Guild Wars 2

Crinn.7864:

This is literally (and I do mean literally) the worse experience I’ve ever had with matching making since frigging swtor. (which didn’t even have matchmaking)

That thing is they even reset MMR completely…

You carry a game and lose because of reasons and you lose -30 getting 4 top stats in different categories (I dont know if top stats matter now, but this shows you I did almost everything)

You win a game as the same quality as the 1st one, and you gain +17?

How does this work?

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217:

StickerHappy.8052:

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217:

tfw everybody assumes they’re MLG material and don’t focus on improving themselves

LOL. You can be the best player in the game but THIS IS A TEAM GAME. How bout I give you 4 noob teammates and you being the best player in the game, can you win a 5v5 vs a better team?

Wanna bet gold on it?

can only control yourself bro.

secondly, bragging about champ titles in signature, super worried.

Lol. thats your argument?

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217:

tfw everybody assumes they’re MLG material and don’t focus on improving themselves

LOL. You can be the best player in the game but THIS IS A TEAM GAME. How bout I give you 4 noob teammates and you being the best player in the game, can you win a 5v5 vs a better team?

Wanna bet gold on it?

JTGuevara.9018:

I like it!

Skill Rating: 1068 (Silver T1)
W/L: 21-15
Power Warrior(GS/Mace + Sh)

I concur on placement games, they ARE weird. I went 5-5, so I assumed I would be placed in silver or gold. Nope. BRONZE. I started at bronze t3 with a 950 rating. As you said OP, the rating advancement made me raise an eyebrow. However, if I’m correct, those that played well in placement and started higher generally are falling and those that played not-so-well and started lower generally are rising. Maybe they had a bad day at work, frustrated, tired or something and wound up losing most of their games. This is consistent with the way mmr works. An example: 10,9,8,7,6 vs 10,9,8,7,6

Now that you can actually DROP, those that got stuck in bronze, for example will get better players matched up with them.

Overall, though, this system is fair. I hated the previous system.

What was your initial MMR? I think this has something to do with it. I went for 5-5 too, But I did have a 267 Initial MMR (I think this is on the higher end pre patch, since a lot of ESL players I know are on this bracket or even higher) and I landed at Silver T3. Hiro (Talgo) who had initial 240 something or 220 MMR did 7-3 on his placement matches and he is in Gold.

To be fair, my placement matches are absolutely horrendous.

BlackBeard.2873:

Yeap, this happened to me.

I was too excited to try out the new fresh air ele….just in case you were wondering….its really bad.

Now I am stuck in an MMR where people just suicide in 2s at mid and my team-mates have no idea how to play. Its impossible to dig out from here b/c MMR doesn’t change much with matches, even on long win or loss streaks.

The placement matches were BS, I had matches that the teammates are absolutely horrible. 4v5s, AFKs, and this was used to land at your division? Lol.

I hate to say it but they do. I did 5-5 yesterday with an initial MMR of 267 and I placed at t3 silver. Hiro (Talgo) who had 221 or 241 something went 7-3 on the placements and landed at gold.

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

I don’t think you get the point.. What’s the way to get a well fed hero? To farm and kill your opponents right? Which also means you have to be superior to them in mechanics and rotational/map awareness.

The same goes for gw2, if you are actively outplaying your opponents by killing them and rotating appropriately then you will literally ‘carry’ your team to victory.

I do get your point but your two examples are very different. Killing a higher lvled hero than you also nets you more gold and experience. Very different mechanics. Here in gw2 there is so much variables to consider. Team comp? <—- very minimal control over this if your teammates decides to switch. Class Stacking? <——- Dota does not have this either. Picks and Bans? <———- Gw2 does not have this either.

You cannot carry a game in gw2. Even if all the enemies are noobs and 4 of your teammates are also noobs, all they have to do is keep 2 points. Thats it. What if you a semi-poor mobility class? What would you do then? You can kill 2 of em, but guess what they can just outrotate you.

