Guild Wars 2

The joke is on those who will actually try to get those ascended. Not me in any case. I’m done with GW2, as many people, but I did try to give it an honest chance after seeing all my headstart friends leave.

This game is finished for everyone with a brain. See you all in the next mmorpg.

Well I accidentally deleted FF from my pc. Dunno if I’ll download it again soon, but if I do will contact you.

Isn’t it about time we call the “back-on-topic-brake”?

Lets face the facts:

• An unknown percentage of players is fine with ascended.
• An unknown percentage of players considers it the step towards even more grinding.
• Group 1 disagrees with Group 2 and Group 2 disagrees with Group 1
• Group 1 is satisfied with Guild Wars 2 and will continue playing until they are bored.
• Group 2 has the feeling Anet lied to it’s customers (them) and is untrue to their earlier adopted viewpoints.
• Both groups have arguments for their position, based on their opinions and preferences. Both are correct in liking/disliking grinding.
• One thing that is undeniably true from Group 2’s viewpoint is that ArenaNet made Guild Wars 2 more grindy than it was in the beginning.

One way or another, Arenanet will loose part of it’s playerbase to this.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Defiance is like Mass Effect without the story. Kind of, I think. That sounds kind of right lol. It’s based off the SyFy show Defiance (which probably doesn’t help you if you don’t know what it is in the first place lol). It’s not really a bad game, just doesn’t have a lot of content and was poorly done. The idea is nice, but the execution needed a lot of work.

Thanks for the response. Not really what I’m looking for then. I like games with a fantasy setting featuring swords/bows/magic but with something unique to them, not the same old stereotype stuff. GW2 was unique in it that it brought their own races that were different from any I saw before, but I just can’t put up with the grind.

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

Defiance? Never heard of it, what is it about?

I did try Neverwinter & Firefall but can’t say they were any better than GW2. Neverwinter was a grind for leveling up (killing mobs and doing pointless quests).
Firefall just left me wandering cluelessly.

I still hope there are better mmos out there than GW2 though. If GW2 is the best one there is, the whole genre is messed up.

The whole genre is messed up. That’s the problem.

Sigh. FPS and MOBA games then, however much I dislike their lack of depth.

Defiance? Never heard of it, what is it about?

I did try Neverwinter & Firefall but can’t say they were any better than GW2. Neverwinter was a grind for leveling up (killing mobs and doing pointless quests).
Firefall just left me wandering cluelessly.

I still hope there are better mmos out there than GW2 though. If GW2 is the best one there is, the whole genre is messed up.

Well… lets look on the bright side:

• Anet implements Tier Exotic +1 gear that will bring Competitive PvP into a serious imbalance.
• Tier Exotic +1 gear is impossible to create, because it requires ridiculous amount of materials.
• Nobody makes ascended, so nobody needs to get them, cause if nobody has them, PvP won’t be imbalanced.

On top of that.

• No more reason to play, since Ascended was ment as their newest stick/carrot.
• No more GW2 full-time job (aka. grinding), time to go play a real game.

Wizzlock.3492:

I can only say for myself.
In the begining I was really protecting LS, asking my friends to give Anet some time. They will settle things eventually. But as OP said – it’s time to face some facts. What I got from LS so far?
Some shinnies – granted
2 week chore list – yup
Leaving friends – oh, yeah, 2 aside, my whole guild vanished
Grindfest – some like it, some don’t. It gets me bored (note that farming and grinding are fluent definitions and no one has to agree on what they mean to me… and LS for me is in some 80-90% made out of pointless farm)
Stories – yep. 5 minutes of poorly written not living to my lowest expectation, but yeah, we’ve got some stories. And those characters. Kiel is my favorite – she’s like a cartoon from a low budget production, that supposed to keep kids occupied in waiting line to the dentist office.

