Guild Wars 2

Cush.4063:

It’s the fact that it’s a lot more difficult to apply direct damage than conditions as well as the fact that you can spec defensively with it.

Well not necessarily. If you run Melandru+Lemongrass a lot of those durations are really short. Plus all of the other condition removal you can pack. That is what I want to see. A full PVT with Melandru+Lemongrass VS a CVT with whatever food they want.

I’m not convinced the CVT set will win.

killahmayne.9518:

For power builds you need the precision and crit damage. You just aren’t viable without it.

Well it remains to be seen. I would not be surprised if a PVT with good condition removal can beat a CVT.

People should not assume that more stat combinations provide ‘more variety’ or ‘more balance’.

You have variety if more than one stat combination is viable. If ANET were to add Dire to PvP then guess what, there are more combinations available but now only one combo is actually viable = everyone would run Dire.

WvW is no where near as balanced as PvP either. People think that they have different, ‘viable’ builds in WvW due to the additional stats and food but in reality there is still only one optimal build for each class. And that is because you can max it with food.

Full PVT vs Full Dire is a pretty fair comparison.

Does anyone have any solid numbers on those two?

Of course PVT would be better for PvD and Zerg…

Yeh would be good. The pet probably needs to be within range to take the damage.

TurtleDragon.3108:

This post is filled with bias and ignorance towards the ranger class.

Rangers are only bad in Record Run environments, and min-max dungeon tours. Outside of those, a well-played meta ranger easily contributes enough to the group to be worth bringing, but the issue is too many people think they’re playing in that type of environment.

If your bringing rez skills then you’re not in that type of environment. If you’re not running compositions like 1 warrior, 2 eles 1 thief + 1 other then you’re not in that type of environment. If you’re PUG-ing, then you’re also not min maxing and should not expect to find players that are full ascended zerker geared, use 2 food buffs and stacking sigils.

I hate the average bearbow just as much as you do, but well-played rangers are an amazing asset to most teams in the game.

I thought the record cof run contained a frost spirit ranger?

Great idea! 15 char

Will the new system mean that we can no longer transmute to gain runes/sigils?

I’m thinking specifically about runes of melandru. Its currently cheaper to buy karma armour and transmute these to your wvw armour than buy them outright.

If we can longer do this the cost of these runes will sky rocket

This is actually going to suck for Karma Armors.

I often buy melandru armor with karma and then transmute the runes to my WvW chars because its cheaper than buying the runes outright.

The cost of melandru runes is going to go through the roof it you can’t do this anymore.

Has anyone ever suggested applying the AOE limit to pets and spirits too?

Seems like the simplest solution to rangers’ zerg problems.

I don’t want open world dueling. I want a random area, either in PvP or WvW that gives some sort of rewards/ranking.

For me there is no reason to do it if I don’t know the rank/ability of my opponent. If I beat a random no-body, so what.

But if I’m rank 1000 and I beat someone ranked 900, fantastic, I’ve achieved something.

Should make balancing easier as well.

Great discussion, I hope something comes from it.

Sword 2 is used in place of GS 3 by anyone with condition builds. That is your escape right there. The process is to evade backwards, then do an about face and leap away. Its almost as good as GS3, and probably better for escaping since the first skill is an evade.

Regen builds typically also carry some way of applying the regen boon, either through the Guard skill (requiring 30 points in nature magic) or dwayna runes.

Just running SotW on its own is not enough passive regen.

petespri.6548:

Only thing that is OP is skills that have BOTH Stability AND Stun Break, IMO.

No one would equip a skill that only removes a stun and not an immob.

Jocksy.3415:

Sube Dai.8496:

Kilger.5490:

Honestly, I wouldnt expect good healing type abilities directly in power lines like marksmanship or skirmish. If you build full dps you shouldnt expect to get good healing/cleansing, its all about compromise.

So only condition bunkers should have condition removal?

hmmmm
Reading skills?
Where did he state that?
he stated : If you build full dps you shouldnt expect to get good healing/cleansing, its all about compromise
We do have one condi cleanse that does not need traiting… (called a signet, in case you didn’t know… one that works untraited, yes…)
so, damage build do have access to condis cleanse…

It is just logical that defensive builds have more defensive abilities, and offensive builds, more offensive abilities…

Wouldn’t be called offensive or defensive, otherwise, would they?

