Guild Wars 2

Darksteel.8412:

im 1200% convinced that mesmer is only played by bad players that defend any of the proposed nerfs. ps. mesmer is hands down the easiest class to play prepatch and now….always been like this tbh….mesmer isn’t the pro class to master or play….at all, playing berserker warrior is ALOT harder to play properly in crowded fights or 1v1 even…..mesmer imo has always been the tutorial OP faceroll class

legit… This guy knows his stuff. Warrior pro esport class confirmed.

DarkSyze.8627:

Sorel.4870:

style.6173:

online.1278:

Honestly, there isn’t really a esport game that changes its balance that much and that often like gw2 has been doing.

.

Huh? Are you serious or joking. GW2 is one of the slowest to change balance. Prior to the recent update, nothing much had changed in the prior year.

If this is a troll post, well done. If you are serious, I don’t know what to say.

Ikr? I love how people on these forums are writing grandiloquent sentences without thinking about the history of the game.

Anet decided to take a fresh start regarding traits, so of course the balance is worse now than it was. However, some issues were addressed (necro’s mobility, with the 25% movement speed with dagger, mesmer’s weakness against thieves, ranger’s brainlessness with more active traits, guardian’s lack of condi builds, etc). We are just starting to see the beginning of a meta: we know that warriors play rampage, that eles play stone heart and that thieves play d/p. Other than that, everything is still changing: mesmers change their builds every week, and engineers don’t really know where they stand. I’m glad the devs are giving themselves a bit more time before nerving stuff.

Fixing bugs > balancing. Now fix that immob mid-air kitten already!

“Ikr? I love how people on these forums are writing grandiloquent sentences without thinking about the history of the game.”

What is the history of that immob mid-air bug?

“Fixing bugs”

Immob mid-air bug is fix?

“Balancing?”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Mesmer-s-and-Thieves-the-cause-of-PvP-s-Meta/first

I don’t understand. I’m pretty sure the immob bug exists for a very, very long time. I bought the game in 2013 and it was there already. Not much of a history really. I’d like to see it fixed. But I was talking about the fixes they made for the new traits.

Nate.3927:

real skill = naked warrior with a shield

Only for the brave. Are you working on a montage video already?

Mesmer is finally a very good roamer. You can play PU with Mantra of Resolve if you are new to mesmer, it allows you more mistakes. Then you can switch to a funnier option, like Illusions or Inspiration.

Thief is still really strong. Probably the more risk-free option, especially if ou play condi.

D/d ele is still the strongest 1v1 roamer. Unkillable, but it’s harder to chase people with it.

I think burn guards are becoming popular. I see a lot of them, and they are pretty broken.

LB power rangers are still a classic. However, thieves and mesmers tend to wreck them.

Warriors still make good roamers. And that Rampage… kitten .

Engineer was my favorite class for roaming pre-patch (I prefer mesmer now), and it is still fun. Unfortunately, the increase in mesmers is not good news for engis, who were always hard counters by them. Rabid builds work best.

I think necro still lacks mobility. However, with the new traits that give 25% movement speed with a dagger and in DS, I can imagine that you can have fun with a power burst build. Don’t forget to bring your Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm with you.

TheBeesKnees.8391:

Personally, I’m done adapting for stupid decisions that hamper the veterans who actually bothered to learn the game, and reward the new people that within a month will quit because the game’s too boring.

I love how every time there’s a change in the game, those not liking it pretend it favors new players. On the contrary, the current burst is really cruel to new players. You don’t have a “look behind” key bind? Dead. You don’t have the reflex to press your invuln/stun breaker in under a second? Dead. You don’t know what skills deal damage on other professions? Dead. As a veteran myself, I find roaming easy after the patch. Winning 1v3s is easy if two of them are down after the opener.

style.6173:

online.1278:

Honestly, there isn’t really a esport game that changes its balance that much and that often like gw2 has been doing.

.

Huh? Are you serious or joking. GW2 is one of the slowest to change balance. Prior to the recent update, nothing much had changed in the prior year.

If this is a troll post, well done. If you are serious, I don’t know what to say.

Ikr? I love how people on these forums are writing grandiloquent sentences without thinking about the history of the game.

