Guild Wars 2

Are you complaining about passive procs as an engineer? C’mon man, I play engineer and know we don’t get to make that criticism when we have IP. When you make those kind of statements it looks like you are just mad you cannot faceroll another class without thinking about what you are doing instead of actually caring about a real sense of balance.

I’m fine with necros having spinal shivers and fire and air procs. If they’re not fine with my IP then it’s hypocritical.

As far as downstate necro goes, I really don’t take any issue with it. It makes me play a bit more defensively when I take one down, but nothing game breaking.

lordkrall.7241:

SobeSoul.6910:

Gems or skins imo.

Maybe 10 gems per win, and 5 per loss. Only issue I see with that is I would have to save them up to convert. But I honestly don’t care about the current rewards.

Having such a reliable in-game way to get gems is a very bad idea. Especially if it is locked to a single game mode.

It was already like this in spvp apparently at the beginning of the game.

And PVErs and WvWers can just use a few clicks of the button on AH to get gems with gold anyhow.

Phantaram.4816:

Me and lots of pvp players I know really are only ever in the heart of the mists. In every single reward track there are multiple materials we get that we can’t just deposit and we have to go into the pve world, of which we are entirely unfamiliar with, to convert these materials into some kind of currency we understand. I personally just destroy them all.

It’d be great to get some kind of reward track that contains none of these materials.

Short list of materials I understand what to do with and mean something:
1. Crafting materials – deposit all – sell on BLTC to turn into gold
2. Gold – I use this to buy skins cause skins are everything in spvp
3. ? – Some other material I can turn into gold.

I dunno, anet could even get creative. I wouldn’t have a clue where to start but I’m sure most pvp players would be okay with a reward track that contained only materials that we could easily convert to gold.

Atm I have characters full of chests and it’s a nightmare, which is sort of a seperate topic, but a reward track with chests I understand would make me more inclined to open these suckers.

Gems or skins imo.

Maybe 10 gems per win, and 5 per loss. Only issue I see with that is I would have to save them up to convert. But I honestly don’t care about the current rewards.

glock.6590:

^^ some people already tried to bring 3 turret engis in a tournament and they failed.

Depends on how you look at failure. That turret team beat some more orthodox teams in the WTS qualifier.

necrofail.7439:

SobeSoul.6910:

Roe.3679:

I agree with most of the sentiment about AI but I don’t get the rage at power rangers or power necros. They are generally weak classes.

As another engineer, I’m guessing he doesn’t like power necros and rangers because they can shut down engineers before you see them. And the fact neither of those classes take as much coordination of skills as some other classes.

Personally, I don’t like either because they get trained down to fast and offer not much in the form of team utility.

agreed pressing 4 on an engi every 15 seconds requires so much more timing.

It does. I’m guessing you haven’t played engineer enough to understand the nuances of gameplay and just assume it is face roll.

Fact of the matter is most players don’t bother to pay attention to what is in the hands of an engie. Case and example, good players seeing me with tool kit equip reduce the amount of times I land prybar. Or when rifle is equipped if I’m standing within range and see stab fall off the player it is a good sign that I’m dropping my CC combo on a man. If people don’t understand player tendencies and mistake them for faceroll mechanics, then that’s their problem, not a class problem.

ps. I wasn’t complaining about necro or power rangers +1ing a fight. I really have no issue with their mechanics other than rangers’ range on LB being not in line with advertised tooltip.

Nathaniel.4905:

Sagat.3285:

Royal.2693:

Celestial just brings too much. Amulet should be completely removed from the PvP. It would freshen up the competitive scene too.

Ele is naturally celestial that would be an insult. Again you are not here to roam, have duels and measure skills. It’s conquest you assault,cap and decap that’s why bruiser/bunker are important and usually come in 3’s while the other 2 are mobility or condi/power burst, if you want to be competitive you play to win you play the mode it’s the only ranked mode so of course players will choose what works best there and the devs balanced around it.

No it’s one Ele build, D/D. TBH D/D ele is very weak when compared to what they can do with a staff in terms of team support. But everyone wants to fly around the map looking cool like they are kittening Avatar which is fine, but D/D cele ele is a very selfish build.

D/D ele is not a selfish build when played properly. Can help team mates with condi removal, give them heals, protection, and fury. Most D/D eles beginning and not taking the energy to learn the build can play it very selfishly.

lighter.2708:

TBH the hammer medi guard is already part support.

Yeah to a point. But it still isn’t on par with the celestial builds.

