Guild Wars 2

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vol.7601:

Because it’s perfect business sense.

A game is not a business. Players can’t be seen as money source. Ofcourse they have to make money. But if they see the player only as a way to make money, the game isn’t any better as a F2P title from EA.

Not sure if you fully understand what a business is. Players are customers. NCSoft/Anet are for-profit companies. Now if they were government owned entities that were created to ensure the wealth is shared evenly to eliminate social classes, then maybe you’ll have a point.

There are so many fallacies in this thread. As it has been stated, the Gem → Gold prices have been debated so many times, and are confirmed to be working as intended by Anet’s economist.

I think what’s happening to Maguuma is what happened to Black Gate. They were so good, that other servers started to double team them into oblivion.

Is some of the friction that’s out there right now a side effect of NCSoft wanting GW2 to go in a direction Anet doesn’t? By this I mean does Anet actually agree with us players, but can’t say anything because of the direction upper management dictates?

The regular prices for all Gem Store items are decent as they are. If you want to save money, it’s always good to have some self control, and wait for sales. Things like Character Slots, or BL Keys always goes on sale. As for skins, I’m sure they’ll go on sale at some point in the future. By then, they’ll be considered “classics”. But the reason why they would be on sale is because there would be better skins released.

And by the way, it takes me about a minute to get 4,000 Gems. If I can do it that quickly, so can new or Casual players.

I’ve been busy and haven’t been able to address the latest posts. Basically the people who claim I’m trolling are the same people who refuse to understand that Precursors are affordable right now. If I can go and buy a Precursor for under 100 Gold, that means even a brand new player to the game could afford one within a few weeks of playing.

John Smith watches the economy like a hawk. Right now, everything is working as intended. The sooner players learn how the economy works, the sooner these false rumors that Precursors are overpriced will go away.

Advent Leader.1083:

kitten . That gold->gem price hike lol.

With every single desirable weapon skin being released at the same time, you’ll probably have to wait a week or so for the exchange rates to fall.

If you can manage to farm 10 Gold per day, you’ll be able to afford a Precursor in a little over a week.

I’m sure Jory gave Evon permission to replicate her sister’s sword. I mean, he did save Jory’s life from an assassin years back.

Evon Gnashblade has heard everyone’s request for some epic weapon skins, so he decided to give us want we want! Right now in the Gem Store, not only can you get older skins like Kasmeer’s Staff or Rox’s Quiver, but you can also get Belinda’s Nodachi Greatsword skins too!!!

Be sure to stop by the Gem Store, and give thanks to Tyria’s #1 charr by purchasing some goods!

Every now and then, I find myself looking at my notes from my Marketing Behavior class. The fun part of this is speculating what happens to consumer demand, when a purposely limited item has its supply increased dramatically. Does demand go up? Does demand fade? These questions led me to want to pick the brains of the BLTP forum experts and John of what they think will happen to the Precursor market when Precursor Crafting comes out?

Right now, even though details of the crafting methods are being kept secret, we’ve gotten a mild taste of what the scavenger hunt for crafting materials will look like. The Mawdrey backpiece had players exploring vast areas that many have never gone before. Mini dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, far corners of maps. Dare I speculate that players will need to do SPvP and/or WvW as part of their Precursor crafting quest.

My Speculations

The way I see it, Precursor Crafting will not be easy. The journey for mats will be long and hard, but that won’t stop players from now farming these items to sell on the TP. Since Anet is now introducing a brand new faucet for Precursors, the market will react accordingly. I’m speculating that high end Precursor prices will drop, but low end Precursors prices will rise.

Why? Here’s my justification. Everyone and their grandmothers know that players will try to craft the most valuable Precursors to sell on the market. That’s a pretty common sense assumption. If you’re gonna go on a long quest, it better be worth it. With the infusion of supply on the top 3 or 4 Precursors (in terms of value), competition will be fierce to get theirs sold on the TP. With the listing fees being so high at that point, it’s a huge gamble to hope enough demand keeps prices high and steady.

