The celestial guardians and warriors were in finals of ESLs and I believe the WTS. lol.
Lol.
Warriors and guardians use celestial. Besides it is not the amulet alone that is the cause of the worst issues.
Doesn’t matter. You already have the choice to have a boonstrip or not, and the thief boonstrip is not the best boon strip in the world. Two boons stripped every 21.5 seconds provided someone doesn’t random dodge your steal. Only thing that makes it better than sigil of nullification is you rip stab and one more boon.
The game shouldn’t be balanced for roaming builds or one shot builds. Scepter eles already have the highest burst or close to it in the game. Buffing them higher is just lol.
So use a Sigil of Nullification. There’s opportunity costs to all builds.
Eles don’t need boon strips because Scepter builds.
There is a guy who is 13 and 22 that is #10.
Losses on this leaderboard are too generous.
What the OP and others forget is people duo queueing. Had two thieves on my team who were queuing together, and another thief. Somehow we still won.
the game is just boring with this meta, tank meta full prot & heal & dispell.
a 2v2 can take 4min, boring.
Celestial must be nerf, balanced, what you want.
This is LOL.
This isn’t tank meta at all compared to the past.
The point is is you get better at a particular class by playing it repetitively. I’d rather not play class-X to get achievements when I need to get better on another class…
My team kinda was in farm mode and I guess didn’t read chat when I noticed that one player had zero points.
What I’m suggesting is perhaps adding points for contesting points or something a player can do in game that makes the game aware that they were in fact trying and not just afking so they get credit.
Their intent is to get players to try new things. Unfortunately this means they likely won’t make changes that conflict with this.
I’ve tried every class as is xD
The main issue I see with this is it hampers players like me who are trying to get really good on a specific class.
I don’t want to play any classes besides the one I am focused on currently. Is there any way to rework the sPvP achievements so players can focus on a single class without losing out on achievements?
I accidentally clicked Unranked on my queue, and left queue and switched to Rank. I got two queue pops. One was so fast I couldn’t tab back in and click ready, and the next one was the Unranked pop that I should have canceled. This is not the first time the queue system has popped a canceled queue for me.
The other issue is that the map chosen was Skyhammer. The other team had one player leave at start, and another tried to leave and kept getting put back into the game… so it was a 5v3 for my team. One player on the other team I saw actively tried to play but never scored any points. I felt bad for that team and I just capped one point and stood around so maybe the player could get some points but he never did. I feel like there should be ways that players should be able to gain some credit for these types of games.
Might stacking on itself is fine, it just empowers already too strong asssets such as high burning uptime and high power coeficients even further.
You have to nerf the main culprits (regardless of build) of the particular professions instead of might stacking as whole.
For instance:
For engineer we have:
Incendiary Powder— This is among the strongest traits engineers have, I know it, you know it, we know it; this needs to be moved to grandmaster tier and a clear proc tell added to it. This trait is such a nobrainer that master tier traits no longer have a choise (illusion of choise?). Engineers should choose between being a great granadier or a fire spitting machine, but not both. By a single granade throw I can recieve vulnerability, poison, bleeding and burning; way too much condi overload, too easy and too passive. Celestial and might stacking further worsens this in addition to the already high power coheficient of granades, but, again, might stacking and cele are not the main problem here.Healing turret— Coupled with Backpack Regenerator, this thing provides almost bunkerlike sustain, regadless of amulet. It’s clearly an issue as it also has no castime, even if it needs more actions to achive full potential, that doesn’t seem to be a problem for decent players. The healing per second is just too strong on an already very resourceful profession.
Tool Kit’s Gear Shield— The block uptime is too generous, period. You, too, know that. On a profession that can have so much utility, so many skills at once, so many tools, no CD on weapon swap on kits; the fact that it vastly oupaces Warrior’s Shield Stace is wrong on so many levels.
Overcharged Shot— It needs a cast time. The selfknockback is not enough of a penalty for such a reward. It’s a launch on a 15 sec CD for gods sake! Maybe, just remove the selfknockack altogether and put a cast time and a decent tell on it.