So yeah. I like the concept – I really do. But I can force myself to like execution. Main problem for me is fact, that LS is “the THING”. There is nothing else to GW2 now, than LS. Because it’s temporary. It sucked playerbase from other, higher quality things in game. So yeah. That’s it.
Some time ago, one guy on this forum, throw me a tart comment saying “maybe this game is not for you, so do yourself a favor and stop playing”. While I believe in constructive criticism (while I’m still surly in mine XD) not elitism, I thought – “hey! Maybe he’s right?!”. I took a week pause from GW2. Consider it a big step, because I’m a guy with inner completionist deamon inside, who has every daily, monthly PvE and PvP alike. And almost every achievement in LS, because after beating “trials” (cutthroat politics), I was one of those “lucky” guys who had bug and didn’t get achiv for it. So yeah – I heard Anet fixed it later, but then I was on delegation and my net connection didn’t allow me to do anything more than daily (and it was with lot of pain…). So now, after a week, my job send me to some faaar corner of the universe and I thought “hey – it’s a sign”. So I took second week of pit-stop. And yesterday, when I finally come back and saw all this clockwork thingies and organized, bored to death zergtrain, another chore list full of nonachiving achivements… all I could think and say was “nah”. And I turned off the game. I still have around 12 hours before new update hit, to catch whatever I can from this one, but why? Guy who send me home was right. It’s not a game for me anymore. I wanned Guild Wars that was sequel to a GW1. I wanned game that was painted before my eyes in manifesto. That’s why I bought GW2, that’s why I supported Anet. That’s what I didn’t get.

Yep, same thing here.
My first guild died. Then my second one. I joined a third that’s made up of really hardcore gw2 fans and they’re still clinging to the game, but 1/3rd of the active players has stopped playing (me included) because of the last 3 living story parts. ZERG ZERG ZERG. Sorry, if I can’t play a game my way anymore because of mindless kittens, then I quit.

Wizzlock.3492:

VoxShatterfall.5470:

Leablo.2651:

Being rewarded for investing time is neither casual nor hardcore, it’s just tryharding.

Having no life is not equivalent to skillful play.

Implying that putting in time / hard work shouldn’t be rewarded?

But to be clear I believe that skillful play should cut down on the grind, for example killing a single champ than having to kill 50 random monsters.

But hard work is all some have – saying that only those who are skillful should get certain rewards is something akin to claiming that only those who have time should get the rewards. Both parties deserve the chance to get the rewards in tier own playstyle. Then there is casual play which is rewarded with random loot drops ect.

Agree. But now we have rewards only for hardworking (or rather hardfarming) players with really big chunks of free time to spend. Kudos for them, I wish I were in their shoes. But I’m not.
Anet stated some time ago, that not every single LS arch will be for everyone. Let’s see how it went (Halloween and xmas aside), from my perspective (no one has to agree):
Lost Shore – a lil bit out of no where story, with hazy implementation. If we even can count it itno LS
Flame & Frost – all archs. A lil bit for farmers, something for those who like dungeons and slow pacing stories.
The secret of Southsun – farmfest
Last stand at Southsun – farmfest
SAB – jumping puzzle + farmfest for bubbles
Dragon Bash – farmfest + miniPvP game
Skypirates of Tyria – farmfest + dungeon
Bazaar of the Four Winds – farmfest + minigames
Cutthroat Politics – farmfest + 2 x minigames + a lot of political gireving for fractals with another layer of farmfest
Queen’s Jubilee – farmfest like never before
Clockwork Chaos – farmfest taken to another level

I agree, I also belive that best option is to design content, that could be beaten in several ways. You can do it by skillfull gamplay, by time consuming hardwork or something in the middle. Easy long way, normal way and extremely short and hard way.
But as it comes, we have only the farm way, You need to grind, or You stay behind. It’s like I’m playing another "f"2p Korean MMO. In last 2 weeks economy inflated so hard, prices on TP skyrocket to the celestial plane, that it leaves casual players in really bad situation. And we’re talking about 100% casual friendly game, aren’t we?

You are completely right, but arenanet simply doesn’t care. They’re only looking for better ways to create revenue.

Mastruq.2463:

MMOs are usually build on vertical progression. If you dislike what GW2 does with ascended itemenough to leave the game, then I cant recommend any of the ones I tried. All other real MMOs I tried are far more vertical in design.

A good idea might be trying out regular multiplayer games instead of persistant MMOs, like GW1.