You can gear for offensive via conditions and defense via toughness/regen in the same build.

You can’t do that for power.

Kilger.5490:

Sube Dai.8496:

But we still have to invest 30 in a non-power line, ie. Marks or Skirmishing. As well as 10 in Wilderness for the Survival skill CD.

x/x/30/10/x is probably still better than x/x/10/30/x

This does absolutely nothing for power. Needed to be in Marks or Skirmishing…

We need to be able to go 30/30/x/x/x and survive.

I hear what you are saying, but its better than in wilderness where the condition damage does nothing at all for power. The extra buff duration benefits things like RAO and that warhorn buff which helps my power build, and extra health is always good.

Honestly, I wouldnt expect good healing type abilities directly in power lines like marksmanship or skirmish. If you build full dps you shouldnt expect to get good healing/cleansing, its all about compromise.

So only condition bunkers should have condition removal?

@OP Stability became a lot weaker when Immobilize became a condition. Its fine IMO.

Jocksy.3415:

EB is useless in bus, given that the pet is almost always dead; I was also running bark skin, and was relying on Melandru Runes and allies to manage conditions.
Going in that line means an almost 50% uptime warhorn boost, and the 7% vita to power – which I couldn’t fit in my previous build.

I understand why they didn’t put it in EB (toughness/condition line). It makes sense to me for it to be in boons duration line.
And, though it’s not really the case here, I find it nice that they mix attack/defense in different lines…
As stated elsewhere, noone forces anyone to take the new traits / unlock them / change their builds…

EB is bugged and still removes conditions when the pet is dead. It has always been that way, but is getting fixed apparently.

Remember also that running EB allows you the utilities of your choice. The nm trait means you must take two survival skills, so its no use to a signet build.

Kilger.5490:

“Survival of the fittest” isnt better than empathic bond, but it is good because it gives us build options. For starters power builds can get out of the wilderness line where condition damage was doing nothing for them.

Martial mastery is looking kind of lost in that line too, hoping they move it.

But we still have to invest 30 in a non-power line, ie. Marks or Skirmishing. As well as 10 in Wilderness for the Survival skill CD.

x/x/30/10/x is probably still better than x/x/10/30/x

This does absolutely nothing for power. Needed to be in Marks or Skirmishing…

We need to be able to go 30/30/x/x/x and survive.

@op I have been wondering the same thing. Seems foolish.

Basically the HP pools have not been balanced in line with all other changes to classes.

Warriors should have had theirs nerfed when they got active condition removal.

Necro’s should be forced to sacrifice more HP for their utility skills.

Ele’s probably need a bit more.

Everyone else is fine.

As others have said this looks like it adds more options for x/x/30/30/x, and does absolutely nothing for 30/30/x/x/x.

We probably needed the NS trait in Skirmishing…

How much condition removal would you actually need?

I’ve only ever used EB+SoR+Melandru+Lemongrass so I don’t know how much I would need given active removal.

Would you still need to run Melandru+Lemongrass with it?

Forzani.2584:

Silly question, but, what’s the big deal about piercing arrows? I ask from a WvW point of view. I have never used it because it doesn’t add any help to what I am trying to accomplish.

Its one of the few forms of AOE available to Rangers. Not as good as say grenades, but best we’ve got after traps.

So for camp flipping and Zergs its quite valuable.

jcbroe.4329:

HOWEVER, survival of the fittest is great, and creates a lot of build diversity within builds that aren’t spirits/traps/active spirits, like power builds that previously took Empathic Bond for cleansing, and of course our Beastmaster based builds that now don’t have to kill that pet they are empowering with Empathic Bond.

Not sure about that. It looks hard to take enough damage or enough toughness if you go 30 points into NM.

I waste all my money on transmutation stones…

Forzani.2584:

Good points about switching traits before a fight.