Anet decided to take a fresh start regarding traits, so of course the balance is worse now than it was. However, some issues were addressed (necro’s mobility, with the 25% movement speed with dagger, mesmer’s weakness against thieves, ranger’s brainlessness with more active traits, guardian’s lack of condi builds, etc). We are just starting to see the beginning of a meta: we know that warriors play rampage, that eles play stone heart and that thieves play d/p. Other than that, everything is still changing: mesmers change their builds every week, and engineers don’t really know where they stand. I’m glad the devs are giving themselves a bit more time before nerving stuff.

Fixing bugs > balancing. Now fix that immob mid-air kitten already!

It looks like it will be a lot of fun, and I’m looking forward to it.

That being said, this week will drastically reduce the amount of golem blueprints in circulation in Tyria. Most of them probably come from EotM karma trains, and while this supply will stay identical, the demand will rise like crazy (it has already begun). So maybe that’s Anet’s way to nerf golems: make them increase in price.

I really hope that’s intended, because it feels so much more natural (I don’t have to slot another utility when I finish a duel with just one mantra charge left anymore, I can just press it), and mantra builds are finally viable in pvp! But if it was to stay this way, maybe the CDs need to be reworked a bit, since the heal is pretty much spammable now.

You know, call me an idealist, but why can’t we just do that already? I mean, nobody likes a 4v5, so why not afk if you realize that the other team lacks a member?

Morwath.9817:

You may agree or not, but imho GS is the best Ranger weapon.

Warhorn FTW!

Aomine.5012:

It’s more like other way round. If a Mesmer can’t win a ranger even after so many tools available for them to hardcounter ranger (stealth counts too), then it’s Mesmer who play really really bad to lose such an advantageous fight. It’s like fighting with D/D, it’s not dependent on how good the ranger plays, but rather how bad the D/D plays , or how bad the Mesmer play, that the ranger gets the victory.

Nah dude, rangers has a lot of tools of its own to consistently win against mesmers. Mesmers rely heavily on short bursts, and rangers happen to have a lot of active damage mitigation: Shared Anguish to counter the first stun burst (if the mesmer is playing the daze mantra), LR if they get caught in an immob or a stun, Signet of Stone for these “oh crap” moment, the stealth arrow that can never miss if you aim at a clone (you can cast two in a row by using Quickdraw intelligently), and weapon evades (I like s/d when I play power ranger).

It’s not a hard counter, but at equal skill level, if the ranger is not out of position, he has the upper hand usually. But then again: there are a lot of bad rangers out there. Fortunately, the patch brought a lot of terrible fotm mesmers as well for them to farm.

edit: I forgot to mention that a lot of mesmers are playing Chaos or Inspiration instead of Illusions, and usually run blind on shatter, so they have no more reflects. If they choose to run reflect on dodge however, the ranger is at a disadvantage (not insurmountable though, since the mesmer gets revealed all the time while playing that).

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Most players would like to get rid of it.

It’s a stat on the forum, so it can’t be made up, right?

That being said, I agree with suggestions 2 and 3.

Coloxeus.3480:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z6A5Q-7Reg

This vid lol. What are you trying to show? You getting outplayed?

jportell.2197:

What are you talkling about? ORNG did not have two mesmers…. And even more so the mesmer they did have wasn’t running this OP PU build that everyone and their mom is whining about. Also TCG still had double ele.

You guys seriously crack me up.

PU is such a low tier build. The mantra build is much stronger.

It’s a good trait, and you don’t see every mesmer running it → more build diversity. Maybe the duration could be reduced just a little bit to make it more skillful, but overall I find it rather balanced.

Cool fights! Thank you for posting. Did you try the daze mantra? It would really fit in your build.

Tachenon.5270:

Sorel.4870:

Tachenon.5270:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Anet doesn’t like to disappoint fans and if they announce it and have to push it back they would like to avoid that.

Anet’s reticence on such matters is far more disappointing and damaging than missing a deadline would ever be. Obviously, whoever is calling the shots doesn’t care.

You’re being over-dramatic. Of course missing a deadline would be worse! Anet has no obligation to give a deadline. Well, had: they better give one relatively soon, since some people already purchased HoT.

