Guild Wars 2

TBH, this is fair.

Life Force and Adrenaline Both start with 0 at the start of the match

If the population has a lot of people online, Matchmaking Is SPOT ON.

Thanks for this.

My point is…

Everyone seems to whine about anything in the forums, when you refute their points they seem not to take it seriously. Like for example “Druid is Unkillable” argument which a lot of people use, this past top tier tourney proves that this wasn’t the case.

Those kind of topics make/ break classes when the whining gets strong enough. Which is really sad, This is only proves that there are just few skilled people in this game good enough to actually learn to get better.

So I think the forums are just full of children whining. I can even see posts like the last tourney wasn’t good because of shoutcasting, I mean.. really?

Shadelang.3012:

(deleted my previous reply because it had a lot of baseless speculation and was opinionated)

Why they were taken has no bearing on this discussion. Only that it WAS taken. And that it did have said effect.

If the meta had been projectile weapons for every class you know as well as I that the uptime on magnetic aura would NEVER have been allowed. Ele’s were able to shut down an entire mechanic COMPLETELY. With no method of bypassing. Auras can’t be corrupted. They don’t have charges. The only counter play they have is. Don’t attack.

And they were fine. No one thought they were unbalanced until tempest came out. What did it change?

It made auras a sustain method that could NOT be mitigated in any way shape or form by the opponent.

Magnetic aura (since this is relevant to the OP) SHUT DOWN all ranged projectile based weapons with almost constant uptime (This did require other skill use but the fact that it was possible AT ALL is the problem…it also wasn’t difficult to pull off as you saw it at many skill levels.) But magnetic aura never really got screamed at as being OP because the number of players that relied on projectile ranged weapons to deal damage was low (dragonhunters and longbow rangers) and generally those classes are seen in a poor light.

You only had to look at stronghold to get an idea of the affect a couple tempests would have. Doorbreakers that were unkillable even with an entire team of dpsers without INSANE coordination vs the ease at which it was accomplished. I.E. Nothing a pug group could hope to compensate for.

Were going pretty far from the OP so id like to just state this. Magnetic Aura in a 1v1 alone untraited is inferior to defensive field by the scrapper. But an ele can invest HEAVILY in magnetic aura. Gaining multiple sources of it. Causing it to heal. And making it AOE so that it could affect five players WITHOUT being confined to a circle. This makes it far superior when its invested in. Making me doubt the OP. The reason it has less duration LIKELY has nothing to do with what your opponent has in a 1v1. But the potential of each ability as a whole when all of the things that can be tied into are taken into account.

Magnetic Aura simply has more potential than defensive field when everything is taken into account. But yes theres a specific situation (1v1s) where the other skill is better.
(Edit: Which is kitten well how it should be or wed all be playing one class)

Stahhp it, you are making too much sense Shade…

Those people who:

• “Delete Ele, non-viable without Cele, yada yada

- Ele was one of the driving forces in the Proleagues

• Nerf DH traps, OP, Braindead

- NO DH in the Finals, Semis

• Druid Unkillable, SnR Broken, Nerf Pets

- You did see that Druids Crumble when focused right? The Druid Was absolutely useless when Abjured Adapted

• Nerf Thiefs, too much Dps, mobility

- Yet no one complained about the most broken class who is a better thief and warrior: Revenants

I am beginning to think that the forum population have L2P issues. Remember, the game is not always about 1v1, When someone beats you 1v1 on a node does not always mean his class is better than yours.

Maybe it was: They are better than you, You got Outplayed, or L2P

Supreme.3164:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

How is reverting the situation any better?
Now you need to invest everything you have in condiremoval …just to stay alive vs a reaper let alone kill him, now you need to massively outplay even the worst videogamer out there just for the simple fact he plays a reaper

If 1vs1 matter then why should reapers be allowed to hardcounter eles now?

INB4 you ask
If ele must use a special one build to just stand a chance vs a reaper why then the necro community expected to beat ele without changing any build?

That’s why I fully agree with the OP , a game balanced on community feedback without actual testing..will be always a mess because over 90% of that feedback is extremely biased in a way or another

Exactly, finally someone who understands. Now lets say If the devs put Condi Removal on WH or Staff now DS wont be a necessity right? But without those you HAVE to take DS.

Same with All classes, mesmer is pigeonholed into Inspiration for condi removal, any decent mesmer build MUST trait into it.

That’s why Druid has bad condition removal, unless you wanna go full bunker and take WS/DRUID/NM.

That’s one side of the story, Choices are limited. The whining even make it worse, DS got worse from being a bad trait.

They have to test these stuff before nerfing/buffing. Maybe DS wasn’t the issue? Maybe it was the condi Spam?

Now the whining makes it So that ONLY 1 SIDE OF THE STORY gets heard AND GUESS WHAT, ANET WONT TEST IT EITHER

Nova Stiker.8396:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

It’s not trash. But it’s not GM worthy either. Heres the thing eles with powerful auras will not get Cleanse trait on regen. That’s why DS was the only option going earth amidst all the condition spamming. So it’s not that its good or trash, its the only you can take if you wanna take Aura Sharing.

Now on your first point, we are talking about 2 different things. Incompetent Teammates does not equate to balance. It’s an MMR issue which is thankfully getting fixed by Season 2. Now, if you are skilled yourself and get teammates who are as skilled as you, then you can negate DS correct?

I’d argue that sacrificing Cleansing Water is the cost of team support on the level of Tempest and that Condi Spam should be toned down anyway.

My point is more from a design standpoint. It’s not fun to play against and it’s not terribly intelligent on the Ele’s part either and most of it’s counter-play relies on team mates (which, to be honest, this game is handling poorly; there isn’t such a concrete set of roles like in other games).

Yes Fair Points. I am also agreeing to the point that there is a lot of condi spamming in game which needs to be fixed to promote smarter application for them, not just mindlessly spamming marks or etc.

We shall see on season 2 if roles are more evident with the so called MMR fix. Hate to say it tho, the game is balanced around 5v5 conquest so you can’t really remove the team part aspect of it.

@style

Hey dude, I am not saying that this meta is worse. I am just pointing out that I do not want to see any unwarranted nerfs or buffs next patch just because of whining. The reason being is that because of these outcries and “pro players advising” are being used as justification to destroy a class or build or trait Without Prior Testing

Your mistake is assuming ArenaNet tests combat.

Dude, just look at staff necro, it’s the most boring weapon in the entire game. Yet, someone looked at the design and went, “This is okay, people will like this.”

The fact is, whoever is in charge of combat design and balance isn’t good. They’ve infected the game with tons of power creep and made some ridiculously bad decisions that even the most hardcore class fanboy would disagree with.

Hell, raids is a clear example of how the combat design lead has no idea what to do. You got 3 damage sponges on a timer with a handful of uber death attacks. My friend laughed when I said the most dangerous thing about the Vale Guardian was the green circle people had to stand in, then he proceeded to mock saying, “Back in my days, we fought bosses” yada yada yada.

---

At this rate, Guild Wars 2 combat will be hopelessly lost. ArenaNet needs to take a step back, look at what they got and say, “Guys, we got to bring this into 2016.”
But so far, we got the laughable joke that is EEESPPPPUURRTZ.

You are assuming too.

Who knows, maybe the reason the devs are incompetent is because the balancing is an upper management decision that prevents them from doing anything.

That’s what I hope though,, UNLESS they are really incompetent,

Zatoichi.1049:

StickerHappy.8052:

Actually Shoutbow is not enough against decent condi specs.

The shout only remove 1 conditions at a time. 2 wells will give you 4 conditions so you wanna blow off all those shouts?

Another thing is, Druidic Clarity. I just find this trait on a wrong spot, so basically you wanna blow off your AF just because you have conditions on you. So if you play on a team, you will not AF when your team needs it because you blew it off way too early.

