Guild Wars 2

You had Wall of Reflect, no? You could have just used that when she went to spray poison. Also, achievement points and multiple legendary weapons don’t make you a skilled player.

Also, Axes on Warrior is more damage than GS.

Leo G.4501:

Is a 10% damage buff that huge? I mean, yes it’s an impressive buff, but you’re trying to tell me that 10% damage = Iwin?

It’s more like a 7% damage boost to the whole party. It’s pretty big. Combine that with Spotter and Ranger is a huge plus to a group, providing they can actually play the class well.

jportell.2197:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I just so happen to have a video of this: http://youtu.be/Gvpg3ExM6m8

But yes, one will need to be traited with Vigorous Spirits and the other will need to be untraited.

So is this a bug. Because two spirit rangers=anyone near by insta dead.

I’m not sure if it’s a bug or not. It could be a bug if the buffs you get aren’t intended to be different, but I’m not sure. I also don’t really think that it’s worth taking a second Frost Spirit just for the extra 35% chance.

I just so happen to have a video of this: http://youtu.be/Gvpg3ExM6m8

But yes, one will need to be traited with Vigorous Spirits and the other will need to be untraited.

I think I could beat your damage on my Ranger

But nice job, it’s good to see other Rangers using a Sword!

This….. This is good.

Vox Hollow.2736:

If you are unable to play them, you’ll either complain that it’s too hard, that I’m not being helpful, or you’ll try to improve.

Now, now, no need to get so defensive.
I think you’re very intelligent and highly skilled, and speedrunners would be fools not the change their meta in light of your discoveries. If I’m raising concerns, it’s because I genuinely think the speedrun culture could use a healthy dose of pragmatism every so now and again. I’m not the sort of woman that would go around being contrary just to demean your accomplishments or try to injure your pride.

I don’t mean anything malicious, so I’d appreciate it if you disagreed with me without being so passive aggressive about it.

Nothing about that statement was defensive. You can genuinely raise your concerns, but that doesn’t mean you are right. There will always be plenty of people complaining about what I do, but I don’t make videos to help those people. I do what I do to help those who want to improve. It’s as simple as that.

Vox Hollow.2736:

You know what I mean, captain snarky.
The numbers themselves are totally sensible for the size of our HP pools, the problem areas with healing build options is that need for group recovery is too situational. Healing Power could scale 100 times what it does now, and we would still have a zerker meta.

Right, because it would be faster for clearing dungeons and Healing Power would still be useless. The stat itself is worthless so the scaling is irrelevant.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I think ‘good’ and ‘bad’ is oversimplifying the situation.

Glass cannon builds play well with other glass cannon builds. They work specifically because guy next to you is doing the same thing, and the guy next to him is doing the same thing, and the guy next to him is doing the same thing. By qualifying your run as a speedrun, you attract other players who have that same sort of a build, so things just sort of naturally pan out.

For a variety of reasons, you just can’t make that same assumption in normal pug play. Calling that good play or bad play just isn’t a productive line of thought. It simply is, and you either adapt to that or you don’t. If you run a normal pug operating under the same assumptions you do a speedrun, you’re setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment.

This has always been true.
The reason I feel more inclined to remark on your video is specifically because what you’ve managed here is such a feat of mechanical engineering. It’s a successful build comprised of three creatures that can’t dodge, in a game where content is trivialized by dodging. That’s awesome. But it’s also glass cannoningst glass cannon that ever lived (with a skyscraper skill floor to boot).

Can you really blame me for thinking it might be kind of a dangerous thing for pugs?

I play these builds in pug groups and I don’t really have problems doing so. If you are able to play them, you’ll do fine. If you are unable to play them, you’ll either complain that it’s too hard, that I’m not being helpful, or you’ll try to improve.

Shiren.9532:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Shiren.9532:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Player Character.9467:

Zenith.7301:

I know the ranger build, but can anyone link the build the thieves were using? I’ve been having the itch to use my thief but whereas I’ve never been immediately kicked upon joining as a warrior or guardian, joining a speed group as a thief is just winning the lottery with the amount of ignorance surrounding the class’s effectiveness.

I mean, there are tons of people still kittened enough that claim thieves are weak in PvE, when I consider them not only a class rivaling warriors, but with even better utility for the purposes of speed runs and skipping content. I know my 48 dailies on dredge go a lot smoother with a thief, in fact most fractals do.

Playing my thief is just so much more fun than playing a warrior ;*(.