I actually saw that in Age of Wushu they don’t have levels, so no gear grind, only unlocking skills and new abilities with special points you get through the game.

Here’s how it works:

While playing the game you will gather Experience Points for your character. Experience is gained through all kinds of activities, for example completing quests. One Experience Point will transform into 1000 Cultivation Points.

Experience -> Cultivation
The experience you gather converts into Cultivation Points. You can boost the speed of conversion from Experience to Cultivation with items such as Jackdaw Herb, which is a reward for school quests or completing instances. Other than that, the conversion runs automatically with time.

Cultivation -> Skill Levels!
Finally, Cultivation Points are converted into skill experience. You level up your skills by using up your Cultivation Points – either using “Internal Cultivation” (passive), “Practice Martial Arts” (using currency) or “Team Practice” (active training, most efficient with 10 players training together).

I’m not advertising this game, just showing an example of better progression in other mmos.

They should have dropped GW2 as a stand-alone game, instead upgraded GW1 to the new engine and servers and added a new expansion. I’m not saying GW2 is absolutely horrible, it’s still one of the better mmos out there, but mmos in general are horribly zergy.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Guild Wars 1 had skill grind. Every time a new product game out, there were new skills to acquire. Take the skill Save Yourselves. A perfectly innocuous skill, until you realized that your paragon imbagon build was completely dependent upon it and that you couldn’t get into a DOA group if it wasn’t high enough.

That was a Luxon/Kurzick skill which had 12 ranks. Look up FFF in the Guild Wars 1 wiki for instructions on how to fast faction farm. People farmed those points forever, to get skills like that up.

The necromancer skill necrosis from NF was also like that. You want that skill more powerful you have to grind Sunspear points. Technobabble, pain inverter, the sin skill which the permasin build depended on, the norn skill ursan, which people wanted you to have rank 8 or higher in their norn title track.

It’s the same thing here. Do you NEED ascended gear to play this game? No. You don’t. And those skills were so kitten powerful they changed the balance of PvE completely. I mean a lot. Far more than ascended gear will affect this game.

But that was okay because that was skill grind, not gear grind.

That’s the difference. Skill grind > Gear grind. Skill grind is something meaningful, unlocking new skills the more you play and consequently allowing you to play in a more diverse and exciting way, developing your own new strategies etc.

Gear grind on the contrary means that you get a new set with your current stats + x, not really making any changes, except that you do more damage according to the stats, which is not even necessary because they can just make the monsters a little bit easier so you don’t need the + x gear (in this case ascended).

Except that the skill grind made more of an effect on power creep than this gear grind does, and power creep is one of the big bug bears of gear grind systems. The PvE content under skill grind got laughably easy, even with 3 heroes and 4 henchmen.

Meaningful is a funny word. A new skill that’s so powerful you have to keep it on your skill bar or be at a disadvantage isn’t better than a few stats that don’t add up to much. To me, ascended gear is far more easily ignored.

Are you serious?
First: You are talking about PvE-only skills.
Second: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/%22Save_Yourselves!%22 Grinding it from rank 0 to rank 12 = 4s to 6s. OMG crazyness, you clearly HAVE TO USE this kind of OP skills and grind for them.
Third: There were SO MANY skills that those you’re pointing out were not necessarly the best ones, although I do not deny they were very popular, but with so many choices you could have avoided the “pseudo-grind” if you were smart enough.
Think at the first invincimonk, was there a grind to be a 55hp? No, the guy who came out with that idea was just thinking outside the box.
In gw1 with creativity you could overcome any trouble.
In gw2 the build system is (still) too limited, the equip system make sense just for the legendaries (thanks to the switch), and more importantly, while you wear exo even if you’re smart you can’t be more proficient than another smart guy who is equipped with an ascended set.

Exactly these skills were only useable in PvE, so they made 0% impact in PvP, while ascended are useable in PvP. As Erick points out the progression in Guild Wars 1 came through creating your own builds and using them in your own way to win. That is something different completely from P2W-gear like Ascended.

Months on end people have been complaining about GW2 and it’s excessive attention to grinding. I found this quote on MMORPG.com (see below) and it really touches the point. Instead of playing the game, people play numbers. Let me elaborate.