Emphatic Bond needs to be moved to Nature Magic and let it be Conditions Converted to Boons (PET ONLY) So it does not necessarily kill your pet.

though you are technically correct that a cleanse on the shouts alone is not enough to deal with condi specs, as I mentioned above, if you are playing correctly, you should have no issues keeping condis off you with proper use of Druidic Clarity with Celestial Shadow every 10 seconds, giving you opportunities to escape/heal up/buy time for another Druidic Clarity while supporting your team immensely. Shout cleanse , in addition to evasive purity, is meant to keep poison off you so your heals go unhindered

What if we are talking about good players here like highly coordinated duos, etc.

Stand The Wall.6987:

So this thread is really about getting bad team mates and how hard life is as a solo q’r. Heard this a million times before. If you dont want to team up with randoms that could be bad, JOIN A TEAM. Seriously. What. Is. The. Big. Deal.

Life Happens.

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

It’s not trash. But it’s not GM worthy either. Heres the thing eles with powerful auras will not get Cleanse trait on regen. That’s why DS was the only option going earth amidst all the condition spamming. So it’s not that its good or trash, its the only you can take if you wanna take Aura Sharing.

Now on your first point, we are talking about 2 different things. Incompetent Teammates does not equate to balance. It’s an MMR issue which is thankfully getting fixed by Season 2. Now, if you are skilled yourself and get teammates who are as skilled as you, then you can negate DS correct?

I’d argue that sacrificing Cleansing Water is the cost of team support on the level of Tempest and that Condi Spam should be toned down anyway.

My point is more from a design standpoint. It’s not fun to play against and it’s not terribly intelligent on the Ele’s part either and most of it’s counter-play relies on team mates (which, to be honest, this game is handling poorly; there isn’t such a concrete set of roles like in other games).

Yes Fair Points. I am also agreeing to the point that there is a lot of condi spamming in game which needs to be fixed to promote smarter application for them, not just mindlessly spamming marks or etc.

We shall see on season 2 if roles are more evident with the so called MMR fix. Hate to say it tho, the game is balanced around 5v5 conquest so you can’t really remove the team part aspect of it.

@style

Hey dude, I am not saying that this meta is worse. I am just pointing out that I do not want to see any unwarranted nerfs or buffs next patch just because of whining. The reason being is that because of these outcries and “pro players advising” are being used as justification to destroy a class or build or trait Without Prior Testing

Malchior.5732:

StickerHappy.8052:

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Because 1v1s do matter to a certain degree.
It’s not fun for you to be playing randomly and you meet someone who is literally impossible for you to damage just because he chose 1 specific trait and you have incompetent team mates.

Now, if the trait is so trash in a team environment, it wouldn’t be picked at all, but it was and it was infuriating to play against such a binary trait: you either completely negate someone’s damage or you don’t and you die.

It’s not trash. But it’s not GM worthy either. Heres the thing eles with powerful auras will not get Cleanse trait on regen. That’s why DS was the only option going earth amidst all the condition spamming. So it’s not that its good or trash, its the only you can take if you wanna take Aura Sharing.

Now on your first point, we are talking about 2 different things. Incompetent Teammates does not equate to balance. It’s an MMR issue which is thankfully getting fixed by Season 2. Now, if you are skilled yourself and get teammates who are as skilled as you, then you can negate DS correct?

@Xanctus

Yes I do get your point, but cmon lets not be blind here. GW2 has the tradition of “If you whine for a long time, it will get nerfed/buffed” Turret Engies? Check. Burn Guards? Check. DS? Check.

You see, the forum whining plays a big part in this.

@Ithwilhen @All

Oh you are completely correct. They do listen to pro-players which only balance stuff on their sole intentions. Which is super sucky. You guys remember that Grouch leaked email that he said:

• “Oh players only send me some of their ideas regarding balance”

Guess what? 90% of those changes reflected on the email made through the patch. Who exactly are these “players” Ding Dong. You guessed it right.

Thuggernaut.1250:

Diamond Skin alone wasn’t bad, but the problem came from Cele D/D and after the expansion launch, Tempest. The meta builds had so much access to healing that they could boost themselves back up over 90% at will. Of course, the nerf went way overboard, and now Reapers can spam condis with impunity.

Same problem with Druid. Alone, Druid alone isn’t OP, but combined with the new shout buffs and the meta build (Nature Magic/Beastmastery), they have plenty of access to stun breaks and condi cleanses. Not to mention projectile destruction, water fields, and blast finishers. A well-played Druid is immortal in a teamfight.

Again, plenty of stun breakers? Any class can have a lot of stun breakers when you build around them.

I just mentioned the poor condi cleanses of druid? And you say they have a lot.

Listen, you can look outside the box and see how the build is good but you can’t just say “Oh they have a lot of condition cleanse” or cherry pick one aspect and base it all on that. Build making does not work like that.

2v2, A druid is supppeer easy to focus. Force him to use AF, bomb condis on him while on AF (Very wonky condi cleanses Af2 and glyphs) and CC. Done deal.

Druid Will either Use Menders or Sage which has 0 Toughness, Cleric is meh since it lacks precision. No HP either so yea.

This is the thing, 1v1 Yes These examples I mentioned are unkillable. But lemme reiterate this again PvP is 5v5, It is a Team Game

@Malchior

You are right. Here is the thing though. There were more people complaining about DS (which isn’t a problem in a team setting) because of that 1v1 MENTALITY and Anet absolutely guts a subpar trait to begin with, into uselessness.

Why? Because of the whining.

They could’ve just toned down the protection spam, not because it’s strong, because it affects allies via aura sharing.

Alekt.5803:

Hoping for.

Overload Recharge to 15 seconds, down from 20.
Hardy Conduit’s protection duration to 5 seconds, up from 3.
Elemental Shielding protection duration to 2 seconds, down from 3.
Obsidian Flesh cooldown to 60 seconds, up from 50.
Swirling Winds duration to 4 seconds, down from 6.
Shocking Aura cooldown to 40 seconds, up from 25.

Swap Stab on Overload on Swiftness on Overload

I think the forums are major driving force on what gets nerfed or buffed which Is very sad. Yes, a lot of the stuff here are constructive but the majority are just so childish.

Let’s have an example:

Diamond Skin

• Getting an ele down by 90% is an easy job, Diamond skin on its 1st iteration is such a pathetic skill to begin with. Being above 90% is hard to thing do. at 18k Hp, the opposing team will just need 1800 damage to make a GM trait useless.

• But people argue No trait should hard counter a specific build

• Here’s my answer, PvP is a TEAM GAME no one forces a condition necro to 1v1 anDS ele on point. Bring 1 Dps Class and 2v1 him. It’s so easy. I have no Idea how people see this as OP.

• The problem with players here is that they give so much Importance to WINNING A 1v1 This is not 1v1, It’s 5v5 Conquest.

Druid

• I see a lot of Complains about Druid. But to tell you the truth, out of all the elite specs, Druid has clear counters.

• Conditions and CC. Druid has only 1 source of reliable Stab which is the elite. The other needs you to be rooted and eat all the damage.

• Druid has poor condition clear. Anyone who use Verdant Etching know it needs 2-3 Seconds before the condition Clear portion procs AND you have to stay on that circle. Druidic Clarity? So you are telling me that If I get focused I need to pop AF? So what If my team does need healing at that time? And when the time comes I need AF to heal I wouldn’t have it because I used it up.

The point I am getting at is that, The forums influence the balancing in a very wrong way. It’s just the quantity of whining over the real justification of why is something being nerfed or buffed. Which time and time again, destroys build diversity in this game and Most of all If a Class will be viable or not.

I do hope the Balance team do SOME REAL TESTING before listening to the whining pvp crowd.

Again not defending these classes/ traits, just used them as few examples. There are more like this in the game which in my opinion stems a lot from forum people whining.

I just hope they do not destroy classes again next patch

Fay.2357:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Some people think Trump’s not racist or sexist.

There’ s just no accounting for fools.

^^

But basically, people who whine about condie mes being easy to play generally just hate conditions in general because they don’t know how to play against them and usually lose, and latch onto the easiest ad hominem they can: you’re bad because you’re playing an ez-mode class, and that’s why me losing to you isn’t really a loss, it’s just because you’re playing an ez-mode cancer class that takes no skill.

