Guild Wars 2

eye floater.7140:

Almost any other class can be run down and finished off, but thief can’t in most cases. Yes, much of it is a L2P issue, but I think thieves rely on stealth too much.

Warriors can pretty much outrun anything, those guys can fly off like Usain Bolt when they want to disengage or just decide that they don’t want a fight.

Thieves rely too much on their class specialty? You don’t say…. This is just all amounting to far too much Qew Qew from an inexperienced player.

Roll a thief, learn how it works and you’ll soon learn and understand counters for it.

Aza.2105:

Sense of progression? Why should that be needed for pvp?? Progression has nothing to do with engaging in combat with others, the only progression pvp needs is the individual getting better at the game, realizing their strengths and weaknesses in relation to their competition.

The only thing the ranking system does at this time is:

• Shows who cheated with the skyhammer exploit

• Shows who played the game much longer than others

None of the two are relative to a individual being skilled at the game or not. One cheated and one has more time to put into the game than another person. Both circumstances are irrelevant when it comes to pvp.

Because people like to have goals to work for, it’s the same reason why people like to unlock titles and others are achievement hunters, it just happens that they want it to be a part of PvP and why not?

Uhtameit.2413:

Static.9841:

How is this working with Legendaries? If they can be applied across the board, doesn’t this somewhat devalue a legendary to being just a skin if I can throw it on anything I want?

It probably does, with that being said a legenday in pvp will only be a skin anyway.

In PvP that goes without saying, but it’s kind of hilarious and also sad at the same time if I can apply Incinerator and Quip to a level 1 character.

How is this working with Legendaries? If they can be applied across the board, doesn’t this somewhat devalue a legendary to being just a skin if I can throw it on anything I want?

Uhtameit.2413:

I wonder what report option they pick, none fits that case and it’s not like you’re to blame…xD

“Player using sense of fairness”. I mean, how dare they!

Ah you’re right, I thought I had read somewhere that different pieces could cost more, but this isn’t the case after I reread the wardrobe announcement.

Flexibility to change your appearance will also be determined by how many charges it requires to reskin to specific pieces.

Uhtameit.2413:

Static.9841:

No, not “everyone” is not getting a Dragon banner

Double negation betrays your thoughts ! Everyone is getting Dragon finisher !

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah DDDD:

DAW! It was a late night last night. I R Fail

Personally I think it’s silly to quit over a banner, while it’s nice to get access to new ones (and Phoenix is beautiful), it’s not the be all and end all of the pvp game for me. I do agree that the removal of long-term goals is a little mind-boggling.

I do think those who have made the hard grind to r70 through tournaments (not SH farming) do deserve something that doesn’t negate all of the time and dedication it has taken them to reach that rank.

No, not “everyone” is getting a Dragon banner, yes it will certainly be a lot easier to achieve. Not everyone farmed Skyhammer either which is where a lot of people like yourself seem to have it twisted.

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

Don’t worry, all casuals are gonna be fake high rank dragons after this patch and in the next months.

Technically everyone is going to be a fake Dragon if you want to put it that way considering nobody has reached that goal in the current system.

jportell.2197:

Mrbig.8019:

I do it everytime. Usually my team rages on me and reports me, but who cares lol

Wow…. they should be applauding you for making it a fair match…

People would rather have the free win.

Uhtameit.2413:

I don’t really apply my values to any game since it’d be a waste of time. I’m not changing human nature on my own, and it’s not like anyone can do it. I agree with pretty much everything you said otherwise.

The devs can change things on a large scale but if more players tried to promote fun in PvP, it would be that much better. On the contrary, most experienced players will play cheesy builds even when it’s not necessary (HotJoin) and that is a shame.

Besides all that, I still question the players who have their fun by winning regardless of the means used. I mean, even in good teams there are players who are determined to only play the class they prefer and who still are somewhat successful with it (phantaram, for instance). Playing for winning just doesn’t look like a very healthy behaviour to me.

It is disappointing encountering so many builds used in tPvP in hotjoin and from some of the threads in the forums we know very well that there are players who do this simply to rank up fast rather than “this is the most fun I have in the game”.

Some get enjoyment from playing the builds they enjoy, some from winning (whether they use a meta or not), some do it purely for ego and because they think it gives them bragging rights and/or troll others regarding their achievements or having a deluded sense of superiority as if it should mean anything to the other player. The latter to me is a bigger contribution to making the environment more toxic.

I don’t really know, I find it dfficult to question people who enjoy winning in a PvP environment, whilst it’s not in regards to winning the game, do I enjoy winning the fights and get satisfaction out of it? Of course I do. It’s not sPvP, but I used to enjoy solo roaming Wv3 and finding other players to challenge, I’ve had some seriously enjoyable fights out there on my own and it’s definitely satisfying when I’m not the one who ends up dead on the ground, but it’s the fight itself that I’m enjoying the most when it’s against a skilled player or players. If I can learn something whilst being challenged by another player, hell yeah, bring it on!

