Guild Wars 2

Valmarius.4150:

1) Most people seem to agree that MF food is ok, because a lot of people don’t bother with food anyways. How can someone talk about people “leeching” and lowering their potential, and then, with a straight face, say that MF or no food at all is ok? We’re talking the possiblity of 20% boon duration, 10% critical damage, health regen, large boosts to pretty much any stat and a plethora of other effects. Mixed with oils or stones, there’s quite a difference (purely looking at stats) between people who use them and people who do not.

Why are we not seeing topics on people not using food being leechers?

I absolutely love this question. Let’s see what the anti-MF crowd has to say about that xD

Turtle Dragon.9241:

TWMagimay.9057:

They don’t restore items, chars etc. As for the credit card…depends on where the security breach happened. Hint: It wasn’t ANet’s fault. Do a full scan on your PC and abandon the e-mail account.

They do. Proof below.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Account_Restoration

This is their policy. Hope you get your stuff back.

Precisely:
Individual characters or items cannot be restored; the ART operates on the account as a whole.

And this is from an e-mail I received after a similar issue(except my account wasn’t actually compromised):
Also, please be aware that the Support Team is unable to restore any missing Characters or Items.(dated 22.12.2012)

They don’t restore items, chars etc. As for the credit card…depends on where the security breach happened. Hint: It wasn’t ANet’s fault. Do a full scan on your PC and abandon the e-mail account.

Magiofdeath.2745:

A timer on anything put into the TP would be nice. Every other MMO I’ve played has a time limit on things you put up for sale.

nods

Btw, if you cancel an order, do you get the gold back?

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

I am not the guy, hating on all the people using MF.
But just from my personal point of view, thinking about it, going through the numbers, you do not make more, but LESS money, running dungeons in MF gear, except fractals.

I do not care about how who performs compared to whom, but getting MF gear for dungeons is a bad build to begin with.

If you want to call everyone who performs a little worse than others a leecher, go ahead, but that will not prove MF gear to be useful, nor the opposite. Arguing like that, I could tell you Power/Vit/Tough gear is uber bad and useless, yet you said it has its purpose some posts ago.

I don’t know about how much gold/hour one gets with mf set or with normal set. By now I’m pretty convinced than mfind is a placebo. But, darn it, I’ll keep gathering in it because that little voice in my head keeps telling me I get more orbs with mfind set. I’ll also keep farming mobs with it, because of that same voice. It tries talking when I run dungeons, but there the I-want-to-impress-others-by-not-dying-all-the-time voice wins.

I’m not the one calling people in mfind gear leechers, that’d be you(I think) and the others I’m arguing against. Namely, the people saying that if you are running explorer instead of berserker, you are leeching. I didn’t say power/vit/toughness was useless or useful. I asked how that set factors in the “omg, 30% less crit dmg, n00bZ”-theme that’s going on here. And suddenly the dmg wasn’t an issue any more. And then the survival wasn’t an issue any more(I think somewhere we agreed that a glass cannon is stat-wise just as tanky as mfind). And since neither dmg nor survival are apparently a factor when it comes to contributing to the party…wait, what?! Oh, right, it was the “attitude” that made smb a leecher not the performance. That was when I realised the core of this topic is “mfind n00bZ because I don’t like the way they look at me.”

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Lold
You can not let me have the last post I guess?
Challenge accepted:

‘…or makes only token offerings in an attempt to avoid being called a leech’
taken from wikipedia.

Sounds like MF gear to me, eh?

Why? Based on the calculations people did(and i think that was mw mfind vs exotic berserker?) mfind user does 2/3 of the dmg. I wouldn’t say that’s a token… And it’s, again, what a Knight set user would do. Does that make a Knight set user a leech as well?

And here’s smth else to chew on.
I assume that you have a lvl 80 char in full exotic and that you, at least once, killed a champion in one of the starter areas. Based on your definition, if I were to put on my mfind set and kill a champ in a lvl 1-15 area with a few lvl 3-10 players, I’ll be leeching, because I’m not wearing a berserker set.
And then the expression itself introduces another party, you are leeching -insert the correct preposition here- somebody. Which means you are contributing less compared to smb else. Thus if you are performing equally to the rest, you can’t be leeching, you are doing your share. If player B is equal to players A, C, D and E while player B is wearing mfind set, he’s doing his 20%. If that same player were to wear a berserker set, he’d obviously be doing more than the rest, namely 30%(based on the above mentioned calculations) while the rest would be contributing 17.5%. Wouldn’t then they be the leechers?

This is why I insist that leeching is based on performance not gear.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

So your definition of a leeching player is him lying dead on the floor all the time.
Mine is not performing the best you could.

I guess our argument is done then.

My definition would also be the actual meaning of the word. From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leecher
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=leecher
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/leech
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/leech
It has a lot to do with where the word comes from.

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Comparing players has nothing to do with the problem of MF. The only thing you have to compare is different gear on your own character.