It’s a self-defense mechanism at its heart, if you look at it in that way. They’re being forced to potentially come to terms with the fact that they’ve got a lot of room to improve their play and skill, and that can be hard for some people. Insulting others is one of the easiest and quickest ways to defend against that self-realization.

Yeah I completely understand but the thing is though, condi mesmer although people say its cancer (sorry for the term), its very difficult to play (if someone has to play it) vs other condition classes. At the same time I do not see people whining about condi rangers, necros, engies in pvp, it’s just the mesmer with all the hate.

Why do people say Condi Mes is Easy to Play?

People often say “People just need to push X amount of buttons to…..”

I tried playing Condi mesmer, It is super hard to play for some reason. People just eat you alive. Esp Necros.

I think people think mesmer’s just mash buttons to play conditions, but man against a competitive team or even just players, it’s not really effective.

In my personal experience, Condi necros, engies and rangers are waaaayy easier to play. (Engie’s Pistol 3 can proc 6 conditions with IP, Torment and Chill Sigil, Sharpshooter, heavy Armor Exploit with 1 push of a button)

Necros can just Mark Spam/ Scepter Spam from range, AoE too.

Berserker’s Can put 7 conditions on you with 2 attacks, (Krait Rune Headbutt, Mace Burst) Make it 8 if you have leg specialist.

And yet there is so much hate for condi mesmers and I do not see where the hate is coming from.

I for one really love to see more condition mesmers.

But here is the problem (true for all mesmer builds) you have to take Inspiration which Imo kills build Diversity.

Actually Shoutbow is not enough against decent condi specs.

The shout only remove 1 conditions at a time. 2 wells will give you 4 conditions so you wanna blow off all those shouts?

Another thing is, Druidic Clarity. I just find this trait on a wrong spot, so basically you wanna blow off your AF just because you have conditions on you. So if you play on a team, you will not AF when your team needs it because you blew it off way too early.

Emphatic Bond needs to be moved to Nature Magic and let it be Conditions Converted to Boons (PET ONLY) So it does not necessarily kill your pet.

Again this is really lame. Out of all the elite mechanics, druid AF has clear counters. (CC and Conditions, And Focus Fire)

Yet, you want to get rid of those weaknesses but you cant. So basically you are pigeonholed into RaO in competitive team matches. Which actually Kills build diversity.

Win Streaks are good if you play in a team.

As a pug? No.

Even if we talk about skill level, I still get those matches (even now) People with Primordial Legend titles who play like noobs.

If you solo q, no matter how good you are, you will get matches or 1-2 persons in your team who will either go far every time and die every single time too.

So what if you are skilled but your teammates are….

So it clearly works in your disadvantage. Just because as a solo quer, you can never control the other people in your team, yes you can team chat but guess what there are those people who take advices negatively then proceed to throw the game.

• As long there is no exact way to tell MMR, you will get teammates that absolutely have no idea what they are doing. Yes Chaith, You and I both know (With the High MMR you have) you still get those people when you que.

Well Atleast we get the losing streak being broken by 1 extra pip, but I just think it’s time to address or show our MMR. I am so sick of matches that are easily winnable yet you get those people in your team that seem so oblivious to pvp mechanics.

Is this for real? Man, yes I had enlargement. Man that is so lame. I took Enlargement so that I can have another Stab Source when RaO is on CD.

RaO is the only thing that is keeping AF viable in coordinated matches.

This was yesterday so I have no idea if they fixed it already.

If you have it traited, When you stun an opponent, it puts a (random) skill on a 15 second cd. even if you didn’t get interrupted.

I get kicked out of Astral Form for no Reason at all in pvp.

It’s not moa or elixir. I just drop out of AF randomly?

Alekt.5803:

So I got curious when I saw those auto-attacks from Druids claiming that all their damage come from pet, or that they can’t do a thing without smokescale or bristleback. What about an auto-attack duel, no sigils against marauder staff elementalist?

So here is a video showing an auto-attack fight of a Mender Amulet Staff Druid ( 1050 power, 1050 healing power, 560 precision, 560 vitality) against a Marauder Amulet Staff Elementalist.

http://www.twitch.tv/aleriedespins/v/46279093

TL;DR. The Druid wins.

How many more indirect anti ranger threads am I going to see from you? It’s just starting to get really pathetic. You sound someone who is whining about every aspect.
Ele is still strong.

These are the threads you currently posted:

• Bristleback Damage
• Smokescale Damage
• Search And Rescue
• Protect Me (Why everything annoying is packaged with ranger)
• Now this

Seriously dude, ele has been in the meta for too long, while ranger after the spirit nerf has been in decline for a very long time, rangers waited patiently for that. You are good player dude but sorry to say you sound like a child whining.

@Topic

You are seriously comparing A ranger staff who has only 1 skill that is highly damaging. 4/5 skills are healing and supportive. Really?

And again you are comparing a weapon that requires an elite trait line just to use it?

zapv.8051:

StickerHappy.8052:

What do you mean?

Banner is Insta Revive (AOE)
Illusion of Life is also insta Revive (pseudo) (AOE)
Signet of mercy is also insta Revive
Glyph revive is also insta revive (AOE)
Signet of Undeath insta revive (Also AOE)

Where is the comparison here?

Search and rescue is only 1 ally, and you need to revive them in the presence of CC, cleaves, etc.

If those are better than why doesn’t anyone use them? Oh right because they aren’t. Massive cds and massive cast times.

As for transfusion, it is a GM vs a util, it is a GM vs an adept trait.

Again for those of you who like to take things in context.

• The topic was about the CDs not what is better or stronger.
• I gave the OP the reason why the other revives were on longer CDs (Which is AOE, Instant Cast, etc)
• Never did I mention which is better.
• GM vs Adept trait does not matter anymore since you get the whole trait tree compared to what he had before where trait position was very important.

reikken.4961:

StickerHappy.8052:

What do you mean?

Banner is Insta Revive (AOE)
Illusion of Life is also insta Revive (pseudo) (AOE)
Signet of mercy is also insta Revive
Glyph revive is also insta revive (AOE)
Signet of Undeath insta revive (Also AOE)

Where is the comparison here?

Search and rescue is only 1 ally, and you need to revive them in the presence of CC, cleaves, etc.

All the “insta” revive skills have 3+ second cast times. except banner which is 2s cast.
Search and rescue is an instant cast, instant teleport, and manual revive but at double speed, which is usually faster than the 3.5 s cast time on the other skills. Much stronger, even cooldown aside

Again you are not looking at the big picture, If search and rescue insta revived 3 allies then the cd will be higher.

You cannot argue that S&A is better than a 3 man res which the latter could turn a losing teamfight.

The keyword here is manual revive.

What does that mean? Susceptible to CC, Poison, Or you can kill the druid and pet.

@To the guy saying banner is affected by poison

S&A is also affected by poison, both ranger and the pet, and you can kill them, I am guessing you are a warrior main but please look outside the box.

@All

Are you guys sure Transfusion has an ICD of 40? Never knew about that.
Actually it’s only 30 seconds if you take reaper. (assuming that 40 you were saying was the DS 4 CD)

What do you mean?

Banner is Insta Revive (AOE)
Illusion of Life is also insta Revive (pseudo) (AOE)
Signet of mercy is also insta Revive
Glyph revive is also insta revive (AOE)
Signet of Undeath insta revive (Also AOE)

Where is the comparison here?

Search and rescue is only 1 ally, and you need to revive them in the presence of CC, cleaves, etc.

Phaeton.9582:

StickerHappy.8052:

Phaeton.9582:

From a condi users perspective, necromancers not withstanding, the problem is Druid and meta engi have such good access to condi removal/mitigation that even with the abundance of conditions flying about they can negate them.

Some of these powerful condition removals need to be brought into line along with the toning down of condis to keep builds viable.

Stopped reading when I read good condi removal for druid. Now please don’t argue about solo q builds.

Do you know how bad the condi removal on glyph is?

Why would you mention that trait to justify bad condi removal?

Because it’s a fact.