You’re straying from the point now. Generally, the specific mechanics of the game do not matter. What matters is that to win you have to be 1. Mechanically superior to your opponent 2. Have a better map/rotational awareness than your opponent. Rate of experience/gold gain etc is irrelevant.

You can control team comp. First of all, it’s unlikely that your team mate decides to switch from whatever he’s playing at match start. So you can switch to whatever fits your team best. Even if he does switch mid-game, you can still switch to something more fitting as well. Secondly, you can always ask them to switch. Nicely. These points also address the problem of class stacking. Picks and bans are just a subset of team composition.

And.. I have no idea what you’re on about. If you keep two points you win. If you have a poor mobility class, you help your team win points and keep them. Like you said, they are worse than you so they shouldn’t be able to outrotate you.

You can’t control team comp. You just can’t. Some people dont even multi class. You are saying stuff that happens in perfect situations. Some people don’t even wanna switch, worse, some people wont even chat back. These stuff happens all the time.

Mechanics matter. Gw2 requires everyone to do good. Dota2 not so much, as long as your teammates do not feed early game its all good, Two different situations, MOBAs have Late-game, Early game heroes, Does gw2 have that? No.

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

I don’t think you get the point.. What’s the way to get a well fed hero? To farm and kill your opponents right? Which also means you have to be superior to them in mechanics and rotational/map awareness.

The same goes for gw2, if you are actively outplaying your opponents by killing them and rotating appropriately then you will literally ‘carry’ your team to victory.

I do get your point but your two examples are very different. Killing a higher lvled hero than you also nets you more gold and experience. Very different mechanics. Here in gw2 there is so much variables to consider. Team comp? <—- very minimal control over this if your teammates decides to switch. Class Stacking? <——- Dota does not have this either. Picks and Bans? <———- Gw2 does not have this either.

You cannot carry a game in gw2. Even if all the enemies are noobs and 4 of your teammates are also noobs, all they have to do is keep 2 points. Thats it. What if you a semi-poor mobility class? What would you do then? You can kill 2 of em, but guess what they can just outrotate you.

Crinn.7864:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

The only common denominator between all your matches is you. Over a large number of games your rating will approach your skill level, even with pugs.

Unless the Illuminanti is conspiring to ruin your rating. Then yeah you’re probably stuck forever.

I am not stuck tho, thats a thing. I am just refuting the OPs point, the way it sounds to me is that let’s just blame the player for being bad. I have had many instances that the teammates are just absolutely horrid.

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Exciton.8942:

This is not a flaw.

Placement matches MM are more random because you only have an average MMR, probably with a high volatility as well.

After 10 games, you should be closer to where your skill level belongs to. But don’t expect it to be super accurate. You will need to keep playing to settle to where you belong.

Yeap. So no matter what you get in placement matches it doesn’t matter. That I know now.

Average MMR? did someone get a 700+ MMR for placement matches?

BrotherBelial.3094:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

BrotherBelial.3094:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

BrotherBelial.3094:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

BrotherBelial.3094:

StickerHappy.8052:

I have no idea what the initial MMR meant before placement matches.

But If I could make a guess, this will be a determinant to your placement matches. Meaning, I could be matched with similar players of the same MMR on those placement matches.

So I have a 267 on Initial, Arken a 264, Helseth 294, Lycarak 390.

So meaning, If I played yesterday at the start of the season, I should be matched up with Arken and co. yesterday.

But I didn’t coz I have to work.

Now I tried doing the placement matches:

“IT IS THE MOST ANNOYING EXPERIENCE EVER”

We lost a 4v5, (we have 5 fyi)
People triple capping a point, Dying in 2 seconds in teamfights etc.

So..Was it really that bad that I didn’t play yesterday?

No it was this bad yesterday. people want to win pips. they don’t care if they win or lose because they still get pips.

With that said, the MM is the kittening worst ever.

Wait for the Mmrs to settle since everyone was brought to the 1200 baseline it literally started yesterday..

