Guild Wars 2

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Again, nothing that hasn’t been discussed before. The problem with boss tells isn’t just about you personally being able to see them. Because with enough repetition you can memorize any of the bad boss tells. The problem is that countless other games have bosses with much better tells, that would even be visible in the cluster of effects that is GW2. Boss attacks, especially those that are one-hit kills, should have clear audio cues, and clear visuals, that make it clear to the player that one move is more deadly than others.

To give you an example: Kholer has a tell for his harpoon attack, and many of you would argue that he is very clear. And he’s not. Not by comparison to better designed bosses in other games. Objectively, Kholer only raises his arm before attacking. This is the type of tell that is only visible if you’re standing relatively close to him, but it is a ranged attack. It can be hard to see if a lot of fire is being spammed by your party.

But another issue with it, is that there’s no clear sound before he does the attack, and it doesn’t look all that different from other attacks he does. Players need to know that something deadly is coming, and not through trial and error. Trial and error is bad.

Kholer could easily be improved upon, if he yelled out his attack, and lightning flashed above his head before doing the move. Mind you, this is just an example. I’m not saying this is how he should be changed. But other games do this much better. I’ve given Castlevania as an example before. You can see those boss moves coming from miles away, and that is how it should be. We are talking an instant kill move here after all. And Castlevania’s bosses do not have insta-kills. So is there any reason to defend the fact that bosses in GW2 have worse boss tells than Castlevania or God of War, when the attacks instantly kill you, and suffer from way less visibility due to the multiplayer aspect?

So yeah, kudos if you could spot Lupi’s grub summon move on your first time fighting him. But I bet that’s not what actually happened. I bet like all of us, you learned it through youtube videos or trial and error. That is not how I would have designed his boss tells. There’s a lot of room for improvement.

This is a problem with the player, not the game.

Thief single-target DPS is far higher than Warrior.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Malpractice.7850:

1st, why are you using a bear? its a tank pet. Low dmg, little buffs. At least a moa gives Fury and whatnot.

2nd; Why are you not leaving it on passive, or stowing pets between combat? It takes you 1 keystroke to do either. Stowing is always safer.

3rd why are people immature for wanting you not in blues? Its like 2gold to get all rare at 80… I had almost all rare all the way lvling…

Quit feeding to the mentality that rangers are kittened. Break the mold. Be intelligent, play smart. Youll not get kicked then.

Unlike most other pets, including Moa, Bear has a chance, if monitored well, of standing against an alpha strike without folding. Therefore, because it is a tanking pet it can continue doing its less damage rather than being dead and doing no damage. I would prefer a consistent source of low damage to none at all.

Why would you put your pet on passive or stow it? What purpose does this serve when the pet doesn’t attract agro?

It’s one thing to have all blues and another to have one or two. Even still, the actual stat difference between the two sets is not significant enough to have any meaningful inpact on ANY of the PvE content in the game.

Quit feeding the elitist mentality that these things are wrong or actually matter. Break the mold. Use reason. I’ve never been kicked from a group.

Alpha AoE doesn’t target pets, actually: http://youtu.be/Lwf-cpHjqQU

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Broadicea.8294:

Stealth to stealth after she goes at 50% should be 45 seconds. If you get anything other than that, video evidence is needed. It will throw off the timer if you take longer than 45 seconds, but that would mean an exceptionally kittened up/buggy spark run.

This might explain why the bug appears sometimes. PUGs often are bad/slow or have to reset just to regroup and may take longer than the 45 seconds. This might be throwing the timer off.

My first time through with the guild, we were slow, stopped, regrouped while we searched for strategies. Maybe we threw the timer off because we definately experienced the bug where we were not given a 45 second window.

Might explain why pros can’t really replicate the problem because they are too fast and already know the strategy and thus are probably not likely to go over the 45 second timer.

The sad thing is, if this is the case it is hurting new runners of the path the hardest while vets are not even noticing.

It’ll be hard to get video of this. Doubtful new PUGs are taping their first run.

It’s not a bug. You might want to watch this: http://youtu.be/nmFx8KIb26Q

aophts.9862:

I can’t believe people can solo legendary monsters, and a undead type with all the condition attacks and life steal. How the hell do i get good enough to do this??

:(

PS: btw, nice video, ty.

Hours and hours of practice.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

BabyDuckie.3725:

Does anyone else have issues seeing the boss animation through all the effects being applied.

I find that a lot of the time I have to zoom in to see the tell tale signs

I’ve already spend a whole topic on that subject. Yes, boss tells are terrible in the whole game. Not just because of all the effects spam, they are just unclear in general.

But that’s kind of derailing the topic.

Maybe if you play on a tiny screen in the lowest graphics settings with a very large UI.

If you were getting only 5-10 seconds to DPS, your Spark pulls were most likely too slow.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

AND AGAIN.
I never said the fight was broken. You really need to stop putting words in my mouth.
The third time I tried it party comp:
My Zerk armor/soldier’s trinket ele
Boon Guard
Heal Guard
2nd Boon Guard
Knight/iirc zerk trinkets? Guard

What ended up happening here was that we had gotten her to phase 2, and we were very slowly wittling her down. Then, as I ran to get sparks I was petrified, our tear thrower unpetrified me, spark aggro’d on her, she ran the spark to the middle, I ran the other spark, (the three at the front of the room had been successfully brought back) and when I had gotten the fifth spark to the statue, it aggro’d on the running back tear thrower, and thus slowed us down and brought her back to her 1st phase.

Our knight/zerk guard had to go (he was in the middle of a separation from his wife and was leaving the country the next morning, so he had no choice), we brought in another person, a guardian boon build friend of ours. He had a lot of experience with the path, we attempted, we couldn’t get the damage to cancel the healing enough, without having to do it 50 or so times, our group gave up.