But why would low end Precursors rise? Same reason as above. Players will be so focused on crafting the top 3 or 4 Precursors (in terms of value), that no one will be willing to invest all that time and energy for something worth 90 Gold. So with that in mind, players will start buying up the TP supply of cheaper Precursors, which will naturally lead to increased prices. Technically, Precursors like Venom and Rage will be more rare than Zap or Dusk. Subconsciously, players will sense the artificial increase in rarity, and be compelled to grab them while they’re cheap, which leads to a self fulfilling prophecy of increased prices.

I feel that low end Precursors will rise by 25%, and high end will fall by the same percentage. In addition to this, I also speculate that only the high end Precursors’ price drop will be temporary, as players who thought they could never get a Zap or Dusk will now be joining the market, and competing to purchase the new supply. As the cheaper high end Precursors are gobbled up, prices will then begin to rise again.

Anet already gives titles and AP for spending Gold in game. The Emperor title is purely a cost one for buying all tiers of Cultural Armor. You could even say the Fashion Collector is a cost title too. Beyond spending 1,500 Gold for all colors of the new Commander Tag, adding at least a title won’t hurt anyone.

Come on now, I’m active in PvE and WvW. My Guild runs 10 to 15 tags when we do Guild Missions. I’m making a suggestion that would give some incentive to actually buying all Commander Tag colors. I’m sure there are many players who are willing to have access to all 5 colors.

Essence Snow.3194:

I call bs. Pretty sure everyone that has had any interaction with you on the forums knows the reason behind this thread. I am quite surprised it is still open considering the forum rules claim it isn’t allowed.

So you support threads that proclaim inaccurate statements like “The precursors market is overpriced”, and then go on to attack my thread that proves those statements otherwise? The reason why threads get closed is because people go off topic, much like what you’re doing, which is against the forum rules.

You agree to the following guidelines, which will help cultivate a user-friendly environment in the Guild Wars 2 Forums:

• Stay on topic and create a new post for tangentially related topics.
• Avoid frivolous and duplicate postings.
• Be respectful. Be pleasant to forum members, staff members, and moderators.
• Do not engage in personal attacks against forum members or in character assassination. Posts that attack another member, that single out a player for ridicule, or that accuse someone of inappropriate in-game actions will be removed without notice. In-game violations should be reported directly to our Support Team. If you believe that using the support system did not result in a sufficient or timely response, you may post your concern in the Support section of the forums.

Back on topic. John manages the economy quite well. Supply of high end luxury items like Precursors are meant to be ultra rare. But remember one thing: Players themselves are the ones who dictate prices. If something seems to be overpriced, it’s because there are enough players willing to pay those prices. That’s how a market works. Once players aren’t willing to pay the prices, you’ll see prices naturally drop to levels that’s acceptable.

laokoko.7403:

So should I make a new thread called the precursor I want is too expensive.

I fail to understand the point of this discussion.

The whole point to this is that there’s nothing wrong with current Precursor prices. All Precursors have the same drop rate as other Precursors. One you can buy for 90 Gold, the other you can buy for 1,500 Gold. All the complaints about Anet not “fixing” the market come from people who don’t understand the market.

Azrael.4960:

Because from a mechanic perspective, they make the three least useful weapons in the game.

It’s not an issue about mechanics. It’s more about the art/design of the weapon, and the status of having a Legendary.

Also, there’s a common misconception being spread by other players that Precursors are “overpriced” or “expensive”. After doing some research, I’ve successfully countered all those claims.

Wolfield.9812:

Its the materials that you use when making a legendary that make it expensive. No one is willing to waste 1k gold on other stuff for a bad legendary.

What are you talking about mate? Legendary weapons are the top tier luxury items in this game. I just offered proof that Precursors are highly affordable to nearly anyone, including new players.

Romek.4201:

this precursors you posted are nothing worth cause they are useless

I beg to differ. Rodgort’s is an awesome looking Legendary. The animations are top notch. The torch head almost looks alive. And if they were so useless, then why would someone have purchased my Rodgort’s Flame listing from the TP?

