Guild Wars 2

Amun Ra.6435:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Amun Ra.6435:

Broadicea.8294:

….A nerf to feedback is a kick in the gut to people who are good at the game, that’s about it.

Playing a class with a certain skill does not make you good…so I don’t see how skilled players would be “kicked in the gut”…

Not everyone that plays Mesmer can just go in and kill Lupicus in under a minute. You have to understand the game very well.

Sure, understanding a game mechanic is key….but you can’t say that an “end game” boss should be able to be beat in under one minute…even with the most optimal group make up…it just makes no sense.

Killing a boss in under a minute should not be an achievement anyone should want…but that’s just me…but I guess that’s what you get when you have no “Holy Trinity”

Pretty much all boss fights aside from a few in Fractals can be killed in under a minute. It’s just sort of a thing in Guild Wars 2. Even average pug groups can kill bosses in 1-2 minutes. Some people enjoy killing things as quickly as possible, which falls under the part about “play the game the way you want to play it.” And I’m not really sure what doesn’t make sense about it. It’s just Feedback and Warriors.

Broadicea.8294:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Amun Ra.6435:

Broadicea.8294:

….A nerf to feedback is a kick in the gut to people who are good at the game, that’s about it.

Playing a class with a certain skill does not make you good…so I don’t see how skilled players would be “kicked in the gut”…

Not everyone that plays Mesmer can just go in and kill Lupicus in under a minute. You have to understand the game very well.

I guess “press feedback to win on Mesmer” is the new “press 2 to win on Warrior”

And Magic Find is crit damage for mobs carrying rare items.

Amun Ra.6435:

Broadicea.8294:

….A nerf to feedback is a kick in the gut to people who are good at the game, that’s about it.

Playing a class with a certain skill does not make you good…so I don’t see how skilled players would be “kicked in the gut”…

Not everyone that plays Mesmer can just go in and kill Lupicus in under a minute. You have to understand the game very well.

Take out the second phase and make people kill normal wraiths at the same time while standing in the circles, similar to CoF path 2. Do that maybe 3 or 4 times.

OR

Just make the silver wraith teleport around more and give it more health, and remove the second phase of the fight.

I imagine they’ll just change reflects to where they don’t crit. That seems like a logical step for them to take. Who knows, though. They may just remove them from the game. and buff Warriors.

I’ll just go back to working on map completion some more.

pullnointer.1476:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Dub.1273:

Won’t do any better with keybinds

I guess. They don’t really help at all.

wat is this sarcasm rofl. you can click for higher precision if you know wtf you are doing

I’m not good at sarcasm. That was serious.

Dub.1273:

Won’t do any better with keybinds

I guess. They don’t really help at all.

Shameless skill clicking. I’m not even mad.

Zogyark.4597:

Arah path 4 15char

That is Zhaitan’s Rest.

Well, I did CoE path 1 and was able to keep Frost Spirit and my pet alive the whole time, so that surely made a difference. I’m not sure how well it would fare in a fight where things would die to AoE all of the time, but I was surprised to say the least.

You know… After testing my Ranger some more, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Guang isn’t wrong (at least concerning Rangers).

Roman Legionary.6715:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Roman Legionary.6715:

Dolan.3071:

For once I’m seeing more arrogance and unwarranted rudeness coming from someone outside of LoD/Dnt, I don’t know whether to be impressed or disappointed.

I’m sick of inefficient runs. I don’t care what class you play. Could be all engineers for all I care, as long as you know your class. Smooth runs is what I’m looking for and it’s all I have received from Rome. If you want to participate or try us out, please feel free. If you’re not one of us, just leave or we will remove you. I and others have NO PROBLEM with teaching dungeons. We just don’t want to be ressing members or get held behind because of that ONE guy. Yank the band-aid off fast (removing him) rather than slowly going through the agony of pulling it off slowly (good members leaving).

If it weren’t for the band-aid analogy, I never would have understood you.

I’m sorry I did not reach you except through the analogy. Next time I will try to dumb things down for you. Oh and you still have not answered the question: Is your personal friends list accessible by others?

