Guild Wars 2

RedSpectrum.1975:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The funny part about those screenshots is the fact that it takes you over 40k of total damage just to down a naked person. >.<’

You’re mistaken I think, the naked thief was downed after the backstab, but he auto attacked twice while she was on the ground. He backed away to avoid doing too much damage so as not to kill her. Notice the lack of a lotus strike
EDIT: the exp shows he killed her -_- BUT idk if you meant down down or dead down

Perhaps that’s the case, but look at the first screenshot.

Remember that “damage” means that the armor of the target was included into the calculation — meaning, the “+10% damage” will not show on your skill tool tip because the “armor” factor is not included in the tool tip.

I can’t verify this, but it seems to me, based solely on my observation, that the “+10%” is added after your “weapon * power * skill” were divided by the target’s armor.

Basically, you take the numbers from your skill tool tip, divide that by the target’s armor, then add 10%, that’s your net damage.

If you look here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Damage_calculation

The part where it shows:

Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient

That’s the number that shows in your tool tip.

GL, hope this helps.

The funny part about those screenshots is the fact that it takes you over 40k of total damage just to down a naked person. >.<’

Genocide.4506:

This naked 80 thief was running around and i decide to stab her from behind she let me do it again and again

That sounded dirty…. >.<’

tigirius.9014:

The only problems I’ve seen with mobs in PVE are how they STILL to this day somehow see you when they cast certain spells while you’re visible and then when you stealth those spells still hit you and fly right to you if you’re in the process of escaping.

Some mobs follow you like they can see you still.

About projectiles: Slow moving projectiles, like Guardian’s Scepter auto-attack, will track you until it hit (or decayed) even if you go in stealth. That’s because the skill only check for target status upon casting — the projectile does not. So once the target check is confirmed, that slow moving projectile will follow you until it hit or decayed.

About Mob AI: They will run towards the point where you activated stealth. Say there are 2 rocks next to each other. You are standing on Rock-A when you activate stealth, then you move to Rock-B. You can then watch the mob running towards Rock-A, because this is where they’ve seen you last. So if you just stay there thinking that they will go away, then you’re toast, because they will stay there for atleast 6s before they move away — while keeping aggro on you the whole time. Fun, fun.

Stephen.6312:

I think that you’ve both brought up a good point which I concede.

My theory about the ED’s being embodiments of Tyria, however, I will continue to speculate about.

That is a very good story but not the first. The Square game called Chrono Cross (edit: now that I think of it, it might be some other game) also have the story based on the idea that the dragons are somewhat part of “earth”. That story line is really good, but in the end, it’s too shallow and boring because it leave the hero feeling defeated. How can the hero fight the dragons if the very nature of their extermination will also cause global annihilation?

So if the EDs are embodiments of Tyria, how can the hero destroy the very planet they live in? But this is not the case. The fact that no such retaliation (like weather change or earthquake) came from Tyria after defeating Zhaitan proves that your theory, may be a good story, is unfortunately also not accurate.

Pawstruck.9708:

Holy crap.

Rune of Air.

/thread.

I thought so.

How ironic that they promise mobility yet we get a 1s root. I hope this is not final because this simply doesn’t make any sense. I can’t think of any scenario why would you root a Thief from using Body Shot?

I guess while aiming with MH pistol, a P/P shoot itself on the foot — or a P/D dropped the dagger on their foot?

Stephen.6312:

The recorded troubles of Tyria began subsequent to the arrival of humans, suggesting that the planet is in fact sentient and/or that the EDs embody that sentience.

Unfortunately you are mistaken. The only reason why the “troubles of Tyria” seems to begin after humans only because humans were the ones who started recording Tyria’s troubles in their history books, scrolls, stones, etc. that were used for educational purposes.

In fact, with the help of the Priory, we have learned that the troubles of Tyria predates humans, a.k.a. the first arrival of the EDs, thus they are determined to excavate whatever information they can find to defeat the dragons.

