Guild Wars 2

Arken.3725:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Arken.3725:

Their main draw is condition dmg(a bit more physical for cele engie). The amount of sustained dmg coupled with their ability to sustain themselves is what’s the issue. Not a lot of these skills are easily avoidable(Overcharged shot being 1). Hell, even though a lot of the Elementalist’s skills are easy to avoid, there’s only so much you can dodge, you’re going to eat something.

Edit: Still baffles me, after 5 pages of discussion and repeated arguments that some still don’t see the issue’s with the two classes mentioned. Either it’s extreme bias for those who play them or pure ignorance.

Engi definitely has some very hard abilities to avoid (possible, but super super hard). I’m talking pretty much exclusively about ele in this case though. Dodging isn’t the only way to avoid damage. Every build has other methods of shutting down ele damage. Even if you do eat something, it’s not the end of the world.

Since the nerf, there hasn’t really been a moment for me where I went “WOW that damage” from an ele. Maybe engineer, but they’re speccing into it. Not surprising.

I think my biggest issue if I were to put it simply is there’s too much room for error for these professions. Making a mistake or two won’t cost them at all in comparison to the rest of the professions.

Edit: and yes, you’re right that there are more ways to avoid damage aside from dodging but my point remains is there’s still not enough in terms of avoidance OR there’s too much on the offensive side.

Engie doesn’t have any more room for error than a few guardian builds. You eat a big burst from a mesmer you’re going to be cycling through CDs on both class. The major difference I think is engies always have swiftness where as guardians lack it depending on builds to mitigate damage with kiting.

Cele rifle isn’t “tanky”. You are conflating sustain for the ability to tank.

I honestly think that cele engies and eles are in the right spot, and all the other classes are lacking. Logistically speaking I would prefer Anet’s balance team to work on buffing the other classes up to those levels than nerfing down classes to unplayable.

jportell.2197:

SobeSoul.6910:

Archaon.9524:

SobeSoul.6910:

I’m tired of having to take the brunt of team fights because clueless people like the person in this screenshot have no clue what needs to be done in matches.

An ele who has no clue what rotation or team healing or anything isn’t someone I enjoy playing with.

Ladder is worthless (With pve tryhards farming losses and still getting points for it, being top ladder with 40% win ratio) why ppl still bother to go ranked anyway? It’s just longer q times

Courtyard, Skyhammer, and Spirit Watch aren’t my idea of fun.

Of course the ladder is bad, but unranked is also like Hotjoin 2.0b.

Then ranked is hotjoin 3.0 had a turret engi say “Everyone burn the beast down fast then rush to mid!” And i’m over here like, so “they have a thief, beast is bad idea” and still they went after it

and still the thief stole it.

So yeah.

You’re not the one to really complain about peoples’ plays in game. I blocked you because you flooded team chat with rage in a game in the first game I ever came across you.

Stuff like that makes you a liability as much as a day one player who somehow stumbles into ranked matches.

Yep. GF and Paradigm were mediocre Kappa

xDudisx.5914:

Shiyo.3578:

Nerfing ele’s damage further would make the class really boring to play imo. d/d playstyle is already boring enough as is.

Well maybe that way eles would try to spend some traits into offensive traitlines and use offensive amulets?

So tell me and everyone else what are the offensive traits that would be useful and what you would give up in the water or arcana trees to get them.

i lol’d

/15chars

I don’t mind premades if I’m solo queueing unless it’s like the high-end tourney teams. Most other teams are completely beatable as long as you and the other people on your team understand where to go and why.

Mogar.9216:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Mogar.9216:

Problem is you’ll just end up with long Q time as everyone will q unranked to finish their daily.

How so? How would queues be longer if the game used class-based MMR instead of account MMR? It’s just a different number stored in a different spot in the database. The matchmaking algorithm should be the same.

I was replying to the op, not to your class based mmr system. I think class based mmr is a good idea might be too much work for them to code though.

Huh? I never mentioned class based mmr.

Mogar.9216:

Problem is you’ll just end up with long Q time as everyone will q unranked to finish their daily.

I personally don’t mind 5-7 min queue times versus 2-3 min pops if it means more competitive matches with people who understand map mechanics a little better than casual players.

I don’t try to lash out at players, but there are a lot who could queue unranked for their dailies and not be a burden or liability in ranked.

