Dev has finally commented on this issue here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Can-someone-explain-these-cap-limits-with-farming-mobs-dungeons/194976
Its the same tech as in dungeons, and isnt working properly.
You’re making things up. It mentions nothing about event DR or loot DR.
Nevermind, a Dev has finally commented on the situation here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Can-someone-explain-these-cap-limits-with-farming-mobs-dungeons/194976
Stop posting that. There’s no mention of event DR or loot DR, only dungeon DR.
It is currently bugged. Check the Dev posts and they have now said its to do with the same tech used in dungeons being, well, borked, and not working properly.
The only thing mentioned there is the dungeon diminishing returns. No one says anything about the loot DR or the event DR.
How many events did it take to hit the cap?
This was the second time I hit the cap so unfortunately in this case I wasn’t keeping exact track. I’d guess somewhere around 8 events.
Hey folks,
I figured it was already posted on this thread, but in the case that it is not posted and/or lost in the threadnaught, I am going to reiterate something that seemed to surprise people in another thread.
The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible.
What about the Dynamic Event diminishing returns or the loot farming diminishing returns? I’ve hit the dynamic event cap every single day for the past four days without repeating any events. This is killing my ability to get karma for my legendary.
(edited by Strill.2591)
There’s definitely been a disproportionate level of exaggeration on behalf of those who are angry. Some perhaps warranted, but very few have actually gone out and tested the theory and provided results. That’s been my observation so far.
I’ve done plenty of testing. If you’d like me to report on anything specific, just ask.
Thinking from a perspective of bug testing it’d be beneficial to know your character level, zone it was in etc. You know, details like the OP did.
Level 80, cursed shore.
I’ve tried two main paths. One was:
3x Chain: Maggot Chain (located in the south)
Defend Penitent Camp
Defend Shelter’s Gate Camp
Defend Jofast Camp
These event chains repeat about once per 15 – 30 mins, so that’s maybe 15 events per hour because I was sometimes only able to complete one or two of the camp defense events while waiting between the maggot chain.
After exploring the map more thoroughly, I found a better, far more varied path.
Northwest Cursed Shore:
Escort Rattan
4x Chain: Escort Explorer Plix
Escort Packheart
2x Chain: Arena of Balthazar
Killl Champion Drake Broodmother
Kill Champion Abomination
Defend R&D Camp from Tar Elementals
Total: 11 events
Eastern Cursed Shore:
Defend Penitent Camp
Defend Shelter’s Gate Camp
Defend Jofast Camp
2x Defend Explorer So & So from Gorillas
Total: 5 events
I started out doing the first path with the maggot chain. I repeated it for several hours per day for four days and NEVER ONCE hit the event cap. Once I started doing the second path, however, was the first time I hit the cap. The second path has far more events concentrated into a very small space. The events in the northwest are so dense in fact, that it’s possible to do two or three of them at the same time. Furthermore, it gives you updates to the town defense events so you can always get to them in time.
The first time I hit the cap was 45 minutes into a karma booster, and I had not been doing any events before popping the booster. After trying again the next morning, I hit the cap within 25 minutes.
When I hit the cap, I’ve attempted to go to other zones, such as Malchor’s Leap and Straits of Devastation, however, my rewards were reduced there just as in cursed shore. I’ve found that I must wait about an hour for my rewards to be returned to normal.
Since the latest patch, I’ve attempted to return to my original path, but I’ve still been hitting the event cap anyway, and have mostly given up on karma farming until this is changed.
(edited by Strill.2591)
There’s definitely been a disproportionate level of exaggeration on behalf of those who are angry. Some perhaps warranted, but very few have actually gone out and tested the theory and provided results. That’s been my observation so far.
I’ve done plenty of testing. If you’d like me to report on anything specific, just ask.
Personally I’ve enjoyed my time at 80 so far by doing things for fun every now and then.
Please, how do you have fun doing something you have done 30 times while leveling and completing the map 100%?