Glyph condi removal is the only viable condi removal you can take in a team setting.

EB (RNG and require a live pet) and SotF (requires you to get Survival Skills) are both selfish skills.

Other option than that is Healing Spring which we know is soo awful now since they made it as a trap.

Bear on the job.6273:

lol @ Druids are easily killable.

If you are killing Druids easy, you are playing against bads. Go queue pls.

If you are playing solo q (which 95% of your argument) then I can see why you are saying druids are not easily killable.

Against an organized team, 2v1 CC condition a point holder druid is easily doable.

Alekt.5803:

StickerHappy.8052:

Phaeton.9582:

From a condi users perspective, necromancers not withstanding, the problem is Druid and meta engi have such good access to condi removal/mitigation that even with the abundance of conditions flying about they can negate them.

Some of these powerful condition removals need to be brought into line along with the toning down of condis to keep builds viable.

Stopped reading when I read good condi removal for druid. Now please don’t argue about solo q builds.

Do you know how bad the condi removal on glyph is?

Is it better than 1.5 sec cast time on Healing Rain (45 sec cooldown)?

I would believe so. Healing Rain Is a water field for 6 seconds, imagine how many times you (and your allies) can blast it 450 radius too meaning you can move around it and kite. Provides you guys regen too

The glyph one is 180 radius, Healing rain is triple that it, it also has a 2-3 second delay before it actually pops out after casting a glyph. You have to stay on that glyph after 2-3 seconds to get the condi removal AND the heal. People can easily knock you off of it. No room to kite either.

Also Healing rain is a weapon skill, Getting the glyph heal means you sacrifice a utility slot.

If the ranger Staff had healing rain, I would gladly take it.

PS:

Verdant Etching is a CD reduction trait, If you want a fair comparison we have to take Aquamancer’s Training.

Which Brings healing rain to 30 second Cd. Water Field, Regen, Condi Removal, 6 seconds and 450 radius (450 Covers the Whole Side Node)

AND its 1200 Range, the glyph heal NEEDS you to be in melee when supporting your team.

Anyway no bias from me, I play both of this classes.

Phaeton.9582:

From a condi users perspective, necromancers not withstanding, the problem is Druid and meta engi have such good access to condi removal/mitigation that even with the abundance of conditions flying about they can negate them.

Some of these powerful condition removals need to be brought into line along with the toning down of condis to keep builds viable.

Stopped reading when I read good condi removal for druid. Now please don’t argue about solo q builds.

Do you know how bad the condi removal on glyph is?

But but but but…. Forum Eles say warhorn cannot work it PvP.

@Wolfric

You need to tweak your build, its all over the place.

Elemental Surge is not worth it with your build? Why? you only have 2 (3 including the passive) Arcane skills, two of those are on 60 second cds, Evasive Arcana will be better.

Crinn.7864:

StickerHappy.8052:

Crinn.7864:

yLoon.5289:

Arena failed to segregate new players and veteran players.
Arena basically throwing kittens (yes i mean kittens) into a cage filled with raging lions and hoping more kittens will join spvp, which proven a failed concept. Just look at pvp populations.

Except they do segregate veterans and new players. That’s what the MMR system does. Yes there is some skill difference in matches that occurs due to the necessity of making the queue pop, but that difference is minor.

The only reason people think that scrubs and pros are lumped together is because they’ve been playing in this MMR system for so long they have lost all concept of what new players actually play like, on top of people having ridiculously high opinions of their skill while being quick to blame their teammates.

Except we have no idea how MMR works.

If anet showed us our MMR then we can argue about it, but up to this time no one knows how it works.

Also we have no idea of the pvp population.

The pseudo code for the matchmaker actually available on the wiki.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

Obviously that’s pseudo and doesn’t contain the exact details, but to say that the matchmaker doesn’t do anything is a fallacy.
I can anecdotally confirm it works just by watching my mother play a pvp match and noting that I never see players of that skill level in any of my matches.

So why do we get this matches in pvp then? the video is proof. If MMR and matchmaking really worked, this matches should only be seen in idiots vs idiots.

Crinn.7864:

yLoon.5289:

Arena failed to segregate new players and veteran players.
Arena basically throwing kittens (yes i mean kittens) into a cage filled with raging lions and hoping more kittens will join spvp, which proven a failed concept. Just look at pvp populations.

Except they do segregate veterans and new players. That’s what the MMR system does. Yes there is some skill difference in matches that occurs due to the necessity of making the queue pop, but that difference is minor.

The only reason people think that scrubs and pros are lumped together is because they’ve been playing in this MMR system for so long they have lost all concept of what new players actually play like, on top of people having ridiculously high opinions of their skill while being quick to blame their teammates.

Except we have no idea how MMR works.

If anet showed us our MMR then we can argue about it, but up to this time no one knows how it works.

Also we have no idea of the pvp population.

Velimere.7685:

StickerHappy.8052:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

A friend and I two-queued tonight, winning against a few notable folks such as Caed, Ostrich Eggs, and Noscoc (who was three-queuing) while playing this build (Paladin’s Amulet), but then we lost with Chaith on our team… and he called the rest of us bad.

Anyway, it’s basically a bruiser variant of the Bunker Mesmer build.

Yea, you played with Five Gadget and The Team I pug with was The First Straw.

I said to them over TS, that Velimere is the best mesmer of the two… I don’t remember your mesmer name.

We did win this game because you were not been able to kill the sustain of our group fight… and I was playing bunker support like always.

It was an okay fight, but I felt you could had gave us more difficulties. Your other mesmer soloqing was a dead weight doing nothing. Probably, it would had been harder with a necro or a rev.

Your chrono bunker with some offensive crit sigils seems something I want to try out.

Will give some feedback on it.

I don’t really keep track of character names either to be honest. No worries.

Now that I think about it, wasn’t Impact with you guys in that match too?

It felt like Chaith’s build and mine were the only ones with real sustain. It seems to be a current trend now where people think that just because there are more bruiser amulets in place of bunker amulets that sustained builds are now invalidated, and I see a lot more people over-extending from a two-cap into a three-point play trading their team’s two nodes for the one. It’s like they’re ignoring what they learned from the last meta.

I really like my updated Bruiser Mesmer build, but I also recently tested this Elementalist build (Mercenary’s Amulet) and saw great results over a streak of wins while carrying team-fights, so I’m not sure how much I’ll play my Mesmer when the next season starts.

That said, I’d still appreciate any feedback you can provide.

PS: Five Gadget is not Chaith FYI

I just assumed from the account name being Chaith. I don’t really keep track of character names as per your quote. Either way, I wasn’t talking about winning against him or anything whatsoever, so it’s completely and utterly inconsequential to say the least.

However, thanks for the heads-up.

Yeap np, I asked Chaith about who that was and he said he had no idea, otherwise you had chaith on your team, you might have won the match.

I’ve faced Five Gadget numerous times and he is definitely not Chaith, altho he/ she uses the same user id.

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

A friend and I two-queued tonight, winning against a few notable folks such as Caed, Ostrich Eggs, and Noscoc (who was three-queuing) while playing this build (Paladin’s Amulet), but then we lost with Chaith on our team… and he called the rest of us bad.

Anyway, it’s basically a bruiser variant of the Bunker Mesmer build.

Yea, you played with Five Gadget and The Team I pug with was The First Straw.

I said to them over TS, that Velimere is the best mesmer of the two… I don’t remember your mesmer name.

We did win this game because you were not been able to kill the sustain of our group fight… and I was playing bunker support like always.

It was an okay fight, but I felt you could had gave us more difficulties. Your other mesmer soloqing was a dead weight doing nothing. Probably, it would had been harder with a necro or a rev.

Your chrono bunker with some offensive crit sigils seems something I want to try out.

Will give some feedback on it.

I don’t really keep track of character names either to be honest. No worries.

Now that I think about it, wasn’t Impact with you guys in that match too?

It felt like Chaith’s build and mine were the only ones with real sustain. It seems to be a current trend now where people think that just because there are more bruiser amulets in place of bunker amulets that sustained builds are now invalidated, and I see a lot more people over-extending from a two-cap into a three-point play trading their team’s two nodes for the one. It’s like they’re ignoring what they learned from the last meta.