Anyway, circumstances can prevent progress on this fight. The fight is not broken. Generally, from what I can tell, not bugged. For it to be done easily and effectively however, requires at least a little bit of DPS, in our case, our Knight/zerk guard. I don’t really consider my ele a power house, but I suppose that bit of DPS helps?

Also TBH my ele used to run around in sentinel’s/soldier trinkets before I got my zerk. I never could take on a Cursed Shore Vet with daggers even until I got my zerk gear.

Forgive me for putting words in your mouth, then. I’m used to people saying “DPS check” and “bug” in the same post followed by stories of not finishing the fight.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

There is not a DPS check. The problem for the most part is when people don’t know what to do. Stop complaining about “DPS checks” and bugs.

There is a DPS check, in some cases. My third time doing this path I ran with 4 boon guardians and my ele. Despite getting the sparks into their spots, we could never do enough DPS to cancel her healing, despite how quick we were with the sparks. I’m not saying you have to be full Zerk, but if none of your members is DPS spec’d even a little, problems can arise.

No, there is no DPS check. The problem is pulling the Sparks too slowly. Her healing is also very low compared to what it was at the start of the game. The fight is about organization, not DPS.

“Organization”. Listen, I know what happened in my group with the 4 guardians. I had completed the fight prior to this day. The 4 guardians were 4 of my best friends in the game. We were in mumble. We were organized. We literally did not do enough damage to cancel the healing that she was able to do in the 5 seconds it took us to bring the sparks to their cages in phase 2.

I would appreciate it if you stopped acting like you know everything there is to know about every group and every player who attempts this fight.

Considering I’ve done this fight close to 100 times with groups ranging from killing Simin in 2 phases with massive DPS to the fight being drawn out due to condition Necros, support Eles, and bunker Engis in the same group, I’ve got a pretty good idea of what the fight entails.

1. Put Simin in the corner, 1 person handles Tears
2. DPS
3. 2 people pull Sparks, the remaining 3 stay in the corner
4. DPS
5. Continue

This strategy will and has worked each time for me, aside from my first time in the dungeon due to people leaving and my group not being able to find replacements.

I never said you didn’t know the fight. I’m saying you don’t know every group or the situations that may arise. You must have some semblance of DPS, or at least not fully supportive builds, for this fight. If you don’t, it can take hours because you’re literally only knocking off her health by, I don’t know, 1/30th of her total health at a time?

Like I said, and I’ll repeat myself. I believe that you’re God-mode 1337 at all things Arah 4, but that does not mean you know everything about all groups, all party comps, all player style, etc etc.

If you are doing that little DPS to Simin, I don’t see how you would be able to fight a veteran in Cursed Shore, let alone get all the way to the near-end of path 4. Staff Ele autoattacks and Necros in Soldier’s gear that stack Wells will do VERY low DPS, and I’ve been in groups like that. I’ve seen quite a few interesting group compositions, I’ve had people that flat out didn’t listen and seemed to almost intentionally be prolonging the fight. None of those scenarios were game-breaking. I feel I’ve seen enough group compositions with varying levels of DPS to confidently say that the fight isn’t broken.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

There is not a DPS check. The problem for the most part is when people don’t know what to do. Stop complaining about “DPS checks” and bugs.

There is a DPS check, in some cases. My third time doing this path I ran with 4 boon guardians and my ele. Despite getting the sparks into their spots, we could never do enough DPS to cancel her healing, despite how quick we were with the sparks. I’m not saying you have to be full Zerk, but if none of your members is DPS spec’d even a little, problems can arise.

No, there is no DPS check. The problem is pulling the Sparks too slowly. Her healing is also very low compared to what it was at the start of the game. The fight is about organization, not DPS.

“Organization”. Listen, I know what happened in my group with the 4 guardians. I had completed the fight prior to this day. The 4 guardians were 4 of my best friends in the game. We were in mumble. We were organized. We literally did not do enough damage to cancel the healing that she was able to do in the 5 seconds it took us to bring the sparks to their cages in phase 2.

I would appreciate it if you stopped acting like you know everything there is to know about every group and every player who attempts this fight.

Considering I’ve done this fight close to 100 times with groups ranging from killing Simin in 2 phases with massive DPS to the fight being drawn out due to condition Necros, support Eles, and bunker Engis in the same group, I’ve got a pretty good idea of what the fight entails.

1. Put Simin in the corner, 1 person handles Tears
2. DPS
3. 2 people pull Sparks, the remaining 3 stay in the corner
4. DPS
5. Continue

This strategy will and has worked each time for me, aside from my first time in the dungeon due to people leaving and my group not being able to find replacements.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

There is not a DPS check. The problem for the most part is when people don’t know what to do. Stop complaining about “DPS checks” and bugs.

There is a DPS check, in some cases. My third time doing this path I ran with 4 boon guardians and my ele. Despite getting the sparks into their spots, we could never do enough DPS to cancel her healing, despite how quick we were with the sparks. I’m not saying you have to be full Zerk, but if none of your members is DPS spec’d even a little, problems can arise.

No, there is no DPS check. The problem is pulling the Sparks too slowly. Her healing is also very low compared to what it was at the start of the game. The fight is about organization, not DPS.

Wethospu.6437:

It’s still same boss on level 80. So I’m not really sure what’s your point.

The point is that you don’t melee it.

ilr.9675:

I liked fighting Kohler a lot better when he wasn’t constantly respawning Adds like elite Necros and Rangers who do even more damage than he does.

Worst change they could have made.

They have very little health and die easily to cleave or AoE.

There is not a DPS check. The problem for the most part is when people don’t know what to do. Stop complaining about “DPS checks” and bugs.

MY VOICE IS BETTER

I usually just range Bloomy, but I guess you are good.