Cynz.9437:

ever heard of trade off?

because celestials don’t really have it atm

There already is a trade off for using celestial amulet. You are trading in your ability to super bunker it up or go full #yolo with builds for something that offers a bit of both. SD engie with mines can instashrek a lot of things. But it isn’t a healthy build to play. I don’t play engie because it is OP btw, I play it because I find the style more fun than warrior (what I started out as).

I also do not believe a team game mode should be balanced about 1v1 match ups. When I’m playing a burst class, I’m perfectly fine with having match ups that aren’t coin flips determined by player skill. That’s how all MMOs I have ever played works (been playing mmos for over a decade). I believe currently 3/8 classes bridging the gap of support and damage is fine, but would be even better if Anet could bring guardians into the fold and have it 4/8.

I believe most mesmers, thieves, rangers, and necros are happy with the damage they do, and don’t think about running balanced builds. Admittedly those classes do not have much options available to them to do that in a conquest game mode.

So I read another thread that wants Celestial removed.

Currently there are three classes who are celestial users in the meta.

If you look at the other classes they primarily run burst builds. Mediguard, power ranger, power necro, shatter mesmer, and thief. You can aslo add in fresh air ele. I’m leaving out condition builds as they’re more niche roles and primarily adequate in 1v1s when played well.

All of the burst builds are polarized. The objective on these builds is to kill people before they can kill you. Pretty straighforward.

Whereas when you are playing shoutbow, cele ele, and rifle engie you have two objectives.

1) Fight for points on point.
2) Help out your mates when they’re in trouble in ways burst builds cannot.

A very good cele dd ele saves his or her heals for their team when they’re engaged in team fights. Good engineers will peel and heal. Same with shoutbows. Burst builds are more selfish in nature. Thieves and mesmers have a little bit more value over the other burst classes, as they can take care of themselves a little bit better by disengaging when things are hot and heavy, and go for decaps or reset.

If you remove celestial amulet, people would revert back to bunker guardian and hambow. Whether you like bunker guardian or celestial ele is just a preference and has nothing to do with actual balance. But the added danger is that turret engineers would become an even bigger nuisance they are currently.

As far as actual balance goes…

There’s just one question. What do you prefer? 1) RNG factors of burst builds or 2) Some passives like IP and sustain?

I find neither of these to be preferable over the other. I main rifle engie but also play almost every build aside from shoutbow and power ranger when I just want to have fun and not tryhard. So I do understand both sides of the argument.

My only opinion about the current meta is that there’s one class that needs to be worked on to bring them in line with shoutbow, celestial ele and engie. That would be guardian. Currently they are underperformers in team support builds, and that shouldn’t really be the case. Anet should look at bringing Guardians on par with the three celestial users.

You complain about the meta, but at the end of the day if you nerf one thing, other things pop up. And after three months or so you will just complain about that too. I personally think the current meta is better than bunker meta. I didn’t play much in the zerk meta in spvp to know what that was all about. It could be fun, but the population of thieves would explode.

tl;dr

Real balance will never come because what most people think of “balance” is just player preferences.

April 15th patch.

Though now people can get the stupid mini llama people just running ez mode builds.

MadVisions.4529:

play ‘ranked’ —> problem solved

This is the correct answer.

There’s virtually no difference between the two except three maps people don’t like.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Iris Ng.9845:

Terrorsquad.2349:

DeWolfe.2174:

jportell.2197:

I think we’re up to 5 turret complaint threads a day.

There’s only a handful of posters that are rabidly against this build.

So, if players are playing the build and having fun, then the Dev’s must have designed it pretty well. It can’t even be as “OP” as the complaints are since it’s not a Meta Build.

1. Wrong, most of the community is against this build, even top players. (they even stream to show how stupidly OP it is. One top player even used it in NA 2v2 cup, to show how broken it is. Not gonna call names )

2. Wrong, doesn’t mean its fun to play, the devs did a good job. Playing something OP is mostly fun because you get rewarded for it in this game. Rewards equals fun (Leaderboard).

3. It’s not meta in ESL because top players don’t want to be called noobs for playing something cheesy as that. (Cele meta already showing this) I think it you get 5 top players together, let them play 5 turret engi or 4 turret engi and a thief/ele/warr doesn’t matter, they can basically win any tournament. But they don’t. It’s lame.

1. HAHAHAHA … I watched that fight. Said person was farmed so hard so he switched to turret engi. Not sure if he was really salty or genuinely wanted to show how broken turret engi is.

3. Every tourneys I know ban stacking of turret engis. I agree it’s lame and exactly opposite of what GW2 is proud of: active combat.

Exactly, I think the fact ESL and other e-sports facilities banning Turret Engis is more than enough proof.