I really like my updated Bruiser Mesmer build, but I also recently tested this Elementalist build (Mercenary’s Amulet) and saw great results over a streak of wins while carrying team-fights, so I’m not sure how much I’ll play my Mesmer when the next season starts.

That said, I’d still appreciate any feedback you can provide.

PS: Five Gadget is not Chaith FYI

Saiyan.1704:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

if u actually look at what most guardians use, aka the rule and not the kittening execption which will include procession of blades. your build is actually noticably different. but u kittening keeping hanging on how much has changed rather then looking at the overal effectivness of the build and what guardians on average use for thier optional utilities which is more often then not dragons maw and procession of blades for kittens sake!!!. which is better then medidations which only apply to your own self sustain. fury is something tons of other elite specs can offer!!! I will say it again it’s a selfish build. as for the 15 sec cd on heavy light. yes pro’s can count to 15, and yes you don’t know on which skill it will proc. but a player has a brain right? a pro player knows thier kittening cd’s by now, So why bring this up? u are bullkittenting me, we both know that counting cd’s means kitten for a pro player. they know thier kittening class man!!

Have to stop you here because you’re trying to explain something without having any prior knowledge or experience in.

A popular build does not necessarily mean it’s the most effective… a prime example is Tage’s “burst burn” build (it wasn’t a burst burn build fyi) that every burn guard started using. It got on Metabattle by the sheer fact that he brought it in the finals.

First off, the build you say that isn’t meta is more 1v1 all-rounder rather than TPvP skirmish fights that ESL players apparently use.

Dragon’s Maw is not a requirement. Unless you don’t need Renewed Focus sustains and could go for CC/Damages instead.
Procession of Blades is not a requirement. Unless you can sacrifice a medi stunbreak/heal/cleanses for additional aoe damages.

If Maw fails to CC or deal damage, then you’re without an elite. You’d need a competent team to do what Renewed Focus is meant to do. Same goes for any other traps a DH chooses to bring in replace of a medi.

I’ll tell you one thing though, 3 or more traps wont 1v1 as efficiently as just 2 traps + Renewed Focus. And Hunter’s Fort is not needed against a Power meta so… I wouldn’t even choose it unless there’s 2 or more condi classes imo.

Thank you Saiyan… Thank you very much.

Booms.3952:

This thread made me mad

Well apparently Xanctus does not even know your former teammate. lol

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

I used to think the same but no, dragonhunters don’t have too much of everything, they are severly lacking in condi clear and sustain, all they give is might and fury with rune of the dragon hunter, they have almost no answer to cc and are weak to conditions. why do you think reapers have such an easy time with DH.

The only high end damage dealers are true, shot and procession of blades. everything else doesn’t really stand out compared to other classes unless u build up might first. nerfing true shot as said above would simply be too much. DH is fine as it is now. Also True shot is such a telegraphed attack that u really stand an fair chance of dodging it.

dragonhunter is a spec that just like berserker sacrifices sustain for pure burst. if that’s the case it should capable of dealind good dps. they already nerfed traps and their cc.

I stopped reading when I read the lack of condi clear and sustain.

Do you want me to give you builds that say otherwise?

DH is weaker compared to other specs which is very true but might please do some fact checking before you claim stuff.

oh you stopped reading? you mean that single interruptable wings of resolve, smite and perhaps if the guy is not running procession of blades another utility smite condition? that’s really nothing. DH die incredibly quickly at higher levels and proffesional levels of gameplay. infact u can already see the difficulty curve for DH spike, the moment u reach diamond for DH.

revenants, condi reapers, and even just regular reapers with thier applications of conditions can just bombard you. non top tier builds that can apply conditions also do kittentons of damage condi wise, aka condi shatter mesmer, double pistol engineer, condi berserker, and no i’m not talking about win or lose here. but to say that a dragonhunter has an a-ok condi cleanse and sustain is really lying here.

infact i can even say that the sustain is argueble due to aegis and blocks but it’s definately not a tank, it’s sustain is mediocore at best.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAsdTnsABdDhVDBWdC8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+vAUe5j+rH-TpQSABAs/QrlBAA

Do not tell me that DH have poor condition cleanses.

3 Condition Cleanses, 1 of which is on a very low Cd, 1 of which removes all conditions not to mention the ones you get from blocks (2x from f3 for 5 secs, Aegises you get, focus block) You also get 3 conditions removed on f2.

Do not tell me that this is not a viable build too, You can even go Maw if you wanted.,

Also you keep mentioning Higher levels of play, do you play in ESLs, AGs, Pro Leagues?

If not, why do you worry about these stuff?

What? U litterally took away everything what made an dragonhunter a dragonhunter and really the only thing what made it viable , and expect me not to say it’s an viable build? it’s not an viable build,

By applying this type of logic, when thief was still in a bad u can have a thief go acrobatics, shadow arts and trickery for max condi removal. and take a way lot of thier burst. and then yes then it has condi removal but then again u pretty much come with an heavily inbalanced builds just to deal with condi’s.

every spec can have tons of anti condi removal and sustain but if u go to these kinds of lengtths to the point that u practically go almost full medidation guardian(why not go full medi instead and call it a day) then yes a dh has not an suffiecient amount of condi cleanses.

and why do i talk about higher levels of play? well because i can still be a viewer and observe, have shoutcasters even add commentary and voila i can also form my own opinion on that aspect without bieng there personally. it’s really the higher levels of play that show the ins and outs of a class and build. u get suggestions such as removing berserker, marauder and viper amulets only here.

Not viable for solo q? What?

What are you even talking about?, its the same exact meta build with shelter (does not have to do anything with burst) and Judges which again is a miniscule difference (fair trade I replaced judges with a meditation)

Do you know how you sound like right now? A cherry picker. This is the same exact build meta build with 1 trait change.

Same amulet, Same runes, 1 or 2 differences with Utilities, I even mention you can go maw which is what the meta build uses. That’s like the Meta build with Shelter.

And you are telling me its not viable? Okay please tell the one who made the meta build he has no idea how to DH.

Do you even play DH or no?

PS: Do you play top tier or no?

me a cherry picker? Since when do the amount of trait changes and utilizes correspond to how viable a build is? not all skills, traits and utilities are created equal.

the hard facts are that u lack cc: your build has 1 trap utility, 2 trap utility tops when u go dragonmaw which is on a 75 sec cd btw and your spear of justice. as opposed to running 3 traps atleast. u have shelter which heals arguebly for less overall while u could have gone purifcation in which u actually blind, grant regenration and daze your enemies for the same CD. Somehting which is not hard to pull off. U lack also an knockback every 15 sec which is pretty kitten important in the current state of game, not only do you knock kitteners back u actually get another batch of stability as opposed on relying on your single 4 to 5 seconds virtue of courage.

u offer little to nothing to the team, as most of your damage is focus damage, like u bassucally made your bow a lot less effective, u offer little to no aoe damage and cc compared to the normal dh is all massivel inferior just so that u yourself can survie longer it’s a selfish build. infact u did a lot more then just tweaking a few utilities here and there.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper

the normal medi trapper easily runs 3 to 4 traps,

has on average way more cc and aoe damage as they more often then not have procession of blades something u don’t even offer as opposed to your pseudo meditation guardian which it really is. it really is a medidation guardian.

and yes i play dh.

and no i don’t play top tier, which does not discredit me from giving my opinion.

So basically you are saying, “I have problems with conditions, but I do not wanna take available options to handle them”

A change to Heavy Light to handle more conditions makes the build unviable? Heavy Light is on A 15second ICD,RNG and you have no control on what skills it will proc on (Unless you count every single time, which again you bring top tier, is that a very good strategy to count every single time when you are faced with super good opponents?), how on earth does that offer a lot for the team? By being Random?