Lighter.5631:

so the topic ended up talking about how agony one shot people at 50
what does this have to do with shout heal build, not to mention you can just go full zerker at 48 with no problem…i mean if make the dungeon longer is your thing, sure…

It’s not only Agony that does that. Mobs get to the point where they one-shot you even if you stack loads of Toughness and Vitality. You can really only rely on doing damage and making use of Blinds or Stuns while LoSing.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

SkyChef.5432:

OK, so people are sheep in game. And I’m pretty sure you are sheep in other things in life. So we are all sheep. Happy?
Sheep sheep here & sheep sheep there. Sheep sheep everywhere.

I live in New Zealand. There are indeed sheep everywhere.

I can confirm that New Zealand is full of sheep.

Ljiona.9142:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Ljiona.9142:

I am still surprised by how many people actually do dungeons. Then I am even more surprised by how many people actually do them over and over again. For the life of me, I cannot see how that is fun. I am just a weirdo.

We like making money and having cool stuff. We also enjoy being good at the game and killing things faster than the vast majority of players.

Yep, I am a weirdo because I really don’t care about those things. I like being the under dressed scrub that kills you with all your shiny gear. Now that is fun.

It’s only fun if you get the opportunity to achieve a goal like that, and that opportunity is sparse.

Ljiona.9142:

I am still surprised by how many people actually do dungeons. Then I am even more surprised by how many people actually do them over and over again. For the life of me, I cannot see how that is fun. I am just a weirdo.

We like making money and having cool stuff. We also enjoy being good at the game and killing things faster than the vast majority of players.

Player Character.9467:

This thread… man it was like brazil was just here, but this thread took it to a whole… nutha… level.

I agree with whatever that is supposed to mean.

Yaki.9563:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Oni Link.4621:

First of all: are we talking about PVP, PVE or WVW?

• PVP: Not worth. If you want to be a bunker-shouthealer go for Guardian
• WVW: I’m a newbie in that field.
• PVE: Absolutely worth. I’m currently running a build inspired by the “famous” Sonic Boon. I can share it if you want but it is 0-25-15-30-0 with 2 shouts (FGJ and SIO) and SoS for more dodges, HS as healing skill. Berserker jewelry and weapons (GS and LB) and Knight armor. You deal a high amount of damage while being a bit tanky with good AOE support (average 130 AOE HPS plus Might and Fury) and good self-sustain (average 660 HPS).

You actually deal very low damage while prolonging boss fights, letting them beat your team up even longer.

Your reasoning is incorrect. Long boss fights don’t kill people.

Longer fights lead to more opportunity for error and gives the boss more opportunities to attack. My reasoning is not incorrect, and I don’t believe I said that “long boss fights kill people.” Bosses kill people due to someone playing poorly, and the more opportunities the boss has to attack, the more you are enabling it to kill you. There is no need to prolong boss fights by wearing survivability gear, the best option is to buy Berserker’s gear and increase your skill level in order to avoid damage.

ilr.9675:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

ilr.9675:

Wukunlin.8461:

Why make a new thread?

Because people keep ignoring the pattern that the amount of time it takes to GET TO HER, might actually have something to do with why it breaks?

Curious, not sure what you mean? (Only replying because what you imply is interesting, I know this comment was meant for the person you quoted.)

Simple Computer science that’s consistent with many of their Open World encounters too lately. …. When a multi stage Event mob with more complex triggers is spawned, but left to idle too long, its global function calls in that instance’s memory can get mishandled or desyched. This is ONLY a theory though, and I have no one to actually help test it properly… (A bad pug might take the required Arrival time, but everyone on the forum would then ignore any Video proof of the bug by claiming that the group took 2-3 hours to get there and therefore they auto-fail the DPS test). So yeah if you do indeed enjoy interesting phenomena… then this little Paradox should make your day.

*Only a hypothesis

Molch.2078:

I like my AH Zerker/Knights guardian. I usually use him for pugs if I’m tired/had a long day and/or want to eat while playing. AH is the way to go

Exactly, it’s a lazy build that requires no effort to play and lowers skill level.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

He didn’t ask for a shout build, he asked if it was viable, worth it, and what the healing would be like. The healing is negligible and not worth wasting trait points, it won’t save you from poor playing, and I can’t find any reason that it would be considered viable. You can call it a matter of taste, but shout builds are simply inferior.

Mah, maybe, still not sure. The problem is that damage reduction doesn’t scale linearly as damage (double Toughness does not mean half damage). That’s why offensive builds are overall better than defensive builds. But still, going full damage with a selfish build is god kitten boring… you deal damage and nothing else :/ It may be the best role for a Warrior but sooooo boring…
I’ll try a full DPS build at Fractal and see results.

Empower Allies, Banners, Mace knockdown, Cripple, Vulnerability, Fury and Might. A build like 30/0/0/10/30 isn’t selfish. It provides the highest possible DPS for a Warrior, group DPS buffs, and a very useful knockdown. I don’t particularly enjoy playing Warrior, but I find it more fun than trying to be a poorly designed Guardian ripoff.

ilr.9675:

I blame Canada & Brazil

Hmmmm…. I’m not sure how I feel about that.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

The friends that I’ve made in Guild Wars are because of the guild that I’ve joined. Fortunately, I don’t need to learn much from Shout Heal Warrior pugs and Longbow Rangers that tell me I’m a noob for using melee weapons. Fortunately, the group of people I play with are quite skilled when it comes to dungeons so I never have to throw my self into a pug group and hope that they turn out to be good.

And if you honestly think that doing Fractals is not a waste of time, something is wrong. You don’t get a reward chest from 50+ since you can’t fight Jade Maw, and Fractal loot has consistently and frequently been nerfed into the ground to the point where it’s not worth doing. If a Warrior honestly thought that taking a Sonic Boon build into Fractal levels that high, he doesn’t know what he was doing. The only option worth taking at that point is a pure DPS build, because survivability won’t do a thing for you.

I don’t need pug enlightenment when the group of people I play with know what they are doing and understand the game.