For elementalists we have:
Elemental Attunemet’s Earth protection duration, is way, way too much, people take this trait just for this boon alone. Protection is by far the strongest defensive boon with a flat reduction of a third of all direct damage (Vigor being a close second imo); it’s also AoE for your entire party, which is huge. You just tell me 6 seconds of swifness on Air provides the same boon quality as Earth’s 6 second of protection, hum… that logic is not followed on the Fire’s might though.
In addition to that, they have Elemental Shielding which further increases their already high protection uptime making it almost permanently up in combat. Protection should not be a boon you can maintain passively by just doing your normal attack rotations. If you see a spike coming, just switch to earth or activate an aura, with said boon being perma up, and the already incredible healing elementalists spout out, it just doesn’t matter most of the time. Elementalists are all about active defenses, but their passive ones such as these, are over the top; protection uptime should be reduced, one way or another.
Drake’s Breath and Ring of Fire— Drake’s Breath has a decent power scaling but it also applies a ridiculous amount of burning AoE, just like Righ of Fire. You cross Ring of Fire twice in a row (something that will happen midcombat) and you get almost 10 seconds of burning alone… well… shiiat. Both Drake’s Breath and Ring of Fire’s burning application should be reduced.
I wont lie and I’ll say that I feel Elementalists selfhealing seems a little too much as well, but honestly, great selfhealing has always been their main perk, I wouldn’t touch that from Eles just yet.
I wouldn’t touch Might stacking, is has the potential to bring lots of viable specs into play, and I love that. Nerfing that would directly affect every other profession, it’s a big nono.
Pretty sure you wouldn’t touch might stacking because it somehow helps whatever build you are running.
Touching might stacking is the only way to fairly adjust eles and engies. All the stuff you posted about above besides IP would pretty much subjugate both classes into being “out of the meta”. Whereas toning down the power and condi increase of might stacking and maybe shaving the celestial amulets stats a little would not harm any class mechanics.
No.
Thanks for your bias and valuable contribution to this discussion!
Really?
You are the one who wants to literally nerf a class into the ground. If there’s any biasedness here, it’s on your part.
Uhhh no.
I don’t think classes that grant might “normally” need to be touched. Only classes that stack it. The idea of being able to spam self-combos that frequently seems somewhat abnormal in the original spirit of the game (two players combining their skills to create something bigger than the sum of their parts).
Would you rather we touch your precious vigor or protection duration? Or get rid of Celestial amulets altogether?
PS: I’m currently playing something that stacks might even harder than your ele.
Why am I advocating nerfing might stacking to the ground? Because I’m tired of killing people with sustain and Geomancy sigils and would like other warrior builds to become viable again.
PPS: I’d even be okay buffing might to +45 or 50 if we reduced the duration from stacking.
Hint: If you’re not using Hammer, don’t talk about your class not being viable.
No.
Thanks for your bias and valuable contribution to this discussion!
Really?
You are the one who wants to literally nerf a class into the ground. If there’s any biasedness here, it’s on your part.
Either reducing might duration by a small percentage and/or lowering celestial amulet stats by a small percentage would do the trick easier, simpler, without destroying classes, or creating other balance problems.
I agree with OP with diagnosis but the suggested solution to might stacking is a huge overnerf and would also split the function of might between pvp and wvw and pve.
The guy I was replying to wants easier access to boon removal for a reason.
I mentioned in another thread replying to 5gauge my solution to might stacking would be to drop the power and condi increase from 35 to 25. Like Acandis says in the OP. I have no problem with might stacks getting shaved, but Eles are already susceptible to burst, and Cele Ele isn’t the only builds you have to think about.
It isn’t the sustain that’s the issue with cele eles. It’s the damage output.
No.
Thanks for your bias and valuable contribution to this discussion!
Really?
You are the one who wants to literally nerf a class into the ground. If there’s any biasedness here, it’s on your part.
Reduce the might duration granted by battle sigils and blasting fire fields by half.
I don’t think addressing might alone will be nearly enough to bring eles back down though.
Also, boon removal needs to be far more accessible.
No.
None of this stuff besides maybe a window pane for Leaderboard should be in the game.
Shout warrior isn’t strong. It’s actually a pretty horrendous build to play outside of zerging in wvw. Even more atrocious when you put LB on it instead of hammer.
