Guild Wars 2

The problem here is that people against this idea is mistakenly assuming that you can only be competitive with such boosts. The current game is easy enough when you have a high skill level. The introduction of bonus boosts as rewards for high levels of cash spending would only make PvE slightly easier. SPvP and WvW would not be affected with such “P2W” gear. But again, this was only one idea in order to give more incentive to Gem buying with real money.

The agreement that most seem to be more open to is non-stat bonus items for Gem purchasing. Free kites, free mini Mr. Sparkles, etc. Perhaps a quarterly promotion could be done that gives tiered bonus rewards for different spending levels. “5 free BL Keys” for $50, “Finisher of your choice” for $100, and “Free mini Llama” for $200. Something like that.

It goes both ways. Because the Gem Exchange ratio changes with each transaction, you could get less or more, depending on your timing. For example, say Anet has a huge sale in the Gem Store, and there’s some epic new gear. Players who are online at that moment, worldwide, all start exchanging Gold → Gems. If you’re online at the same moment that everyone else is exchanging, you could see 100 Gold for 10 Gems on your screen, but when you click the button, you could end up with only 8 Gems.

Fluffball.8307:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I for one am glad for this new boss, as giants are a pain to kill by yourself. Now I just need to kill him 990 more times to max my achievement.

If you get off your lazy butt, that’s only 42 straight days of giant slaying.

At a rate of 1 spawn per hour, I’d have to give up sleep for most of those 42 days, and pull 24/7 slaying runs.

Sounds reasonable.

I for one am glad for this new boss, as giants are a pain to kill by yourself. Now I just need to kill him 990 more times to max my achievement.

Astralporing.1957:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it would be fair to bring mounts into the game. If Taimi can have a mount in PvE, we should be able to have one too!

You can. You just need to play an asura and make use of their racial skills.

That sounds like racial discrimination to me. Us Bookahs deserve mounts too!

What would Kormir say to this imbalance? She is the Goddess of Truth, and the truth is, we need mounts!

I think it would be fair to bring mounts into the game. If Taimi can have a mount in PvE, we should be able to have one too! The mechanics are there already. We can go into a Siege Devourer, Golems, and even a Minotaur on special occasions. I say release that Kraken, and open up the option to use these whenever we want!

apawolla.6923:

Why do i have to pay for something I am wanting to sell, but then decide to take it back and never receive my gold back?
In my opinion, this is a bad design.
Thank you.

You’re paying to use Evon’s services, regardless of if it sells or not. Works that way in real life too, where some downpayments are non-refundable.

John Smith – The Tzar of the Bazaar

You should really charge Gems for your economics lessons. I’m more than willing to pay 500 Gems per question answered.

This is good reason why you should buy the game directly from Anet. Their Customer Support staff are top notch.

CureForLiving.5360:

EgonVenkman.1907:

M Steel.2574:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Confirmed – Logan’s seed has been planted

^ You are a true poet.

But teasing aside, there has been speculation that Jennah might be pregnant in other forums—though she certainly isn’t showing yet if she is. That said, she’s a powerful mesmer and she hasn’t made many appearances since Scarlet’s attack.

And how do we not know the child isn’t a few years old already. Hidden away after Logan left his old gang to save the queen. That is what my money is on.

But why hide the child?

Jennah probably found a heroic charr that’s worthy of siring a child for her.

Rouven.7409:

Marjory will come back and hand it over to the “boss”, telling him that her sister would have wanted that. We should now use it as a machete to hack down those vines. ARGH.

But… my Thief can’t use Greatswords…

tl;dr version

John Smith.4610:

It’s working as intended.

