Guild Wars 2

Amir.1570:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

I think that the Shout Warrior is very comparable to the D/D Ele in playstyle. They run for maximum sustain, and both pack in the neighbourhood of 30 condition removals per minute.

Cross profession comparisons are for sure, apples and oranges. Despite both Cele builds having a similar trait spread & identical roles, there are many things that both professions do better.

IE:

• 1v1 Survivability – Edge: Evidence inconclusive, No Cele Ele or Cele War has died yet.
• 1vX Survivability – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Damage Output – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Allied Support – Edge: Cele War.
• Revive Utility – Edge: Cele War.

Cele War does some things better than the Cele Ele, and vice versa. I think the damage gap is not as big as it’s sometimes perceived, either… Cele War takes advantages of Sigils better, proccing twice as many sigils as Ele can, bringing Geomancy and Energy/Leeching to the table in addition to Battle/Doom. Wars having just as consistent burning, on point, and does comparable power damage to the Ele. Arcing arrow and Final Thrust do some fat damage with 25 might stacks.

The balance could shift either way. If Ele & Engi gets 6 nerfs each I think War will be too good. The goal is for everyone to be nerfed enough to not be an easy pick over Ranger/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior is still a far superior pick in the point-holder role that Ranger/Guardian also compete for, sorry, but if the celestial Ele/Engi is going down, Shout Warrior is going down with it.

Kinda. Warrior, at least shoutbow right now, can get chain CC’d and can’t simply walk away from focus fire. This is why Ele can be more braindead than Warrior, cause the Warrior meta build right now is super risky and borderline a class that always was risky except for when hambow was good. Ele can always stomp much better because their stun breaks have always been stupidly strong.

Shoutbow right now is just an inferior version of ele really. It’s much harder to make plays as shout bows because their stun breaks aren’t as good as ele.

Ele can literally sustain their team mates while having way too much stability and stun breaks, warrior on the other hand does not have access to this kind of brokenness.

Wat?

Ele has 7.75s of stab every 75s which happens to be its stunbreak. Blink and Cleansing Fire aren’t stunbreaks. The other stunbreaks are Signet of Air and Arcane shield but aren’t really worth using on the D/D build much.

Warrior does have access to more brokenness than that.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sF-t;1NKkN0_4cLVQ0;9;6JTJ;418-18B37-TwG6R;1CoF2CoF25H

Two Stun Breaks. Same stab as ele on shorter CD. Immob, Cripple, and Chill are pretty much cleared instantly. Conversion of condis to boons. Vigor. Roughly same armor as eles and engies but with Zerk amulet, but you have 6k more HP than ele, and 2k more than engie.

I’m not lying when I say shoutbow isn’t the best build. It has damage on it that is kiteable. Whereas if you take out LB for Hammer you can be a bruiser with the best of them. You still retain a pretty decent amount of condi clear. You also have access to better CC.

Shoutbow happens to be a bad build for warrior that shouldn’t be balanced around.

cymerdown.4103:

SobeSoul.6910:

cymerdown.4103:

Booms.2594:

That nerf on ele will never happen since renerfing that trait will completely destroy it

Nah I doubt it, they just definitely have a little too much condi clear at the moment. I’d also be fine with them having to lose that trait and take Generosity instead of Doom or something.

Warriors can have more.

So why aren’t people proposing nerfs on their condi clear?

Removing condi clear is the stupidest possible nerf you could propose. Condi meta would be 100x worse than Cele meta.

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

We are hardly in a condi meta. Start stripping condi cleanses from classes and you will see what a condi meta is. Most of the obnoxious condi builds aren’t playable in spvp and it is good that way.

cymerdown.4103:

Booms.2594:

That nerf on ele will never happen since renerfing that trait will completely destroy it

Nah I doubt it, they just definitely have a little too much condi clear at the moment. I’d also be fine with them having to lose that trait and take Generosity instead of Doom or something.

Warriors can have more.