If I have to wait, then what was the point in the placement matches? So I played 10 games for make-believe? The MM is a joke, out of 20 matches I’ve won 6! The skill gap in teams is laughable, and I have to laugh because if I don’t it would be worthy of crying over.

The whole point of the placement matches was to stop blow out’s but all it’s done it make them so, you win easy or you get hammered. losing 14 games on the bounce is not fun at kittening all.

You do realize there was a huge influx of PvE players that probably had the average Mmr because they heard easy Ascended rewards. And with everyone still going through placement matches the Mmr doesn’t magically settle instantly because not everyone played yesterday so there is that it takes a few days after a mass Mmr reset..

So what your saying is the placement matches are pointless. Gotcha.

Apparently you don’t understand how simple Mmr systems work you got a rough placement gen after that you either increase or decrease right now the soft reset bunched everyone’s Mmr close together, the more you play and the further into the season the more accurate your mmr will be, the placement matches gave a rough baseline for you to individually start out at. They serve a purpose. The game has very little data to begin the season with, it would be no different than if they reset everyone down to the same starting Mmr and didn’t have placement matches.

So like I said, the placement matches are pointless. It seems you don’t understand that there is no point to them, your explanation says they are pointless as the result is the same as if everyone started on square 1.

They are pointless. It is a fact now. From what I understand from the people commenting here, “Placement matches are there to help you place where you are rightfully to be” So in itself, How does a system dictate that? So if your teammates are intentionally whack so it is your fault right? – This is what I understood from what the people are saying.

My friend recently told me that YourFriendMarvin from PZ also had horrible placement matches. So what does that tell you?

ReaperJr.5967:

I dont get why everyone is complaining about placement matches. If you realise, placement matches are used in every competitive pvp game and they work well especially when we have solo queue.

Placement matches are for better players to skip the lower ‘ELO hell’ (Glicko in this case), and if you didn’t manage to do that, it just means you’re not as good as you thought you were.

Literally, like in dota 2 or HotS, they have solo q placement matches and you notice one trend: the good players always manage to get a better rating at the end of placement matches. This is how smurf accounts are born. They don’t have control over their team mates either, and they are also playing a team game. Go figure.

Uhmm so what you mean to say Marvin also is a bad player because he didn’t do good on placement matches right?

Oldyoung.6109:

initial mmr seems to be based on your previous ranked mmr if you didn’t have you start at 1200 i don’t know how placement score is calculated.

Yea this was what I was guessing. So if I played yesterday, I would be matched with people with the same previous ranked MMR for placement matches?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

They brought everyone from all sides of the spectrum to close to the 1200 baseline for the placement matches from there your placement matches determine your starting Mmr. So you had all skill levels playing against each other.

So they say The placement matches will place you on your appropriate MMR? How does the system decide on that if all the matches and teammates you have are utter trash..? So if we lose the game is that on me?

I have no idea what the initial MMR meant before placement matches.

But If I could make a guess, this will be a determinant to your placement matches. Meaning, I could be matched with similar players of the same MMR on those placement matches.

So I have a 267 on Initial, Arken a 264, Helseth 294, Lycarak 390.

So meaning, If I played yesterday at the start of the season, I should be matched up with Arken and co. yesterday.

But I didn’t coz I have to work.

Now I tried doing the placement matches:

“IT IS THE MOST ANNOYING EXPERIENCE EVER”

We lost a 4v5, (we have 5 fyi)
People triple capping a point, Dying in 2 seconds in teamfights etc.

So..Was it really that bad that I didn’t play yesterday?

Lily.1935:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• New PvP Amulet: Deadshot Amulet: 1050 Precision, 1050 Condition Damage, 560 Vitality, 560 Expertise
  • This amulet should be a viable choice for lower-HP precision proc-based condition classes, such as condition engineer and condition ranger. It provides strong offense, with some defense through vitality.

Lower-HP precision proc-based condition classes? DUDE! Give this stat combo for my necromancer. So much want in PvE. I’m tired of having power. Please Gaile. I’ll love you forever! <3.

I would not even add necromance to the “Lower HP” classes.

