Guild Wars 2

I welcome the new era of higher offense too. I was a long time critic of the extreme bunkers. However, I’m also a critic of the extreme burst. Neither of them are fun to play against.

What ANet needs is a reminder that we don’t want the insta-death meta either.

Ele Of Yo.6253:

Well, I might be wrong, but considering you can get 100% crit chance easilly and as to quote “At level 80, every 15 points of ferocity adds 1% to the character’s critical damage”, its more than 10% dmg at 100% crit chance, which with air being mostly active in pve, it is. As for pvp, it doesnt make much of a change, considering overal it will only be a 8% dmg-ish on full offensive specs…-ish. Only my 2 cents, might be wrong tho :p

The thing is, you must convert your power to precision to get that 100% crit change. That 1% damage increase is a trade-off for having much lower raw power to multiply on.

Most people gloss over the 20% Aura nerf too. It’s pretty significant.

It’s very slow. We didn’t have any guild team match for 2 weeks and we couldn’t fall out of top 25.

It’s 10% damage buff that lasts 5s. You can’t get the Overload damage there, so it’s actually not that big of a buff. Also, you only get the most out of it if you cap your crit. I’m glad that at least there is a buff for glass ele though.

DanBenzAMG.2649:

Senario.2038:

DanBenzAMG.2649:

Btw my ele lvl 26. Should I go back play lvl 61 Necro, lvl 31 warrior or lvl 11 engineer?

Play what you enjoy, but keep in mind that the future of Ele in PvP as always looks grim. This time possibly more grim.

I like ele a lot I just came back and play about a week and I heard about this….poor me lol

PvE Ele are still pretty good. But if you want to get into PvP, probably Reaper will be a better choice. It’s decent for this patch and very good for next patch since the main counter is gone.

Drayos.8759:

well no, u dont actually know if ur prediction was or was not correct til the actual Patch notes realistically go live, they still have another 11 Days to show something different or to fail.

Lets atleast wait it out before we assume its going to be awful, we might not be the Worst proffession, there are other proffessions getting Nerfed, the Cele Removal will have a Impact on the proffession ofcourse, but it doesnt mean the death of the proffession.. aslong as they buff the Elementalist to be Strong at something.

Okay, point taken. Let’s wait 11 days; however, I don’t have a lot of high hope as long as Karl is still in charge of Ele, lol.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Lordrosicky.5813:

He cant know that at all. Pure speculation and very narrow minded imo. Anet have tested and have metrics. I trust them

Not sure if serious.

He’s a known troll, don’t waste your time with him

Yup, boons/conditions duration (like 5-10%) would be great

reikken.4961:

sage

power
cond damage
healing
health
and ele’s unique access to perma protection serves as your armor

If you take this, you better just play Marauder. Healing power is not that effective if you have 0 toughness. Also, Ele heal skills scale very badly with healing power. You better spend that 1000 stats on DPS.

P.S: just to throw some number out there:
Wash the Pain Away
Berzerker (0 healing power): first heal 3560
Cleric (1200 healing power): first heal 3920

Izanagi.9830:

just do it…….i am tired getting matched with useless players out of my skill range.

They already did remove it. You get matched not by MMR, but your League ranking.

Now that Celestial stats is removed in PvP, can we buff it a bit in PvE? It doesn’t need to be as strong as Zerker/Viper meta, but at least make it less bad. We don’t have to worry about affecting PvP anymore.

Dawdler.8521:

Azel.4786:

- Diamond Skin: nerfed to be a 1 condi removed on 1s internal cooldown, but only active as long as above 75% health. [Aka, condi builds will really trash you fast]

1v1 vs anything other than a necro dumping all the condis, this sound more like a buff.

You forget condi Rev/Mesmer/Ranger, all of them can put a load of condis on you that can’t be cleansed one by one.

We can’t ask for petition to rotate Karl out of Ele on the forums since that’s not allowed. What can we do then?

Josh Davis.6015:

WatcherJason.2678:

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

That’s a potential risk, but that’s also why we’re putting these changes in weeks before the next PvP League season. If we get an early indication that things aren’t going the way we want them to we’ll have time to make any needed changes.