There are a whole slough of DPS oriented warrior builds that would have actual impacts on team fights. If you need someone to sit on a point, there’s better things to have do it.
Shoutcasters won’t help that problem out. The internet is not a hotbed of maturity.
Either Mods need to diffuse the situation, sub mode gets activated, or let the good times troll.
It’s a trust issue.
People can’t even say “Hi” or “I’m going to home node” at the start of the match. They live and play in their own world and don’t care about their team.
I think it is hard for people to care about their teams when solo queueing. There are a lot of newer players who don’t understand maps and tactics involved within them. From my perspective when you have three people killing Svanir in Forest while whoever went mid gets zerged down it leaves a bad taste in more experienced players mouths.
I tend not to talk much. As half the time I feel like I just don’t have anything nice to say, or when I do have nice teams, everyone is doing what they should be doing anyhow.
I kinda figure that new players will either learn on their own or just lose a ton of games. When I have told people that came from wvw into spvp why you don’t do certain things I have been sassed, so it isn’t worth my time.
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Quake Con had 1v1s, not team play, in the beginning, and there were so many ladders for Quake 3 that I find that your claim of being on the best team in the world to be very dubious.
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I have won the majority of my games this weekend, and I am not exactly the best player there is. I suspect OP and others complaining have some work of their own to do to get better.
People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.
Something you and a lot of people fail to take into account is that sometimes you’re forced to use a certain roster with people who main certain classes.
In your case, you’re looking at the team who ran double Engi. They had success, thus, double Engi OP, pls balance.
What if Necro is stronger than a second Engineer? (It is.) That means you should stop asserting double Engineer is OP, because it’s not optimal.
I do take into account people who main certain classes. If engineers were shuffled down the hierarchy of classes in a patch, do you think your roster would have included both you and OE if there was another class that filled a role better than one of you two could? Provided of course a player could have gone in place of either of you.
I also know you are very defensive of engineers. I have one and have a decent game count on it on my other account. I play an ele currently. My preference is that neither class gets nerfed into the ground, but rather if things need to be shaved a little to bring them in line with other classes, so be it.
I know how badly you want to use the Abjured’s roster to justify what you’re saying but there was literally nobody to sub for the Abjured who was strong and not doing the WTS Quals themselves.
Double Engi is really questionable in my books. Like double War. Just best to not.
Ok, answer this question honestly, but first we have to make a hypothetical world.
Lets suppose all classes are balanced equally.
Lets also suppose that all classes brought equal team oriented mechanics to the table.
The final supposition would be you had a pool of eight players of same talent levels on a roster.
Would there ever be need for overlapping classes or instances on team comps?
Now ask yourself honestly if there’s not some correlation of players choosing some classes in favor of others because of the hierarchy of classes because the way their currently balanced. It is not by coincidence players start rolling engineers and elementalists that they did not already have.
You will defend your class because you’re biased. My engineer is the first toon I ever created. I love the class. I also love elementalist. They have been the most challenging classes for me to play at any level approaching “decent”. But if we compare classes across the board Eles and Engies are currently 1 and 2 in the pecking order.
ps. If I were to nerf anything, it would be changing might stacks’ power and condi increase from 35 downwards to 30 or 25 or some lower value that seems reasonable after testing. I don’t think it would harm any build or class irreparably.
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People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.
Something you and a lot of people fail to take into account is that sometimes you’re forced to use a certain roster with people who main certain classes.
In your case, you’re looking at the team who ran double Engi. They had success, thus, double Engi OP, pls balance.
What if Necro is stronger than a second Engineer? (It is.) That means you should stop asserting double Engineer is OP, because it’s not optimal.
I do take into account people who main certain classes. If engineers were shuffled down the hierarchy of classes in a patch, do you think your roster would have included both you and OE if there was another class that filled a role better than one of you two could? Provided of course a player could have gone in place of either of you.
I also know you are very defensive of engineers. I have one and have a decent game count on it on my other account. I play an ele currently. My preference is that neither class gets nerfed into the ground, but rather if things need to be shaved a little to bring them in line with other classes, so be it.
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You’re comparing Apples to Oranges.
It isn’t by sheer coincidence that TCG lost two matches in a week’s time to teams sporting two engineers. Engineers might have less sustain than eles, but they bring a whole lot of team fights that other classes do not.
