Guild Wars 2

Ithilwen.1529:

I would strongly recommend not posting a video. I was asked to kill myself by teammates in PvP after doing so, (at the request of a pro player.) They didn’t want me on there team.

Posting a video will get you identified and harassed in game if the opinions expressed about it on forum are negative.

If you’re bad, you’re bad. That’s the reality. Now instead of being negative about it, how bout use it as a challenge to get better?

Faux Play.6104:

First off thanks for the feed back. I agree with most of it. However, I’m a little disappointed that some of you couldn’t pick up on the [/sarcasm] tag and the fact that I put a question mark in the subject line. Perhaps your thread awareness needs some work. xD

I don’t think I’m a great player, I have watched the top tier player play and there is a noticeable difference between how they play and how I play. There is a long laundry list of things I could have done better. Even though the final score was 501 to 308, (an unwinnable blow to some) if I would have made a few plays we would have had a lot closer match and possible won. If I were replaced with a druid that was legit high gold or plat my team most likely would have won.

However, I did post the video because I think it is a poster child for what people are QQing about. One could make the case that I lost because the other team had a duo, they had a better comp, and in general my team was bad compared to the other team.

• My team got 3 kills total.
• I got credit for all 3.
• My team had 21 total deaths.
• I got the only two resurrections on our team.
• I lead the team in every stat but total damage and defense.

If you want to be a defeatist, the match maker gave me an unwinnable match and I should have afk’d 5 minutes into the match. If you want to take a more positive view, I could clean up a few things in my game play and be able to turn the match.

The stats don’t mean anything in this regard. You guys were all terrible. Your stats might be inflated because everyone is bad. I have no idea how you reached gold. Seriously.

Yes I get your sarcasm but you posted a thread before that an average player can reach gold.

The answer is YES AT THIS TIME BECAUSE EVERYONE GOOD GOT OUT OF GOLD ALREADY. So this is basically bronze vs bronze/silver with a few outliers in gold division.

Vid please. then we decide..

You said it was possible to climb if you are an average player right?

Faux Play.6104:

Here is the proof that it is possible to climb even if you aren’t a pro league player. All matches were solo queue. If you watch my matches I’m an average player. Look at my w/l record and watch the play. I make plenty of mistakes and I’m not anywhere near a top tier player.

Bronze Match: https://www.twitch.tv/ccreynolds/v/113731925
Win to get gold: https://www.twitch.tv/ccreynolds/v/113732202

If you are truly bored, I recorded most of the matches.
https://www.twitch.tv/ccreynolds/manager/past_broadcasts

Now you are claiming there is ELO hell? Dude, I kid you not, You should not be in gold either on the way you played.

Anyway, you played simply terrible.

I would even nitpick on the simplest details:

• See the Lightning field? Don’t blast it?
• You guys let a necro free cast at mid?
• Then focus on the warrior? Why?
• You went mid with 2 people there? (Map Awareness)
• Your ROLE? You should be in team fights not doing a 2v1 where they hold a node.
• Never or seldom called targets?
• Not using pet swap as much. (Your build revolves on boon sharing why not capitalize on that?
• Just spamming Dodges on sw and dagger?
• You had a 3v1 at far one point, I wouldve left the point and outnumbered and supported at mid. You had a 1v1 with a druid too for some time.
• Spent too much time at far for what? You guys cant even cleave or stomp the druid. Even without stab you wouldve gotten a stomp with Stealth by Reverting out of CA.
• Tranq, 1v1 at mid again? I would just rather decap far. you are a druid. you cannot
  burst someone at mid.
• That 1v1 turned into a 2v1 too. What are you doing there? The cap is theirs, there is no way you would force a decap.
• Spent another time at 1v1 at mid vs war. What good did that accomplish? Nothing. The node is theirs, no matter how long you stay there, they are gaining points per second.
• Yeah lets 2v1 the warrior at mid while our team gets massacred at tranq.
• They get tranq.

Hot Boy.7138:

I agree that we need way more significant and more frequent balance changes.

+1 not just hotfixes that needs 4 months to accomplish.

kdaddy.5431:

I have also questioned the rating system.

For a period of time i was in the top 150-250 of the leader board.

I have never dropped below gold 3 but i have had very frustrating moments staying in plat.

Now thats me personally, i do like the friends list rating. Ive seen players i knew who are elite players. Players who ranked in the top 50 who are now both out of the 250. (ill be honest its only 2 players i know)

But all season they were in the top 150 and then boom, in the last week 3-4 losses in a row and they are now out of it. Its a odd thing to comprehend.

It’s not that odd. Some people can’t play a lot of games in a day compared to others. That’s all there is to it. If you play a lot of games with a duo that is still very good, you will still keep or move up from your spot.

I for one is on bronze t1 now lol. I haven’t played in a long time.

About your plat moments, you will be frustrated of course because the season has been going on for a while now hence the population on upper tiers will be diluted (both baddies and average players below your skill level)

shagwell.1349:

7:3 on account 1.

So, what you are saying is that the sheer number of games makes players legendary not their skill?
Sorry, I’m a mediocre gold player and my winrate is where it should be at around 50%.

Still that doesn’t answer the question. Why is one account worse then the two others. I will surely make it into gold with account 3 if I put some effort into it and it will take a lot games less.
Something in the matchmaking does not function properly and that’s what I would call an “mmr hell”.

My stats from yesterday on the “kittened up – account”.
10 games played, 6 wins, 4 losses.
6 wins with a total of 72 points
4 losses with a total of – 48 points

So, i basically made 24 in 10 games by getting 10-14 points per game (on my other accounts the lowest score was 12 points for a win and I sometimes got 20)

Matches I lose mostly look like this:

Ah okay gotcha.