A lot of what I’m saying is from playing tPvP because I rarely HJ (It’s been months actually), so you’re probably a better judge of what happens there than I am because that’s the game mode you’ve said you’ve mostly been playing lately.

Coulter.2315:

Wow I really tried to help you, so be it.

This is not a therapy session nor are you qualified to judge someones real life values against their viewpoint and objectivity in a video game. You are wildly straying from the point here.

What this boils down to is that you and I disagree, and that’s fine, but you have a hard time accepting that as if I have a corrupted set of values in and out of a game.

Static.9841:

Static.9841:

If the environment is toxic in a video game, this is where balance is required, this is NOT the responsibility of any player or set of players that you have decided do not have the same moral values and opinions you do in your actual life that you are trying to force into a game.

I beg to differ : yes, this is not IRL. Yes, we are not supposed to display morals on a daily basis in a video game. Still, a player can choose to play another game mode (HJ) or to try and find funny yet somewhat viable instead of choosing the cheese. Since the usual player won’t try another solution and will go for the easiest one available, part of the responsability for the toxic environment is his, since he made a choice to go along with the meta.

That’s not what I’m saying and I feel a lot of words are being glossed over in favour of others that might be serving as a knee-jerk reaction and thus a bigger focal point. If you want to apply morals and values into a video game, that is fine, but it’s blind to think that everyone else should as well.

My viewpoint is exactly that, my own. I don’t expect others to abide by it, especially in a video game which is the difference. Human nature is exactly what it is. If everyone in the world held the same values of honor, morals etc there would be zero conflict, this is not the case and I don’t expect it to be so in a video game. I’m not attacking anyone for their sense of morals or otherwise, again, I just think it’s futile to expect all others to follow anothers sense of them.

Again, as I’ve said before, if you choose to play the non-meta builds you enjoy (as we have spoken about and ascertained that we both do) then great, but others choose to play these build to win and gain their enjoyment from winning, there’s also the concept that they might not actually play these builds and find them as boring as you or I may. Yes, there is a number of players who bandwagon on to these builds because of them being the strongest and most effective and simply think they can win just by selecting them.

I’ll concede that it’s in part the responsibility of the bandwagoner type mentioned above that adds to the toxicity of the environment, but the only people who can change that are the creators of the game itself and the ultimate responsibility lies with them by providing balance and creating more build diversity.

Coulter.2315:

No it can’t, you and I are talking about when both sides have a choice to use something kittenty and both sides would have a better experience if neither of them took that choice. You seem to be fixating on something thats more complicated than you think and doesn’t relate to the subject we’re discussing. Go watch the documentary, you’ll learn stuff and its good to learn. Coming out with “utopian dream” when the best rule we have for human beings interacting is “don’t do kitten to me and I won’t do kitten to you” seems to be like clutching for straws.

Watch the doc

No. Your documentary has zero value here. Again, heed your own words in applying real life models into a video game environment. Stop forcing your personal morals and values into a video game environment where you are encountering people from all walks of life with differing views from your own on how to play and what builds to use.

Coulter.2315:

If you make the environment toxic to play in with that rationale you’ll be sorry in the end. If you want to complain about something that you find ugly in the future you will have no basis to make the point from. Not partaking in bad things allows you a moral ground to speak from. These apply to you and you alone, if you wish to bring them into a game, that’s all fine, but you cannot rationally expect every other player to do so.

As far as Japan goes they didn’t have nukes to respond with so it can’t be compared to a situation where the other team can use the OP thing too.

If the environment is toxic in a video game, this is where balance is required, this is NOT the responsibility of any player or set of players that you have decided do not have the same moral values and opinions you do in your actual life that you are trying to force into a game.

Anything outside of a video game in any sense of morals, fairness or otherwise, yes, I certainly can. Applying your personal values/morals/honor to a video game expecting millions of other players (depending on the game) to do the same is an exercise in futiliity and merely a utopian dream.

The difference between you and I is that I can look at the matter at hand objectively without bringing my personal morals and values into it. This is a video game, not real life. I play what I find to be fun and I am respectful towards my fellow player, but I do not expect the same in return, especially not in a PvP environment where winning is what is rewarded.

It can be applied when you’re talking about fairness and honor.

Coulter.2315:

He invoked the Prisoner’s Dilema not me, he’s using it incorrectly to justify bad actions. As for your statements on missiles you know the Cold War remained cold because people didn’t make the kittenty choice and everything ended better than it could have. If you don’t value the consequences of your actions in a game thats fine, I’m just pointing out the flawed logic in using Game Theory or real life models to justify ‘no honour’ choices when those very subjects show the honourable road is better.

