Guild Wars 2

warhammer online lost about 3/4 of its subscribers in the first 2 months because of class imbalance. its not a small issue that can be ignored.

do you watch chaithh’s streams? hes not too thrilled with the state of engi either.

the last match I watch with bigzan orng vs tcg I think, he played a bunker build. he ran around alot gear blocking, the only saving grace was his fantastic presence of mind to be where needed at the right time.

how many of you are spec’d tools, alchemy, explosives? most of you I bet. those that are condi builds are using firearms instead of explosives. its not like pre patch where we just couldnt pass up grenades cause it was so good, this is simply lack of better choices.

sure most everyone used cele before but it could actually be a dozen variations and thats why we like it. I would guess many others like me, make engi our mains because it was a great hybrid class and that allure has been strangled.

seems legit

/15charrcopters

to further add to the subject of engi difficulties in wvw, theres a relationship our abilities have with distance to damage. the close we get to the target the dps we can deliver but getting close to an enemy zerg increases the danger and our defense is more limited when compared to ele.

in the 10v10 – 20v20 engi does ok but beyond those numbers we cant get close and survive or deal noticeable dmg from range.

compare with necro wells and marks which appear instantly and overlapping at the target. engi will still be waiting on mortar shell travel time, so dps is still comparable but no burst and alot will just miss.

compare with LB ranger, dps gets stronger the farther away they are from their target. for eles range rly isnt a factor. both ranger and ele can have stability when needed but you can learn to play with out stabos.

in the 5v5 type situations engi has an advantage when fighting thiefs (which youll be seeing alot of) that staff ele is weak against but youll be fighting builds with far greater mobility.

the place where engi shines in wvw is as a shock trooper. best example is disorganized smc fights where enemies surround you, running through your forces. theres no chance for your zerg to focus down targets while being over run.

engi will out live eles, rangers, necros while having better sustain dps and healing. the more chaotic the situation becomes the strong is the engineer. rangers hide and pew until theyre caught. eles use all their cantrips and just run out of gas. necros are just auto attacking in death shroud cause all their wells are on CD.

this is when the engi is still going strong, they have better focus dps than guardians or warriors and will continue downing targets until the end of the fight.

I main an engi and I can do some clever things, desiege hard to reach ACs, blast a lot of water fields and even blob fight with a zerker flame thrower build but ill admit is mostly useless and just fluff dmg. that 1500 is only useful on stationary targets, dmg at that range is unnoticeable.

in contrast, eles are always wanted, they can do all those things engi can do but better as well as spike dmg alot harder with meteor shower and frost bow. if you want to roam, ele has better mobility to catch or escape.

engi is still my favorite class and wvw my preferred game mode, so those like me are in a bit of a predicament…

maybe they took an average from past 6-12 months when it wasnt so empty.

cele was right for the time when combined with stat increases from the trait lines.

with the 6-23 change power stat got a large increase and condi was increased by the scaling mechanic, in comparison cele still provides the same stats as prepatch. cele engi doesnt get the stat increase they had when going for the grenadier trait nor does cele give enough condi dmg to be meaningful.

even if IP was still in the explosives line it wouldnt make much of a difference. anet has decided to kill hybrid builds. engi still might be good if it werent for the overwhelming pressure from ele/mes/burning meta.

I wouldnt count on balance changes anytime soon.

have you fought a D/D ele? theyre mostly unkillable until they use all their cantrips and boons run out. Im guilty of playing around on a mesmer too, when I go to fight a boon spamming ele or warr I cast null field and its more fair contest.

ele doesnt need a nerf theres just very little counter play options available to a very strong build.
automated medical response – dont we want this to work with AED, why not just get right to it. I also meant this an option to self regulating defense auto elixir s, just different.

short fuse – if your using bomb kit chances are you will be in melee range catching a lot of cleave and extra toughness would be helpful. mesmers get 600 toughness while channeling mantras so I dont think its that crazy.

alot of my ideas came from my habit of blasting my water field 3+ times, believing thats a little more skilled than the average engi and such abilities should reward greater results.

anyway, thx for your feed back

I was (un)happily getting rekt as usual on my engi so I thought Id take a break write down my ideas for what the patch should have been. The internetz hate everything and even I hate suggestion threads but Im doing it anyway…
feel free to rip on my 30m of brainstorming
I tried to use ideas that make the trait lines work together better like regen triggering a condi clear and add in use of the new buffs or debuffs.