Sorel.4870:

You know it’s ranger daily when the weekly daily rant pops up!

Had nothing to do with rangers. The guy I SS’d was an ele. The dailies have given incentive to people who don’t play classes or spvp regularly. I wouldn’t personally mind this if it was only unranked and practice arenas.

I want to play against better players because it’s the only way I’ll get better. These dailies throw a kink into that process. Think filtering out AP farmers and people into phat lewtz from Ranked would help promote a better environment for teams to form, etc.

Archaon.9524:

SobeSoul.6910:

I’m tired of having to take the brunt of team fights because clueless people like the person in this screenshot have no clue what needs to be done in matches.

An ele who has no clue what rotation or team healing or anything isn’t someone I enjoy playing with.

Ladder is worthless (With pve tryhards farming losses and still getting points for it, being top ladder with 40% win ratio) why ppl still bother to go ranked anyway? It’s just longer q times

Courtyard, Skyhammer, and Spirit Watch aren’t my idea of fun.

Of course the ladder is bad, but unranked is also like Hotjoin 2.0b.

jportell.2197:

SobeSoul.6910:

Bhawb.7408:

Or rework the daily system so that it doesn’t end up forcing a bunch of players onto random professions that they don’t want to play and are awful at when a large portion of the community prefers to only play a single (or very small number) of professions.

I’d prefer if they are gonna bribe people with phat lewtz that they just rework the whole darn thing. Give us like 5 gems for a loss and 10 gems for a win or something and maybe bonus gems for certain achievements. People who are dedicated to spvp seem only to care about skins.

They used to give out gems actually.

Don’t recall that. Do remember getting skins and dyes from forge when I first drifted from wvw to spvp.

Bhawb.7408:

Or rework the daily system so that it doesn’t end up forcing a bunch of players onto random professions that they don’t want to play and are awful at when a large portion of the community prefers to only play a single (or very small number) of professions.

I’d prefer if they are gonna bribe people with phat lewtz that they just rework the whole darn thing. Give us like 5 gems for a loss and 10 gems for a win or something and maybe bonus gems for certain achievements. People who are dedicated to spvp seem only to care about skins.

I’m tired of having to take the brunt of team fights because clueless people like the person in this screenshot have no clue what needs to be done in matches.

An ele who has no clue what rotation or team healing or anything isn’t someone I enjoy playing with.

Eurantien.4632:

Mrbig.8019:

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

Mesmer beats cele ele

Toker beats mesmer.

The Artist Formely Known as Toker doesn’t beat what I’m referring to. That should more or less read thief doesn’t be it. But the match up might be 50/50 considering the class/build has to be 100% efficient with CD usage against the Ele.

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

TheFamster.7806:

Have you watched the old matches before the celestial meta? Do you know how boring it was? It was about bunker guardians, spirit rangers and hambow warriors and everyone fighting for one node while each kept their home nodes, and with constant insta rez as well as super tankiness that made the game look really boring. Basically there were only 5 professions (guardian, warrior, ranger, mesmer and thief) and extreme zerg control.
I’d watch fight spread evenly across the node, where the rotation becomes extremely important as well as individual skills to 1v1/2v2 constantly while calculating the respawn timers instead of winning a one combat that lasts 1/3 of the match length which ultimately decides which team wins the game.

This is exactly what I came to this thread to ask about.

If we look at old metas, we have:

1. Bunker (2-3 Bunkers, 2-3 Burst)
2. Warrior (Guardian Bunker, 2-3 warriors, thief and other)
3. Decap (Decap engi, 2 bunkers, 2 DPS)
4. Berserker (Looooong time ago. Lots of DPS)

Now we have the celestial meta.

1. Do you guys prefer this meta to past metas?
2. If you could rebalance the game so ALL of these comps were viable, would you? Do you want to face meta viable Decap/bunker/berserker teams?
3. One thing lost on the celestial meta is rotating the right players to the right locations. While it is definitely still there, it’s not as important as the days were necros were chasing down engineers and guardians had to be in the team fights. Do you like this about the celestial meta? Do you prefer the rotational requirements of other metas or the mechanical requirements of the celestial meta?
4. Generally celestial comps take 2-4 celestial players and the rest are sort of open depending on how defensive/offensive you want your team to be. Do you want celestial builds for all classes so that the role that elementalist/engineer/warrior fill right now could be filled by any class?