You drew the wrong conclusion, but you make a good story.

This sounds like Rune of Air to me.

If you buff the stats on an Exotic weapon by 1%, then you get the stats of an Ascended.

Yes, the difference is trivial at most.

There’s already a discussion about this in here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Modified-Anti-Stealth-Suggestion/first#post2848598

Excalibur.9748:

Demonts.4593:

i think they said that they are only gonna make larcenous strike take 1 boon instead of 2 and thats it. A good ele or halfway decent mesmer can survive and kill an s/d thief. Staff mesmer DESTROY s/d thieves too. S/d thief really is nothing great 1v1 and is as good as anything else in teamfights. Everyone wants everybody else’s classes to be nerfed so they can feel good. that’s just the way it is. People need to L2P.

ya S/D thief is nothing special even in sPvP. Warrior is where it’s at. Been playing ma warrior in sPvP and it’s nice and simple and very rewarding.

I agree, Warriors are too simple to play that I get bored really easy so I went back to my Thief.

You got a lot of good points that would be nice to be discussed separately, especially your scary Mesmer Elite skill. Reminds me of Countess Anise when she’s angry…shivers.

Wow! I joined the Order of Whispers so I don’t have to read at wall of texts. >.<’

It would be best to create a thread for each topic you have here, since the discussion will get easily convoluted with many mini topics.

Ghostwolf.9863:

And dagger ! http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zenith_Kris_Skin

Nope. Those are pistols.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zenith_Pistol_Skin

Excalibur.9748:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Doggie.3184:

I never use Sword in PvE and WvW. It’s pretty much garbage.
It’s nice in Spvp only, and that’s by using 2 S/D sets… which is a shame. Just makes our weapon choices in the overall game feel really limited.

Try taking out a siege engine with anything other than using sword in WvW.

Now try S/P using pistol whip. Do you see it now? Now use it on the gate.

This is one of those special occasions where S/P is effective. Use it any other way at your own risk.

what’s special about using sword on a siege engine? wouldn’t you do more damage with dagger with backstab?

Did you read what I suggested?

“Try taking out a siege engine with anything other than using sword in WvW.

Now try S/P using pistol whip. Do you see it now?"

So why do you still ask me that question?

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Stacking is somewhat important for damaging duration conditions and regeneration in that the highest potency (condition damage/healing power) condition/boon currently in the stack decides the damage/healing for the whole stack. When it falls off, the effect falls to the next highest. It’s important to know if the highest damage/healing participant is working towards maintaining the stack or not.

That’s a lot of demand for resources just to keep track of all Burning types, for example, just to reject the weak ones and prioritize the strong ones. Those are a lot of unnecessary calculations.

It should only make one time comparison. A burn that is on the target will be the subject of the comparison. Then each burn object will be compared, and if the object is better, the subject is then replaced. If the object is not better, it will simply reset the duration of the subject, then the object is dropped. The RAM will only maintain memory space for the subject. No stack is needed.

I’m sure that this decision making algorithm is already in game when deciding which condition to add to the stack. So it can be easily modified by making it seems like the stack is always full.

Daecollo.9578:

Kenmei.7138:

lol you guys say bout OPness of stealing 2 buffs while necro can change them all into conditions wtf?

Then spread those conditions to five other enemies.. lol

And deal damage per condition. lol

There was a comment I read in one of the threads today.

“spam back stab”

lol

The sad thing about this is, it will require a Ranger to waste a good Utility slot just to use Sic ’em. Kinda lame.

I wonder if the spirit Rangers will even bother with this….hmmm.

Archon.6481:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Archon.6481:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

Umm, no. Thieves can stealth + run (shadowstep if you want) in any direction they want. Many attacks are unusable against a stealthed thief, and many more are very difficult to use against the thief.

So the problem here is not stealth, rather it’s your inability to find them. I got it. Thanks.