Not trying to defend turret engineers. But I am pretty sure ESL tournies haven’t banned them. Afaik only ACG tournaments have restrictions on turret engineers. Which is only one is allowed per team.

Roe.3679:

I agree with most of the sentiment about AI but I don’t get the rage at power rangers or power necros. They are generally weak classes.

As another engineer, I’m guessing he doesn’t like power necros and rangers because they can shut down engineers before you see them. And the fact neither of those classes take as much coordination of skills as some other classes.

Personally, I don’t like either because they get trained down to fast and offer not much in the form of team utility.

I would define skill in conquest mode something like 65% knowing how to rotate and protect your team’s assets and 35% mechanical skills of your class.

They didn’t reset MMR afaik. They need to allow an option for a player to reset their MMR every 500 games or something.

I don’t play turrets. Try again.

I have an even better suggestion. It’s called Ell Two Pee.

You do realize Absurd and Abjured’s roster had interchangeable parts?

Your lists, history and rationale has some major flaws.

OPC didn’t create the celestial meta. It was Hiba Zoose and three others dogging out APeX in a show match that set the stages for it.

Absurd didn’t win any major tournaments either. Somehow they are on there.

GF did win quite a few weeklies in the run up to ToL. Not as dominant as Abjured. But on that level.

Highseaz.7581:

I left Good Fights out for two main reasons:
1. Toker, Chaith, and Wakkey, all core members, are on Abjured now
2. GF played basically during a completely dead time of the game ( literally no other teams). While GF seemed good, the only other team at the time, FML, which had a subpar roster, actually beat them a lot. GF also did not win any notable tournaments, and they really fell apart in ToL 1, when they didn’t even make it to the semifinals. While you may argue that a team like The Abjured does not have any competition, I point out The Absurd, and Apex, both confirmed top teams still played vs them and Abjured came out on top.

This isn’t true. GF won just about everything up until ToL. And if you look back that period wasn’t really dead. ToL had way more teams than today.

Lol

You missed Good Fights this time.

There’s tons of players who play spvp. Remember the game is 24/7 and NA servers contain Oceanics and Asian people.

Saturn.6591:

SobeSoul.6910:

62% means that your point total places you in that percentile.

That’s like saying the grass is green because the grass is green, lol. And it’s super obvious that it shows 62% because it places you in 62%… just like you are fifth because you are fifth. Doesn’t explain anything to the OP, and doesn’t explain what percentiles are either. It does not even tell me if my assumption (that I’ve outlined in the first part of my other post here) is right or wrong.

Edit: On a sidenote, I hear players asking what that percentage means quite often. I usually tell them what I assume and that I don’t REALLY know for sure either. ^^

I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t understand statistics. You were linked to percentiles by Evan. The abstract of percentiles isn’t too hard to understand. If you are ranked in the 62%, in context to the LB, means you have more points than 62% of the spvp population.

Graphically you would normally see a bellcurve with the 62% shaded in. It’s a little easier to understand when you get the visuals of it.

If that were the case then some Radioactive members should be included because they managed to dominate quite a few of these players’ teams within recent history. Though I don’t feel like OPN or Crysis or even close to top 10 of either of their classes.

Only need Stats 101 to understand it.

62% means that your point total places you in that percentile.

Quilja is probably the best guardian NA and isn’t on this.
Zoose is probably playing another game. If you’re going to include him you should include Cmc.
I have seen FalseLights 100-0 PawPaw and PawPaw get rekt one too many times to buy him as top 50 player. Same with Dartanian and Karina getting rekt in queues by random pugs. Not trying to single any of them out or be mean to them.
Olrun’s omission is funny.
Hiba beat Chaith in a duel that was streamed last week and is now NA with a potential team.

How do you make these lists?

glock.6590:

In solo Q its a free win. Players will never have enough coordination to beat a build that requires at least 2 people to kill unless you are using a specific counter build.

Requires one good player. Some classes aren’t adept at doing it, but on my engie I have no real troubles with one turret engie. Condi builds and power rangers can deal with them. Thieves can even deal with them, but there’s usually better things the thief can do in the time it takes for a thief to take down a turret engie.

darres shouldn’t really have a problem with game knowledge. I’ve seen him quite a bit. His mmr probably is or was peaking. Also darres, you have been playing power ranger, or you were last time I saw you. It’s easier to go on losing streaks if you’re solo queuing and hafta rely on other people covering points.