What I mean by the number of games is —- Yes skill matters, but if you are really “plat material” you would not need 250+ games for the MM to correct itself and place you where you rightfully place. Do we both agree on this?

Next, I might be wrong but this has been discussed here on the forums, I think people lose more than they win sometimes, and that we have no idea how the MM calculates specifically since we do not see individual MMR. Maybe you are unlucky (just by coincidence) that the games you won are vs Lower rated players while the games you lost are also vs lower rated players (lower than you) so you lose a lot more.

Finally, you did mention that Account 2 had a lot of people DCs, throwing matches right? If those did not happen, your account 2 would be in gold or close to gold which then only gives you a slight difference from the number of games played account 1 vs account 2. Plus, you did lose a lot of Placement matches (they mattered a lot more than we knew) making you start with a handicap with terrible players (I Did too) so skewing the losses you had.

I would imagine if you did 7-3 on your placements, thus giving you a higher base MMR (meaning you would place around t2-t3 silver or atleast t3 bronze) and atleast get better matches, I would still believe your account 2 would be atleast the same spot as your Account 1.

shagwell.1349:

StickerHappy.8052:

You will not drop to bronze (except for decay) if you are really skilled. We have gone through this multiple times in all seasons. If you are really good enough, you will not be in bronze (atleast)

Mashing your skills off cooldown? <———————- This is your problem right here.

Yes, it’s possible. I posted it in Helseth’s thread already. I’m gold 3 on my main and dropped into bronze on my 2nd account and I can’t get out any more.

Stats:
account 1 (gold 2-3)
253 games, 139 wins
account 2 (bronze 3)
222 games, 100 wins

With account 2 I started in gold 3 after 8:2 in placement and started with a 10 or 11 loss streak – I didn’t play good, but also had teams throwing matches, disconnecting players and lost games were i fought 1v3 while my team still lost one or both of our bases or couldnt take one.
After around 80 games with around 30% win rate I was stuck at bronze. My win rate got better, I got some win streaks where I was able to carry teams or where my teams were just good and players could win 1v1 at least. Still I can’t get my 2nd account out of bronze. I win 2-3 games and get around 30-35 points, lose 1-2 games for 24-28 and basically start anew. At this rate it will take me another 200 games to get into silver 3 or even gold.

So there is a huge difference between my first and my second account. I play the same class and build on both accounts and do some games on a third (about 40 games now) that got into silver recently.

So why is my skill on account 1 and 3 higher and I totally suck on account 2?
The only difference between my accounts is the history of old seasons.

account 1 was ruby or diamond and I almost didn’t play but had a 50+% win rate
account 2 was ruby forever and I lost a huge amount of games in season 3 (many loss streaks), didn’t play in season 4
Account 3 is new and has no pvp history

So, the only reason I see for getting really bad matchups on account 2 is the match history from previous seasons.

You answered that yourself.. With proper skill, I would not even fathom to think that how do you guys need 250+ games to be stuck in gold or bronze. I have no idea how this happens. With this amount of games and proper skill, this sheer number would at least be in plat.

Also, I am afraid to say that IMO, Placements really did matter a lot to be honest. What was your standing on Placements on Account 1? And… were the matches complete blowouts? (aside from the throws). If these were close matches, I would say MM is still working well.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Sykper.6583:

I do not know the extent of which players will accept that they might not be as good as they think they are, compared to what evidence needs to come out suggesting it to be the case. But, from what I have gathered about Matchmaking in general this season after an appropriate amount of games, I can definitely say the ratings are fairly accurate.

I’ve been called a Bronze pleb, and now I’m a Gold pleb. While I personally see myself in the high Silver range, the fact remains that I did not carry my team in 3 out of every 5 games I played. RNG blessed me. Had the RNG matchmaking gone the other way, I would have dropped into deep Bronze.

Skill plays a major part only in certain situations. If your skill level is far beyond that of your tier, then you can make the difference in a match, as Helseth’s kitty alt proved. Otherwise, you’re at the mercy of your teammates skills, or lack there of.

Well you see “RNG Blessed me” is very misleading. Have you ever though that you might have played better (did the right things, rotated better) on the games you won? (Not discrediting you for having better teammates) Again, without proper documentation through videos, this will be very hard to prove.

Sykper.6583:

StickerHappy.8052:

sephiroth.4217:

Sykper.6583:

Fay.2357:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Helseth did not prove Elo Hell can be beaten. He proved that ESL players can beat it.

Helseth did not prove that Elo Hell can be beaten. He proved that Elo Hell can be beaten.

K.

I have to say, the logical leaps and disconnects some of these players make is Legendary Tier. Too bad that level of skill doesn’t carry in-game.

I think you guys threw out your insults too quick but then again I may be wrong when I say you misconstrued what was said.

Helseth didn’t prove that Elo hell can be beaten (for every day players), he proved that he can beat it (at an ESL level of play). I think that’s what was said. Not what you guys said. I could be wrong though.

Again, I consider myself an everyday player before, (almost 7k games now) and clearly this ELO hell can be beaten with casual players such as myself, especially if you duo Q.

I’ve personally addressed the duo-queue with a separate discussion/thread of mine, but beyond that I sincerely mean what I said. Despite the rare and noticed MM issues that the devs are working on for Season 6, which are a very low % of games, MM right now is affixing the appropriate rating and it is very accurate.

I do not know the extent of which players will accept that they might not be as good as they think they are, compared to what evidence needs to come out suggesting it to be the case. But, from what I have gathered about Matchmaking in general this season after an appropriate amount of games, I can definitely say the ratings are fairly accurate. I don’t gloat from a standpoint of a Legendary player, I am not that good, but as someone who made a stupid mistake one day losing a lot of rating and thus spent time getting that rating back to get back to my proper rating.