Zoxea.9564:

~~~ snip ~~~

Ohai. Here’s John explaining the economy. Please take a read.

John Smith.4610:

When a player adds velocity or liquidity to a market, the result is often lower prices and often prices closer to equilibrium.
Given recent feedback let me try also this in other terms (I’ve tried this before and failed so bare with me).
Supply and Demand curves can also be called Willingness to Pay and Willingness to Sell curves. Essentially they are the shape of what people are willing to pay or how much people are willing to sell for. If everyone is will to pay $5 then the “demand” curve would be a flat horizontal line at $5.
In real markets the curves end up being curves because people have different preferences or costs. I might be willing to pay $100 for a new video game and you may be willing to pay $50 and yet another person $30. When you extrapolate this out you get a smooth curve of what people are willing to pay (it works the same way for the willingness to sell).
Balance (or equilibrium) occurs when those two lines meet, and people are willing to pay the same amount people are willing to sell. This price is decided by the market as a whole. Given the “freeness” of our market in GW2 people can sell for more or less than this price. In a textbook this would never happen because people always want to be in that balanced state. In real life though, especially in video games, people have different preferences outside of that market equation. Time is a major factor of this equation in real life. Imagine you could instantly sell items to a vendor for 1 gold or you could place them on the TP for 1gold 5 silver; some amount of player would be willing to sell straight the the vendor and save the time because their preference for time or convenience makes that a good trade off for them and that’s awesome, people should be allowed to make that trade off if they want. Now let’s say people instead just place everything on the TP for super cheap instead of vendoring because it’s easier. The prices these items are placed at are often placed below that equilibrium price which leaves room for someone to purchase those items and sell them at equilibrium price earning some profit per item. The person who purchases and resells values that trades and so does the individual selling easily, in this case both parties match what they want. Now the market has items placed at the equilibrium price for the standard buyers/sellers that sell at that equilibrium. Those sellers cannot change that equilibrium price and placing items above that price will result in the items not selling. They cannot raise the price, the market has decided the price and other people have decided their willingness to sell.
The first question to ask here is, “Isn’t the profit of the reseller directly equivalent to how much people are willing to trade off money for time or other preferences?”
The answer is yes, and more than that, the potential profit is split between all the different individuals attempting to buy and resell. Since the profit is finite and will become distributed between players, why wouldn’t people begin doing that until everyone only made little to no money? If everyone was the same person they would, but there must be some barrier to entry to that activity, there must be something that stops people from jumping in and distributing some of that profit to themselves. The most common and the most correct (but not complete) is that it takes time and skill, if it did not there would be almost no profit in the activity because the potential would be split between too many different individuals.

Confirmed – Logan’s seed has been planted

Zoxea.9564:

Fallacy is not an argument.

Fallacy = Prices are broken

In regards to this, I agree with you. Now here’s a fact:

Economy = Working as intended

Aidan Savage.2078:

(because if I bought gems with gold, someone had to already buy them with cash)

Actually, the Gems came from Anet when they deposited them into the Gem Exchange, before the game went live.

Wikie.2610:

you say hardly noticeable in terms of damage output and earlier mention 15-20% sigils? theres something wrong with your perception of maths dude in one hit that difference would be minimal but taking into account hoooooours of farming that few % make a world of difference

If it takes 50 normal (skill 1) attacks to kill an enemy, and a +15% damage sigil helps the player kill that same enemy with 43~ normal attacks, it’s hardly noticeable. This is because you’re not just instantly killing them. It still takes time to kill something, but now it’s slightly faster.

Zoxea.9564:

Colin Johanson, in 2013, said to: The game is broken, 300g for a precusor it’s not normal. We will create a quest (hardcore) or other.

2014 is there with price totally broken. THE GAME IS BROKEN REPAIR PLEASE.

The game is not broken just because you’re unable to afford a luxury good.

I get what you’re saying, but there’ll be complaints no matter what Anet does. Some players want Ascended armor, but don’t like Crafting. Some players like challenges, and don’t want “easy mode”. And some players want the “easy mode”, and want everything handed to them.

Now to counter the point of Ascended gear already giving advantages. The current stat increases are so minor, and it’s hardly noticeable in game. The same person wearing full Exotic is basically no different than a person wearing full Ascended. The idea with adding some P2W into the game, with limitations, would be like Ascended gear. It would be hardly noticeable in terms of damage output, yet just strong enough to make the player feel special.

#TeamGnashblade approves of this post.

While some of us have a firm grasp on how the economy functions, it would be nice if John had more time to answer questions. But fair warning Wanze, there are some who, no matter how much he answers, will still not get it. I’ve discussed this with John in PMs, and I completely understand why he tends to stay out of certain economic debates.

Aline Castro.9820:

Could it be possible to allow using non-alphabetic characters on our pets’ names? I can understand not allowing users to do this (it would make whispering difficult, etc.), but I fail to see an issue with pets.

I have a white wolf whose name is Haku and I pretty much would love to write it like this ?.

I can only see a question mark " ? " in your post, so I think that would explain why you can’t have non-alphabetic characters in names.

This was an ingenious Gold Sink. Since we all love quaggans, players had to donate to him to keep him moist.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

And you don’t think there would be any issue in pve having something like that +15% dmg sigil?

We already have the speed run crap that devalues anyone and anything that doesn’t fit their model. Must be x class, must have x gear, must have x AP. Now you get to add must have x gemshop item to that list. How does that not make people feel like they have to spend money to be on par in pve.

The trap of “who can spend the most money to win” exists for pve as well, when it comes to such things. Especially when it starts potentially locking people out of content because they don’t have the cookie cutter crap.

Cosmetics in the store are fine. More stats are not. No.More.Power.Creep.Period. We didn’t need it in GW1, we don’t need it here either.