Is my personal friends list accessible by others? I’m really not sure that I’ve ever seen someone try to troll this hard. I hope that there is a prize in the next box of cereal or cracker jacks that you open because you really deserve one.

Wukunlin.8461:

I didn’t know we are THAT special

You aren’t.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Broadicea.8294:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

PLEASE DON’T CONTROL FOR VARIABLES, IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR ME TO SKEW THE RESULTS

Now you guys see why I don’t bother making videos for you guys. You’re basically incapable of actually testing anything in any sort of remotely structured manner.

Might as well just put the ranger in green cleric’s gear. Or hell, have the ranger die at the beginning of the fight and go “well that’s just cause rangers die a lot” and pretend it was an objective test.

I didn’t realize that the actual clear times of the dungeon were what mattered when you wanted to get rewards faster. I also didn’t know that was the point of speedclearing either. Now I’m wondering if you were a test tube baby birthed in a sterile and perfect environment by fanatical science parents, and my head is spinning at rate that you couldn’t even calculate.

Don’t count the Acolytes since Warriors can kill them faster.

I haven’t seen anyone do Arah in a long time.

He’s the only blind visionary that there ever was.

Chopps.5047:

Brazil has somehow mastered the art of being both polite and mean at the same time while also being hilarious. I want to make fun of you somehow man but I can’t. You’re too kitten funny. Lawl.

You can thank bipolar disorder for that.

nemeth.4196:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Plain and simple, we need more people like you around.

No, no we don’t. I thought people already learned how to calculate DPS. You don’t take one rotation, cut it off as the last attack ends, divide it by the time and present it as DPS. Just beacuse warrior does in it’s first 7s 15k dps doesn’t represent the fact that for the next 8s when he waits for his cooldowns he does bugger all (exagerating, but you get the gist). And I’m starting to see why Guang doesn’t care to post any videos, because this is what happens.

For people who don’t understand how you compare DPS, here’s a idea for you to boggle your mind with at night, when you dream about warrior supremacy. This is how it’s done in other MMOs, and if you have brain, you should be able to see why. You hit the dummy with your rotation (this is where the gw2 ppl would like to end and present this as their DPS calculations). Then you hit the dummy with your rotation again. If in the meantime, while waiting for your cooldowns, you can do nothing but autoattack, so be it, it’s part of the calculations, you cannot just magically leave that out at he end.
Then you hit the dummy with your rotation again. You continue this for the duration of expected boss fight (noone cares about burst in PvE). In other MMOs, it usually is couple of minutes. For this game, I’m not sure how long does a boss fight take in a proper group (I run with guildies, we don’t care about clear times as long as we have fun). My uneducated guess would be 1m.

THEN, and only THEN, you add up all the damage done, divide it by the time and present it as DPS.

WARNING: You do NOT compare 7s parses to 15s parses, just like you don’t compare 30s parses to 1m parses because that just makes no sense and everyone with common sense should be able to see why.
There is also no reason to present short parses (like 7s/15/20s) as any sort of evidence, because they are irrelevant (in PvE). They don’t consider cooldowns of abilities properly, favour front load and burst classes and do not represent the actual DPS, which goes down significantly right after your rotation is finished and you’re waiting for the next cycle.
That’s why burst clasess are useless in PvE. It’s nice to have 20k DPS in the first 5s of a fight, but if your next 15s you’re doing 3k DPS, you’re a wasted slot.

You completely missed it, didn’t you? He was polite and was trying to make a contribution to a thread where everyone has turned into a maniac psychopath. I don’t care who can calculate DPS, I don’t care if you can dance with a fishbowl full of pregnant mom breast milk on your head and not spill it on the floor. If you are polite about something where everyone else is not, more people like you would make a big difference and a nice change.

Almdudler.8621:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I used to make videos to illustrate my point. The problem is that people literally only look at the biggest number that appears at any point in the video. I’ve got like, four videos on my Youtube channel of warriors being outdpsed by three different classes, and the response was pretty much “BUT MY HB DOES 40K”. I had this exact same discussion a while back, of both my ranger and pet hitting between 3-4k per swing in an unbuffed group in CoF (which isn’t even level 80) and what I got in response was a bunch of screencaps of warrior HB numbers.