Ultimately, I am sick and tired of these players not realizing the reality of their position, making attempts to improve, and eventually coming forth with this knowledge. Despite the low population, Matchmaking in normal instances is making fair matches that you are responsible for. No one wins every match.

Imo, the only exception to your claim and mines is the Placement matches, AFKs/DCs/Throws. But essentially these are the only factors that will prevent you from advancing.

Well, Class stacking is a problem too.

sephiroth.4217:

Sykper.6583:

Fay.2357:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Helseth did not prove Elo Hell can be beaten. He proved that ESL players can beat it.

Helseth did not prove that Elo Hell can be beaten. He proved that Elo Hell can be beaten.

K.

I have to say, the logical leaps and disconnects some of these players make is Legendary Tier. Too bad that level of skill doesn’t carry in-game.

I think you guys threw out your insults too quick but then again I may be wrong when I say you misconstrued what was said.

Helseth didn’t prove that Elo hell can be beaten (for every day players), he proved that he can beat it (at an ESL level of play). I think that’s what was said. Not what you guys said. I could be wrong though.

Again, I consider myself an everyday player before, (almost 7k games now) and clearly this ELO hell can be beaten with casual players such as myself, especially if you duo Q.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

apharma.3741:

I dunno, seems you’re on par with most of gold…

If that’s the case, then why does Anet even have Ranked PvP? It’s disheartening that Gold tier is meaningless.

StickerHappy.8052:

Also judging from your screenie, if you have 6k top stats, you are only around 2.5k games to 3.5k games total played in pvp. Pretty sure there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Most of that is from Hotjoin daily farm maps I think. When I play something with AOE heals, I pop it on top Skyhammer, so I get bonus stats from heals.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sorry it was Thursday night so the 19th

Yeah, that’s when I swapped to D/D to test out some Condi builds. Lost 2 in a row. But I wasn’t Gold, I was T3 Silver.

So you mean to say you have less total games played right?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Hmm says he plays engie but I all I saw last night was a Thief always on the ground every two seconds. And the fact he was in gold last night not at the cusp of Bronze…

I think you got the wrong player in mind mate.

Also judging from your screenie, if you have 6k top stats, you are only around 2.5k games to 3.5k games total played in pvp. Pretty sure there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

StickerHappy.8052:

You will not drop to bronze (except for decay) if you are really skilled. We have gone through this multiple times in all seasons. If you are really good enough, you will not be in bronze (atleast)

Mashing your skills off cooldown? <———————- This is your problem right here.

I was 1 loss away from Bronze, and now I just reached Gold. If MMR is based on skill, then I wouldn’t have been pushed to ~1050, and I shouldn’t be at 1350 if my problem is mashing buttons.

You do know at this point of time gold is trash right?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

StickerHappy.8052:

There is also one big fallacy your argument is making, You completely eliminate the fact of getting better.

ESL level is way different yes, but human capability can also reach at that level. I do not play as much anymore due to IRL stuff but trust me, countless games and duels, watching videos, making your own team, joining AGs (Even if you LOSE) will make you a better player than most.

I can remember Caspian losing most 1v1s with Chaos A or Rylock but now look where he is.

Incorrect. My gameplay is the same was it was when I dropped to the cusp of Bronze. I play an Engi, and I mash my skills whenever they’re off cooldown. I did not get better. I got better teammates.

You will not drop to bronze (except for decay) if you are really skilled. We have gone through this multiple times in all seasons. If you are really good enough, you will not be in bronze (atleast)

Mashing your skills off cooldown? <———————- This is your problem right here.

There is also one big fallacy your argument is making, You completely eliminate the fact of getting better.

ESL level is way different yes, but human capability can also reach at that level. I do not play as much anymore due to IRL stuff but trust me, countless games and duels, watching videos, making your own team, joining AGs (Even if you LOSE) will make you a better player than most.

I can remember Caspian losing most 1v1s with Chaos A or Rylock but now look where he is.

This is sooo good.

Mind finishing it?

1.) Need stun break utilities with the transformations even 1.
2.) you are missing 2 Major traits each for Adept, Minor, and GM
3.) I think the GM trait is okay but I dont want a herald ripoff. Might be better if they are soft CC conditions, will synergize really well with Predator’s Instinct

Justine.6351:

The PM trait is a trait in conflict. So any build based on it is a build that conflicts with itself.

Traited survival and shout trooper are run for a reason, active condi removal. Is also why traited glyphs died when the trait got nerfed.

If you do run a PM build you are running condi which means you are forced into skirmishing. This means your other option for active condi removal with shouts is blocked. You could dump sotw for sor.

The problems I see with poison focused builds is tied to the PM trait blocking all your utility skills short of running traps and even then your elite skill will be untraited and none of the elite skills are very good untraited.

The one way I would run a poison build is to not even use the PM trait. It really does add very little, especially without pet swap CD from the beast mastery line.

Again, If you read my post. I clearly mentioned that PM is not required. I only run it to preserve the flavor of the build.

Also, again, I mentioned that dumping SoTW needs testing with the AF change. I assure you the build will not work without It since you wont generate enough AF bec of the lack of perma regen + traits from BM. No Dolyak either.

Shout trooper? Maybe in WvW. In PvP only the shoutbow runs trooper (which has a very small presence in top tier pvp so the point is irrelevant) Bunker druid S/D does not run either Trooper runes or Survival skills.

Justine.6351:

Wow amazing,

Practically no poison application
2 big condi purges then /sit
Nothing except 2 traps traited
3 mediocre sigils
Zero +% condition duration

I guess I can appreciate why people say traited celestial avatar and hot pets carry druids.

No poison application? Did you even watch the videos? guess not. Poison Sources: PM, Trap, Sigils, Refined Toxins and SW 3. No idea where you got the No poison application from.

