Let’s apply that to history and see if it works, shall we?
The Bosnian genocide wasn’t as bad as the Rwandan genocide, therefore the Bosnian genocide must be a good thing.
Good logic, eh?
I think you missed the point at no point did I say GW2 is good or perfect. In my original post I said basically stated that the grind is not that horrible as everyone here is making it sound.
No, you missed the point.
Just because A isn’t as bad as B, doesn’t mean A is good or necessary or should be condoned through silence.
Your really still missing the point. If i wanted silence of it I would have made a forum called “Shut up about RNG and grinding already”. I also did not say GW2 was good either. RNG and Grind however based on how the economy works is necessary to ensure a healthier economy. I am not going to repeat myself again here so just read the posts where I explained economics.
That doesn’t solve the issue. One of my questions of name one mmorpg that has better RNG and grind is not meant to be a one word answer. You must explain why you think that way as it leads to a healthier discussion.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
I know I referred to them before. There are the mini’s you can get with grinding temporary achievements. Not really in the world but half you could say. Wasn’t it for the fact that it are temporary achievements then those where fine. Making it temporary and so a grind makes them just as bad not to say even worse because of the time-pressure.
And there are now about 4 ingame. Tequatl, The new worm world boss, a dungeon and I think one can drop in Southsun (not 100% sure).
The bosses have there own problem (spawning once in every two hours and being to much depended on just random people there doing the same event) but lets for a moment act like they solve that problem.
Then there are about four really mini’s ingame. However the whole collecting of mini’s has already been destroyed. No way you can still get a full or almost full collection because you likely missed out on some (the temporary ones, being it in the cash-shop or in achievements) and even if you didn’t miss any so far except for those 4 the rest are a grind.
So sadly those 4 aren’t fun anymore because Anet sucked the fun out of collecting mini’s.
If it was the other way around (4 out of the game the rest in-game) I would have been fine with it.
several in southsun i think 3. So you have 6 out of it. Anet needs to make money some how as a large portion of the money goes to NCsoft. Your concerned over minis but you should be happy that they actually put in minis that you can find cause since launch they were gem store exclusive.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Well congratulations on starting an opinion based topic that anyone who’s played the game can easily see as ridiculous. MMOs are largely about the loot. You’ve asked a few times when trying to make you opinion sound like fact for someone to name a game that has less grind and better RNG than GW2, so I’ll answer…. World of Warcraft. I left WoW 3 years ago but I played it non stop from beta until I left. If you want something in WoW you can get it by killing mob X or by running dungeon Y until you get it, this goes for anything you want. In GW2 let’s say I try to farm lodestones, I may get 1 or 10 or none since its RNG, and until DR kicks in even though I may not have had even ONE drop. And there is no way to guarantee a precursor drop, I’ve never had one in all of my time in game, and I’ve played hard since beta.
So killing Mob X over and over is still RNG and no different from GW2 as the killing does not gurantee that desired result. Same with Dungeon Y. Both have RNG. So whats your point in stating it has the exact same type of RNG as GW2? There is no way to guarantee a drop from what you just said about WoW either since its still under RNG. Precursors as stated above are not set into a location due to their availability to everyone (expect PVP). Only difference between GW2 RNG and WoW RNG that you stated so far is WoW has rare items set to locations where as GW2 does not.
This means there is higher access to this object than in WoW. Since there is higher access to it they countered it by placing it under a lower value to keep its economic value higher. If it was guaranteed the weapon essentially would be worthless and common which in turn makes legendaries lower in value in comparison to other exotics that are harder to acquire.
Your response indicates that either you did not or cannot comprehend what I wrote, or that you no experience with WoW, at all, which why you dare claim that resources are more accessible in this game than in that one. Very funny.
Do you know what accessibility is? In WoW it is true that certain armour and weapons exist in certain locations. Which means it has low accessibility. Since there is only one way to get that gear. Higher accessibility means there are more ways to get that gear. GW2 dungeon armour has low accessibility. Precursors in GW2 have a high accessibility but extremely low availability due to their drop rates being low but can be found in all parts of the game.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
The grind most people are upset about aren’t the visual grinds. I’m pretty sure you know that by now… In fact most of the “visual” grinds aren’t very bad at all. Dungeon sets, T3 cultural, etc all of these are fairly easy to grind out. But when you need 250 each of several t6 mats, this and that, AND your best route is to buy them, and it’s to progress VERTICALLY (not horizontally for looks) and in no realistic way could you do it without either buying gold or (less efficiently) farm the gold… That’s the problem. Grinding for ever for visuals, be my guest. For the most part I’d probably skip out on it, but I wouldn’t mind it existing. But these kind of farms to be competitive/on the same playing field as others, it starts to push the boundary of pay to win.
Why would it be worse for vertically then for horizontal? Like if a gold-grind suddenly becomes more fun when it’s horizontal.
The only reason YOU personally don’t mind that is because you don’t care about those items.
“Grinding for ever for visuals, be my guest. For the most part I’d probably skip out on it, but I wouldn’t mind it existing.”
So when complaining about your game-play please also don’t forget about others people game-play.
It’s just as bad horizontal as vertical it just depends on the persons game-play if it hurts him.
I agree the grinding is bad, really across the board. But it’s more acceptable to have longer term goals when they don’t hinder basic game play (ie making you less of a competitive player). But like I said, honestly most of the “purely visual” grinds in this game already aren’t that bad… It’s almost entirely Ascended armor/Legendary that takes grinding to a whole new level, which IS (I’m agreeing with you) waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long even for just visual grinds… But also, incredibly too long for the sake of a vertical progression specifically. I won’t take back that grinding for visuals taking a bit longer than vertical isn’t bad nor uncommon. That’s one of the many ways to increase the “value” of horizontal progression armor, by making it more exclusive/harder to get. But in the case of GW2, yes, it’s WAY too much. At this point, 1.5 years into the game, pretty much everyone should have been able to gotten a legendary weapon without ever spending a single dime or gold, just by playing the game. And in turn, new stuff should have come out, for more NEW things to grind for (albeit much much SMALLER grinds/farms/goals, what ever you want to call it). The time it takes to get ascended items and legendary items is beyond decent design, but I still firmly believe it is a money-grab.
Nice that we seem to agree on the most part but you say “But it’s more acceptable to have longer term goals when they don’t hinder basic game play” you really have to rethink that.
It hinders basic game-play when you are into the combat. But some people are into collecting those skins or mini’s that is there game-play. So as much as the vertical stuff hinders your game-play that horizontal grind hinders others peoples game-play.
“But like I said, honestly most of the “purely visual” grinds in this game already aren’t that bad…" With this one you are referring to dungeon sets and so I guess. And thats true those aren’t that bad. At the same time I also don’t think they are fun. Doing dungeons to get tokens to buy it is not my type of game-play but indeed they are not that hard. 20 runs or so to get a complete set? Thats en perceptible farm.