So why aren’t people proposing nerfs on their condi clear?

Removing condi clear is the stupidest possible nerf you could propose. Condi meta would be 100x worse than Cele meta.

Would prefer them make automated tournaments in game.

Uh. Lol. You are seeking to neuter engineer. Why?

A lot of the players who whine about cele will die in any meta lol

And if you are using churning earth against your opponents you are pretty much saying “you are bad”.

Bitty.1409:

SobeSoul.6910:

You may want to add to it that if you do find yourself in a stale mated situation pushing far something about disengaging. Think it is one of the more common errors when someone stalemates and your team could use you elsewhere.

I don’t want to add that because in Solo Q a stalemated fight is better than you pushing far and leaving your teammates to all get wiped. You gotta keep in mind that your teammates won’t react appropriately to you doing that. Mabye if you are like a thief or something and want to go for a quick decap but even then.

Don’t think you understand.

If you are the ones pushing far and there’s 2 of you or maybe you are alone against some sorta bunker class sitting on far and having a prolonged fight while your team on other parts of the map either is getting wiped or has wiped once. Sometimes it is the correct play to break off far point to go help out elsewhere. Even if that means maybe leaving the other person in a 1v2.

Bitty.1409:

SobeSoul.6910:

Think one of the early game things I don’t see done enough is escorting home or watching for cross overs amongst solo queuers.

I had a game snowball in Forest today because I did this and pretty much neutralized two of their players with the guy who capped home.

I like this, I will add it when I get off work.

You may want to add to it that if you do find yourself in a stale mated situation pushing far something about disengaging. Think it is one of the more common errors when someone stalemates and your team could use you elsewhere.

Think one of the early game things I don’t see done enough is escorting home or watching for cross overs amongst solo queuers.

I had a game snowball in Forest today because I did this and pretty much neutralized two of their players with the guy who capped home.

No way of practicing?

There are still custom arenas where teams can practice. So that isn’t really a valid criticism. You can always organize scrimmages with other teams. The NA teams were doing that in the old system.

That being said I am not a fan of running into premades as a long time lone wolf.

Neither of your statements are particularly true. If the ele is consistently losing to mesmers it’s a skill issue.

Can’t name and shame on the forums. It’s funny who it is considering he got lambasted for being a baddie on the forums.

If you can’t win against mesmer as an ele then you need to learn match ups and skill usage better.

I’m aware of your suggestion and turret engies would get a free pass in skyhammer. Evading the hammer isn’t hard. Neither is just standing away from the point your turrets are on. You just didn’t think out this idea well enough.

MailMail.6534:

+1 for the OP.

<3 <3 <3

Let the haters hate, and we’ll keep playing. I get the same hate whenever I play condition Mesmer which is actually subpar for pvp. Ironically, most players call it PU even though I play other condition builds. l2p

I actually giggle when people play condition mesmer on my ele since it really is not effective at all against the amount of condi removal. On my engie the worst that a condition mesmer can do is usually make me withdrawal from the point to somewhere else unless the condition mesmer +1’s a fight.

One thing about people playing celestial builds is people played bunker builds when it was the meta. The current meta will always be a deciding factor in who wants who on a team. Just the way it is until there’s enough viable builds to bring to the table.

Nerfing celestial will only bring about a different meta where players will same builds unless Anet looks into tuning up traits on every class where there’s more than one “optimal” build.

The Ranger pet is just bad and always has been.

And I would never want turret engies to be able to sit on points in skyhammer getting free passes for their silly turrets.

Telling others to L2P when you play an afk build is rich OP lol

You can beat d/d ele if you slip them a mickey.

I sort of agree with OP. However, I’m not even sure r20 would prevent the type of silliness that goes on in games. I had four games in a row with either double ranger or double mesmer, etc… with only one other person on my teams in those games who had any sorta sustain. Think if there was some autobalancing for comps some of the crappiness of Ranked queue wouldn’t be so bad.

sinject.4607:

i get stuck with pugs way below my level of play all the time, sometimes to the point where it feels like they just got the game.

best way to handle it is just to go afk the rest of the game after you score at least once so that the game goes faster, meaning bad pugs end up wasting less of your time. fun way to punish bad players for queuing.