I’d also kill to get a build for berserker ranger that can be used in speed runs/fractal 48 as well.

I mostly play warrior or mesmer or ranger.

Thief requires people smart enough to use fields and blast finishers AKA not most pug speed runs.

Stop trying to speedrun with pugs.

When these threads stop trying to change the pug meta with Build Wars set ups that might happen. For as long as people are heralding highly optimised party builds as meta changing examples of what the classes can do, people will try to speed run with pugs.

If you want to tear down general dungeon running pug builds, do it in a pug. If you want to demonstrate to the speed clearing subset of the community, be clear about the difference.

You don’t want us to try and help the community by pushing more skilled play?

What do you think skilled play is? You certainly completed this dungeon very fast, but almost every encounter was auto-attack. I understand it’s the most efficient DPS on the weapon, but it’s not skilled play. The bosses are all dieing before any challenge becomes present. It’s not helping the pug community because the pug community will never be a reliable source of the builds required to support this playstyle. The Build Wars side of this is very impressive, you guys obviously have a good grasp of how to break PvE content and what kinds of traits and optimised damage set ups are required to maximise DPS, but auto-attack the boss to death in seconds is not skilled play. I don’t say that to dump on what you did, but you’re not dodging, you’re not showing perfect use of evades, you’re not implementing clever tricks with snares, you’re simply breaking the content through raw DPS and auto-attacks.

What you are pushing here is optimised builds, which is a speed clear thing, it’s not going to be a pug thing because the reality of pugs is that you will have staff eles their first time in, bow warriors because they don’t like melee, axe rangers with boars because they like how they look and pistol thieves because they hate being glass.

The amount of refinement in that video does not come from autoattacking, it comes from a very deep understanding of classes, builds, and what to do with them. Autoattacking with Sword is easier in this situation than it is in a lot of others because of how quickly things die. This is not the case in other dungeons, and it requires a good bit of skill not to die while playing with a Sword on Ranger.

Furthermore, I’d probably still be kitten kitten ing around with Soldier’s gear on my Guardian if it weren’t for seeing videos of speedclears and high DPS groups. These videos interest some people and inspire them to become better players. Just because you want to call me out and say that I’m not helping doesn’t mean that everyone feels this way. Sure there will always be bad players that don’t care, people like that probably won’t care about what my guild does or how fast we can do it. The people that may be on the fence about a build or may see these videos and want to improve are the people that will care, and I hope that they see videos like this. The rest of the people that want to complain can waste their time doing something else.

Redball.7236:

The problem isn’t the class and has never been the class, the problem is with players.
There are several people such as Brazil and Chopps that have shown that when played well, ranger can be amazing.

No, Chopps hasn’t demonstrated this at all.

Broadicea.8294:

stealth at 34s, sparks in at 1:06, stealth at 1:19, sparks in at 1:46, stealth at 2:06, sparks in at 3:00, dead at 3:29.

45 seconds stealth to stealth (except for one where she gave you an extra couple seconds for some reason), and even with a spark pull that lasted longer than a stealth window she gave you enough time to DPS her the rest of the way. The scenario the bug crowd is describing is her popping back at 50% and not giving a full 45 second stealth to stealth window.

I don’t know why some people are getting 45 and some are getting 55, that’s kind of odd. But your vid shows normal behavior as far as I can tell. It’s the stealth-to-stealth window that flips out (I still believe), though we don’t have any video evidence of that yet.

The times for DPSing were normal, it was that there were sparks out attacking people while Simin was active.

That is some pretty weird stuff. It’s a shame they kicked you after all of that :/

Kicking in path 4 after Simin. Some fantastic people there. And I’m anxious to see the bug you had with the fight. At least you got something out of it

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Wethospu.6437:

Can’t you Fear them against corner or something? That at least sounds useful to me.

http://youtu.be/_KhPMi1GIc4?t=4m20s

Video evidence of this happening.

Also nice thread OP. I’m a huge advocate of being open minded.

That’s a great example of a properly used fear.

don’t you worry, I’ve got your back on this one

Since I like cookie cutter DPS Guardian:

http://youtu.be/NoXwp94Bltk

Wethospu.6437:

Can’t you Fear them against corner or something? That at least sounds useful to me.

http://youtu.be/_KhPMi1GIc4?t=4m20s

Video evidence of this happening.

Also nice thread OP. I’m a huge advocate of being open minded.

Conan.8046:

And what is this now about “Oh Ranger is spam 1 with autoattack that doesn’t sound hard.” Do people just complain about this with every single class now?