However think of the mini examples I gave Suddenflame. If you like to go in to the world to collect mini’s thats not really possible (they are not in the world) and as far as you get get them it’s an never ending gold grind. Some others are in temporary achievements what does not make it any better, that makes it “get it now or never get it.. and there go’s your collection” same for some of them in the cash-shop and then 2 weeks later again, and then again and again and… well you get the point.
“but I still firmly believe it is a money-grab.”
Yes, all that is thats where my dislike for the cash-shop focus comes from.
Just to point out there are minis that exist in the world and only in the world.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Well congratulations on starting an opinion based topic that anyone who’s played the game can easily see as ridiculous. MMOs are largely about the loot. You’ve asked a few times when trying to make you opinion sound like fact for someone to name a game that has less grind and better RNG than GW2, so I’ll answer…. World of Warcraft. I left WoW 3 years ago but I played it non stop from beta until I left. If you want something in WoW you can get it by killing mob X or by running dungeon Y until you get it, this goes for anything you want. In GW2 let’s say I try to farm lodestones, I may get 1 or 10 or none since its RNG, and until DR kicks in even though I may not have had even ONE drop. And there is no way to guarantee a precursor drop, I’ve never had one in all of my time in game, and I’ve played hard since beta.
So killing Mob X over and over is still RNG and no different from GW2 as the killing does not gurantee that desired result. Same with Dungeon Y. Both have RNG. So whats your point in stating it has the exact same type of RNG as GW2? There is no way to guarantee a drop from what you just said about WoW either since its still under RNG. Precursors as stated above are not set into a location due to their availability to everyone (expect PVP). Only difference between GW2 RNG and WoW RNG that you stated so far is WoW has rare items set to locations where as GW2 does not.
This means there is higher access to this object than in WoW. Since there is higher access to it they countered it by placing it under a lower value to keep its economic value higher. If it was guaranteed the weapon essentially would be worthless and common which in turn makes legendaries lower in value in comparison to other exotics that are harder to acquire.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
your point was that many smaller people are selling a small amount at a time. Evidence to the contrary however as when you look at the TP there are only a few sellers at each price point but selling in a massive quantity. There is thousands of people generating materials but very little are selling them but yet there is individuals are selling them in a massive quantity. So either those people with a massive supply are trading post flippers or are farming the materials.
Most of them use fast sell at market orders, so you can look at the orderbook of a highly liquid asset like mats all you want. You will have zero idea as to how many people are selling and how many mats each one is selling.
In terms of sell orders, there may be a volume of 20k at one price, that is not all one guy, you have no way of telling just how many people are in at that price range. Although it is much easier to know in thin markets.
Thousands of players are selling small amounts of mats each and every day, a much smaller number are flipping in bulk.
Actually it tells you how many people are at that price range lol! It also tells you how many buyers at a price range. You need to have another look at the TP cause it does tell you how many sellers at a certain price range and quantity in that price range.
But your right on your first part as if they sell fast I can not see them unless they exist when I opened the trading post to that page when they are up. I also do not know how many are being sold to the buy orders.
No, it doesn’t. It lists price and volume, it does not state how many unique sellers comprise that volume, nor what fraction of said volume each seller takes up.
Regardless, as you agree, the fast sell option means that whilst you might not see specific evidence of it in the orderbook. There are indeed masses of players shifting small amounts of mats.
mmmmm I have to check this when I get home cause I swear i could see number of people selling and quantity on mine……. mmmmmm interesting indeed.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
That fragmentation would be true for the way GW1’s expansions work. For expansions like you can expect them in GW2 thats not so much true. Yes a new continent might not be accessible for a part of the community but thats all. They can still play the same game and can play together in most of the world, it are not separate games like GW1 expansions. That also why you never hear this complain by any other MMO developers.. I never did at least.
The type of fragmentation you would have is not more then what the overflow-system or WvW (in stead of open PvP) now creates.
What they said (or I hear them say) is that they would not make expansions the way they did in GW1 because there it fragmented the player-base. Before release however they did say they would for sure make expansions and everybody was expecting that until about 6 months after release they suddenly said that the game might never get an expansions.
Thats the actual story. They way you tell it is how many fanboys (not saying you are one.. maybe they told you) are now trying to defend the idea that GW2 might never get an expansion.
“Unless you can think of a way for them to generate revenue without them selling boxed expansions and not using the cash shop this is how their business model is going to work.”
I am saying they should sell expansion to generate the money.
“Anet stated long ago that cosmetics will be a grind to get.” No they never said “oow we have this great game without grind. Except for mini’s and skins and other fun things, that will be a boring grind”. No they never said anything close to that.
“What they defined as casuals are people who just log in to complete the daily or have 30mins to 1hr to play each day.” A casual gamer might indeed play less hours but at the same time he might also do other things ingame. The the one does not excludes the other. Funny enough, if time ingame was the only reason then they still failed with the temporary available rewards and achievements.
“With that definition in mind would that person care about digital pixels that they can only see 1hr at most each day (or less)?” Why not? If thats what they like. Isn’t one of the main goals here nice looking pixels (the legendary weapon)? What in my opinion proofs they did also refer to people who like that sort of stuff as casual players.
Actually Colin in one of his forum posts back in the beta forums (I remember clearly reading it) where he said they don’t want grinding for vertical progression but don’t mind grind for cosmetic items. If i can find that post I will link it.
Expansions have been in limbo from the beginning as I keep reading different views of different Anet employees on the same subject (which is probably why they stopped posting as much).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
To everyone complaining about Random Number Generator (RNG) and grind in Guild Wars 2 (GW2): You guys need to play more Massively Multiplayer Online Roly Playing Games (MMORPG). Lets take a Free-to-Play (FTP) game such as Forsaken World (FW) for instance. To get any where in the game you need certain items to progress. The RNG in that game is so bad that many people use the in-game botting system to farm the items that they need. Basically meaning your character needs to be logged in for days on end (24/7) just to get items that you need.
World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.
Perfect World (PW) is similar to FW (made by the same company) but has even worse grind and drop rates to the point you have to kill monsters for hours or even days just to get items for a single quest. You basically sit there for hours killing a specific mob in a specific area for hours to months (depends on how lucky you are) just hoping you will get that one item.
In GW2, precursors are pretty common as evidence by the number of people with legendaries in LA. Also, money is easy to obtain in GW2 where as in WoW, FW, and PW money takes forever to obtain. WoW, FW, and PW require you to grind for long periods of time inorder to obtain enough money to buy anything useful.