Ermmm, no. Leeching is directly related to other players. Being a leecher doesn’t mean performing worse than you could, it means performing worse compared to everybody else in your group. I guess I should’ve started with that, but I assumed…since it’s in the topic title and all…

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Funny, you do not understand what I am saying, but instead of trying to understand it, you simply say NO.

It is not on me to explain the explanation to my previous explanation. If you do not even take half a minute to think about it.

Funny, I admit to not understanding you point but instead of trying to explain it better, you just say NO. I even googled “alternative loss”, because I figured that’s my problem. Google hasn’t heard of that phrase(unless you meant weight loss which I highly doubt).

Btw, just in case, my point is that you shouldn’t judge the gear but the performance. If nobody is lying on the floor all the time, the run is going smooth and fast it shouldn’t matter if 1 or more players have magic find because they are obviously doing it right. The only time you can feel like you are carrying smb or smb is leeching is if they are afk or on the floor half the time. Neither of those is a direct result of mfind gear though.

Graill.8596:

The first step to curing yourself is admitting your problem. Good for you. Now sit down in your chair…next person, state your name and why you are here…..

Did you just have a aneurysm? Or did you simply run out of arguments to support your case?

Gasoline.2570:

Whatever the case is;

Every set has 3 stats that help you fight and survive longer, mf does none of those and instead grants 1 person better loot instead of contribution to the rest of the team. This is why MF is a bad mechanic and awards selfish players for being more skilled than the rest.

There, fixed it for you. Now tell me what’s wrong with being rewarded for skill.

@above: True, if you can’t explain your point, there is no reason to keep talking.

Gasoline.2570:

They would do no less if prec was turned into vital, why? they survive longer, they manage to help downed players with higher probability.

Whenever there’s mf, theres a lot less of 1 vital stat that makes a difference no matter how you look at it. So, there.

How exactly do you survive longer compared to “not getting downed at all”?

@above: I absolutely didn’t understand that.

Gasoline.2570:

^ because they could do even more if that mf was turned into crit dam.

And? They could also do less if that precision was turned into vitality. Why do you think it’s wrong for people to take advantage of being more skilled than others? Why should that guy carry you through a dungeon instead of perform just as good as you do but get more drops for being a better player?

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

So, taking your example of knight’s set.

If you do not need the toughness, why not take berserkers over MF?

I do not see your point, by the way. Are you grasping for straws until someone says:

If you run MF instead of Power/Vit/toughness, you do not lose damage?

Because I don’t want to take berzerker?

Well, isn’t that true? You can’t randomly choose a set to compare mfind to and go like “yeah, you lose a lot of dps”. You lose 1 stat. I’ll try to explain it better.
Player A is using a Knight set to compensate for lack of skill/knowledge/experience with the extra survival from toughness.
Player B is very skilled/experienced/knowledgeable so s/he opts for mfind instead of toughness.
Why is player B contributing less(or leeching or w/e) compared to player A? Taken both of them would provide roughly the same dps(since they have the same offensive stats) and will have roughly the same amount of downed time(since their survivability is also roughly the same).

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Why would you compare a set with precision and power with something like healing power or tanky gear?

Oh, you haven’t seen all sets in the game. Knight set has power/precision combination as well with toughness as main stat which is what I compared to explorer with mfind main stat. The 50 precision difference is from the jewels, because opal jewels have mfind as main and emerald have precision instead. Also, there is a power/cond dmg/mfind set as well which further expands the sets you can compare mfind gear to.

skotie.2614:

What honestly would have been wrong with the suggestion to change magic find I said ages ago?

Change magic find to a passive effect on your character rewarded from doing things in game, map completion, pvp, dungeon completions, jumping puzzles etc. The more achievements you’ve done the higher your magic find would rise and the better loot you would get all the time. This would of course mean replacing current magic find gear stats to something else and food and other things which give boosts to magic find other buffs as well.

This system would give better rewards to those who have been doing more activities in game and give you overall better drops depending on how much time you’ve invested into your character. Best of all magic find would not be on gear, food, sigils or anything else, meaning you can actually gear for survival, burst damage in pvp, condition damage etc. Your magic find stat would be I say again a passive effect on your character meaning you would have it in effect no matter what you wear, even if you wore nothing at all.

I love this idea. I so want achievements and ap to be smth more than e-kitten thing… Why do all games make these useless systems when it’s so easy to give them a meaning is beyond me…

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

TWMagimay.9057:

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Compared to berserker gear, which is the only gear you can actually compare it with.

Why is Berzerker the only set you can compare it to? I already asked earlier and people agreed that toughness/vit sets are not useless or anything…

BUTTERBLUME.3217:

Yes, you lose tons of damage.

I just checked. 50 precision is tons on dmg in what world exactly?

Mirm.5249:

When we are at the final boss (of fractals or other instance) we always ask if he is wearing MF or if we see SoL during instance, if they said yes, they are instantly kicked ( Yeah we are 3 team mate).

Thank you for adding yourself to my block list.

Astralporing.1957:

I’m not judging neither gear, nor performance. I am judging attitude. When i see a full MF-geared player in a dungeon, I see someone that decided to screw the other four players for profit. You may think that’s okay – I do not.