WvW:

• Farm player kills (3476/250.000), you are one kill closer to “Ultimate Dominator”, and will reach this title in approximately 35 years.
• Farm badges
• Farm dolyak kills
• Farm rare/exotic drops

• Instead of enjoying the world, enjoying battle scenes, enjoying advanced tactics, enjoying teamplay…

PvE:

• Farm champions for rare/exotic drops that will bring you 20s-300s closer to a legendary weapon. Congratulations you still have 1.066 exotic drops to go and about 30.000 champion kills.
• Farm dungeons for tokens, to salvage rares, that you then sell on the tp for money.
• Farm achievements, because you then get 2 gold for 500 achievement points that took you 2 weeks to gather!! OMG.
• Farm Living story – cause everyone does it and I need materials so I can buy the +1 ascended gear, because the stats are 10% better, but why do we need them if the bosses are just scaled with exotic armour?
• Farm explorable maps, because then you are one heart closer (heart being kill 30x and gather 20x) to map completion!!

• Instead of enjoying the exploration itself, having fun fighting hard mobs etc.

SPvP:

• Farm hot-join matches or tournaments, for glory, so you get a virtual rank 45 that actually doesn’t give you anything.

• Instead of dueling for fun etc.

Is the whole GW2 community who goes along with this kittened or is that just my opinion?

Originally posted by Fishu

Originally posted by Bananaramaa

Roll on to GW2 and every area just feels the same. Quick finish and pass by to next area, rinse and repeat till level 80.

I agree. When I was playing and leveling my toon in GW2 . I actually was more focused on the map and the dot of my character and not the environment itself. Just focusing of where my character was going and not what I was doing. My character dot on the world map was my environment 50 % of the time.
Grinding has it’s flaw of course, but it’s forced people to group together and work together. Not in some ‘’public group’’ , but in private group where you had to talk to other human being. That how camaraderie started and guild were formed. In today mmorpg, I just don’t care. Everyone want to do their own little thing and move on to the next zone the fastest possible so I do the same and get bored very quickly. GW2 world was emptier than DAOC. Since I did not care about it, I just cared about the experience I gained in it.
Older mmorpg like daoc and UO had a great community because players felt they were being part of it New MMORPG are all ’’MEMEME’’ and ’’NOWNOWNOW’’. It’’s reflect well the hyper-individualist culture of North America. Not caring about the people, but where you’re heading.
Thing with new mmorpg is .. You’re so spammed with quest that you don’t care anymore. They should do something more like a chainable quest with other area to explore rather than exclamation point everywhere making you lose interest in the environment and others player.

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Guild Wars 1 had skill grind. Every time a new product game out, there were new skills to acquire. Take the skill Save Yourselves. A perfectly innocuous skill, until you realized that your paragon imbagon build was completely dependent upon it and that you couldn’t get into a DOA group if it wasn’t high enough.

That was a Luxon/Kurzick skill which had 12 ranks. Look up FFF in the Guild Wars 1 wiki for instructions on how to fast faction farm. People farmed those points forever, to get skills like that up.

The necromancer skill necrosis from NF was also like that. You want that skill more powerful you have to grind Sunspear points. Technobabble, pain inverter, the sin skill which the permasin build depended on, the norn skill ursan, which people wanted you to have rank 8 or higher in their norn title track.

It’s the same thing here. Do you NEED ascended gear to play this game? No. You don’t. And those skills were so kitten powerful they changed the balance of PvE completely. I mean a lot. Far more than ascended gear will affect this game.

But that was okay because that was skill grind, not gear grind.

That’s the difference. Skill grind > Gear grind. Skill grind is something meaningful, unlocking new skills the more you play and consequently allowing you to play in a more diverse and exciting way, developing your own new strategies etc.

Gear grind on the contrary means that you get a new set with your current stats + x, not really making any changes, except that you do more damage according to the stats, which is not even necessary because they can just make the monsters a little bit easier so you don’t need the + x gear (in this case ascended).

50% sits in LA afk, 50% zergs/farms/grinds. That’s GW2 right now.

