Guild Wars 2

Crovax.7854:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Crovax.7854:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I only unload my goods when the timing is right. If I know prices are falling, I need to act fast so I get the most Gold. If there are people willing to take it, I give it to them. Though I do admit that sometimes I do it so fast, that I make mistakes and unload the wrong goods. That leaves me embarrassed and feeling shameful.

So… um, if someone wanted to get a shield skin as cheap as possible, when would be the best time to buy one? :>

With the current pattern we see on the market, the best time would be in the middle of when an event item is released. For instance, if a limited edition item is released during a 1 month LS arc, wait for two weeks before placing an order. Items are usually high priced when they first come out, and high priced towards the end of an event due to speculations.

But if they re-release an item (i.e. Monocle), then you’re out of luck if the prices drop after you made a purchase.

Yeah but isn’t it also true that at the end of an event the prices go down massively again due to people dumping their supplies?

Yes and no. Take the Chaos of Lyssa for example. Prices were high due to limited supply, dropped when Anet increase the supply, and raised again after the event was over (since they wouldn’t drop anymore). Some items do drop in value and stay low, like the Lovestruck weapon skins.

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Rouven.7409:

You guys argue about concepts, not facts.

I feel transported back into philosophy class, if a tree falls in the woods and no one heard it, did it make a noise?

The Geico commercial I saw last week had the tree screaming for help. So yes, the tree does make a noise. Tree falling

Side note – my arguments are actually based on the fact that an individual’s time has no monetary value. There are only a few exception to this rule, as has been debated in this thread.

your time in this game, that you use to get gems does have a monetary value, i can tell you right now.
right now, if you can make 10 gold an hour, the value of your time, as defined by anets money machine is. $1.50 an hour
1 gold cost 15 cents.

every person who can make 10 gold an hour, and changes that 1 hours worth of gold to gems gets anet 1.50 cents. Thats money they only get because people are willing to sell their time to anet.

so yeah, your time making gold isnt worth very much, unless you are a tp overlord, but it is worth something.

Point is, anet has already monetized your time, this is not a case of your time has no value unless you are at work. You are at work, you just didnt know it. You are on the videogame “toilet” making money for anet when you sell gold.

its not indirect, its as direct as a gold selling company making money off people they make farm money for them (back in the day before it was all bots)

Huge flaw to your argument. Time & Gold does not equal money. Anet isn’t paid when you exchange your Gold for Gems. That’s not how microtransactions work with MMOs. If no one spent any additional money outside of box sales of the game, this game would slowly die, as new box sales cannot be expected to remain constant. The revenue NCSoft gets is from players who pay for extras via Gem purchases. What they do with the Gems after the purchase doesn’t matter. The transaction was completed, and Gems delivered to the player who paid for them. Once the Gems are sold, they have no value to them, as per the User Agreement:

4. ACCOUNT AND PAYMENTS TO NCSOFT
(d) Gems
(vii) You acknowledge that Gems are digital material with no cash value

Crovax.7854:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I only unload my goods when the timing is right. If I know prices are falling, I need to act fast so I get the most Gold. If there are people willing to take it, I give it to them. Though I do admit that sometimes I do it so fast, that I make mistakes and unload the wrong goods. That leaves me embarrassed and feeling shameful.

So… um, if someone wanted to get a shield skin as cheap as possible, when would be the best time to buy one? :>

With the current pattern we see on the market, the best time would be in the middle of when an event item is released. For instance, if a limited edition item is released during a 1 month LS arc, wait for two weeks before placing an order. Items are usually high priced when they first come out, and high priced towards the end of an event due to speculations.

But if they re-release an item (i.e. Monocle), then you’re out of luck if the prices drop after you made a purchase.

Colin is hiding something from us. Even the Devs I play with in game aren’t talking. Hmmmmmmmmmm…

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A = B, B = C, therefore A = C is not a mathematical formula that I’m trying to use, mate. To further my explanation, I’ll use the following:
A = Sky
B = Blue
C = Ocean
The Sky is Blue. The Ocean is Blue. Therefore the Sky is the Ocean.

Nerelith’s fallacy is that he’s saying that Dr. Castronova believes the above to be true. It’s far from it. The real problem here is that Nerelith doesn’t understand the purpose of Dr. Castronova’s paper. He sees a smart man saying things, and misapplies them to something completely different. I could quote Einstein’s theory of relativity, but that does nothing to help my uncle reconnect with my aunt.

dodgycookies brought up a good point, that ties into my previous argument. Time does not equal Money, unless you can tie a money making opportunity to it. If I sit on the toilet for 8 hours while I’m at work, indeed those 8 hours were the monetary equivalent of my salary. But if I did that at home, those hours spent on the toilet at home is worth nothing.

These are not opinions, but hard facts. Converting Gold to Gems is free, at the cost of your Time (which as no monetary value).

Game. Set. Match.

the sky isnt blue
a proper understanding of the relationship would be
skys color is blue
oceans color is blue
oceans color is equal to skys color.

but even by your own understanding/relationships

your time is money, anet has figured out how to convert your time to money.
every time you sell your gems, the time money transference machine activates, and anet has turned your ingame time to real hard, usable money. This is not really a new conversion, it was known to exist since people were selling items on the net in EQ and ultima online.

you gold->gem sellers are basically just gold sellers who work for anet, and all the time you spend is money for anet.

anet is the one who has figured out how to monetize your time playing the game, and in doing so they have cemented the time/money relationship.

yes even things you do for free, or dont realize have value, can have value. and in a monetary system that is doing its job, anything of value can be represented by money (though they do not always achieve this)

My time is worth money to Anet, because I actually buy Gems again and again. Anet makes no money if a player exchanges in game Gold for Gems.

As for time having monetary value, that can happen in the course of working a paying job. But in the sense of playing GW2 and converting Gold into Gems, that exchange is still free since you didn’t pay for it.

If you dont think people who create a good you can sell to other people arent making you money, i dont know what to tell you.

Anet makes money when you sell your gold, because they sell it to other players. If you did not create this gold, they could not sell it to other players.

I am a candy salesman, i find out there is demand for kids paintings. If i have kids making kid paintings, i sell for 5 dollars each, and i pay them in candy, their time, is my money. The more kids i have the more product i have to sell.
These kids time has a monetary value to me, i make money off of them.