Also, I am not and will not make a Legendary. The skins are lackluster and certainly do not worth the time spent farming upward to 5m karma depending entirely on your luck.
All the reports of mystic clover successes/failures I’ve read indicate it’s around a 1/3 chance to get a clover, which suggests that you need a total of 1 million karma for a legendary, not 5 million.
If any level 80 wants to try a similar experiment and post their results then please do. Either way I intend to do this experiment again once I am level 80 and post my own results.
I’ve hit the cap every day for the past four days. Let me explain in a bit more detail. The cap is not as gradual as you seem to assume it is. How it works is that if you do somewhere around 8 events/half hour or 16 events/hour (in my experience), your next event will give fewer rewards. The specific event itself is totally irrelevant, only the speed at which you complete events. Once this cap starts, each subsequent event will give fewer and fewer rewards until finally you’re gaining 0.5% of what you would normally get. For example, I usually get 378 karma, but with the penalty in full effect I get 19.
So in other words, you should expect to keep getting full rewards continuously up until the moment you hit the cap, at which point rewards plummet over the next four or five events. Don’t expect slow gradual reduction from the start.
(edited by Strill.2591)
I would really love this. I’ve been stuck for the last few days not being able to do events because I almost invariably hit the cap in less than an hour.
I’ve hit the cap every day for the last 5 days. If you want to hit the cap you should aim for around 16 events per hour regardless of which ones they are.
Ive just hit the limit in CS, I can understand it…ish, What i want to know is, How long does it take to reset going back to normal?
This should be well documented! I was about too use a karma buff and would have been wasted!
This everything in this game is grind, but you are not allowed too grind.
It takes about an hour to reset from my experience.
So what’s this cap business about? I did four events within 30 minutes of eachother (In Malchor’s Leap; Break the drake eggs, Kill the Drake Mother, Stop the Inquest from siphoning, and kill the pyrite golems) and I received the regular reward for each of them. Is it just on repeating events per day?
Four events isn’t enough to trigger the cap. Based on my experience hitting the cap for the last few days, I’d estimate that it triggers if you complete more than 16 events per hour, or perhaps 8 events per half hour. That’s completely doable without repeating anything if you know where events are. For example, in Cursed Shore there’s 11 events all in one spot in the northwest, which is how I hit the cap in 24 minutes several days ago.
(edited by Strill.2591)
I’d be surprised if it was only in higher levels. But it really feels like to hit the DR you have to be monotonously repeating the same things over and over without variation or breaks lol. I’ll be watching all my reward stuffs closely for the next few days just to see if any of these complaints hold any weight, then I may agree and complain also. xD
But even then I probably won’t. DE’s are easily the simplest and fastest way to get EXP and Karma compared to.. anything, quite often also mats. I don’t feel it’s unfair to add DR to them if they’ve been repeatedly spammed in a short amount of time. I don’t feel 20-30 minutes is too long a wait for it to reset back to normal. I do feel odd this being one of the few complaint threads where I’ve jumped on the band wagon and then changed my mind.
Monotonously completing the same things won’t do it fast enough. You need to complete events quickly, not repeatedly.
Get rid of the constant diminishing returns throughout the game!
in Suggestions
Posted by: Strill.2591
I’d love to hear from an actual ANet rep about all of this. No game company could EVER be so stupid as to shut down rewards for ALL EVENTS in the ENTIRE game world. Everything I’ve heard says that diminishing returns happen ONLY when you are farming the same event over and over. If you say it diminishes zone to zone, event to event, then prove it with video evidence. If you can’t do that, then stop complaining and play the game as it was meant to be played. And if you can’t do that, find another game to play.
I don’t have any video software, but I could take a few screenshots right now of me getting 19 karma from events in any place you like. Would that be enough?
I was hugely hyped to farm 1 million karma for a legendary, but now that I can’t do events without constantly being afraid of hitting the cap (and still hitting it anyway.), I’m not interested in doing anything else in this game.