Panites.6798:

It seems like you guys have just played this game for 2 weeks. There has always been a very high population of guardians in the game. Always will be. But after maining guard for 2+ years I think the opposite, warrior is the new guardian.
The meta doesn’t need a guardian that can offer a small amount of support while engis, eles and rangers can blast water on the spot. Warriors do more damage, their traits scale better, and have more efficient builds for the team. Sure guardians have mobility due to teleports, which in turn gives them the ability to burst unexpectedly. Warriors offer everything a guard could except virtues. This is my opinion.

Guards, not mediguards though.

My guess is there won’t be any major balance patches but maybe minor ones until the expansion.

BurrTheKing.8571:

BlackTruth.6813:

Once again, the meta is about what is face-roll AND effective. Guardian has been meta for 3 years because they are easy to play and effective. The reason why Guard is easy and effective is because they can spam instant cast defense while using instant cast attacks on top of ridiculous ratios on their damage skills.

Ironically Warrior is a more face-roll healer while Guardian is a more face-roll DPS. DPS Warrior compared to DPS guard is a whole different story. Warrior, with the highest skill cap DPS build (Mace+Shield Axe+Mace) can chain stun people for 5-8 seconds average while dps’ing as a 100-0 combo but that takes way more skill and effort than anything Guardian does to be honest. I would say play Warrior if you want a challenge and learn good habits which you can transfer to other classes.

But just play easy and effective things really, that’s what this game is about to be honest.

Sources on high skill cap Warrior:
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6259903
http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/c/6269321

I don’t like making personal attacks, but players who aren’t Warriors should know that recent Mr. Truth here has managed to get an even worse reputation than I have. His “high skill” builds are generally seen as being inferior to say, any viable teef build or a medi guard. His builds are all damage with low sustain and almost no team support.

I’ve given up debating him on this because he always falls on personal insults or “I never see YOU in tournies” (I work too much and have unreliable internet). I just don’t want his views giving non-warriors the impression that we share this opinion. Warriors are best as support with decent damage if you properly stack might and can land your Final Thrust.

We can’t teleport like teefs, we can’t hit as hard as MediGuard without sacrificing a ton of sustain that the guard doesn’t have to give up. Cele Rifle Engi can bring more useful CC in the form of pushes and pulls in addition to good damage and condi pressure. Cele D/D Ele is very similar to Shoutbow in that it’s based around stacking might for damage while bringing good team support as well.

It is pretty funny that Warriors and Guards have basically swapped roles. We used to be DPS/CC and now we’re the support class and Guard is the DPS.

Zerk hambow certainly can hit as hard as mediguard, and has more sustain than mediguard on top of it. DPS warrior can have as much sustain if not more than mediguards as well. Black’s builds are more unorthodox and Yolo-y. It also seems like you are making a logical error by comparing roles of warriors to thieves.

Out of the bruiser builds, shoutbow is the worst.

1) There is a better point holder.
2) There is a better on point fighter that wouldn’t necessarily classify as a true point holder.
3) Shoutbow + slick shoes or cc = lolgg
4) A lot of damage that can be avoided.

The value of shoutbow is banner + condi removal and heals. But there’s no reason a team needs either of those things if something else can clean up fighters at higher speeds. You still hafta win fights if banner is on CD anyways. Banner is nice but not the end all be all form of team utility.

Have 2k hours on the warrior before I found the playstyle not complex enough for me and moved back to my first class. I do play my warrior in queues on occasions because I find it fun in short doses.

Evan says he disconnected.

Maybe the OP was somehow detected as the one who disconnected falsely?

I didn’t say he was doing anything wrong. There are certain classes that are more prone to losing streaks than other classes in the meta. Also I think there are a couple maps (Temple and Foefire) that lead to blowouts happening. If you manage to grab top buff consistently on Temple and your team has the capability of winning team fights and controlling two points it’s off to the races. Foefire also has it’s snowbally factor to it.

There’s been an influx of guardians on NA. In tournies and in queues.

I haven’t had a problem winning and matches haven’t been blow outs. What class do you play?

There are a few s/f eles who play competitively. The problem with diversity in builds is mostly the playerbase using metabuilds, not that Anet itself is buffing them. Look at DD ele. It was actually nerfed a bit.

If they fix the invis bug faster than the queue bugs then I’m happy.

Ranked isn’t really any difference than Unranked except a leaderboard that is being tested. If you choose Unranked, you know you have the chance to get a map you don’t like. I don’t feel any pressure to warm up before queuing Ranked. The competition isn’t that much better than Unranked.

I apologize to Cruuk for the quoted comment and will erase that post. Even if you get a lot of flack for your style in game I shouldn’t derail your thread.

Go read patch notes from balance patches from last year’s April 15th patch to now. They didn’t balance around meta builds. If they did rangers wouldn’t have been buffed.