I wish to raise the bolded point below again. We don’t want the meta to shift to an insta kill burst from Thief/Reaper/Mesmer. Both extreme burst and extreme bunkers are bad for the game.

Tenets for a fun/not boring to watch games:

• 1v1 should never last more than 3 minutes
• 1v2 should never last for more than 1 minute
• 1v3 should die as soon as invul/block wear off.
• burst should never kill another class in less than 5s.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-needs-to-be-fun-to-play-watch/first

Alekt.5803:

Scepter complaining when they got a whooping 250 ferocity on swapping to air attunement. Seriously guys?

You’re being ignorance at best and dishonest at worst.

That buff helps Staff and Dagger too.

Azukas.1426:

Typical over reaction from the ele players.

Remember how tempest was the worst elite ever?? How’d that turn out? June 23rd patch? Again how’d that turn out? In fact how about release when ele was “Oh so under powered”? I’ll answer how that turned out…DD ele build got discovered.

Tempest is still one of the worst Elites. Remember what Ele was before Tempest. It’s Bunker. Remember what Ele was after the patch? It’s even more Bunker.

People said it’s the worst Elite not because it’s bad, but because it offers no new playstyle, while pigeonholed Ele even further into Bunker. People saw the nerf coming for Bunker Ele and wanted a more balanced class.

It’s a freaking Tempest, the focus should be on damage and CC, not bunking. Defense should be built into weapon set instead of putting all the eggs in the Traits/utilities basket. Ele was forced to go Arcana/Water/Cantrips before because if they didn’t take those, they would die in a few seconds. Ele was forced to take Tempest and DS because they would also die in a few seconds otherwise.

The build diversity of Ele is terrible, and Tempest added nothing to it, only made it even worse. That’s why it was rated one of the worst Elite spec at launch.

Axialbloom.8109:

Xillllix.3485:

That’s a long list of scepter improvements.

Like… ahh whatever… it feels so useless to give feedback at this point.

Pretty much. It seems someone at Anet is OBSESSED with Shatterstone, and thinks it is the only sceptre skill.

Karl is in charge of Ele. He’s also the least PvP dev we have. We need to have a dev who play PvP to be in charge of Ele or else they may not even know Scepter exists.

PierPiero.9142:

don’t warry cele ele will be OP …

Cele Amulet is gone in case you’re not aware.

Alekt.5803:

Sunshine.5014:

If you are new to Ele, I suggest you invest your time else where, like Engi/Druid. Ele is about to get nerfed. And if it’s anything like the history of 3 years, we will be nerfed to the bottom class, and it will take at least 6 months for Ele to be viable again.

Lets wait to see new Diamond Skin.

My prediction was correct xD. Now we gotta enjoy the bottom class Ele for 6 months before they buff it over the top again.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Sunshine.5014:

It’s a big nerf. Now Reaper can condi bomb the Ele right away with 5+ conditions. As a Reaper, I can easily put in 2000 burn tick, 2000 poison tick, chill and other stuffs. Most of the skills apply more than 1 conditions.

That doesnt even count the corrupt boons buff and Scepter auto attack converts boons.

Reaper will be a hard counter to Ele next patch.

P.S: and that doesn’t even count the removal of Celestial amulet. Ele is done for next patch, so stop the QQ lol

Removing the celestial amulet also hurts Reapers as well as every bunker.

Once again the meta will shift into a very speedy, bursty meta that focuses around the battle of invincibility cooldowns.

Lol. Reaper doesn’t need Cele anymore now that Ele is gone. Pop shroud and kill everyone with your Carrion.

DeWolfe.2174:

There’s 13 different conditions available that an Ele won’t be immune to any longer. This will hurt the offensive capability of builds with a narrow availability of condition types. Though this will help builds with a wider array of conditions or from multiple attackers with dissimilar condition availability.

Chill will wreck Ele hard (now that the Alacrity counter for chill is also nerfed).

I warned about this before haha. Ele was pigeonholed into bunker because the lack of stats (lowest HP + armor) and lack of active meaningful defense on weapons. Fire Aura on focus as a defensive skill??!? People will keep attacking you like nothing happens.