I never said “not doing Fractals is a waste”, you misunderstood. I wanted to say “wanting to do Fractals but refusing to go with a PUG and not going because your friends are offline” is a waste.
And by the way the meeting I had was just an example, obviously is not something that happnes everyday XD
Anyway it should be interesting to meet someone that says you are a noob for not using melee weapons, never happened before O.o

If you remember my posts I never claimed my build is better or that it is the only way to do it. The OP asked for a Shout Healing build, I talked about it. Then the topic switched to banners and I explained why banners are not so “godlike” as you are saying. I was the first to change my build from shouts to banners but ended choosing shouts again for their mobility.
We can discuss for years, but we both know that in the end everyone will keep using his own build. Different scenarios, different builds.
I feel fine with my build, I keep having the aggro regardless of the boss which may or may not be a sign of its effectiveness. Anyway I like my sustain, my party like the sustain I give them because many times it saves them, especially on low HP pool classes.
De gustibus! ^^

He didn’t ask for a shout build, he asked if it was viable, worth it, and what the healing would be like. The healing is negligible and not worth wasting trait points, it won’t save you from poor playing, and I can’t find any reason that it would be considered viable. You can call it a matter of taste, but shout builds are simply inferior.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I know people that have pugged 60+ and people that have taken organized groups to 80. Playing with pugs will result in more headaches than playing with organized groups of people that know what they are doing. I’ve pugged 50+ and done organized runs in 50+ as well. Pugging is always worse.

That’s obvious ^^ But saying “I do not want to PUG because I want to play like that” and “I play like that because I do not want to PUG” is a waste.
Let me explain: why playing a global MMO if you want to play only with your friends?
It seems a waste to me :/ You won’t met new people, who may teach you something new or may just be good enough to let you say “kitten ! This Doesn’t seem a PUG, it’s like being organized!”.

This is exactly what happened to me, when I met a Warrior with fractal lvl 81 who suggested me to use Sonic Boon with some tweaks (because triple shout and rifle are a waste for Fractal purposes). He also taught me a lot of tricks with some consumable items (which were blocked some patches ago, kitten ArenaNet >.<). Great player. He was with a PUG be he never complained about our fails. He told us about our mistakes, told us how to fix them and taught us new things about Fractal.

Result? We can go with PUG without problem even over 50. So we can met new people Forcing yourself to play only with friends is really a waste.
And what if they are offline? No Fractal then? Another waste :/

The friends that I’ve made in Guild Wars are because of the guild that I’ve joined. Fortunately, I don’t need to learn much from Shout Heal Warrior pugs and Longbow Rangers that tell me I’m a noob for using melee weapons. Fortunately, the group of people I play with are quite skilled when it comes to dungeons so I never have to throw my self into a pug group and hope that they turn out to be good.

And if you honestly think that doing Fractals is not a waste of time, something is wrong. You don’t get a reward chest from 50+ since you can’t fight Jade Maw, and Fractal loot has consistently and frequently been nerfed into the ground to the point where it’s not worth doing. If a Warrior honestly thought that taking a Sonic Boon build into Fractal levels that high, he doesn’t know what he was doing. The only option worth taking at that point is a pure DPS build, because survivability won’t do a thing for you.

I don’t need pug enlightenment when the group of people I play with know what they are doing and understand the game.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dredge Fractal – Melee between 2 buckets, carry the banners a short distance.
Colossus Fractal – Multiple Guardians, usually 2. You have plenty of room to maneuver and not get hit.
Grawl Fractal – Arrow is negated by reflection.
Swamp Fractal – Reflection for the axe throw.
Ascalon Fractal – Banner radius is sufficient.
Krait Fractal – It’s common with us. Guardians interrupt his agony attack with Trident.

No, I’m not supposing anything. The solution is not to pug.

• Dredge fractal: Still a waste of time, it’s better to DPS the boss in my honest opinion. And if your party prefer the complete circle (because with complete circle if someone is downed, there is a chance that he’ll be able to self ress, rarely happened by the way) then you can’t do that.
• Colossus fractal: Again you are assuming something: you must have two guardians. Why force a team composition only for a banner? You can just dodge those AOEs, don’t need someone to care conditions for you only because you want to stick to a place.
• Grawl fractal: Again assuming that WoE is up which can’t be forever and still doesn’t block AOEs.
• Swamp fractal: Please stop assuming you have WoE or Feedback always up. If the Guardian/Mesmer goes downed then what?
• Ascalon fractal: Hmm… Need to test that, maybe you’re right.
• Krait fractal: Can’t say anything about it, any group I played with just kited it to cages.

I completed successfully Fractal lvl 58 with PUGs. So the solution is not “not to PUG”. Simply you must be versatile and be able to play with any composition. Having a build that works only with some compositions is not a good idea in my opinion.

I know people that have pugged 60+ and people that have taken organized groups to 80. Playing with pugs will result in more headaches than playing with organized groups of people that know what they are doing. I’ve pugged 50+ and done organized runs in 50+ as well. Pugging is always worse.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Himei.5379:

Xenomortis.5972:

DargorV.8571:

A good ranger will be the last man standing (only mesmer could probably beat that) and he’ll rez the rest most of the time

Why are you optimising for failure?

That’s the argument I see most Longbow rangers make. Yes, you are the last one alive ONLY because you are 1500 away shooting arrows. Try doing that on some bosses that target ranged players first, you would be down pretty fast.

I cringe everytime I PUG a party and a ranger shows up with a longbow/bear combo. 90% of the time they are awful. Last Pug party i did was TA, the longbow/bear ranger showed up and I knew my party was cringing at it. And what happened? He couldnt even get past the first running part to the Vine Wurms. Had to wait over 10 minutes for him to run past it, with our thief trying to res/stealth him (dying himself). Then party failed at wurms 3x because he couldnt stay alive for melee to dps. FINALLY he left by himself and we pug another party member, went smooth like butter, even decided to do another path.