I’m actually quite annoyed about that change. Having to change build immediately before a fight sounds like uneccessary micro management.

I don’t think the sustained damage model can be made to work in anything more than 1v1.

So how is it supposed to work – Thief does 15k damage on a 20 second cooldown, and ranger does 15k damage over 20 seconds?

Think of 2 rangers vs 2 thieves. The thieves can focus and effectively one shot one of the rangers making it a 2v1 straight away. They might be on CD but the ranger is not going to kill both of them in that time.

IMO every class should have burst.

Berk.8561:

Swell, now I need to choose which three of these trains I can’t take from the Marksmanship tree if I want to play an effective longbow Ranger (yes, I know that’s an oxymoron):

Spotter
Piercing Arrows
Eagle Eye
Read the Wind
Signet of the Beastmaster (not archery-related, but essential if you want to use sigils)

The only way they could make this worse is to move Quickdraw under Marksmanship, too. (Yes, making me chose between Signet of the Beastmaster & Read the Wind is a legitimate trade-off choice but that still leaves two bow-related traits I can’t take — I get the message, build a trap melee ranger instead of a bow ranger).

Correction, you can only take two of those. The good stuff starts at master and above

Harper.4173:

Bombsaway.7198:

I think reasonable people can look at what a class was at launch, how it progressed and why, and see that warriors were (or should or both you) (you pick if you must) designed around being the offense but lower defense melee character of the guardian/warrior set. They clearly, originally, were intended to have lower healing and condition removal. But when that turned out to be too much of a handicap, changes were made. Hence, the intention was and should be to have the class return to less defense. ANET, in making warriors playable, went too far.

Warriors were improved against conditions in an effort to shift the meta from tank condi spam to something else.
The meta has not really shifted – with people just complaining right now.

The problem is that in order to deal direct damage you have to have 3 stats : Power, precision and critical damage. This means you can deal most damage as zerker and as a consequence have little to no resistance.

However – to deal the most condition damage you just need one stat : condition damage – which means you can now stack up on vitality and toughness on top of that and there you go – the condi meta is born.

This has to be fixed somehow – maybe buffing the warrior’s condition mitigation wasn’t the answer – but it certainly was something – before these buffs the class was UNPLAYABLE and was the laughing stock of any PVP mode.

The real problem here is how conditions work – and how they’re so easily spammed.
Making warrior weak against conditions again fixes exactly nothing of the core problem.

They didn’t need their condition removal and their passive healing buffed. The healing signet buff was just mind baffling right from the start.

Chrispy.5641:

blud.8174:

Shirk.6421:

To be honest, if the rest of the traits we get new are like that… I mean, what the actual kitten. A grandmaster trait for something that should already work from the beginning? You don’t even need to dodge, simple sidestepping and you’re safe… For what does the longbow has this much range if it won’t work. Welcome to the ranger. When I look at the mesmer’s one, I’d like to puke. "The new trait for mesmers allows them to gain additional benefit when disrupting enemy skills. Power Block will be introduced to the Domination line and will change the recharge of an interrupted skill from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. "

This! I was beginning to think I was crazy because this is so baffling.

This feels like I’m getting hustled. Like I just bought a new vacuum cleaner that only turns on half the time and when I call customer support they say, “We have a fix for it, but in order to receive it, we need you to send us your favorite pet kitten.”

At least make the thing a major trait. It would only make sense if they really buffed longbow’s damage because as it is, my autoattack pales in comparison to other classes’ autoattacks.

The most frustrating thing is that they could have discussed this in the CDI and received feedback or something (because I really wonder if any of the balance team seriously plays ranger enough to have an idea of what the player who mains ranger experiences.)

You guys do know that in Guild Wars 1, it was difficult to hit someone at max. range with a bow in that game too. That’s why skills like read the wind in that game existed. It was Anet’s mistake for not giving that option from the start in GW2, but other than that…. why in the actual kitten do you think it should be different in this game?

Because the ranger is weak. Exceptionally weak. Especially with a bow. If rangers were the only class that was able to reliably hit people from range then good. Maybe they would be worth taking then!

Did any of the 3324 posts in the CDI suggest this change?