How would you explain the ability for someone to solo Arah? A player with skill is using existing mechanics to win. Speed runs are the same, as a group of players take existing mechanics, and form groups with the sole intent on countering said mechanics. Take Pokemon for example. If you’re facing a Fire based monster, you’d counter it with a Water based one. These Speed Run players are basically doing the same. You’re not Entitled to join private groups if you don’t conform to their standards. If the group says that you’d need to have a +15% sigil, that’s their choice. If you can’t join their group, find another or form your own.

P2W in my suggestion doesn’t mean you can’t succeed without any advantages. It just makes life slightly easier. Do note that just because you have a +15% damage sigil over a +5% one does NOT guarantee a win. If you don’t have the skills to play, even having a double damage sigil can’t save you.

Just as a rebuttal, no one in this game is being “forced” to buy Gems. We do so on our own free will. The fluff and the convenience items don’t add up to much “advantages” at the moment. The idea is to allow paying players to have some slight advantages over non-paying players. While the non-paying players can enjoy Gem Store goods for free with Gold -> Gems exchanging, paying players provide the actual revenue that continuously funds the game. Offering some slight advantages with exclusive gear could help propel revenue streams with more incentives to spend. Note that I say slight advantages, not god-like overpowered P2W in some other games.

Some ideas for items in only PvE:

• +15% damage sigil
• exclusive rune set with slightly better stats
• exclusive Account Bound weapons with slightly higher base damage and stats
• teleport to friends or guildies consumable
• personal WP node for limited free travel

Now as for SPvP and WvW, I do draw the line with these areas. GW2 should not have PvP P2W. I will agree with everyone here. Players, at that point, may then fall into the trap of “who can spend the most money to win”.

With this idea, I’m hoping to see if we players can find some type of balance with the P2W idea. My view is that you allow only minimal P2W, where there’s a cap on how much additional advantage you can get. This would be slightly better than what you can get in game, for free, and not overpowered to where you can’t win without them. Ultimately, this discussion is to give Anet/NCSoft ideas that could benefit them financially. And I admit, this idea is self serving too, since I’m planning another round of massive Gem purchases for when if Cantha is released.

I was stuck on 27/30 last nite. Now I can finally figure out where those remaining 3 coins are.

Ever wanted an autographed picture of Colin? How about a stuffed quaggan? Maybe you want Trahearne to record a personal voice mail greeting for your cell phone? As a fanboy of GW2, I want all these things, so why not put them for sale in the Gem Store?

Right now, there’s a huge untapped market by way of microtransactions. Anet already brings out unique weapon/armor skins for sale, but these are just virtual goods. Having a retail Gem Store that sells and ships real goods would set GW2 apart from other MMOs out there. Currently, if I wanted to get a stuffed quaggan, I’d have to commission it from another player skilled with sewing. This transaction would actually be against the rules, as copyright/trademark issues would pop up. If Anet did this themselves, you not only provide more opportunities for NCSoft to profit, but you also satisfy the needs of your hardcore players.

I admit that shipping world wide would be cost prohibited, so Anet should start off by offering these real goods to only addresses in America. If the beta test is successful and profitable, then it could be spread to Europe.

This idea is mainly one to reward players who buy Gems. These paying players are what keep the game healthy, in terms of revenue.

If Anet were to introduce P2W items into the game, they should NOT balance content around such items with statistical advantages. The current game is well balanced as is. Stat boosts would simply make PvE slightly easier. Here’s a list of mechanics that could be implemented with P2W:

1) WvW and SPvP are not affected by P2W items, like damage boosting sigils. These items would be solely for PvE.
2) All P2W items are Account Bound, and only granted once, like a permanent mining pick.
3) P2W stat bonuses shouldn’t go over a certain threshold. Maybe lower a P2W sigil to +15% damage or something. You don’t want to give away items that are too godly, or you start to ruin game play values with too much “easy mode”.

Economic Advantages with P2W items

This is the advantages for NCSoft, not the in-game economy. Again, the idea here is to reward players who spend real money on microtransactions. The more they spend, the higher tiered rewards they could get. Getting bonus items like a Mini Mr. Sparkles is nice, but getting something that actually gives advantages in the game leads to more incentive to spend. This, in addition to awesome weapon/armor skins in the Gem Store, are nearly guaranteed to generate more Gem purchasing activity. Players who were on the fence previously on whether or not to buy that Assassin Armor skin, will now be more inclined to break out their credit cards. It might even convince players who never wanted to buy Gems, to reconsider.

Vol.7601:

As a holder of five legendaries and the wealth to make five more, I DEMAND recognition from Anet.

I request a plaque in DR in my name, as well as an invitation to Seattle to meet with the game designers so that I can give input on the next legendaries and naming of my choosing. I also request a signed picture of a shirtless Colin as well as Foreman’s services to design and make my wedding cake (Quaggan pls)

I did not make these legendaries because they make my character look good, but because I want recognition that I deserve and I’m the best and better than all them casuals!

Please e-mail me a copy of that pic once you get it. In fact, that gives me an idea for the BLTC forums…

Nerelith.7360:

And the fact that in game gold and gems are traded back and forth in exchange for items that have monetary value..GIVES them monetary value.

I am just hopeing pwoplw can see How items that may not appear to have “Inherent value” or even " real existence" can have monetary value.

The question is, is it worth something to someone? Will someone pay real world money for it?

If we ask those questions about in-game gold…then yes..it has Monetary value. Anet makes money by selling it.

/sigh

Again you’re wrong. Repeating a fallacy does not automatically make it correct. A = B, B= C, does not always mean A = C.

Gold and Gems have no monetary value. Players who exchange back and forth for items of no monetary value, the result is still no monetary value. If you’re talking about real life Gold, a rare metal, then yes, Gold has monetary value, in the real world.

I’m starting to wonder if this debate is a psychological attempt to attach real value to your perceived values of in-game items. Something along the lines of Gold-exchanging players feeling on par with Gem purchasing players. I don’t doubt that you value your Gold and your in-game items. I value them too. But the way MMOs are set up is that we don’t own anything. At most, we own the box the serial number came in. All virtual items are property of NCSoft, and we’re allowed to access them in exchange for money. It’s like we’re leasing time in order to play the game.

Nerelith.7360:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Nerelith.7360:

