Guild Wars 2

If you’re using hammer or have stealth gyro or are condi, then not so much. If you’re referring to the bunker ones, then it’s not really a counter if they can just live forever, but if you mean in more of a dueling aspect, where it’s 1v1 and they go far more bursty with marauder amulet and are taking arcane shield, etc, then it’s probably the hardest counter to rifle engineer in the whole game. They’ll be cycling through invulns/reflects/projectile hate all the while being able to attack you, and the openings you get will mostly be when they’re in air and are going to blind you with all the random lightning strikes. So yeah, rough times, they’re beatable with rifle but it’s more just dumb luck than anything when you win one in ten times. But this has been true from pretty much the games launch. S/F has always been a rifle engis biggest counter pretty much.

I just want to say, with all the ‘nerf engineer’ threads now flying about, to make sure only scrapper is being nerfed and not core engineer. All that nerfing the inventions or alchemy line will do is make core engineer completely unfeasible whereas nerfs to particular scrapper traits, gyros and hammer is what should actually happen if people feel it’s OP.

That said, the skill floor and ceiling for scrapper and both way too close together and the skill floor in particular is way too high. Being able to insta-cast gyros and insta-cast reflects, damage mitigation, healing, etc, just leaves zero counterplay and at the same time becomes mega faceroll. (i.e. use medic gyro as soon as it’s avaliable…) Even killing the low health gyros is a no-go because they give a decent amount of healing upon death still.
On top of that hammer is such a faceroll weapon as well because of the low CD. Leave the damage the same and increasing the cooldowns a little is probably the best course of action as it may bring kit play back, whilst making the hammer a lot less spam/faceroll. Just my opinion though. I might just be too used to using rifle.

Overall, Scrapper just seems way too easy to play as you can mostly just whack as many buttons as possible and you’re pretty much as good as a scrapper can get and never-die in 1v1. This is converse to core engineer where there’s a huge difference between newer and veteran players.

But above all else… Don’t nerf core engineer traitlines.

The meta-scrapper build is actually really simple to play. You’d probably be able to pick that up really fast. Has enough damage and sustain to almost faceroll. Engineer was only really thought to be hard back when it was only a core-specs.
Power is the general go-to nowadays as well. Condi is doable but you won’t be able to pump out as much consistent conditions as other classes can and also leaves you lacking in some area most of the time.
Pistol Main hand is condi, pistol off hand is condi, shield is utility but it’s really only condi as we only have one single-handed main weapon (don’t use shield anyway), Hammer and Rifle are both power but Hammer at the moment is pretty amazing and rifle lacks out in offensive and defensive capabilities comparatively when fighting on point.

I disagree with making engineers even more focused/carried on/by passives. The other two tier 2 traits in alchemy are definitely not bad picks either they just don’t work as effectively in this meta.

Overcharged shot is pretty much why rifle damage is low. I don’t know of any other weapon which has a (almost) insta-cast CC for as long as it and to immediately burst as hard as rifle does or other engi equipment on it’s low cooldown (except maybe hammer warrior who swaps to GS after stun?).
The real issue is what ellesee was saying and that everyone and their mum have reflection 20-50% of the time negating the wombo combo to completely murder yourself instead.
Also, rifle auto attacking has tracking which a lot of other ranged weapons don’t and can be jittered (like warrior rifle auto and volley, ranger rapid fire if at long ranges, even unload on thief).
Rifle also has straight up the biggest decap potential in the game because if it knocks the bad guy off the point you’ll be able to decap it before he can run back on, and eventually cap it if he stays.
In the games current state as well, we don’t need more buffs to anything xD We need more nerf hammers across the board in my opinion. (Plus, rifle is good compared to shield and main hand pistol, I’d say better than p/p too)

If you haven’t already, learn how to do the healing turret combo and easy ways to rotate blast/leap finishers into available water fields (for pvp). I don’t have anything for the PvE front though xD

Try this out:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUh6rY7WwkLQ7FLTGU42TWYFf2BCw4HafEA-TFCFQBIRpHAeAAqTHgCVGcFlg6Y/B9p+DBuAAAA-w

With stealth every 30 seconds, a lot of regen, and gear shield on 13 second CD it works very well for solo roaming. I’ve been running it pretty much since the trait changes pre-HoT and it carried over to be quite effective still post-HoT.