Nope, not being dramatic at all. Missing a deadline? Sure, it would be worse if they didn’t tell us they were going to miss it until, ya know, after the fact. Before, though — ‘Hey, guys, we tried, but we’re not gonna make it! Here’s our projected new release date. If we miss this one, you can point at us and laugh, and we’ll all have a grand old time.’

Ok. I guess we have different sensibilities on the matter. Sorry you have to wait

zinkz.7045:

Stealth has very little counterplay in this game, in most MMOs damage knocks people out of stealth, the ability to in-combat stealth is very limited, there is normally no way to stealth other players

The two parts of your sentence are only weakly linked. Most MMOs don’t have as much damage mitigation, as much AoE (deadly again stealthy targets). And this out-combat stealth has a lot of drawbacks as well: in pvp, with sufficient awareness, you are not often surprised by a stealth burst: you can prepare for it. So yeah, enough counterplay in conquest at least.

I agree that Stronghold might be a different problem though. In WvW, I use stealth traps, maybe we’ll have something similar? Maybe a champion who pulses reveal waves?

Cynz.9437:

1. this is not wvw forums
2. check pvp forums, there are constant complains about stealth…. do you really think that stealth buffs in any forms would be welcome lol?

You can play stealth builds in pvp as well, and it’s usually a good place to talk about balance, since people usually have a better knowledge of the different professions.

People complain about some aspects of stealth application that are considered not fun or OP. For example, I agree that PU is a bit too strong. But that’s not the issue. The issue is that a mechanic that was implemented three years ago (blast finishers in a smoke field) is still broken. Do you understand? I have no interest in writing yet ANOTHER post about PU or SR. I have a very specific problem I would like to see fixed, that would certainly not impact balance.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Rampage is fine as it is

The balance king has spoken.

I guess Living World is still a thing. That’s fine by me: we know since January exactly what we are getting on the pop/wvw side, and it looks promising enough. If there’s more later, well, that’s even better.

Laraley.7695:

2. Stone Heart. Again, this trait just promotes passive play and to gain the most out of it, you would need to be camping earth. I think this is just badly designed trait.

HOW? On the contrary: pre-patch, eles never used any kind of burst mitigation, they just randomly dodged to blast their fields and get healed. Now, with Stone Heart, you can really tell a good ele from a bad one: the good one will keep its earth attunement ready, and swap immediately when hit with a Basilisk venom/daze mantra. You’re not supposed to camp on earth, but to use Stone Heart to mitigate a burst when you have no stun-breakers left.

Sagat.3285:

Why not tone down stealth it self? Not sure why PU ended this way the focus on defensive boons and little stealth boost was better. I don’t see the stealth from ranger you are talking about, I would say leave the amulets and go to stealth thief SA got toned down as well.

I was thinking of the rangers in WvW running runes of the trapper. And I agree with you: PU now gives a bit too much stealth. Maybe 50% would be more balanced. But that’s not a problem with stealth itself.

Ameno.6813:

Hmm, all my builds require grenades. I wish they woulda have just taken out the penetration component of it and left everything else as is rather than disabling it altogether.

It’s probably what they will do. But you’ll have to wait until Tuesday. I suggest you play a Static Discharge build till then, or a condi bomb build, or a HGH build.

Tachenon.5270:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Anet doesn’t like to disappoint fans and if they announce it and have to push it back they would like to avoid that.

Anet’s reticence on such matters is far more disappointing and damaging than missing a deadline would ever be. Obviously, whoever is calling the shots doesn’t care.

You’re being over-dramatic. Of course missing a deadline would be worse! Anet has no obligation to give a deadline. Well, had: they better give one relatively soon, since some people already purchased HoT.

I find it odd to offer pre-purchases before announcing a release date, that’s why I didn’t pre-purchase. However, if we can assume that Anet doesn’t want its most motivated players (those who already bought HoT) to wait too long for it, it’s safe to say that HoT will come out in 2015.

I still want to believe that it will be in August-September. After all, a guy from their marketing department let slip that the expansion was to be released “this summer”.

I’m with you Jasher. I play all eight professions, and I never have any difficulties picking any of them, except elementalist. It’s a matter of play style I guess. I only ever play kiting builds (mesmer, engineer, etc.), maybe that’s why I can’t even play d/d.