Glass Ele is too team dependent. It dies instantly to focus fire as soon as the long cooldown Invul goes away. Look at the buff for Thief. It will make sure Glass Ele will be non existent next meta.

People have been complaining about Bunker Ele, so Glass Ele never got the right buff (Arcane/Glyph?). Now that the bunker build gets nerfed hard, I wonder if ANet ever tests how it would work out for Ele? xD

My next few weeks will be spent dueling with Thief. The goal is to learn how to survive long enough so my team can come and rez me xD.

It’s a big nerf. Now Reaper can condi bomb the Ele right away with 5+ conditions. As a Reaper, I can easily put in 2000 burn tick, 2000 poison tick, chill and other stuffs. Most of the skills apply more than 1 conditions.

That doesnt even count the corrupt boons buff and Scepter auto attack converts boons.

Reaper will be a hard counter to Ele next patch.

P.S: and that doesn’t even count the removal of Celestial amulet. Ele is done for next patch, so stop the QQ lol

Bitty.1409:

Axialbloom.8109:

Sceptre, not fresh air.

Scepter is nothing without fresh air, imo.

That’s the thing. We need to make Scepter viable without Fresh Air. If we tie the weapon to a trait line, then it kills so much build variety.

Instead of starting with 2 supply, make it so that it requires 2 supply to spawn 2 DBs. Archer still takes 1 supply.

Reason: it stops the early rush meta while encouraging people to kill each other to steal the early game supply.

Without the early supply, you will just see perma stab team rushing mid with a portal to channel and no fighting at all.

Stop the QQ, they already announced a patch for 1/26.

You don’t have to kill them on the point.

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Sunshine.5014:

As a Mesmer/Thief, you can’t interrupt a 5 seconds channel overload?

Its not 1vs1 i talk about here. Its in group PvP mostly, and you cant target that ele all the time, when that rev or necro is on you etc. And since things should be balanced around group PvP, I think my concern is valid!

Lol, when people lose 1v1, they complain “PvP should be balanced around 1v1. My Thief can’t win a burn guard”.

When they lose a team fight (despite having a Mesmer spam alacrity/quickness/CC), they complain “PvP should be balanced around group play”.

I don’t think any decent Mesmer has a hard time interrupt the Overload channel with their multiple AoE CCs. You don’t even need to aim. Just throw the AoE covering the point. It is even pulsing.

As a Mesmer/Thief, you can’t interrupt a 5 seconds channel overload?

That would be fun haha. 2v2 Ele + Reaper will be so imba.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Unranked Arena. I seen 4 people unable to kill 1 bruiser tempest. Once i played against team with 3 of those. They all ran together and didn’t die even once. Why they can heal themselves so much and still do more damage than most other classes?

It’s unranked. I only play unranked when I play my weaker build or experimenting something crazy (like a bleed oriented Ele). It’s quite possible the 4 you saw are either new or playing bad build. In Legendary division, Ele will have big trouble 1v2, and will die instantly in 1v4.

Browrain.7346:

Yw for helping you get there on your last game. No but really, gz

I know he didn’t get there soloq but with the help of a team. What I was wondering is how to survive if your team isn’t all godlike. There are too many counter like Rev and Thief you need a good teammate around to insta-rez you.

Yep, respect. I played glass staff up until Ruby but after that Power Rev just eats me for breakfast with their 5s teleport.

For your +1 play style, you need to have reliable teammates to cover the capture point. Do you think without teammates, it is possible?

Any nerf/buff for Glass Staff Ele?

How will you survive if a Rev targets you? Or do you rely on teammates for that?

Do you hold point, or just go roam +1? If roam, how do you survive against CC?

Thanks!

If you are new to Ele, I suggest you invest your time else where, like Engi/Druid. Ele is about to get nerfed. And if it’s anything like the history of 3 years, we will be nerfed to the bottom class, and it will take at least 6 months for Ele to be viable again.