~~~ snip ~~~

Wrong again. I’m getting a bit tired of having to repeat our explanations on how the Gem Exchange works. Players are NOT buying Gold and Gems from each other. This is a simple fact. Just because the Gold/Gems go into the pot of the Exchange, doesn’t mean they’re suddenly trading with each other. The pot balance is meant to determine the exchange rates. Players are exchanging Gold/Gems with existing Gold/Gems that Anet deposited into the pot before the game started. Yes the new Gold/Gems that were exchanged today are now mingling with the existing Gold/Gems in the pot, but we are not at the point where I’ll be getting someone else’s Gold when I exchange my Gems.

Anet/NCSoft does not make money off of players who exchange Gold -> Gems. Why? Because this exchange was free. Anet/NCSoft makes money from players buying Gems (which have no monetary value). I’m assuming you’re thinking in-game Gold is the same as real life Gold, a rare metal, that people and governments use to do business.

You can say " wrong again" that doesn’t make me wrong. You can explain over and over and over. That doesn’t mean you understand.

Just because all the gold and gems go into a common pool where they mingle with everyone else’s from trades days before doesn’t mean Anet is NOT making money from trading in gems and gold.

They make Money when they sell in game gold to a Player for gems they bought with cash. But they also make money when they buy in game gold from a player that was going about playing the game, that then sold it’s gold to Anet for gems.

The same gold that maybe next week or next month it will sell to another player for gems they purchased with cash.

One of the ways Anet makes money is by dealing in gold sales. Just because gems are in the picture does not eliminate the fact that Anet is making money buying and selling it’s own in game gold.

Yopu used the following definition of Monetary value.

Monetary Value: Noun – the property of having material worth (often indicated by the amount of money something would bring if sold)

According to your own definition of monetary value, in game gold has monetary value. Since it is indicated by the amount of money it..( in game gold) would bring when sold to the cash purchaser of gems.

I hope you understand how your own definition of monetary value applies.

Wrong again. Gold and Gems have no material worth. We don’t own them. We’re allowed to access them.

You’re right Wanze. Perhaps I should amend my suggestion to include damage boosting Sigils that are exclusive to paying players? Something like “free +20% damage Sigil for each 4k Gems purchased”? Or exclusive Legendary weapons with higher base damage output for those who spend $1,000 or more.

Edit – Just an idea, mind you. I’m thinking this is a great way to increase revenue streams for NCSoft.

Edit 2 – The main idea here is to grant exclusiveness to items that can’t be gotten from Gems. Sorta like a Tier 2 Gem currency, with T1 being the free Gems that players can exchange with their Gold.

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

mtpelion.4562:

Nerelith.7360:

Not true. I disagree.

It is true, which means you disagree with reality. Or are you making a statement “not true” and then disagreeing with yourself and thus agreeing with me?

ArenaNet has monetized gems. They offer the gem to gold exchange and gem store in order to incentivize players to purchase gems. They only make money when players buy gems.

Any other statement to the contrary by you is blatantly wrong.

Of course anet only gets cash when they get cash
monetary value is not cash

what they get from players who sell gold is something of monetary value, what they get from people who buy gems is cash.

you can pay some one in things other than money, generally these things have monetary value.

lets say i go to a different country, and the people there trade me silver in exchange for my drawings. Silver has monetary value, it is not money. However it cannot be debated that they have paid me. I have not given them drawings for free, i gave it to them for silver.

Notice silver is not cash. I can trade it for cash, but it is not cash. I dont actually make cash, until i go to the silver exchange and change my silver for cash. However, i gained monetary value the moment i traded my drawings for silver.

based on how much silver i was able to charge for my drawings, i can then figure out the monetary value of my drawings in cash, even though i at no point sold a drawing for cash.
i can figure out how much cash, my drawings are worth, which is the monetary value of my drawings, So yes, for anyone asking me, i make money from selling drawings, I could say i make money from selling silver, but that is only giving them a tiny piece of the picture. The actual economic force driving my business is the value of my drawings, because how many drawings i can get silver for, determines how much money i make.

You assigned a Monetary value to your drawings even though you could never buy coffee at starbucks with them.

People seem to think Monetary value, and currency are one an the same. Once they Understand " Phys’ drawing may not be currency, but it has monetary value…. silver may not be currency but it also has monetary value….

maybe….

they can then understand.." neither gems nor gold are currency…. but they have monetary value. When a Player buys gems with Gold… and buys gold with gems, they are trading in items that have monetary value.

Wrong again. Here’s a dictionary definition of monetary value:

Monetary Value: Noun – the property of having material worth (often indicated by the amount of money something would bring if sold)

Gems and in-game Gold have no monetary value. When you purchase Gems, you’re paying for the entertainment Anet sells, and the privilege of accessing exclusive content in the Gem Store. Gems are credits with no monetary value. Everything in game is property of NCSoft. I’m just accessing them via real money I pay to the company. I could buy 10,000 Gems right now, and Anet has every right to take those away, with no refund possible.