These are the types of horror stories that other people hear, then it instills into them that rangers are just bad, so you will be kicked. FYI, I’ve never been kicked or have kicked anyone from my party. There was 1 time when the fifth member to join was a ranger, the other party members kicked him right away, I felt so bad I pm him/her that I’ll run again with him/her after my run.

Well I’m never 1500 away cause I don’t have that trait, and I swap with GS for damage. I jump back and forth between range and melee and I’m still last man standing. All of these “horror” stories just tell me one thing. It actually takes skill to play a Ranger and all the other classes are cake walks. Otherwise why would it be so easy to do everything on the other classes while some rangers have to struggle at it?

The only aspect of playing Ranger that takes any more skill than any other class is playing with one-handed Sword.

Oni Link.4621:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

*Grawl Fractal – Utilize Reflection, melee the boss. Avoid AoE and continue melee combat. Banner works.
*Dredge Fractal – Melee the boss and burst it down. Banner works.
*Colossus Fractal – Guardian handles condition removal. Banner works.
*Harpy Fractal – Melee the golems behind Wall of Reflect and Shield of the Avenger. Banner works.
*Krait Fractal – Melee the Jellyfish Beast, ignore the cages unless they are extremely close. Banner works.
*Ascalon Fractal – Dodge and stay in the radius of the Banner. Banner works.
*Swamp Fractal – Melee both bosses. Banner works.
Snowblind Fractal – Banner works, obviously enough.
*Jade Sea – I’ll give you that one.

Results: Banner is worth taking in every Fractal but Jade Sea.
Playing in an organized group allows you to make use of banners. Playing disorganized chaos is a different story. Banners works well for us.

Most of bosses move around and you can not be sure that boss and banners will stay in the same area so you can go melee. If you go ranged then you won’t be able to stay on the same place when an AOE will come.

• Dredge fractal: You have to move the banner around which means that you can’t attack the boss while moving the banner. I really can’t see it working there.
• Colossus fractal: A Guardian can’t handle all the conditions! You must avoid them, only an idiot would stay on the place and get hit by all AOEs under him.
• Grawl fractal: Forcing all team in the same area is risky, also because if you dodge the arrow it may hit the guy behind you.
• Swamp fractal: In my opinion (just guessing based on exprience) forcing the whole team in a small area vs Mossman will make it hard to dodge all Agony Axes because the reaction time must be very very small considering the small distance you are away from him if fighting ranged. If fighting melee then you’ll just get that in your face XD
• Ascalonian fractal: During Staff phase, his AOEs are so big that you must get out of the banner area and if you get near the banenr again, he will cast another storm there and you will have to leave again. You won’t use all the potential in that way.
• Krait fractal: Never seen a whole group going melee against this boss. Also, most of players can’t dodge the bite and its agony (me neither sometimes) which means instant downed state and a loss of DPS.
• Harpy fractal / Snow fractal / Jade sea fractal: We agree on these.

You are supposing that all members are meleeing bosses so even if you don’t have the aggro the boss won’t move. But you can pretend that, especially with PUG, even if organized.

Dredge Fractal – Melee between 2 buckets, carry the banners a short distance.
Colossus Fractal – Multiple Guardians, usually 2. You have plenty of room to maneuver and not get hit.
Grawl Fractal – Arrow is negated by reflection.
Swamp Fractal – Reflection for the axe throw.
Ascalon Fractal – Banner radius is sufficient.
Krait Fractal – It’s common with us. Guardians interrupt his agony attack with Trident.

No, I’m not supposing anything. The solution is not to pug.

Oni Link.4621:

Inevitable.8920:

I only run fractal 48. So anything I mention is 48.

48 is similar too with a little differnce: at 50+ only ONE arrow is enough to kill a player; not downing, but kill. 2-3 seconds of fire storm is more than enough to down even a tanky player so you can stand near the banner after the fire storm is casted.
So the only way to use a banner is picking it up and moving it. But if you do that, then you can’t attack.

• Dredge fractal? You keep moving from a lava bucket to another, so no banners.
• Hammer fractal? Full of AOEs, with Poison too, so you need SIO and/or SoS, otherwise even if you manage to reach the banner again, it will kill you.
• Harpy fractal? If you have a good kiter for the boss, then YES, the banner is awesome.
• Krait fractal? You keep kiting the Jellyfish around, no banners.
• Ascalon fractal? Again fire storms, even stronger than Shaman with even larger area; no banners.
• Swamp fractal? If you get the Bloomhunger then YES, banners are good. But if the boss is the Mossman then it becomes difficult, especially if your party like to kite him around; situational.
• Snow fractal? Good at elemental and at final boss too, the area is small so you can cover most of it.
• Jade sea fractal? You have to go around for tentacles so again no banners.

Results: 3 yes and 6 noes.
Most of bosses need movement and even if you try to stay close to your banner, your teammates will not risk that only for some Regeneration and a stat buff.

*Grawl Fractal – Utilize Reflection, melee the boss. Avoid AoE and continue melee combat. Banner works.
*Dredge Fractal – Melee the boss and burst it down. Banner works.
*Colossus Fractal – Guardian handles condition removal. Banner works.
*Harpy Fractal – Melee the golems behind Wall of Reflect and Shield of the Avenger. Banner works.
*Krait Fractal – Melee the Jellyfish Beast, ignore the cages unless they are extremely close. Banner works.
*Ascalon Fractal – Dodge and stay in the radius of the Banner. Banner works.
*Swamp Fractal – Melee both bosses. Banner works.
Snowblind Fractal – Banner works, obviously enough.
*Jade Sea – I’ll give you that one.

Results: Banner is worth taking in every Fractal but Jade Sea.
Playing in an organized group allows you to make use of banners. Playing disorganized chaos is a different story. Banners works well for us.