2 Big condi purges? I clearly mentioned that condition cleanse was a weakness of the build and You can easily remedy that. Guess what? the meta has 2 big condi purges too via Druidic Clarity + SoR

Zero Condition duration? This Actually very false. Traited traps give you 60% Condition duration on a specific trap, which is more than enough for me. Why do you need Condition duration? This is not WvW. Application > Duration

3 Mediocre Sigils? Lol. What do you want me to use then?

So much hate on your post for me sharing a different playstyle for fellow rangers.

Here is a build I used very successfully In Season 3 and other matches.

I am using a Poison Master Druid Sage build.

Vs The meta.

• Different Roles: My PM build focuses on condition pressure through Cleaves and Almost perma Poison Uptime. Cleaving Downed who are with Ressers via BonFire + Poison Trap.
• On Point fighter. I would say this counters other druids and eles on a point.
• The Meta focuses more on support through NM plus more healing via Menders.

Strengths

• Very strong on point pressure.
• Although without mender, the build still heals a lot just because of Healing Spring + Quickdraw so you get multiple water field + blast finishers.
• Provides more team support outside druid form. Condition Cleanse through healing spring, Blast Finishers for might, weakness, and healing.
• More Damage for the team via spotter.
• Game has too much blocks? Traps are unblockable, SoTW for more unblockables
• Easy 12-15 stacks of Poison.

Weaknesses

• Mobility. You have to use a mobility rune like traveler or lynx or speed.
• Condition Clears ( This is easily remedied, you can get Emphatic Bond against other comps)
• AF regen, (Haven’t tested this with the new 15 sec AF CD, but I would use SoTW for AF regen + another source of Stab)
• Sustain via Signet of Stone, I would love to replace SotW With it but I have no idea how AF regen will suffer if I remove it.

Pets

• On the video, I tested with tiger for perma fury since the build lacks precision.
• Marsh Drake is AMAZING for more poison
• Drakes are also good because 3/4 Attacks Cleave + 1 more Blast Finisher
• You can use the traditional Smokescale + Bristleback Combo.

Notes

• THE BUILD WAS USED IN SEASON 3, THIS WAS BEFORE SCRAPPER AND OTHER MESMER NERFS <——- I would say the build will be better in fighting these classes now.

• THE BUILD WILL WORK EVEN WITHOUT POISON MASTER, I USE IT JUST BECAUSE IT RETAINS THE FLAVOR OF THE BUILD.

• I USED TRAVELER IN THE BUILD ON THE VIDEOS SINCE WE DID NOT HAVE LYNX BACK THEN

• DON’T NEED DPS? SWITCH TO S/D FOR MORE SUSTAIN

• I did not get Ambidexterity for the CD because of Quickdraw. Although yes Refined Toxins is TERRIBLE, I really like the poison uptime because of that trait.
• You can also use Shared Anguish If CC becomes a problem
• Solo Q you can go with Hidden Barbs but Spotter for team play
• As I have said, go Emphatic Bond against Condi Heavy comps
• Protect Me for Ancient seed proc, + short CD stun breaker.

Build

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAW8fnMqA1CidrAWsActgFGBDupOV7qNjrOXSjpA8tCAlI9zA-TZxGQB5rMQA3fQAXBAA8AAGwBBAA

Videos

• Season 3 Match

I had pretty high MMR in season 3, you can see familiar good players here like Vain, Caiuss, Etc. (Not bragging, just trying to justify the effectiveness of the build! haha)

• Pre Season Match

Regular Match

1 Change to would boost build diversity for Tempests is:

Swap Harmonious Conduit With Speedy Conduit (Speedy Conduit would be the major and get the 10% damage and Harmonious Conduit would be a Minor which has stab on overloads)

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

OriOri.8724:

Carighan.6758:

messiah.1908:

phantasm build should be added as its our core design. the dmg should be as a sustain dmg and not burst

burst- shatter build (like thief) condi or dmg (later need boost to dmg)
sustain – phantasm build like ranger with pet should now be harder to kill and attack bit more often. could split to defense sustain or offense sustain.
support – another build which got gutted with chrono line and wells. no with no boons, no healing.

Honestly the devs are seriously struggling to have the amount of work hours on deck to make one setup work per class.

And you want multiple. That’s entirely utopian.

If anything we should be campaigning to collapse the options. Maybe Mesmers should just be a burst damage class, in all game modes, always, and be built around that (which also implies PvE needs elements which are much easier with burst compared to sustained damage).

I mean I’d have never thought that I’d like the way WoW does their classes in hindsight (in reality each spec is a unique class entirely, but each spec only has one real way they play as the triplets of talents and the legendary skills are all more or less fixed for each setup), but I do. At least they have a consistent design target for each spec and each expansion. So everything is built around that.

GW2 is lacking that. They have this “everyone should have some of everything” goal, which ultimately just means no one feels like they do anything particularly well.

No. This game is sold as a game where you can play as you want, and forcing each class into 1 and only 1 role is the exact opposite of that.

So this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, because of how toxic the garbage ‘play how you want’ mindset is to this game.

You are pulling that quote completely out of context and using it in a way that it was not intended. The way that was stated was in the sense that players are not required to play WvW for things. They’re not required to PvP or to do specific kinds of PvE. You get rewarded for any type of play in GW2, and therefor you can play how you want.

It was NOT intended as ‘oh, I can slap together whatever stupid combination of garbage on my character and expect groups to take me because I’m a special snowflake playing how I want’.

The lack of a holly trinity in this game shows otherwise though. No one is forced into a healing role. No one is forced into a damage role. Yes, some classes are better at those roles than others are, but no class is forced into them like they would be in other games. This is very much about both which game mode and how you want to play each class.

No, you’re wrong. Just because you want it to mean something else doesn’t automatically make it that way.