Explosives

Evasive Powder Keg – no ICD
Glass Cannon – swapping to Flame Thrower grants 5s of quickness.
Aim-Assisted Rocket – and 4s blindness, 5s ICD
Shaped Charge- also removes boons from enemy 33% chance
Short Fuse – and when using bomb kit gain 250 toughness.
Siege Rounds – increases the velocity and blast radius of mortar rounds
Shrapnel – Explosions have 50% chance to cripple 5s, ICD 10s
Thermobaric Detonation – using dodge as a blast finisher grants 4s super speed.
Explosive Powder – Increases damage from explosions by 25%. turret knock back becomes baseline.

Inventions

Cleansing Synergy – gaining regen triggers a cleaning pulse.
Over shield- 10s ICD when critically hit gain protection 5s and reduce stun duration by 20%
Automated Medical Response – Triggers A.E.D at 25%
Autodefense Bomb Dispenser – is also a smoke field.
Experimental turrets – and when destroyed daze nearby enemies.
Medical Dispersion Field – 15% and no ICD
Bunker Down – and explosions heal for 15% of dmg dealt to enemies.
Advanced Turrets – and reduce turret recharge time by 20%
Sooting Detonation – heals for 500 and grants 2s resistance.

Tools

Optimized Activation – gain 6s vigor when you critally hit 10s ICD.
Excessive Energy – increased damage while under the effects of vigor
Static Discharge – and does additional dmg for every boon on the target
Power Wrench – and when swapping to tool kit, push back near by enemies.
Reactive Lenses – also grants 3s reflect shield.
Streamline kits – special attacks only activate while in combat.
Lock On – and deal 10% more dmg to targets with revealed.
Takedown round – also applies slow condition.
Kinetic Battery – 12s duration, if not used no ICD
Adrenal Implant – dodging also grants 3s regeneration
Gadgeteer – at 5 charges the next gadget used has no CD.

Firearms

Sharp shooter – cause bleed if using a pistol, cause chill if using a rifle
Chemical Rounds – and reduces recharge on pistol skills 20%
Heavy Armor Exploits – attacks that are blocked or do zero dmg apply 10 vulnerability.
High Caliber – increases dmg 20% range 240, 10% 480.
Hematic Focus – striking a foe with bleeding or chill refreshes the duration.
Pinpoint Distribution – gain condition dmg if using a pistol or ferocity if using a rifle.
Skilled Marksman – and increases rifle range by 300.
No Scope – critical hits remove conditions and apply them to your target.
Serrated Steel – enemies cleansing your conditions gain 4s bleeding.
Juggernaut – and while under the effects of stability you cannot be critically hit.
Modified Ammunition – 33% chance to convert boons on target to conditions.
Incendiary Powder – 3 stacks of burning

Alchemy

Hidden Flask – 20s CD
Protection Injection – and gain retaliation if struck while under the effects of protection.
Invigorating Speed – and boon duration increased 20%
Health Insurance – outgoing healing to allies increased 200% while using med kit.
Transmute – and gain 2s resistance
Inversion Enzyme – and swapping to Elixir Gun grants Stone Skin 2s invulnerablity 10s ICD
Self-Regulating Defenses – and refill endurance
Backpack Regenerator – area heal for 500hp and clear 1 condition when swapping into a kit 10s ICD
Alchemical Tinctures – using any elixir removes a condtion
HGH – its pretty good the way it is
Stimulant Supplier – also add 6s vigor and quickness.
Iron Blooded – dmg reduced 5% per boon.

Med kit – bandage self instant cast and breaks stun. med blaster chills enemies. all throw skills are instant cast, drop at the engineers feet with 5s ICD.

Flame Thrower – Detonate Flame blast counts as an explosion. Napalm – Damage nearby foes, 3 stacks of burning 5s duration to foes who pass through 15s CD

Elixir X – something like this idea https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Idea-The-new-Elixer-X-Brain-Power/first#post5321779

Youre right sorel, i even realized that after i turned off my computer last night.