I can now make money off of people who have no interest in candy, but do have interest in kids paintings. Those kids time, is money to me.

this is similar to the relationship of gold/gems gold ->gem sellers.

The Gem Exchange makes no money for Anet. It’s a convenience that allows us to access virtual currencies for either Gold -> Gems or Gems -> Gold. The money comes from players like me who actually purchase Gems with my creditcard or store bought Gem cards.

As as for your example, that doesn’t apply to this issue. You’re describing a situation where the children’s time now has a monetary value, because the paintings were made during the course of employment. So the paintings were not “free” for you. This actually ties into my arguments made previously.

Again, I’ll repeat this fact – exchanging Gold for Gems is free.

Rouven.7409:

You guys argue about concepts, not facts.

I feel transported back into philosophy class, if a tree falls in the woods and no one heard it, did it make a noise?

The Geico commercial I saw last week had the tree screaming for help. So yes, the tree does make a noise. Tree falling

Side note – my arguments are actually based on the fact that an individual’s time has no monetary value. There are only a few exception to this rule, as has been debated in this thread.

I only unload my goods when the timing is right. If I know prices are falling, I need to act fast so I get the most Gold. If there are people willing to take it, I give it to them. Though I do admit that sometimes I do it so fast, that I make mistakes and unload the wrong goods. That leaves me embarrassed and feeling shameful.

So you wish to suggest a mechanic that prevents players from enjoying content? Why punish a server because another one has no desire to join the map? This game isn’t just about you mate. If one side has 80 players, and the other side has 10, that’s their choice.

Nerelith.7360:

You are so far behind , you think you’re ahead. Racing metaphor, to match your Tennis metaphor.

You are entrenched in your opinion. That does not make your opinion true.

When an individual is engaged in an activity, whether that activity is done for fun, or to earn cash, if the fruits of that activity can be exchanged for goods and Services that have a real world value, then whether or not they intended to earn money for that activity is irrelevant.

The fact that they can put X number of hours into Activity A, get compensated for the activity by some virtual currency B, and then exchange the currency for Virtual Item or Service C, that someone else could have obtained by paying $Y dollars USD, means that in the time that the player spent just involvd in an activity, recreational or otherwise,…. had value = to $Y.

Imagine you enjoy painting. And you get some oils, and start doing your paint thing simply out of pure pleasure. You hang the painting on your wall. And a friend comes by, says " WoW I really like that painting…I’ll pay you $10,000 for it." You sell the painting for $10,000. you did not get $10,000 for free. You earned it by painting the painting. That you did not believe at the time you were involved in work, does not matter. That it was done for recreation does not matter.

The ONLY way that the $10,000 you recieved would have been free is if the guy had just GIVEN you $10,000 as a gift.

I can understand that you are entrenched in your position, I can also understand that you are sincere in your beliefs. But You being entrenched and repeating yourself endlessly, does not make you right, and doesn’t turn your opinions to fact.

BTW if A=B and B=C, then A=C. IS a mathematical law. Nothing fallacious about it.

As Phys said, my position may or may not be an adequate representation of If A = B, and B=C, then A=C, but that doesn’t turn a law of mathematics into " fallacy."

The issue is that you are not using it correctly. It’s More Like….

“If the Note that eminating from my Guitar = High C, and the note emanating from my voice = High C, then The note emanating from my guitar = the note emanating from my voice.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130216123245AA1bCCU

PS: I used Castronova’s paper because castronova has assigned a GNP to Norrath, which is hard to do if players playing lacks monetary value.

PPS: It’s She, Not He.

/sigh

Again, your points are based on a fallacy: Affirming the consequent

Time has no monetary value, unless it’s the time in which monetary value is assigned. To simplify this, the 8 hours you spend working on a job is now assigned a monetary value. 8 hours playing on your computer at home has none.

Now you could make the argument that you’re self-employed, and therefore you work at home. But in that case, your income doesn’t come from a video game. It comes from something that others pay you for, be it as an at-home stock trader, or an entrepreneur who makes stuff animals for sale at the local flea market. Your time now has value added.

It’s interesting that you’re trying to use musical notes as a way to support your argument. Do realize that the notes that come from your guitar, piano, or even flute, are all the same as the notes you sing. Should I decide to go and sing my tenor part of Ave Maria, and play the same parts on my guitar, there would be harmony. The time you spent farming for Gold is not the same as the time you spent working your day job. So again, Time spent has no monetary value, but rather a perceived personal one. Would you have better spent it read a book? Or perhaps cooking dinner? Maybe it would have been better to wash the car on that beautiful sunny day. That is the true value of your Time.

One more thing, Dr. Castronova’s work is all theory, using assumptions to support his findings. My arguments are based on reality, so you can’t dispute these facts.

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A = B, B = C, therefore A = C is not a mathematical formula that I’m trying to use, mate. To further my explanation, I’ll use the following:
A = Sky
B = Blue
C = Ocean
The Sky is Blue. The Ocean is Blue. Therefore the Sky is the Ocean.

Nerelith’s fallacy is that he’s saying that Dr. Castronova believes the above to be true. It’s far from it. The real problem here is that Nerelith doesn’t understand the purpose of Dr. Castronova’s paper. He sees a smart man saying things, and misapplies them to something completely different. I could quote Einstein’s theory of relativity, but that does nothing to help my uncle reconnect with my aunt.

dodgycookies brought up a good point, that ties into my previous argument. Time does not equal Money, unless you can tie a money making opportunity to it. If I sit on the toilet for 8 hours while I’m at work, indeed those 8 hours were the monetary equivalent of my salary. But if I did that at home, those hours spent on the toilet at home is worth nothing.

These are not opinions, but hard facts. Converting Gold to Gems is free, at the cost of your Time (which as no monetary value).

Game. Set. Match.

the sky isnt blue
a proper understanding of the relationship would be
skys color is blue
oceans color is blue
oceans color is equal to skys color.

but even by your own understanding/relationships

your time is money, anet has figured out how to convert your time to money.
every time you sell your gems, the time money transference machine activates, and anet has turned your ingame time to real hard, usable money. This is not really a new conversion, it was known to exist since people were selling items on the net in EQ and ultima online.

you gold->gem sellers are basically just gold sellers who work for anet, and all the time you spend is money for anet.

anet is the one who has figured out how to monetize your time playing the game, and in doing so they have cemented the time/money relationship.

yes even things you do for free, or dont realize have value, can have value. and in a monetary system that is doing its job, anything of value can be represented by money (though they do not always achieve this)

My time is worth money to Anet, because I actually buy Gems again and again. Anet makes no money if a player exchanges in game Gold for Gems.