So, if that mfind player happens to be the best from the bunch, you still think he’s screwing everybody over? How does he screw you over if he’s the only one who doesn’t get downed at all, the boss is dying at a good pace despite those without “attitude” being on the floor half the time while the guy with the “attitude” is ressing yall up, maintaining xx stacks of might/bleed/w.e etc etc. He’s better than all of you, but he still screws you over, right?

maddoctor.2738:

Well if they remove common materials from the recipe so it rewards only fine materials and lodestones (+ectos/shards/coins as they do know) I wouldn’t have any problems with the RNG… I made 7 clovers with 23 tries (which is close to 1/3) but got 6 leather/5 gossamer/3 wood and 2 ori… which are pretty much useless compared to the actual cost. Also after 23 tries I didn’t get a single lodestone.

I believe if they improved what you can get from the mystic clover recipies, instead of being another gold sink to create your legendary, it would actually be a somewhat useful recipe as a whole.

Mystic clovers are not a gold sink. That aside, I would love to stop getting those ori/gossamer/wood/leather(ewww) stuff from it, but, well, can’t win them all.

Also, the recipe isn’t broken. I crafted 28 last night, got 8 in a roll…should’ve stopped after that though…

maddoctor.2738:

Are you sure you are not going to take any damage during all the dungeon runs you will EVER do in the game? I bet you get hit sometimes… so yes you will be dragging the party down even with one hit.

Also, besides having reduced stats you are gaining something, while your party loses, ever thought of that “imbalance”? Besides you are still missing stats AND other benefits of Runes, what kind of runes do you have on your Knight set and what kind of runes on your Explorer set? Which sigil are you using? Full MF set = everything MF sigils/runes/armor/jewels.

What’s so selfish about MF gear is that you lower your gear quality intentionaly for personal gain. YOU only gain something by using it, while the rest of the group loses, every other stat/build offers something to the group, more toughness/vitality is needed at times, more condition damage might be needed sometimes (not often), more boons/healing/support. MF is NEVER ever needed in any way or form…

My problem with this whole attitude is that you are judging gear and not performance. How do you even figure that out? How do you decide who contributed more, the guy in mfind set that got downed 2 times, the glass cannon guy who went down 5 times or the vit/toughness guy who didn’t get downed at all?

Artemis Noir.3804:

Except that people running vitality and toughness are far less likely to die, which means they are doing damage because they are standing rather than in a permanent downed state. Further, if they are standing, they are also able to rez, bringing even more to the party. The person in full MF, on the other hand, is like the individual who shows up to a group lunch in a restaurant and “forgets” to bring their wallet. They take, but they contribute nothing.

So, basically, you have no problem with people doing less dmg. You also have no problem with people who have low survivability. But that only applies as long as they aren’t wearing mfind gear. I have Knight and Explorer set. The difference is in toughness, dmg is the exact same. But toughness only helps if you are actually getting hit. If I’m not taking dmg, the 2 sets are perfectly equal. So, how can you claim that 1 of them is “dragging the party down”?

One thing seriously bugs me about this topic…do you also consider everybody who runs power/vit/toughness a leecher? Or power/precision/toughness? Or any set that includes toughness/vitality?

SneakyErvin.3056:

They are? Well yes it does say legendary on them, but they still look like kitten.

And what are legendary weapons supposed to look like? Feel free to attach a gif or jpg to your answer.

Sokina.8041:

What I learned in this thread: Apparently scamming is fine if people are “Foolish enough” to trust him.

Lol. This forum. Be right back, going to go steal from someone. It’s fine though, since I won’t get caught. Totally not a flawed mentality at all.

Guess most of the people that say “You got what you deserved” were totally born with street smarts, and had to learn the hard way that only the strongest survive, or some other bullkitten.

Hopefully their account doesn’t get hacked, because then they’d make a topic and cry about it, and I can laugh and high-five the hacker who was able to find out their simple password. Because obviously it’s their fault for having a crackable password, and the hacker is doing nothing wrong.

Here’s what you are missing though. We need to learn from our mistakes so we don’t repeat them. But how would OP learn from his mistake if everybody is telling him he didn’t make one? When you constantly push the blame to smb else, you are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again because you don’t recognise them as such.

Azure Prower.8701:

The one thing that bugs me when doing fractals. A ranger not running with healing spring. Especially when I have an on-demand-spamable-blast-finisher as a thief.

“Heal as one/troll unguent heals for more and I keep moving.”

Guess who went down the most during that run.

Did you try…mentioning that? I’ve been in parties with a lot of thieves. Today, for the first time one of them decided to share that “i got lots of blast finishers, lay fields for me”. And sine I have spammable fire and water field…the two of us maintained 25 might stacks on the party and the bosses were melting. That happened only because he had the bright idea of informing the non-thieves that he’s really good at blasting.

As for the rest…I’m gonna say it one more time:
Those who can use all weapons and all skills equally good already carry all weapons and do use them. Those who don’t do that, simply can’t. For various reason. And if they can’t use a w/e weapon you find more effective, you are trading a competent player for a skill. If you think that’s efficient, well, that’s your opinion. And I disagree with it.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Nothing legendary whatsoever with the current way legendaries are obtained.