Hi all, the dev is considering a balance patch, let’s make sure we can use this opportunity to help improve Ele build diversity and buff bad traits/weapons. Search for your old suggestions and post it back here

Let me start:

• Arcane skills must have more synergy. Arcane shield should have 30s cooldown.
• Glyph should give more defensive benefits, or else it will never get picked over Shouts/Cantrips. One of the Glyphs can be a teleport skill.
• Signet need more synergy with trait. Maybe give an aura depends on the Signet. Increase cooldown if needed.
• All Shouts need to be instant cast.
• More Stability options. Ele is the easiest class right now to get locked down under CC.

Weapon

• Scepter auto attack needs a huge buff
• Churning Earth should have an option to detonate early
• More defensive options built into the weapon skills.
• Staff is too clunky and slow. The limit test is this: buff it until you can have a chance to kill a bad Rev 1v1.

The autoattack cast time is too long, without any good benefits. The damage is too low calling it wet noodles is actually an insult to noodles.

Josh Davis.6015:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Snip.

I’ve thought through the implications of removing cele from PvP and what would happen to elementalist quite a bit, actually. It’s pretty risky. I think elementalist would need a new 4 stat combo to be viable at roughly the same level (maybe something like 1050pow/1050condi/560vit/560healing).

Actually 1050 pow/1050 toughness/560 vit/560 healing.

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Xillllix.3485:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Josh Davis.6015:

Aside from skill adjustments, another way we can adjust balance in PvP is by looking at the runes/sigils/amulets that are available for use through the customization panel.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts (with the high-level goals from the blog in-mind) on adding/removing various sigils/amulets/runes. In general, our goal for PvP is to be faster-paced with a higher-level of lethality than what we’re seeing in S1.

I know we’ve had this conversation a few times before, but it’s always important to have this discussion with the correct context in mind.

If the team is going to be looking at runes/sigils/amulets, might I strongly suggest getting rid of celestial amulet. I know it has be suggested before, but I think this would be a very healthy change for pvp overall. Some reasons:

- Cele amulet is a huge reason we have poor build diversity, especially when there are classes that get a huge benefit defensively because of self sustainable might stacking. These classes most notably include ele, engie, necro, ergo allowing these classes to fulfill multiple roles with no downside.

- With the release of HoT your developers have steered away from being a non traditional mmo by introducing druid as a more healing dedicated spec when it comes to PvE (this includes several unique pvp builds). There is also the more strongly designated role of tanking in raids. I now see that it is pointless to hamper build diversity through the use of this mentality that no trinity exists, as support (healer), bunker (tank), and burst (dps) rolls have become more fleshed out across the classes with HoT’s release.

Further more the removal of celestial amulet would allow players to make far more match influencing decisions by more specifically choosing a roll they would like to play. I believe it will also make matches far more interesting.

Lol if they get rid of the celestial amulet they will break the elementalist. The class can’t sustain with any other amulet.

Your statement proves that cele amulet is poor design, think about it. You say ele can only survive with one amulet. Any single class should not have to rely on one amulet to properly function in pvp.

Cele amulet is poor and lazy design no matter which way it is put. To the other poster trying to say that the “weakness” of cele amulet exists in not excelling in any specific area, why use the amulet in the first place. If the point of having several “unique” classes in a game to make it interesting, or allow their players a choice, why bring those classes closer and closer together with a unifying muddle item?

Well then they would need to completly rebalance and buff the elementalist class, so that it can use berserker amulet like it could on release. You need to realize that we are forced to use the celestial amulet because of the boon duration, toughness and hp we lost from the new trait system. As the squishiest class there is just no other option.

+1 I long for the day when Glass Staff Ele can have at least a slight chance vs Glass Rev/Thief/Guardian/Mesmer/Scrapper. At the moment any of those classes can kill a Glass Staff Ele in a few hits. You can’t even escape with all the chase/blink/chill from Rev and Thief. Hell, even a Warrior can win a glass staff Ele.

P.S. trivia, did you know that Staff Ele has lower damage coefficient than Scrapper despite their skills are slow and cannot hit any half decent player?

Ulion.5476:

The new diamond skin will probably be something like remove some conditions every 5sec when above 90%.

Which means a perma chill Reaper will have you chilled all the time.