Hi all.

Thief is a profession designed around stealth, and its stealth builds work rather well. Unfortunately, two other professions encounter problems with stealth: mesmer and engineer. This is not a balance thread, so no “nades OP” or “kitten daze spam” here, please.

Engineer. The major problem you encounter when playing a stealth build on an engineer is that leap finishers don’t reveal you even if you deal damage, but blasts do. Since engineers don’t have that many leaps, but A LOT of damaging blast finishers, they end up being revealed all the time, the biggest offender being EG #4, since the damage ticks it deals AFTER the blast will also reveal you.
Suggested improvements:

- Make blast finishers combo after the damage is dealt, similar to leaps. It won’t change much for thieves (they have easier access to stealth anyway), but would be a great QoL change for engineers.

- EG #4 ticks shouldn’t reveal you. The on-dodge bomb is fine.

Mesmer. The biggest problem with stealth mesmer (apart from the slightly over the top PU duration) emerged with the last patch. If you spec into Chaos for PU (or even for the stab on shatter trait), and you take the trait Master of Manipulation, you gain 2s of Mirror on your manipulation skills. Who thought this was a good idea? Mass Invis is a skill that is used ONLY for stealth, and the trait reveals you in every situation that is not a 1v1, making it almost useless in roaming. Even on Blink, it’s bad, since you often use it in combination with a stealth skill. And on Feedback… yeah.
Suggested improvement:

- Replace the Mirror on the trait by another skill. Power Cleanse would be cool, but not really original since it’s given in the inspiration line. Signet of Midnight (AoE blind) would work very well also.

I don’t play stealth trap ranger, so I don’t know if they are issues with them as well.

Stealth has enough counterplay as it is: if you recall, pre-patch, in tpvp, only one meta build was using stealth. The other stealth professions (mesmer and ranger) were not considered very viable. The problem we face now is the burst. Reduce the stats from the amulets and you won’t have trouble against stealth builds anymore.

Frankly it depends on the profession. For example, the build diversity on my mesmer was clearly improved: on a power shatter build only, I can choose to run PU for more stealth, stab on shatter, the new illusion line for a bit more burst, or Inspiration for the nice support. Even in domination, I’m constantly switching between Power Block and Mental Torment, and between the quickness on interrupt and the boon strip. Heck, I can even choose to NOT run DE thanks to the new Inspiration GM!

On my engineer also, every trait line has its strengths, and with the new Inventions line, I don’t feel obligated to ALWAYS take the swiftness on kit/vigor on swiftness combo.

The only profession I played since the patch with less build diversity would be thief. But I think that’s just a side effect of the exaggerated burst everyone is delivering.

Pimsley.3681:

If not, then I have a similar story; When I was floating in space last week, I threw a horse on a trampoline.

With no gravity, I can’t imagine it was extremely impressive to watch.

…Respect.

lujate.5432:

I didn’t think the matches could get any more lopsided, but I was wrong. Post 23 Jun 15 patch, worse than ever. /sigh

You can’t speak from your experience only. For example, I played seven games yesterday, and in three, the score was 500-49x, and the others were interesting as well. Not saying that the matchmaking’s better, but I don’t think it is worse

How is that better than just letting the players test it out for themselves?

Tip: drop the berserker amulet! Marauder is better now.

Other than that, the balance is actually rather ok for a patch night. Of course, it’s worst than it was yesterday morning, but at least it’s very refreshing. The first balance changes are starting to drop (MtD, thanks Anet), and if they keep a good rhythm, the patch will have been a success.

Kagamiku.9731:

pvp shouldn’t revolve around who lands the 1st burst.

It’s a bit caricatural: you can always use a tankier amulet, and you can most of the time survive the first burst if you have some CDs up. Remember that in FPS games, the guy who delivers the initial burst usually wins. I like that GW2 is more fast-paced than ever.

But I think a lot of people didn’t realize that the berserker amulet doesn’t give Vitality anymore. I played all my games last night with this amulet, not knowing why people died so quickly. Once everyone settles for the Marauder amulet, it might get better.

Laraley.7695:

Penguin.7906:

DaShi.1368:

More premades….