As for time having monetary value, that can happen in the course of working a paying job. But in the sense of playing GW2 and converting Gold into Gems, that exchange is still free since you didn’t pay for it.

phys.7689:

Rising Dusk.2408:

phys.7689:

so what you are saying is that if you enjoy your job, it is no longer a job, and has no value? hmm, i know people see things this way, but the fact that people do is what allows business men to profit. but ehh thats life

The key difference is that my high-paying job isn’t a recreational activity. Sure, I do enjoy it a lot, and it hardly feels like work, but there are expectations, obligations, and responsibilities that go with it being a job and not a hobby. I play GW2 for fun, and it has value strictly for that reason. Even if I made no gold from it, I’d still do it, so that I do make gold (which lessens the dollar cost of gem store items) is essentially free compensation. Does that distinction make sense? I hope I’ve helped clarify.

if by some odd way i could make an infinite engine, and doing so was completely based on me doing some incredibly fun activity. That engine would still have economic value.
If i make car, strictly for my own enjoyment, it still has economic value.

Even if i would do it for free, that doesnt change the value it generates.

It has economic value, because you had to purchase the parts from a manufacturer. So the car was not free.

A = B, B = C, therefore A = C is not a mathematical formula that I’m trying to use, mate. To further my explanation, I’ll use the following:
A = Sky
B = Blue
C = Ocean
The Sky is Blue. The Ocean is Blue. Therefore the Sky is the Ocean.

Nerelith’s fallacy is that he’s saying that Dr. Castronova believes the above to be true. It’s far from it. The real problem here is that Nerelith doesn’t understand the purpose of Dr. Castronova’s paper. He sees a smart man saying things, and misapplies them to something completely different. I could quote Einstein’s theory of relativity, but that does nothing to help my uncle reconnect with my aunt.

dodgycookies brought up a good point, that ties into my previous argument. Time does not equal Money, unless you can tie a money making opportunity to it. If I sit on the toilet for 8 hours while I’m at work, indeed those 8 hours were the monetary equivalent of my salary. But if I did that at home, those hours spent on the toilet at home is worth nothing.

These are not opinions, but hard facts. Converting Gold to Gems is free, at the cost of your Time (which as no monetary value).

Game. Set. Match.

This is why I unloaded all my Jade Tickets before the weapon prices dropped. In time, I’ll unload my Tormented as well.