Those problems do not apply to warriors running away. In fact, they can still be CC’d. Many CC options against thieves, even if they land, aren’t as effective because you dont know if they land (dodge in stealth), and usually don’t even know the thief’s exact location.

lol, have you tried to CC a running away Warrior before? Of course you have not. Otherwise you wouldn’t even post some thing like that. Let’s stay honest here and leave your speculations out of the discussion.

I have over 1000+ hrs in my Thief. I have seen first hand how each profession tuck their tails between their legs and run. I know what skills they use to run away.

So for you to say of Warriors, “they can still be CC’d”, is based on your naivete.

I have over 1k hours on my thief too? Even if I didn’t, it doesn’t make my argument invalid. Lets stop with the fallacies.

lol. That’s an inside joke among the Thief community.

Relax. :P

Warriors can be CC’d. The only time they can’t is when they have the -97% condition reduction and stability. Back when I roamed, I would always roam with another thief, sometimes 3. You won’t get away before you die to 3 glass cannon thieves. If you don’t have neither of those things then his shouldn’t even be a discussion.

I’m not arguing whether Warriors can be CC’d or not. If a Warrior wants to get away, they will make sure that no matter what kind of CC you throw at them, they will just ignore it.

The point here is, if one profession, no matter which one, want to run away, they can — they all have the ability to do so. So I’m wondering what’s the problem with stealth?

I had many hours of personal experience that shows that you can infact CC warriors. I you cannot then they will die before they get away. If they’re tanky enough to survive me solo and run away, then I can ignore them because they’ll never kill me by themselves with the pitiful damage they do.

You’re missing the point. You keep on blabbering about unrelated stuff only to prove my point. Again, my point is, if a profession, including specially a Warrior, wants to turn tail and disengage to run away, they can.

You still have not refuted that point.

EDIT: Forgot this part
What’s your point with it being difficult to find stealthed characters? It accomplishes the same goals (running away) as the warrior, albeit easier and more reliable.

I had a simple question. What’s the problem with stealth?

You complain about Thief running away easily, well other profession can do that also. In fact, Mesmer’s Decoy is more impressive. Engineer has perma-swiftness and shrinking anti-CC.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

…means less data has to be stored in our RAM which will effectively speeds up the game and reduce lag.

So why not simply refresh the duration instead of bothering with stacking?

Doggie.3184:

I never use Sword in PvE and WvW. It’s pretty much garbage.
It’s nice in Spvp only, and that’s by using 2 S/D sets… which is a shame. Just makes our weapon choices in the overall game feel really limited.

Try taking out a siege engine with anything other than using sword in WvW.

Now try S/P using pistol whip. Do you see it now? Now use it on the gate.

This is one of those special occasions where S/P is effective. Use it any other way at your own risk.

Ryan.8367:

yea, because flanking striking the air to get a 2 boon steal skill isn’t bugged/op at all

please

Everything that Thieves does is OP, don’t you know that?

Even if we are to use a pair of tooth picks, Rangers and Warriors will still cry about it.

evilapprentice.6379:

This way, thieves heavy into SA still have access to all their stealth based traits and abilities(Might on stealth, health regen, condition dropping, stealth attacks, etc), but players can still see them.

There was an occasional graphic glitch/bug that it doesn’t turn me invisible when even under stealth that really bugs me, thus this will really bug me.

Why not make us transparent instead? That way, as a Thief, I can also tell if my stealth mode is active.

But to be honest, I hated stealth from the beginning. Even more so because there are many skills that relies on using it.

My S/D build still wreak them…who needs stealth? Didn’t you notice that they are whining about Thieves evades now…surprise, surprise.

I guess chain blind is next…

First of all, “boon hate” was Anet’s brilliant idea that is now exploding on their faces. If I remember correctly, this is not something we were asking for. We just need them to fix the pathing on FS.

Second, LS already got nerfed in the previous patch and getting nerfed again? Even after this nerf, I bet you, it’s still going to be a problem.