Maybe TCG is just worse then those teams?gasp and maybe they need to update their comp. Atleast the engis die tho, ask any other pro player, they will say the same thing.
PS: They also both have 2 cele eles that peel for the engis.
Whether or not TCG needs to rethink their comp is irrelevant. The fact that two teams brought two team engies is the relevant part. People wouldn’t bring two of the same classes if the classes weren’t OP.
Much of your analysis has been based off of individual stuff, not whether or not classes are synergistic in teams. Which is more important than individual stuff. Eles and engies both are synergistic. Both are OP.
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I can kinda understand how they might seem OP at lower levels of play, but they are just sooo susceptible to damage. First of all they get hard countered by condis, they have 1 stunbreaker on a very long CD, and they just die soooo quickly. If i’m in a teamfight and I want to down someone really quick 90% of the time i’ll pick the engi because of their limited disengage, 1 stunbreaker, and long cast time. Unlike cele D/d where they can GTFO instantly, out-sustain two people no problem, they have two stunbreakers, and do all this w/o even having to worry about their heal getting interrupted.
You’re comparing Apples to Oranges.
It isn’t by sheer coincidence that TCG lost two matches in a week’s time to teams sporting two engineers. Engineers might have less sustain than eles, but they bring a whole lot of team fights that other classes do not.
Engineer not OP? By what metric are you using to make that statement?
If you believe that item quality and character level has any impact on spvp then I think we need to start at the very beginning.
Troll all you like, but when the NA pvp scene is underwhelming compared to EU because all the BM and egoism that goes on here, it’s more sad than funny.
All I learned was that Nos is a scumbag in game and irl.
There are two sides to every story, take a magic carpet ride with Noscoc.
1:13:00
No offense, but that doesn’t really excuse some of Noscoc’s commentary about regular Joes facing a five man premade team like Abjured and friends. You can expect that kind of behavior from a teenager, but you are all college aged men and should carry some class into games.
Huh? Do you have any quotes or examples of what commentary you are even talking about?
Go through his past broadcasts of you guys farming dudes. There are some general comments that have been made on that stream that just comes across as mean spirited towards players who are most likely new.
Not saying that because I dislike Nos. I think for the most part he seems alright. Just some things he has said made me cringe. Pointing that out because you got young kids looking up to you guys and I think anybody in your position you guys should be teaching them why doing some things are wrong.
All I learned was that Nos is a scumbag in game and irl.
There are two sides to every story, take a magic carpet ride with Noscoc.
1:13:00
No offense, but that doesn’t really excuse some of Noscoc’s commentary about regular Joes facing a five man premade team like Abjured and friends. You can expect that kind of behavior from a teenager, but you are all college aged men and should carry some class into games.
Meaning what for solo q? Won’t we will always be kitten because of premades? Sounds like solo q is just disappearing then.
Meaning nothing for queuing solo. You can play the way you wish, we won’t stop you. I just meant we want people to form teams and play together.
You do realize that random people on random teams queueing solo aren’t going to form teams because of a leaderboard? This didn’t really occur much under the older system, what makes you think it would change now?
I strongly believe creating automated tournaments that run 24/7 like online poker sites have, where people earn gold, or skins, or some other incentive would encourage new teams to form. There has to be a stronger reason than some leaderboard that doesn’t mean much to casual players and people still learning.
There’s a two-fold problem with using leaderboards to try to promote that, and doing away with solo queues. People who aren’t coordinating in games like people queueing by themselves, like me, do not get to know the other players on my team because either we did poorly and people pass the blame around and get salty, or we won and it’s off to the next game. The second issue is that getting high on the leaderboard to win a mini llama or whatnot isn’t enough of an incentive for people to want to #tryhard and #believe with 4 other dudes.
You mainly set solo queuers ability progress as individuals back doing this, because our skills levels won’t develop when we are getting farmed by premades.
If you left matches before the update I have no real sympathy for you now.
EDIT: I just saw your edit, and yeah I’m not against watching streamers, but my point is to use what they teach and show you to be better than them rather than imitation.
Yeah. What I meant by imitation, is you imitate just the basic stuff like might stacking rotations on ele until it becomes a part of your own mechanics.