What about elixir F skill? That gets nothing from either trait.

The mokitten projectile finisher is so difficult to pull off it is in practical terms… useless.

Dont believe me cause you see the combo heart all the time? Drop the 5 water field, shoot 1 through it and see how much regeneration you get.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Z70;2cPFw0f6sT-x0;9;4lmk;0146247257;4SN0;3CoF2CoF2a0K

This is what I run most often and I do fairly well against 60% of the mesmers I fight. The good ones are truely unbeatable but fortunatly most are brand new to the class.

It should I certainly aggree but alchemical tinctures says… throw or consume elixirs which is why 2/3 of the EG abilities dont synergize. HGH gives the might and reduces cd which makes super elixir the 2nd quickest condi clear; turret being the first ofc.

We can still hope for something amazing on tuesday right???

its a beautiful idea!

for engi the live stream made the changes sound amazing but they just mucked up the traits and everything is the same or worse. its like they made the conscious decision to not make anything on the same power lvl as other classes as punishment.

then there was the mortar nerf which in hind sight now seems excessively cruel.

For mesmers the mind set was totally different…. eh it might be op but our customers will like it! these changes will make the class active and dynamic. a guildie wrote a mesmer survival guide on our forums with tricks and tips for mesmer defense. its four pages long! if I were to write one for engi it would be about 4 lines on how to gear block and blast your healing turret water fields.

theyre introducing all these new mechanics like resistance and quickness boons but its buried under layers of useless skills. engi has a 2s resistance boon in med kit, which is a poor choice in healing options, but then it requires press 6 to swap kit, press 5 and ground target to drop the potion, then walk over it to obtain the boon.

in contrast my warrior uses healing sig on 20s cd and gets 6s resistance with 5 might (traited). no matter what you think of the warrior meta thats still a good size portion of the new toys.

is this a recruiting thread for your guild?

was just pointing out this idea not so simple and wouldnt actually solve the problem you want fixed.
ok heres simple:
6hrs wvw match ups with auto upgrades like the live streams showed us.
earn 100 point for capturing a tower
earn 200 points for t2 upgrades
earn 300 points for t3 upgrades
continue earning 100 points every 15m there after until the enemy captures it.
maybe double that point structure for keeps/garri
four games per day, total wins up at the end of the week, adjust glicko.

the way wvw works now going on for 7 days, its evolved into pushing numbers into the map, steam rolling everything for a few hours and hoping we dont get night capped too hard.

shorter games would allow for complex strategies and team comps to develop. a whole week and ppl lose focus on what their doing. instead of saying… oh we’re doing well now but it doesnt matter cause other time zone is weak and the enemy catches up.
imagine a close game that you just have to hold your lead for another 30m for a win? youd be personally invested in that, I would get excited and push harder. then if your losing you get to try again in a few hours, its only one loss out of 4. even if your server loses every game at least your spawn keeps and garri arent waypointed for the enemy all the time.

after experimenting with just about every trait/utility/weapon combination I feel like it rly doesnt matter what build we use.

sure you can go firearms IP to boost burning dmg, or explosives for grenadier but those traits arent even necessary.

the core nature of engi is to be hybrid, with the way condi dmg scales now cele doesnt give enough offensive stats to be very effective. Cele did not receive a stat boost comparable to the other amulets, its still pretty much the same while every thing else is running 3k power with zerk.

with the current mesmer meta FT is the best anti clone weapon and you can run this kit just fine with out juggernaut. you can run FT in a power or condi build and back it up with alchemy traits for condi clear. next decide if you want your speed boost from inventions or tools? put in your tool kit for the blocks and youre pretty much done.

at this point you can just pick a random random amulet/sigils/runes/weapons and get about the same performance. oh yeah, standard healing turret and what ever 3rd utility best suits your preference.

edit: try this random build I put together
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ZRR;2cPFw0f6sTkw0;9;4klm;0257146247;4Eo0;35NV05NV00g

maybe we have different definitions of base line then. I mean added function we dont have to trait for. in the live stream they said 3 grenades would be base line, we have 3 grenades with or with out the grenadier trait or explosives line at all.