Mak.2657:

Seems there is no bug (active part of confusion damage triggers only 1 time on UA). I did comment on my tests here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Condi-Mesmer-needs-to-be-toned-down/6414088

It can still be a different case, sometimes it bugs out and sometimes it doesn’t maybe?

EDIT: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault

The wiki even states its a bug so…..

Azukas.1426:

Aylpse.6280:

Azukas.1426:

Why are attacking so much with confusion on you? Literally not the,smartest thing to do

“I know not to hit UA and spam my attacks when I got multiple stacks of confusion” -t. Azukas

Fixed that for you.

You guys are missing the point, I think UA procs X times more confusion damage like old ele evade abilities. It’s not about when or when not to attack. I refuse to believe that a single attack could kill you due to Confusion procs at full health unless you have 25 or more stacks of confusion and vuln (how often does this happen in pvp again?)

This is hard to use even for a pug. You have literally 0 Reliable condition cleanse. You can’t use your heal for just a condition cleanse. 28 seconds CD without a heal is a lifetime.

SoD is easily interruptible, high CD too. And these are all just gonna remove a condition.

You could just use my thread for all the other changes like traits…you know…

Very Easy. Duel a lot of em. I spent the majority of my pvp life dueling hundreds of mesmers.

I will tell you this is the best thing you can do.

Kuya.6495:

EthanLightheart.9168:

Kuya.6495:

Usually when i lose several matches in a row, i just sit down and eat a snickers instead of making a thread about it.

Instead of acting babylike you could as well bring up valid arguments why you don’t agree.

I wanted to avoid making you look silly but if you insist:

Assuming that metabattle even encompasses all viable builds that can be played in pvp right now (a kittenumption), these are the following high scoring builds (high scoring being anything gold rated or higher) on that site:

elementalist: 1
engineer: 2
guardian: 2
mesmer: 1
ranger: 2
revenant: 1
necromancer: 3
thief: 2
warrior: 2

If we lower our standards to silver level, the build variety rises even higher. Now, the question you need to ask yourself is: what arbitrary number of viable builds are you demanding must exist to quell the pointless hunger that dwells inside you?

http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

edit: really? they filter the word bA-D on these forums?

You think this is okay? When some of the builds you mentioned are basically using the SAME traits and traitlines with just an amulet or weapon change?

Ex: Shoutbow Vs Bunker Druid. BOTH WITH NATURE MAGIC AND BEASTMASTERY AND DRUID

Guardian – both builds have valor and DH

Engineer – Every build has alchemy or Scrapper

Warrior – 3/4 Builds have Defense and Discipline and Berserker

Thief – All the metabuilds have Deadly Arts And Trickery

This only shows how naive you all people are. Can’t you see prevalent traitlines are present in every build because they are too powerful? Every build we have right now is most often just a rehash of the meta build with 1 – 3 changes.

Skai.8473:

https://youtu.be/Wb6g-Tv5Ttc this video was to let arena net see how was the heal OP and pet dmg OP as well how poor thief is i am looking to see thief buffed soon

Uses Sic Em in duels, says how poor thief is… Okay…

Grenix.3762:

I’m finding that I’m not sure how to properly prepare for AOE encounters. Is there a particular pet / weapon that I should be using? I’m a ‘power’ druid. What are folks doing about this?

Drake is a good alternative. 3/4 of its attacks are all AoE. I think its the only pet the cleaves on its AA.

DrDivine.5378:

Ok so my idea is most likely broken and a lot of combos with traits and such would need to be balanced, but heres my basic idea:

With how OP the elite specs are compared to vanilla, pvp exclusive but make the new weapon or mechanic baseline. If they aren’t going to balance elite with vanilla, make elite THE vanilla (but only the new weapon and mechanic such as berserk mode) so people can freely choose traitlines. I don’t think we should have to do that, but a year in and vanilla still isn’t getting used on any classes so might as well make the advancement lol

May work BUT here is the problem, Anet Can’t even Fix/Tweak the new weapons. Ele WH has been crap since HoT. Same As necro GS.

coro.3176:

They should have a few balance patches at the end of each season – one every few weeks. Test things and see if they are working as intended. Respond to feedback, etc.