So if you want to complain go ahead, but I suggest you play Forsaken World and Perfect World first and make the comparison. By saying GW2 is grindy or has terrible RNG makes most MMOs look like bloody nightmare. By saying GW2 is grindy or has terrible RNG you are making a comparison of a form. If you want to say GW2 is grindy which MMORPG has less grind? Which MMORPG has better RNG?
WoW, FW, and PW are worse on these two points so if your making a comparison with these games you are insane! Just for your information I have never gotten a precursor in 1500+ hours of playing Guild Wars 2.
No. No. Just no. A thousand no’s. I’ve played WoW. I’ve played Forsaken World. I’ve played Perfect World. I’ve played the grindiest of the grindiest games. I’ve practically played almost every MMO out there except for some of the lesser-known Chinese farming games.
Let me tell you right now, Guild Wars 2 has THE absolute worst RNG in any MMORPG EVER. Guild Wars 2 is not as grindy as most MMO’s, but the RNG in GW2 is unbelievably terrible. I would rather have Wow’s RNG system. I would rather have Perfect World’s RNG system (even though it is pretty bad, GW2’s is still worse).
Over 90% of my life has been dealing with MMORPG’s and games in general. You cannot convince me that Guild Wars 2 actually has decent RNG.
Ok really you played FW and claiming its better? Have you even tried in FW to gather some materials to make high grade potions and armour? Like really? The drop rate on one of the items to make accessories is even lower than Teq ascended weapon drop. On top of that there is RNG on your crafting! So you need to make over 1000 items (which requires 3 of that one item so you need 3000 of them) just to make an item worth selling or using. Like dude you did not even look at the RNG in FW did you? There is RNG every where in that game. You apparently did 0 crafting in FW which means you hardly even made it past noob stage. PW is even worse than FW on every point.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
I do care about which one I get and I know FOTM now has the highest general drop for them (not specific ones.. so then in a way it again becomes a gold grind.. grind FOTM for lodestones and sell the ones you don’t want to buy the ones you want) but then still it’s doing a lot of FOTM before you get what you need.
And it’s not like I don’t want to do a lot of work to get an item (that makes an item more special) that I need but as I said I don’t like grinding currency to get an item and you might see how needing 100 or 250 of a specific lodestones turns that lodestone also into a form of currency.
So when it comes to mats (where you need many of) it should be easier to farm them imho. Like what happened with some mats in the past and then Anet patched it out.
But farming a specific item (also if you need that 1 item to create something.. so like mats but then you only need 1) I don’t mind if it’s very hard and to get it. However when collecting a whole bunch of it.. being it gold or lodestone that is just not fun for me many many of the people complaining here.
If it’s one item every time you know that item may drop. So every time there is this feeling of “will it drop now?!”. You might be lucky and get it the first go or unlucky and need many more then runs that the average but every time there is that feeling.
Thats what makes it fun and epic when you get it.
When grinding gold or mats then when it finally drops or you get the gold there is only the feeling of “ok 99 more to go.. pfff” and when you then finally create the item you want it might be partly “epic” but also partly “nice to be done with that”.
LOL I forgot to mention my other goal of making the triforge pendant completely from materials I gathered. I have every part (including the stones) expect for the dust (the dust man that dust!). Lodestones wouldn’t be hard to gather from FOTM (just would take time). I think its other parts of it that would be worse to get. If you enjoy FOTM then its a good thing if you don’t well its a long term goal. So basically you don’t need all 250 lodestones tomorrow but can gather and collect them over a prolonged period of time.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
The grind most people are upset about aren’t the visual grinds. I’m pretty sure you know that by now… In fact most of the “visual” grinds aren’t very bad at all. Dungeon sets, T3 cultural, etc all of these are fairly easy to grind out. But when you need 250 each of several t6 mats, this and that, AND your best route is to buy them, and it’s to progress VERTICALLY (not horizontally for looks) and in no realistic way could you do it without either buying gold or (less efficiently) farm the gold… That’s the problem. Grinding for ever for visuals, be my guest. For the most part I’d probably skip out on it, but I wouldn’t mind it existing. But these kind of farms to be competitive/on the same playing field as others, it starts to push the boundary of pay to win.
That I am aware of which is why I stated to Devata that I am talking about Weapons and Armour grind (vertical progression) rather than horizontal. Mind you there is people who are complaining about how rare Teq weapons are and how they want it set at like 30% chance drop rate lol.
Most of the “grind” for ascended can not be bought with gems so its far from pay to win. Like I stated before I have enough materials to make a set of ascended armour for one my characters if I wanted to at this point of time. Also as stated before competitiveness in this game especially is a chosen view. A person of higher skill will beat a person of lower skill and skill is hard to determine especially when it comes to unbalanced gameplay in WvW.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Can you now imagine that some (more ‘RPG’) people like that sort of stuff? Collecting mini’s, going for a specific skin doing all that sort of stuff.
And didn’t Anet say GW2 was a good for casual gamers and is it so wrong to think that this is especially something the casual gamer do (collecting mini’s and so on)?
Can you then also see that for those people everything is a big boring grind?
I agree that we did know they had many mini’s in the game during the beta and I did say in the beta-forums that they should have less. Back then it was impossible to know they ONLY had the mini’s in the cash-shop. Also the fact that this was already the case during Beta does not make it any better. You only had access to the beta if you already both the game.
GW had set a big name for itself as a game that generated income with the selling expansions. GW2 was released as a B2P game. Yeah it did have a cash-shop. But at this moment GW2 is much more a micro-transaction based game then a B2P game because it focuses on the cash-shop to generate income. Not on box-sales (including expansions).
I was interested in GW2 mainly because of that B2P and the name they had with GW1. Because I know how micro-transaction based games always hurt the game. Isn’t it P2W then it are these sort of things but it always effects the game in some negative way. So I am very disappointed that GW2 also turned into a micro-transaction based game in stead of a true B2P game. It’s not B2P + micro-transactions where the focus is micro-transactions, not B2P.
Well there is a reason for this focus on the micro-transaction over boxed expansions. The main reasons given by Anet (they have been consistent since before beta about it as well) is that they do not want to fragment the community by releasing expansions. So to generate lost revenue from not selling those expansions (We shall see some major updates in the future I hope that expand the game world) they have to use the cash shop.
Unless you can think of a way for them to generate revenue without them selling boxed expansions and not using the cash shop this is how their business model is going to work.
Anet stated long ago that cosmetics will be a grind to get. What they defined as casuals are people who just log in to complete the daily or have 30mins to 1hr to play each day. With that definition in mind would that person care about digital pixels that they can only see 1hr at most each day (or less)?
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
your point was that many smaller people are selling a small amount at a time. Evidence to the contrary however as when you look at the TP there are only a few sellers at each price point but selling in a massive quantity. There is thousands of people generating materials but very little are selling them but yet there is individuals are selling them in a massive quantity. So either those people with a massive supply are trading post flippers or are farming the materials.