Nerelith.7360:

~~~ snip ~~~

Wrong again. I’m getting a bit tired of having to repeat our explanations on how the Gem Exchange works. Players are NOT buying Gold and Gems from each other. This is a simple fact. Just because the Gold/Gems go into the pot of the Exchange, doesn’t mean they’re suddenly trading with each other. The pot balance is meant to determine the exchange rates. Players are exchanging Gold/Gems with existing Gold/Gems that Anet deposited into the pot before the game started. Yes the new Gold/Gems that were exchanged today are now mingling with the existing Gold/Gems in the pot, but we are not at the point where I’ll be getting someone else’s Gold when I exchange my Gems.

Anet/NCSoft does not make money off of players who exchange Gold → Gems. Why? Because this exchange was free. Anet/NCSoft makes money from players buying Gems (which have no monetary value). I’m assuming you’re thinking in-game Gold is the same as real life Gold, a rare metal, that people and governments use to do business.

I’ve always had a bad taste for P2W games, so it’s odd that I’m having a change of heart these days. But now that I think about it, perhaps GW2 should start moving baby steps into the realm of P2W items in the Gem Store.

Currently, we have convenience items that give boosts to characters. Increased running/swimming speed, instant teleport to airship or VIP areas, etc. But now, I’m thinking us paying players (those who purchase Gems) should get access to exclusive items or bonuses.

The current system is a good one, as it allows players who don’t purchase Gems to have access to the Gem Store. Not many MMOs out there would go out of their way to allow players to get free microtransaction items. This is why Anet is such a wonderful company. But going a step further, it’s possible to have some items that are exclusive or give a bigger statistical advantage for players who do spend money on microtransactions. Doing something like this would be an incentive to spend even more on the game. Something like when we got the Mini Mr. Sparkles for buying 4k Gems. This should happen more often, or even expanded in scale of bonuses. An idea would be like, 1 Legendary token for each 4k Gems purchased. 10 tokens = free Legendary.

What do you, my fellow BLTC forum members, think about this idea? I know Evon would approve.

Edit – Topic amended to reflect the purpose of this discussion, which is to see if it’s a good idea for Anet to include more incentives to drive Gem sales.

Ronin.7381:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’m sorry, but can someone explain what the “Costa Concordia” is? Was this a ship from GW1 lore or something?

No it was a ship in real life that hit a reef/rock due to Captain error within the Mediterranean (?). Recently they just rose the ship, which was about 3/4s submerged in the sea, up with pressured air in a raft-like contraption to sail it to a harbor in order to be broken down. The thing is practically rotting. But because of the Captain, a lot of lives were lost.

Honestly the OP is just making a big deal out of nothing.

So basically, you have a real ship that coincidentally has a similar name to something in GW2. That’s grasping at straws.

phys.7689:

buying gems to turn it into gold is effectively buying gold.

much like if i have to turn my american dollars into yen to buy a new anime, i effectively bought the anime.

or if i have to buy 1500 microsoft points to buy a game. No the game was not given to me for free, i bought it.

Exchanging dollars into yen is ok, because both are real currencies. I can’t speak on terms of MS points, because I don’t know their policy on those credits. Are you able to get MS points by playing games online, like I buy Halo, beat the game 500 times and get 1,000 free MS points?

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

phys.7689:

you are once again confusing monetary value, with money. Monetary value is before an item is sold, it is the agreed upon worth of said item right now. Once i sell it, i dont have an item of monetary value, i have actual money.

for example the monetary value of gold(real life), right now, in US dollars is 1294$ per oz. Tommorow it may be different, even if i dont sell that gold, it currently as of this moment has a monetary value of 1294$, that value is not realized until i sell it, but that is its current value.

If someone gives me an oz of gold for a painting, i can say i got the an item with a monetary value of 1294$, i cant say i got 1294$ until i sell that gold, but i did in fact gain value.

i also can say i was paid
and i can say that that customer gave me something of value, specifically monetary value.

you can think of monetary value as the expected price, or the agreed upon price for an item.

Monetary Value: Noun – the property of having material worth (often indicated by the amount of money something would bring if sold)

Gold (real life) has monetary value. If you buy an ounce of Gold, you still have something of monetary value. I think this is where Nerelith is making the mistake in her arguments. Gold in game is not the same as Gold in real life, even though the same word is being used. So if A = Gold (real life) and B = money, then A = B.

Your painting in and of itself has no value. If you find someone willing to pay for it, then it has monetary value. The person who bought the painting now has something they value, but there is no monetary value until he’s able to find another person to buy it off of him.

The service Anet sells, the “entertainment” has monetary value to them and NCSoft. When they sell you their service or entertainment, you receive in game credits that have no monetary value. You paid for the privilege of accessing exclusive content.

from an economic standpoint there is no difference between gold and a painting other than the fact people have a much more concrete idea of what someone is willing to pay for it from moment to moment.

once again you are confusing monetary value with actual money. The monetary value is the expected price based on what people are in general willing to pay for it. Right now, my house has a monetary value, based on its condition age and location. a Paul cezanne painting has a current monetary value of 279 million (although at the time of sale it was 259 million)

the key here is that things have an expected value, how much people are willing to pay for said item. Thats really what monetary value is, it is how much people are willing to pay for an item.

If my painting is being sold every day multiple times for 1000 dollars, one would say it has a monetary value of 1000 dollars. i gold in gw2 is being traded 1000s of times per day at 14 cents per 1 gold, one can say gold currently has a monetary value of 14 cents.

people are willing to pay 14 cents for gold right now based on how much arenanet has sold gold yesterday,today and the day before(whenever), even moment to moment they recalculate its value.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem
That is about as accurate a monetary value as you can get.

I could say the shoe I’m wearing has monetary value if someone is willing to buy it. But you have to find someone willing to pay for my shoe. This is different from real life Gold, which you will find no shortage of people willing to buy it.

Gold in game is a virtual currency that has no monetary value. No one buys Gold with real money, except the ones breaking the ToS when dealing with RMT companies. In game, you can get Gold in exchange for Gems, neither of which has monetary value. Gems, which are in-game credits, have no worth, as per the User Agreement.

I’m sorry, but can someone explain what the “Costa Concordia” is? Was this a ship from GW1 lore or something?

Ohoni.6057:

~~~ snip ~~~

You want an Easy Mode by telling Anet to put you on a map that’s destined to succeed. You are a solo player looking to complete group content. Because you don’t have a group of your own, you’re forced to join an existing one. This is one of the requirements when attempting a challenge where you need to coordinate (to some degree) different events happening at the same time. Your Easy Mode idea is that the map coordinates itself. No. Players take existing mechanics and events on on the map, and coordinates it themselves. You are not Entitled to being a part of this group just because you want it. Just as you’re not Entitled to joining a coordinated group that aims to beat the Marionette or the Great Wurm.

As to your idea that rewards aren’t balanced. Why do you think there are different tiers, or levels of reward? They’re not the same, because you’re granted better rewards with more success. At the World Cup, does Brazil get a Gold medal because Germany got one? Or why doesn’t FIFA make it easier for the USA to have a “success-capable” team? No. These are challenges. So if you fail at a challenge, you get rewarded at whatever level you succeeded up to.