If you’re trying to gain rewards, they become harder and harder to obtain by continuously doing any particular aspect of the game. So, we can say that if you’re playing to max out your rewards, Anet has put (and is still working on) – basically – kind of cap on how much reward you can get in GW2 ( at least for doing the same kind of thing over and over at a sitting). This serves both the design philosophy and helps diminish the profitability of botting.
I see people spouting this nonsense over and over and over again when it’s completely untrue. The Dynamic Event cap has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with repeating ANYTHING. I’ve hit it in 25 minutes without repeating a single event. All it cares about is how FAST you do events. Furthermore, once it triggers, it doesn’t penalize the rewards from one event, it penalizes reward from EVERY event in the entire world!
Ironically the only way to get around this is to do exactly what you say it discourages – sit and farm the same event over and over. The event will trigger rarely enough that you never hit the cap.
(edited by Strill.2591)
So how long do I have to wait before I can actually get normal rewards from DE’s? I’ve waited a lot longer than 20 mins not doing anything and still got the same reward. This cant be right, surely?!?
If you do it again you have to start waiting again. Lately it seems like you have to wait at least an hour to be sure.
So how long do I have to wait before I can actually get normal rewards from DE’s? I just did 3 and got low karma/xp and 6 coins for each one. 6 coins is laughable. I cant help that these events happen so fast after each other that it hits the DR. I’m being penalised for playing the game how its meant to be played
Anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. It’s hard to tell because if you try again too soon the timer resets and you have to start waiting again.
Get rid of the constant diminishing returns throughout the game!
in Suggestions
Posted by: Strill.2591
Get your facts straight.
The dynamic event cap affects ALL events in EVERY zone and has NOTHING to do with repeating the same event. It’s completely possible to hit the cap without repeating a single event.
Furthermore, you can’t gather any loot to salvage if you’re loot capped.
WvW is a terrible way to get karma if you’re not capping everything on the map. Farming the same event over and over again gives far better karma rates and is also a safe way to AVOID the DE cap. (Yes, you are SAFE from the cap if you spam the same event over and over.)
I used to sit around farming the same events over and over. I NEVER hit the cap. Once I went out into the world and found a part of the map with tons of events, I hit the cap in 25 mins. Exploration is DISCOURAGED with this system. I’m willing to do events anywhere, but as it is, the only thing I can do safely is sit in the same spot farming the same event over and over.
Almost everything you’ve said has been factually incorrect. Try reading before you respond or assume.
(edited by Strill.2591)
The Dynamic Event cap applies to ALL events everywhere. You can’t switch maps.
Get rid of the constant diminishing returns throughout the game!
in Suggestions
Posted by: Strill.2591
ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.
I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.
You CAN’T work for any high-end rewards because there’s no place left to get them from! If you want a legendary, you need 800,000 karma. The dynamic event cap puts a stop to that. If you want fancy gear skins you need money for the mystic forge. The loot cap puts a stop to that. If you want dungeon sets you have to run dungeons. The dungeon diminishing returns means you need money to run then which you can’t get because of the loot cap.
Please do tell me what I should do. I’ve got 100% world completion. I’ve got 500 Badges of Honor from WvW. I’ve got 500 Ascalonian Tears from AC explorable. I’ve done every jumping puzzle. However, I still need 800,000 karma for a legendary weapon. Where do you suppose I should go to get that huh? “Do the whole game”? I’ve DONE the whole game and I want to do Dynamic events.
Get your facts straight before you lecture people.
Did Anet even announce this adjustment anywhere in any of their patch notes? From what I’ve gathered reading these threads, this is a recent change, but I haven’t seen any official word about when it was implemented, how exactly it’s supposed to work, or the devs’ rationale for implementing it (although the common assumption seems to be that it’s an anti-botting measure).