Okey, just before I start, I’m definitly not a dedicated theorycrafter and don’t know so much all the calculations for damage and so maybe my analyses is wrong. Even if this video

Strife’s Warrior at the Slave Driver: http://youtu.be/EUhUj1aL0yA

is a bit outdated I think it still reflects the warrior damage (I dont know actual numbers from now, since I only play very passive now)

then I took your videos (I believe this is your channel)
http://youtu.be/i8QQfrcam-0 ranger
and
http://youtu.be/Ac2NGGjjPsU guard

then I watched them frame by frame and typed the hit numbers into my calcuators and stopped time from first hit -> death, results are following:

Strife’s Warrior: 106327/7s —> 15190DPS
Your Ranger: 138978/14s --> 9927DPS
Your Guard: 108945/12s —> 9079DPS

I did not count in the condition damage since they would neutralize each other to a difference of dps that is insignificant in my opinion.

Even if this is just a benchmark on slavedriver the result is pretty obvious:
Its right, ranger and guard can do good dps but warrior can do alot better and also is more suited for more situations while the ranger dps build you use is very situational (e.g. 10%damage only when endurance is full)

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong or underline my statement, since I’m not 100% sure about it myself, just my attempt to contribute

Plain and simple, we need more people like you around.

Broadicea.8294:

Frame by frame I only counted 17 popups for that feedback so it’s not necessarily before the feedback nerf. It’s gotta be just % damage modifiers. I’ve only played mesmer once or twice while meleeing Lupi, does DnT or anyone else have a comparison from Mesmer POV to see what the normal crit numbers are like there?

I don’t believe I have any videos recorded from when we were doing it, and the other Mesmer didn’t ever record as far as I know. The only thing I could think of would be some of Strife’s videos, but I think I only ever hit him for around 26k, give or take. I guess that would be a pretty big difference if he is hitting 10k more than me with each reflection.

spoj.9672:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

spoj.9672:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I’m not even mad. I’m curious how they got a Feedback like that after the patch. That sent him to like 15% health.

Do damage modifiers effect feedback damage? If so that might be why hes using mantra’s?

He said in the video he didn’t have the trait. And it still wouldn’t have made that big of a difference.

When I say “that big of a difference,” I mean taking him down to like 20% health. Feedback doesn’t reflect that many projectiles anymore from what I’ve seen, so I’m almost wondering if this video was recorded some time ago and only just uploaded, maybe to ensure that they hold the record. If that’s the case, well played.

But if they used damage modifiers to make feedback hurt that much to compensate the lack of reflected projectiles? Thats just my theory on how they managed to speed it up. But yeah could be an old recording, does seem like a bit too much even with that smart use of mechanics. Obviously a phantasm mesmer wouldnt get that much bonus damage out of feedback.

I guess it’s possible… I’m just very skeptical.

spoj.9672:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I’m not even mad. I’m curious how they got a Feedback like that after the patch. That sent him to like 15% health.

Do damage modifiers effect feedback damage? If so that might be why hes using mantra’s?

He said in the video he didn’t have the trait. And it still wouldn’t have made that big of a difference.

When I say “that big of a difference,” I mean taking him down to like 20% health. Feedback doesn’t reflect that many projectiles anymore from what I’ve seen, so I’m almost wondering if this video was recorded some time ago and only just uploaded, maybe to ensure that they hold the record. If that’s the case, well played.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

colesy.8490:

Guang, please watch the video.

I just did. Now picture if they had a ranger and engineer in that group. It’d probably be under 40 seconds.

I say probably because minmaxing DPS honestly really doesn’t matter in those circumstances, since it’s really about hitting a high (but not necessarily top) DPS while hoping you get lucky on Lupicus’ rotation.

The conversation’s going nowhere, I think I’ve pretty much made my point and it doesn’t look like anyone here is competent to refute it, so I’ll just rest my case. If you still don’t get it, sorry, I can’t help you.

You can’t go out like a hero if you aren’t a hero.

Guang, I think watching the video might actually help you. I almost feel I’m being trolled by writing this reply, but I just can’t help it anymore. I’m starting to feel bad.