Ohoni.6057:

But it’s still part of the game. You are one of the players wants to solo everything. That’s fine. In fact, you can still solo everything without asking for anyone’s help, save for events like Arah to end your Personal Story.

/sigh. Four pages in and you still don’t actually read anything. I’ve said time and time and time and time again that I have no interest in soloing in this game. I just want to be able to jump in and play with other people, without having to be in a party, or a guild, or pre-organizing, or joining in on a map. If I wanted to do any of those things I would be playing WoW, who by all accounts do those things better. Instead I play GW2, and LOVE GW2, because it is a game that allows me to play with other people without the typical MMO hassles and drama. But the new content just keeps getting further and further away from that.

Dry Top T4/T5. CoF entrance unlocking. The rewards are given map wide, so any player on that map can benefit. This is intended. And realize that not all content rewards are like this. It’s not mandatory for you to get T4/T5 rewards.

Nu-Teq, Marionette, Triple Wurm, LA events, Blitz, Dry Top, it seems like an awful lot of the new content over the past year, particularly the most rewarding stuff, has been the “get the right map or you’re screwed” meta stuff. Tell me, what content have they added over the past year that you can do with whatever random pick-up group that you end up in, and that is as rewarding as that stuff?

I think you don’t understand your own arguments. You are, in essence, a solo player. Why? Because you don’t have a group. You, as a solo player, want to join my group so that you can get max rewards. Nothing wrong with this idea. But now, as a solo player, you feel you’re Entitled to the max rewards, simply because you did the content. If my group fails, the map fails. You, on the other hand, want Anet to reward you because you completed 1 out of 5 requirements, thus fulfilling your part. This is where you’re wrong in your thinking. Solo content grants solo rewards. Group content grants group rewards. You don’t get to enjoy the group rewards if the “group” didn’t succeed.

As for your other argument, you want to know what content Anet added for you solo players? Try looking at the Living Story. You get rewarded based on your completion of the story. You want better rewards? Take up the challenge Anet provides to you and succeed at them. And realize that if you take up these challenges, and they require group effort, you better find yourself a group.

I’ll repeat this again. You’re not Entitled to the best rewards, simply because you feel you deserve them. You don’t get the Marionette chest if your map doesn’t complete all phases. You don’t get the Wurm chest if your map doesn’t complete all three heads. And you don’t get T4/T5 Dry Top, if your map doesn’t complete the required amount of events in the 45 min. timer. Challenges are meant to be hard, and rewards a given based on the level of challenge you complete. Anet will never make an Easy Mode button for a lot of valid reasons.

phys.7689:

you are once again confusing monetary value, with money. Monetary value is before an item is sold, it is the agreed upon worth of said item right now. Once i sell it, i dont have an item of monetary value, i have actual money.

for example the monetary value of gold(real life), right now, in US dollars is 1294$ per oz. Tommorow it may be different, even if i dont sell that gold, it currently as of this moment has a monetary value of 1294$, that value is not realized until i sell it, but that is its current value.

If someone gives me an oz of gold for a painting, i can say i got the an item with a monetary value of 1294$, i cant say i got 1294$ until i sell that gold, but i did in fact gain value.

i also can say i was paid
and i can say that that customer gave me something of value, specifically monetary value.

you can think of monetary value as the expected price, or the agreed upon price for an item.

Monetary Value: Noun – the property of having material worth (often indicated by the amount of money something would bring if sold)

Gold (real life) has monetary value. If you buy an ounce of Gold, you still have something of monetary value. I think this is where Nerelith is making the mistake in her arguments. Gold in game is not the same as Gold in real life, even though the same word is being used. So if A = Gold (real life) and B = money, then A = B.

Your painting in and of itself has no value. If you find someone willing to pay for it, then it has monetary value. The person who bought the painting now has something they value, but there is no monetary value until he’s able to find another person to buy it off of him.

The service Anet sells, the “entertainment” has monetary value to them and NCSoft. When they sell you their service or entertainment, you receive in game credits that have no monetary value. You paid for the privilege of accessing exclusive content.

Ohoni.6057:

This is very true. Anet wanted a game where you could choose to play by yourself, and just join in with other random people in the Open World at their leisure. Now, there are people who expect to be handed high level rewards because they did their part in an event. There’s now a disconnect between events that you can solo and get max rewards, from events that require multiple group all doing their parts to get max rewards.

Exactly. You can’t take one game and switch it for another mid-stream. This is not the game that people signed up to play.

But it’s still part of the game. You are one of the players wants to solo everything. That’s fine. In fact, you can still solo everything without asking for anyone’s help, save for events like Arah to end your Personal Story.

But there’s another type of player in the same MMO you’re playing. These are the group players, who can coordinate and succeed on difficult challenges. You are most welcome to join these players, as this is an Open World game. Don’t mistake that for being deserving of the max rewards for participating a group event.

Dry Top T4/T5. CoF entrance unlocking. The rewards are given map wide, so any player on that map can benefit. This is intended. And realize that not all content rewards are like this. It’s not mandatory for you to get T4/T5 rewards. This is a bonus for people putting in the efforts to succeed as a group. If your group doesn’t succeed, you’re not more important than the other 10, 20, or 50 people on the same map as you. That means you don’t deserve to access the top rewards of group content, even if your efforts may (or may not) have been better than all the rest of the players.