People … it’s time to say farewell to Guild Wars 2. Tag me if you know another good f2p mmorpg to play instead (i’m 100% serious, can’t keep up with this grinding crap forever).

Sollith.3502:

Yay for the gear treadmill; so excited…. can we rename the game Grind Wars now?

Personally, I don’t see the point in power creeps, especially when stats are scaled to the zone you are occupying.

We can. Does anyone know a good f2p mmo to play instead of gw2? Been searching but can’t find any at this moment (only some coming out next year).

I’ll try this patch, but if it is as grindy as the rest of the patches, I’m quitting again.

I think not. Pay2win anyone?

Harbard.5738:

I can’t believe the OP was infracted for his post… He’s right. They’re unplugging one hole to plug another one. How long until the lack of class/build variety makes people like us quit or at least quit playing WvW ot just stop taking it seriously altogether?

ANet had a very fun and alt-friendly game in WvW. It had a lot of varied gameplay with different builds within those alts as well. The game didn’t get old bc you weren’t locked to your best equipped char or “main”. Because they could all have top gear and be all “mains” and you could focus in having fun instead of getting gear.

Now it’s kittened. You’ll have to chose one character and one build to be top of your game while your other chars and builds are subpar. Do you even want to play with a subpar char/build? or even grind all that nonsense for BiS in your now forced main?

That’s the way Anet works nowadays. Someone tells the truth and it doesn’t fit in with their prospects… they try to discredit that someone. It’s all going to waste.

EpicHedgehog.1754:

80ppl = my CPU melted…Please ANET, before you do this, optimise the game so it uses more of our video cards and less from our CPU, or we will watch some kind of powerpoint slideshow of Tequatl when we fighting it!

More likely Black & White. Black every time the game shuts down, white everytime your screen freezes. :P

VIVA LA REVOLUCION.

Or in other words… join the club of people who loved GW2 and got betrayed by Anet who loves grinding and made GW2 into WoW instead.

I agree. No LS pls, it is such a weak disguise for carrot/stick.

Condas.7056:

byjiang.1260:

I was farming Dunwell (RIP mate) when I thought, well, what am I going to do with all the gold? Errr…buy skins I guess.

Then what? Jump around in LA?

And I stopped playing.

I think I am about 2 steps away from this. I stopped today and started thinking about where the game was supposed to go and where it did go. Realized the game has turned into something I don’t enjoy. I may stick around to help my wife get Dusk (the last thing she needs for Twilight) and call it for the time being. I will likely monitor the changes, but unless a significant change happens, I wont likely come back. Especially with the list of sandbox mmos coming out in the near future.

I stopped over 3 weeks ago. Haven’t logged in since and I don’t feel any reason to do so. Instead I’m having fun playing games like “The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot”, (totally epic!!!!!!)

Lothirieth.3408:

Malthurius.6870:

I don’t understand why people in GW2 feel the need to “check the list” and “grind and farm” things when the things they’re farming for are completely and utterly superficial and trivial in the grandscheme of playing the game. Why would you do any of it if you don’t enjoy doing it when the rewards are just cosmetic/fun/ect and have no bearing on seeing content in the game?

Cosmetic rewards and APs are pretty much all there is to work for at end game. (though the gear treadmill will be expanded next week ofc.)

I say… change that. End-game should consist out of more than skins and meaningless number scores. GW1 had end-game in the form of epic PvP (with a large variety in different modes). Other possible end-game is a dynamic world that changes all the time (dynamic events, but on a more drastic scale), not living story (living story hardly impacts the world).

GW1 did add more worthwhile content as Traveller says, even though OP left some GW2 changes out. :P

marnick.4305:

Rather silly to claim your data to be 100% true and correct when everyone knows there’s three kinds of lies:
Lies, kitten lies and statistics.

The data is true for the people who voted. Every question had the same answer options (fun-boring-grindy-zergy-memorable-repetitive-impact-no impact-no opinion and optionally another choice). On top of that every question was formulated the same way. I didn’t force anyone to vote what I wanted or whatever you claim. The graphics are made through excel, using the exact data from the surveys.
The survey might not be representative for the whole of the game, which I didn’t deny, but it does give an idea as to what the people on this forum think at least.