• Even that meta link you posted had given you choices to put either Smite Condition or Contemplation to deal with conditions,

• Even with the meta link you posted said Swap Maw with RF if you need sustain

• BOTTOM LINE: If those circumstances arise and you need those 2 to slot in so that makes the build unviable because you only have 2 traps now? This is what you call cherry picking, its the same exact thing on the build link I posted so how come you only see the meta battle build? It’s THE SAME EXACT THING UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES WITH 1 TRAIT CHANGE AMULET, RUNE, TRAITS EXCEPT 1, UTILITIES EXCEPT CONTEMPLATION WITH JI ARE ALL THE SAME

BTW, a top guardians I know do not run maw, like Arken, He runs Renewed Focus, HE also runs berserker, not marauder.

So basically you are saying Arken does not know his class right and his build is not viable because he runs 2 traps?

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

I used to think the same but no, dragonhunters don’t have too much of everything, they are severly lacking in condi clear and sustain, all they give is might and fury with rune of the dragon hunter, they have almost no answer to cc and are weak to conditions. why do you think reapers have such an easy time with DH.

The only high end damage dealers are true, shot and procession of blades. everything else doesn’t really stand out compared to other classes unless u build up might first. nerfing true shot as said above would simply be too much. DH is fine as it is now. Also True shot is such a telegraphed attack that u really stand an fair chance of dodging it.

dragonhunter is a spec that just like berserker sacrifices sustain for pure burst. if that’s the case it should capable of dealind good dps. they already nerfed traps and their cc.

I stopped reading when I read the lack of condi clear and sustain.

Do you want me to give you builds that say otherwise?

DH is weaker compared to other specs which is very true but might please do some fact checking before you claim stuff.

oh you stopped reading? you mean that single interruptable wings of resolve, smite and perhaps if the guy is not running procession of blades another utility smite condition? that’s really nothing. DH die incredibly quickly at higher levels and proffesional levels of gameplay. infact u can already see the difficulty curve for DH spike, the moment u reach diamond for DH.

revenants, condi reapers, and even just regular reapers with thier applications of conditions can just bombard you. non top tier builds that can apply conditions also do kittentons of damage condi wise, aka condi shatter mesmer, double pistol engineer, condi berserker, and no i’m not talking about win or lose here. but to say that a dragonhunter has an a-ok condi cleanse and sustain is really lying here.

infact i can even say that the sustain is argueble due to aegis and blocks but it’s definately not a tank, it’s sustain is mediocore at best.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAsdTnsABdDhVDBWdC8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+vAUe5j+rH-TpQSABAs/QrlBAA

Do not tell me that DH have poor condition cleanses.

3 Condition Cleanses, 1 of which is on a very low Cd, 1 of which removes all conditions not to mention the ones you get from blocks (2x from f3 for 5 secs, Aegises you get, focus block) You also get 3 conditions removed on f2.

Do not tell me that this is not a viable build too, You can even go Maw if you wanted.,

Also you keep mentioning Higher levels of play, do you play in ESLs, AGs, Pro Leagues?

If not, why do you worry about these stuff?

What? U litterally took away everything what made an dragonhunter a dragonhunter and really the only thing what made it viable , and expect me not to say it’s an viable build? it’s not an viable build,

By applying this type of logic, when thief was still in a bad u can have a thief go acrobatics, shadow arts and trickery for max condi removal. and take a way lot of thier burst. and then yes then it has condi removal but then again u pretty much come with an heavily inbalanced builds just to deal with condi’s.

every spec can have tons of anti condi removal and sustain but if u go to these kinds of lengtths to the point that u practically go almost full medidation guardian(why not go full medi instead and call it a day) then yes a dh has not an suffiecient amount of condi cleanses.

and why do i talk about higher levels of play? well because i can still be a viewer and observe, have shoutcasters even add commentary and voila i can also form my own opinion on that aspect without bieng there personally. it’s really the higher levels of play that show the ins and outs of a class and build. u get suggestions such as removing berserker, marauder and viper amulets only here.

Not viable for solo q? What?

What are you even talking about?, its the same exact meta build with shelter (does not have to do anything with burst) and Judges which again is a miniscule difference (fair trade I replaced judges with a meditation)

Do you know how you sound like right now? A cherry picker. This is the same exact build meta build with 1 trait change.

Same amulet, Same runes, 1 or 2 differences with Utilities, I even mention you can go maw which is what the meta build uses. That’s like the Meta build with Shelter.

And you are telling me its not viable? Okay please tell the one who made the meta build he has no idea how to DH.

Do you even play DH or no?

PS: Do you play top tier or no?

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

I used to think the same but no, dragonhunters don’t have too much of everything, they are severly lacking in condi clear and sustain, all they give is might and fury with rune of the dragon hunter, they have almost no answer to cc and are weak to conditions. why do you think reapers have such an easy time with DH.

The only high end damage dealers are true, shot and procession of blades. everything else doesn’t really stand out compared to other classes unless u build up might first. nerfing true shot as said above would simply be too much. DH is fine as it is now. Also True shot is such a telegraphed attack that u really stand an fair chance of dodging it.

dragonhunter is a spec that just like berserker sacrifices sustain for pure burst. if that’s the case it should capable of dealind good dps. they already nerfed traps and their cc.

I stopped reading when I read the lack of condi clear and sustain.

Do you want me to give you builds that say otherwise?

DH is weaker compared to other specs which is very true but might please do some fact checking before you claim stuff.

oh you stopped reading? you mean that single interruptable wings of resolve, smite and perhaps if the guy is not running procession of blades another utility smite condition? that’s really nothing. DH die incredibly quickly at higher levels and proffesional levels of gameplay. infact u can already see the difficulty curve for DH spike, the moment u reach diamond for DH.

revenants, condi reapers, and even just regular reapers with thier applications of conditions can just bombard you. non top tier builds that can apply conditions also do kittentons of damage condi wise, aka condi shatter mesmer, double pistol engineer, condi berserker, and no i’m not talking about win or lose here. but to say that a dragonhunter has an a-ok condi cleanse and sustain is really lying here.

infact i can even say that the sustain is argueble due to aegis and blocks but it’s definately not a tank, it’s sustain is mediocore at best.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAsdTnsABdDhVDBWdC8DhlEi6aZDgEIL/+vAUe5j+rH-TpQSABAs/QrlBAA

Do not tell me that DH have poor condition cleanses.

3 Condition Cleanses, 1 of which is on a very low Cd, 1 of which removes all conditions not to mention the ones you get from blocks (2x from f3 for 5 secs, Aegises you get, focus block) You also get 3 conditions removed on f2.

Do not tell me that this is not a viable build too, You can even go Maw if you wanted.,

Also you keep mentioning Higher levels of play, do you play in ESLs, AGs, Pro Leagues?

If not, why do you worry about these stuff?

ProtoMarcus.7649:

• Quick Shot
  woops yeah I meant superspeed not quickness

• Poison Volley
  As the skill itself pierces, it already affects downed enemies, it acts a BIT as a AoE skill, only in a cone. A lingering poison field could be interesting though. But I DO MISS MY ‘SPREAD SHOT’ THAT WAS ANNOUNCED PRE-RELEASE
  Imagine 5 piercing, 100% projectile finisher shots… On downed enemies… Omnomnom

• Concussion Shot
  The 2 stacks is meant to be low – It adds some damage component over time, but I believe this skill is really focused on interrupting more than damaging

Wow Spreadshot looked awesome, but hey Poison Volley is the same thing right? They even added poison.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

MidoriMarch.8067:

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

StickerHappy.8052:

To all the naysayers, It can:

Competitive Team match right here.

http://imgur.com/PBIQres

It does a lot more than focus:

why do people like focus? Invuln. Thats it.

More healing for team support. Water 4 and 5
Reflects check? CC check. Air 4 and Water 4.
Boon sharing? Check.
Conditions? Check. Lots of bleeds and burns plus those blinds.
Water fields? Check.

Whatever focus can do, warhorn can too.