Can see your bar in the video all you do is spam 1 (in the final boss fight) and no people don’t complain about that on every class. Ever seen a warrior complain about it? thief? Engineer…highly doubtful.

Skill has nothing to do with it. Did you do good damage? yes, then your goal was achieved. You hit one button and managed it, not your fault ranger is simple in pve.

“Warrior is spam 1 with Axes”
“Just press Hundred Blades and you win”

People complain about how simple other classes are all the time. Also, if you think that Sword Ranger is simple in PvE, you’ve clearly not played it. It takes a lot of practicing and getting used to before you can actually go into a dungeon and not die in every single fight. So yes, skill has something to do with it.

Chopps.5047:

Conan.8046:

A lot of ranger refuse to or dont know how to keep thier pets alive. Giving fuel to the notion that we do less damage. Some ranger refuse to master the 1h sword or melee in general adding to the fuel that we have less dps

1h sword mastery – 1111111111111111111111 sounds difficult.
Watch the video above…that’s all he does.

Meh, Brazil didn’t do too well in that video. He let his pets die and even started RaO with a dead pet out. I would not say he’s pro at ranger, conan. But he sure isn’t bad and has done some excellent theorycrafting.

You mean starting Rampage as One in the room with the pylons? I used it for Stability and Swiftness to get into the room with the Effigy as quickly as possible without getting a bugged weapon swap or being stuck in combat with GS. We also had plenty of Might stacks the whole fight and permanent Fury so Rampage as One would have been useless to me anyways. I needed the blast finisher from my Warhorn for might stacking and Fury in the Warrior’s fire field. You also might want to note that I swapped to let my Jungle Stalker purposefully die in the pylon room so that I would have Jaguar up for the boss fight, which I swapped to as soon as the fight started. The one thing you could point out that I did wrong was swapping pets too late before letting Fortifying Bond take affect on my Jaguar, that’s a matter of me trying to think about too many things at once. A pro at Ranger? Perhaps I’m not quite there yet, but calling me “not bad” is almost insulting, especially since you weren’t able to see the reasoning for why I did what I did.

And what is this now about “Oh Ranger is spam 1 with autoattack that doesn’t sound hard.” Do people just complain about this with every single class now?

Also, this video here from Chopps is probably a better demonstration of how to play a Ranger: http://youtu.be/75xWbWmN4Xc

ilr.9675:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

But you don’t have a video of it, do you?

And your videos only show what normally happens anyway. IE: you’re attempting to disprove an unkown, or attempting to say b/c you have 3 videos of it not happening, that it never ever happens. Yeah that’s how bugs work…. </sarcasm>

…except for the sparks showing up after her defeat… no I can’t comment on that one.
Either way… all you do is talk past me, and ignore all of the data I’ve provided. I can only assume you do this and make videos instead, b/c you don’t understand programming. THAT’S FINE. Most people don’t. Just say “I don’t believe you” and move on. There was never any reason to drag this out into an argument. It’s not a popularity contest… and there’s no reason to try and convinvce Anet NOT TO INVESTIGATE THIS. Is that what you’re trying to do?? B/c I can’t for the life of me explain why you wouldn’t let this go and let the experts handle it. It’s not a job for D.P.S.‘perts. It’s a job for the guys who have the source code sitting right in front of them.

Here’s a question that defies all your Expertise as well:
When was the last time you took longer than 3 hours to get to Simin?

Yes my videos show what normally happens because there isn’t anything wrong with the fight. And the last time it took longer than 3 hours to get to Simin? About a month ago. I’ve also joined groups that have been stuck at Simin alone for hours because they couldn’t figure out what the sparks did. I showed them what to do, boom. First attempt and she’s dead in a few phases. No bug there, either. Calm down and think critically.

I’ll just say that I’ve done path 4 with the same resolve of a CoF farmer in hopes of getting the recipe. All of that and I’ve not had a problem with Simin (aside from the first 2 times I did it while I was learning the fight). All of that being said, I’d like to see a video of this “bug” happening so I can get a feel for what is going on and see what causes it. #Science

I would love to see all of these problems people are having. I simply haven’t encountered them and I’d wager I’ve done more path 4’s than everyone who has posted here combined.

Vox Hollow.2736:

You don’t want us to try and help the community by pushing more skilled play?