I recommend you go on youtube and type “Richard Dawkins Nice Guys Finish First” its a lovely old documentary (45mins) about this very topic and how it is seen in the animal world.

Its a good watch and I would recommend it to any friend.

World War II, America dropped a nuke on Japan and caused them to surrender.

It’s not about valuing consequences in a game or not, you just said yourself about applying real life models into video games, the same goes for a sense of honor and ‘fairness’ when the game only knows winning and losing.

Uhtameit.2413:

I can draw the line easy enough : the cheese is in my sandwich. I don’t eat thieves, how kittened up are you?

Now I want a sandwich

Coulter.2315:

bhagwad.4281:

Because if I don’t the other team will. So many times I’ve had to log out and log back in with my decap just to counter another decapper.

This is just FYI for those who wonder why people play these builds. It’s the prisoner’s dilemma. Logical people making logical decisions.

You do know the result of the Prisoner’s Dilema is that cooperation is best, right? Everyone who kittens up that game says the same thing (translated into gw2) “I played decap cause i thought the other team would”. The whole point is if everyone together says “No i won’t play that kitten” then everyone wins.

In a perfect world, this would be the case, this is not a perfect world. Were the world at war, not all countries would apply the same rules of engagement, someone fires a missile another fires a nuke.

Yes, this is a video game not a world war, but the same reasoning applies. Because you have a sense of honor – and I’m not knocking you for that – does not mean the rest of the playerbase cares or will apply any sense of honor in return, this does not make them bad players/people or anything else, siimply that people are different. I personally believe that honor is not something that exists in a video game.

Even if these rigid meta builds didn’t exist, there would always be something to complain about: theif is cheese, stealth is cheese etc, where is the line drawn?

“Everyone wins” when balance happens, sure some will complain that their builds have been destroyed, but the smarter more creative player will still find a way to make their classes great – someone had to actually tweak a build to come up with what are current metas and share them with the community, these are the creative players, others will sit back moaning because they cannot make a decent build for themselves until a new build has been shared and then try and emulate it and bandwagon on to it.

I’m going to leave a quote here from my old FGC days (it’s not mine). I would also like to put on record that I enjoy build diversity rather than forcing myself to play a meta build, I don’t do this because I have a sense of honor, value or superiority over anyone who chooses to play meta, I do it because I enjoy playing what I play and that’s what this should be about regardless of your reasoning. If you enjoy playing meta builds, more power to you.

I think it’s blind for one person to say that they play for fun whilst others play to win. This is a competitive game, player vs player offers the most rewards to those who win, APs/Titles are awarded for winning, PvP at its core is about winning. It’s absurd to think that someone playing to win does not derive any enjoyment from winning or playing the game.

I don’t agree with his use of the word “scrub” in this context, but I’m too lazy to edit it, anyway….

A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which ones tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Let’s consider two groups of players: a group of good players and a group of scrubs. The scrubs will play “for fun” and not explore the extremities of the game. They won’t find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly. The good players will. The good players will find incredibly overpowering tactics and patterns. As they play the game more, they’ll be forced to find counters to those tactics. The vast majority of tactics that at first appear unbeatable end up having counters, though they are often quite esoteric and difficult to discover. The counter tactic prevents the first player from doing the tactic, but the first player can then use a counter to the counter. The second player is now afraid to use his counter and he’s again vulnerable to the original overpowering tactic.

The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

What you must remember is that sure, some people play for fun, but I’ll wager you’re not having a lot of fun if you’re losing hours of matches over and over and getting sandbagged leading some of those players to boycott game modes, but I digress. Others enjoy the competitive edge, the feeling that comes with winning no matter how it was done, or in this case what build they have used, this is where they gain satisfaction and their sense of fun.

Keep an open mind.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Static.9841:

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

I’ve been a pw build since January when everyone would laugh at you using PW for being the weakest skill in the weapon setups. It’s just sad that one small change that’s actually still weaker than the original version, could change the feeling of a worthless attack to a skilless attack.

That being said, swinging in thin air sometimes have purpose. For example if you have 2s left on your healing skill, wasting initiative for a 2s breather can save your life.

But agreed , spamming PW isn’t the way to play S/P. Those people die easily with well timed attacks. More high-end thieves will know when to use pw besides the other 4 skills which all have their purposes.

I’ve seen some use the swing in the air to soley be an evade, I have no doubt it’s viable. However, a huge amount of the time, I see them doing it because they think they’ll hit something. The sad thing is, I’ve rarely seen a decent PW thief who properly times and sets up their attack. I’ve played against a few good ones, but the huge influx of bandwagoners are horribly clueless.