That’s because the items themselves are legendary, not the way to obtain them. Duhhh.

Ayrilana.1396:

Your logic isn’t any better.

Had the guy done that fractal before?
Is he even any good?
Would it have been any different if he was in glass cannon armor?
Would the extra defense had made a difference if he was equipped like you?

The main issue that I see with those against MF users is that they assume that the gear makes the player. If they have the best stats for the slot then they’re the best player or will “carry their weight.”

Player skill holds more weight than stats. If you do any sort of pvp then you’ll quickly realize this. The same can easily be applied to pve as well. The aspect that people from both sides of the argument fail to consider is the actual impact in stats and whether the difference between the two actually causes a substantial hindrance.

I think you misunderstood. I was agreeing with you. Oh, and the answer to the questions? The non-mfind guys were the floor lovers and they were the ones failing on the fire bird. The chances of 3 separate people getting to lvl 8 fotm without encountering the fire fractal is…astronomical.

Watari.1037:

I never played Tera, so not sure about that. But you are correct about spam, you don’t see many people complaining about it now although it certain exists. Maybe you are right and adding WTT/WTS type spam wouldn’t push it over the top to being annoying, I’m not sure.

Well, from what I saw there, people pretty much “policed” it themselves. And there is this added benefit…it has separate channels for trade, lfg, general. Now, general would already be filled with random spam and lfg would be filled with, well, lfg. Trying to trade there would get you msg lost in the other noise so sensible people simply went for /t instead. You’d generally see WTT msg in other channels only if those were dead anyway.

zorifour.2173:

Yes i learn my lesson i will always use the stink TP gold sink at least is secure yeah for a big price. But that dude cant get away with it, hes a thief.

You do realise that the seller pays the price, right?

Rouven.7409:

1. Perhaps one might not just think of the definition of it but also on how it is used in context. Because quite frankly a legendary weapon could have the status of a green item if you go by the meaning of the word legendary alone. (The real stuff of legend is also rarely found in a bazar – and if then only because the value was not known. One Excalibur only 10 rupees, grab it while it’s hot.)

What is the context of Legendary weapons though? From what I’ve seen, it’s closer to the word definition than to what players seem to think it is… And we don’t usually find real legendary stuff because we don’t live in fantasy world(which makes most legends just glorified fairy tales). But people do often find exqusite items in random places. Smb found a Stradivarius violin on the street, antique dealers visit flea markets looking for valuables etc.

2. So the pro TP player who achieves the carrot after 2-3 weeks sticks around longer … because? (exaggerating in a similar fashion) I’m somewhat sure that Anet would like us all to stick around.

I doubt anybody plays GW2 just for the TP flipping. I mean, there are enough economy-oriented games out there to satisfy people who only need that. It’s a very niche market with a limited application in more or less standard MMOs.

3. Most dedicated in what?

Whatever it is they do to get the legendary.

Having said that, I am not exactly sure how magic find itself is the issue. I would think that by giving up other stats for magic find you would have to make up for that with … skill?

It’s, like, a trend. Your(and my) logic about mfind gear doesn’t work. Today I finally found the time to run fotm 8(because my girl is supporting alts and I need them tokens). Me in Knight set, a guy in mfind set(at least the runes, that parrot is hard to miss) and 3 other guys. Guess who spent half the run on the floor? And guess who kept hitting the adds when the fire bird went in the bubble? I actually had to resu the mfind guy midfight because I couldn’t solodown the bubble fast enough and without him we were looking at an endless fight for obvious reasons. The other I just left on the floor, cause they were all so useful in their non-mfind gear(I know at least one of them wasn’t in mfind, cause he decided to QQ bout the parrot).

Watari.1037:

Couple things, people don’t use the channels right to begin with. /team for example in WvW, lots of people still use /map even though the idea would be to use /team so you can filter out everything for team related tasks. Resulting in me keeping both /map and /team on so I can see both all the help requests and random shouting matches, where if people split them up accordingly I could avoid seeing people yell at each other for silly things while still seeing we are trying to take this tower or keep.

Secondly, the games (like GW1) that have a trade channel, doesn’t prevent people from using other forms of chatting to buy or sell their items. It still spills over, because sellers and buyers alike recognize that a lot of people are just going to turn off /trade and so they use something else to get their message seen by the most people.

If they add direct trades, I certainly hope a channel comes along so we can filter out some, but regardless adding trading to the game would most definitely result in more spam shouting in the towns like previously mentioned by Chamone.

Mmm, I came here from Tera. It had none of the issues you are so worried about despite having person-to-person trades. Heck, people were actually complaining that /t wasn’t turned on by default.
And having in mind that LA overflow chat is a mix of German, French, English and about a dozen other languages(EU servers that is), I don’t think WTT spam would somehow make it worse. Is unrelated spam was an issue, people would be complaining about that, don’t you think?