Bottom line, if you want the max rewards, set up the map’s group yourself, or taxi into a map that other players have coordinated. And by the way, if you do decide to set up a map yourself, and other players won’t listen to you, you can’t be mad at them. They’re not required to help you, because they want to play the game how they want to play.

OrianZeta.1537:

Once again, this proves that the greatest challenge Anet can throw at the community has nothing to do with numbers or content.

The greatest challenge is getting players to work together.

The vast majority do not, cannot or will not organize because we have been trained to play this game thinking of ourselves. Log in, load up, enjoy. A lot of content may “require” teams, but most of it you can fly solo. That’s a problem when you push open-world, instance-wide content that demands cooperation.

Coordinate? I’m not a Commander. We need someone or a large guild, because I can’t. No one will listen, anyway, everyone’s in the organized instance. -Everyone else

This is very true. Anet wanted a game where you could choose to play by yourself, and just join in with other random people in the Open World at their leisure. Now, there are people who expect to be handed high level rewards because they did their part in an event. There’s now a disconnect between events that you can solo and get max rewards, from events that require multiple group all doing their parts to get max rewards.

phys.7689:

mtpelion.4562:

Nerelith.7360:

Not true. I disagree.

It is true, which means you disagree with reality. Or are you making a statement “not true” and then disagreeing with yourself and thus agreeing with me?

ArenaNet has monetized gems. They offer the gem to gold exchange and gem store in order to incentivize players to purchase gems. They only make money when players buy gems.

Any other statement to the contrary by you is blatantly wrong.

Of course anet only gets cash when they get cash
monetary value is not cash

what they get from players who sell gold is something of monetary value, what they get from people who buy gems is cash.

you can pay some one in things other than money, generally these things have monetary value.

lets say i go to a different country, and the people there trade me silver in exchange for my drawings. Silver has monetary value, it is not money. However it cannot be debated that they have paid me. I have not given them drawings for free, i gave it to them for silver.

Notice silver is not cash. I can trade it for cash, but it is not cash. I dont actually make cash, until i go to the silver exchange and change my silver for cash. However, i gained monetary value the moment i traded my drawings for silver.

based on how much silver i was able to charge for my drawings, i can then figure out the monetary value of my drawings in cash, even though i at no point sold a drawing for cash.
i can figure out how much cash, my drawings are worth, which is the monetary value of my drawings, So yes, for anyone asking me, i make money from selling drawings, I could say i make money from selling silver, but that is only giving them a tiny piece of the picture. The actual economic force driving my business is the value of my drawings, because how many drawings i can get silver for, determines how much money i make.

Monetary Value: Noun – the property of having material worth (often indicated by the amount of money something would bring if sold)

Your paintings would fall in this category if you sold it. There is no monetary value for the buyer once he owns it, until he can find someone willing to pay for it.

Gems have no monetary value. Neither does Gold. Anet’s service, which is what they truly sell you, has monetary value (to Anet) up until the point where they receive the cash from the player. After the money is exchanged, the Gems you receive have 0 value to them.

Nerelith.7360:

~~~ snip ~~~

You need to realize that you don’t fully understand how the Gem Exchange works. Just because you believe it works the way you think it works, doesn’t make it right. There are two things going on here. 1) We understand the workings of the exchange, per conversations with Anet employees. 2) You don’t understand the workings, and are attributing fallacies in order to try and prove your point.

We can debate this until the Dolyaks come home, and you’ll still be wrong. You cannot dispute our facts with your opinions.

Nerelith.7360:

~~~ snip ~~~

Repeating a fallacy does not make it correct. Please realize that you don’t understand how the Gem Exchange works. We, of the BLTC forums, have been talking about it since day one. Anet has also explained what it is and how it works, thus the reason why we understand what we’re talking about.

The Gem Exchange is a pot. In the pot is Gems and Gold deposited before the game went live. The exchange rate is a formula based on the rations of Gems and Gold. When a player exchanges their Gems or Gold, they get the opposite in return. The pot levels rise and fall, and with it the exchange rates. When the player population is doing too many exchanges of the same type, the formula makes makes it more expensive, thus reducing the incentive to continue. At the same time, the incentive to do the opposite increases by the same rate. The higher the exchange rate goes for Gold -> Gems, that’s proof that there’s a lot more Gold than there are Gems in the balance. Basically the scales are tipped heavily towards one direction.

Going on, Anet/NCSoft profits off of players who continue to make microtransaction purchases. To do this, they pay for Gems with real money. THIS is where the money comes from. This money is put back into the company, as well as pay out dividends to shareholders. Players who just trade in-game Gold for Gems do not add revenue to the company, because they didn’t pay for any microtransaction. They got their Gems for free. This is an intended mechanic. This allows non-paying customers to enjoy the same things as us paying customers. Non-paying customers exchange their time and hard work (which of course has no monetary value) for Gems. Paying customers exchange their real money for Gems (still no monetary value, as per the User Agreement).

Nerelith.7360:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I didn’t know that Anet employees could pay bills or buy groceries with in game gold. Who knew.

Unfortunately, there are some who don’t understand how the in-game system works. Because they perceive Gold to have “value”, they incorrectly assume that you can now use this “value” to pay employee salaries, overhead, dividends, etc. At this point, here’s how they see the system:

A = Gold (a virtual currency)
B = Real money (self explanatory)

A = B

Of course this thinking is completely inaccurate.

Just because you misunderstand the concept of economic value, and continue repeating it, doesn’t make it so.

in game gold has economic value. Anet sells it, Anet makes a profit from it’s sale. Anet makes Money from selling gold exactly as Gold sellers make money selling gold.