Oni Link.4621:

Inevitable.8920:

Well lucky for us, there’s a skill in the game called Wall of Reflection. Stand behind it with your group and put a banner down. Or just stand near the banner dodge and walk back towards the banner. It isn’t hard for any competent player to do.

Try doing that at lvl 50 and have fun. You can not stay in the same place, especially because he casts AOEs and WoE will end soon or later. And you can not rely on other classes to fix your lacks.

Most of the people in my guild are level 48+, some in the 60s and beyond. We use Banners at the Legendary Imbued Shaman and they are effective.

Oni Link.4621:

@TheMaskedParadigm: Not really because I have permanently over 20 stack of Might without relying on others, that’s how I compensate for damage lack. Permanent Fury and Swiftness too.

@Dempsey: Banners are useless for boss fights because you have to keep moving around to dodge attacks, otherwise you are dead. Mace damage is low because it is very slow and weakness lasts only for 50% on bosses. Sword OH is absolutely not needed, single block and no damage output, shield is better if you need to parry.
If you move correctly and know how to dodge then you don’t need any block.
With your traits and weapons you deal no damage at all: slow and weak auto attacks and no Might stacking.

You don’t maintain 20 stacks of might by yourself. That’s simply not possible. Sonic Boon is a terrible build with low DPS, no useful utility, and no strategy other than spam shouts. As for the rest of your reply to Dempsey, I can’t even take you seriously at this point.

Oni Link.4621:

First of all: are we talking about PVP, PVE or WVW?

• PVP: Not worth. If you want to be a bunker-shouthealer go for Guardian
• WVW: I’m a newbie in that field.
• PVE: Absolutely worth. I’m currently running a build inspired by the “famous” Sonic Boon. I can share it if you want but it is 0-25-15-30-0 with 2 shouts (FGJ and SIO) and SoS for more dodges, HS as healing skill. Berserker jewelry and weapons (GS and LB) and Knight armor. You deal a high amount of damage while being a bit tanky with good AOE support (average 130 AOE HPS plus Might and Fury) and good self-sustain (average 660 HPS).

You actually deal very low damage while prolonging boss fights, letting them beat your team up even longer.

Gnat.9405:

My main gripe with the DPS only design is that it punishes players that use their skills and engage encounters as intended, by making them inherently less effective, and I think that’s a perfectly reasoned argument against the “meta”

I don’t understand.

Obal is pretty good. This guide was pretty amazing to see.

Lévis.5489:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

darkchicken.8692:

Namica.2951:

So…. ranger damage is all auto attack?

yup, press 1 and win.

The second attack is a leap backward, if you press it again you leap back in. Although it is a tad stronger in damage, the travel time make it less strong then just letting 1 roll on..

The third attack is an evasive roll around the target with poison damage. Since most people using the sword in pve for enormous damage are mostly zerker, this is not worth it as well.

Thats usually why i prefer greatsword overall, the damage is almost the same ( a bit lower) but way more active, got control on my character and decide where i leap etc.

So if you decide to use the greatsword, it still do quite enough damage if you are not into min/max, its not a big dps loss. For me, it just feel more confortable.

The biggest advantage of the 1hnd sword is to be able to decide your off hand for the task i guess. The might stack on the pet can lead to a better dps too.

No, Greatsword DPS on Ranger is closer to Shortbow. One-handed Sword is the highest and best DPS option. People that claim Sword is “press 1 to win” have not used a Sword and don’t understand the hazard that comes with playing it.

There are hazards using sword when you have 25 stack of might from warriors and possibly protection if there is a guardian around?

Being locked in an attack animation on a boss with a one-shot move, flying off a ledge because you didn’t time autoattack correctly, not correctly interrupting you attack chain to dodge boss AoE, fighting trash mobs and flying into the middle of the room and aggroing more, the list goes on. Again, a comment from someone that doesn’t understand Sword on Ranger.

If Slave Driver did not die so quickly and he had the ability to attack, a Sword Ranger that was locked in place in front of him would die rather immediately. Sword is a VERY high risk with the reward of putting out Warrior DPS.

Gnat.9405:

Having to work down Defiant by using CCs being necessary mechanic is actually kind of worse than it is now. I say this because it isn’t really promoting using CC for its intended purpose, unless I’m misunderstanding you (or misunderstanding defiant).

Although I’ve been following your feedback in my other threads Spoj and you seem to be on the same page as me as far as what we need to make other build types a little more viable.

You can’t easily CC 50 stacks of Defiant off of a boss in Fractals. You really just have to learn to dodge certain attacks. If you could perma-stun a boss, people would be irritated about how trivial boss fights would be. I’m not sure that Defiant was the best way to make bosses “harder,” though. I would think something as simple as a Stability boon of a certain duration that spawns on a timer and could be removed by boon stripping would be a better implementation, but I’m not sure if it would actually work out. I’m not a content designer and I don’t know what goes into it, and I’m not really that unhappy with dungeons how they are currently. A lot of people are though, and I guess I can see why.

As far as viable builds for other classes, I think that there are already plenty of those. Dagger / Warhorn Berserker Necro does some pretty huge DPS, Lightning Hammer Elementalist does huge DPS, Bomb Engineer seems to be fine, and there are plenty of good builds for the other 5 classes. It’s really just dependent on how accepting other players are, how much work they want to put in understanding game mechanics, and how open they are to builds like that. You’ll find a lot of people think they can work around skill level by stacking Soldier’s gear and don’t want to be “Berserker Elitists” when in reality, it really is the best option. If Anet forced people to take stats like Toughness and Vitality to deal with bosses, that would probably slow down speedrunning quite a bit and I’d lose interest in playing this game. The people that complain about elitists and how broken the game is will find something new to complain about, and no one will be happy. I think the game is more or less fine as it is, although it’s imperfect. Perfect is not a scenario that I want to deal with.

darkchicken.8692:

Namica.2951:

So…. ranger damage is all auto attack?

yup, press 1 and win.