THIS. easy number changes should be readily available in a week or 1 month tops.

Skill/Trait Reworks around 2-3 months. 3 months if it is a lot.

Silv.9207:

If you use the Signet Meta Build you’re only gonna be kicked hard, nothing more.
There’s seriously someone that still use it in common sPvP? O.o
The corruptionmancer is way better for casual pvp and the “Skittledness Build” is a viable variation of it.
I played with a really similar build for months… There’s seriously nothing new in what he’s proposing…

But if someone never tried that build, for shure it’s better than the signet build, simply why the signet is a high level team based build, that will never work in a casual pvp match.
That’s a good build, for shure, but isn’t the revelation of the year, only an old build that a lot of necros already use from months.

Also, Signet of Suffering Trait is better than Spiteful Spirit why affect Plague Signet in both active and passive version, making them more useful and corrupt boons.

I am confused on the part you say high level team based build.. You do know who Jeff is right?

RlyOsim.2497:

Question for the community:

3 months are ok the amount of changes these balance patches contain?

To answer you frankly, All the changes in the quarterly patches can be done in 1-2 months tops.

Waiting for 3-4 months for basic changes (there is not even a lot of trait/skills changes/reworks) is utter…………

Razor.9872:

This raises questions:

So, if anti-class stacking were to be implemented (i.e. a given team can only have 1 of each profession[elite spec considered]), how would you picture that mechanically being done?

Like, for example, would there be a pre-match selection where everyone chooses what character they want, and if someone chooses a character that is a Dragonhunter, then all the characters that are Dragonhunter grey-out for everyone else?

What would happen if someone only had 1-4 characters, and all their professions were chosen before they could make a choice? Would the system auto-give them a temp-character with a template build?

Would this make it so people are forced to play on professions they are not comfortable with?

I mean, the premise of no class stacking is nice, but implementing that mechanically is another story.

It could work BUT implementing any class stacking mechanic will increase que times.

This community whines a lot for even an additional minute so I do not see it happening unless pvp suddenly gets a large influx of people.

Curunen.8729:

Yeah I totally agree here.

For example look at Inspiration – I thought thematically it is supposed to be about supporting others, however instead it is a selfish sustain line.

There is absolutely no reason why all that condi cleanse should be loaded into that line when it would also make sense in other lines. Especially when playing without it means you have barely any cleanse.

I believe lines should be thematic and offer different flavours to combat – ie they should lean to a certain strength (ie damage, control, support, etc…) however should also have minor option to shore up their weaknesses – but less than a dedicated line. For example Domination should “major” in control, secondary with damage and include minor options for sustain that is rewarded on successful application of the major mechanics (control) – for example transfer condition on interrupt or heal for each boon removed from an enemy (just throwing random ideas out).

Damage is easy to come by now which is why things like Domination hardly make a difference to your build, but condition removal and healing/sustain is gold dust and mandatory. Deviating from Inspiration/Chrono/x is shooting yourself in the foot, similar to the trait lines of other classes that are way more efficient than other trait lines.

Exactly, A lot of people should know about this already but Inspiration is too good to pass up. Mesmers do not have good condition removal outside of it because Portal/X is too good to pass up to slot in Mantra Cleanse.

In short: Shattered Conditions is waaaayy better than Nullfield because it takes too long to get rid of the conditions, Mantra Cleanse because you have to charge it.

choovanski.5462:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

ideally the new elite specialisations will be different from what we have currently.

however i honestly don’t mind having one trait line focused on condion clense, & another on damage. i don’t mind these supposed “must picks” either. taking discipline on warrior never bothered me.

Thats where the problem lies, as an avid theorycrafter myself, some trait combinations will not work without the required lines. (top tier pvp, tourneys) anything can work in solo q.