Not really, no.
The point of giving people advice is that it’s something they can realistically find useful, not a demonstration of prowess that when attempted will likely get them killed. Advice is like; If you want to play aggressively mix in knights with your berserker gear until you reach a comfortable equilibrium, and then as you learn the finer points of damage avoidance start mixing more berserkers back in. ‘See what me and my awesome glass cannon friends can do on this one specific ridiculously easy path’ is not useful advice. That’s bragging.

(Not that’s it’s your fault the community’s so mixed up proof of concept for a build comes down to that.)

Yes it’s bragging, we reclaimed a record. I make build guides and videos to help people out, this video in particular is demonstrating A) how optimized our group is how fantastic Ranger is C) how much of a baller I am. Hand-holding is fine, but so is throwing someone into a situation and making them learn things on their own by using their critical thinking skills.

I just need a pet Skritt for that.

ilr.9675:

Accusing us of having 30 second spark pulls when my very first post about it said they were 15… followed by 7 seconds to beat on her. … We get it, you don’t think it’s a bug. Now get this… she never got over 55% health when we were pulling sparks. And definitely no where near 65%.

Also not asking Anet to make spark pull time not factor into the DPS-window. Obviously it’s easy enough already. … Just want them to fix how their stupid NPC’s can’t be reset when something really buggy actually DOES happen to them. (like Simin standing there fighting us for 3 straight minutes @ exactly 51% HP which you still haven’t explained).

But you don’t have a video of it, do you? I mean unless you’ve posted a video and I’ve missed it, saying that you brought the sparks in 15 seconds and only got 7 seconds to DPS her means nothing to me.

She sits there for 3 minutes and does nothing? I have no idea. I don’t want to go bug hunting for something else like that, I’ve done enough path 4s for now. If you were to go in and record fights and find something I’ve not found after doing the best job I can searching, I’d happily watch your videos and side with you if it looked like a problem. The reason I spent hours doing this in the first place was get video evidence of a problem so the developers could see it and do something about it.

Wukunlin.8461:

I threw up a little thinking about how many times you did the grenth fight over the past few days

We figured out how to pull the Wraiths out of their circles and bring them into the middle, so that makes it a bit easier…. It still sucks though.

Shiren.9532:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Player Character.9467:

Zenith.7301:

I know the ranger build, but can anyone link the build the thieves were using? I’ve been having the itch to use my thief but whereas I’ve never been immediately kicked upon joining as a warrior or guardian, joining a speed group as a thief is just winning the lottery with the amount of ignorance surrounding the class’s effectiveness.

I mean, there are tons of people still kittened enough that claim thieves are weak in PvE, when I consider them not only a class rivaling warriors, but with even better utility for the purposes of speed runs and skipping content. I know my 48 dailies on dredge go a lot smoother with a thief, in fact most fractals do.

Playing my thief is just so much more fun than playing a warrior ;*(.

I’d also kill to get a build for berserker ranger that can be used in speed runs/fractal 48 as well.

I mostly play warrior or mesmer or ranger.

Thief requires people smart enough to use fields and blast finishers AKA not most pug speed runs.

Stop trying to speedrun with pugs.

When these threads stop trying to change the pug meta with Build Wars set ups that might happen. For as long as people are heralding highly optimised party builds as meta changing examples of what the classes can do, people will try to speed run with pugs.

If you want to tear down general dungeon running pug builds, do it in a pug. If you want to demonstrate to the speed clearing subset of the community, be clear about the difference.

You don’t want us to try and help the community by pushing more skilled play?

http://youtu.be/nmFx8KIb26Q

I think I figured it out, finally.

Yaki.9563:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

bunnyandbear.5734:

Yes this happened to us the other night in AC. We killed the last boss, guy ran over and got chest and then left so it kicked everyone out and then the kittenbag logged out so when I went to talk to him about it he was offline. Fix this kitten now!

The only chest near the end of AC is the one you get for completing the event before Ghost Eater. You can get that chest before even interacting with the last boss. If you did path 2 and didn’t get that chest earlier, it’s not really the party leader’s responsibility to make sure everyone has it before he leaves the group. People have other things to do.

He shouldn’t be “leader” then.

He’s not the “leader,” he’s usually the first one in with story mode that got tired of waiting on people standing in Lion’s Arch. He’s the instance creator and his position is not one of authority.

Dub.1273:

What about 25 in Honor for 10% damage at low endurance?

Only if you don’t get trolled by Vigorous Precision.

Wukunlin.8461:

so where’s guang?

Laughing from deep within his bat cave.

I think we’ll probably break it again tomorrow. Shoot for under 5:20 or so.

http://youtu.be/PWQ-39_C8LI

I guess we won.