And this is a bad thing?

It is bad news for soloquers.

Nobody likes a solo vs premade situation. But if solo players decide to form a premade, there is no reason to think that a premade vs solo scenario would be more likely. On the contrary: more premades means that the MM system can work more fluidly. Ideally, a queue mostly composed of premades could find good matches pairing premades against one another, and relatively quickly, since they only have to find two guild-MMR that are rather close, instead of considering the numerous criteria of the soloq MMR.

DeWolfe.2174:

Worried about how this system will empower and favor Guild groups over a Worlds militia. Guild groups already have an advantage as it is. Hoping the dev’s keep this in mind while balancing.

It really looks like guild are going to have a even bigger role in HoT. It’s a good idea I think (it’s in the name of the franchise), and there is a lot of cool stuff coming with it. Think about it: guild banners (incoming regiments of fierce soldiers walking under theirs colors), Mad Max style squadrons, guild hymns, etc.

It could also diminish the strength of a PU zerg. One way to go around that would be to have a server guild, where every active player in the server is, and have the people in the zerg represent. We have that on my server during the night, to have enough people to claim objectives and get bonuses: I guess we could get an equivalent guild for during the day.

Cynz.9437:

what happens in gw2:
-> you get abogve 50% win rate
-> game puts you against better opponents but actually worse teammates than you had before… this is my actual issue with system

i don’t mind facing tougher opponents, i just mind trying to fight esl teams while pugs on my team can’t get a single point whole game…

Three factors are identifiable here:

1) The match-making system tries to have an equal average MMR between teams. You can very well have bad team mates and still have the same average MMR as the other team.

2) GW2 pvp community is small, and therefore the skill variance in a team can vary greatly depending on what time you play, which queue (people are trying out professions in unranked), and MMR.

3) The “OMG-my-teammates-are-scrubs-and-my-opponents-are-pros-with-cheese-builds” factor, which is a normal and harmless delusion everyone experiences in competitive games.

Teutos.8620:

Cynz.9437:

- allow first match per day ignore 50% win rate rule :/

There is no such rule. This is how a good match making works.

1.) You win vs your opponents? Your mmr-rating increases, and you will face stronger opponents.
2.) You lost? you will face weaker opponents the next time.

If you win about 50% of your matches, the match making system is working perfectly fine to find you opponents about your own strength.
If you win more than 50% -> The match making can either not find suitable opponents (due to a small community); the match making process is not working or your own mmr-rating was still too low, and has therefore to increase further.

Thank you! I find it odd that you don’t understand that, Cynz. Why would you want to have a ratio above 50%? If you improve gradually, you should in the long run have a win ratio a little over 50%, but certainly not over 60 or 70%. Every Glicko or Elo based MM system works like this, and that’s exactly what we want. I don’t want to win all the time. I want to play against equally skilled players.

The only possible reason to have an a win ratio well over 50% would be to queue in one of the best teams. In that case, the system couldn’t find you enough good teams to play against. This is a problem for the small minority we see in ESL, but for the rest of us, 50% is fine.

Dude that sucks. Did you queue during the final of the Champion’s League or something?

Sadrien.3470:

reviving someone through walls

That’s definitely intended: reviving does not require a LoS. You constantly see thieves drop their refuge and rez safely from a ledge/behind a wall in pvp, even in major tournaments, and Anet never said anything.

The range on mesmer GS (and every other ranged attack) is probably due to the way Anet calculates the range when you are standing above your target. If you shoot from a ledge, your range increases. Let’s say that it’s because… err… because we have a better overall vision of the map.

Smollett.6270:

Nice gameplay.
4/0/0/4/6 ?

Looks like 2/0/0/6/6 to me. He doesn’t apply weakness on Steal (at least in the clip I watched to make sure).

lmperdigao.2567:

I hope never. Seasons did more harm than good for those players dedicated to WvW.

But for casual roamers, WvW seasons are such a good time! Please Anet! How difficult can it be?