The second attack is a leap backward, if you press it again you leap back in. Although it is a tad stronger in damage, the travel time make it less strong then just letting 1 roll on..

The third attack is an evasive roll around the target with poison damage. Since most people using the sword in pve for enormous damage are mostly zerker, this is not worth it as well.

Thats usually why i prefer greatsword overall, the damage is almost the same ( a bit lower) but way more active, got control on my character and decide where i leap etc.

So if you decide to use the greatsword, it still do quite enough damage if you are not into min/max, its not a big dps loss. For me, it just feel more confortable.

The biggest advantage of the 1hnd sword is to be able to decide your off hand for the task i guess. The might stack on the pet can lead to a better dps too.

No, Greatsword DPS on Ranger is closer to Shortbow. One-handed Sword is the highest and best DPS option. People that claim Sword is “press 1 to win” have not used a Sword and don’t understand the hazard that comes with playing it.

nightwulf.1986:

swiftpaw.6397:

Gnat.9405:

…The builds are there, the gear is there, the classes are there – fix the content.

Wont happen.

I get why people are being so snarky about running a healing build. Honestly, what some people seem to be missing is that the status quo can and should change. What I’m hearing is that nobody (at least in this thread) is up for the free exchange of ideas on how to fix the problem. Instead of saying “zerker for life!”, there should be a tacit agreement that something is wrong with having one effective build to run in a game that allows for specialization outside of that build.

Everyone has done a good job at making the point everyone already knows, the fastest dungeon clear is skewed heavily toward optimizing damage and little else. Everyone will keep running zerker builds up until the day Anet changes the efficacy of doing so. If/when that day comes, the smart people will suck it up and play a different way. Until then, I support anyone who wants to run a healing build as it has a niche outside of the speed clear arena.

Edit: I mean, when I say one build, even conditions “should” count toward optimizing damage but even then you hit a brick wall with the condition cap. Somethin’ gotta change.

You don’t seem to understand. A lot of us have been going on for months about how to fix the game, how to improve, whatever the case may be. It doesn’t happen, and probably won’t since Anet seems to think Living Story is the way to go. When you develop new content every 2 weeks and put your dungeon team on this new content development, that doesn’t really leave much room for actually revamping dungeons or classes.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Yeah, I do feel bad about resorting to such a hypocritical move. I’m sorry about that. But in all fairness, I did try asking you to tone it down nicely first, and that didn’t seem to get me much of anywhere.

Whatever, it’s water under the bridge for me if it is for you.

I guess where we really disagree is on what’s considered optimizing.
I view doing the best for your group as dependent on the circumstances, and you seem to view it as an absolute. If forced to choose what would be considered a good player carrying their group; is it being the last man standing on a boss fight, or slotting in some reflection on a fight known for that? I think we’d probably have two different answers to that question, and there’s really no right answer to it anyway.

Being the last man standing in a boss fight is just as much a sign of a bad player as it is a good player. If someone wants to fight at max ranger with Soldier’s gear and spam /laugh when the everyone wipes but him, there is no possible way for me to consider that a good player. If everyone wipes at Lupicus aside from one person because they don’t know the fight and that last person solos him, that’s usually the sign of a good player. Slotting reflection also doesn’t mean a player will use it. I’ve told plenty of pug Guardians to take Wall of Shield in a particular case, they say they have it, and I never see it. It makes you have to dodge more depending on the fight, sure, and the players that don’t know the encounters will die or fall back to max range and /laugh when everyone else dies.

Are these examples of things that go wrong? Yes. Are they preventable? If the person capable of preventing it is willing to listen to advice, then yes. Things go wrong, but just because that is the case doesn’t mean that you are helpless to prevent them.

Gnat.9405:

I think it will over a very long time. Dungeon by dungeon boss by bos

They’ve revamped one dungeon in 10 months, and there currently doesn’t seem to be a dungeons team. More effort is spent on Living Story and Gem Store items.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I also thought this to be a bug when I first attempted Arah p4. What I fouund in my second attempt was that it isn’t bugged, but is the boss mechanic.
I have never seen on these forums a person actually explaining how to do this boss. It makes me feel like there is some secret society (tin-foil hat) which is trying to prevent people from completing this path, and thus not getting the dungeon master title.
So here goes:
Simin will invuln and stealth at 50% every time, unless you manage to get the sparks into their spots before she heals above ~60%.
Now, you’ve likely heard something like this before, but it’s really important that people understand what I’m saying.
Phase 1: doesn’t matter how quick you are or what your dps is, she will invuln at 50% and that is that. If you manage to get the sparks in quick enough to not let her heal above 60% you enter into phase 2.
Phase 2: You must have DPS and be coordinated for this. If you do not DPS her down to say 40% you still have to get the sparks into their spots when she goes invuln before she heals to 60% health. If you manage to do this, she will stay in phase 2, if you don’t, she will return to phase 1 and you must do it over again.

This is why everyone says it is a DPS check. If when she enters phase 2 you are able to DPS her down to say 25-30% health you have enough time to get the sparks into their spots, pretty much regardless of the circumstances. If you lack the necessary DPS, which my first group did and second group nearly did, it is almost impossible to do this, or is excessively slow going, as in my second group.

This is not a bug. This is a boss mechanic. I get that you’ll say “But every time at exactly 50%-”
But it’s every time at exactly 50% if you did not manage to get the sparks into their spots before she heals above 60% health.

You probably want to look at the videos I posted instead of making comments about tin-foil hat societies not wanting people to complete the path.

That was mainly a joke, I see you have no sense of humor.
My point was I could find no written explanation on the forums, I finally found one on a random wordpress article, which enabled my team to finally beat this boss.

Edit: I also don’t find videos helpful, especially while in a dungeon. My computer is mega awful, having youtube up while in a dungeon will just lead to a DC.