Uhtameit.2413:

DanzelOPP.5068:

You have to play what the meta gives you. If you Tpvp and don’t play the meta you will probably hold your team back. Decap engie is so wide spread because its a troll build and solo q is the new hot join. I would recommend going solo in team q.

Or you can stop playing soloQ and teamQ when the meta is terrible, you know.

This isn’t a solution. Why should anyone have to stop playing any game mode they enjoy?

Yes, there is nonetheless a time where they consciously choose to play it. Whether it’s out of frustration or just to win, there is a part of responsability involved when you choose something.

The only time I played something OP was when elementalist was OP, and even then I used Ether Renewal so there was room for counterplay. Even so, it was my choice to keep playing it and thus I was responsible for it.

I don’t think it’s quite as black and white as that. If a superior build is available, do you really expect people not to use it? There is no such thing in a video game as honour, as much as you may have your own personal values and opinions on why you won’t use a meta build (I don’t either btw because I find my build a lot more fun, not out of a sense of honour or good values), the majority of the playerbase will not share you opinion which is quite heavily reflected in what you will encounter in tPvP – I can enter a game, see the opposing team (and in fact even my own if I’m rolling solo) and know already what builds people are going to be using.

The only thing that will fix this is balance, expecting players to ignore legitimate builds will see you waiting until you’re a bleached skeleton in the desert – it’s simply not going to happen. We cannot change the balance of the game, only the developers can do that. Players have given a lot of constructive feedback on how to fix some of these builds in order to promote more diversity in the game, this has been happening for a long time and not a lot has been done about it. Developers are “aware” but no change, maybe we’ll see some on April 15th, but the ball is solidly in their court.

DanzelOPP.5068:

They are abundant because they are effective. And yes people are only complaining because of that fact. Decap engie has been here for awhile it’s just people didn’t realize how effective they could be in an unorganized setting. Why else would they come here and complain if a decap per hadn’t rocked their world?

Which is pretty much what I said? People roll with them because that’s currently the strongest build, when so many people are using it others are going to end up following suit because they feel they have to in order to have a chance against them.

The thread is called “why I play decap engi” not “waaahhhh so many decap engis”. Please.

DanzelOPP.5068:

I love how you guys are saying that these people have no skill yet you complain here because they owned you? Responsible? I am responsible for a legit build in the game and mechanics in the game? LOL sir!!

Who said we got owned? I don’t remember typing that anywhere. Pay attention to what’s being said. Reasons are being given as to why certain players might end up electing to use these builds and why they are so abundant.

Uhtameit.2413:

Static.9841:

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

Given that they are the ones choosing to play those builds, they are as much responsible as ArenaNet is.

You’re going to get this with any fotm build though, look at how many fear bombing necros suddenly appeared way back before that was ‘adjusted’.

Some players will leap on it for bandwagoning and easy wins, others end up falling into out of sheer frustration.

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

Luke.4562:

Not really, desperate people tend to make desperate decisions.
It’s like following this mentality: “If they cheat why shouldn’t I do this?”… and if you think about it, that’s the logic, the way of thinking process that makes real wars keep exhisting.
Now in a PVP environment people aren’t so desperate like in a real context, but competition moves most kind of people really close to it.

Simply…
…It’s the way stupid people deal with the world.

Unfortunately it’s the way that most players in Team Q have been dealing with things. I get into so many games vs multiple warriors and decap engis that it’s discouraging to come in with a build you actually would like to play rather than a build you feel you have to play in order to be a bigger benefit for your team against those are rolling this way.

The state of current meta builds isn’t simply a case of “if they cheat, I should too”, it’s turning into a case of “if I don’t roll similar builds, my team is going to be in trouble”. Until these kinds of builds are better balanced, there’s very little on offer to build diversity .

chriswho.8605:

Not even a single response from devs one week after, what does that mean ? They don’t give a crap about it ? It’s just sad, we could’ve had some discussion about all this, but here, it’s just a slap in our faces.

I would say this is mainly because there are so many threads regarding this issue, they aren’t going to answer every single one of them. Evan did answer in one of the threads and got a very disrespectful response from one particular user, so I doubt it’s encouraging to them when even the responses they get are toxic.

Kuper.2641:

lol, Get on my level son.

Ouch!

I know on TC a lot of PvPers were grumbling about no rewards until April 15th and decided to go on hiatus until then, I can’t speak for other server populations however.

Uhtameit.2413:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

I kind of tried to make them see this difference for a few days and stated why r55 shouldn´t be the top, but it doesn´t seem that they listen to that argument.

On the other hand, you are a :

1) a skyhammer farmer
2) playing exclusively decap engi in soloQ
3) playing exclusively decap engi on Skyhammer in HotJoin

If anything, you are one of the reasons rank is now meaningless so you shouldn’t be arguing at all.