I’m currently learning d/d ele. I figured out the very basic might stacking rotation on my own just by reading skills. Watched some players and videos for other stuff that showed me more in depth might stacking rotations. Saw other things I could be doing better as well.
I played against you the other day… and I will say that I couldn’t go through my normal rotations against you because you were putting way too much pressure on me on your engie. That’s why I agree with your sentiments. A lot of new players get stuck trying to play in a certain frame of mind and that’s where not purely imitating whoever your influences can be problematic.
It’s kinda why I get a kick out of this new queueing system. I know you would have probably beaten because you have way more experience than me, but fighting guys like you gives me a sort of measuring stick of where I am and where I need to go.
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2. Don’t try to be like your role model, be yourself, and strive to better than the best:
If you try to become like the person on your stream, you’ll pick up their habits, and try to play like them. You’ll be predictable and will be easy to read. It is good to have one, but don’t try to be them. Change it up and be YOU. They teach you things, but use those teachings to perfect your own way of playing.
I think is somewhat not the best best way to put it.
Think watching streamers and picking up on what they’re doing in matches is a good way to learn. It has helped me infinitely. Before I even started to spvp seriously I knew the maps better and how the game mode works than true newbies to spvp. Watching some streamers I picked up on core stuff they do.
I kind of view it like guitar playing. You start with a few simple chords and try to imitate your influences, but over time you find more influences and start developing your own style.
EDIT: I agree with your sentiment. But I think new players should watch streamers, just learn the fundamentals from them and watch more than one person playing the class you have chosen.
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Backpack has valid points even if he doesn’t articulate them in a mature manner.
Teams shouldn’t really be punished for playing together, and the leaderboard shouldn’t be a grinderboard.
Anet’s spvp team ought to think about some other system to encourage teams to play.
It’s why the merging of team and solo queue was bad in my opinion. It can never treat teams and individuals together in a fair manner.
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You think you won’t be high on the leader boards?
Nope, probably won’t break top 100 because I refuse to pub stomp my way to the top. My playstyle is to team queue when other teams are playing, for quality matches and to not annoy people who aren’t expecting to face an Abjured pug. I might play 25-30 games a week.
That bothers you doesn’t it
What would you suggest? I can queue up and stomp you and other unsuspecting, average players for 20 hours a week if you’d prefer. I’d definitely be top rated!
Do you see why incentivizing top teams to do this in order to stay competitive is bad?
I do not see how revamping leader boards and giving out glorious armor/llama finishers somehow is an incentive to top players
That is clearly something that is geared towards bringing in new/casual/average players
The only incentive for you guys to play and practice is money tournaments – Do you really care about the leader boards? Does it matter if you are not in the top 100?
If the system is well done I think you guys will be represented in the top of the leader boards regardless
This last part is vital to the games success. I posted this many times over the last year on the forums. Please don’t sacrifice this ideal because it is so important. Some people will QQ about it. But they have vested interests. It is so important that less skilled people who play alot are rewarded.
I think what people might be forgetting, is that we also have tournaments, ESL cups, etc. to cater to those who want skill to be the absolute determinant.
What should it be based on other than skill? Lol effort???
How do you measure individual skill of a player when they’re in a regular team?
My personal opinion is the developers need to reassess the solo queue and team queue split.
I think automated team tournaments that are for gold rewards would be more beneficial than leaderboards for team play. There are how many top tier teams? Most premades I come across in queues aren’t entirely serious teams. Put a bigger incentive than a leaderboard into the game and maybe you would start seeing better teams arise.
not at all. but if you need attention go ask for a scrim against the Abjured.
you should probably just stay in the wvw jp
pick 4 people from your roster and ask Abjured for a scrim. it would be entertaining.
GvG guild trying to troll spvp lol
Engineers not making huge impacts on matches?
Thanks for the answer. I couldn’t find the algorithm to look at it even though I had seen it in a previous thread somewhere.
WvW or gvg section —-—————————————->
EDIT: Would like to see you duel any of the members on their roster.
Are points for ressing team mates, capping pts, etc taken into account in the new system?
I read somewhere that you could face very good premades and still earn points.
The reason why I ask is because if there are ingame stats being taken into account, what are these stats and how can you account for roles classes take?