My main is only lvl 43 and I haven’t been paying too much attention to the specific amounts of xp, karma, and coin I receive at the end of DEs. Mostly I’ve just been participating in events for fun, using found-gear with occasional TP purchases, assuming that I would spend these rewards at higher levels. Had it not been for all these complaints, I doubt I would have even noticed this issue, so it’s really bothering me that I can’t find anything from any Anet source about it.
It’s not a recent change. It’s been around for quite a while, it’s just that the recent patch seems to have made it more strict, so more people have noticed it.
Absolutely love this suggestion. I really want the Honor of the Waves gear, but I can’t find any groups willing to do it, and with how much of a repetitive boring drudge the story mode was, I can’t blame them.
Victus, you’re completely wrong. I farmed the same DEs for five hours at a time over 20 hours and never got hit with any DR. It was only when I went out to explore and found a few event chains close together that I got hit with DR.
It’s the SPEED at which you complete events that affects diminishing returns, NOT the variety. You can easily hit the cap without ever repeating a single event.
OP, I’m sorry but it’s still not viable. There are only two enemy types at level 80. You can’t base diminishing returns on enemy type.
Making tokens universal is just going to create a Justice Points system which in turn makes gear easier to get. When you can run the easiest dungeon to get Arah loot that is also another way of asking for easy mode.
Read what he said. the idea is that each dungeon has tokens for a specific equipment slot.
i.e. Sorrow’s embrace = Gloves
Twilight Arbor = Hat
Ascalon Catacombs = Boots
Arah = Chest
That way people would have to run EVERY dungeon to get a full set of gear no matter which gear it was. This would encourage people to play together and prevent people from farming the easiest dungeon.
Why is this a bad thing? If it sells for under what the materials cost, then buy the bag outright. Its going to be cheaper. Else, don’t expect a profit off an item that everyone is expected to have at one time or another and doesn’t need anymore. They may have purchased a bag already for more than the material prices, then picked up a 15 slot bag and had no use for the old ones. Trying to make a quick buck they sell on the TP for a cheap price. Bags aren’t account bound, so their is going to be some high turnover. Use it then get rid of it.
As the game goes on, more and more bags will be created, but no bags will be destroyed. Once players want to get rid of bags, they’ll just go up on the market. Eventually the market will be flooded with worthless bags because there’s nowhere else for them to go.
OP is dead-on. These traits do the exact same thing that the old attribute system did- force you to only use certain weapons and ignore others.
@ Strill
These bots must have been tuned down to not be affected by diminishing returns, but this is fine. The counter measures are not meant to prevent botting they are meant to make it less profitable. Also, the DE DR is in there for players to so that they can’t make too much money off of some mistake.
Arenanet will ban the bots that are currently ruining Orr for everyone and other zones. The banning is the other part of this system
No you misunderstand me. You don’t need to tune the bots at all to avoid the DE cap. Right now bots sit in town all day farming the same town defense event. Because those events happen so infrequently, the bots will never reach the dynamic event cap. I know because I spent plenty of time farming those same events myself without ever hitting the cap.
In order for a bot to hit the cap it would need to go out into the world and find other dynamic events. I know of no such bot that can do that.
I find it hard to understand how you can call dynamic events a “mistake”. For example, here’s a list of events just in a small part of cursed shore:
NORTHWEST CURSED SHORE:
Escort Rattan
4x Escort Explorer Plix
Escort Packheart
2x Arena of Balthazar
Killl Champion Drake Broodmother
Kill Champion Abomination
Defend R&D Camp from Tar Elementals
Total: 11 events
If a player completes all of these events as they are alerted to them, they are almost certainly going to reach the dynamic event cap. No bot could accomplish this, and it’s totally unreasonable to punish players for playing the game. After all, if the devs thought 11 events were too many, why did they put all of them in the same spot? Heck this isn’t even including the eastern town defense events which you’re also alerted to from that area.