If I recall correctly the live stream said this was going to be base line function. maybe its still coming along with the 1200 rifle range…

I tested it on a moa, dmg matches the graphic area with the fire bomb. Are we talking about something different?

This sounds like the least simple idea ever. The server pops werent balanced at launch either. I remember when i was first picking a server, I chose from the highest pop with the shortest name (so its less visable) which was black gate. I almost chose kaineng but I dont know what a kaineng is and it sounded dumb.

Server pride? Never aquired any on bg. It was some time later I met some friends in a dungeon run and I transferred to their server (despite its irritatingly long name) so we could run wvw together.

If it werent for the community on my server I prolly wouldnt still be playing gw2. We dont win all that often but we rarely have ques! Some ppl just want to win but nvr have to play wvw. Thats what I think of the over stacked servers and hour long ques.

Thats the trade off, play wvw when ever you want but not always gonna win. We notice when our friends are missing. Its a lot of pressure too, some times i think it would be nice to be an anonymous 1 spamming minion on bg again.

Is there no middle ground? I think thats the real answer we want.

the tool belt rocket from the rocket turret hits hard also.

can say the same about elixir x and going hampage…

after I played several hundred spvp games to get in tune with the new meta, I did eventually learn the rhythms of the mesmer and I feel much more confident when fighting them.

first you absolutely need at least 1 stun break. when you hear that obnoxious PEEEEW sound check and see how many clones are heading your way. yes you have like 1/10th of second to do that, if many clones…. DODGE! if no clones let it ride.

try to keep the clones all to one side, dont get surrounded and keep destroying them until the mesmer runs out of stealth. my preferred weapon is the flame thrower, usually after burning down like a dozen clones a mesmer appears at 25% who starts running.

FT is also an excellent anti blind weapon because it attacks 5x a second which use up the blinds immediately.

as mentioned before, leading clones over box of nails is great, also acid bomb, accelerated packed turret explosions; anything like that.

you just gotta play 200-300 games to get the hang of it ’

I was thinking the same, need more hp. 3k power is easy to get with a few might stacks but some how we still have the hp as pre patch. Most of the burst is enough to kill my engi twice over.

Imagine how doubling all player hp would work out. Teef opens with 10k bs and spams the usual 22222. Lets say i take all those hits and its 20k dmg sofar. Well we’re both in bad positions now. Teef is tapped on initiative and I only have 10k hp left. Bad play like spamming hs is not rewarded. Instead the thief would need to pace resource usage and set up multiple burst rotations.
Im not saying buff healing and toughness to match vitality. I think this could become an interesting dynamic as healing only off sets part of the incoming dmg while the increased health pools gives players time to use more complex healing builds.

Its true now thanks to golem week. Also hilarious… watching my guildies fumble their way through duneons for the first time.

You seem to have overlooked the brilliant combo of kinetic battery and toss elixir x.

the mokitten is more appropriate on power builds

just double all player hp like the world bosses… done!

new treb ammo: golems!

Malchior.1928:

Hm. Engis can now have up to 5 kits + a weapon. Additionally there is the toolbelt.

Thats 40 skills. And yet you want more ?

Rev only had 15.

Yus!

comparing to eles; they have all their attunements and utility skills. when engi doesnt take a kit thats like an ele dropping an attunement for a mediocre utility.

I make this comparison because I started playing ele again. the mobility and utility is fantastic. I can pick fights I wont win and then run away safely until the pursuing enemies give up, then turn around and pick off the slow ones. engi has to fight to the death every time.

sure youre gonna say… rocket boots or elixir s! take them both and youre running 1 kit, maybe 2 with the mokitten. doesnt seem that fun. even rocket boots wont take you that far and in this meta of insane mobility engi is very lacking.

engi also needs a teleportation device. it fits the theme right? maybe it can be like a star trek spoof with the sparkly effects, epic!

that wandered pretty far off topic, sorry. I doubt hammer will give us the things we need so pretty much a moot point.

golem rush actually works pretty well in eotm. what I have observed sofar…

more fighting with 80s, possibly wvw refuges

the golems tend to get destroyed when capping towers and keeps cause of lord aoe.

less golems because they get destroyed quickly

the gates start as reinforced so it takes them a little longer to break open.

the walls are higher, longer, bigger making it harder for omegas to clear defensive siege

the vertical nature of the map, enviroment and NPCs more hazardous to golems.

the easy access to golems allows smaller parties to split from the mega blob and attack objectives on their own.