Do you think two weeks of an invis bug with a smaller development team trying to identify the source of the coding error is unreasonable? I played AA for a few months, and I’m not sure if they even fixed straight up hacking issues yet let alone bugs in their game and it has been out since August or September. Anet cares about these things whether or not you think they do.

You played Unranked. I rarely play Unranked because I specifically don’t like CY, Skyhammer, or Spiritwatch much. It’s your choice if you play the map or not when you have the option of playing Ranked.

brannigan.9831:

SobeSoul.6910:

Blackjack.5621:

Seems simple to me that someone who loses less should have more points.

Not really.

If you run full premades you shouldn’t be rewarded the same as someone who solo queues point wise.

What lol. This is suppossed to be a competitve game. Take your gaming welfare and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. We don’t all get trophies for participating princess. I am fine with people with a respectable win percetnage that solo 100% doing well on the leaderboard but not people in the 40-45% win range grinding there way into the top 100-200. Regardless we shouldn’t have to play the game like its a job to get high on the leaderboard regardless of what you think about group and solo queued together. Get serious and stop trolling.

Nice usage of the strawman fallacy, but I never said anything about someone with a 40-45% winrate. The only person trolling is you.

And here’s why you are wrong.

Invis bug is recent and not exactly rampant. I have yet to see and invis person myself. Plus Anet tends to fix those things within weeks once they identify the bug.

Your point about them balancing the game only on meta builds is so far from the truth considering patch notes that it isn’t worth going further.

Skyhammer isn’t in Ranked. So what was your point?

Saiyan.1704:

I’ll add another 1v1 build to the list too. Hybrid guard.

Think straight up burnguard is worse than hybrid. You and Quilja have BBQ’d me one too many times.

You should be able to beat cele engies with condi ranger. I main engie. It takes me playing 100% perfectly against good condi rangers to beat them. Their condi pressure is too much for me to fight if I tank any of it.

Blackjack.5621:

Seems simple to me that someone who loses less should have more points.

Not really.

If you run full premades you shouldn’t be rewarded the same as someone who solo queues point wise.

CuRtoKy.8576:

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

CuRtoKy.8576:

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

The amount of whining is so high that I long ago started turning off map chat, team chat, etc. before joining any sPvP match. My god, do people whine.

Good news is that sPvP is a pleasant (if only occasional) diversion when everyone’s been muted

But the community is laughably ungracious compared to what I’ve experienced in WvW and general PvE.

Untrue, everyone is expected to play as a team. I just came from a game where you were on my team who literally did nothing to help out the team even when asked.

Telling someone to be a team player = whining is quite surprising to me. And that really is the problem. Might as well play a solo game instead of an MMO tbh if you mute chat and refused to work with your team.

Lol thanks for stalking me and proving my point?

I block my own teammates from experience: I’ve been insulted, had orders barked at me, and god knows what else. And this is on practice and unranked arenas. I don’t even play ranked.

And now they follow me onto the forums and tell me not to play sPvP.

I hope you’re paying attention to these threads, Anet, because this is why PvE players avoid PvP.

How is this stalking? I saw the thread then I post? It seems like you have an issue with other people. In fact no where in my statement did I say not play sPvP.

I’m saying the most frustrating thing for people is the simple fact that people don’t listen and play as a team. Most reasonable people can tolerate new players but the fact that you disable all forms of communication really proves what is wrong with people queuing up in PvP. The attitude that it is ok or even acceptable to play against your team and to not work together to achieve a win. If you rather not play as a team in a team based game why play anything in GW2 like WvW, PvP, or Dungeons, Tequ, etc. They all require you to play with other people as a team on some level.

This is the real problem and you have proved it. I never knew it was whining to tell your teammates to stay mid point because 2 of them will come soon. I guess the standard is now that if you tell people how to play together then it is whining. Interesting

I have 60%+ winrate and turn my chat off. You are wrong about needing to communicate. If know the game mode well enough most stuff should be intuitive. Sadly, a lot of players haven’t developed the intuition.

Means nothing until it is directly associated with skill levels of individuals.

Raise your MMR is the only thing I can suggest.

Personal cores don’t tell the story. The people who think they do just delude themselves anyways. So it doesn’t matter if they remove it or not.

I been sick and haven’t played. Went 8-4 on new leaderboards with I believe 7 to 8 of those games ending with scores for both teams above 400.

Yeah, the worse state of pvp Kappa

That doesn’t matter. If you’re wining 59% of your matches you are bound to raise your MMR.

59% is not below ground for solo queuing.