I’m not even mad. I’m curious how they got a Feedback like that after the patch. That sent him to like 15% health.

Everyone knows that I’m the best player in Guild Wars 2. Don’t fault Obal for at least trying to match my skill level.

This isn’t a troll thread. This is how Anet wants us to play Ranger.

LOD is I’m sure a friendlier guild and probably more open to taking newer players. Nikaido is the only member I’m familiar with, mainly because he was a part of my guild for a short while. I’m not really sure how to describe my guild other than “we play games and we are good at them.” I’m really the only one that is overly sarcastic, that’s just a trait of mine. Most of the other people are fine.

Dub.1273:

Has that really been him on guardian? Because i dish out more damage on my guardian and still don’t come close to warriors.

I believe it’s him, he posted it on Guru a long time ago. I hit 4k+ on a regular basis with my Guardian, sometimes over 5k on the first two attacks in the Sword chain. The last hit has gone over 9k as well, so I’m not doubting the potential if I do a GS / Sword Focus with something like 30/30/10/0/0 maybe. I’ll track down the build he suggests and give it a go.

I’ll respec my Guardian and do CoE, record it, and then make a new thread about it. I’ll get the spec Guang is suggesting. I’m getting more curious as this thread goes along, I’m still skeptical for sure, but I’m going to make an effort and see what the results are. For now, though, I’ll leave some videos that have been posted in the past.

Guang’s Engineer VS Strife’s Warrior: http://youtu.be/EkdtCbTx_E8
Guang’s Guardian at the Slave Driver: http://youtu.be/Ac2NGGjjPsU
Strife’s Warrior at the Slave Driver: http://youtu.be/EUhUj1aL0yA

Wethospu.6437:

Why are DnT or LoD even replying in this topic if they aren’t really interested?

This is Guild Wars 2 end game content.

Roman Legionary.6715:

Dolan.3071:

For once I’m seeing more arrogance and unwarranted rudeness coming from someone outside of LoD/Dnt, I don’t know whether to be impressed or disappointed.

I’m sick of inefficient runs. I don’t care what class you play. Could be all engineers for all I care, as long as you know your class. Smooth runs is what I’m looking for and it’s all I have received from Rome. If you want to participate or try us out, please feel free. If you’re not one of us, just leave or we will remove you. I and others have NO PROBLEM with teaching dungeons. We just don’t want to be ressing members or get held behind because of that ONE guy. Yank the band-aid off fast (removing him) rather than slowly going through the agony of pulling it off slowly (good members leaving).

If it weren’t for the band-aid analogy, I never would have understood you.

Roman Legionary.6715:

swiftpaw.6397:

Roman Legionary.6715:

swiftpaw.6397:

Roman Legionary.6715:

swiftpaw.6397:

Roman Legionary.6715:

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Roman Legionary.6715:

swiftpaw.6397:

Roman Legionary.6715:

DnT and LoD,
I appreciate the fact that you guys have taken an interest in The Warcamp [Rome] and this thread, but please show some respect and do not recruit here. Thank you.

Wait what? You’re a recruiting? oh sorry I thought this was some kind of comedy thread.
Y’know, being the dungeon forums and not the recruiting area.

Carry on.

Exactly, not a recruiting area so it would be inappropriate for DnT and LoD to recruit here. Right? Thanks.
Y’know, using common sense and all.
Carry on.

You should go read posts because DnT isn’t recruiting here. Right? Thanks.

By the way be sure to check out dtguilds.com if you are interested. There’s even a link in my signature.

That’s because I reported the post made by DnT to recruit here and it got deleted. And now you are doing it again.

You should report your whole thread since it’s recruiting in the dungeon section, and not the recruit section.

It’s not guild recruitment. It’s finding fellow skilled dungeoneers. This is an advanced form of gw2lfg.com

If you message me, I’ll add you to my community friend’s list. You will need to play with me for me to judge you ( and you to judge me). If you are not up to par, I am going to kick you from the guild.

:/

Still not a guild, like I said, it’s an advanced form of Gw2lfg.com except it’s not rando’s.