I think giving us more options through better weapon sets or utilities, like condition cleanse (like the ele 3 condition removal), will pave the way making these traitlines not as much required.

why shouldn’t the condi cleanse mainly be in one or two trait lines?
if it has to be in them all the traitlines stop having diversity.

have a damage line, have a defense line, have specialisation, have trade offs.

I do agree about the trade offs, its the same with other traitlines. But that is not the case, you choose a traitline now because it has lesser tradeoffs or none at all. OR it could do the same things as other traitlines or even better. Thats where the problem is.

EX: Empathic Bond vs Druidic Clarity?

choovanski.5462:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

ideally the new elite specialisations will be different from what we have currently.

however i honestly don’t mind having one trait line focused on condion clense, & another on damage. i don’t mind these supposed “must picks” either. taking discipline on warrior never bothered me.

Thats where the problem lies, as an avid theorycrafter myself, some trait combinations will not work without the required lines. (top tier pvp, tourneys) anything can work in solo q.

I think giving us more options through better weapon sets or utilities, like condition cleanse (like the ele 3 condition removal), will pave the way making these traitlines not as much required.

choovanski.5462:

ideally the next set of elite specialisations will be ballanved with the ines we have now. we would have diversity then.

I doubt it. Unless the elite spec provides variety.

Let’s take in for example mesmer. If the weapon sets have no condition cleanse like ele focus, OR other trait lines have unreliable condition cleanses, Inspiration would still be required.

Another example: 2 of the Core rangers Top condition cleanses are in 1 trait line, and they compete with each other.

Unless they fix traits or give other classes some other options other than traitlines (like the ele focus I used as an example) There will still be limited diversity.

Ithilwen.1529:

This does NOTHING absolutely NOTHING to address the issue of class stacking.

I just came from a match with 4 lights and a medium against 2 wars, 2 DH and a Necro.
As expected, it was stupidly unbalanced.

I dont care about what other scrubs say about your post, but this is a legit issue.

Warhorn is still meh to me still. they need to buff number 4.

Wargameur.6950:

Either they go into the nightmare of balancing all traits to make elite specs on par with core. Or they release more elite specs not bundled to extension packs…..

Or the other way around. Make core on par with elite specs.

Theonord.6359:

Wow can’t you just be happy that you got buffed again this time? what is wrong with ele’s wanting more and more even though they are super strong atm.

This is the problem here. Why buff dagger when it was completely fine in the first place? Why not buff warhorn so that we could get more build diversity?

Build Diversity is still a problem, and certain traitlines are still required.

Why is Anet still ignoring this?

Mesmer

Inspiration is required

Druid

Bm/Nm/Druid – Staff still required.

Elementalist

Earth and Water/ Tempest Still required.

Scrapper

Alchemy required.

Necromancer

Blood Magic or Soul Reaping required. Soul reaping has been the longest offender since launch.

Warrior

Discipline Required. Always has been.

All I am saying is that, if you have 1 or 2 traitlines required in every build, there will forever be no build diversity. Anet needs to fix the useless ones while prioritizing which comes first so that every traitline/trait/weapon/utility will be competent enough.

Ex: I just have no idea why Anet still buffs ele dagger (which is a staple in every build like focus) while ignoring Warhorn which is utter trash.

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

StickerHappy.8052:

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

StickerHappy.8052:

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

I’ve been reading all these posted forums about rangers or to be specific druid trait. To be honest the ones crying only made ranger because of druid and cries when it was legitly adjusted. Sotp was an obvious one and shout heal as well. Cele form fix is perfect because it became to forgiving for mistakes with ‘We heal as one’ gaining cele form fast with Regen boon not even counting staffs healing skills. The shortbow was needing some love and we got it. Finally we have a unblockable skill/trait for our pets. Greatsword had some attention. Also, I got to say is if the Cele form and the two shout skills really ohurts your only build you play it seems from what I’ve read; you’ve made the ranger class for the wrong reason. So just leave the class to the vets and stop crying about your HoT influence toon or actually play the ranger class besides playing your bunker pet carrying druid build. This is coming from a 4 year old ranger with no problems with adapting.