Most of them use fast sell at market orders, so you can look at the orderbook of a highly liquid asset like mats all you want. You will have zero idea as to how many people are selling and how many mats each one is selling.
In terms of sell orders, there may be a volume of 20k at one price, that is not all one guy, you have no way of telling just how many people are in at that price range. Although it is much easier to know in thin markets.
Thousands of players are selling small amounts of mats each and every day, a much smaller number are flipping in bulk.
Actually it tells you how many people are at that price range lol! It also tells you how many buyers at a price range. You need to have another look at the TP cause it does tell you how many sellers at a certain price range and quantity in that price range.
But your right on your first part as if they sell fast I can not see them unless they exist when I opened the trading post to that page when they are up. I also do not know how many are being sold to the buy orders.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
That only works for lower tier materials.
With normal game-play I managed to get about 3 Charged Lodestone and maybe 15 Charged Core’s. Now with two ingame friend (one being a dungeon runner) sending me there’s as well I have 12 Charged Lodestone and 63 Charged cores. That make a total of 43 Charged Lodestone. If I am correct the minimum you need of them (for a legendary) is 100. I need 250 for what I wanted to make.
Now this is without farming just game-play (and not only mine) because you can’t really farm them. I did google and there is one place where there is a little more change to get them so I did try to farm them there. Problem was that it’s not always possible (depends on some event) and when trying to farm them in about 4 hours total I did get 1 charged core. So while that might have been the best option it’s not really farm-able especially not if you need 100 or 250 of them.
Looking at the other lodestones I have (including 2 cores counting for 1 lodestone) I have about an average of 7. I must say I think I gave some of the Molten Lodestone away and that where the ones most easy to get so lets make it an average of 10. Of normal game-play over a year (been in the game since the beginning but last half year less and less active). So no, you can’t get them with normal game-play and most you also can’t really farm.
The way to then get it is to grind gold and buy them. And that is what I have not been doing.. as can been seen by the low number. Also all the people I know that have legendaries grinded gold to buy the mats they needed. Nobody really got the mats themselves because thats simply not an option.
FOTM has a high rate of Lodestone and core drop rate. If you dont care about which one your getting. Cause in my normal gameplay i gotten more than you just from FOTM.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You do realize most of the T6 materials that exist on the TP is from someone farming it. If no one farmed it and everyone bought it off the TP as you suggest there wouldn’t be a supply to buy.
Farming for them specifically is a terrible waste of time when it is more efficient to “farm generally” or otherwise get the gold and buy them.
There may be lot’s of T6 mats on the TP and they did indeed have to get there from somewhere. But when you have thousands of players playing the game, one or two mats at a time adds up very quickly to the total pool available. Hence there is no need for anyone to specifically target farm them (bots might ofc), in order for there to be said supply on the TP.
I didn’t say they were farmed individually. I just said they were farmed. And no you can see the number of sells at each price point and buyers on the TP. The number of people selling in massive bulks is very little. Such as 1357 of one material but only 3 people selling it at that price. This suggests that their they are buying massive amounts and reselling or someone farmed it and selling it.
Gold ore for instance i sell in bulks of 750 the amount of competition i have is very little as there is very few sellers.
It was pointed out it is not worth farming specifcally for them. I also mentioned that was not required for there to be a ready supply of them on the TP. So your first point is agreeing with me.
As for bulk selling, what exactly are you trying to say? I mentioned that it was perfectly possible for a ready supply of mats to be made available on the TP due to the fact that thousands upon thousands of players are generating said mats via a variety of different sources. There is no need for people to specifically farm for them in order for there to be a supply. Whether or not people bulk sell or flip in no way contradicts that point.
your point was that many smaller people are selling a small amount at a time. Evidence to the contrary however as when you look at the TP there are only a few sellers at each price point but selling in a massive quantity. There is thousands of people generating materials but very little are selling them but yet there is individuals are selling them in a massive quantity. So either those people with a massive supply are trading post flippers or are farming the materials.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Which still makes me wonder why you thought you were the right person to discuss the fairness/design of loot distribution in the first place… >_>:
Actually I am better at it cause I can look at it objectively rather then the subjective view point which is shared among carrot followers. I can sit back and look at how the loot system works, why its designed as it is, and the changes over time to cater to loot minded people. I take a less biased approach to the situation of the fairness and design of the loot as it has little to effect me.
If you want a biased opinion go look at the numerous forums which all complain without even looking at why the system is designed that way. I will admit to flaws in the system and not saying its perfect. What I am saying though is that it is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
The game is designed and advertised a certain way, but the loot minded players are forcing the developers to change the original design. The game was developed so that legendaries would take awhile to make but when people started focusing only on legendaries and none of the other content in the game that’s where the problems started developing.
If you want I can break down what occurred and possible reasons why things where developed as such including ascended.
As has been explained, it’s designed they way it is in order to “encourage” you to use the cash shop? Hmmm, do I want to covert gems to gold and but silk or do I want to farm 250,000 of it? Such a tough choice!
The cash shop only contains utility and cosmetic items. Basically if you want the items its convenient that they allow you to convert gold to gems, but they would rather you use real life money to purchase the items. So no the game is not encouraging you to use the cash shop unless you really want those items (which many of them can be obtained by other means). The Black Lion Chests on the other hand are encouraging you to buy keys (appear to be failing though due to cost and number of them on TP).
The price of silk is players doing not Anet’s. If your going to complain about the price of silk blame the players for placing the price so high. Anet does not set the prices of the items but rather their use inside the game. Silk at one point was the cheapest material in the game and the players wanted a way to use them (to craft more varients of armour was the most common answer given from what I have seen on forums and in game). Anet listened and gave players ascended armour that used a large supply of silk. So to blame for that one is the players in all regards for pricing and for wanting more armour that uses it. Silk was in such abundance that 250,000 silk was nothing.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Well, at least it’s something “to do”, right?
It is something to do but that’s not my reason for doing it.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Which still makes me wonder why you thought you were the right person to discuss the fairness/design of loot distribution in the first place… >_>:
Actually I am better at it cause I can look at it objectively rather then the subjective view point which is shared among carrot followers. I can sit back and look at how the loot system works, why its designed as it is, and the changes over time to cater to loot minded people. I take a less biased approach to the situation of the fairness and design of the loot as it has little to effect me.
If you want a biased opinion go look at the numerous forums which all complain without even looking at why the system is designed that way. I will admit to flaws in the system and not saying its perfect. What I am saying though is that it is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
The game is designed and advertised a certain way, but the loot minded players are forcing the developers to change the original design. The game was developed so that legendaries would take awhile to make but when people started focusing only on legendaries and none of the other content in the game that’s where the problems started developing.