Fire field = Fire 5
CC =Water 4 and Air 4
Aura = the loss of fire aura from Focus get replaced by magnetic aura on WH, still fair trade.
Blast finisher = Earth 4, lacks 1 from Focus Earth 4

So bottom line:

Focus only steps up ahead with 1 extra blast finisher, 1 condition clear and 1 Invuln. Pro players use it, that’s why everyone flocks to it
Warhorn offers more for the team like AoE healing, Water fields, AoE burns and bleeds and blinds.

One glaring problem of warhorn is the clunkiness is of the skills, and yes Warhorn could use some rework.

You’re comparing wrong things.

You want more offense? You play dagger.
You want more defesne? You play focus.
You want more support? You play staff.

Warhorn is clunky, its boonsharing sucks and the damage from it is not all that great. No one plays it simply because it’s inferior to other offhands.

Winning a game with warhorn doesn’t mean anything and it definitely not proves it’s better than other options ele has.

Wow this guy. Cherry picking much?

When did I say winning a game with WH meant something?

Did you even glance at the stats?
I can post more games like this with WH.

You want more offense? Go play dagger?

• What are you smoking? I dealt almost 1m damage this match with an offhand that is subpar then you tell me play dagger? okay show me a match where you deal 1.5m damage with D/D. please enlighten me. Not solo q matches, 5v5 Matches.

Noone plays it because a lot of people suck playing any class.

Again before you cherry pick my post again, I did say WH do need tweaks and yes its clunky but I am doing VERY WELL WITH IT.

If you still refute my point on my play style maybe because I am just a better player than you?

Here are more screenies, and these are all team matches.

https://i.imgur.com/IRmLb4T.jpg

• Please do tell me if your staff can heal your allies for 700k. and do 800k damage at the same time

https://imgur.com/pfpewqT

• Stronghold match yes it irrelavant but hey “It’s that very clunky OH that I was using”

https://imgur.com/YdV15dQ

• 750k damage and 500k healing

https://imgur.com/cFOuIQe

• 5v5 match, just didn’t screenie the details, but my team and the other team was composed of forum people (kdaddy was on the other team) So if you wanna know if this is a legit match go ask them

So do you want more proof? I can post more.

Please come back at me if your FA burst ele can do 1m damage in competitive 5v5 Match and do 400k healing at the same time. Please.

“Damage from Warhorn is not that great”- Laraley

okay….

Are u serious? Lol

go try vs d/f ele with d/warhorn u will get ur kitten rekt like a joke

focus > wh everysingle way in pvp/wvw

Oh trust me, I fought a lot of good eles.. oh and since when was the post about Can warhorn win against X classes? Stay on topic.

Oh we all know WH is subpar comparing it to other offhands, no one is denying that, The OP asked “CAN WARHORN WORK IN PVP” and the answer is YES

These are 5v5 matches, with screens and you are still denying the fact it can’t work? Lol.
Cmon show me some screens that you deal damage as much as you heal your allies. Please.

Again, this is not solo q. I play support Earth/Water/Tempest yet i do significant amount of damage while healing my allies for a lot.

Again, show me some screens of your D/F ele kittening some people while being to support your team at the same time.

• PS: I can post a lot more screens and you ele mains here can come up with thousands of reasons why It can’t work in PvP, but I guess a lot of forum posters in general are bad in game.

That a d/f beats a d/w at equal skill level can’t be true, the first simply doesn’t offer the same level of pressure respect to the second where it can still count of good self-sustain+better pressure; the invincibility on focus is great, we all know that but the focus is just too defensive and I prefer to do more pressure. The two sets offers different playstyles and when it comes down to 1vs1, it all depends on the player skill..you can even 1vs1 with staff if the skill level allows it

One thing to remember is that focus was favoured last season because we had celestial and could somehow hold 2 , this season though, the quicker you beat an opponent…the better for you, even if you equip a focus , you won’t be able to hold 2..o better go with warhorn and have more pressure with somewhat good self-sustain still

What pressure?

Since when did d/wh provide so much pressure? d/d works more efficient if u want more pressure offensive plays and seems like u are forgetting all those CC’S and projectile reflects along with invul on focus which means u can play defensive and offensive at the same time. Equally D/WH beats D/F ? LOL!
and none of idiots just stay there and get hit by those super short range slow warhorn skills

DISCLAIMER: Again, not saying that WH is the best OH only saying it can work in pvp (WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT THE TOPIC IS)

A lot of the ele mains and “mains” here keep saying that warhorn can’t work or is awful in pvp, but a lot of you do not even post screens or videos that support their claims.

And please do not even mention top tier, If you do not play top tier (90% of the pvp community) please do not use that argument.

@MidoriMarch

You do realize that one game mode in pvp is about node defending and capturing, so yes, any “idiot” will be forced to stay on the node and fight unless you wanna give free points to the opposing team, you will eventually have to eat some of those AoEs if you are contesting a point.

Buran.3796:

AivenPrimus.9184:

1. First, … DH, is the only Elite spec, that has a clear, base buff on their Class Mechanic Skill,
   -F1, Unblockable, Piercing Instant cast Chain with Less CDR, more dmg, more utility.
   -F2, Leap with Less CDR, double heal.
   -F3, 5s long, AoE Block
   Combine this with Renewed Focus.

For you this seems like ’’meh’’, but considering that every single DH uses exactly the same Meditrapper build with Renewed Focus skill.
(I dont even see any reason why Anet ever decided to give a buff to DH mechanic skills)

1) Every DH virtue has cast time and can be interruped -whereas Guardian’s virtues were instant-.

2) F2 doesn’t double heal; the base regeneration is fairly weak and you lose it activating the virtue. This skill is more important in terms of mobility than due the heal, must ad.

3) F3 block is weak; at best you have a 5 second projectile block each ~65 seconds. To put this in perspective: untraited Wall of Reflection provides 10 seconds each 40 seconds and Revenant’s hammer #4 gives you a 6 second projectile block each 12.

4) Both Guardians and Demon Hunter specialization remains usless in high level PvP matches since the Heart of Thorns three months and half ago. Despite this, the traps got nerfed in cc and arguably the class will remain not-viable in the Pro League season 2 (which grants at least another three months of uselesness until the next patch, expected after the end of the regular PvP League season 2.

5) Guardian players using more than 1-2 traps are arguably terribad; other players recurrently dying against Dragon Hunters stacking traps are arguably worse than terribad. This is not a “learn to play problem” due players which insist in eating one time and other and other the same terribad trappers are clearly unable to learn, so the best they can do -for the heatlh of their own team mates and the PvP comunity is just ragequit and uninstall.

In PvP core Guardians already had a good spot in the game since the beguining due thir role as holders/supporterss, a very boring task but at least they did that honorably. HoT introduced bunkers that did the bunker and support part better than Guardians (Mesmers, Druids) and bruisers capable to tank and destroy Guardians/DH in 1 vs 1 ( Revenants, Scrappers).

Not a single complaint about DH in the last four montths in is this forum was proved truthful in competitive gameplay, so please stop being that bad at playing.

IIRC F3 blocks everything, not just projectiles. Could be wrong tho. F3 could be even used for safe stomping.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

I used to think the same but no, dragonhunters don’t have too much of everything, they are severly lacking in condi clear and sustain, all they give is might and fury with rune of the dragon hunter, they have almost no answer to cc and are weak to conditions. why do you think reapers have such an easy time with DH.

The only high end damage dealers are true, shot and procession of blades. everything else doesn’t really stand out compared to other classes unless u build up might first. nerfing true shot as said above would simply be too much. DH is fine as it is now. Also True shot is such a telegraphed attack that u really stand an fair chance of dodging it.

dragonhunter is a spec that just like berserker sacrifices sustain for pure burst. if that’s the case it should capable of dealind good dps. they already nerfed traps and their cc.

I stopped reading when I read the lack of condi clear and sustain.

Do you want me to give you builds that say otherwise?

