping on BL to defend something. All is useless on the DBL, except PPT structures have no value at all.
PS : We where on T3 EU at this time. Off peak time was quiet and few people was able to do the job. But at least there where job to do, and this mean something. With all auto or no WP available there no point to have T0 or T3.
How did you know about the WP change before HoT was out? Were you a beta tester? A quick look through your post history (forgive me, I must be thorough in all things q_q) suggests that you were willing to try the WP change out at first but have since soured on it.
It was say here that the WP was only in the south tower, and only for the team who have the nearest spawn…
After that they have change the WP and bring them back to the keep, but always only for 1 team.
And yes I have say that anet forced us to play on the 3 map and we have to try this and the map can be playable with this. But I have always say that the WP should be only at T3.
The problem with the actual WP is that you need to be on the 3 map… It’s impossible at off peak time… And defending only your home map is impossible because of those WP…
As I don’t play too much at prime time I focus on the game at off peak time. And generally on the home BL off peak time mean 5 to 10 players maximum who are not on EB… And in the morning it was not more that 5… How do you want to defend all that map with 5 guys ? How do you want to spread on 3 map at 5 ?
And I say it again, the WP change was announced before we had the map.
What I don’t understand is why people continu to think that the new DBL is fine until you learn it ? Sorry, I have learned the new map, and I hate it… Sorry I have learn the new mechanics and I hate it….
Before HoT was out I have say here on this forum that the auto upgrade and the WP change will kill a big part of the game…
I was scout on the Alpine BL. Generally defending Hills…
I loved to make this, yeah… The main job was defending the south camp.
Manual upgrade cost some gold yes, but this was not a issue because we have a big community guild who provided gold and siege for the scout. And I prefer cost to upgrade (at least ennemy won’t upgrade something that he will not defend) that huge grind wall for guild upgrade !
With the old system you have to make the good choice about wich upgrade to start… Rush the WP ? Start the wall first ?
And you have to make other choice, like storing supply to be able to repair in case of attack ? Start building siege before starting upgrade ? If you start some upgrade without escorting yaks your keep will stay with 0 supply !
No the old system was fine ! Maybe just allow that only the guild who claimed the keep can start upgrade. But the guild need to reclaim the keep each hours, or maybe 2 hours max. Or be able to start a pool on the map to force unclaim a keep.
The old upgrade system make that the server with good organisation (scout, community guild, roaming guy) will be able to upgrade the keeps. And the “bad” server won’t be able to do that because no one want to do the job.
The only thing that I don’t liked on the Alpine BL was that we don’t have fortified gate… The reinforced gate was too easy to open by a zerg. Then maybe you takes 8H to build your T3, but the ennemy zerg can be in the lord room in less that 3min.
Alpine BL needed some work yes. They have alreasy nerf the dragoon tooth, now there is only the meteor shower who is real threat it can be ok.
Players wanted to have a new map yes, but not the deserted BL… And not the HoT stuff… Too much PVE advantage (guild upgrade, shrine).
I was scout (I don’t play anymore, hate too much the HoT change), but I don’t want to have PVE grindable advantage ! I want to be able to make fair defense and fair fight. WvW is PvP around keep and tower… Not PVE.
Could you please just put the alpine back without kittening it up with the stupid HoT crap?
If you actually payed attention to what the wvw players were requesting you would realize we are tired of the broken kitten you introduced. No kittening banners, tactivators, or auto upgrades. Just give us our dammed map back.
exactly… +1
What I am interested in hearing is how will the WP situation be handled. Will it go back to old way where you could use any you owned or the current way.
Of course not, they will change it to current state. Thats what they need to do on the old maps.
It would be foolish to release old map where stuff is working.
They need to be sure that those side keep waypoints stay bugged.
Yep I fear Anet didn’t understand that a lot of players want the old WvW, not only the old map…
The old map with the HoT WvW will be the same failure as the DBL.
…
The stupid thing was to spend so much money for that….
Really, I think that people who spend so much gold in that “thing” are crazy….
- Scout can control how to upgrade the keep
– No sentry to give information about ennemy move > players need to roam on the map and to talk each other
– You have to make choice between upgrading or storing supply or building siege
– More supply limit in the keep
– No stupid guild upgrade who are for pve and not for pvp
– more compact
– more big area to fight and less choc point
– Keep are easier and not so big, and look like keep
– Tower can treb keep > tower have tactical value
– WP only at T3 and for everyone who is able to upgrade the keep.
– WP is hard to get, then people want to defend it, and ennemy want to destroy it.
– WP on the home BL help to defend the map
– Easy way to go from one keep to another, no maze
– no kittening central event
I will probably log in again for the Alpine BL.
But if the map include all the new HoT stuff I will probably not stay…
Don’t want to play with pve grindable guild upgrade, or auto upgrade without human action…
My dream is to see the old BL with the old WvW stuff….
Not the old BL with all the HoT crap…