Rezzet.3614:

Twigifire.8379:

Get closer and use it, or combo it with overcharge shot. It’s not meant for opening at range. You can always do something like jump shot —> overcharge shot --> net shot, or pull instead of jump shot.

this would be good if OC shot dint knock us too , wasting a stunbreak or stab for a 2s immobilise is a waste

The self-cc is waaaaaaaay shorter than that inflicted on your target though. The run-of-the-mill rifle combo is OS —> Filler (AA or blunderbuss) —> Net shot —> blunderbuss/jump shot.

insanemaniac.2456:

when someone gets a high change in momentum as youre casting net shot, it does silly things like fly off the screen at a million miles an hour. their distance from you doesnt matter in these cases, and in fact, the closer they are the worse this appears to be. these are also precisely the moments when someone else is ccing your target, and succeeding at doing so, and precisely the moments when you want someone immobilized in order to chain your ccs, and it is frequently impossible to do so (for better or worse tbh).

there is a “git gud” aspect… but the targeting and projectile speed suck too.

Yeah fair point. It has quite a bit of randomness when someone casts a movement spell at the same time. The change I think would be more of a quality of life adjustment (sort of like fixing magnet pull but not AS gamechanging as that). Either way I’m not too fussed. But the ways I said above are normally just the best times to use it where it’ll have the highest probability of landing

Get closer and use it, or combo it with overcharge shot. It’s not meant for opening at range. You can always do something like jump shot —> overcharge shot —> net shot, or pull instead of jump shot.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUh6rY7WwkLQ7FLTGU42TWYFf2BCw4HafEA-TJBFAB6s/AAPAAxLDQwFAAA

Try this out. Works well in pvp and wvw. Also can 1vX pretty well because of all the low cooldowns (13 second gear shield, 30 second stealth, 48 second invuln). Has plenty of sustain to boot.

This is more of just a basic thing to do, but when you have 350 points it’s most of the time safer/easier to just go for their lord. If you send 1-2 people it’ll take 2-3 of theirs to stop the push and you’ll either get a triple cap to finish the game off, or more likely just kill the lord.

It’s not bad. It’s actually the one of our better ones and requires some knowledge on how to use it properly. That being said, have a self-SR on 45 second CD, or being able to go into rampage as well as forcing reapers out of shroud is just too good at the moment for mortar kit to have a solid position.

There’s limited/no more kit juggling combos which is quite dissappointing Q_Q

Solution is obviously to decrease CD by 50%, and replace tornado with moa.

I just tested this and it works. Don’t select the downed player (don’t have him targeted). Just walk near him and press F. You’ll be able to stomp without using the gyro. I’d imagine it’d also work the same for reviving.

You can do it quickly by just clicking randomly anywhere on the screen to de-target the downed body, or tab target to another player/object if avaliable, and then going for the stomp with F when within the downed player’s proximity.

DGraves.3720:

Twigifire.8379:

Furthermore, the regeneration actually will save you for the next incoming burst, since you’ll have more HP, whereas the extra damage won’t do squat.

I want to focus on this.

Why do you believe that the weakest regenerative ability the Engineer has by miles will save you? Realistically one thousand HP every 10s, or it’s true hps of just 100, isn’t … meaningful. At all. You will die to basic autoattacks from a Nomad rifle warrior at that rate.

Between the two it isn’t that the might will save you but that the rapid regeneration will not save you; it’s the only thing it’s supposed to do and it just won’t do it. Ever.

You’ll die but you’ll take a whole heap more hits. And it does save people all the time. Backpack regenerator is in the same tier and is sub-par, yet some people still take it because of that extra sustain. If you’ve fought some decent players or been in 1vX scenarios you’d know that this sustain is paramount to ideal performance.

DGraves.3720:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I have 554 healing power in my build (sinister cele hybrid), so I get 199+109=308 healing per second (rounded down to nearest integer value) from regen and rapid regen respectively. That’s 18507 healing per minute. Rapid regeneration simply gets better the longer the fight is provided you have good regeneration and swiftness uptime, which with defender runes and elixir b I have plenty of both. Obviously this is from a WvW perspective, take the extra power in PvE if you want.

In my game how much healing you get in a minute doesn’t matter when you take a hit worth more than a quarter of your HP in an instant. You know what gets better the longer the fight? Sustain. In general. You know what doesn’t get better the longer the fight? Your odds of survival when you get hit for more than 308 damage.

You’re losing minimal dmg by taking rapid regeneration over it that the 100+ regen of rapid regeneration is going to be more beneficial, especially in conjunction with slick shoes it’s an extra 1k hp every 10 seconds, and 2.5k hp every 5 seconds from slick shoes. And so please answer me this if this kind of healing is not as good as having might on stab, which can just be corrupted in the necro corruption fest, with only a 200 boost to power at max? That power won’t save you, the regneration from RR will though and it’l keep you in the fight way longer, so you can put out more dmg as well.