Purecura.1795:

I have to disagree with Sorel and Jurica on my behalf, regarding Lockdown. I main Lockdown and when it comes to team fights I cannot stress how many times I’ve turned certain losing fights around for my teams favor, by the use of interrupts and AoE dazing. I utilize staff and sword/focus. A skilled lockdown player can offer team fights many unique benefits that a P-Shatter cannot. Lockdown is the hardest build to master but it also brings tons of rewards for skilled play. A master lockdown Mesmer is (IMO) truly
More terrifying than any shatter Mesmer.

I’m not saying that lockdown can’t be effective in experienced hands. But the role you play is completely different. Regarding team fights, the role of the lockdown is to offer constant CC pressure, while shatter is more of a bursty plus-oner. And, maybe that’s just my opinion, but mesmer really shines in conquest in this roamer role. The worst part of lockdown is you don’t play Portal (or no Decoy and very slim chances of survival). It’s totally fine in soloq, but a lot of mesmers like the complexity Portal brings, and telling OP to switch builds and give that up just to counter thieves is bad advice.

That being said, I love the lockdown gameplay, and I look forward to the trait changes. Shatter mesmer will include more shatter elements, and lockdown more shatter elements, and the real power of the mesmer will crush our enemies.

If you feel the need to make a forum thread about it, then obviously you want to give GW2 another try. o just do it, and see for yourself. I don’t know when you left, but for me at least, pvp became a lot more enjoyable since april 2014, where the UI was simplified and more people started playing.

Ok Photinous, don’t listen too much to all these “change your build” comments. Yes, MtD and lockdown builds do better against thieves, but they don’t always offer the same advantages: MtD is useless in team fights when a cele warrior or elementalist is present, and lockdown lacks burst and sacrifices either Decoy or Portal for Mantra of Distraction. So if you like power shatter, keep playing power shatter: if you play it right, you’ll be a huge asset.

Now, thieves in soloq can be a pain in the kitten. There is not much you can do about it. You can practice a lot by dueling thieves (learn to interrupt their stealth combo and to avoid their openers), but you’ll still be at a serious disadvantage if the thief you face is not straight up bad.

What you want to do is:
a) Never duel a thief. You’ll get killed
b) Trait for Far-reaching manipulations. Don’t use your Blink aggressively unless you’re confident you can down him or at least make the vamp rune proc. If the thief is one you and you have no other CD left, blink as far as you can, and he won’t be able to follow you with Steal (he might follow you with shadow step however).
c) Stay close to your clones, and dodge when you expect a BS. The thief will be revealed by your on-dodge clone
d) Use the terrain: when you’re waiting for a burst, AAing on the side of a team fight and you know the thief is around, get to a place where the thief can’t port to. My favorite spots: the scaffholder on Mine (you can jump on it at a certain place without taking the ramp) and the excavating machines on Quarry.

Cynz.9437:

try to queue 6 times in a row as solo vs top esl team and then tell me how it is fun

In that case, I’m pretty sure I would lose mostly because these players are better than me, not because their build is cheesier or my team mates are bad. I play a Panic Strike d/p thief lately, with vamp runes. You don’t get any cheesier than that.

Naix.8156:

Even a couple in comms is a significant advantage.

Please. Even games that include a soloq system WITHOUT adapting the MMR to the party size allow couples in soloq. The advantage is mostly in your head. I wouldn’t be so certain that solo queuers are the majority. I’d say that solo and duo queuers are the majority.

Personally, I would like to see a full premade queue only, and a queue which has the curent system (with adaptative MMR), but where you could only play if your party size is three or less. Naturally, it would mean giving strong incentives for people to team up (maybe the new guild LB?), to ensure there is enough people playing in the full premade queue.

Malediktus.3740:

But this is a game which people play to have fun, not a real war. Otherwise people should stop complaining about trolls, spies, hackers, etc, too. Because everything is fair in war.

I get your point: the game should stay fun. But there are plenty of popular games where you use strategies to demoralize your opponent in order to win. Think about Monopoly for example. Killing the commander requires a good coordination and a minimum of skill (a lot more than following a commander, by the way). So if it works, I see no reason for it to be rewarded. It can be countered by having more than one commandant, or by having a particularly tanky commander in nomad gear.

WvW is already a lot about mind games. If a zerg gets wiped too many times, the players go to bed, allowing your world to cap stuff. Pin-snipping is just another aspect of this undermining.