I personally hope they bring out more weapons, armors, and backpieces that have a similar “scavenger hunt” feel. Running for all the requirements was a lot of fun!

Legendary armor WILL come. That’s why I’ve been hoarding lv 80 Exotic armors for the possible new Precursor armors that I might have to MF.

I was doing some research, and discovered that there are Precursors being sold for super cheap on the TP as I type! The image I’m attaching will shatter the mythos of Precursors being too expensive. These Precursors aren’t 2,000 Gold. Or 1,500 Gold. Or even 1,000 Gold. Amazingly, the price is between 90 to 115 Gold!!! How exactly did these deals go unnoticed for so long?

I have a simple suggestion. Since this hasn’t been released yet, I would like to suggest that Anet put in a special title for people who decide to purchase all colors for the new Commander tags. Maybe a title like “Rainbow Warrior” or “Pot ’o Gold”. Heck, throw in 100 Achievement Points while you’re at it.

IceVyper.6810:

After reading the news about the new exclusive PVP armors, I cannot stop myself from wishing for a similar PVE counterpart. As it is now, the only prestige armor set in game, will be available for the 10-20 people that happen to win elite tournaments….

While I agree that top PVP players should get a special reward for their effords, I strongly believe that there should be a correspondant set for the people that prefer PVE.

I wish Anet would introduce an equally prestegius armor set, that could be craftable through PVE rewards and activities. I wouldn’t even mind paying 100 pristine relics per piece.

Before people start complaining that everything in PVE is easy so nothing will ever be prestigious: we have been lacking any kind of hard to obtain armor set, so now is the time to give us one of those. I am sure plenty of people will enjoy working towards one of those.

Wurm armor says hello: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wurmslayer's_armor