There’s not a dungeon team anymore and the outcry from AC probably discouraged and future updates. That’s what it seems like, at least.

Dolan.3071:

How do you do this by accident? Are you really in such a hurry to disband the party? You can just leave the instance first, and the loading of the next area gives more than enough time for the slackers to make it to the chest, then you can leave party and boot everyone.

People are in a hurry to move on and it isn’t their job to babysit the rest of the group until they get their loot.

haviz.1340:

Since this topic (like almost every other) has been derailed, let’s conclude. Rangers are bad unless you have 2 nannies watching over them. Agree/disagree?

You see the evidence and you disregard it. Or maybe you actually haven’t seen it?

haviz.1340:

It’s a ra(n)ger thread.

Ranger is good.

swiftpaw.6397:

I like this.. it’s Team Obal against Team Haviz!

Who will win?!?!

TIME SHALL TELL!

Personally I’m going for team Swiftpaw, because nobody likes team Swiftpaw >:(

I’ll be your zealot, but you have to play Ranger.

I’m not one for hand-holding, but saying “you have false information in your post” or whatever the case may be isn’t being helpful. Those are not the only 2 options for telling someone how to overcome an obstacle, either. I don’t know why you seem to think they are. You don’t have to babysit someone and explain every little detail to them, but you can give advice and explain things. Vague comments offer nothing and there is really no point to them.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

There’s a difference between saying you like someone and defending their every word against any potential negative comment.

Yes, most definitely.

mike.7685:

See Haviz, you have zealots too. All it takes is a little negativity… Thanks for proving my point.

That…. That was art.

haviz.1340:

Everytime I say that obal is wrong in his guides (that for some reason they think is an insult) I got a reply which defends obal and tries to discredit me.

No, I don’t want to be called an Obal Zealot. I actually agree with you on this.

swiftpaw.6397:

There needs to be a real motivation to do dungeons. Exo gear is easy to get, what’s left is grinding out money for legendaries. How about some new exclusive skins available only through hard mode?

The Bloodstone Fragment recipe keeps me going.

swiftpaw.6397:

Someone did this the other day in a pug SE. Turned out to be the ranger with 8k AP, a longbow and axe/WH setup with double bear pets.. I should have known better.

It was my alt account.

bunnyandbear.5734:

Yes this happened to us the other night in AC. We killed the last boss, guy ran over and got chest and then left so it kicked everyone out and then the kittenbag logged out so when I went to talk to him about it he was offline. Fix this kitten now!

The only chest near the end of AC is the one you get for completing the event before Ghost Eater. You can get that chest before even interacting with the last boss. If you did path 2 and didn’t get that chest earlier, it’s not really the party leader’s responsibility to make sure everyone has it before he leaves the group. People have other things to do.

I don’t know why you would want to repeat story mode on one character.

Zenith.7301:

The ranger just takes far to much effort for the middling results he provides.

He’s like a worse version of the lightning hammer ele. Both require heavy group composition adjustment and much more careful play, yet at least the ele can surpass a warrior’s output when provided with the right circumstances. The ranger doesn’t.

It’s just grating to play a ranger. I’ve tried that spec a long time ago, and the fact is the average warrior or guardian will provide far more consistent results at less effort put in, with much lesser risk involved.

And there’s something deeply annoying about the fact that your class mechanic is dead on arrival for most “hardcore” content because developers are pigheaded about introducing WoW’s aoe avoidance/damage reduction for pets/minions in this game.

Ranger doesn’t require changing anything about the group composition aside from replacing a Warrior. Ranger DPS is on par with Warrior, not to mention you are boosting everyone else’s DPS by 12%.

Sure, it’s more difficult to play. It also feels a lot more fun and more rewarding for me to play Ranger instead of a Warrior, Guardian, or Mesmer. Maybe other people don’t feel the same, but I’m not slowing things down when I play Ranger, I improve them.

I don’t have problems with the pets for the most part. If a boss targets them with a single target attack, they will most likely die or take heavy damage. AoE doesn’t do anything to them for the most part, though. It could be improved, sure, but it’s not as bad as people claim it is.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I just want the dungeons to be fun, and not feel like a chore.

I feel like they are fun in their current state. It’s all a matter of opinion.

Bleeds also tick off hits of his shields. The more you know!

obal.3218:

The pets are cannon fodder and dead the 90%+ of the fight.

There’s the false information, everyone. It should be something like 97%.