(edited by Strill.2591)
For the love of all that is good in the land, plz shut up vendors!
in Crafting
Posted by: Strill.2591
C.)
The NPC in the trading post building in Lion’s Arch who complains about prices to a nearby skritt. I don’t mind the conversation, I just wish it would occur less frequently the more times it repeated in the same area.
I’m probably a minority on this one, but same goes with the two sylvari talking about Caithe at Caer Shadowfane in Cursed Shore. I got a portable mystic forge so I spend a lot of time at the Caer Shadowfane trading post, and that conversation gets annoying the 10th time I hear it.
I don’t think your conversations need to occur less frequently all the time, just occur less frequently if the player has been near them for a while.
Strill,
My guess would be that there are more factors involved to a fix than even the ones mentioned. It’s disingenuous to assert that the developers are unaware of the situations/criteria that you point out. Time, obviously, will tell.
I’m just speaking from experience. I spent 5 hours a day for four days farming the same six events over and over again. I never hit the DE cap. It was only when I went out to explore and find more events that I discovered the cap.
Right now people are making bags, but those bags are never being destroyed. Whenever someone replaces a bag they just resell it. Even now the market is saturated with bags selling below their material costs. John Smith, please fix this!
I’ve hit the cap after completing about 15 events in 25 minutes, and from completing around 19 events in 45 minutes. Those aren’t exact amounts, just rough estimates.
@Strill
The rate at which bots gain gold IS important. It affects the profitability of the companies that use them for gold generation.
You didn’t read my post at all. I said the bots are completing events far SLOWER than players, and that they are NEVER affected by the Dynamic Event cap.
Diminishing returns on loot is based on mob type (i.e. Destroyer, Risen, Icebrood, etc…) Since the only two level 80 enemy types are Icebrood and Risen, you’re pretty much screwed here. If you do get hit by the cap you have to go to an area with different monster types and farm them instead.
Diminishing returns on karma events is based on speed. It has nothing to do with which events you complete, where you complete them, or whether you repeat the same event. So if you want to avoid it, just sit in the same town all day and farm one event over and over. That one event will never activate fast enough to trigger the cap. If you want to trigger it, do lots of events in a short span of time. For example, you could go explore the northwest corner of Cursed Shore and complete all 11 events that trigger in that area, or you could do the Grenth or Melandru temple events which trigger four events in rapid succession. Unfortunately we don’t have any specific numbers on how the cap works.
From what I’ve seen, the timeout for the DE cap is anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. It’s hard to tell because if you try to come back too early, the timer just resets itself and you have to start waiting all over again.
Hearts have nothing to do with the Dynamic Event cap.
And yes, I feel the same way as you. I can’t do any DEs without constantly worrying that I’m doing too many.
@Jnaathra
Not exactly sure what you are getting at. These are anti-botting techniques. They make botting more difficult and expensive. Not impossible. The teleporting bots will be banned as soon as Arenanet nails down the script to remove them from the game all at once.
But they don’t make it any more difficult for bots. The DE penalty is based on speed, not persistence. For example, there’s 11 dynamic events in the northwest corner of cursed shore, and it’s very possible to participate in all of them over 25 minutes. But if you do that, you’ll almost certainly hit the dynamic event cap.
There aren’t any bots that run around to every event and farm karma. Bots just sit in one spot and wait for town defense events. The only ones who can possibly be affected by the DE cap are players, not bots.
Get rid of the constant diminishing returns throughout the game!
in Suggestions
Posted by: Strill.2591
The trigger for diminishing returns isn’t very high at all actually. And it just started yesterday.
I’m not even going to touch what you said about exotics.
It didn’t just start yesterday. It may have been altered to be more strict yesterday, but I was hitting it well before then.
this encourages people to move around the world…it makes perfect sense and i think it should remain. however, it needs to apply the endgame content where people crowd around to grind.
players must get rewarded for traveling around the world, for example dragon boss drops should equal the rewards found in Orr. this is how u get people out and about
It works exactly the OPPOSITE to how you describe it. People who crowd around one event and grind it all day never hit the cap because they aren’t completing events fast enough. People going out and finding lots of event chains which they complete in rapid succession DO get hit by it because they’re doing events too fast.