Second Edit: I just now saw your post (from 3 days ago), but when I couldn’t find an explanation on this forum 2 months ago, you have to admit no one was saying a word on this forum of how exactly to do it, thus that feeling of no one saying a word.

You can always watch a video guide before you go into a dungeon. Strife had one on his channel quite some time ago.

Who the heck is strife? I don’t know people who play this game other than those I run with.
I don’t normally watch videos for dungeons or anything other than JPs. Dungeons are usually straight forward enough to figure out, this path however, at this fight in particular, I did need outside help to figure it out, and seeing it written out was more helpful to me than I think watching a 5-10 minute video of people doing it.

It doesn’t sound like you’ve ever watched a video because if you had watched a good one, you wouldn’t have had any problems with this path.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Oh, so does that mean you really didn’t take anything personally and laying down an ‘agree with me or I’ll call you a baddie’ ultimatum is your standard response to critiques? This isn’t exactly the better of the two options.

But I suppose I can find the point you’re trying to make under all that combative acid. It’s not that you don’t acknowledge the potential impracticality of it, it’s that you just don’t care. You’re more about banking on the hope a run will end up the way you want it to, than acknowledging that it might not and working through that.

Well, I guess I can’t fault you for your optimism, but I think that outlook is kind of asking for dissapointment.

I’m unsure as to why you start your responses with something meant to get under my skin and then make remarks about my replies being filled with “combative acid.” Sure runs have problems, things go wrong. This is the case with all things, but just because mistakes will happen doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try and optimize things the best you can. I have no problem being optimistic when I’ve done everything I can to make sure runs go well, and consequently, I’m rarely disappointed.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I also thought this to be a bug when I first attempted Arah p4. What I fouund in my second attempt was that it isn’t bugged, but is the boss mechanic.
I have never seen on these forums a person actually explaining how to do this boss. It makes me feel like there is some secret society (tin-foil hat) which is trying to prevent people from completing this path, and thus not getting the dungeon master title.
So here goes:
Simin will invuln and stealth at 50% every time, unless you manage to get the sparks into their spots before she heals above ~60%.
Now, you’ve likely heard something like this before, but it’s really important that people understand what I’m saying.
Phase 1: doesn’t matter how quick you are or what your dps is, she will invuln at 50% and that is that. If you manage to get the sparks in quick enough to not let her heal above 60% you enter into phase 2.
Phase 2: You must have DPS and be coordinated for this. If you do not DPS her down to say 40% you still have to get the sparks into their spots when she goes invuln before she heals to 60% health. If you manage to do this, she will stay in phase 2, if you don’t, she will return to phase 1 and you must do it over again.

This is why everyone says it is a DPS check. If when she enters phase 2 you are able to DPS her down to say 25-30% health you have enough time to get the sparks into their spots, pretty much regardless of the circumstances. If you lack the necessary DPS, which my first group did and second group nearly did, it is almost impossible to do this, or is excessively slow going, as in my second group.

This is not a bug. This is a boss mechanic. I get that you’ll say “But every time at exactly 50%-”
But it’s every time at exactly 50% if you did not manage to get the sparks into their spots before she heals above 60% health.

You probably want to look at the videos I posted instead of making comments about tin-foil hat societies not wanting people to complete the path.

That was mainly a joke, I see you have no sense of humor.
My point was I could find no written explanation on the forums, I finally found one on a random wordpress article, which enabled my team to finally beat this boss.

Edit: I also don’t find videos helpful, especially while in a dungeon. My computer is mega awful, having youtube up while in a dungeon will just lead to a DC.

Second Edit: I just now saw your post (from 3 days ago), but when I couldn’t find an explanation on this forum 2 months ago, you have to admit no one was saying a word on this forum of how exactly to do it, thus that feeling of no one saying a word.

You can always watch a video guide before you go into a dungeon. Strife had one on his channel quite some time ago.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I also thought this to be a bug when I first attempted Arah p4. What I fouund in my second attempt was that it isn’t bugged, but is the boss mechanic.
I have never seen on these forums a person actually explaining how to do this boss. It makes me feel like there is some secret society (tin-foil hat) which is trying to prevent people from completing this path, and thus not getting the dungeon master title.
So here goes:
Simin will invuln and stealth at 50% every time, unless you manage to get the sparks into their spots before she heals above ~60%.
Now, you’ve likely heard something like this before, but it’s really important that people understand what I’m saying.
Phase 1: doesn’t matter how quick you are or what your dps is, she will invuln at 50% and that is that. If you manage to get the sparks in quick enough to not let her heal above 60% you enter into phase 2.
Phase 2: You must have DPS and be coordinated for this. If you do not DPS her down to say 40% you still have to get the sparks into their spots when she goes invuln before she heals to 60% health. If you manage to do this, she will stay in phase 2, if you don’t, she will return to phase 1 and you must do it over again.

This is why everyone says it is a DPS check. If when she enters phase 2 you are able to DPS her down to say 25-30% health you have enough time to get the sparks into their spots, pretty much regardless of the circumstances. If you lack the necessary DPS, which my first group did and second group nearly did, it is almost impossible to do this, or is excessively slow going, as in my second group.

This is not a bug. This is a boss mechanic. I get that you’ll say “But every time at exactly 50%-”
But it’s every time at exactly 50% if you did not manage to get the sparks into their spots before she heals above 60% health.

You probably want to look at the videos I posted instead of making comments about tin-foil hat societies not wanting people to complete the path.

You might want to take a look at:

http://youtu.be/4UJzTRerE3I
http://youtu.be/OubXI71w9aw
http://youtu.be/i4NtL6g1LYE
http://youtu.be/nmFx8KIb26Q

Emanuel.9781:

Reminder that there’s people who actually fall for the OP.

You are right, I was actually trolled by it. The question is, am I trolling right now?

You guys, stop it