Third, Anet sees the problem and always doing a fix that brings in more problem. The problem with FS/LS from it’s first incarnation was the fact that LS becomes useable even if FS didn’t made a clean hit. So Thieves are pre-casting FS to gain access to LS on their first strike on the opponent. We’ve seen this to be a problem way before because a Theif can practically steal 4 boons right off the bat — and how did Anet fix this? Increase the cost of LS. facepalm

Forth, until they have someone in their design/balance team who actually play a thief and provide a first hand feedback, they will never get it right…ever!

Fifth, LS is not the problem here, it’s FS. If they require FS to make a clean hit before LS can become available, the spammability of LS will be contained. The cost to steal 4 boons will then be 10 init, instead of 7. And if FS was blocked, since it is not unblockable, LS will stay disabled because of the required clean hit.

This is simply based on observing other S/D Thieves and I knew from the start that this will be an issue — and here we are trying to clean up the mess. But seeing that they are trying to fix this the wrong way (again) no longer surprise me, but still makes my blood boils.

sigh ok I’m done.

Archon.6481:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

Umm, no. Thieves can stealth + run (shadowstep if you want) in any direction they want. Many attacks are unusable against a stealthed thief, and many more are very difficult to use against the thief.

So the problem here is not stealth, rather it’s your inability to find them. I got it. Thanks.

Those problems do not apply to warriors running away. In fact, they can still be CC’d. Many CC options against thieves, even if they land, aren’t as effective because you dont know if they land (dodge in stealth), and usually don’t even know the thief’s exact location.

lol, have you tried to CC a running away Warrior before? Of course you have not. Otherwise you wouldn’t even post some thing like that. Let’s stay honest here and leave your speculations out of the discussion.

I have over 1000+ hrs in my Thief. I have seen first hand how each profession tuck their tails between their legs and run. I know what skills they use to run away.

So for you to say of Warriors, “they can still be CC’d”, is based on your naivete.

Coloxeus.3480:

no because of this

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/68751/1367433923196.gif

http://i.minus.com/iw8rMxBrcErRo.gif

Sad, but true. Anet’s one and only purpose in life. They never really diverted away from that ever since GW1.

Shemsu.8721:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

dDuff.3860:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

dDuff.3860:

Also i want #3 skill to add vulnerability, so power line with condi duration would still be a good choice for P/P

You can trait it to get the vulnerability. Having that capability on the weapon skill will be either redundant or extremely OP.

So body shot is OP on your opinion?

What body shot got to do with Unload? What’s your point of even bringing this up?

Even if taking into consideration this trait, i think that 8 stacks of vuln on unload is fine, paired with some vuln from trait it could do a thing to P/P, but still i can’t see P/P being OP in this case.

This is the problem that I always see in this forum. Your field of view is too narrow and it’s the main reason why you don’t see it.

For your sake I’ll explain.
- Vulnerability gives +1% damage per stack up to 25 stacks.
— Sources: Sundering strike (trait), body shot, CnD
- Exposed weakness (trait) give +10% damage on target with condition (in this case Vuln)
- Combined training (trait) gives +5% damage (in this case Unload)
- First Strikes (trait) gives +10% damage if Init > 6
- Pistol Mastery (trait) +10% pistol damage
- Executioner (trait) +20% damage to target < 50% HP
- Flanking Strikes (trait) +5% damage if attacks are from behind/side

Now depending on the build, all these gets crazy when you factor in crit chance and crit damage on top of condition damage.

Right now I can single-handedly maintain 10-12 stacks of vulnerability on my target.

If your proposed change will take into effect, I can single-handedly stacks up to 20 or maybe even 25 stacks if I have condition duration items. Who needs a party anymore?

So what your saying is if changes went in like that, you still couldnt stack vulv as well as engi, or others, on a single target, let alone aoe. why is it op for us, but not for other classes?

Let the other class be OP, that has nothing to do with Thieves. If they remain OP and Anet acknowledge it, then they’ll get the nbat not us.