If you want I can break down what occurred and possible reasons why things where developed as such including ascended.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
I feel like the few of you defending the grind know you’re wrong. You’ve stopped arguing over how bad the grind is and now you’re just saying it’s not needed to do “okay”… That’s not the point and having to deal with year i differences does negatively effect the competitive goal Anet set. So… There’s that.
You personally set the competitive goal. Its only competitive if you view it as such. We are defending the grind as we know about a thing called long term goals which seems to fly over your head each time we have said it.
Legendaries are long term goals
Ascended are mid term goals
Exotic is short term goals
Ascended was introduced to bridge the gap between long term and short term. Your kind missing the entire point of each of the goals and thinking that everything must be short term.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
So if I want the Jack-a-lop mini. How do I get in in the game? Because thats what I like to do. Go on a hunt for that mini. That is what I think is fun. So please tell me how do I do that without a need to grind gold? Please enlighten me.
Since the mini can only be found the TP you need gold. Which means you do need to grind for it. This has been known from the start of the game (even in beta we knew as they told us even then) that certain cosmetic items will needed to be grinded to gain them. Minis are one of those items. I can not deny that they are a grind to get as that would be against what Anet said. I am talking more on the weapons and armour tiers. Cosmetic versions of each (such as Teq) will need to be grinded to get his weapons.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
You need to grind out ascended (legendary armor soon!) if you want to be on a level playing field. That’s just a fact and no amount of pretending that statistical advantages don’t exist, will change that.
Statistical advantage exists but level playing field where exactly? PVE? no point being there as it is not competitive. WvW? Not meant to be balanced, and skill still matters more. I seen people with ascended armour and weapons, but they still get pawned. I will focus on gaining skill rather than getting a statistical advantage which in the terms of skill is not as useful. A skilled player will defeat an unskilled one even if at a statistical disadvantage.
Also, who the hell are you competing with? In WvW your not likely working alone and nor is the enemy.
And when you come across people at your skill level but with better gear? Of course no one is claiming that ascended will allow you to kill other players if your skill level is horrible. But you know what? If you’re average it sure as hell helps.
it may help but if your out skilled your just out skilled. Also as people have stated before, skill is not easily measured. In theory it can be this way but in the game it will be impossible to meet a person with the same skill especially in the cluster of WvW. Match making systems even have a hard time matching peoples skills as it is not easy to measure.
In theory, Ascended gives a significant advantage. In practicality it doesn’t matter as much as one would hope for. 10% increase in hp is not enough to stop an attack that is dealing 300 damage (since 10% of most hp is less than 100). A person with better skill well make you miss that 10% increased damage more often than you will be hitting his nonbuffed damage.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
All depends on the skill of each team. If the team of 20 is better at teamwork it doesn’t matter how much armour you have they will kill you. In your case its 5 v 20. If they have equal skill the 20 will still win (statistically speaking even). 20 people could burst down each member 1 by 1 within 5seconds or less. Or able to stun lock them all and AOE them to death in seconds. Your example is horrible for your point.
Also, why are you so concerned about being competitive in WvW when it isn’t necessary? Just makes it funnier when my lvl30 mesmer murders a lvl80 with full ascended (could tell by the unique skin).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
That’s incorrect. Getting ascended armor IS a grind. Just because you chose to not partake in it or care enough to shoot for it until it falls upon you doesn’t make it not a grind. For example you could play a Korean MMO that requires you to kill mobs for 3 years to go from level 1 to max level. You don’t care if you ever hit max, so you just play every once in a while and kill stuff. It’s still a grind, you just don’t so much CARE about reaching the goal. A grind is a grind, whether you are hardcore about it or not.
Like I said earlier my goal is to have full ascended on all 10 of my characters. I have a goal. Where your incorrect is the grind aspect. I do many different things and hardly ever repeat content. At this moment of time I can afford to make 1 set of full ascended armour for my warrior. I choose not to at this time cause I want to gain most of the materials myself without relying on the TP and not farming for them.
Hell the only thing I grind is map completion on my characters but that is wide grind as it encompasses the entire game.
I thought my goal of 40 map completion on 40 character is ridiculous.
But after seeing how high standard you set for yourself(acquiring 250,000 silk without using the TP). It makes me believe my goal is possible. Your my idol!
Yeah, exactly. These numbers are ridiculous. And that’s just one of the materials needed overall..
I said most did not say all. Plus I have a large stock pile of silk. I been stock piling silk for over a year. So 1 year of silk is already in my possession (can’t say how much atm cause i am not at home). There is also other materials needed.
Silk also has the highest salvage rate other than leather in the game. Which means you can get a ton of it from salvaging drops (which FOTM gives a lot of).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
You need to grind out ascended (legendary armor soon!) if you want to be on a level playing field. That’s just a fact and no amount of pretending that statistical advantages don’t exist, will change that.
Statistical advantage exists but level playing field where exactly? PVE? no point being there as it is not competitive. WvW? Not meant to be balanced, and skill still matters more. I seen people with ascended armour and weapons, but they still get pawned. I will focus on gaining skill rather than getting a statistical advantage which in the terms of skill is not as useful. A skilled player will defeat an unskilled one even if at a statistical disadvantage.
Also, who the hell are you competing with? In WvW your not likely working alone and nor is the enemy.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Not sure most other MMORPG’s from what I seen are less alt friendly as they are completely separate.
The main reason why people say GW2 is not alt friendly is due to laurels and how they are account wide. Daily and monthly achievements are also alt unfriendly as in other games they can be repeated by any number of characters.
WvW and Fractal ranks in GW2 will be account-wide soon.
I see the logic. However I’d draw the opposite conclusion from the way it is set up. I can start my dailies on my main and if I log into my alt I can finish them on there – the fact that they’re shared, to me, means they’re friendlier – it’s not doubling up on workload :P
The idea that the reward is given to the one that completes it is where people have the issue. People want the reward per character rather than per account. I agree with you however.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
That’s incorrect. Getting ascended armor IS a grind. Just because you chose to not partake in it or care enough to shoot for it until it falls upon you doesn’t make it not a grind. For example you could play a Korean MMO that requires you to kill mobs for 3 years to go from level 1 to max level. You don’t care if you ever hit max, so you just play every once in a while and kill stuff. It’s still a grind, you just don’t so much CARE about reaching the goal. A grind is a grind, whether you are hardcore about it or not.
Like I said earlier my goal is to have full ascended on all 10 of my characters. I have a goal. Where your incorrect is the grind aspect. I do many different things and hardly ever repeat content. At this moment of time I can afford to make 1 set of full ascended armour for my warrior. I choose not to at this time cause I want to gain most of the materials myself without relying on the TP and not farming for them.
Hell the only thing I grind is map completion on my characters but that is wide grind as it encompasses the entire game.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Not sure most other MMORPG’s from what I seen are less alt friendly as they are completely separate.