Ohoni.6057:

~~~snip ~~~

The main issue here is that you think a “Group Event” is equivalent of “Solo Content”. GW2 allows you to play the game solo all you want, but if you want to succeed in “Group Content”, you need a Group to do it. Makes sense, no? The Great Wurm needs a group of organized players. So does Dry Top T4. So does RPing with the Tarnished Coast community.

Reality check time. MMOs are a social beast. Just because you don’t want to interact with others doesn’t mean they don’t exist. You have up to 149 other players on the same map as you whom you can’t control. If everyone wants to get to T4 level rewards, a large majority of them need to work together to meet the meta requirements. Until you realize this fact, you’ll probably have a hard time getting max rewards in this game.

DaveGan.8065:

Behellagh.1468:

a flipper

We are not talking about one single flipper, but a population of them. Reducing the expected cycles/transactions (in case you need a stat lesson, expected value is an weighted average and we are speaking in decimals, not whole numbers) an item goes through before becoming a final good would create lower average prices, as every cycle adds cost and inefficiency through the 15% TP tax.

The rest of your scenario is again irrelevant because you either chose not to read or decided deliberately to keep pushing your own narratives which are irrelevant to the discussion.

Just a fair warning, Behe is one of the economic minds in the BLTP forums. If you’re going to debate with him, be prepared to have a firm grasp on economics.

Nerelith.7360:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

phys.7689:

Actually nerelith is correct, in high end terms. currency that is doing its job is actually a measure of effort/skill/knowledge/time/value.

from a perspective, you may be right, time is not literally=money

however, from that same perspective, dusk is not literally gold.
If i find dusk, did i find gold? If i keep dusk have i saved gold?
did dusk have no value once i equip it?

its a matter of perspective in some respects.

but the truth of time is that all effort/skill/knowledge/ etc you use has a value, ultimately in an economic system, its currency.

the key is figuring out what the value of that time is, depending what you are doing in that time frame.

ultimately, in this situation, your time has a monetary value, for anet. Anet is makes a certain amount of money, by allowing you to sell the fruits of your time to someone who wants that product.

For the player, it has a monetary value in terms of how much money you save, through these actions, and depending on the person, how much money you could make with that same time applied to something else.

In general though, time is money. The people who stay rich figure out how to transform it most effeciently.

Ah, but again, the Time in question has no monetary value, unless it’s in the same place where opportunity allows you to convert that same Time into Money. Saving money by converting Gold to Gems does not then attach a monetary value to the Time it took to farm said Gold. I’m not here to say your time isn’t valuable, but rather your time is not worth any money. Again, the mistake is in the perception that Time = Valuable = Money. Ergo, converting Gold to Gems was a Free transaction. It’s a fallacy to assume A = B, B = C, so A = C.

Onto Dusk. Dusk has no value per se. It’s a virtual item, that’s wholly owned by Anet. You’re not allowed to sell it for real money, just as you’re not allowed to buy it with real money. Value, in this sense, is dependent on the individual player. Do I value it for the Gold I can get from other players? Do I value it for the Legendary weapon I can craft with it? Do I value it as bragging rights that I have something others desire?

A = B. A = B.

You are repeating your opinion. I understand your opinion, I happen to feel that some of your assumptions are faulty. We can agree to disagree, but it’s hard when you are going around declaring your opinion to be fact.

Someone with more economic knowledge than you has said that time and effort have monetary value. You disagree. Not the first time that someone says " My opinion is different than yours." the issue is, you are claming your opinions are fact.

You are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.

PS: You are wrong you are allowed to buy dusk with real money. Just Think about it for a sec.

Again, it’s a fallacy to assume A = B, B = C, so A = C. Dr. Castronova, as brilliant as he is, can easily make the argument that Time = Money. But as I’ve already debated and disproved this, that puts me on par with him. So I guess that’s a testament to my debate skills.

We’re talking about the perception of value. Time is valuable to all of us. We don’t live forever, so what finite lifespan we have, we should make the most of it. But again, just because I value my Time, doesn’t mean we can randomly assign a monetary value to it. One could argue that when we sleep, we’re losing money. One could argue that when we go to the bathroom, that’s losing money as well. But that’s silliness. We all know that there is no monetary value lost when sleeping or using the bathroom. Just as there’s no monetary value lost when we choose to farm for in-game Gold.

The argument about us saving money when converting Gold to Gems is a good one. Yes, you can indeed save money by converting Gold, rather than buying Gems outright. And for all the money you could save, you still can’t put a monetary value on the Time it took to farm. It’s not possible to say that the 8 hours I spend in Orr now has the equivalent value of buying 4,000 Gems. If you cherry pick which hours are assigned a monetary value, your whole argument is flawed to begin with.

In conclusion, Time can have a monetary value when it’s coupled with a money making opportunity (i.e. job). A = C only if that condition is met. Outside of that, converting Gold to Gems is free.

Wanze.8410:

Dreamslayer.7659:

Zenguy.6421:

Wanze,

Sorry if I missed it, but I don’t think you’ve answered my suggestion for Anet to take over flipping on the TP.

Anet could do the flipping far more efficiently than we can (always on-line, instant access to full market information, unrestricted ability to execute trades, able to sustain flipping at margins less than 15%, etc.) and instead of siphoning gold to a small portion of the player base, this would act as an even bigger gold sink than the 15% trading fees on their own, thereby further reducing inflation.

This seems to achieve everything you want from your proposal and does so in a way that increases (rather than decreases) the rate and efficiency of trades in the market (plus it acts as as even bigger gold sink with the corresponding deflationary benefits).

I’m struggling to see how your proposal would be better than that.

Your thoughts on this please, Wanze.

Yes, in this age of technology and automation, why not let robots take over the whole process of playing the TP and just do it on our behalf, distributing the profits fairly among everyone.

This has potential.

@Zenguy,

Maybe I am overseeing something or I dnt have a clear understanding of your proposal but I think this would easily be exploitable. Maybe try to explain a bit more in detail, how automated trading from Anet would work (how big are over/undercuts?).

Short example of a way of exploiting:

Item A cost 100g at lowest listing and 85g highest bid (because the Bot goes for the 15% spread). Lets assume, there are 10 more Item A listed, one each at 110g, 120g, 130g,…..up until 200g.

Now i buy out all 10 items valued from 100g-190g and the nlowest listing is 200g and the highest bid is still 85g. The bot would place a buy offer at 170g (85% of 200g), which i am happy to sell to and make a nice profit. Now Anet has an Item A, which it needs to sell, as it thrives for 15% pricespread, it will list it again at 100g, which I instantly buy again and to sell Anets new buy offer of 170g.

Rinse and Repeat.

The best part of this is that it wouldn’t be considered an “exploit”, since we’re just following the natural patterns of the item value.

Ohoni.6057:

And just like with the Great Wurm, the reward should be based on the wurm you’re fighting, and on how well you do at it, rather than on what people halfway across the map are up to.

And you do get rewarded for killing your wurm head. If the other groups don’t kill theirs, you get a nice Bronze or Silver chest. If you want the Gold chest + Mega chest at the end, then the map needs to down all three heads.

The weapons were released multiple times already, so we know they’ll show up again eventually.

Ohoni.6057:

But there should be. And again, your definition of “easy” is not the same one I’m using. I am NOT arguing that you should just be able to faceroll content, that it should not take effort, skill, and perhaps practice to be successful at it. What I am saying is that once you know everything there is to know, once you have YOUR skills on point, you should be able to engage the content, do your best, and win without a bunch of standing around or set-up hassles.

You’re mistaking the difference between solo content, and group content. If you have the skills to succeed at solo content (ala Liadri), then yes you deserve to be able to go in and succeed. But if you have the skills and knowledge to your part in Group content, now you’re just one piece of the puzzle. There is no “i” in team.

Just like with the Great Wurm. I know what to do, but I can’t go in by myself, and solo down all three wurms. You need people in the correct spots, who all know what to do.

I can get behind the GW1 District dropdown box idea. That’s the only difference between the current Megaservers, and GW1’s town districts.

Zenguy.6421:

Wanze,

Sorry if I missed it, but I don’t think you’ve answered my suggestion for Anet to take over flipping on the TP.

Anet could do the flipping far more efficiently than we can (always on-line, instant access to full market information, unrestricted ability to execute trades, able to sustain flipping at margins less than 15%, etc.) and instead of siphoning gold to a small portion of the player base, this would act as an even bigger gold sink than the 15% trading fees on their own, thereby further reducing inflation.

This seems to achieve everything you want from your proposal and does so in a way that increases (rather than decreases) the rate and efficiency of trades in the market (plus it acts as as even bigger gold sink with the corresponding deflationary benefits).

I’m struggling to see how your proposal would be better than that.

Your thoughts on this please, Wanze.

What you’re suggesting is turning the TP into a glorified Merchant, or as far as I understand it. Or are you trying to suggest an automated program that allows you to set Buy and Sell orders are predetermined prices?

Ohoni.6057:

You have an option of improving the OF you are in and bettering it for yourself and the others around you willing to stick around long enough to make it worth being a part of. Do this, and people will then flock to your OF.

If that actually worked for you then you were VERY lucky. Even on coordinated TTS runs, where they hand picked an empty map and stuffed it with their own people, they would tend to break down over time, going from gold runs to barely silver, to bad silver, a problem they could only solve by abandoning that map entirely and finding someplace else. If you were able to take a bronze map and whip all the players there into gold shape then you were lucky enough to end up on a bronze map with very unusually malleable and engaged players.

Honestly, I don’t mind working hard for the time that I play, but I do mind wasting time. I can’t play for 4+ hours per day most days, and solutions that involve “failing” for an hour or more to get things “into shape” don’t work for me. I want to be able to log in and instantly get started on a successful run. I’m willing to do my part to make that happen, to be working 100% of the time towards that goal, but if the content is designed in such a way that it takes a half hour or more of just standing around on the map to “get set up,” or if it requires repeatedly failing content for a half hour or more to “work the kinks out” each night, then I see that as being a content design failure. Assuming I know what I’m doing myself, I should be able to jump right in within minutes of logging in, and succeed on that very first run.

There is no high level content that you can just stroll in and complete that easily. Coordinating the timing and mechanics of events takes time. It’s fine that you know what to do, but you can’t control the other 149 people on the map. That’s why larger groups need to assign sub-leaders in different areas, and even sub-channels in voice-comms. The requirements for the highest tier rewards are set in stone. Miss one single event, and you only get T3.

Not wanting to take the time to coordinate is not a problem with the game, but rather a personal one. If you have limited time, just do whatever you can, and be rewarded with what you can get. So if T2, or T3 is all you can get in your map, be happy that you were rewarded with something. If you feel you deserve more, then set aside your personal issues with waiting. and prove you should get it by working with everyone else on the map.

Jerus.4350:

Saint.5647:

One day, while Crown Pavilion was active, my guildies and I were bored. We decided to host a Gold OF.

We did just that. For hours we tagged up and coordinated Gold-Run after Gold-Run.

OP is looking at this the wrong way. As if there are two options; you either get lucky with a Gold OF or you get unlucky in a non-Gold OF. It’s not the case at all and you present yourself as a helpless person devoid any drive.

You have an option of improving the OF you are in and bettering it for yourself and the others around you willing to stick around long enough to make it worth being a part of. Do this, and people will then flock to your OF.

Again your options are not (1) Be Lucky (2) Give up. There is always that option of (3) Fight for what you want. Of course C is harder so many feel content to blame their misfortune on their luck instead of taking some personal responsibility for their situation. No one owes you a Gold OF. The only one who really wants you to have one, is you….so go make it so.

My two cents on GW2 and life. Enjoy.

And if you can’t get your whole guild team into the map you’re on? Do you find a new one? What if after 30 mins of trying you find one but have 5 people unable to get in? do you keep trying or say “tough luck keep hitting join”?

What if a griefer comes in and continues to train one of the teams just for his own pleasure? How do you deal with that?

I’m all for the “put in the work” attitude, but there are very real issues that need to be resolved.

And thus we’re back at why the Megaserver mechanic is bad for coordinated group play. But the solution to that isn’t necessarily for Anet to offer private servers, as I’ve also stated. Since the Megaserver helps a vast majority of Casual players, we minority players with large coordinated groups need to live with it.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

f you want to control a market for more virtual currency than you can spend; play a stock market simulator, or EVE.

At least with GW2, you don’t lose all your Gold if a Dragon or another player blows up your airship.

AnAspieKitten.5732:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lasica.5068:

~~~ snip ~~~

I’m sorry, but all I’m hearing is “it’s too hard”.

Maybe you should work on your reading skills then. Denying his arguments without properly answering to them is of no interest.

“You must not understand the implications to what a “private map” would do. The whole reason for the private map or shard is to exclude players. "

You must not understand what “open world” means in ANet mouth, as they already explained their thinking.

Things lacking are basically a queue for joining / a guide (events shown on whole map, indicating number of people at the event, etc.). There is none of that. The event is not hard, it’s made hard. Completing it without proper tools and with tools so we could actually do something productive without needing a freaking teamspeak would be day and night. Plus it’s boring aswell since it requires you to complete it again and again for the rewards and the events in themselves are not quite fascinating.

But all you’ll read is it’s too hard

Perhaps you should comprehend the purpose of my post? I was saying that Anet would be against allowing private maps because it’s a way to exclude players from the “Open World” content. Your post is akin to a scientist arguing with a child that the speed of light is not instant, but rather has a defined speed.

Jerus.4350:

I feel like people exaggerate when they say that private maps would exclude people. CP had TTS creating a new teamspeak just for random people to organize runs. I’m not part of TTS but I used that channel to much success (outside of spending far too much time clicking “join pavillion”). Let players, guilds, and organizations work towards success, stop letting players get in the way of eachother, it’s annoying. THere’s already a philosophical divide, let us actually divide up between those who actively try to get into an organized situation and those who want to just do their own thing.

You must not understand the implications to what a “private map” would do. The whole reason for the private map or shard is to exclude players. Why would you pay money/Gems to have a personal map, only to open it to the public? If this were a TTS group, I would give preference to guildies first, meaning all pugs would be left out. Why? Because if you have 200+ TTS guildies wanting to do a map, and the map only has room for 150 players, there’s no room for everyone. That’s why Anet would probably not do personal shards, even though it would be profitable.

Oh, and having a Teamspeak server is not the same as having a server shard in game. Feel free to come into the TTS TS anytime though.

Wanze, before you expand on this suggestion, you need to first take a look at the acquisition method of your “white karma”. If the white karma is farmed like normal karma, that’s one thing. But if you allow the transfer or trading of white karma via Buy Orders, I can easily exploit this using two or more accounts. Just saying.

Ohoni.6057:

I know the air might be a bit thin on top of that high horse, but you’re missing the point. This isn’t about “it’s too hard.” Liadri is hard. Never managed to beat it. I’m fine with that, it’s a personal challenge and it’s hard, Fine. Nothing about gold blitz or T4 is particularly hard at all. I mean, some of the events are moderately challenging, but none that I would classify as “too hard.” The only difference between T2 and T4 on the Drytop map is not skill or effort, it’s just luck. Plain and simple luck. “Are you lucky enough to end up on a map with people who are willing and able to reach T4?” If yes, then you’ll get T4 easily enough. If not, then it’s impossible, no matter how awesome you are. There is no particular skill to the outcome, it’s random chance. You can no more reasonably say that Dry Top is “too hard” than you could say that coin flipping is “too hard” if you lose a flip. Nor can you reasonably claim to be awesome because you won the coin flip.

So if it’s not hard, why aren’t you getting T4 maps all the time? The only reason people complain is that they can’t get into a group that’s organized and knows what they’re doing. If you’re a solo player looking for a group, and the group already has 200 people trying to organize, I would say the priority goes to the group. If you manage to get into the map, great! If not, find another one or gather friends and guildies to try and start one yourself. As for the comparison between finding a good map and flipping a coin, that’s a bit much. You have no control over where the coin lands, where as you do have some control over which map your T4 group uses.