But, but, prestige and fame!!!

The funniest part about this whole thing, is that had he not have been Skyhammer farming before Anet mitigated the exploit to farm with AoE and the entire 2 teams dropping to their deaths, he’d still be R55 or lower. From this, I agree that he has made ranks meaningless to his argument.

In all fairness, despite being the forum’s biggest cartoon character, you can’t really bash him for using a legitimate build that a ton of other players also use, no more than you can Hambow warriors. The lack of build diversity is to blame here when certain build types are the current meta and need balance.

You can however bash him for constantly trying to throw out the idea of skill and dedication when he intentionally prioritises Skyhammer as his go-to map for the easiest route to rank up. Unfortunately hypocrisy is an empty concept for some.

Uhtameit.2413:

Static.9841:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

You won nothing here, nor in real life

So pretty much like you and those Skyhammer games then?

Run along now kiddo, Bernard Matthews is calling your name.

I don’t mean to say, but he seems to have limited abilities to read and think, don’t waste your time xD

You sir, have a very valid point

The only thing is, if it’s retroactive, you’d need to move the goal posts or tier it, otherwise current R70s would automatically get most of the titles (provided they achieved it via tournaments) and still have nothing to strive for.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

You won nothing here, nor in real life

So pretty much like you and those Skyhammer games then?

Run along now kiddo, Bernard Matthews is calling your name.

infantrydiv.1620:

I forgot to mention that this idea would also reward currently high ranked players who have won thousands of games on their main class with a cool title that most players below 60 do not have yet.

By this, do you mean to make it retroactive so that the thousands of games are rewarded?

And you got owned

bok, bok.

Blah blah blah “you don’t know what it was like man”.

Yeah, I do. Like I said previously which you saw so fit to gloss over, I’ve been in PvP since launch. Some of us chose to not skyhammer farm for our ranks, at that time I was rank 42, I earned my way, shame you didn’t for such big words and so, so many of them.

Like so much of the contradictory garbage you post in these forums, you should heed your own words before throwing them out like candy.

GG turkey, GG.

I’m just going to leave these here

RE dragon rank:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

+1, very mindfull. dragon rank is just no life.

RE Skyhammer farming:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Evan Lesh.3295:

We are aware of this and are taking steps to mitigate this type of play.

Before you take too many steps.
Think for a momment, why a very high number of high ranked players (Included the winners of PAX) are doing this farm.

We are doing it, because at rank 50, it´s the only way to rank up at a decent path. This is not really players fault. It´s your system´s flaws and reward system who are forcing us to make this kind of farm.

If you give rank points for non skill things, instead a huge amount for winning a match, this is what happens.

Even if you try to nerf it, until this rank reward system changes, rank farmers will find another way.

Summaryzing, we don´t do it because it´s fun, no. It isn´t. We do it, because it would take insanely lot of time doing it “normal” at rank50/60, therefore if we want to have the next rank “some day” we should do this.

Well, now it’s clear what type of player you are, your skill and dedication to running in with AoE and dropping down a hole At least those casuals you so complain about will get their ranks using so much more skill than you did and actually playing the game as intended.

GG. Like the turkey, you’re done.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

You are getting boring to read man, those adjectives are not even fun anymore. Don´t be sad If I don´t answer you specifically at some point, it´s just you became boring.

You shouldn´t worry about me mate, whatever I want to achieve, I´ll success on it. To let you know, I stand on the top 10 mmr in solo Q europe, r55´s getting dragon is just a mistake by arenanet.

I´ll leave the title of master forum poster to you, haha.

No doubt it’s boring, when you fail to have any kind of counter-argument, basic comprehension or debating skills, you’re bound to lose interest.

It seems even in the other threads about the ranking with your flow of QQ you’re constantly being called out by higher ranking players for being an ignorant HJ/Skyhammer rank farmer. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to find any posts where a single person has agreed with you, seriously man, it’s like the Bermuda triangle out there, I’ll have a better chance at finding the lost Malaysian airliner than I will finding someone who has backed you up anywhere.

Trust me, I don’t worry about you one little bit It’s cute though how you like to pretend you don’t want so much attention but continually try to state your ranking in every thread you’ve posted in about rank. Attention seeking at its finest. Keep giving yourself all that positive reinforcement, lord knows, nobody else is giving it to you.

Again, congratulations on parroting back what was said to you. Forming our own words and ideas are hard man! Now go lie down and have a rest, your head must be hurting from all those attempts at thinking

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Static.9841:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

You can keep up with all those life-lessons and completely blow-up your mind as much as you want with your funny talk about following others, attitude and all that stuff that has nothing to do with our proposal.

You are getting way too repetitive with those assumptions about our proposal being above others and egotistical and all that stuff. All I can say is that I believe this makes you happy, other than that you sound like a complete silly individual posting dialy on forums losing a precious time on a lost cause.