I’m not wrong, you’re just quick to mislabel something. Even in raids classes aren’t locked to a single playstyle. Chronos can tank, like they almost always do, or they can go condi for matthias. Druids can go as a healer or a condi ranger. No class is locked into a single playstyle like you claim they are. This game wasn’t designed around a class only having 1 way to be played.

PvP high tier they are. You will be fool to run something that is not efficient.

The problem is 0 build diversity.

I think you misunderstood what Pyro said, he said you cannot run something that is just a mish mash of a builds which STILL fall into the category of ANY.

Fay.2357:

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

OriOri.8724:

Carighan.6758:

messiah.1908:

phantasm build should be added as its our core design. the dmg should be as a sustain dmg and not burst

burst- shatter build (like thief) condi or dmg (later need boost to dmg)
sustain – phantasm build like ranger with pet should now be harder to kill and attack bit more often. could split to defense sustain or offense sustain.
support – another build which got gutted with chrono line and wells. no with no boons, no healing.

Honestly the devs are seriously struggling to have the amount of work hours on deck to make one setup work per class.

And you want multiple. That’s entirely utopian.

If anything we should be campaigning to collapse the options. Maybe Mesmers should just be a burst damage class, in all game modes, always, and be built around that (which also implies PvE needs elements which are much easier with burst compared to sustained damage).

I mean I’d have never thought that I’d like the way WoW does their classes in hindsight (in reality each spec is a unique class entirely, but each spec only has one real way they play as the triplets of talents and the legendary skills are all more or less fixed for each setup), but I do. At least they have a consistent design target for each spec and each expansion. So everything is built around that.

GW2 is lacking that. They have this “everyone should have some of everything” goal, which ultimately just means no one feels like they do anything particularly well.

No. This game is sold as a game where you can play as you want, and forcing each class into 1 and only 1 role is the exact opposite of that.

So this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, because of how toxic the garbage ‘play how you want’ mindset is to this game.

You are pulling that quote completely out of context and using it in a way that it was not intended. The way that was stated was in the sense that players are not required to play WvW for things. They’re not required to PvP or to do specific kinds of PvE. You get rewarded for any type of play in GW2, and therefor you can play how you want.

It was NOT intended as ‘oh, I can slap together whatever stupid combination of garbage on my character and expect groups to take me because I’m a special snowflake playing how I want’.

The lack of a holly trinity in this game shows otherwise though. No one is forced into a healing role. No one is forced into a damage role. Yes, some classes are better at those roles than others are, but no class is forced into them like they would be in other games. This is very much about both which game mode and how you want to play each class.

No, you’re wrong. Just because you want it to mean something else doesn’t automatically make it that way.

Although to be fair, anything works for solo q, as long as its not super kittened. I mean, you can play anything not meta for casual play.

Fluffball.8307:

StickerHappy.8052:

No matter what changes you make, let’s face it, if you have Druid, you HAVE to support. Really, otherwise the whole traitline and AF form is a waste.

I think the real value is the 1v1 or 2v2 ability. You can support ‘yourself’ and get good value out of staff and druid.

That alone isn’t good enough, but you have the other goodies like reasonable team support, reasonable pressure, good CC and so on. Druid is decent at like 10 different things. I never freak out if I see multiple druids on my team, I just swap amulets to something more damaging and we’ve got all roles covered.

Well to be fair on your other post, Anything works for solo q. Noone Is top tier here except for maybe talgo. I would like to do AGs and ESLs too but real life is calling.

Fluffball.8307:

That’s the exact reasoning I use when selecting weapons before a match, jcbroe. Tempest = LB.

And I think GS/staff is still something that should be considered. It’s a great decap build if you don’t have a thief and it makes sense with the rest of the comp.

Druid is not the best at any one role, but it’s probably the most versatile profession without having to change traits, just swap your non-staff weapon and boom, new role. Very easy before a match.

Druid is still pretty much a meta support role. Just because Druid is solely based on healing.

No matter what changes you make, let’s face it, if you have Druid, you HAVE to support. Really, otherwise the whole traitline and AF form is a waste.

Fluffball.8307:

Many of the skills you listed also prevent staff from hitting, and staff can be LoSed. The reflect overabundance has been overblown. On paper it’s a problem, in practice it really isn’t a big deal. And people tend to use reflects immediately rather than strategically. Show a LB, reflect goes up, swap to staff and you’re good to go for the rest of the fight.

But here’s the big thing you are missing. Staff provides sustain to you and your team. Okay your opponent blocks? Heal yourself or or allies, you can kite too. LB does nothing of that.

That’s why Staff is very much superior to the team. Another problem with LB 4 is there too much stability farting in the game. And this nullifies 1 skill on your set. All of them if your opponent has reflects.

Imo, one major thing to consider for LB is you HAVE to use MM. Either for the unblockable or damage. Which in turn, you need to sacrifice BM or NM. You lose NM, you lose sustain, you lose boon sharing and you lose support.

You lose BM and You have to go WS or Signets for utility which in turn removes your mobility, and AF regen.

LB is not really the problem per se, its just that Some traitlines are very much required, limiting build options for LB AND the abundance of Projectile hate and stab.

jcbroe.4329:

Fluffball.8307:

I do remember someone running LB/staff other than eura in the pro season. Can’t remember the name though or even what team. It was a decap focused build, and then hold it neuted with menders. I think he may have had GoT??

I don’t think LB can be reduced to “gimmick”, if RF is what the gimmick is. RF does not do particularly impressive damage.

What I view as LBs purpose is setting up the kill for someone else. So if you’ve got teamies 1v1 on mid, you +1 while simultaneously covering a side point, hit the opponent with a hard CC, RF, smoke assault or whatever floats your boar and then leave to defend your point again. Druid with any weapon can easily hold a point, and LB is outstanding at catching people in the open field. On point LB is not ideal. I generally play between points, although thieves can complicate that.