Chamone.6890:

1: Pretty sure that “Legendary” has turned out to be not what anyone expected. It’s an extreme grind which can be bypassed with money, luck or exploits. There’s no way of getting one that will make me respect you as a person.

Extreme grind: You have no life.
Money: You’re just a rich kitten.
Luck: Wee-hoo, good for you you dropped 3 precursors from the karka chest
Exploits: You’re a cheater.

I mean the word “legendary”. The Lady of the Lake literally threw the sword at king Arthur’s feet. Does that mean the sword is not legendary since Arthur didn’t loot it from Morgana’s corpse?

2: I’d prefer it if those players left after 2-3 weeks personally.

And I’d prefer if players like you left after 2-3 weeks. Can’t have it all.

3: Being “dedicated” to a video game is nothing to be proud of.

Why not? It’s a hobby. It’s the same as being proud that you can run 2km in 5 min, draw awesome paintings, have a coin collection, know a lot about movies, are great at karaoke etc. To each his own.

AmagicalFishy.6935:

Phantasy Star Online and Diablo just to name two w/o a trading post or auction house. There are a ton of games like that.

Never heard of Phatasy Star Online, but Diablo is b2p, not f2p. Also, I wasn’t talking about auction house/trade broker but about person-to-person trade.

Watari.1037:

Chamone.6890:

There is no trade window by design.

If there was a trade window, here is what EVERY SINGLE chat window would look like, map, guild, say, everything:

WTS Dusk – 400G
WTB Charged Lodestones 1G ea.
WTS Peach tarts 20s each
~~~ BUYING ~~~ 1000x MITHRIL ORE ~~~ 10c ~~~
WTS Dusk – 400G
WTB Charged Lodestones 1G ea.
WTS Peach tarts 20s each

FOREVER

Not having a trade window was the smartest move they ever made.

Very good point, I honestly hadn’t thought of that. That was basically the chat window for GW1, in fact I think the only thing I ever typed outside of guild chat was “WTS Cloths of Brotherhood” and so on.

And that is why some games have multiple chat channels. Dedicated to trade, lfg, random chat etc.

teviko.6049:

But then, people wouldn’t use the TP. If you use te TP, you get taxed, which is a money sink, which means money goes ‘POOF’ which means people will want to make even MORE money, which means they will cave and buy gems from the gem shop and convert to gold.

Without taxes, there is no incentive to buy gems from cash shop. Simply, A.Net loses their revenue. So, there will be no trading between players

There has to be better reason. Every single f2p game(you know, games that rely only on cash shop to exist) I ever played had a perfectly good trading system without having an income problem. And it’s so easy to create massive gold sinks out of thin air if needed.

For one, I’m loving the “i’m so much better than everybody” vibe in this topic. And even more so the way these leet players cry that, can you imagine, with all that skill and competence, they somehow can’t hold 10g together. Having in mind what gold sinks this game offers….I have a very hard time seeing anybody with 800h of playtime and 400g away from a legendary as pro.

Oh, almost forgot. Did it ever occur to you:
1. to check the meaning of “legendary”? Cause I’m fairly sure it doesn’t mean what you think.
2. that legendary weapons are the carrot on the stick? Without them, your casual pve player would stick around this game for 2-3 weeks
3. that legendaries should be obtainable for everybody, but actually obtained by the most dedicated?

Maestro.5376:

Point being that a high number of memorization elements does not excuse not knowing your class…

So, if i know what focus air 4 skill does, I still don;t know my class. I need to know the exact name? That’s a very funny theory.

Because, obviously, you were there when I asked them to equip Swirling Winds…Because obviously, you know how I talked to them…

Obviously, I read your extremely mocking and condescending opening post. Or did you forget how you wrote it? Unless it went different in the party and you just wanted to act like a big ol’ champ on the forum?

Because obviously changing the strategy of my specific party composition to better suit our combat strategy means that OUR STRATEGY IS THE ONLY WAY TO COMPLETE THIS DUNGEON AND NOONE ELSE IS FREE TO DO IT IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER…

They also said you can have any party composition you want, they did NOT say to complete any dungeon you could have any builds in that composition that you wanted…

Also, I’ve been completing Fractals successfully since Day1, so…right, there goes another point.

So, why did you need focus eles if anything works?

Yes, obviously, you so completed that run. Like, totally.

I wasn’t aware I was either at a greater elevation or that they had enabled mounts in the game.

Learn2English

Snarkiness does nothing except earn you the lack of respect.

Well, thank you. Being respected by people like you is my biggest fear.

I love how you just continually make assumptions about how I treated a party when in reality, you weren’t there, and you have no idea how many failed attempts occurred before the suggestion was made, or how there was no mention of the competency of any of the party members, or how we were all polite and courteous to each other, or the fact that I never gave orders, only suggestions.

But that’s alright, you can think what you want. Have fun with that.

Read your OP. Think about it.

PS: Clean your keyboard because your caps key tends to get stuck…

Heliox.8632:

This thread does exactly what the topic says, providing a pro tip that one should carry ALL AVAILABLE weapons on their character. I have 7 level 80’s and I carry every weaponset on all of those characters. I don’t memorize all their names, but I do understand 90-95% of how most of those skills work.

If the success of the party relies on 1 single skill, there is smth horribly horribly wrong with the party. As in, if the party fails so hard that I’d need to use xxx skill, chances are, the party will keep failing hard. 1 person can’t compensate for everybody else. OP even admits ot that(they never finished the run despite the 2 eles finding foci and using them, obviously the problem was not that the eles were staff users).

Maestro.5376:

And each class in GW1 had 100+ skills to keep track of, PER CLASS out of TWO CLASSES PER CHARACTER. What’s your point?

That we are not playing GW1. Yours?

Increasing the number of things you have to recall by a trivial number, ESPECIALLY since all the skills and their names can be accessed from your Hero window, is NOT AN EXCUSE for not knowing your class. ESPECIALLY in a 30+ Fractals run, which should, without any doubt, be composed of players that know their profession.

Oh, so if I learn the names of all skills, I automatically know my class? Because I memorized some names? Yeah, truly exceptional.

If I truly were trying to embarrass those players, I’d put their names up. Another point goes out the window. And so what if we failed to complete it? We still got further than we did without it. Anything left can be chalked up to bad party chemistry.

Because, obviously, I meant the topic, not the way you talked to them in the party. No, wait, that makes no sense.

And honestly, as soon as you started advocating single weapon use, your argument pretty much invalidated itself. Arenanet even STATED that during the course of a dungeon it would be natural to assume different roles even for a specific profession. And don’t you just THINK for a moment that sometimes, requesting that someone bring a certain skill isn’t for the purpose of improving their individual performance but for IMPROVING THE PERFORMANCE OF THE PARTY AS A WHOLE, which is the purpose of running a dungeon IN A PARTY?

Which means that you can never complete that fractal unless you bring…3 elementalists? Cause with all you rleet skills, you still failed. As far as I remember, they said you can build your cha any way you want and complete dungeons with any combination. But then again, you are the one failing fotm thus I must really suck, right?

Swirling Winds is easily a skill that can boost party survivability as a whole in that fight. I’m pretty good at dodging the Agony Arrows from the Grawl Boss as well as dealing with the adds, but when I see that others aren’t, I want to try to devise solutions to keep us from having dead party members for most of the fight.

Which is no reason to get on your high horse.

Your argument that just because you are the most comfortable with the staff that it is the only weapon you should NEED in a fight is not only selfish but will ultimately become detrimental to whichever party you’re in (by the way, you can’t AoE reflect/nullify projectiles with traits and utilities unless you already happen to have 30 in water so you can share Magnetic Aura, and by then you’re already doing suboptimal damage). Continued wipes dictate changes in strategy to suit the skill level and strengths of each party member. That’s how a party works, that’s how it becomes a cohesive whole instead of 5 people that happen to be playing alongside each other.