Anet devs needs to go through trait lines, amulets, runes, and sigils all at once.

Bunker meta was boring. However, the fact bunk guardians are out of the meta is bad. Was wvwing so didn’t taste the zerk meta. Ideally we wouldn’t have AI builds that are as potent as they can be in solo queue.

Solstice.1097:

Abjured is incredibly good but it would be so much more fun to watch closer games, so I’d really like to see someone give them a run for their money someday soon.

Here’s how I think it can be done.

1. You need 2 people who can stalemate Wakkey and Phantaram I sincerely doubt you are going to kill either of them 1v1, but you need to at least be able to stalemate the side nodes.

2. You need someone who can keep Toker’s attention Most likely this has to be a LB Ranger or Mesmer. This person might have to be the best player on the team, because you have to be bursty enough that Toker has no choice but to take you out, and survivable (good) enough to not let him do it. This person might want to swap a thing or two in their build to be slightly more survivable.

3. You need 2 people who can beat Fivegauge and Noscoc in a 2v2 Maybe a zerker hambow and a celestial staff elementalist… i really don’t know what the best comp for this is going to be, but it’s gotta happen.

So if you can stalemate their ele’s 1v1 and keep toker’s attention and basically turn the game into a 2v2 vs Nos and Fivegauge, and WIN that 2v2, then you can out rotate them from there by playing man-to-man defense and matching numbers everywhere.

But I don’t think any team that hasn’t been together for at least several months could pull this off. So stick together, teams! Stop trying to change out players every month because you didn’t win… part of the reason you didn’t win is because you change out players every month!! XD

THM probably could’ve beaten Abjured at some point.

If I was on a team, I’d go back and look at the WTS qualifiers and watch that match up between the two and see what THM did well and improve upon it.

Crell.6401:

wwwes.1398:

Not many average players that I see. If it’s possible to get paired up with average players, then please for the love of God, pair me up with them.

There’s newbies and there’s champion players. That’s pretty much all I ever see. When I started playing pvp, I didn’t have a fantastic record, but I could hold my own. And we had some decent matches. Now I’ve played and gotten to rank 49, all I ever get paired with are players way better than I am. Not sure why, but that’s just how it goes pretty much every session now. Once in a very blue moon, I’ll have a good match that is nice and close, but typically, it’s just all but over in about 2 minutes and I spend half the match getting obliterated.

Team comp? Communciation? Queue times/Failsafes? I know I had a block of time where I went from amazing close games to utterly atrocious knockouts. Thats what the Bad Matchups thread is for.

I noticed over the weekend that there was some really really atrocious matches because of the silly daily.

Lopez.7369:

Nah, he rallied off his teammate.

This isn’t the first time it’s happened, either. Although this is the first time it’s happened to me in a 1v2 situation.

Noscoc explained this once. I forget what the actual explanation of it is, but it I believe it has something to do with you transferring on necro.

Quality of competition goes down on the weekends?

Curious if this is just a false perception of mine or something others notice.

Grouch and Hugh seem to play regularly.

People don’t afk their homes much.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

leman.7682:

4. Do you expect a medal?

Nah, the point is that turret engis shouldn’t be an issue for anyone who can work around it. I don’t consider myself anywhere near the top level of PvP players.

The other point is that the leaderboards need a serious change.

Few key things were outnumbering them, LoS’ing them or simply rotating out of a point that had turrets up.

Your point is really pointless considering whether or not you can handle a turret engie has nothing to do with a random pug on your team stubbornly bumrushing the turret engie by his lonesome and feeding it.

If you guys actually want things to be balanced it should start with traits over gear and sigils.

No it doesn’t. Killshot, volley, and some pistol thief skills track through stealth.

It shouldn’t be removed either.

Basically nerf everything that you cannot fight?

Elitist.8701:

SobeSoul.6910:

Dzrkin Blenket.3014:

Hi guys,
it goes like this…most of my pvp games i am in top player list or first in my team.And i lose most of my games…to give you an example games played 80 / 30 wins.
My question is wether that is normal?or i should start searching for a group that i can play pvp with,since i am always going for solo queue?
I find it dificult to control myself not to break my keyboard every time and i am not even a rage person…still it started to kitten me of when i am constantly doing my best but still i lose games and i need more time to get my bonuses and pvp experience…i am pow. ranger with rubicon set and i own the motherkitteners…so what could be my problem?is it me…or the kitten teammates?