The only real issue is the Megaserver mechanics. This was one of the worst things Anet could have done in terms of coordinated group play. Megaservers help the Casual players, since they’re a majority of the playing population. If Anet were to try and solve this issue, they’d have to allow for personal server shards. The good thing is that the organized groups would benefit greatly with private maps. The huge downside to this is Anet would be allowing groups to exclude players from content. In that case, there’d be a lot more Casual players unable to do high tier events because a bulk of them will be in normal maps. I’m all for personal shards, but I doubt that’ll ever happen.

It’s not a true gift until each of those are built.

This isn’t an “Account Issue”, and this thread will be closed tomorrow.

I suggest that you go out and buy EOTN. It’s an excellent addition to attach to your GW1 account. Once you finish the GW1 storyline that gives you access to your Hall of Monuments, then you can link your GW1 to your GW2 account,.

Lasica.5068:

~~~ snip ~~~

I’m sorry, but all I’m hearing is “it’s too hard”. The game is designed to guide to through the story mode, and lead you through the important areas. The current design also informs you of dynamic events, and gives clues as to what you need to do to succeed. The game isn’t mean to guide you to the best rewards because it’s there. If your map doesn’t have the right people in the right place, who all know what they’re doing, then you don’t deserve the highest rewards.

Just like you don’t deserve a Tequatl kill just because he’s there. Just like you don’t deserve a Great Wurm kill just because he’s there.

Certain groups took the time to learn the mechanics of each event, and the requirements to win. The game is not broken simply because a bunch of organized players can do something an unorganized lot can’t do. On the contrary, this is working as intended. You want Gold/T4 rewards, everyone on the map needs to earn it.

phys.7689:

Actually nerelith is correct, in high end terms. currency that is doing its job is actually a measure of effort/skill/knowledge/time/value.

from a perspective, you may be right, time is not literally=money

however, from that same perspective, dusk is not literally gold.
If i find dusk, did i find gold? If i keep dusk have i saved gold?
did dusk have no value once i equip it?

its a matter of perspective in some respects.

but the truth of time is that all effort/skill/knowledge/ etc you use has a value, ultimately in an economic system, its currency.

the key is figuring out what the value of that time is, depending what you are doing in that time frame.

ultimately, in this situation, your time has a monetary value, for anet. Anet is makes a certain amount of money, by allowing you to sell the fruits of your time to someone who wants that product.

For the player, it has a monetary value in terms of how much money you save, through these actions, and depending on the person, how much money you could make with that same time applied to something else.

In general though, time is money. The people who stay rich figure out how to transform it most effeciently.

Ah, but again, the Time in question has no monetary value, unless it’s in the same place where opportunity allows you to convert that same Time into Money. Saving money by converting Gold to Gems does not then attach a monetary value to the Time it took to farm said Gold. I’m not here to say your time isn’t valuable, but rather your time is not worth any money. Again, the mistake is in the perception that Time = Valuable = Money. Ergo, converting Gold to Gems was a Free transaction. It’s a fallacy to assume A = B, B = C, so A = C.

Onto Dusk. Dusk has no value per se. It’s a virtual item, that’s wholly owned by Anet. You’re not allowed to sell it for real money, just as you’re not allowed to buy it with real money. Value, in this sense, is dependent on the individual player. Do I value it for the Gold I can get from other players? Do I value it for the Legendary weapon I can craft with it? Do I value it as bragging rights that I have something others desire?

Duke Nukem.6783:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Wanze.8410:

Duke Nukem.6783:

mtpelion.4562:

How about a compromise?

You can now buy the lowest listing (the undercutter) or the highest listing. The ones in the middle are still off limits until the ends have been bought out.

This lets you reward the only guy who didn’t undercut by buying his item first if you want to.

if we are going to allow that why not allow me to pick the one that didnt undercut by 1c, as iv said before undercutting is fine and natural and it has to be there, undercutting by 1c however….does NOT

Another shameless necro on a dead horse…

really? cuz we just started taking about compromise that sure sounds like progress to me, u mark my words anet will make a change to this feature someday and u can resist it all u want but it will come

No they won’t. We know this for a fact because of the following:

1) There is no problem, thus no solution is needed.

2) Why spend days rewriting code to benefit one person?

it is your opinion that it is not a problem, , (and 1 and 2 are really the exact same thing) just voice YOUR opinion dont speak for any1 else

I don’t speak on opinions. I speak on facts derived from sound economic principals. And the current fact of all this is that the economy is working well, thus no change is needed to satisfy the opinions and needs of one person.

Wanze is an absolute genius. He’s managed to convince the anti-TP players to all support his idea on the grounds of fairness and balance, and still recommend a system that will help a segment of TP Traders to have greater influence on market items.

Forget the alpha and beta testing. Let’s put this into the game right away!

Basically, what we have here is as follows:

Gold/T4 server: “This game is awesome! I’m so happy that I can play with a coordinated group of players”

Non Gold/T4 server: “This game is broken. Why do players have to coordinate in order to get the best rewards? Please fix this so I can get the maximum rewards when I log in.”

The main problem here is that there are so many players who want to get the best stuff, but don’t want to take the time to organize or coordinate themselves. These types of players are prevalent in all MMOs. We call them leechers. So if there are 1,000 players who all want to get the max tier rewards, and 50 are willing to work together, the other 950 players all try to tag along because now there’s a group. Once the map gets hard capped, the remaining players complain instead of trying to fill a new map with each other.

DaveGan.8065:

So would those opposed to this idea on a fundamental level (not just tweaking and ironing out kinks) be in support of removing all of the other DR and time gates in this game so people can do whatever they want as far and as much as they want?

If not, would those in fundamental opposition be able to detail whether and/or why:
1.) this proposal is not comparable to DR, or
2.) why this proposal should be an exception and be immune to DR

Nah dude. Removing DR and gates would destroy the economy. Ever wanted to buy a single Mithril ore for 10 Silver?

But I’m not against Wanze’s idea. I fully support it, since it benefits me greatly.

Omnitek.3876:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Omni, you needed a one sentence TL;DR summary of the above. Some won’t be able to understand otherwise. I’ll help by posting it for you:

Buy low, Sell high.

lol. I love your posts.

The TP gives you all the info you need to “Buy low, Sell high” but people still don’t understand the concept. Baby steps with selling 101. If enough interest is generated, buying next.

Here is the TLDR:
Sell High.

That TL;DR is too short. Novice traders might buy too high, and sell for even higher, thus ruining any chances on decent income. But in the wise words of Wanze, the solution to this is Mounts.

Omni, you needed a one sentence TL;DR summary of the above. Some won’t be able to understand otherwise. I’ll help by posting it for you:

Buy low, Sell high.

They should add Expansion registration codes to the Black Lion Chests! Doing so would increase the value of Locked BL Chests, and add revenue to NCSoft’s bottom line from the flood of BL Key sales!

E is for Evon, that’s good enough for me. Oh Evon Evon Evon starts with E.

serapheles.5409:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Etienne.3049:

I can’t see this being a good idea. Adding costs to buy orders would mean they need to be even lower for people to make a profit which should increase the difference between buy and sell prices which seems undesireable to me.

His suggestion should limit the profit you could do out of the traiding post. And it does, because it basically means that you have to farm karma first to place buy orders. So the amount of money you could make is not only capped by the amount of gold you’re able to use but also by the amount of karma you have. This is a good idea in my mind, since any other activity in the game is capped by time instead of karma. Even karma farming is capped by time. So this change would basically mean that traiding post flipping would also be capped by time, as is any other activity in the game, that gives reward. Thus traiding post flipping would be brought in line with any other activity.

I strongly doubt it would be brought in line with other activities. In fact, while many flippers would be pushed out, flippers that do other content or have karma stockpiles would have greater margins and less competition.

He actually doesn’t know that Wanze is one of the game’s biggest market gurus, next to Vol. The idea is just as you stated, competition would be pushed out, making profits for those with millions of Karma skyrocket.

I wasted about 5 million Karma on stuff like Orrian boxes and Karma armor salvaging, and I still have another 5 million left over. Not all players sit by a BLTC rep all day long. If HHR LostProphet understood the mechanics being suggested, and how it actually works against certain players, he wouldn’t be endorsing this.

Behellagh.1468:

Galphar.3901:

I’d say IF they were going to release a expansion next year we would see an announcement at either SDCC or PaxPrime. SDCC is coming up this month but I don’t see them announcing it there since it’s a mostly comic convention. PaxPrime is at the end of September and the biggest show ANet attends in USA which would make it perfect time to announce 2015s plans for GW2. So my advice would be to chill until PaxPrime and then we’ll know.

What game company in their right mind would announce a game expansion at a comic book convention rather than a gaming convention? Is there a GW2 comic book tie in we don’t know about?

While cosplayers may show up as GW2 characters along with the death stare Luigi’s there isn’t a major turn out of gaming companies at SDCC unless it’s a video game tie-in to a movie some studio is pushing.

It’s probably to spark controversy and hype. I’ll only be truly happy when I see Cantha on my screen.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Etienne.3049:

I can’t see this being a good idea. Adding costs to buy orders would mean they need to be even lower for people to make a profit which should increase the difference between buy and sell prices which seems undesireable to me.

His suggestion should limit the profit you could do out of the traiding post. And it does, because it basically means that you have to farm karma first to place buy orders. So the amount of money you could make is not only capped by the amount of gold you’re able to use but also by the amount of karma you have. This is a good idea in my mind, since any other activity in the game is capped by time instead of karma. Even karma farming is capped by time. So this change would basically mean that traiding post flipping would also be capped by time, as is any other activity in the game, that gives reward. Thus traiding post flipping would be brought in line with any other activity.

Keep in mind that some people have 5 to 10 million Karma unused. And these players could be TP Traders. Thus their flipping wouldn’t reach a cap for years to come. This is why I support this.

You’re wrong. We dislike Kiel not because she’s a woman, but because she’s evil. Ask Isaiah Cartwright. In a livestream on December 13, 2013, he said, and I quote " “I am still convinced that Kiel is the center of all the badness in the world.” Coming from Anet, we must take his feelings to heart. People know that Evon is the hero we all deserve.

Nerelith.7360:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Nerelith.7360:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Sky.7610:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Sky.7610:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If all the complainers don’t want to use their creditcards, they just have to realize that Gems are actually “FREE” when you exchange Gold. There are players here who never spent a single cent beyond the box price of this game, and yet have thousands of Gems.

Just like when I exchange $ for food, i get “FREE” food right?

The food is “FREE” when you use stamps, or other non-monetary currency. You can still buy food with your creditcard.

Your time( non-monetary currency) can be used to exchange for $, and subsequently, goods and services. Therefore, all these goods and services must be “FREE” because i used a non-monetary currency right?

Time is not a currency, so your argument fails in that respect.

Edit – As a preemptive strike, I’ll also say that time has no value at its core. Time has value when you work on a job, at which point you get currency. Unless you’re paid to play video games, you generally can’t treat time in that manner.

Some economists have actually defined Currency as a form of concentrated effort over time. if you look at it that way, if I do dungeons for 4 Hours, and earn " Gold" that I transfer into gems, I am paying for those gems just as much as someone that bought their gems with cash.

And if you did that, you got Gems for free. The 4 hours you spent still has no monetary value. You could make the argument only if Anet allowed us to exchange Gems for Cash. But we all know what happens when you do that <coughD3cough>.

You seem to be stuck On a Logic loop that says " A is B..A is B"

You can repeat yourself over and over, it doesn’t make you right. In YOUR Opinion, Gems obtained by trading for in game gold are “free” because you define free In a circular logical order. “Free” = " Does not cost real world money"

Your opinion may be internally consistent. That does Not mean that your opinion is fact.

Many other people also have opinions.

One of whom was a Noted Economist that calculated the GNP of Norrath. (The Virtual World on which EverQuest takes place.)

Edward Castronova – Indiana University Bloomington – Department of Telecommunications.
He calculated at the time that Norrath’s GNP was somewhere between Russia and Bulgaria.

In HIS opinion.. and I think he has a higher knowledge base to make one about Work and Time, and Money, and Value, effort in a game, has value, just as much as effort in “The real world” has value.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=294828

PS You cannot obtain Real World cash for Norrath’s gold. Not legitimately. But even so, whether you can or not, does not mean that effort in Norrath has or lacks value, it has value at least according to Edward Castronova. I think his opinion carries more weight than " anonymous voice on the internet."

That was indeed a good rebuttal. But we must go back to the facts here. Gems can cost either real world money, or in game Gold. Time is a factor in the accumulation of in game Gold. Time has “personal” value to the player, not a monetary one. There is no way you can attribute a monetary value to Time, unless it’s in the process of earning something of monetary value (i.e. a paycheck from a job).

So while you can make the argument that exchanging Gems costs the player’s Time to accumulate the necessary virtual currency to make the transaction, that exchange cost no real world money out of pocket. The exchange is Free, in a monetary sense.