Long live Tyria!

Its not fine not until you fix the AF build up scale a little better with damage. If that does not happen, Druids are still pigeonholed into NM/BM/Druid Staff Menders.

I am talking bout higher MMR matches here against skilled players/organized teams. So please think over your rebuttal.

If you know how to play ranger or at all besides meta build like me you will do fine in ‘higher mmr’. Your reply is not productive but trying to rationalize that I’m speaking on low tier terms aka suck. Guess I hit a soft spot on your nerves.

Are you using that “if you know how to play ranger” at me? are you for real? But seriously, just answer my question. Will ranger be viable in top tier outside NM/BM/Druid Staff menders?

You will not do fine vs Organized teams. AGs? really?

If you are good, yes.

Link me a vod on an ESL on a team that won that did not use BM/NM/Druid. Please.

Durzlla.6295:

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

StickerHappy.8052:

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

StickerHappy.8052:

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

I’ve been reading all these posted forums about rangers or to be specific druid trait. To be honest the ones crying only made ranger because of druid and cries when it was legitly adjusted. Sotp was an obvious one and shout heal as well. Cele form fix is perfect because it became to forgiving for mistakes with ‘We heal as one’ gaining cele form fast with Regen boon not even counting staffs healing skills. The shortbow was needing some love and we got it. Finally we have a unblockable skill/trait for our pets. Greatsword had some attention. Also, I got to say is if the Cele form and the two shout skills really ohurts your only build you play it seems from what I’ve read; you’ve made the ranger class for the wrong reason. So just leave the class to the vets and stop crying about your HoT influence toon or actually play the ranger class besides playing your bunker pet carrying druid build. This is coming from a 4 year old ranger with no problems with adapting.

Long live Tyria!

Its not fine not until you fix the AF build up scale a little better with damage. If that does not happen, Druids are still pigeonholed into NM/BM/Druid Staff Menders.

I am talking bout higher MMR matches here against skilled players/organized teams. So please think over your rebuttal.

If you know how to play ranger or at all besides meta build like me you will do fine in ‘higher mmr’. Your reply is not productive but trying to rationalize that I’m speaking on low tier terms aka suck. Guess I hit a soft spot on your nerves.

Are you using that “if you know how to play ranger” at me? are you for real? But seriously, just answer my question. Will ranger be viable in top tier outside NM/BM/Druid Staff menders?

You will not do fine vs Organized teams. AGs? really?

If you are good, yes.

Can vouche for this, I was running Marks/Skirm/BM almost every season before last and was having literally 0 issue with PvP games.

Of course, its solo q. Anything can work. I am talking about actual tourneys.

Ashkew.6584:

I think a very good ranger can make other builds work and be viable in high mar, look at miaz video’s playing mm druid for 1 example.
But i have to say that there are other classes that can fill that roll maybe better and get more value out of it.

Solo q, even in high MMR is not AG or ESLs. Let’s face it, anything can work in solo q.

Chokolata.1870:

The people that complain about a class too such a degree are usually the ones in the lower brackets. Not saying that the Druid did not deserve nerfs, but the hype was way bigger then the actual OP-ness.

The bigger problem that everyone is ignoring is that despite the nerfs/buffs/fixes, we have no viable build outside the NM/BM/Druid Staff Menders meta. Those traitlines are still very much required in top tier pvp.

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

StickerHappy.8052:

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

I’ve been reading all these posted forums about rangers or to be specific druid trait. To be honest the ones crying only made ranger because of druid and cries when it was legitly adjusted. Sotp was an obvious one and shout heal as well. Cele form fix is perfect because it became to forgiving for mistakes with ‘We heal as one’ gaining cele form fast with Regen boon not even counting staffs healing skills. The shortbow was needing some love and we got it. Finally we have a unblockable skill/trait for our pets. Greatsword had some attention. Also, I got to say is if the Cele form and the two shout skills really ohurts your only build you play it seems from what I’ve read; you’ve made the ranger class for the wrong reason. So just leave the class to the vets and stop crying about your HoT influence toon or actually play the ranger class besides playing your bunker pet carrying druid build. This is coming from a 4 year old ranger with no problems with adapting.