I’ve seen you around. You BM and get irritated too much. You also play a thief that doesn’t really carry teams or support teams in fights.

OP look at the records.

The percentages aren’t MMR. The percentages are based on points on ladder. All I see in your screenshot is people who haven’t been active in rank. So there’s no way of telling what their MMR is to see if it was a normal match.

MailMail.6534:

Not to be shady, but what exactly is the point of your post? Are you suggesting that these elements be taken out of pvp?

Bosses are the least concern of making the game more “noob friendly”…

Anet should rethink these mechanics.

They’re fine for experienced players. However, with a small pvp community and no possible way of not being teamed with inexperienced players they become more of a troll mechanic that waste peoples’ time on teams with people who don’t understand why rushing the Lord in Foefire early in the game is really really bad.

You don’t necessarily have to remove them. Perhaps making the Foefire boss invulnerable until 350 points would be ideal to prevent this stuff.

I would rather have to worry about getting better mechanically on the class I am playing than having to worry someone with just throw the game from not understanding why their decision is so bad.

Serious question since Anet has tried to implement noob friendly stuff in pve, why do bosses exist in pvp?

They truly are noob traps. Seen more thrown games because pre 350 lord rushes in Foefire and people who either die to Svanir or Chieftain or get them stolen constantly.

I’d like to touch on builds just a tiny bit since someone mentioned it. Please for your sake do not play minion mancer or turret engies or other AI based builds. That will only do you harm in the long run.

Go for it.

I honestly went from roaming in wvw to the old ranked solo queue straight away with only a little adjusting to conquest mode needed. I actually watched quite a few streams so I knew the maps. As long as you know map mechanics than unranked is good.

Archaon.9524:

ladder based on win\loss ratio or gtfo

That’s a terrible idea. It would only work if solo queue and team queue were split again.

MailMail.6534:

Mathematically, zerker deals more dmg over time with an added bonus of health. I think thief is the only profession that would probably have a case to use it in some niche cases.

A buff is probably needed.

Zerker doesn’t mathematically deal more damage over time on some builds. For instance I know that power rangers using Assassin’s over Zerk with Rune of the Ranger is more DPS than a combo of Zerk amulets with other Runes.

I tested various stuff out one night when a friend and I were discussing power rangers.

Amir.1570:

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

The thing with assassin amulet is that you trade the health from berserker for the additional dmg. The meta that we currently have with the bunker, bruiser, cough* crapp cough* sustain over time hybrid dmg just is the total counter to this amulet.
Wait until we have a full zerker dps meta, maybe it will play out then.
But as we know the patch scedual you can wait half a year or longer for this to happen

You trade health but Berserker Still does more damage. If you test it out you’ll understand what I’m saying.

This is wrong.

Assassin’s has more damage on it on some builds. Test it out on the HotM dummies with different classes and builds.

Silentshoes.1805:

SobeSoul.6910:

You are terribly wrong.

0.98 is how many pts per win I am at. Which is substantially higher than some people in the screenshot, and I have a better winrate. Difference between those people and me is I don’t grind the board 24/7.

What is wrong?

How strong a win is a better indicator, hence the “Points Per Win” from the point award grid based on how tough a match it was. And I chose the “top 25” since they had the most games. That is a more “consistent” “Pts per Win” because it happened over a long run of matches.

The simple “win rate” is not a good indicator, because you can be given a match you are expected to lose.

Odds of victory which doles out point is a flawed. Take the highest skilled player vs. the lowest skilled players based on mmr. We will need to use ceteris paribus here. We cannot take into account unknown factors like who the highly skilled players are teaming with. I do see a lot of the ESL and tournament contenders queueing with others.