Your score doesn’t matter. Put that out of your head. You are a power ranger. You cannot carry in games. You cannot fight on point much.

It’s you. Not hating on you or ranger. It’s just you have to realize some classes cannot carry and solo queuers need to be carried.

Lol this couldn’t be farther from the truth. ANY class can carry a team, you dont have to stand on point to win a teamfight lol. You also dont need to stand on point to make good decisions and rotations. Dont know why anyone would get the idea that some classes cant carry. Its all about player skill, not class.

You are simply wrong.

It’s solo queue. No matter what your rotation and player skills are like you are relying on others to stand on point with dps orientated classes. In addition if you’re team is nothing but dps classes thanks to dailies your chances are reduced if the other team is tankier.

It doesn’t even have two of it’s trait lines yet. Who knows what it will actually be like?

If you rely on AI you probably don’t know anything about strengths and weaknesses lol

Dzrkin Blenket.3014:

Hi guys,
it goes like this…most of my pvp games i am in top player list or first in my team.And i lose most of my games…to give you an example games played 80 / 30 wins.
My question is wether that is normal?or i should start searching for a group that i can play pvp with,since i am always going for solo queue?
I find it dificult to control myself not to break my keyboard every time and i am not even a rage person…still it started to kitten me of when i am constantly doing my best but still i lose games and i need more time to get my bonuses and pvp experience…i am pow. ranger with rubicon set and i own the motherkitteners…so what could be my problem?is it me…or the kitten teammates?

Your score doesn’t matter. Put that out of your head. You are a power ranger. You cannot carry in games. You cannot fight on point much.

It’s you. Not hating on you or ranger. It’s just you have to realize some classes cannot carry and solo queuers need to be carried.

NeXeD.3042:

SobeSoul.6910:

Shaogin.2679:

SobeSoul.6910:

Even when I explain it’s always followed by, “I win so many games this way…”

My MMR is fine. I have frands with very high MMR who still get matched up with these same players. You can factor in decay, but I didn’t decay climb.

Technically you and your friends have no way at all of knowing what your mmr is. So you can’t really make the claim that your or your friend’s mmr is high or fine or anything.

Yes I can. I floated between top 1000 and 92% under the old leaderboard that was strictly MMR based.

When I played alot in old leaderboards I was in top 100, still wouldn’t say I was good and I doubt my mmr was really that good anyway….. I do wish we could check it though…. I’ve been seeing alot more high level players lately.

I multiclassed a lot. If I stuck to hambow only I would’ve climbed to top 100 most likely.

Unless you were decay climbing your MMR would have been fairly high.

Shaogin.2679:

SobeSoul.6910:

Even when I explain it’s always followed by, “I win so many games this way…”

My MMR is fine. I have frands with very high MMR who still get matched up with these same players. You can factor in decay, but I didn’t decay climb.

Technically you and your friends have no way at all of knowing what your mmr is. So you can’t really make the claim that your or your friend’s mmr is high or fine or anything.

Yes I can. I floated between top 1000 and 92% under the old leaderboard that was strictly MMR based.

Even when I explain it’s always followed by, “I win so many games this way…”

My MMR is fine. I have frands with very high MMR who still get matched up with these same players.

…some newbie rush lord in Foefire at the very start of the game?

Why do newbies think this is a winning play?

Condi engie > cele engie for condis

You don’t really give up anything besides cc with it.

Burn guardian isn’t one of the worst builds in the game. Don’t know what you are puffing on chief.

I got rekt on my necro by one because there’s no way to keep the burning off lol.

I think it’s an esport in its infancy. Whether it emerges or fails to become a full fledged #esport really depends on whether or not if there’s a massive influx of players via the expansion coming into the spvp scene and making it truly competitive.

The gameplay itself has its own “big plays” as you call it already. Look at some of the portaling top tier mesmers do in the ESLs or how team fights can turn around quickly.

Harvest…

How do you think you are carrying noobs with a 51% winrate? Honest question. I have closer to 60% and I don’t think I’m carrying noobs.