It seems because they sell you gems for your cash, and then you use gems to buy gold, that you believe falsely that you have not payed real cash for gold.

It is because you have paid Anet real world cash for their in game gold that they sold to you, that they can pay their employees salaries.

yes, Anet buying and selling gold gives in game gold value, which can be then used to pay salaries, and wages, and profits used to disburse to stockholders… just like any other Gold seller makes money from selling Anet’s in game gold against the TOS, Anet also makes Money from selling Gold, except they do it by first selling you gems, which you then use to buy gold.

It seems you still have a hard time understanding this. I hope that you understand it better.

/sigh

I really thought you’d understand the concepts we’ve been explaining all these pages. Anet doesn’t sell Gold. Anet sells Gems. Once in your possession, these Gems have no monetary value. And just because you can exchange Gems for Gold, that doesn’t mean Gold has monetary value as well. They have “personal value”.

And by the way, you cannot take an illegal activity such as selling Gold for real money, and then use such an example to support your arguments.

Edit – I forgot to remind you that when a player exchanges their Gold → Gems, they are not paying anyone’s salary. The huge flaw here is that you believe Gold = real money. In the real world, that applies fine, as Gold is precious metal that acts as a buffer to inflation. In the game, Anet doesn’t make a single penny when a player exchanges Gold → Gems. I repeated it twice here so you understand it’s importance. Paying customers like me who makes microtransaction sales is what drives the current revenue stream for NCSoft.

Ohoni.6057:

~~~ snip ~~~

Every single thing you posted above points to “I want the game to be played how I want it to be played”. Anet cannot satisfy every single player. And Anet knows well enough not to make it easy mode so every single player can get their max rewards whenever they decide they want it.

Group content with requirements to meet max rewards is a simple concept. Your map needs to finish X amount of events in order to fill the event bar. If you do your part, that’s great. You contributed to the event bar. But if another group fails to cover an event, and you’re 99% to getting T4 when the timer runs out, your whole map only gets T3. I fully understand that it’s frustrating to fail, but realize that in this content, you are not the only player there. You rise and fall together. THIS is how it works, and there’s nothing wrong with it.

You keep going on about fairness and equal effort. That means nothing when you have events that require efforts from different people, that lead to different tiers of rewards. Again, you’re not Entitled to the best rewards, simply because you put in your best effort in group content. When you think about it, what you want is completely unfair to everyone else. If Anet made Easy Mode T4, where anyone could get the max rewards, what would be the purpose of even offering these rewards in the first place? Why not just give everyone cheap keys? Why not just give everyone a Tequatl weapon? Why not just give everyone a Legendary?

You don’t understand why your thinking is flawed. By asking for such a system where everyone could get max rewards because they wanted it, you take away the incentive of completing a challenge. The challenge in this case, is to complete X amount of events within 45 minutes. And note that GW2 is not the only MMO that offers challenges with requirements.

Edit – note that now there’s T5 levels in game. That means you’ll need to rely on other people even more to complete the challenge at hand.

I believe that this was all Ellen Kiel’s plan from last year. She gave you discounted WP costs to get you hooked, and now she’ll take them away. What we need now is for Evon Gnashblade to sell us a portable WP generator in the Gem Store so we can get past Kiel’s evil plans.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I didn’t know that Anet employees could pay bills or buy groceries with in game gold. Who knew.

Unfortunately, there are some who don’t understand how the in-game system works. Because they perceive Gold to have “value”, they incorrectly assume that you can now use this “value” to pay employee salaries, overhead, dividends, etc. At this point, here’s how they see the system:

A = Gold (a virtual currency)
B = Real money (self explanatory)

A = B

Of course this thinking is completely inaccurate.

Nerelith.7360:

It’s Not that hard to understand. Player A buys Gems with Cash. Player B buys Gems with Gold. Player A uses their Gems to buy gold. Player B uses their Gems to buy a Skin.

What has transpired is…Gold went from Player B to Player A. Gems went from Player A to player B. And Player B used up the gems when they bought the skin.

All Anet did was serve as middle in the transaction, and take off a Bit of profit off each exchange.

It is simple to understand for us, because we accept that the gold that player B uses to buy gems has value.

Again, you don’t fully understand the system. Gems don’t go to player B from player A. Gems and Gold go into a pot with existing Gems and Gold. Anet doesn’t profit off of this exchange. The difference between the Gold -> Gems and Gems -> Gold is a SINK. This is to deter people like me from using the exchange like a real world Currency Market. Trust me, I’ve tried this and failed.

What really transpired is that Gold went into a pot full of other existing Gold, and the pot then returned Gems. Vice versa, Gems went into a pot full of other existing Gems, and the pot returned Gold. The amount of Gems and Gold in the pot alters the exchange rate, which is supposed to be a self balancing mechanism. If too many players are exchanging Gold for Gems, the pot makes it more expensive to do so, all while giving players more incentive for exchange Gems for Gold.

Nerelith.7360:

We also have players that bought the game, and make gem store purchases with Gold, as another type of paying customer.

This needs to be addressed too. Anet/NCSoft does NOT profit off of a player who never buys Gems with real money. They are NOT paying customers, simply because no money was exchanged. Pretty simple business understandings here. A company cannot survive by giving away free stuff. They rely on players like me who spends real money in addition to the box price of the game.

Please realize that you’re wrong in your understanding of how a business works, and how the Gem Exchange works. We’re doing our best to explain it to you, as we’ve been here a long time and know what we’re talking about. Some of us even have real world experience with business (i.e. my business degree, my management expertise, etc).