The question is, if you acknowledge that to be OP, then why in the world are you setting up the profession to get the nbat?

Let’s think for a minute.

naphack.9346:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Blind stacking up to 5 times better not end duration after the next attack that would hit. Otherwise, this is crap. If GW2 blind functions the same as GW1 blind, then yay! Unfortunately it’s not. :/

have you ever seriously had a target keep the blind condition for a whole 5 stacks worth of time?
Every friggin target in the game would have gotten rid of it by the time, this change really makes ANY difference on blind.
If it didn’t, chances are, it won’t ever and spamming blind on it is meaningless anyway, because it probably got nothing, the game recognizes as attacks and is just some static object/test dummy standing around minding its own business.
I mean, come on, even, if all 5 blinds are a baseline 2 seconds duration, that’s 10 seconds worth of blinding, where the following things are not allowed to happen:
-Target attacks and misses -> removes blind
-Target cleanses conditions -> removes blind
-Target dies -> blind becomes meaningless

Basically, anything, which removes blind will, well, remove it(duh), thus removing it(!) from the target, so the next blind application is, well, you figured it out already, applied to a target, which doesn’t have blind yet, so it will get a new stack counter.

Cry for choking gas, not for black powder shot.

You obviously have no idea what you’re responding to. >.<’

Omnitek.3876:

I just think that moving normal speed or faster than normal while stealthed is…. Dumb.

Thieves can move from point A to point B within the casting range in an instant…why increase of movement speed while in stealth an issue? Are you then going to suggest that shadowstep is also dumb?

Besides, that’s off topic.

Shoe.5821:

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

essentially, in WvW that permastealth equates to infinite ability to choose engagements and/or to disengage

coupled with the wide availability of stealth

a good thief won’t win every fight but they have no reason to ever die (which, for example, deprives other players of the rewards for winning a fight.)

If you failed to kill a Thief, you failed to win a fight, therefore you don’t deserve a reward.

And why is that a problem? Warriors can disengage and run away faster than a Thief and they don’t even need stealth.

Again, what’s the problem with stealth?

I gave a feedback on that thread hoping that they will also fix the timing issues on pistols.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Thief
We’re also looking at shaving the efficiency of Flanking Strike slightly, so that it now only removes 1 boon instead of 2.

Feedback: If this would be the case, will the cost go back down to 1 init also?

Also, pistol main hand may see one of its skills reworked to better support allies. We have multiple prototypes that we’re trying out, so we’ll have to see which we settle on by the next release.

Feedback: Since this is receiving attention, how about fixing the casting/after cast time? The pistol #1 is not shooting as fast as it should. In fact, there’s a lot of after cast issue with pistol in either or both hands.

Am I missing the part where Stealth is a problem?

I understand that people want to change it, but the question I have is – what is the problem? What needs to be balanced?

There’s no room for discussion here.

dDuff.3860:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

dDuff.3860:

Also i want #3 skill to add vulnerability, so power line with condi duration would still be a good choice for P/P

You can trait it to get the vulnerability. Having that capability on the weapon skill will be either redundant or extremely OP.

So body shot is OP on your opinion?

What body shot got to do with Unload? What’s your point of even bringing this up?

Even if taking into consideration this trait, i think that 8 stacks of vuln on unload is fine, paired with some vuln from trait it could do a thing to P/P, but still i can’t see P/P being OP in this case.

This is the problem that I always see in this forum. Your field of view is too narrow and it’s the main reason why you don’t see it.

For your sake I’ll explain.
- Vulnerability gives +1% damage per stack up to 25 stacks.
— Sources: Sundering strike (trait), body shot, CnD
- Exposed weakness (trait) give +10% damage on target with condition (in this case Vuln)
- Combined training (trait) gives +5% damage (in this case Unload)
- First Strikes (trait) gives +10% damage if Init > 6
- Pistol Mastery (trait) +10% pistol damage
- Executioner (trait) +20% damage to target < 50% HP
- Flanking Strikes (trait) +5% damage if attacks are from behind/side

Now depending on the build, all these gets crazy when you factor in crit chance and crit damage on top of condition damage.