The main reason why people say GW2 is not alt friendly is due to laurels and how they are account wide. Daily and monthly achievements are also alt unfriendly as in other games they can be repeated by any number of characters.
WvW and Fractal ranks in GW2 will be account-wide soon.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
…said a glasscannon zerker warrior with largest health pool in heaviest armor
You seem to forget that Zerker gear isn’t exclusive to just Warriors, in fact, some classes have to take Zerker gear just to be efficient or on par with Warriors, lowering them makes em even squishier than others. Warriors would be the least hurt by that change.
This is true, my mesmer, ele and ranger all would be slammed real hard by this.
Updating the other stats will not do much either, the content needs to be designed to deal damage differently.
The horrid mob AI was better in the betas, they “can” do it from a theoretical standpoint, the issue was that the server were not (and I assume still are not) able to handle the extra traffic
Actually the AI is the same from the Beta. The issue here from the beta is that your just have gotten better. The AI hasn’t changed but your skill at the game has changed.
He is talking about earlier betas, where AI design included AoE avoidance
Must be before the betas i got into. I was in the 3 betas before release. There was 2 betas before those 3 that I didn’t get a chance to be in. Anyone able to confirm this?
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You do realize most of the T6 materials that exist on the TP is from someone farming it. If no one farmed it and everyone bought it off the TP as you suggest there wouldn’t be a supply to buy.
Farming for them specifically is a terrible waste of time when it is more efficient to “farm generally” or otherwise get the gold and buy them.
There may be lot’s of T6 mats on the TP and they did indeed have to get there from somewhere. But when you have thousands of players playing the game, one or two mats at a time adds up very quickly to the total pool available. Hence there is no need for anyone to specifically target farm them (bots might ofc), in order for there to be said supply on the TP.
I didn’t say they were farmed individually. I just said they were farmed. And no you can see the number of sells at each price point and buyers on the TP. The number of people selling in massive bulks is very little. Such as 1357 of one material but only 3 people selling it at that price. This suggests that their they are buying massive amounts and reselling or someone farmed it and selling it.
Gold ore for instance i sell in bulks of 750 the amount of competition i have is very little as there is very few sellers.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
…said a glasscannon zerker warrior with largest health pool in heaviest armor
You seem to forget that Zerker gear isn’t exclusive to just Warriors, in fact, some classes have to take Zerker gear just to be efficient or on par with Warriors, lowering them makes em even squishier than others. Warriors would be the least hurt by that change.
This is true, my mesmer, ele and ranger all would be slammed real hard by this.
Updating the other stats will not do much either, the content needs to be designed to deal damage differently.
The horrid mob AI was better in the betas, they “can” do it from a theoretical standpoint, the issue was that the server were not (and I assume still are not) able to handle the extra traffic
Actually the AI is the same from the Beta. The issue here from the beta is that your just have gotten better. The AI hasn’t changed but your skill at the game has changed.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
“In most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally that you get to do and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swong a sword. I swong a sword again. Hey! I swong it again and that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.”
Anet must find their own game horribly boring as what they described as no fun is what most of their game is made of.
They said other games have boring grind and they want to make their game fun.
Do the math:
Grind = boring = no fun
Therefore:
No grind = not boring = fun
Now to say, that there is a bit less grind than in other games is:
A little bit less grind = A little bit less boring = a little bit fun
A really fun game they said…
In Anets defense, the quote you put up looks to me like the context was speaking about combat.
There are 3 truly horrible grinds in this game for me:
1. Spvp rank grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it.
2. WvW title grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it + majority extend to numbers no one will ever reach.
3. Legendary required material grind. Game forces me to farm gold because I can’t realistically farm the materials myself because of dismal drop rates. Sad that it’s easier to just farm gold and be forced to use the TP.
Loot wise…almost every other game I have played have had better loot systems….that includes GW1. Simply put….if I want to farm an item, I go out and farm it. Can’t be done here. Killing in the open world has devolved into champ only kills and not really doing any events cept the metas here and there. I’m finding it hard to gather motivation to pve at all.
Side note: Wish there was a way to grind laurels. Right now I would accept it. They are just tied to too many things that I would use them for.
Long term goal. Not the only game that does this (many games do it this way). If your trying to grind for these titles thinking you can get them within a year, think again. GW1 was the same way so it is not any different here. It took years for anyone to reach the highest rank in GW1.
Long term goal. Mind you I well say I did the math for this one and its impossible to do within the life cycle of the game. It would take over 10 years to get any of the titles unless your able to yaks every 2mins
PVE long term goal. All the materials on the TP have been farmed by someone. Also if you were to play this game for like 3-5yrs you could easily have that many materials plus more for your legendary. Without farming I have over 50% of my legendary completed.
The main issue that I am noticing is your trying to play the game like it won’t exist in a year and trying to force long term goals into a short term schedule which is creating a grind. Hell for 1 and 2 impossible grinds as the time required is impossible to get those titles in a short-term time frame.
Play the game for fun rather than chasing that carrot on the stick. If you play for fun that carrot will get closer, and you won’t be mad at grinding.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Stop thinking it as ‘grinding’. find a way to make gold that u have fun with. for instance I run dungeons (only the ones I like though) for an easy 15-20g/day and am satisfied with that. haven’t jumped on a single train and dont ever plan on it.
But that is not fun for me. I have no fun doing something to get money. I have fun going for a item. That is what I consider fun. And because every item then requires another route I get to do different things all the time. Fun again.
But GW2 simply required a gold-grind. You can’t really go for an item. And if you ,after a patch, are able to farm some mats it gets patched out in a few hours. They don’t want you to farm items or mats because they want you to buy items or gold. When you are having fun playing the game to get to your goal (those items) you are not buying it so they make sure you can’t do that. Sadly there are then enough people foolish enough that they will indeed buy it.
What now happens is that many people dislike to have to grind gold for items so they search for the easiest way. What was CoF P1 and now it are the champ trains. And it keeps them busy but are they having fun? Enough of them are doing it just because they have set the goal of getting that legendary or because they are in the game to talk with there guild-members or simply because they don’t have an alternative game (yet).
But many haven’t fun doing it and thats why you also see so many negative reactions on the forum.
An exploit is an exploit. Anet has added many ways to farm for awhile now and even added locations to farm at during certain LS. Anet does not want people just to play in a single area for all the money, but rather you spread out across the entire world (they still failing at that, but they are working on it).
Anet is not forcing people to play as they do. The goal the developers are wanting the players to do is to have fun. The players on the other hand are forcing their own unfun grind.
Let me ask you this what do the majority of the people do after they get their legendary? Since that was their only goal, and now they have achieved it what do they do?
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Let’s apply that to history and see if it works, shall we?
The Bosnian genocide wasn’t as bad as the Rwandan genocide, therefore the Bosnian genocide must be a good thing.