We could have the eternal debate that Time = Money. But the flaws in this debate is that it’s only the perception of Time = Money, because one can hold Time as being valuable. This misconception leads people to then make the connection that Time = Valuable = Money.

As an example, say you work an 8 hour job that pays you $20/hour. If you decide to call in sick to play GW2 (assuming no paid sick leave), that means 8 hours of your Time was equal to $160. The Time now has a monetary value, because that’s what you could have potentially have made if you didn’t call in sick. So if you farmed all day long to exchange Gold for Gems, the argument then stands that yes the Gems were not free. This would be the only time that the argument could be made this way.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

What the hell are you talking about? I talk about farmers, the guys who farm materials. They do sell them on the traiding post, thus they don’t create new gold. Yet they don’t get as much gold as traiding post flippers do. Someone who “farms” champbags is just stupid and not a farmer.

So wait, your whole argument is now “material farmers” don’t make as much money as TP Traders? Sorry, but your arguments change so much, it’s hard to follow some times.

Argumentation 101:
1) If someone brings up an argument which is flawed, doesn’t belong to the topic or can be proven inconsistent, use a counter argument to prove him wrong.

To be precise:
I’ve asked you as someone who doesn’t believe traiding post flipping is healthy, why traiding post flippers are allowed to get more gold than anybody else. Your job, as someone who believes that traiding post flipping is fine is now to give me an ironclad answer.
You answer this quention with the statement that traiding post flippers don’t create new gold, thus, they don’t increase the inflation.
I’ve now given a conter argument to your argument, which states that farmers also do not create new gold, yet they don’t get as much gold as traiding post flippers are.

In regards to this, let me ask the following: Do you also believe that McDonald’s clerk should make the same amount of money as a Medical Doctor?

The answer to this question is pretty simple: You are an idiot.

Actually, it’s YOUR job to provide us with a solid foundation to your arguments. We’re already proven that you:

1) Don’t like that people make more money than you
2) Are not ok with people making more money than you, but are ok if you make more money than others.
3) Don’t understand the fact that increasing the output of currency has a negative affect on the economy

So basically, we had a 10+ page thread to debate the value of farmed materials. If a single Mithril ore is worth 50 Copper, and the Chaos of Lyssa is worth 100 Gold, you want there to be balance between the two? That is where the silliness lies. Material farmers will never be able to make as much money as a TP Trader. That isn’t an economic theory, that’s common sense.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

What the hell are you talking about? I talk about farmers, the guys who farm materials. They do sell them on the traiding post, thus they don’t create new gold. Yet they don’t get as much gold as traiding post flippers do. Someone who “farms” champbags is just stupid and not a farmer.

So wait, your whole argument is now “material farmers” don’t make as much money as TP Traders? Sorry, but your arguments change so much, it’s hard to follow some times. In regards to this, let me ask the following: Do you also believe that McDonald’s clerk should make the same amount of money as a Medical Doctor?

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

And there is that no-brainer argument again: The gold that traiding post flippers get is gold from other people, not newly created gold. And that’s the reason why traiding post flippers are allowed to get the most revenue in the whole kittening game.

That is stupid!

So if traiding post flippers get that much money because they’re not resposible for inflation, why are material farmers not as rich as traiding post flippers? They also don’t create new gold if they sell their stuff to the traiding post.

The argument isn’t even an answer to the question why traiding post flippers should get more gold than anybode else, yet it is repeated by everybody.

John should probably close this thread I can’t stand this idiocy anymore.

You only think the argument is stupid because you don’t understand the economic impacts of each. John’s last respond gives a really good example that you should read.

To simplify it for you, If Germany were to print billions of Deutsche Marks (not using Euros to avoid potential confusion), and released it into your economy, the value of each Deutsche Mark would fall. Same thing applies to newly created Gold in game. So by increasing the amount of currency (in game or in real life), you effectively increase the cost of goods across the board.

Despite I don’t even know what this example should prove, it’s wrong on multiple layers. First off all, as said, farmers do not create new gold, yet they earn way less than traiding post flippers can earn. Secondly, if there would be more gold, people would buy more and the prices will rise until the people can afford as much items as they could before, all just has gotten more expensive. There is a new balance. It’s not better, it’s not worse, it’s just different. John don’t want to release more new gold to the market from just one type of gameplay because all players would have to participate in it in order to keep up. That is understandable and (IMPORTANT NOTE ->)
it is not my intention to higher the prices but to bring the revenue one could get from traiding post flipping in line with the revenue of other activities, that require as much time and/or skill as traiding post flipping does.

Again, you don’t understand the economic concepts at play here. You can’t call something wrong, when you simply don’t know what’s right. Farmers DO create new Gold. Where do you think their Gold comes from? From the Champ bags they open. This money is newly created currency.

Your “intention” to not create higher prices is negated by your lack of understanding of the subject matter. The suggestion to increase revenue is what creates higher prices to begin with. If the newly created currency doesn’t have proper sinks, the currency is devalued. Ergo, prices rise.

Edit – And you know what happens when prices rise? The common player is hurt, and the TP Trader isn’t affected, as their profits increase with nearly the same velocity as the increase in the cost of goods.

Edit 2 – To help you understand, consider this saying: “The Rich get richer”

HHR LostProphet.4801:

And there is that no-brainer argument again: The gold that traiding post flippers get is gold from other people, not newly created gold. And that’s the reason why traiding post flippers are allowed to get the most revenue in the whole kittening game.

That is stupid!

So if traiding post flippers get that much money because they’re not resposible for inflation, why are material farmers not as rich as traiding post flippers? They also don’t create new gold if they sell their stuff to the traiding post.

The argument isn’t even an answer to the question why traiding post flippers should get more gold than anybode else, yet it is repeated by everybody.

John should probably close this thread I can’t stand this idiocy anymore.

You only think the argument is stupid because you don’t understand the economic impacts of each. John’s last respond gives a really good example that you should read.

To simplify it for you, If Germany were to print billions of Deutsche Marks (not using Euros to avoid potential confusion), and released it into your economy, the value of each Deutsche Mark would fall. Same thing applies to newly created Gold in game. So by increasing the amount of currency in circulation (in game or in real life), you effectively increase the cost of goods across the board.