So people join a guild.. but it’s not a guild.. and if they aren’t good enough, they get kicked from the guild.. which doesn’t matter because it’s not a guild.

It’s a community friend’s list. So yes, you are right. If they are not good enough for the community, they are removed. Behavior, disrespect and lack of skill will get you out of the community faster than you can say

So if I add you to my friends list, does that count?

Wethospu.6437:

Dempsey.8760:

Empowered allies does not stack. Warrior provides support to the group through DPS while still able to bring group might, vuln and group fury, better than any other class. It is very simple, high dps, group might, group fury, and vuln.
Having 3 banners on 1 warrior is just, well, I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed a lot.
—

Care to educate me why 3 banners is funny on a Warrior?

My Ranger CoF video proves it’s a valid tactic.

Chopps.5047:

Lol Brazil. Serious question: why not sword/torch with quickening zephyr? Hopefully you had companion’s might. 30 in beastmastery with zephyrs speed might be a little faster…besides you really only need one ranger to go into marks or else you cap out vulnerability. Also, I gotta believe drakes would be more might and fortifying bond (15 in NM with sigil of strength) would make a big difference. I know the point you’re trying ti make and you made it, but maybe it could be further optimized? Btw im on a cell phone and cant read the might stacks.

So basically, most ranger damage on a stationary target is probably still from a beastmaster cat with quickness. Without fortifying bond, your pets get no buffs because of buff cap to 5 players. Spotter does not stack, only one instance needed from the marks ranger. That’s about all I can think of right now and you guys may have used those things, I’m not sure. Again choppy cell phone video.

Btw, beastmaster’s bond is also wasted without fortifying bond imho.

I’ll keep that in mind for when I decide to take Ranger seriously.

Roman Legionary.6715:

swiftpaw.6397:

Roman Legionary.6715:

DnT and LoD,
I appreciate the fact that you guys have taken an interest in The Warcamp [Rome] and this thread, but please show some respect and do not recruit here. Thank you.

Wait what? You’re a recruiting? oh sorry I thought this was some kind of comedy thread.
Y’know, being the dungeon forums and not the recruiting area.

Carry on.

Exactly, not a recruiting area so it would be inappropriate for DnT and LoD to recruit here. Right? Thanks.
Y’know, using common sense and all.
Carry on.

You should go read posts because DnT isn’t recruiting here. Right? Thanks.

By the way be sure to check out dtguilds.com if you are interested. There’s even a link in my signature.

Stooperdale.3560:

Sometimes it’s wise to give your PUG a chance and see what they’re up to. It can be smarter than the common knowledge tactic. It can be smarter than your guild tactics. As an example, groups often insist that I stand in the huddle as they’ve always been in groups that huddle up for a pull. The huddle itself isn’t important. It’s the grouping of mobs for aoe that is important, so squishy classes can always take care of their own defense elsewhere as long as they maintain the killing zone and can maintain their group support.

It’s always funny to see people using common knowledge exploits that don’t work any more. The players insist you stand in specific spots and then die horribly when it doesn’t work. What a shame!

Grouping and LoSing mobs is a strategy that kills faster than jumping into the middle of a group and trying to be a hero. I don’t see what the problem here is. If people do it incorrectly then sure, things go wrong. But fighting mobs where they stand isn’t a strategy. It’s looking at a problem and not thinking about a better solution.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I love Guang actually. His conclusions are wacky but he is good at math and excel and I love a good pot-stirrer.

He’s the hero Guild Wars 2 doesn’t need, but the one we have to put up with for now.

But I agree. He’s crazy (maybe), but he always contributes to a discussion and seems like a nice enough guy. I don’t think I’ll ever agree with him about class DPS, but I respect the effort he puts in to his calculations. Hopefully other people will look at him the same and won’t just point and say “TROLL!”

Sithaco.4673:

So, when can we see this change?

You must be new here.

swiftpaw.6397:

scepter camping guardian is not doing better than you :/

I would have kicked him for being an kitten about it.