I didn’t mean gimmick in an offensive way lol. And the gimmick is LB4 into an ancient seeds proc.

And all I mean to say is that in a direct meta game evaluation, the LB build loses efficacy against a lot of the common builds due to projectile hate, CC immunity, etc.

In real scenarios, if you can make the LB work for you better than S/D, that’s fantastic. Personally I think it carries better because you can actually kill people with less effort and with a bigger burst, which is definitely needed when you’re with people that don’t perform well at being in the damage role (oh yay, my necro is pushing far, and is now trying to go for a lord push when the game is only at 100 points and theres a team fight where they would have been useful in).

BUT, when there is a majority of people on the enemy team that you can’t catch with the LBs combo, then the weapon is no longer outperforming other weapon choices. Staff with quickness does relatively the same amount of single target damage, and swapping to sword autos during the Bristleback burst does roughly the same damage that RF does.

So at the end of the day; the major deciding factor is “how often can I setup my LB4 Ancient Seeds combo in this match?”

Highly skill dependent too. Like, people weak on Tempest get wrecked by LB4 and you can effectively shut down the enemy support all game. People good on Tempest will make your LB useless beyond Barrage because they cover all their important skills with projectile hate and invulnerability. And that’s just one class.

Without the sheer amount of blocking, projectile hate, stability, and immunity in the metagame, I think LB would be the better build in a heartbeat. But CC like the LB is the reason for this metagame in the first place.

TLDR. Against organized teams LB is a no no just because of the fact that there is too much projectile hate on meta classes running meta builds.

ELE: Magnetic Aura, Swirling Winds, Electric Wave

DH: All the blocks, Shield OH

Scrapper: Hammer Blocks and Reflects, Bulwark Gyro also minimizes Damage

Warrior: Blocks, Shield Trait, Shattering Blow

Not to mention you can LOS LB too so yeah..

Another minor I would add is that as you have mentioned there is too much kitten CC in the game. 2 of our LB skills are channeled. Easily Interruptible.

MEANING = you have to stay far far away to get your shots in = You lose support for the team since if you wanna capitalize on druid heals or what not, you have to be close to your teammates.

Exedore.6320:

This thread is so useless.

If you have “bad” stacked classes, then one of you should be switching if you really want to win. If a class is stacked because it’s too good, then it needs nerfed. There is no need to restrict class stacking.

LOL. This is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Yea I can switch. How bout the other 2 people on the team if They don’t want to?

1.) Not everyone WANTS to switch.

2.) Not everyone WANTS to communicate either.

3.) Not Everyone MULTICLASSES

4.) What if they don’t wanna switch? So do I deserve to lose because of other people not wanting to switch?

5.) If there are 2 or more classes Stacked. We HAVE NO WAY to tell What are they running. UNLESS THEY communicate, what if they Don’t?

6.) If A class is STACKED then it needs to NERFED? LOL. What if they are running 2 different builds?

So much BS on your post man.

Thanks.6859:

your a lie ? you played 200 games you won 109

Didnt wanna come off as rude. No offense calm down. All I am saying The top stats you have in your pvp tab Account for your TOTAL PVP GAMES, BEFORE the season started and the CURRENT.

So if you only see only 3500 top stats in your pvp tab = Means you havent played a lot of PvP = This explains the low MMR you got = Stuck In bronze

Again not bashing you or anything

Thanks.6859:

My top stats awarded 3500 so yea f this

3500? Isnt that few? I have 12.8k top stats.

Lucentfir.7430:

PVP drama is really brewing now. /popcorn.

Welp the OP will not reply anymore since he has been exposed.

MissCee.1295:

How many threads and how many different ways can the same thing be said?

And none of those got any single feedback. Classic.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ithilwen.1529:

There’s an obvious issue here. I have 85 games and have fallen 2 division in the past day or so* . I play and in so doing risk my MMR.

*(possibly due to wider mmr ranges. I went from over 50% wins to closer to 40% in a matter of a day.)

Our “top players in the game” have as few as 27 games. This creates two issues;

First, there’s a strong incentive NOT to play since playing risks one’s win ratio. The last thing PvP needs is to encourage players not to play.

This may be a reason for the wider ranging matchmaking. Too few players are willing to risk there standing by playing.

Second, that small a number of games is not a very reliable test of skill.

ANET should take into account games played AND win ratio.

Anet does take into account game played with their Mmr info.
just because a player may play more games does not mean they should be placed higher in the ladder or have a higher Mmr since this is more of a skill based system vs the last 4 seasons which were all grind based. If the players skill doesn’t improve then that player will never move up the Ladder.

Granted they do need to make the decay system less forgiving and should implement a number of games played each day into the equation now.

They didn’t take your Total PvP games played tho. I think they should’ve. This gives them statistics if you really know how to play pvp or not.

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

Emdrix.6124:

Unless you play off prime time this shouldnt happen very often. The matchmaking for me has been going fine except when I played at 4 AM I got paired against rank 1 and 2 players with 300 MMR points above me a couple days ago.

Bronze player in platium game is a very very rare case. Tbh I dont even think its possible

You are in every thread white knighting the system. There are a lot of complaints in the forums and in game. Sure.. the system is okay if it strokes your ego.

Complaints are from bad players regarding matchmaking. I dont see any good player saying matchmaking is not working.

If the class balance was good aswell this system would be perfect

Also I cant find your name on the leaderboard, that explains why u QQ so much

Really?

So you disregard the fact that:

Class Stacking is a thing?
Placement Matches were whack?
A lot of players are getting lower skilled players on their team despite the MMR rating?
DCs and AFKers are also a thing?
The system is catered to Duos?