Good logic, eh?
I think you missed the point at no point did I say GW2 is good or perfect. In my original post I said basically stated that the grind is not that horrible as everyone here is making it sound.
RNG exists in every game and by removing it 100% like people are suggesting would create more problems and would shorten the life-span of the game drastically.
What would you do if everything in the game was guaranteed? If everything you wanted was guaranteed to be given to you by doing X content.
I doubt you would be playing this game in 1 month from now cause you would have obtained every item you wanted, and everyone would have every item.
In a living world if you miss content you can not get it back what should make a game be any different? GW2 is not the only game that bars miniatures (or mounts) behind one time events. Pretty much every game that gives out miniatures or mounts places them behind events that if you miss you can’t get them any more. So if your going to complain about not being able to complete your miniature collection because of this than stop missing events cause its your own fault for missing it.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Farming t6 mats directly is an incredibly inefficient use of time.
Oh and promoting T6 mats can sometimes result in an overall loss. There are spreadsheets out there that calculate promotion profit/loss.
You do realize most of the T6 materials that exist on the TP is from someone farming it. If no one farmed it and everyone bought it off the TP as you suggest there wouldn’t be a supply to buy.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.
Been talking a lot about this in the micro-transactions thread and let me tell you this.
If I want to collect mini’s in GW2 there are 3 main ways.
1 Grinding achievements against the clock because they will be removed within a few weeks.
2 Grinding gold to buy the mini’s from the TP.
3 Buying items or gold (to buy the items) with cash.
If I was to do the same thing in WoW I would do a quest for one mini or create another mini with a craft or do a dungeon (sometimes completing sometimes farming a dungeon) for another mini, or farming a specific type of mobs for yet another mini.
Oow and if you want to grind gold to then buy it from the TP that is in many cases still an option but not required.
I am very sorry to say but if it’s this sort of game-play you like GW2 is the most grindy game out there and no, your WoW example does not require the same amount of grind. It might require some farming but at least you can then farm for one specific item and every item does then require another farm. But here it is almost all gold grind, gold grind, gold grind ,and achievement grinds.
I also have the feeling you are mixing up farming and grinding but to be fair the definition is a little vague.
Main thing to blame. The focus on the micro/transactions because this way they make buying gems to convert to gold much more interesting.
I think your mixing up the terms a bit lol
Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_
Farming is grinding as you are repeating the same process over and over. The Achievement minis are not a grind since you do not repeat the same process over and over. I own a large number of minis without grinding. To get all the minis i will have to farm (aka grind) for it such as mini karka.
Yes and no. The achievements one you could see as not grinding because you need to do different task for every reward / mini. However the problem is that you can’t also just see it as farming because it’s temporary so you pretty much have to do it or miss out on that mini in total, also it’s always a list of achievements you need to do. Meaning your task is really completing that list. Making it a process of engaging in repetitive task, the completion of the achievements.
So in a way it fits maybe in both definitions and in a way it doesn’t fit in any of them. But simply because of the fact that it’s temporary it really feels like a never ending grind. Complete your list of achievements.. oow there is another list.. completed it, there is another list.
But I agree. The achievements one is one you could also define as not grinding.
The other ones are very much a gold-grind.
But like I said, the definition is always a little vague. Because if you want to collect all mini’s (Not in GW2) in many games one mini might require you to simply kill one type of mob many times. So then it might look like a grind but looking over the complete collection every mini requires a different approach meaning it is not so much a grind anymore in total but more farming. In the end everything in an MMORPG requires some repetitive work.
The way I like to define it to make a more clear line between the two is the question if there is a currency in between. If you are not directly working for the item you want but just doing repeating task to get the currency to then buy the item it’s more grinding.
If you are doing repeatable work for the specific item it’s farming because different items require different task.
Then only the question is, what are currencies. Tokens and gold are. But can you see crafting mats as currency’s? and how about achievements?
Normally I would say achievements would be farming because you are pretty much farming for that one item but because it’s temporary it becomes an ongoing repeat that makes me define it as a grind.
I tend to think that farming and grinding are the same thing, but one is positive and the other is negative. Grinding to me is a negative term where as farming is a positive term. Both are used in the same context to display different emotions towards the task.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Earlier post i said No as it is not persistent world.
however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all.
Which D3 doesn’t have either. It only allows 5 people per game (guessing more in PvP not sure havn’t tried that part)
LoL We decided about persistent world. Let’s decide now what is a lot of players If D3 will allow 20 man party will it be MMO ?
Last post in this thread. Was unable to keep out this time.
I would not classify it as a MMO since i dont consider 20 to be Massively. If they allowed 100+ on a single server I would consider it. (much like Diablo 2). The way Diablo 3 was designed was drastically different from Diablo 2 it would need massive changes to allow it to be a MMORPG.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.
Been talking a lot about this in the micro-transactions thread and let me tell you this.
If I want to collect mini’s in GW2 there are 3 main ways.
1 Grinding achievements against the clock because they will be removed within a few weeks.
2 Grinding gold to buy the mini’s from the TP.
3 Buying items or gold (to buy the items) with cash.
If I was to do the same thing in WoW I would do a quest for one mini or create another mini with a craft or do a dungeon (sometimes completing sometimes farming a dungeon) for another mini, or farming a specific type of mobs for yet another mini.
Oow and if you want to grind gold to then buy it from the TP that is in many cases still an option but not required.
I am very sorry to say but if it’s this sort of game-play you like GW2 is the most grindy game out there and no, your WoW example does not require the same amount of grind. It might require some farming but at least you can then farm for one specific item and every item does then require another farm. But here it is almost all gold grind, gold grind, gold grind ,and achievement grinds.
I also have the feeling you are mixing up farming and grinding but to be fair the definition is a little vague.
Main thing to blame. The focus on the micro/transactions because this way they make buying gems to convert to gold much more interesting.
I think your mixing up the terms a bit lol
Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_
Farming is grinding as you are repeating the same process over and over. The Achievement minis are not a grind since you do not repeat the same process over and over. I own a large number of minis without grinding. To get all the minis i will have to farm (aka grind) for it such as mini karka.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Incorrect. The reward is completely necessary when going from Exotic to Ascended if you play wvw.
It is not necessary. A person in masterwork armour could pawn a person in exotic armour as it has been done many times before. You apparently do not play WvW enough. There is hardly any instance that your on par with someone else skill level. In WvW your more likely to be part of the zerg therefore your rank of armour will have very little effect on the whole. Also, WvW is competitive Server vs. server not person vs. person level.
I hate this argument. It’s terrible. Basically, someone asserts that all things being equal ascended gear gives an advantage in WvW and you state that all things are never equal.