Can we PLEASE make “Scepter Camping Guardian” into a meme?

randomfightfan.4091:

Okay so by your logic (in the video), rangers are overpowered b/c… they can pick up elementalist summon weapons and have crap dps when the weapons go down?? All I saw was 3 rangers getting carried by 2 eles.

The turrets went down fast with ice bow 4… the other 2 guys didn’t take any damage at all though and took around 1.5 mins despite the aoe. The aco kill times were also pretty atrocious (safe with that bow though). Should have used an ele weapon on the gate controller though. I can kill that thing twice as fast as you did on my thief but with 0 might.

Edit:

After posting this I realized that this is probably a joke thread. I got trolled and I am ashamed.

Watch the first minute of my video. Listen to my voice. That is a voice that belongs to someone that doesn’t care about tryhard Thieves or seeing how fast I can do CoF with Warriors. The video is intended to be fun to watch and to show how broken Rangers are. World Record CoF stopped being cool long ago, and the people that still farm it to death… Well, you can see what they are like by reading their posts on GW2LFG.

Dub.1273:

Get new players :>

The good players play other games now.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

colesy.8490:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This is a really stupid thread.

1) Ranger sword is one of the fastest attacks in the game. It hits a full chain approximately every 1.8 seconds, which means it hits at the same speed as the warrior’s axe chain. By comparison, a warrior’s greatsword chain takes 2.5s, which means the ranger attacks almost as fast as a greatsword warrior does with quickness on.

2) Rangers have immensely high crit rate by default. Spotter is now +150 precision to the entire party, which is worth 7% crit chance, and they maintain fury more easily than any other class. A ranger with Spotter, 30 in Skirmishing, and full zerker armor with Ruby Orbs will have a crit chance of 84.7%. Add in the Warrior’s Banner of Discipline and a consumable that gives +100 precision, and Sigil of Accuracy, and you have a crit chance over 100%. The guardian is the only other class that can achieve those numbers.

3) Rangers have a pet, which also contributes DPS. I see no indication of pet damage measurements in this post, but a pet typically contributes between 1-2k DPS. In terms of total damage, a totally decked out ranger (might, fury, vulnerability, banners, consumable, Spotter, Empower Allies) hits for over 10k DPS once you include the pet’s damage. That is almost identical to the guardian’s DPS and higher than the warrior’s DPS, which is about 9.6k.

tl;dr rangers are actually one of the strongest classes in the game. If there is a significant weakness on their part, it is the awkward movement on the sword chain. Then again, without that rooting effect, the ranger would insanely overpowered. That’s not hyperbole. The ranger does obscene amounts of damage and provide extremely strong group buffs that stack with the ones the warrior provides. Couple that with a guardian providing defensive buffs and an engineer stacking conditions and you have a pretty strong holy quadrinity.

On the basis of group buffs, DPS potential, and overall usefulness, at least in PvE, from best to worst:

Engineer
Guardian
Ranger
Warrior
Mesmer
Elementalist
Thief
Necromancer

Note how high ranger is on that list.

Are you insane?

And where did you pull those dps numbers, your backside?

Numbers from math, testing, and actually, you know, playing the game and using good builds, instead of spending all my time seeing how big a number I can make with HB.

If you’re still at the stage where a single big number is enough to impress you to this extent, you’re probably not ready to talk about game balance, anyway.

Please post faster clear times than anything Strife, Obal, or myself have posted. Show us that you are correct and we will believe you.

Dub.1273:

I’d rather like to see some improved real runs from you guys. No more CoF, please!

I’d like to redo CoE, Arah, and maybe a few others. It sucks I don’t have my old group to do it with, though

Player Character.9467:

So since you have 2 eles and 3 rangers, the rangers have to take turns getting real weapons?

I don’t remember. The run was too fast.

Guang, if we are talking about 1v1 vs PvP Golems then maybe you are right. I have to disagree with you in the case of actual dungeons, though.

http://youtu.be/In5w5wfVxLQ

This is officially the new meta. Enjoy!

Roman Legionary.6715:

DnT and LoD,
I appreciate the fact that you guys have taken an interest in The Warcamp [Rome] and this thread, but please show some respect and do not recruit here. Thank you.

I don’t think we have taken an interest in your guild.