Josh Davis.6015:

Good feedback. Something to keep in mind as we talk through proposals/suggestions, etc, is that while the meta does indeed have a heavy bunker aspect to it, there’s actually a considerable amount of damage going around that is only offset by how prevalent rezzing is. Think about the impact of the normalization of downstate and quickness/slow and how that will affect snowballing.

Reposting my suggesting before regarding the fine tune between extreme bunkers and extreme burst

The meta from the June patch was the most fun/fast pace meta ever. After the xpac, we descended to a boring/slow bunker meta where people poke each other with Minstrel amulet. I’m glad they removed it. ANet really need to shift the meta to be more DPS oriented.

Tenets for a fun/not boring to watch games:

• 1v1 should never last more than 3 minutes
• 1v2 should never last for more than 1 minute
• 1v3 should die as soon as invul/block wear off.
• burst should never kill another class in less than 5s.

To achieve that we need:

• Sustain damage needs to be buff
• Burst damage keeps the same, or shave a bit for high bursts
• Sustain defense needs a nerf

That’s the general direction. How to work out the numbers is up to ANet. But I really wish they can shift PvP into a fun to play mode again.

A more DPS oriented meta will also place the focus higher on rotation and team movements, since you don’t want to be caught 1v2. Right now people don’t care much about rotation if they slap on a bunker build.

Apolo.5942:

Dont like what i read about the revenant.

If you go power based, sword damage is the only reedeaming quality.

The class over all is very glassy and its sustain is clunky at best.

Every skill is telegraphed and has very long delays from the click to the effect because of casting times and animations.

To put it bluntly, damage in general is the only that makes the revenant worth it.

Wow, bad Rev detected. My glass Rev can solo toe to toe with a bunker due to all the low cooldown block/evades/blind/heal/CC built into the weapon.

Reaper and condi Rev/Mesmer will heavily counter Tempest after this patch since they apply condis every second, and thus cleansing is meaningless against them. The condi meta will return xD.

Oh well, I’ll wait and see how the changes turn out.

Ele will need more defense built into weapon like Rev/Scrapper/Mesmer/Guardian.

Glass Staff ele needs a lot of love to be viable in PvP. Why is that a glass Rev/Scrapper can 1v1 a Tempest on a point for 5m, but a glass staff Ele will die instantly to anything that touches it?

Also, Scepter auto attack needs a big buff for the tickling beam.

Burtnik.5218:

Zoltreez.6435:

Burtnik.5218:

Revenant; hammer

When last time you seen a hammer rev that wasnt a freekill in spvp?

When I was tier 6 Diamond. I didn’t see that guy again when I’m legendary though.

But people underestimate Hammer Rev in PvP, a lot.

Skittledness.5106:

You plebs don’t realize how stupid you are. Healing turrets synergy with the inventions trait line is what makes a scrapers op.
Also the DMG is fine…..after all their wearing marauders amulet:/

Damage coefficient is independent of Amulet. Now here is a candy, go away play your play doh and let the adults discuss it.

Parthrax.4812:

Sunshine.5014:

• Full ascended (as least the non Armor parts)
• Staff, Force sigil, Accuracy or Air sigil.
• Scholar runes, Berserker.

What ascended armor set? Zojja’s?

Yes, Berserker.

• Full ascended (as least the non Armor parts)
• Staff, Force sigil, Accuracy or Air sigil.
• Scholar runes, Berserker.

sinject.4607:

well i’d like to see Scrappers absurd hammer damage coeffecients gone for good too.

Scrapper has MULTIPLE attacks on hammer that either have higher coefficients/damage than backstab or just around the same as backstab, and they all do something defensively as well. here’s a comaparison:

Thanks for posting this. The scaling of damage is insane, given that it also does a ton of other things.

Laserbolt.6731:

If everybody gets a gold star, it isn’t worth anything.

You should not be able to grind to Legendary status. Because if you can, then it only means you spent obscene amounts of time grinding. Nothing more.

You would be surprised how small the percentage of 7D active users that reached Legendary is. Most people are in Ruby and below. It’s easy to overestimate the number of Legendary players because they often spend 20-30+ minutes in HoTM waiting for queue, while most people under Sapphire got instant queue pop.