Sorry mate, nice try but you failed pretty bad here. I’ve read your posts, and if there’s one guy out here that is a hater, it’s you. Please don’t talk nonsense about what other people do, unless you know what you’re talking about.

Excuse me for this little personal reply which is totally off-topic. Just wanted to set this guy’s crap facts straight.

+1 aswell, not color-blind, but I can totally understand how you feel.

No harm done. Discuss along. Would just be nice if ArenaNet itself held a community-wide survey that everyone was forced to fill in. Saves us all the work :P

Well it just isn’t possible to let everyone respond. There are always people with a variety of reasons not to respond:
- no time
- no interest
- countered against a certain subject

I understand it if you didn’t take part, but you could just have followed your own opinions and responded to Living Story being fun, I wouldn’t mind at all, in fact it would make the survey more truthful.
If all those who think my set-up is ment to disgrace Living Story do not answer, there wouldn’t be anyone who responded “fun” for LS. This isn’t the case, and I respect people who do like it as much as others, cause it might very well have happened that more people responded to Living Story as fun (if, as you imply, everyone who is pro-LS didn’t vote). If Living story came out more positive than other elements I would cheer it on, cause that would mean ArenaNet is going in the right direction.

However, the survey results have clearly showed that most people (who voted) dislike zerg/grind and like more unique content (such as Jumping Puzzles). This is not something exclusive to Living Story alone, but also hits Large scale WvW and World Bosses very hard.

Vayne.8563:

I saw your survey and chose not to participate in it. Without going into great detail, I thought it was set up to get certain responses. Sometimes, how you ask the questions is how you get the answers.

And since I’m more positive and chose not to respond due to the nature of the poll, I’m not sure what that says about your poll results.

Points in a certain direction?! Every question had the same options and was asked the same way, nobody got forced to press grindy instead of fun, so I don’t know what you are talking about.

Sure, the purpose was to see if anyone actually liked certain other parts of the game more than Living story. The conclusion is, yes they do. That’s not something I could have influenced however much I had tried and I assure you I didn’t forge the results. As such the survey is unambiguous and I can only express my sadness at you for taking that view and not participating, not that it really matters if it’s only 1 person. Non-response bias I guess.

Criticism can be good or bad :P

What would you people think about me making a real survey for this, which will allow us to analyse the results afterwards? Here’s an earlier survey I have held: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Survey-Scores-of-GW2-FINAL-VERSION/first#post2732174

Vayne, I think you are wrong in thinking this:

Vayne.8563:

“I think most people that don’t like the game have left already (just like every other game) and have moved on.”.

It isn’t because some of us are rather negative towards certain aspects of the game, that we dislike the game in total. Some parts of it still are extremely invigorating and delightful and make the game worthy of our attention. However, the maiority of the posts here focus on changing the game, not on destroying it.

Vayne.8563:

If you really don’t like the game, and you know where the game is going (because you’ve been told) why are you still here posting?

We’re posting here (I am in any case) because we think we can actually change the way the game works into a system that will ensure player loyalty (= good for Anet) and fun for the player (= good for the player). The point is that if the biggest share of the players disagrees with where the game is going, ArenaNet has a motive to change their game, without loss of pride. They can make this game so much better by changing the focus of the game towards non-grind.

Vayne.8563:

But what we do have is a group of less than a dozen people who post in every positive and every negative thread, making it look like there’s this huge wave of discontent with the game.

Do we? The survey I held shows that only 37,11% of the players who voted on it (the total of voters was way more than 12 xD) think Living Story fun, whereas 49,48% voted it as grindy.

Evans.6347:

I’m confused by the reaction to this.
Obviously a lot of work and effort was put into this, but the value of those results is highly questionable.

At best this somewhat shows the opinion of a fraction of the most vocal forum users.

Of course it isn’t a representation of the whole gaming community. That would be near impossible to obtain due to various factors such as [~forum posting/forum posting][age][~time/time][~interest/interest], but my survey is based on the expectation that the number of people who post on forums with certain opinions (pro-LS/contra-LS) are in the same proportion as people who don’t post on forums but play the game/have played the game.