So, tell me, how did that work out for you? That’s right, it didn’t.

But you’re always welcome to stick to a staff if I ever find you in my party. I always enjoy another stationary channeling body as a meat shield to hide behind from projectiles. Love the way they work in this game.

Nah, dun worry, we ever end up in the same party, I won;t stick around. I have this issue with know-it-all-wanna-be-pro-giving-orders-to-everybody players. You so awesome, go solo it. So nobody can screw it up for you^^ Wish you the best of luck.

Waraxx.4286:

firstly I am the OP so i think i read it.

Are you…like…sure? xD

I also said that items that are trade-able can be included in the gold price. you can’t trade karma , or obsidian stones. you can’t trade dungeon tokens or badges of honor. you can’t trade gift of exploration or skill points.those things you have to do yourself ( or at least your account have to do it in some form)
translating karma or skillpoints to gold in this conversation wouldn’t serve any purpose considering it cannot be traded.

when we are taling about a cost of a item that is crafted ie legendarys or high end weapons we say it costs this:

X amount of karma. ( it isn’t 100% true any longer because obsidian stones can be acquired from the fractals)
X amount of skillpoints
X amount of dungeons or/and badges
X amount of gold ( and here we also include all the mats needed in the form of how much they are worth on the current market house.
+ other things (i,e gift of exploration.)

Even if you find everything yourself in the world that you need for something you want to craft. if you craft it, it costs you something because the mats you used had a value in gold. and the materials you use, could potentially been used to get gold. so we are rather speaking of potential gold rather than actual gold. in terms of actual gold yes, only 120 is needed. but in terms of potential gold we are talking about 700+g for some. and some legendary even are 1000+g and some legendarys are below 400.

This also sounds really good…until you realise that Legendaries can be sold. Which basically puts a price on the karma, tokens badges etc and in theory makes the whole weapon entirely gold based. BUT you don’t need to spend 400g or 1000g. The only mandatory gold is for the runestones and the recipes(since you insist). That’s the basically intended gold part. The rest of the gold “cost” is selfmade. To further go into gold vs rest…
- you can buy wvwvw siege with badges or gold, putting 100 badges at 1g and giving those a gold value as well
- you can buy dungeon armour with tokens and salvage for ecto which also has a gold value(around 1s per token)
- you can buy cooking ingredients with karma and sell the product which puts a gold value on karma as well
Pretty much everything has a gold value, one way or another, but that doesn’t make the gold part of the legendary any less proportional. It simply allows you to choose whether you want to farm all parts or if you’d rather get gold instead.

and its funny you don’t count the recipes xD. don’t you count the dungeon tokens either? because the time to get those recieps are roughly equal to the time required to afford the dungeon gifts.
just say you forgot about them instead of blaming on that you don’t count them, please. i was only teasing you :P

Well, ofc I forgot about them. Because I don’t see them as relevant to the big picture. I have a list with stuff to get and they didn’t make it on it. For you that might be true(bout the dungeon tokens)…for me…I can get 20g in 2 days of trying hard or 4 days of 1h play . I can’t get gift of Zhaitan like that….it’s the scariest part for me xD

Not fotm fault, your server’s. Arah on Underworld is barely ever contested. Btw, if you just look from LA, it’ll show as contested but become available as soon as you port to CS. Dunno why…

Diva.4706:

Because a cash player can be equal simply kills the game for me . It stops being a game where you earn status and rewards, you just buy it. I don’t wish to play in an environment where the company is fine with you just buying your way through the game. If you are fine with it, go and have fun. I am done here.

Good riddance, I’d say. I’m perfectly fine with people paying to miss out on the fun in the game.

Waraxx.4286:

@TWMagimay
you are wrong on 2 points; firstly when we speak of gold we speak of anything that can be traded via gold. i.e lodestones, predecessors and ectos. so if something costs 1 lodestone and 2 gold. the price on that craft would simply be the 2g + the cost of the lodestone on the current market. so when you compare 100g to 500 badges and so on, the comparison should rather be with 800g to everything else because the farmable materials can be bought of gold. it isn’t a 100% true comparison but its the closest we can get. the purpose on this is to simplify how much something cost to make. it’s alot easier to say it costs 10g to craft said item instead of 10 vials of blod and 20 ectos and whatever more is needed.

secondly: even if we didn’t count this way, the minimal cost would be 120g

First, you don’t need that gold. If you read OP, he’s saying that the gold needed is too much compared to the rest. If we apply your logic to it, you need 1000-2500g and you are done. Which would mean 0 karma, 0 tokens, 0 badges, just gold and make this entire topic completely redundant.

Second…eh, recipes…i dun really count those…cause, well, they are smth you get in 2-3 days tops…

Thoom.9653:

How do you actually see people chatting through all the loot spam?

I have my chat window bigger so it displays more stuff. Also, I can actually, ya know, see stuff due to not being blind.

Because it could easily be so much better.

How exactly would that happen?

So when I join a dungeon group I just stop talking to my friends until it’s over? That’s a bad solution if I’ve ever heard one.

Yes. Or you use whatever braincells you have left and come up with a different plan. Your problems are much deeper than game design.
1. You can’t be bothered to play with your real life friends because they are holding you back.
2. You and your real life friends are in different guilds.
3. You and your real life friends have absolutely no way to communicate outside a game.
I’m starting to think, your real life friends are neither real life nor friends.

Aphix.9846:

but still miss ~ 400g for my legendary… (also have bloodstone shard + 70 sp (on average u need 350sp, not 500…)

Gold needed is 100g, how can you be missing 400g? You owe 300 to a loan shark or smth?

Waraxx.4286:

this is not about the time or how hard they are to get. it is the proportion between the different parts that is karma gold sillpoints dungeon badges etc. i’m sorry if i was unclear about that.

Let’s see…
100g vs 1mil karma vs 500 badges vs 500 dungeon tokens vs a bunch of farm mats vs 500 skill points.
True, it’s not proportional, they should increase the gold part of it to match the rest. I’d say, 500g would be good, since it seems to be a pattern.