Right now I can single-handedly maintain 10-12 stacks of vulnerability on my target.

If your proposed change will take into effect, I can single-handedly stacks up to 20 or maybe even 25 stacks if I have condition duration items. Who needs a party anymore?

Here’s another fact:
“More importantly for many players, filling one’s Hall of Monuments is the only way to unlock a number of Guild Wars 2 bonus items and titles. "

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hall_of_Monuments

dDuff.3860:

Also i want #3 skill to add vulnerability, so power line with condi duration would still be a good choice for P/P

You can trait it to get the vulnerability. Having that capability on the weapon skill will be either redundant or extremely OP.

dDuff.3860:

Well, guys, one thing you may want to know, PW isn’t rooting you at place, you could hit movement button again, and you will move (interrupts PW ofc).
Mobile PW would be ridiculously OP.

Not OP, viable. The main issue I have with the rooting is not that I take damage from retaliation, rather because of rooting, PWing a moving target places you pass the target and often times hitting nothing but air. In a game where there’s a lot of moving around, this is a major problem.

I think you mean agent of the Whispers since Vigils has no agents.

Blind stacking up to 5 times better not end duration after the next attack that would hit. Otherwise, this is crap. If GW2 blind functions the same as GW1 blind, then yay! Unfortunately it’s not. :/

lol, probably some of us are in Anet’s watch list and when we congregate in one thread, they are obligated to close it. :P

It’s all Issues.5789’s fault.

Caom.9251:

I would love to address all you’re points separately, but my time is quite limited today. (I’ll come back tomorrow).

So let’s address one thing right now

“You got it this one wrong. Just because someone has Ret up, doesn’t necessarily mean I would not use PW. And if they pop Ret during PW, why do I have to waste me precious dodge and shadowstep to stop PW”

Okay to the point, I personally feel attacking a target with retaliation is not worth the risk as it is not rewarding enough (damage in comparison to the damage you take).

You obviously feel differently and I don’t mind that.

The issue might not lie with a single target , but a group. If you are hitting 2 or 3 targets that have retaliation up your health will go down incredibly fast, as though you were being bursted down. So even if you could potentially move and limit the number of attacks, you would only be able to get a small amount of hits in, or take massive damage.

That’s only true within the current situation where we are rooted and have to suck up all the damage. If we can move, we can use the stun part of the skill tactically while suppressing the burst damage. So even if the target or targets has retal, we can still use PW as an interrupt or evade.

This is why I feel that retaliation is the main problem and not the root.

I understand the repercussions of nerfing retaliation and I’m not for it (like I mentioned in the last post) but nor do I feel that we can do anything with the root on PW, unless we were to redesign the skill completely.

No need to redesign it. We’ve seen proof what Anet can do by looking at Flanking Strike. So either they remove the root, limit the number of hits to 3, or separate it into two skills just like FS/LS.

This is why I want ignore this problem because it cannot be fixed without major changes (although I do quite like the idea of reducing the number of strikes).

I want to give the attack another niche to fill.

There was a major discussion about this in this forum and there are tons of good ideas that Anet can use from there. The problem we are seeing is that, Thieves are at the bottom of the list. Compare the number of updates other professions had received, Thieves are left in the dark (pun pun).

Anet Logic:
If you trait for Fleet Shadow, fixing Meld with Shadows effectively gives you 50% movement increase for 1s, while in stealth.

Awesome! >.<’

Caom.9251:

No, changes to any class also effects every other class.

For example thieves have been one major factor in the disappearance of mesmers and eles due to how flanking strike was altered, another example would be necromancers. Although your suggested change may not be as “radical” it still brings problems.

But that is only when a Thief is present. A change to retaliation affects other profession even if the Thief is not present.

So why should we change something to other professions if the change is specifically to save Thieves from killing themselves when using PW?