In reality, you can’t argue that doing damage is important in WvW and that doing more damage is better than doing less damage. Having more toughness is better than having less toughness. Etc…
Of course, Ascended gear isn’t the only factor in individual success in WvW. Skill and numbers play a role. But it’s disingenuous (and frankly undermines credibility) to claim its not a factor.
Sure its an increase I am not denying its an increase but I am stating that its overall effect is minor enough that skill plays are larger role in this game. The only place it would have mattered doesn’t even use the same armour which is PvP. In WvW the goal is camps, towers, keeps, and the castle which are usually taken in groups. In a group teamwork and individual skill matter far more than what each person is wearing. If an entire group has full ascended great but they could get stomped on by a group with better teamwork.
Edit: If everything is equal (which in this game is near impossible) then yes the person has an advantage. At this point in the game there is enough people using ascended weapons, legendary weapons, and ascended armour to know that their overall effect is minor at best. I stopped counting how many warriors I have killed with Twilight with my pure exotics Ranger just because the difference in skill.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Again. I was telling about BiS stat wise. Read initial post. Even Legendary is BiS in general I wasn’t talking about it. I noted “stat wise”.
I’m not telling you to learn economy or any other things. I’m not measuring your professional integrity here. Okay ? That’s why I was trying to not touch your background. Just don’t teach others.
I’m waiting for the results of CDI thread. That’s why I’m on the forums. And I have right for it. Hope you will not tell me to learn law now.
Law is also good to learn. But as I stated they haven’t diverted from what they advertised as you suggest cause they never said anything about BiS gear changing (as they also believed back in Nov. 2012 that they could raise the level cap as well not sure if they think that now though).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
The RNG is a necessity of the MMORPG, and it is even more a necessity in Guild Wars 2.
If they had come out with a game that says “Go and do [insert task here] for a guaranteed [insert reward here],” then some players would either complain that they have gotten everything they needed too quickly and there is nothing left to do, or some players would say that they don’t want to get their reward in that manner and they want to play their way.
The RNG is what allows us to play our way and still get rewarded. It is a necessary evil.
I don’t find the RNG a grind, since it allows me the chance at the reward I want by playing the way I want to play.
Its not about the grind. Its how long each grind is. They could have added smaller grinds and added more armor sets (with actual stats) in permanent content instead of some wings in content every 2 weeks. I’m sure people would be much happier with 5-10% drop rates on final bosses and new perma-instances every 6-8 weeks instead of some meh stuff every 2-4 weeks. I mean… I can almost bet money on it… I think they don’t add as much ingame armor because the more they do that, the less likely people are going to be to buy gem armors, hurting sales.
So basically based on this you ware wanting everyone to walk around at this moment of time with a legendary weapon by increasing the odds of precursors by a huge amount. Precursors are rare for they are needed to make legendaries and if they were common there would be more people with the legendaries at this point of time. Whats the point of having a legendary if everyone else has the same?
I do agree however they do need more armour sets, weapon sets, and stat combinations. Their current setup requires more combinations and update in this regard. Saddly it is also the hardest as all sets of armour have to look good on all races (which Charr make difficult to make for).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
The RNG is a necessity of the MMORPG, and it is even more a necessity in Guild Wars 2.
If they had come out with a game that says “Go and do [insert task here] for a guaranteed [insert reward here],” then some players would either complain that they have gotten everything they needed too quickly and there is nothing left to do, or some players would say that they don’t want to get their reward in that manner and they want to play their way.
The RNG is what allows us to play our way and still get rewarded. It is a necessary evil.
I don’t find the RNG a grind, since it allows me the chance at the reward I want by playing the way I want to play.
Agreed. Without RNG there would be no real point in this game or any MMORPG for that instance. All MMORPGs that I know of use RNG in one form or another to control loot to prevent rare items from being common.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.1 Many games have at least one persistent world, however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.
From Wikipedia
Pretty much as I stated as its online and persistent.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
Go play some train simulator. You will get enough economy there. I’m asking for what I was advertised. Don’t teach others what to do and you will not hear where to go.
For a person claiming to have an economics major, your lacking professional integrity and business sense. Also, you probably didn’t read the terms and conditions when you bought this game (or before you bought this game) which states that it is subject to changes. As a business person you should have known this clause. Also, your complaining about grind which you haven’t stated which part of grinding.
In the advertisements it did not state that you did not need to grind for BiS gear or cosmetics. If you really did your research you would have known that they stated there should be a grind for cosmetics they never mentioned about BiS gear expect that Legendary should be a long term goal. It stated that you did not need to grind for levels. It did state however there wouldn’t be a gear treadmill, and there isn’t one. They added ascended, but they are not adding more also with Legendary being BiS permanently there is no gear treadmill as well.
So far they have kept with their advertisements. What is the problem other than you interpreting the meaning wrong?
I was telling BiS stat wise. Read plz. It was exotics, not legendary.
Economy was one of my masters, I’m not a business person, I’m software developer. Initially was developing banking software. I don’t think you are able to measure integrity anyway. Professional. In the MMO.
I know it’s a subject to change and it’s ok. I’m not logging in anymore. I got enough fun for money spent. Just sad they are ruining such a great game instead of improving.
Also I don’t like somebody is trying to teach me something without any context and knowledge.
You know nothing of my background. So your not logging any more but you come to troll the forums still that shows more of your unwanted character development. Legendary is BiS even before Ascended, Legendary is BiS which was tied with Exotics back than but now they are tied with Ascended so they are still BiS.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
What is MMO RPG ? Is Diablo 3 MMO RPG ? It has online community, crappy RMAH they are finally getting rid of, party play. Or it’s an MMO APRG ? What’s the difference ? Why drop rates are different ? Why they are improving drop rates after removing RMAH ? How ppl will survive without RMAH ?
Diablo 3 is not an MMORPG. Its more of an MRPG. If you look up MMO it qualifies by having a persistent world meaning by logging off and back on it still remains (I am amazed I have define an entire genre). Diablo 3 the world is not persistent therefore it is not an MMO. Drop rates vary game to game on design decisions. Diablo 3 economy very early was infected with hyper inflation which destroyed the economy which then lead to changes in drop rates to try to fix (took them over 10 updates) that issue.
The RMAH was what the game was balanced around and was leading to many issues. People will survive playing that game by using the old methods of dropping armour on the ground more than likely when trading.
To make a game from an RPG to MMORPG you need to make it persistent and allowing players to interact (aka: chat, party, guilds, etc.). These functions do not change gameplay unless the designer wants them to. There can exist an MMORPG without a method of trading, but I bet people would be kittened off about that. As soon as you allow trading an economy will be created as evidence GW1.
GW1 had a limited trading system (stronger than GW2 person to person trading), and it created an economy that didn’t exist before. Items had prices and were subject to inflation and deflation (black dye & white dye).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
If D3 will allow 20 man party will it be MMO ?