Is it just me or did they put a limit on how many Passiflora nodes an be picked a day on a single char? Last week they had a comfortable 1h respawn rate. This week…at some point all nodes just go poooof(they are on the map, i can see them, i pick one and everything else is suddenly gone). Which puts them on par with ori nodes….

I don’t get it…

1. They put in the option, it just isn;t…good enough for you? Oh, and people who care to see when smb logs in do have that visible. In the main chat window.

2. And that’s a GW2 problem…how exactly? You can’t be asked to do stuff with your friends, the game hasn’t locked you out of those maps. And they actually improved drops lately, I’m getting lvl 70+ whites for CF. Seriously, you have nobody to blame but yourself. Or is the game supposed to adjust all your schedules so you can always be online at the same time? That’s some serious AI you ask for there….

3. Meet party chat. This groundbreaking invention even works between servers. Half my guild is spread between different servers and we still manage to play together, yet you can’t even find ways to communicate with your real life friends. My mother lives over 2000km away and I can still talk to her whenever I want to. Welcome to the perks of the 21st century, start using them!

Raine.1394:

Again, one’s enjoyment of a grind has no bearing on whether it’s forced. If you must do it to continue playing the game, it is forced. I’m sorry but you really can’t get around this one. You can say that I’m free to leave the game, but you can’t say I’m free to stay in a game with vertical progression if I don’t want to do the grind. Grindy games don’t work that way—I know as I played WoW for years and came to GW2 to get away from the grind.

I have yet to force smb into doing smth they enjoy. People tend to volunteer for those.
Because, ammm, they enjoy it. They like it. It’s fun for them.

If you disagree, then define vertical progression in a way that doesn’t lead to a forced gear grind. Absent that other definition, which doesn’t exist by the way, you will be forced to agree with me.

I already did. 2 times. I’ll try again.
Basically, what you are saying is, you don’t do WvWvW, you don’t do DEs, you don’t do open world farming, you don’t do any dungeons. What exactly is it that you do in this game?! If you did any of those things, you’d never have to “hop on the treadmill”, you’d already be on it, doing stuff you enjoy. Because people who do:
- WvWvW/DEs acquire karma through a natural(aka, the opposite of forced) way and get gear with that
- open world farming acquire crafting materials naturally(the opposite of forced) and get gear that way
- dungeons acquire tokens naturally(aka, the opposite of forced) and get gear that way
I’m not disagreeing with vertical progression or grind(theoretically, every aspect of every game can be called “grind” which makes it redundant anyway). I’m questioning the “forced” part of your posts. Let’s go over the definition of that word from thefreedictionary:
1. Imposed by force; involuntary
2. Produced under strain; not spontaneous

1. done because of force
2. false or unnatural
3. due to an emergency or necessity a forced landing
4. (Physics / General Physics) Physics caused by an external agency

Now, if you wouldn’t volunteer to do any of the above activities, I’m fairly certain that GW2 isn’t the game for you. But I’m equally certain that most people are currently doing at least one of those things on regular basis, out of their own free will. I know that I’ll have ascended set in a matter of days, because I farm a lot. My fiancé will prob have it on the first day, cause he’s in WvWvW all the time and it’s raining karma…

Maestro.5376:

I was running Fractals 30+ with a non-heavy party the other day. We unfortunately got grawl but got to the final boss. After wiping a few times, I noticed both the Elementalists were using Staff, so I asked if they could switch to using Swirling Winds, since it’s very useful when the adds spawn to keep excessive damage of of your group. To my utter shock, neither of them actually knew what that was. One of them said the skill didn’t exist, and the other confused it with Tornado.

I ended up having to explain to them that the skill was a projectile-nullification skill in slot 4 of Air Attunement Focus. And then they had to dig through their inventories for Foci/Scepters.

You do realise that eles have 60 weapon skills(+25 more from conjures). A mesmer has 24(just to compare). Do you seriously expect anybody to know every single name? If you gave me that name, I’d probably blink a few times while counting all air skills to figure out which one of them is swirly enough to have that name(since I’m, like, 80% sure it’s not a utility). If you were to say “that projective-nullification skill”, I’d instantly think of focus air4. Point being, I find this part of your post very…high horsey. It’s like you were trying to embarrass those players and show how “smart” you are. And the funny part is, you still failed to complete it even though they got the weapons thus no progress was made that day….

As for the actual topic…people choose their weapon sets for a reason. I’m a staff ele. I can play it blindfolded and perform pretty good. If I need adjustments, I can easily get those through traits/unitlities. If I switch to another weapon, I become less efficient. Simply because I lack practice with it(and enjoyment thus the no practice thing). It’s not a “win” kind of advice, imo. You are sacrificing a player who knows exactly what s/he is doing for 1 skill. And those who can work all weapons equally good…well, they already have and use all those weapons making your pro tip redundant.

Raine.1394:

BTW, you can take the ‘enjoy’ out of your definition of forced grinds. Forced grinds are forced whether you enjoy them or not. There are people who enjoy grinding and that’s why we have games like WoW which are successful with vertical progression and a gear grind. But I don’t understand your distinctions. I get that by your definition we currently have a forced grind with Ascended gear and FotM. But, you seem to be drawing a distinction of some kind between what GW2 is and what a forced grind is. Are you saying that there is or will be no forced grind, or are you saying that they will give up the current forced grind and conveniently locate treadmills throughout the game? Wouldn’t that just be distributing the forced grind? It’s not clear to me what you are saying about the game and forced grinds.

If you enjoy it, it’s not forced, it’s just grind. Forced is, by definition, involuntary and the product of an outside force. You would be the first person I ever met who enjoys things against their will….
You are under no obligation to get ascended gear right now. The only reason to get those items is if you want to farm fotm in the first place and they are a by-product of farming fotm. Which means you are still not forced to do anything you don’t want to.
The rest of the gear in the game is entirely based on choice which is pretty much the opposite of forced and there is no reason to believe that once the actual progression comes it’ll be any different.

Gaudrath.6725:

Well, my main is actually an elementalist, I was just talking about the lack of a good legendary staff for necros, not lack of good necro staff skins.

Frankly, I’d rather have 10 perfectly good skins for under 30g each than 1 good skin for 800g. But that’s just me…always looking for a good deal xD