I been playing op cele ele today when Im playing conquest its pretty face roll splashing aoe every where and the enemy team is forced to stand in it or give up the point.

then I play courtyard and its suddenly a bit harder. there more los and positioning problems. cant just go burning speed yolo into the enemy team and then fgs run away laughing cause they cant leave the ring.

when I played mesmer on courtyard same problem, theres pressure coming from multiple directions and Im thinking more about just surviving then leisurely casting clones all on one spot. stun lock, no where for you to go, no team help cause you went far for the decap.

if we could have strong hold or more tdm maps, the balance wouldnt be as much of an issue as it is right now.

just play mes, ele, guardian and have fun

Unfortunately we all know how easy it is to become dismissive when other ppl don’t agree with us.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Mantra_Shatter

I took my mes to spvp and copied the meta battle mantra shatter. Even though I have more experience portaling golems than actually fighting as a mesmer, after about 5 unranked i was getting the hang of it and destroying warriors and guardians with out much effort.

while I dont have much understanding of what the traits are doing I know that with this build the stun is both offense and defense at the same time.
getting attacked? stun! now my enemy is doing zero dps. put out some clones and hit one of them F keys and theyre almost dead. trying to heal? staff 5 on them and dead.

the big advantage with the mantras is Im healing/stunning/dmging while Im casting other stuff. it took me a few more games to figure out I could do clever things like f4 and channel mass invis to escape safely. then I could recharge my mantras and set up clones for another burst from stealth.

the only real pressure was teef steal/backstab/heartseekerspam mostly because being a total noob I didnt know how to react. against other classes I was able to even win a few 2v1s cause I was using decoy instead of portal. it wasnt even a real 2v1 in the sense that my target was locked down and trying to get away while some other enemy tried, unsuccessfully, to catch me.

so why qq about it just play mesmer and farm dem wins.

I enjoyed stronghold and hope you add it to the live game soon.

When playing strong hold I felt like the class imbalance was less of an issue cause you are rarely standing still an a point waiting for a mesmer to insta zero you from stealth.

Throwing the old nades on top of walls was my specialty and the mokitten just doesnt have enough arc. Its very sad that eles can be the only master desieging class.

But its not like any one misses having an engi in the zerg.

all what… 3 of us who ever actually tried it can confirm, be thankful for the bumps.

AED is 5s.

I tried to make an aed build work for 2 days and thats when i noticed amr wasnt resetting aed if i had the gadgeteer charge. Then i dropped gadgeteer and tried to make aed work eith just amr but its even less survivable even with the potential 10s cd.

Amr doesnt proc when the hp threshold is crossed but instead when you are hit with dd under the threshold. When you cross that 25% mark every thief in the world spams hs on you and 3/4s cast time might as well be a 34m channel.

Aed was almost usable with a 30s cd. Gadgeteer charges should make aed insta cast then you could get some awesome trait synergy. Bettet yet, make aed a utility instead of a heal skill. How about “box of gadgets” where all the gadgets replace 1-5 like a kit.

Enough crazy talk now back to your heal turret and like it.

I noticed the reset issue also. Doesnt matter cause none of the three will ever be used again.

Im still hoping for the birthday cake

Its like lvl 20 or something before you can enter via the menu window. You can join before then by walking through the asura gates in Lobster Arch.

Ill guess… SFR?

they should just go full bakery with the bomb kit and make it look like a birthday cake.

the grenade bindle could be cupcakes, mortar is a frosting gun, tool kit a spatula, med kit is a pot holder mitten, elixir gun shoots jelly donuts…

I agree with op

theres so many instagib builds running around right now, grenadier is the only thing keeping us on the lvl in pvp.

cause this is the only over the top dmg problem in the game?

I feel exactly what this post is about. theres such a huge rift between those who want to play wvw as a team and strategy game vs everyone else.

as for the ppt = coverage argument… we dont care. we still gonna fight hard and play our best. we understand the situation and how glicko works but what we strive for is ending the day and being proud what we did.