This system encourages you to AVOID exploration as much as possible.
Dynamic events are magnificent, especially dynamic event chains. There’s just something neat about trooping around with an NPC over half the map while you help set up something pretty cool.
I would agree, but with the dynamic event cap that kicks in on areas dense in dynamic events, I’ve found them tense and frustrating because I’m always scared I’ll hit the dynamic event cap and be forced to sit out for an hour until it subsides.
good it stops farmers botters and losers from sitting there doing the same thing over and over where is the fun in that also….go get a life go to another zone do other stuff…quit complaining because you wanna bot….
It doesn’t stop them at all. They don’t kill fast enough to trigger the loot cap and they don’t do dynamic events fast enough to trigger the DE cap. The only ones who could possibly be affected by these caps are legitimate players.
I must not be doing them fast enough, because I’ve been golding a DE about once every 5 minutes, give or take, and I’m constantly getting about 290 Karma every time.
In the northwest corner of cursed shore you can easily get an event once per 3 minutes if you do the events there and head to any town defense events in the east as they trigger on your map. There’s tons of events there but they tend to end quickly so not many people realize how dense the area is, and just sit in town and farm one spot all day.
(edited by Strill.2591)
The DE cap only applies for repeating the same event over and over. Spread out and stop farming the same 2-3 DE’s in Orr.
That’s entirely false. In fact, it’s the complete opposite. A week ago I did the same events over and over, specifically grubs and town defense in Cursed Shore. I never hit the DE cap. But after I went out into the world to find new Dynamic events, I found I was completing them far faster. It was only then that I got hit by the cap. Since then I’ve found so many events to do that I can reach the cap within just 25 minutes without repeating a single event.
The cap is based on how FAST you complete events, not which events, nor on which zone the events are in.
(edited by Strill.2591)
Yep, same with mob killing/looting. Once you do so many it kicks in and the rewards, as shown in their screenshot, become almost laughable. Never have I attempted to play a game where you are punished for trying to play it your own way. We are basically being forced to play it the way someone else thinks we should be. We are limited on how many of a certain mob we can kill before we gain nothing, and we are limited on how many events we can do before we gain nothing.
There’s two separate caps, one for loot and another for dynamic events. I can only assume they’re anti-botting systems but ironically they have no effect on bots because bots can’t farm fast enough to trigger either of them. Only an actual player exploring dynamic events and actively seeking out places to AoE mobs can manage to trigger these caps.
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Here’s a screenshot of the karma cap in action. 19 karma from a level 80 event in Orr.
I want to do Dungeons, but I hit the dungeon cap. I want to do Dynamic events, but I hit the dynamic event cap. I want to farm mobs, but I hit the loot cap. I want to do WvW, but the queues are too long.
If any one of them were available it’d be ok, but there’s nothing left…
No one does it because the enemies have five times too much hp and the whole dungeon is a monotonous snorefest of a hell.
Yeah, it’s absurd. At level 80 in Orr my rewards get reduced from ~360 karma and 1.8 silver down to 19 karma and 9 copper
Screenshot:
http://imgur.com/0JYbd
And the cap system doesn’t care about diversity at all. People sitting at one town defending it all day every time the event comes up never hit the cap because the event takes so long to trigger. People who do event chains or go out and explore the world are the ones who get hit by this.
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2. All events in Cursed Shore are in their “final event” stage. Everyone wears their “+magic find” items and just spam AoE at the “defend waypoint” event. No one ventures out of the waypoints. Why would you? All the events have been completed.
That’s not true. There’s tons of events in the northwest, but if people were to farm those they’d quickly reach the dynamic event cap and get their rewards removed.