DH is weaker compared to other specs which is very true but might please do some fact checking before you claim stuff.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

I love the shortbow’s positionning concept – I want retreating enemies to be punished more severely, but I also want the shortbow to pack some punch during normal combat. that said, here’s a copy-paste of past suggestions I made:

Crossfire

• Base 2s bleed per hit
• If hit from back/side, 4s bleed instead
• 10% more base damage
  Current bleed is 3s but only applied when hit from behind. 2s core and 4s back is a good compromise

Poison Volley

• 5% more base damage
• Apply Weakness if hit from back/side – not much for the outgoing target damage reduction, more about the slower endurance regen.
• 1s longer base poison duration
  Or perhaps, as others have suggested, make all 5 arrows 100% projectile finishers. I remember back in the day when they were publishing weapon skills on the blog (before release), the shortbow had a 7 arrow, 100% projectile finisher skill that devolved into Poison volley

Quick Shot

• 10% more base damage
• 6s swiftness base instead of 3s – 3s base is a joke
• 3s Quickness if hit when retreating – would become a great escaping weapon skill

Crippling Shot

• 10% more base damage
• 4s base crippled duration (up from 3s)
• 2 stacks of Torment 5s if hit from the back/side – becomes more punishing towards escaping foes, as it first reduces their escaping distance, but it also punishes them for moving.

Concussion Shot

• 10% more base damage
• 2 Confusion 4s – a small damaging condition somewhat related to concussions.
• Up the stun and daze base duration to 1.5s as Moment of Clarity got nerfed

I really want the shortbow to be like a stalking weapon, and a better skirmishing weapon. I want it to punish escaping targets, and it needs a bit more punch.

• Poison Volley

I think its better to be a poison field, 3/5 skills on shortbow are already 100% projectile finishers/ I think a field will be better for downed bodies AND you get to combo SB with it.

• Quick shot

You meant 3s of Superspeed when flanking? Because quickness won’t help you retreat

• Concussion Shot

2 stacks is super low, on a 25 second Cd, I suggested it 3 stacks base then make it 5 when you hit an enemy from behind.

Wondrouswall.7169:

StickerHappy.8052:

Don’t you think Crossfire needs a but more than 0.6 coefficient?

Nah. The coefficient increase is, more-or-less, compensation for the firing-speed “fix” from long ago. Crossfire, on a whole, is all right in terms of SB and its unique flanking criteria.

What about the range? haha. It will be soo good if it was 1200 again.

Varezenem.2813:

StickerHappy.8052:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Overall, suggestions are going in the right direction adding more flanking bonuses. Strip it down a bit, though. Multiple flanking bonuses are unnecessary and slow doesn’t fit the core Ranger, or shortbow.

• Crossfire – Remains the same.
• Poison Volley – Apply 1s of Weakness per arrow when flanking.
• Quick Shot – Gain swiftness if the arrow misses. Gain super speed if the arrow hits.
• Crippling Shot – Immobilize for 2s when flanking.
• Concussion Shot – 3 stacks of Confusion for 5s if foe is interrupted.

Would probably bump the scaling for all skills from 0.4 (0.5 on Poison Volley) to 0.6 and reduce Concussion Shot’s cooldown to 20s so it can be accessed a bit more frequently.

Yea I think i went overboard with the flanking bonuses.

Don’t you think Crossfire needs a but more than 0.6 coefficient?

Also, one thing that I would LOVE for shortbow is make Poison Volley a poison field.

All most certainly not LRS has a DPS mod .798 (with weapon strength) a .5 Short bow (lol it turned to kitten) would be .92~ (15% + ) on .6 it’s 1.11(40% + ). Sword is 1.22.

What is LRS?

Anymore opinions guys?

MidoriMarch.8067:

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

StickerHappy.8052:

To all the naysayers, It can:

Competitive Team match right here.

http://imgur.com/PBIQres

It does a lot more than focus:

why do people like focus? Invuln. Thats it.

More healing for team support. Water 4 and 5
Reflects check? CC check. Air 4 and Water 4.
Boon sharing? Check.
Conditions? Check. Lots of bleeds and burns plus those blinds.
Water fields? Check.

Whatever focus can do, warhorn can too.

Fire field = Fire 5
CC =Water 4 and Air 4
Aura = the loss of fire aura from Focus get replaced by magnetic aura on WH, still fair trade.
Blast finisher = Earth 4, lacks 1 from Focus Earth 4

So bottom line:

Focus only steps up ahead with 1 extra blast finisher, 1 condition clear and 1 Invuln. Pro players use it, that’s why everyone flocks to it
Warhorn offers more for the team like AoE healing, Water fields, AoE burns and bleeds and blinds.

One glaring problem of warhorn is the clunkiness is of the skills, and yes Warhorn could use some rework.

You’re comparing wrong things.

You want more offense? You play dagger.
You want more defesne? You play focus.
You want more support? You play staff.

Warhorn is clunky, its boonsharing sucks and the damage from it is not all that great. No one plays it simply because it’s inferior to other offhands.

Winning a game with warhorn doesn’t mean anything and it definitely not proves it’s better than other options ele has.

Wow this guy. Cherry picking much?

When did I say winning a game with WH meant something?

Did you even glance at the stats?
I can post more games like this with WH.

You want more offense? Go play dagger?

• What are you smoking? I dealt almost 1m damage this match with an offhand that is subpar then you tell me play dagger? okay show me a match where you deal 1.5m damage with D/D. please enlighten me. Not solo q matches, 5v5 Matches.

Noone plays it because a lot of people suck playing any class.

Again before you cherry pick my post again, I did say WH do need tweaks and yes its clunky but I am doing VERY WELL WITH IT.

If you still refute my point on my play style maybe because I am just a better player than you?

Here are more screenies, and these are all team matches.

https://i.imgur.com/IRmLb4T.jpg

• Please do tell me if your staff can heal your allies for 700k. and do 800k damage at the same time

https://imgur.com/pfpewqT

• Stronghold match yes it irrelavant but hey “It’s that very clunky OH that I was using”

https://imgur.com/YdV15dQ

• 750k damage and 500k healing

https://imgur.com/cFOuIQe

• 5v5 match, just didn’t screenie the details, but my team and the other team was composed of forum people (kdaddy was on the other team) So if you wanna know if this is a legit match go ask them

So do you want more proof? I can post more.

Please come back at me if your FA burst ele can do 1m damage in competitive 5v5 Match and do 400k healing at the same time. Please.

“Damage from Warhorn is not that great”- Laraley

okay….

Are u serious? Lol

go try vs d/f ele with d/warhorn u will get ur kitten rekt like a joke

focus > wh everysingle way in pvp/wvw

Oh trust me, I fought a lot of good eles.. oh and since when was the post about Can warhorn win against X classes? Stay on topic.

Oh we all know WH is subpar comparing it to other offhands, no one is denying that, The OP asked “CAN WARHORN WORK IN PVP” and the answer is YES

These are 5v5 matches, with screens and you are still denying the fact it can’t work? Lol.
Cmon show me some screens that you deal damage as much as you heal your allies. Please.

Again, this is not solo q. I play support Earth/Water/Tempest yet i do significant amount of damage while healing my allies for a lot.

Again, show me some screens of your D/F ele kittening some people while being to support your team at the same time.

• PS: I can post a lot more screens and you ele mains here can come up with thousands of reasons why It can’t work in PvP, but I guess a lot of forum posters in general are bad in game.

Where you at Laraley?

Wondrouswall.7169:

Overall, suggestions are going in the right direction adding more flanking bonuses. Strip it down a bit, though. Multiple flanking bonuses are unnecessary and slow doesn’t fit the core Ranger, or shortbow.

• Crossfire – Remains the same.
• Poison Volley – Apply 1s of Weakness per arrow when flanking.
• Quick Shot – Gain swiftness if the arrow misses. Gain super speed if the arrow hits.
• Crippling Shot – Immobilize for 2s when flanking.
• Concussion Shot – 3 stacks of Confusion for 5s if foe is interrupted.

Would probably bump the scaling for all skills from 0.4 (0.5 on Poison Volley) to 0.6 and reduce Concussion Shot’s cooldown to 20s so it can be accessed a bit more frequently.

Yea I think i went overboard with the flanking bonuses.

Don’t you think Crossfire needs a but more than 0.6 coefficient?

Also, one thing that I would LOVE for shortbow is make Poison Volley a poison field.