You could possibly apply for an in game Nobel Prize about Videogaming attitudes, haha.

And the word of the day is irony.

You keep saying “our proposal” like anyone here has agreed with you. You also clearly don’t read very well, I didn’t say anything about anyone other than YOUR forced opinion that you seem to want to bring up on the forums any time rank is mentioned. Oh dear…

I don’t recall saying anyone other than you was egotistical, in fact I already stated I had respect for other R70 players. Whoops, there go your reading skills again

It’s quite clear you cannot comprehend words nor give anything close to an educated response so fallback on mindless drivel. You’re nothing but another forum warrior without anything of worth to say. You are clearly incapable of following any kind of debate or formulating any kind of counter-argument and I will no longer waste my time with you.

You should really start reading over other threads and you´ll realize I´m not either the first, nor the only one who has brought this proposal on the table.

I´m glad you finally realised you were wasting your time here, it´s the more wise word I´ve read from you so far. Hopefully that gives you insight for future posts.

You should really start learning to read….

The only insight is that anything that comes from your keyboard are the words of an ill-informed and ignorant forum troll. Enjoy your childish rage at R55s getting a banner you so covet as ‘prestige and fame’.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

You can keep up with all those life-lessons and completely blow-up your mind as much as you want with your funny talk about following others, attitude and all that stuff that has nothing to do with our proposal.

You are getting way too repetitive with those assumptions about our proposal being above others and egotistical and all that stuff. All I can say is that I believe this makes you happy, other than that you sound like a complete silly individual posting dialy on forums losing a precious time on a lost cause.

You could possibly apply for an in game Nobel Prize about Videogaming attitudes, haha.

And the word of the day is irony.

You keep saying “our proposal” like anyone here has agreed with you. You also clearly don’t read very well, I didn’t say anything about anyone other than YOUR forced opinion that you seem to want to bring up on the forums any time rank is mentioned. Oh dear…

I don’t recall saying anyone other than you was egotistical, in fact I already stated I had respect for other R70 players. Whoops, there go your reading skills again

It’s quite clear you cannot comprehend words nor give anything close to an educated response so fallback on mindless drivel. You’re nothing but another forum warrior without anything of worth to say. You are clearly incapable of following any kind of debate or formulating any kind of counter-argument and I will no longer waste my time with you.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

I have never said my opinion is the only viable one. As everything in life, there has many ways of addressing a problem (r55 becoming dragon), what others & I are stating is what we consider the best way to address the problem.
It´s also quite easy to cast an assumption, because if you were any of a top player existing in this game, I´d already know you, see?
Furthermore, if you were to be one of the players I´m talking about, evidently your opinion would be very different on what it is currently.

On the other hand, you are no more than a funny buffoon, and some conflictive kid who wants to spend his time on the forums on a daily basis to raise polemic. And I coudln´t care less about your concerns with me, everything you would state about me flies as the dust in the win.

I´m deeply comfident about my opinion. You are simply wasting your time thinking you´ll achieve anything else.

Your constant stream of overstating the same opinion in your typical egotistical manner would be evidence otherwise of how you view your opinion above all others. This is further evidenced by your complete dismissal of anyone elses viewpoint coupled with the bizarre idea that they all must be newcomers.

So, your view is that were I a rank 70 player, my opinion would be different? Oh dear, you know nothing John Snow!

I welcome PvP being revitalised over what banner I may obtain. Many former top players have left already because of the lack of actual balance changes and the state of play has stagnated, fixing this > banner.

Do I think that R70 players deserve something for their efforts? Of course, but about a banner, I do not care.

Ah so now you’ve run out of competent words, thought and ideas and wish to parrot back something I have said to you? golf clap.

I don’t know nor care who you are, this is purely because of your attitude and disrespectful behaviour. I do know and care about the opinions of other R70 players, the difference being is that because they have been very respectful any time I have interacted with them or played against them in a game, not to mention I’ve actually SEEN those people. Perhaps you should follow their suit. The real shame is that you might actually be a competent player, but nobody is going to care when you have such a poor attitude.

For the record, there’s a huge difference between confidence and ignorant delusion.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

another one eh.. stop being greedy,a nd selfish if you still cling to your argument that rank 80 only goes to rank 70+ players you will not get a lot of support. but if your argument is how rank 70+ players need more compensation like more reward chest open reaching rank 80 then we have an agrreement.

Finally the words of a rational mind. This I agree with.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

I´m actually happier when nobody cares about me on a videogame, it is so good that I can play alone without being mentioned often, and getting congratulated and praised by random players giving me thanks for carrying them the game, is more than enough self-satisfaction to me. They already recognize in game my skills and give me thanks for my contribution.