This is a joke. A merged Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, and Quickdraw would be worth a grandmaster trait…for both bows. Not this crap.

Man it is so freaking frustrating…every single patch…

Giving everyone the same thing negates the need for different classes.

dietzero.3514:

If it is actually June, I am just going to quit the game.

My sentiments exactly.

How long is season 2, 6-7 weeks? Pretty sure you’re going to lose me to ESO in that time…

You wasted too much time on LS anet…

I didn’t play nightfall or eotn until like a year after each one had been released…

Then again, the gw1 story was so much better.

I don’t feel like I missed anything with LS. But as others have said, I don’t think the game has gained anything either.

I’d prefer 1v1 arena first.

Warriors are heavy. Heavy should mean slow…

I would prefer if Dolyaks had their supply capacity greatly increased, rather than their HP.

You want to be able to solo them if the map is empty. Likewise if there are people on the map they need an incentive to protect them = increase their supply capacity.

Decrypter.1785:

@ the op Plzz dont put spvp > wvw No just No spvp is bottom tier of the game !

Not true, sPvP gets the most attention when it comes to class balance!

I think its a good idea.

I think apoth regen bunker is the best for 1v1.

Or maybe even shortbow traps.

Any power build won’t have the necessary condition removal/toughness/vitality.

Death to all non-humans!

@OP as for dying quickly – because of the extra stat points available in WvW (due to food, bloodlust, Applied Fortitude, guard leech, Ascended gear) you need to have more toughness/vitality than you do in PvP.

I believe the best starting point for wvw is still with soldier gear (PVT). And then you can mix in more damage as you get comfortable.

As others have said as well, you will most likely get outnumbered at some point, in which case you want to have a stunbreak, active condition removal, and some sort of gap closer to get away.

Guild controlled objectives could also be used as a proxy for guild halls, with access to guild exclusive merchants, etc.

Substance E.4852:

Chrispy.5641:

afoot.6932:

Arghore.8340:

…or add spirits to pets (which I personally don’t like at all, but that’s some other discussion)…

Please, elaborate. The potential change to spirits is the topic I’m most interested in at this point.

What the Dev had written::

PvX
General:

1. Remove spirits. They clutter up the map and provide less strategic value with target changes.
   1. Instead, apply an aura to the pet that does the same thing spirits currently do.
      1. Obviously, this would be a huge rework and would require changes to spirit traits.

I personally don’t see how that could be balanced at all.

In all likelihood it means we give up the spirit active or we are limited to 1 spirit at a time per pet.

Something that would make us much better for pve/wvw zergs but would probably be very bad for spvp. A split would be best but I’m assuming they are looking for any reason to gut spirit bunkers at this point anyway.

Anything that buffs the pet, and only the pet, is a massive fail. People hate that our damage is separated, regardless of how much you can buff it.

And removing party support to buff 30% of our damage = epic epic fail.

I don’t know why they are even in the game…the cost of ascended weapons is in the t1-6 mats, not the ascended stuff…

@op they are not valuable. They have 0 value since they can’t be sold.

Moral of the story – even with hacks the ranger still lost :P

pza.8024:

I’d sum this up
problem: running for a long time is boring, but eventually necessary to make siege tactics possible (arguable though)

solution: make running more interesting by having something to do on the way
possible methods:

• caravans could randomly be attacked by npcs.
• severe reduction of zerging and increased amount of small team roaming so that randoms can quickly find a new Group after dying.
• Make waypoints be contested only when siege is attacking

Personal opinion is that waypoints do offer a good amount of tactical gameplay by being able to quicken the response to an attack. Otherwise wvw would turn into mindless zerging with 20 golems. Also, the ability to respawn in a keep makes attacks on intruders less risky and increases the action and awards during a siege or an attack. Also its more forgiving if a siegebreak attack goes wrong. More than everything else it’s a motivation for every player to contribute actively (by scouting for attacks on own wp or helping an attack against a waypoint-keep), to the effords of a server.

Lack of WPs is one of the reasons I don’t like EOTM.

Spear/shield RaO build was awesome in gw1