Furthermore, the regeneration actually will save you for the next incoming burst, since you’ll have more HP, whereas the extra damage won’t do squat.

Or you can not AFK and keep playing. It’s not too hard to get a comeback if people don’t start spitting dummies when they’re team falls behind.

Manuhell.2759:

• someone will mention kits or the toolbelt; kits aren’t available all the time (being optional) and thus aren’t the same as a second weapon set; and about the toolbelt, we aren’t the only class with F skills (guardians have 3 of them, for example, yet they don’t lack weapon skills as a drawback like engineers supposedly do)

Yeah but engineer has been designed with kits in mind to supplement for the loss of a weapon. Saying that hammer/engineer weapons need to be stronger to supplement for not having another weapon still allows for people to run kits, hence making it too strong with 1/2 kits effectively as good as another classes weapon as well as another weapon which is more powerful than others :P

Rezzet.3614:

lets see how open minded people are
What do you think actually needs nerfing ?
this is the statement no one has made
Be Specific dont just go and say sustain or damage because that could mean anything

Hammer damage (reduce by 10%-ish on the whirl and rocket charge) and not making rocket charge a triple leap finisher. Lower rapid regeneration healing and increase the stealth gyro cooldown. We’d have to remember that pre-HoT engineer was in a generally greed ‘good spot’ so toning down only the elite spec would be wisest before cutting into core traitlines.

AND just for clarification purposes, everyone in this thread is talking about this overpowered scrapper spec with stability, condi cleanse, etc… —>http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scrapper_-_Power_Hammer

You’d have to be new to engineer and never played a core engineer build to not see how easy it is in comparison.

For those concerned about the damage reduction in PvE… this is why PvE and PvP should be split. You have a hybrid defensive/offensive (currently great at both) weapon like hammer and can’t expect it to be capable of dishing out as much damage as other full DPS focused weapons in a pvp setting.

Rezzet.3614:

Rudy.6184:

Few points for what i’ve seen in comments:
-The hardest class? Nope.
-No stability, condicleanse, armor? They have planty of that.
-Not stacked on tournaments? Ya’know patch? No bunker mes? No tournaments after?
-Reaper kills it? – you have realiable condicleanse, dmg reduction rev/mes doesn’t.

the problem is all of you people blow your scrapper encounters out of proportions
i would like to see this 3 gyro 3 elixirs elixir gun flamethrower berserkmenderpaladin
P/P+Hammer weapon swapping scrappers you guys seem to speak of

certainly not the hardest class because scrapper has been forced to choose between two builds pretty much either retaliation cleric bunker or paladin bruiser

outside of Toss Elixir B engineer only has Flamethrower with juggernaut for stability as a scrapper they have stability on summon gyro wich means they’d need at least 3 gyros in their kit and give up the protection adept trait and elixirs and lose condi cleanse for high stability uptime

“reliable” condi cleanse requires taking elixir traitline with HGH and taking elixir gun and something like elixir C so thats two non offensive utilities right out the bat

if someone considers reaper,chronomancer and revenant balanced but scrapper OP then i’ll call hypocrisy and bias

Scrapper is OP because all of those things can be put into one build to make a godly class.

Firstly, you don’t need elixir c when you have EG (3 condis) Inventions and healing turret (3 condis) and elixir b (2 condis) and from traits, another 2 condis removed. Not taking the protection trait is becoming more meta as well, and with toss elixir b, Scrapper has plenty of stability up-time.

On top of all that you have a good amount of stealth, perma-regeneration (250+ healing per second and 750+ with super speed), perma-retal, perma-fury, good protection up-time for when you need it, and can pump out 10k+ healing from healing turret alone not including other potential combos. Scrapper seriously has no downfall and when someone stuffs up with it there’s an immediate way to completely recover.

No other profession possesses all of these things, with good damage, in a single build. The reason no other scrapper builds are about is because they cannot achieve this level of synergy and usefulness.

Well lets be honest here.. saying scrapper has the highest skill cap simply isn’t true. Heck, you can force a stalemate against anyone by just using stealth gyro whenever it’s up and knowing how to hammer #3 in a water field… There’s also a very good reason there are ten times the amount of engineer players at the moment than there was pre-HoT.