You should really start reading more threads in order to see that my point is not only being raised here by me. Many other players share this thought.

And lastly, yes, r55 can be farmed in something like 3-4 weeks by playing intensively. You could even ask a pro gamer to pay him some money and get farmed your dragon in the next pvp system, since with actual rank points, r55 can be farmed easily within 2-3weeks playing constantly

You seem to contradict yourself quit a bit there. You don’t want people to care about you, yet you incessantly state your opinion as the only viable one and disrespect your fellow PvPer in the same breath regardless of what rank they are. You cast assumptions on the time people have spent along with their dedication in PvP and label them newcomers without any evidence to back this up. You seem to be more concerned with gaining notoriety as a forum warrior.

I have to ask you seriously, do you honestly think that every player currently Rank 50-60 have only gained this rank since the rank points change not too long ago? REALLY? This only further proves how insular your mindset is.

I read threads daily, the single constant is your bad attitude, disrespect and self-elevation without anything to back it up save your go-to of “all the high ranks agree with me”, yes and look how they all flood in to back you up….

Right now, being the selfish, blind and disrespectful player that you are, you are coming off as nothing short of a cartoon character, a minor irritation to some, a source of comic relief for others and the champion of none.

Do you perhaps think that people do not care about your egotistical opinion? You’re clearly a very disrespectful player to your fellow PvPer unless they seem to fit in your pre-imagined bracket. If you had more respect for other players as some other high ranks such a Five Gauge does, people might listen to you and take on board anything relevent you might have to say.

You’re going off on a tangent now and completely diverting from anything that could even be considered a rational thought. You could pay a pro player to farm rank? You could do this anyway, you could have farmed skyhammer, you could have done any number of things, I fail to see what this has to do with anything. You’re clutching at straws because you have nothing of substance to say.

Again, contradiction, first you say 3-4 weeks, then in the same paragraph 2-3 weeks of intensive play? Do you not see how this wildy contradicts the idea of being a “casual player”? More and more, you’re starting to sound like the puppy who lost his way….

bhagwad.4281:

Static.9841:

bhagwad.4281:

Buttercup.5871:

You only focus on what is “taken away”. Did you ever consider that PvP was dying and its environment had become downright toxic? You need new blood, and you need it yesterday. This is the best thing they could have done to ensure longevity and sustenance of a solid PvP community. We have nothing to gain from a shaky raging PvP community that tears apart every time the devs tinker with class balance. We need a solid foundation, and I truly believe they’ve done the right thing to create one. A rank finisher is worth nothing if you’re queuing 30 minutes just to use it.

That’s very short sighted. Years and years later, what’s to distinguish players from beta from those who joined half a year ago?

The only thing short-sighted is your response and view point. There’s no point being king of the mountain when in fact your mountain is a molehill and your subjects are so few. You’re being very blinkered.

You are ignoring the current state and lack of popularity of PvP right now. Your viewpoint stems from elitism, over what? a Banner? Wouldn’t it be better to have a steady influx of players and new blood to pvp to actually play with/against which will then have a healthier impact on future changes?

Did you ever think the reason why little gets done to PvP could be down to the amount of players in it compared to the other 2 game modes (Wv3 & PvE) which currently makes it a smaller priority for them to change?

I’ve worked hard for my rank as well, but I welcome these changes if it brings in new players and makes PvP more popular than it already is, rather than the vacant swamp it has become.

Where is the question of “instead”? This is a false dichotomy. Anet can easily implement a system in half a day to satisfy everyone. This is not a zero sum game (pun intended) you know…

This is also not a game that caters to your own personal wishlist.

Well done on completely evading anything I said in your totally well -thought out response.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

sirflamesword.3896:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

You do you have problems with reading comprehension.
The solution I´m proposing is pretty much clear: r70 being dragon.
Don´t read if your eyes bleed. These are forums, opinion is free to be expressed.
Furthermore, There are many topics asking the same than me: r70 being dragon. There are also players in game sharing this same thought.

And guess what? Arena-net is open to this kind of feedback.

You had more time to FARM than everyone else, that’s all rank70 means. If you haven’t been able to figure that out idk what to say.

I just hope Anet doesn’t listen to all the complainers(I do agree the high ranked players deserve something be it a title or more chests), but some of use can see the good in changing ranks like this. It will FINALLY give players that can’t devote their whole lives to pvp something to go for.

I feel sorry for you mate, but Dragon Rank shouldn´t be something every casual should get. It´s meant to be for the most dedicated players. It was that way back in guild wars 1, and it has to be that way here.

I don’t even…

How is rank 55 “Every casual player”? You think these people haven’t put time in as well? Just because the rank cost has lowered, doesn’t mean every casual player is going to get Dragon in a matter of weeks. You have no vision beyond your own skewed mindset.