So..

You only saw that class balance was a problem?

All the things you listed happen to everyone not just you. I just proved it that duo Qing is not necessary to be top 250 or even top 100. Stop finding excuses for your own failure. How do you explain that there are no top players stuck in low divisions?

Why is Helseth not stuck in bronze? Why is Toker not stuck in silver? You are not as good as you think, its not the matchmaking fault

Uhmm they do que? Helseth Duo ques with ROM, andddd they did good on the placement matches.

They didn’t start at silver or bronze = being on a higher division = gives you more competent teammates and matchups.

How am I making excuses? I just pointed out that you are white knighting. I never said I was stuck or anything. You sir are triggered

U said in some thread u were stuck in silver thats probably where u belong idk why the QQ. If course I am triggered by people who blame matchmaking. I started in silver too and had to problem to climb pure solo Q to top 100.

In silver my teammates were terrible but so was the enemy team. Silver division was just a gold farm , easy wins.

That was days ago. But my main point was the placement matches. They were terrible. Terrible matches. That alone was a big jump for people who did great.

Let’s admit it, we have to see the Individual MMR + Team MMR. Just to prove if matchmaking is working..

You do experience getting teammates who are terrible but belong to a high rank.

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

Emdrix.6124:

Unless you play off prime time this shouldnt happen very often. The matchmaking for me has been going fine except when I played at 4 AM I got paired against rank 1 and 2 players with 300 MMR points above me a couple days ago.

Bronze player in platium game is a very very rare case. Tbh I dont even think its possible

You are in every thread white knighting the system. There are a lot of complaints in the forums and in game. Sure.. the system is okay if it strokes your ego.

Complaints are from bad players regarding matchmaking. I dont see any good player saying matchmaking is not working.

If the class balance was good aswell this system would be perfect

Also I cant find your name on the leaderboard, that explains why u QQ so much

Really?

So you disregard the fact that:

Class Stacking is a thing?
Placement Matches were whack?
A lot of players are getting lower skilled players on their team despite the MMR rating?
DCs and AFKers are also a thing?
The system is catered to Duos?

So..

You only saw that class balance was a problem?

All the things you listed happen to everyone not just you. I just proved it that duo Qing is not necessary to be top 250 or even top 100. Stop finding excuses for your own failure. How do you explain that there are no top players stuck in low divisions?

Why is Helseth not stuck in bronze? Why is Toker not stuck in silver? You are not as good as you think, its not the matchmaking fault

Uhmm they do que? Helseth Duo ques with ROM, andddd they did good on the placement matches.

They didn’t start at silver or bronze = being on a higher division = gives you more competent teammates and matchups.

How am I making excuses? I just pointed out that you are white knighting. I never said I was stuck or anything. You sir are triggered

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

Emdrix.6124:

Unless you play off prime time this shouldnt happen very often. The matchmaking for me has been going fine except when I played at 4 AM I got paired against rank 1 and 2 players with 300 MMR points above me a couple days ago.

Bronze player in platium game is a very very rare case. Tbh I dont even think its possible

You are in every thread white knighting the system. There are a lot of complaints in the forums and in game. Sure.. the system is okay if it strokes your ego.

Complaints are from bad players regarding matchmaking. I dont see any good player saying matchmaking is not working.

If the class balance was good aswell this system would be perfect

Also I cant find your name on the leaderboard, that explains why u QQ so much

Really?

So you disregard the fact that:

Class Stacking is a thing?
Placement Matches were whack?
A lot of players are getting lower skilled players on their team despite the MMR rating?
DCs and AFKers are also a thing?
The system is catered to Duos?

So..

You only saw that class balance was a problem?

Emdrix.6124:

Unless you play off prime time this shouldnt happen very often. The matchmaking for me has been going fine except when I played at 4 AM I got paired against rank 1 and 2 players with 300 MMR points above me a couple days ago.

Bronze player in platium game is a very very rare case. Tbh I dont even think its possible

You are in every thread white knighting the system. There are a lot of complaints in the forums and in game. Sure.. the system is okay if it strokes your ego.

Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217:

mrauls.6519:

Carrying a game as a solo queue is hard as hell. I wish ANet would show us the MMR of our teammates. I feel like teams are composed of players from a wide range of MMR.

All that will really solve is everyone being able to yell at the lowest-MMR’d person on the team, whether it’s their fault or not.

Lol. way to think so close mindedly. If a person has high MMR but did jack kitten on the team, will you not yell at him?

The issue is not Inspiration in itself. The problem is there is no other traitline / weapon (like ele magnetic wave) that offers a reliable condition cleanse.

Nila.7813:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7b5GZg2nr0

Boosted monkey. Watch the entire vid for the lulz.

Is it just me or the video has potato quality?

BlackBeard.2873:

The problem with s/f ele is twofold:

1. On the first level, they don’t have enough damage for being a damage build. Yea, their max burst is nice, and maybe on par with other burst, but it comes with at least a 20s cooldown, as it requires hitting a 3x phoenix at least. Other classes can burst much more frequently. They also lack spammable defense like thieves who can chain 5 dodges + 2 more after healing, in addition to stealth and longer range blinks to gtfo of trouble, or revs who can chain invulns/evades/blocks for about 15s, and have good damage in that time as well as cc’s.