Lunaire.5827:

~~~ snip ~~~

Considering the fact that PvE players have 99% of the content (including weapons and armor) already, complaining about one single armor set seems to be a bit much.

I love that bakery! I go everyday to buy doughnuts, fritters, the occasional sponge cake, and even tarts. People who don’t like the goodies that the bakery makes can always go somewhere else. I also like the fact that every second Tuesday, the bakery offers free samples of new products.

Malediktus.9250:

Or you just want to boost the price now, so you can make a nice profit for yourself.

I’m offended that you’d think that I’d take the path of a manipulative trader. My post was formed based on sound reasoning.

FYI – Anet wouldn’t introduce a rare item drop, if it’s only used for a single part of a Living Story. So we can assume with high confidence that Foxfires will be used for other things. <cough>PrecursorCrafting<cough>

Translation: Speculators are eating up all cheap Foxfires on the TP, and might see their investments double or triple once more Living Story arcs are released.

Wanze.8410:

The biggest problem with raising the precursor droprate through any means, is that the economy is simply not prepared for it. You cant just simply inject a high volume of precursors into the market without imbalancing all ingredients for the other gifts.

We will have t6 fine mats at 1g, silver doubloons at 3g and who knows where lodestones will be?

So alot of droprates would have to be adjusted, otherwise it wouldnt make much sense. Sure, the people that have every gift except the precursor wouldnt care but in the long run, i dont think adjusting precursor droprates in any way is a wise move.

You saw through my veil. And here I thought you were on the TP Traders’ side. I don’t even know you anymore.

:3

phys.7689:

no, its technically gambling,
“Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize”

just because there is a standard payout of lower value doesnt mean its not a gamble, it just means you have better chances.
Essentially as long as some one is making the purchase/wager, with a hope of a certain outcome that they feel is profitable, its gambling.

Oh boy! Legal talk! Allow me to post my own quote from last year:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

/sigh

For Federal Lottery Laws, a lottery is a promotion that has three elements:
1) Prizes
2) Winners Chosen by Chance
3) Consideration

To avoid being classified as an illegal lottery, sweepstakes must ensure that at least one of these elements is missing. Because prizes and luck are central to sweepstakes where the winners are drawn at random, legitimate promotions can never have “consideration”.

Definition of “consideration”: In sweepstakes terms, consideration is simply payment for a prize. Generally, sweepstakes that award prizes by chance are not allowed to have an element of consideration. Consideration doesn’t have to be money; it can be anything that can profit the sponsor. For example, a company cannot require that entrants purchase a product to participate in sweepstakes (or, if they do, they must provide an alternate method of entry). You’ll hear the following a lot in the US: “No purchase necessary”

So purchasing Black Lion Chest Keys from the Gem Store requires the use of “Gems”. Gems can be either purchased via real money, or traded for with in game currency (i.e. Copper, Silver, and/or Gold).

Also, a few more things. Gems and all items either purchase or won from chests have no value, and are still property of NCSoft. You’re basically paying for the use of Gems and all items. Please refer to the User Agreement, section 4. “ACCOUNT AND PAYMENTS TO NCSOFT”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

I have a simple suggestion that would be a solution to all the “I can’t afford a Precursor” talk. In addition to Precursor crafting, which will probably have a lot of high requirements, why not allow players to purchase Precursors for 1,000 Laurels? Here are reason why this would work:

• It would combat the complaints that acquiring Precursors are too much RNG. By allowing it to be purchase from a Laurel merchant, people will then have something they can aim for, with guaranteed results

• By making it 1,000 Laurels, it shows the player’s dedication to the game. In order to reach such a number, the player must be highly active in doing Dailies and Monthlies. Precursors are one of the most sought after Luxury items in game, and what better way to reward dedicated players than to let them buy it? Also, the 1,000 Laurel benchmark helps to keep the value of Precursors high on the Trading Post.

• Options. Players like to have options. Right now, Precursors can only be received through luck or TP purchasing. Once Precursor crafting comes out, offering the ability to purchase directly from a merchant will then give players four (4) different way to acquire one.

In conclusion, allow players to buy Precursors with Laurels, but at a high price to keep their values steady. It’s good for the game!

The tagged mobs need to also die to get credit. A lot of Vets, Elites, and Champs spawn. If you’re tagging the Elites and Champs, and they don’t die before the phase ends, no credit is given.

Unfortunately, we need DPS on the boss fight. If you’re unable to meet the group’s standards, the vote kick is our option. This is no offense to you as a player, but just the group needing someone who can contribute more.

That only means it’s in demand. Sorry, but all is working as intended. You need to pay the price for an item with this high of a demand.

Edit – Just wanted to note that your obsession with this one Luxury item seems a bit much. Perhaps instead of complaining about the price, you go out and make one yourself? You just need to toss 4 Rare or Exotic Greatswords into the MF, and pray that RNG favors you. This is what we all do.

Chris.2587:

I spent the last hour or so on an undercutting war on the TP (on buy orders), one copper increment at a time. It’s silly, and it keeps players from actually playing the game.

A better solution would be to put a limit on undercuts, based on the value of the buy offer.

For example:
Let’s say the undercut limit is 5%. This means that if the highest buy offer on an item is 10g, I can either match it at 10g as well, or put a buy offer that is at least 5% more, which is 10.5g. Meaning, I can’t put a cheapshot buy offer of 10g and 1 copper. (Or I can post a buy offer at a lower value than 10g, of course.)

This ensures that the item reaches its “stable” market price faster. And players drop out of the bidding war faster, and so can actually spend time playing the game.

Or you could learn your lesson, and not participate in Price Wars. If someone else is actively trying to get that item, simply put in a Buy Order much higher. It’s entirely your fault for putting in 1 Copper increases on an item that you know someone else wants.

PS – It’s not called “undercutting”, it’s called out bidding

1) You’re not being cheated out of anything. The Blue, Green, and Yellow chests do not have Ascended gear. Only Blues, Greens, and the occasional Rare. Ascended boxes come from the Exotic and Boss chest

2) Are you participating in the Battery Defense phase? You gotta actively kill mobs targeting the Megalaser or Batteries.

It’s more efficient to just buy the keys from the Gem Store. I highly recommend getting a few hundred.

Remember, you’re not Entitled to Black Lion Tickets. These are optional prizes from Black Lion Chests. You have a chance to get them when you open the chest with Black Lion Keys. Players tend to be dissatisfied, because they forget that Anet doesn’t give anyone any guarantees of success.

Before you propose “solutions”, there must first be a “problem”. Because everything is working as intended, there really isn’t a need for guaranteed scraps. The current mechanics are simple: You have a chance to get a BL Ticket, or scraps to make one.

If you use the Gem Store booster, you get a +33% increased chance at drops. That’s not including any Banner or Guild boosts that you may have as well.

Simply delete your character and start over. I think that’s the best solution to your problem.

Kain Francois.4328:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This is where your problem is. Condi Necros are great in SPvP and WvW, but not so much against bosses.

Actually, Condi is AMAZING against this boss, since he is immune to crits and takes full duration of all conditions.

The problem is OP not wanting to learn the fight. Necros are masters of soft-cc and should be able to breeze this fight very easily by crippling menders while condis melt the statue.

Has OP tried using Fear on the menders?

Ah, I had no idea that this was a Learn to Play issue. I assumed the statue was like the Shatterer or other World Boss, where condi damage is laughable. It’s good to know that condi is still viable in PvE.

Shpongle.6025:

I was using a full rabid gear exo+ascended rabid spec condi necro.

This is where your problem is. Condi Necros are great in SPvP and WvW, but not so much against bosses.

Did you know that the odds of you getting the exact same Green items in the same WvW Rank chest is so astronomically low, that you, technically, hit the RNG jackpot?

AlphaNeonic.1925:

I think some of the pricing on this stuff is WAY off. Let’s discuss!

100 gems – 14g – $1.25

Did you know that you can exchange in-game Gold for Gems? When you do this, it’s free!

100 Gems – 14 Gold – $0.00

Run Dungeons, Fractals, and World Bosses. Those can give a Gold and up per run, plus whatever drops you may get. You have too little Gold to attempt any meaningful flipping on the TP.

Blasphemy! The Holy Lord Flameram only looks out after Maguuma.

I disagree John. That response shows you’re human, and makes you more approachable. Even If we were to disagree on aspects of the in-game economy, we prefer you add in some mild snark every now and then, over a “professor-like” attitude.

Edit – Heck, that’s the whole reason a lot of us like you over other Anet employees.

phys.7689:

tolunart.2095:

I don’t believe that is your motivation. Nothing in your posts suggests an attitude of curiosity, understanding or cooperation. All you do is constantly insist that the established methods of doing something are wrong and that it should be done better, without offering any concrete evidence that this is so, let alone being able to suggest how to improve it.

When JS asked for evidence that there was a problem, you made no attempt to provide this, you just insisted that there was a problem and he should be able to see it without being provided any evidence. Even though he said that he sees nothing wrong, essentially you claimed that you knew more about the TP than an educated professional who was in charge of it, and who has vastly more information about how it works than you do.

In short, I think your purpose here is to stonewall discussion and enjoy the attention as other players continue to try to explain the same concepts over and over. I have not seen you come to any kind of understanding over several months of posts that never go beyond “there is a problem because I feel there is a problem.”

just because you dont believe something, doesnt mean you are right, The reason you percieve me a certain way is because based on your preconcieved notions, you always interpret everything i say with a certain bias or color.

I say how does one determine there is a problem, and you interpret it is as me saying there is a problem.

I say how could one design an economy that is fulfills XYZ and you start talking about the mechanics of this economy.

you are always looking for a fight, or thinking everything is about being on one side or another. Im not on anyone side. Im actually evaluating things based on real actual things rather than being a fan or an anti-fan.