Highest skilled players probably can only expect a pts per win ratio of 1 unless they whole team blows MMR wise, because naturally their mmr is higher so the predictor will only award them one point for a game they play. Where as lower skilled players can get more pts per win if they happen to do real well for whatever reason.

tl;dr

The best players would still be screwed

You are terribly wrong.

0.98 is how many pts per win I am at. Which is substantially higher than some people in the screenshot, and I have a better winrate. Difference between those people and me is I don’t grind the board 24/7.

runeblade.7514:

sinject.4607:

ranger: your standard condition ranger (sb + a/d) doesn’t have enough condition variety to really be effective in my opinion, at least to warrant having one over a condition engineer or necro.

What game are you playing where sb + a/d condi ranger is a bad build?

It’s a bad build.

Think about in relation to other classes why it’s bad.

What people need to learn above going far is how to rotate off of far when the rest of team isn’t winning mid or home instead of camping one point.

I don’t like seeing Rangers on my team.

Followed by mesmers and thieves.

Reasoning:

1) Rangers do not provide anything to the team that other classes do not do better
2) Mesmers while having fantastic bursts tend have more needs than random teams can provide. Also a lot of mesmers play weird builds that do not do much in pvp. Condi Pu is kinda shrug worthy.
3) Thieves aren’t bad on a team. It’s just most thieves don’t live up to the role they provide in random queues.

It doesn’t need a nerf. It needs to be taken out of game or Anet needs to state it OK and put it under a tool tip.

That would be nice. The problem is prize pools come from NCSoft or Anet’s revenues. They should have done this kind of stuff at the beginning of the game when their revenues were better.

What you need to understand is that those games are like 100x bigger if not more than GW2 spvp.

Yeah. The OP is entirely wrong.

There are people who push far who yield negative results. However, there are plenty of able who can hold far, or thieves and mesmers who can handle far, and then go back into mid.

Nah. It’s not about dueling skills. They help of course. The problem with blowouts is they mainly are coming in the form of premades.

It’s hard to play “correctly” when you’re with four others who aren’t coordinating on a voice chat program.

I don’t find pvp stale at all. Probably needs more maps and game modes. Would like 1v1 and 2v2 type arenas and a few other things, but I enjoy it still. It’s the only thing I really do in this game.

Amir.1570:

Oh right, because the defense portion of celestial makes it forgiving. Specially when you can make use of ALL the defense stats. The gear difference within celestial is just insufferable, there really is no point in defending it.

Why do you think Celestial amulet was put in the game? For people to use it and not benefit on that stats it has? lol

It’s one thing to argue that maybe the stats are to high right now on the amulet, it’s another thing to QQ about defense stats just because.

Aeroxe.8140:

how do people already have like 250 games played since the patch….

Obama and socialist countries pay them to play! Get gud.

There seems to some usage of macros going on in spvp lately. It isn’t that hard to spot. Not going to name names. Curious as to if Anet actually checks into this issue or not.

Stalking me thread to thread now? lol

And, no, I am not a shrink, but I have taken sociology courses to understand behavior like this is not a one time deal.

Sebastian.4610:

insanemaniac.2456:

Sebastian.4610:

insanemaniac.2456:

if you find yourself raging, you are a problem

Thats not true at all. The problem stems from “why” you are raging, not the fact that you are raging.

it is true, when you rage you play worse
keep your head clear and youll play better

pondering why youre gittin mad will definitely help you keep your cool though

the reasons i get angry are in anets control not mine. previously in the old solo queue i was frustrated MUCH less.

The reasons you get angry is not because Anet. I am going to go ahead and just say that the ragers in GW2 are the same people who rage in LoL or CoD or whatever game they play.

Being disgruntled and salty is OK. Calling people bads in chat when you’re most likely the baddie on the team is not OK.

Yep.

Without some weighting system it is just a grindfest.

More skilled players… Did not adapt…

Read what you wrote. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out what I was responding to.

No it wasn’t.