You have credentials for dumping the most time into game? lol

NeXeD.3042:

It’s because Guardians and eles don’t have access to quite as many condis in short time spans. To make up for the lack of condi spam guard and ele get high burning uptime.

Guardians specifically can keep burning up nearly 100% of the time. I ran into a burn guard last night who was running doom and geo sigils, probably balth runes, against my necro. I couldn’t keep the burns off me even with condi transfers and consume conditions. It was kind of nutty.

We are talking about burn durations and not cover conditions. IP isn’t hideous considering without p/p you have a ~6s gap of burn application.

Shanks.2907:

SobeSoul.6910:

xDudisx.5914:

insanemaniac.2456:

ip used to be an adept. back then, every build splashed explosives for it. even at “only” 2 seconds its a ridiculous dps increase for an adept slot.

Well considering that all grenade engis put max points in that traitline and get a 4s burning it been adept or not wouldn’t be a problem.The problem is the duration. They are already maxing that traitline anyway.

Considering guardians and eles have higher burning uptimes I fail to see how a 4s burning on 10s CD being the only sources of burning is OP in those builds besides p/p condi engie’s 4 on pistol. I understand why passive play skills like IP get hated on, but that’s a separate issue.

You seriously just compared guardian’s ONLY damaging condition to the four that engineer has? Even ele has only burning and bleeding. What makes it an issue is when bleeding, poison, burning and confusion get loaded up on top of other cover conditions like vuln and chill.

Not that I’m complaining on this issue or trying to support this nerf. I’m just pointing out the flaw in your comparison. I’m more of the position that guardian and elementalist need something to make their condition builds more viable.

You think guardians only have one condition?

What are sigils? Runes?

xDudisx.5914:

insanemaniac.2456:

ip used to be an adept. back then, every build splashed explosives for it. even at “only” 2 seconds its a ridiculous dps increase for an adept slot.

Well considering that all grenade engis put max points in that traitline and get a 4s burning it been adept or not wouldn’t be a problem.The problem is the duration. They are already maxing that traitline anyway.

Considering guardians and eles have higher burning uptimes I fail to see how a 4s burning on 10s CD being the only sources of burning is OP in those builds besides p/p condi engie’s 4 on pistol. I understand why passive play skills like IP get hated on, but that’s a separate issue.

When I’m playing other classes besides my engies I don’t really have a problem with ACP. It’s visible where it is dropped and you have a little time to respond.

Your IP fix is a bit much.

Nocturnus.6872:

SobeSoul.6910:

Nocturnus.6872:

I think its funny most of you see this as being not a problem.
why did anet put the report button there, should we instead report the abusive language tab as a bug ?? one thing is for sure, there is something here that needs a fixing…

There’s a difference between verbal abuse and someone saying “get f’d” depending on the situation.

that one you have to teach me then…..
saying get F’ed is in my book no matter what verbal abuse……
there is no situation where that sentence is called for.

I’ll tell frands “get rekt” if I see them in matches if I kill them sometimes.

There’s general trash talk in spvp that isn’t serious, and there’s also players calling people every name in the book.

I think there’s some over sensitivity on people complaining in this thread.

Nocturnus.6872:

I think its funny most of you see this as being not a problem.
why did anet put the report button there, should we instead report the abusive language tab as a bug ?? one thing is for sure, there is something here that needs a fixing…

There’s a difference between verbal abuse and someone saying “get f’d” depending on the situation.

Lopez.7369:

SobeSoul.6910:

Yeah, right. You weren’t brilliant enough to realize sigils don’t proc leeching the same way.

I’m not really sure how you came to that conclusion. There’s no need to get aggressive or insulting, though.

Anyway, hopefully this gets a fix in the next patch. My guess is it’s somehow related to the same thing that makes it break in PvE.

Dude you are the one who became insulting calling me a liar.

Lopez.7369:

I doubt it. Every other player I’ve talked to said it doesn’t work. I don’t think you’re testing it in PvP matches.

Yeah, right. You weren’t brilliant enough to realize sigils don’t proc leeching the same way.

That sounds like you are being too sensitive. If someone tells you “get f’d” or “get rekt” it is usually not srs bsns.

I just did. It proc’d.

Seems to me like you don’t understand buggy =/= completely not working.