2. Even if they fixed the damage by halving the cooldown of phoenix and further buffing air auto-attacks, s/f ele would STILL be worse than the alternative for a burst role:
- Thief has like 3x the map mobility that ele has. Between 450 range dodges they can spam and shortbow 5, thief brings an insane threat to the map when fights go awry and they need to dip out. This makes them the best at the role of +1.
- Rev has more staying power in a fight, and WAY more ability to chase and finish targets. Eles are much better at kiting, but they are relatively easy to get away from for the most part.
- For the best comparison, look to shatter mesmer (which also isn’t top-tier viable). Shatter mesmer is very much like s/f ele, with the abilty to do damage from range, great kiting (probably superior due to staff blink, although superspeed has value too), and has about as much cleanse thanks to inspiration buffs. However, mes can shatter burst MUCH more frequently, AND most of all, brings portal which opens up very big plays.
- DH has about the same burst when comboed, but better sustained damage, and way more invulns/blocks (including a long group block), while packing similar mobility and cleanse.

By the way, I am comparing core s/f ele. Tempest doesn’t work against good players in a dps role. Trying to overload for 5s in melee range, with only prot and a super-squishy body doesn’t work when players get good enough to just interrupt it (its a FIVE SECOND CHANNEL!!) or kite it out then kill. I mean, against teams with a competent thief, not only will you never finish a channel (even with the stab stack), you open yourself up to constant pulmonary impacts to add to your trouble.

1 more thing, the skills take too long to hit. Dragon’s tooth, Phoenix (you have to hit it in point blank range), Shatterstone (still)

Highlie.7641:

There is so much miss information from people who want to claim skill.

Going 50/50 Is not where you suppose to be (See Screen shot), the ones that are saying they can single handly carry a game are completly full of it. I’m a thief, i can keep one point caped and one point neutral. It does not matter most games, since your teammates are constantly charging home point and dieing 4on3.

Supreme you should just ignore Locuz, He’s just a troll trying to boost his ego.

Eventally i will get motivated enough to post a video, Until then, let’s observe some “Quality match making”

Is this legit? Wow. I have no idea why you are in bronze for your skill level, I for one am in t3 silver lel.

Primal.2036:

Player 1 legendary last 4 season, 60% win rate. Gets placed Silver t3.

Player 2 highest was ruby. 57% win rate. Gets placed Gold t2.

Both players solo Q first 10 games. Both got at least 1 top stat in all 10 games. (If I’m not mistaken)

I really want to understand how the system works, and why is there such a difference?
Anyone knows why this is a thing?

PD: if a player leaves at the start of a game and you end up 4v5, shouldn’t count as a loss.

It’s the W/L ratio. I went for 5-5 in placement matches landed at t3 silver. And My initial MMR was the mostly the same with ESL players.

Crapgame.6519:

Interesting discussion. It is easier to fall then climb. Good and above players help there is no argument. However, there is also no argument that a single good player is going to carry the rest of the field. Easiest way to look at it is if you spell team. There is no “I” in team meaning a single person.

All any of them had to do was go play WoW and some arena’s and see how it is done. This isn’t anything like trying to re-invent the wheel.

You mean “not going to carry”

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

No.

Get lucky on your placement matches and you get High gold to platinum or Even Legendary.

This is the big flaw in the system.

But if a Bronze tier player gets lucky and ends up in Plat he will drop down fast once he restarts playing. The system is working if people keep playing their matches.

Not necessarily. Look at these two examples:

1.) Bronze player in legendary that can be carried by 4 people who are good

OR

2.) Platinum player in silver who got unlucky with placement matches and have to carry 3 or 4 people.

Which situation is more beneficial to the player?

he will never get carried by 4 good players if the enemy team has 5 good players. People need to stop with this BS. Of course every1 thinks they are special snowflakes and belong in legendary but that’s not the case. If you think you are very good then find a friend as good as you and climb to where you think you belong.

He can, done this multiple times dude. People should also stop with the BS you are spouting man. PLACEMENT MATCHES DID MATTER. It is harder to climb than fall (not literally)

Yes I do not belong in legendary, But I also do not belong in t3/silver/gold and a lot of decent players I know are stuck in silver. I for one stopped paying attention to the divisions because they do not matter. Do they deserve to be there? No. It seems like you guys on the other side of the spectrum NEVER GET BAD TEAMMATES. And when you do and you win it’s always the “I CARRIED” mentality right?

Emdrix.6124:

Crowley.8761:

This is completely wrong, the rating system is entirely based on having luck with teams in placement matches and so ranks become pointless.

“Oh you can just fight your way to the top”.
No. You can’t. You can’t carry your teams for that many matches. And you will NEVER catch up to the people with good placement. Not ever. So long s5, better luck next time.

Yes you can carry . My placements matches were 4v5 and I lost the first 2. I ended up in a scrub division that I could easely win 1v2s and carry all the way to Plat. Now the matches are more even. If you get unlucky and get placed low you can easely win 1v2 or even 1v3

You can yes, But you cannot carry EVERYTHING. So what if you lose 5 times in a row due to stupid reasons, what is the excuse then?

Emdrix.6124:

StickerHappy.8052:

No.

Get lucky on your placement matches and you get High gold to platinum or Even Legendary.

This is the big flaw in the system.

But if a Bronze tier player gets lucky and ends up in Plat he will drop down fast once he restarts playing. The system is working if people keep playing their matches.

Not necessarily. Look at these two examples:

1.) Bronze player in legendary that can be carried by 4 people who are good

OR

2.) Platinum player in silver who got unlucky with placement matches and have to carry 3 or 4 people.

Which situation is more beneficial to the player?

Xca.9721:

tfw u dont get rewarded at all for playing good. just played as thief, was decapping and +1ing all over the place (16 kills, 1 death), still lost. ofc I got -14 rating, meanwhile when I win its around 11-13

Sshhh. People will tell you to get better and carry 4 more people.

No.

Get lucky on your placement matches and you get High gold to platinum or Even Legendary.

This is the big flaw in the system.

RandomNameDude.8263:

I dont buy it. its too much of a coincidence. i always end up on the opposite team of good pvp players i know the name of, always. im just there to help them climb up the division.

like this right?

http://imgur.com/a/izqlZ