I don’t think everyone who writes on the forum is by definition a hater who doesn’t like Guild Wars 2 and wants to destroy the game. I’m fairly certain the number who posts on the forum and likes the game is bigger actually, since you need to have bought the game for posting on this forum.

Still… there is no 100% guarantee that the number of players who filled this survey aren’t by chance (highly improbable) all haters. You do see my point I hope. :P

It does show for certain that for forum posters (who might just be loyal players) the maiority is not a big fan of Living Story and certainly doesn’t categorize it as one of the most fun parts of the game.

Hey all, I held a survey and finished it yesterday (with a variety of questions about the different game aspects). The data has been collected and uploaded to this forum thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Survey-Scores-of-GW2-UPDATED-DAILY/first#post2729450) aswell as a number chart.

Here it is, hope it helps you discuss things and helps Anet to see the player’s wishes.

Updated for the last time. The top post now holds the final results, as well as the number charts.

Hello everyone. I have lately held a survey on this matter and here is a spreadsheet detailing everything. The results are correct and the data hasn’t been manipulated in any way. Want to check the survey data anyway? Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Survey-Scores-of-GW2-UPDATED-DAILY/first#post2729450

Please discuss

Another one showing the scores from WvW.

Here are some first graphics, about the “fun” scores. These charts were created using the numbers obtained from the survey, also taking the “no opinion (haven’t tried)” answer option into account.

This option excluded every other answer option and only people who didn’t check “no opinion” were taken into account. For example 36% of the people thought living story fun. 3% of the survey fillers didn’t have an opinion on it. Consequently I scaled the 36% to 97% (100%-3%). 37,11% of the people who answerred that particular question found living story fun. This information as a context why some of the numbers used in graphics are not equal to the ones in the complete test results I will paste below.

Keep the “no opinion” percentage in mind! High percentage means a big chunk of people didn’t have an opinion on the question. In that case you have to calculate the actual percentage of fun, grindy,… by using following formula:

listed percentage/(100-percentage NO)

cesmode.4257:

Interesting to see that more people find Living Story to be grindy, zergy, boring, and no impact…vs Fun and impactful.

What is the sample size? How many different surveys completed?

I just checked and 100 surveys completed at this moment. Thank you everyone for being so helpful! I will get to work clarifying and maybe adding some graphics to compare different statistics.

I would also like to add that the maximum number of surveys SurveyMonkey allows to free users is 100. This means any surveys that get completed from now on won’t help for the results and consequently will be a waste of your time. Thank you!

[YOU CAN COMMENT ON RESULTS BELOW]

ShadowPuppet.3746:

At this stage in the game I actually refuse to take part in any thing zerg related even though it will keep me relatively “poor”, it’s the only way Anet will get the idea this is not what many people enjoy, they just do it mostly out of fear of falling behind. So to any players that may read this and agree, speak with actions and not with words…take a stand for what you like VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

WOHOOO. GATHER ROUND SYMPATHIZERS!

Traveller.7496:

Robert Hrouda leaving and comment about the last content he made suggests to me not all of ANet is seeing eye to eye about this Living Story either. We can only hope the opposing force eventually wins and we see quality content (and not simply lose them to other companies).

We can hope that. He didn’t seem very happy about the living story.

marnick.4305:

Gehenna.3625:

marnick.4305:

Everyone knew this was advertisement but let’s be clear. If you expected anything different from advertisements, you are terribly naive.

To be honest, I don’t remember any of the games I played making quite such a numbers display as Anet have done here in preparation of their China offensive.

Sure, companies may at times indicate sales numbers but I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of the games I played before make such a hoopla about it.

Maybe you have different experiences.

Personally when I see numbers I want facts and context so I can weigh the value of these numbers. Advertising like this obviously doesn’t give you that context.

People are talking. Obviously it works.

The lack of context can be easily interpreted by anyone with a brain.

People are pointing at the weak points. So no it doesn’t work. And it only shows that ArenaNet isn’t interested in making fair game, instead trying to get as many players on the boat, even if they lie to them outright.

Vayne.8563:

While you might not be saying the game is dead, plenty of people have. It’s not a long stretch to associate it with the haters (which I never felt you were one of anyway).