You’re like a seasoned politician. You’re really good at debating, and know how to spin questions to hide the true intents. On the outside, your questions may seem harmless, but when you take your posting history into account, your motives are quite clear. Take the following recent post you made:

phys.7689:

I mean, millions of players quit the game, how many quit due to an unsatisfying economy? .

You took a grossly negative and misleading comment, and then coupled it with valid question. It’s like someone saying to me “Congrats on your PhD, Penguin. Bet it was easy since your grandfather left an endowment to the university.”

John Smith.4610:

phys.7689:

John Smith.4610:

Psientist.6437:

John Smith.4610:

Ayrilana.1396:

He’s referring to the conversion rates of gem and gold within the gem store most likely.

Ah, I see.
As a note, while RMT is accurate, it is generally used to refer to third party traders, hence my confusion.

This is not a returned volley:

Thank you John Smith for asking for clarification, thank you Ayrilana for providing clarification, pardon me not clarifying myself in a timely manner.

The RMT label is accurately applied to Arenanet et al. ‘You’ have collapsed the traditional third party responsibilities of RMT into the responsibilities of Arenanet et al.

Question

Have you as a game theory economist ever considered partnering with other game theory economists to create the backbone for a third party neutral RMT company that would provide RMT services to participating game worlds?

I have thought of it, I think it would be very interesting to have new worlds to work inside constantly and honestly more games need to start using economists. I also have extremely negative feelings about third party RMT because I watch them steal and destroy what players have created and it sickens me. Competing them out of business would be worth it alone.

how could you compete them out of business without having similar effects, and employing similar tactics?
Essentially how can you compete with people who operate above the laws, in a completely self interested fashion?

Their tactics must be combated inside the game as well.

To add to John’s reply, a solution to the RMT problems in MMOs is not to compete with them by starting Price Wars. If a game company lowers the costs for in-game currency purchasing, RMTs just drop their prices even lower. The end result of any type of Price War is an oversupply of cheap in-game currency, which leads to inflation of the in-game economy.

The best deterrent to RMTs is to take away the player’s incentive to make such transactions, which is the banning of accounts.

tolunart.2095:

I don’t believe that is your motivation. Nothing in your posts suggests an attitude of curiosity, understanding or cooperation. All you do is constantly insist that the established methods of doing something are wrong and that it should be done better, without offering any concrete evidence that this is so, let alone being able to suggest how to improve it.

When JS asked for evidence that there was a problem, you made no attempt to provide this, you just insisted that there was a problem and he should be able to see it without being provided any evidence. Even though he said that he sees nothing wrong, essentially you claimed that you knew more about the TP than an educated professional who was in charge of it, and who has vastly more information about how it works than you do.

In short, I think your purpose here is to stonewall discussion and enjoy the attention as other players continue to try to explain the same concepts over and over. I have not seen you come to any kind of understanding over several months of posts that never go beyond “there is a problem because I feel there is a problem.”

Well said. I’ve seen his attempts to get John to help him discover ways to find his assumed problems. Most people here can tell he’s been throwing uncooked spaghetti at the wall, and trying to see what sticks.

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

phys.7689:

You guys are mistaken in the assumption that legendaries are supposed to primarily be something for rich people to buy, it supposed to be a merit based goal, though i think we can say now, that its kind of far from that.

Merit based goal that’s inherently expensive and unnecessary.

Luxury items:

• Precursors
• Legendaries
• BL Ticket skins
• My wife’s Coach purse and matching boots
• My Gucci hat

something merit based isnt a luxury, its supposed to be an achievement. Like winning a pulitzer prize, or designing a building in NYC if your an architecht.

to be honest when they made legendaries they had no idea they would cost this much for a precursor. (which they kind of should have known) this is why at one point they said they were a bit too expensive and they would watch it. (this was when it was like what 300 gold?)

many things didnt go exactly as they may have thought. Some things should theoretically be baking as we speak. But legendary was not supposed to be your gucci hat. Thats supposed to be the gem store stuff.

I honestly think they need some items that would fall more in line with luxuries, marketed and designed to be gold focused rewards/endeavors. Treasure goblin back packs that drop money. golden pistols that shoot coins. Extravagant housing (if they ever add housing) but legendaries werent meant to fill that role.

It’s an initial achievement that can be sold on the TP , thus making it a luxury good. And you can’t make a Legendary without a Precursor, which is also a luxury good.

Edit – Colin might not have anticipated the costs, but I’m sure John did.

Edit 2 – If Legendaries were Account Bound upon crafting, then your argument might hold more water. But even then, I could also argue that it’s a luxury achievement.