Does that really makes sense to you?

Bear in mind that PW was designed with the root in mind that is why there is a stun at the start of the chain as well as an evasion component. This basically prevents you becoming a easy target when being rooted. If you can have free movement it would make it more difficult for classes who don’t have access to retaliation to counter.

You are contradicting yourself here. If the evade is to prevent Thief from being an easy target, then others will not be able to counter them anyway. So why even bother rooting?

Also by removing the root you are not actually fixing the retaliation problem.

There’s is not problem with retaliation, thus it doesn’t need to be fixed.

If any class has ret up you would not attack that target under most circumstances, this means you still won’t be able to use PW. If the target pops retaliation during your PW you can still cancel it by dodging, shadowsteps etc. Your change will not resolve this issue as much as you hope.

You got it this one wrong. Just because someone has Ret up, doesn’t necessarily mean I would not use PW. And if they pop Ret during PW, why do I have to waste me precious dodge and shadowstep to stop PW?

By removing the root, I can gauge and manage how much I am willing to risk. Rooting doesn’t give me this capability.

My suggested change was not to nerf retaliation, I merely stated that retaliation was the problem with S/P. It is the problem for S/P because you are only capable of using the dual wield ability offensively, to hit the target, sure you could use the evasion component but the slight delay at the start makes it hard to time.

If that is the case, then you are wrong to begin with.

You said: ‘That boon will wreck you as a S/P even after they nerfed ret damaged.’
I responded: ‘The only reason retaliation is the problem its because you are rooted.’

So if S/P have a problem with Ret, then S/P has to change, not Ret.

What I want for P/W is a second use, I want the evasion component to start slightly earlier and be reduced slightly at the the end. This would hopefully allow S/P to be used defensively and not useless when enemies have retaliation up.

That will not fix it since the real problem with PW is that it hits 9 times, thus triggers Ret for 9 times. The only fix for this is to limit the number of hits to 3 but the total damage dealt remains the same.

Would there be problems with my suggestions? Absolutely, but that’s the whole point of this discussion (except it isn’t about Infiltrator’s Strike).

We are still on topic though since OP used S/P as an example and mentioned PW.

Daecollo.9578:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Daecollo.9578:

Passive: … This caps out at 1000 per hit.

lol. Even then. Do you know how hard S/D hits? That cap means nothing.

Also do you realize that using Mug will only increase the amount healed?

How hard does your SD hit?

I can understand healing alot for hitting no armored underleveled targets.

S/D’s auto attack hits for less than 1000, so capping it to 1000, means nothing. It will only affect hits that are over 3k. Like I said, this cap means nothing.

The only real fix to SoM is to allow us to keep the passive even on CD.

The main problem with P/P suggestions is that most of the time, the OP will describe an issue then make a suggestion that doesn’t eliminate the issue or have not consider the scope of the change.

Problems:

1. Any changes made to #1, #2, #4, and #5 will greatly affect the functionality of other weapon sets (D/P, P/D, S/P). We can’t just suggest a change without considering this.
2. Unload is the only thing exclusive to P/P and if there’s any change, it will happen to Unload.
3. Being able to kill someone with P/P will undermine the effectiveness of other weapon set.
4. If you think #1, #2, #4, and #5 are the problem, because they are. Those skills has no place in P/P set.

I have used P/P ever since I made my Thief and I have 1000+ hrs on it. The only solution to this is to give P/P and D/D a five skills dual wield instead of just #3. If Anet made it this way, any tweak that is meant for P/P (or D/D) will only affect P/P ( or D/D). There will be no issue with the other weapon sets.

The “dual wield” attribute is exclusive to Thieves, Anet should take advantage of that.

Copestetic.5174:

Not to mention, he’s wielding King Adelbern’s sword. I’m going to steal it…someday.

Actually, he’s wielding Rurik’s sword.

“He wields Sohothin, the sword previously owned by Prince Rurik.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rytlock_Brimstone