On the topic of story, I’m pretty sure most MMO players don’t give a rat’s kitten about stories. Most of them skip cut scenes. They’re not interested. I am, but I’ve always known I was the exception to the rule.

You make it sound as if the majority want story. The majority seem to want loot. I think it’s a very sad state, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

In a perfect world Anet would be able to provide the story and experience I want, and the types of things others want…but it’s not a perfect world.

But I do think a lot of people do like the living story. Anet doesn’t go by what you say or what I say or what they forum says. They look at the number of people logging in and playing content.

Really the only way to vote is to not log in and not play content.

It seems to me plenty of people are coming in for these 2 week updates and doing the content. As long as that keeps happening, the game will be successful, no matter how many people say they don’t like it.

Hey Vayne I don’t know if you actually support the view that people here are “hating” (lol) but I’ll try to reply as if you were (do not take this personally).
People saying the game is dead are obviously wrong, but people who say the game might be very close to dying are not wrong at all, due to a lot of missed opportunities and extremely bad managing on Anets part.

We (by we I mean the forum posters) are not the only people in the game experiencing the issue of “why do we actually still play if it’s not fun?”. My guild is a very successful one in the game with 50+ people online daily out of 120-ish members. And yet the last weeks a lot of posts have popped up about “silence in guild chat due to farming”, “lack of fun/joking”, “nobody willing to help anymore”, ’nobody does anything else than farming anymore" and a lot more of similar topics.

This means the problem isn’t one that is experienced by a small share of the players, it means it is one experienced by many. ArenaNet is trying to cover that feeling by continuously adding new “content” (Living story is hardly that) which provides new farm/grind options and new cosmetic rewards, functioning as a stick and carrot.

I believe story isn’t completely essential to having fun, but it does take the stress away from money. The story does give rewards in the form of personal feel of achieving something, living yourself out and so on. Other elements in the game are able to deliver that feel, such as exploring a hard dungeon and succeeding, finding a chest at the end with some completely random loot (maybe something good, most probably garbage, but it still feels good!), or getting to the top of a hard jumping puzzle and seeing the world from the top… etc. Story background creates a context for this.

Right now Living Story is a kittentail with following ingredients:

• Farm Method
• Farm Reward
• Story

The story however is so weak that it barely conceals the fact that arenanet is just throwing a random item at you and asking you: play (=farm) for 1 week more and you can have it! People finally see this and ask themselves “why are we doing this?”, cause it’s quite obviously a trap to make you play the game. That’s why we are not haters, but people who are discussing an existing problem, which will possibly rob Anet of a large chunk of their playerbase (not completely unjustified).

@ Klaw. There are 3 pages
@ Sitkaz.
- that would be yes
- small scale (= groups of less than 10 people), large scale (= usually zergs)
- impact on the world

The “no opinion” option usually is mutually exclusive with all the others, meaning that these are people who either do not play that element of the game or do not have a specific opinion on them. Consequently we have to extrapolate the other scores on the number of player who didn’t click “no opinion”. For Hot-join for example 57,5% do not have an opinion on the game element. This means 42,5% does have an opinion.
Out of these 42,5% 17,5% enjoys doing Hot-join, so that means a score on 100% of 41,18% who does enjoy doing Hot-join out of those who have voted. Please keep this in mind while reading the poll results!

MrRuin.9740:

Ravenmorghane.9287:

So really it boils down to one query from me:
If this game is really so bad then why are you people still playing ? It makes the forums less enjoyable for players like me who genuinely like the game.

I continue to post here because I hope for better things for it. IMO, it has a lot of potential that’s just going to waste. I’m hoping to see that potential fulfilled.

The exact same reason why I comment here.

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

No endgame August 28th 2012, no endgame August 29th 2013.

The best reason to play in my opinion. This is what makes this game better than every other MMO. Thank you so much for sharing this positive opinion.

Lol. In my opinion there shouldn’t even be a distinction between end-game and pre-end-game. Dynamic events are part of pre-end-game but they could actually be a great end-game part, if they enhanced them so they really did affect the world. More about this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Living-world-What-it-should-be/first#post2722439