You have some of the most hilariously misguided opinions I’ve read on these forums, you’re spouting elitism whilst offering nothing constructive. Anyone who has an opinion any different to yours are suddenly “not veterans” or “beginners” simply because you seem to think anyone of high rank automatically agrees with your painfully blinded mindset.

You want people to pay attention to you otherwise you wouldn’t constantly be posting your attention grabbing “Look at me, look at my opinion, the only one that matters EVAR” statements whilst telling everyone else that their opinion doesn’t mean jack. This speaks volumes to your character.

You think your rank equates to “fame and prestige”, sorry to break it to you, but other than “that really annoying guy on the forums”, nobody is going to care who you are…

bhagwad.4281:

Buttercup.5871:

You only focus on what is “taken away”. Did you ever consider that PvP was dying and its environment had become downright toxic? You need new blood, and you need it yesterday. This is the best thing they could have done to ensure longevity and sustenance of a solid PvP community. We have nothing to gain from a shaky raging PvP community that tears apart every time the devs tinker with class balance. We need a solid foundation, and I truly believe they’ve done the right thing to create one. A rank finisher is worth nothing if you’re queuing 30 minutes just to use it.

That’s very short sighted. Years and years later, what’s to distinguish players from beta from those who joined half a year ago?

The only thing short-sighted is your response and view point. There’s no point being king of the mountain when in fact your mountain is a molehill and your subjects are so few. You’re being very blinkered.

You are ignoring the current state and lack of popularity of PvP right now. Your viewpoint stems from elitism, over what? a Banner? Wouldn’t it be better to have a steady influx of players and new blood to pvp to actually play with/against which will then have a healthier impact on future changes?

Did you ever think the reason why little gets done to PvP could be down to the amount of players in it compared to the other 2 game modes (Wv3 & PvE) which currently makes it a smaller priority for them to change?

I’ve worked hard for my rank as well, but I welcome these changes if it brings in new players and makes PvP more popular than it already is, rather than the vacant swamp it has become.

I don’t get this at all. At first people were complaining hard about how unobtainable Dragon was, now that it’s obtainable people are complaining, kitten ed if you do or don’t apparently….

I don’t see why they can’t do something like they did in the Wv3 Borderlands when they drained the lake, seems a bit drastic getting rid of an entire map.

Evan Lesh.3295:

We wanted to make build crafting much easier than it currently is on live. Part of this was removing underwater items from PvP. Only one map had underwater combat, but required you to consider up to 6 more build pieces (Helm, rune, 1-2 weapons + 1-2 sigils). Not only will the removal of Capricorn simplify build-making, it means that we have to store far less data inside templates when those happen.

Oh come on, this is just getting insulting now. The playerbase are not mindless monkeys that can’t figure out their builds simply because they have to consider what sigils/runes to put on underwater weapons and an aquabreather, considering that nobody crafts their build around going into water, it’s a completely moot point you are trying to make.

People complain about Skyhammer, Capricorn gets removed…..

khani.4786:

My first posts on this were done out of my passion for this game and my frustration with the loot system. I hate so very VERY much how one person can throw 4 random rares and get a precusor on the first try and someone else like me plays for thousands of hours, throws countless numbers of items in the forge and gets nothing but crap.

Seems to me that this is the crux of the matter, because you have had bad luck, and that nobody should get something you don’t have because you think they are getting it easy – having to win your way through a PvP tournament against top teams is far from easy.

With your experience in GW2, you know full well by now that anything forge related is RNG as well as champ/boss/mob drops. If you don’t like RNG, you’re in the wrong game. Complaining about RNG in an RNG based game is a whisper in a hurricane.

I personally think PvP is ruining the PvE experience because a whole lot of the skill balancing is done with PvP in mind and not what PvErs have to deal with. PvP “mobs” are not huge bags of health so what does it matter if crit damage is changed or conditions are nerfed. “What’s good for PvP is good for everyone.” is not true….but I expect this sort of attitude from this part of the forums.

I don’t think you understand that PvE & Wv3 work differently from PvP, the same changes are not applied across the board, there are many modifications that have been made for PvP that have not been applied at all elsewhere, so no, it’s not even a case of “what’s good for pvp is good for everyone”.

Having some semblance of understanding in the game you play would help a great deal in your arguments.

khani.4786:

After working my tail off since pre-launch to be able to make two legendaries myself I’m pretty disgusted at them just giving away a legendary weapon.

After reading your posts on this matter, it disgusts me that you’re on the same server, I’d be happy to personally educate you in the skill difference between Wv3 and PvP any time.

I can’t wait for the napalm storm when new traits eventually get ‘fixed/nerfed/balanced’ after people have paid gold for them and they turn out to be useless….