Long live Tyria!

Its not fine not until you fix the AF build up scale a little better with damage. If that does not happen, Druids are still pigeonholed into NM/BM/Druid Staff Menders.

I am talking bout higher MMR matches here against skilled players/organized teams. So please think over your rebuttal.

If you know how to play ranger or at all besides meta build like me you will do fine in ‘higher mmr’. Your reply is not productive but trying to rationalize that I’m speaking on low tier terms aka suck. Guess I hit a soft spot on your nerves.

Are you using that “if you know how to play ranger” at me? are you for real? But seriously, just answer my question. Will ranger be viable in top tier outside NM/BM/Druid Staff menders?

You will not do fine vs Organized teams. AGs? really?

Last Warrior Lord.7248:

I’ve been reading all these posted forums about rangers or to be specific druid trait. To be honest the ones crying only made ranger because of druid and cries when it was legitly adjusted. Sotp was an obvious one and shout heal as well. Cele form fix is perfect because it became to forgiving for mistakes with ‘We heal as one’ gaining cele form fast with Regen boon not even counting staffs healing skills. The shortbow was needing some love and we got it. Finally we have a unblockable skill/trait for our pets. Greatsword had some attention. Also, I got to say is if the Cele form and the two shout skills really hurts your only build you play it seems from what I’ve read; you’ve made the ranger class for the wrong reason. So just leave the class to the vets and stop crying about your HoT influence toon or actually play the ranger class besides playing your bunker pet carrying druid build. This is coming from a 4 year old ranger with no problems with adapting.

Long live Tyria!

Its not fine not until you fix the AF build up scale a little better with damage. If that does not happen, Druids are still pigeonholed into NM/BM/Druid Staff Menders.

I am talking bout higher MMR matches here against skilled players/organized teams. So please think over your rebuttal.

anduriell.6280:

Yesterday a could play a bit witht he recent changes to the druid, mostly toying with the healing power and how it affects the avatar.
We got effectively nerfed, the druid with 600 HP heals for about a 20% less than pre-balance patch.

Obviously Anet decided to nerf the sustain of the class, which i find find.
Also nerfed the hability to spam stealth with the Celestial Shadow. That’s the only reason why they increased the CD from avatar.

I couldn’t test out much the wvw side of the changes (CotW or the Shortbow) but mostly for my tests:

• CotW is a much needed change for all those blocks in game, thus is getting ridiculous. Because the buff goes to the pet instead to the ranger i would increase the buff i 2 seconds so the pet has time to do it’s thing.
• Shortbow needs more utility in the weapon set. The condition damage increased is a right call, and the inmmobilize in the hunters shot makes that skill to fulfill it’s purpouse of a catch-up skill.
  Still is a solo sustained dps weapon but because the lack of burst it needs some utility to evade/mobility. Add the leap (i would go as far as 600) option to Quick Shot so it can be used to combo fields which could bring so much needed disengage / utility slot.

What about make the hunter’s shot also to shadowstep to the enemy if it hits?

Now about other weapons:

• Sword needs a means to cleave/follow enemies. That could be simply achieved with giving the hability to choose the direction of the leaps in Sword#2 with the direction you can choose to go, and remove/reduce the cast time on the skill.

• The changes in WhaO or GS aren’t uncalled for and not needed. GS needs more than just a buff in DPS of 10% in maul, and WhaO is not the main reason why some Druids are so good. Maybe is just because they are simply that good

Only thing that wasn’t there for SB was the Confusion change on Concussion shot. If that was implemented then SB will be golden.

Chokolata.1870:

The people that complain about a class too such a degree are usually the ones in the lower brackets. Not saying that the Druid did not deserve nerfs, but the hype was way bigger then the actual OP-ness.

It seems fine but IMO 12 seconds on AF is more reasonable than 15.

@All

15 seconds seems to be an eternity is you are being focused.