To be fair, it’s really just the hammer which is heavily tipping Scrapper’s survivability into the unkillable department. The triple leap finisher with access to water fields easily, on a 12 second cooldown, is 4k healing. It’s pretty much 70% the hammers fault with 30% to do with adaptive armour and rapid regeneration and some of the core traits in inventions and alchemy (although these core engineer traits shouldn’t be touched because it is almost uniformly agreed engineer was in a good spot just before HoT) that the scrapper has so much sustain.

Rifle + Hammer would be amazing O_O

You could go marauder druid and achieve the exact same thing though with pew pew longbow to boot :/

Considering they’re also removing the tankier amulets I’d say so. It has plenty of damage mitigation to work.

This league system is just a grind anyway. There are amber/emerald players who don’t do matchmaking much, but still have better map sense and mechanical knowledge than legendary players. Basing someone’s pvp ability on their league is like judging them on their AP nowadays

Pimsley.3681:

That [Nigr] acronym was clever and the people who created it were probably being wise-guys. Their intent was more towards trying to be funny rather than hateful. Racism is so passe and uncool.

I know it’s not a reputable source, but ‘clever’ isn’t exactly the word I’d use for immature people who steel memes.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nigr

Dahkeus.8243:

Twigifire.8379:

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, the key to being good at playing stealth in PvP is being unpredictable. As a former thief main, I’m in awe of how good Sneak Gyro is for PvP. It’s like SR on steroids.

It’s broken in multiple ways

(rubs temples)

Sometimes posts here just make my head hurt…

Anyways, would it be nice if it moved faster? Yea. I’d love if I didn’t have to wait for it when I had swiftness. However, I’m not sure it needs to be faster. It still easily merits the elite slot on a profession that the best selection of elite skills (especially in PvP), which says something.

Considering that it’s also sometimes beneficial to run out of the radius of the gyro to avoid attacks, it’s not always that bad that it’s slower than you.

I don’t know why you’re rubbing your temples. I was agreeing with what you said as well as the others in the thread xD

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, the key to being good at playing stealth in PvP is being unpredictable. As a former thief main, I’m in awe of how good Sneak Gyro is for PvP. It’s like SR on steroids.

It’s broken in multiple ways

antidote.7201:

I would be ready to pay again 50$ for an expansion that could bring back the old wvw

Haha I’d do it to. This was Anets plan all along!

SlayerSixx.5763:

Twigifire.8379:

which would mean he’d have to put himself in combat first.

This alone puts a ridiculous amount of shade on the OP’s SS.

Hmm that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. Although it can be seen that way it’s not valid really because: The warrior could’ve easily been in combat from fighting someone else and built it up, or fired an auto off to then use the adrenaline signet. I believe the OP’s story completely.

I’ll expand on the point I was making with this claim: The warrior would be sub-par to a mesmer at doing the exact same thing, excluding all other advantages the mesmer also has, because warrior requires this adrenaline build-up to even be allowed to burst in the first place, and it must be built up whilst in combat unlike a mesmer or a burst build on another profession.

As said you were hit from somewhere you couldn’t see and mid fight. Think of replacing the warrior with a mesmer, who possesses much more utility, and can still achieve that big burst damage. The gun flame warrior is basically just being a kitten mesmer/thief. Sure, 20k crit is a-freaking-lot, but it’s by far not the best at its role and could be insta-killed by something like a cele engi whereas a mesmer would have a far better chance of getting away. Also, it requires full adrenaline for zerker mode which would mean he’d have to put himself in combat first.
(I have no idea why that is censored haha. All it was is http://www.thefreedictionary.com/kitten)

And then you find the reaper mid game running around with 100% life force.. I think the way it is, is fine. Means that they have to be careful in the initial engage as a trade off to becoming almost unstoppable later on

The flamethrower auto attack will keep stacking its numbers if you constantly auto attack. So you’re still only doing 500 dmg per hit, it’s just accumulating over X number of hits.
So like, if you do 2k dmg per full cast, then it will go to 4k after the second full cast. The drastic change from 2k —> 7k —> 15k is most likely because of lucky crits from something like a fury proc and bleed (if you’re in firearms) I’m going to guess.

Hammer #3 in a water field is the biggest thing. Flash shell also helps. Other than that, Hammer #4, when he goes into DS as well as using hammer #3 again.

Turn Guild Wars 2 into Medal of Honor Airborne.

Medic Gyro will also work AMR properly unlike healing turret (QQ).. although this might further complicate things if the gyro is out when AMR procs…

A good engineer can be very frustrating to fight against. Someone who can use all their skills effectively for combo-ing, damage rotations, and surviving, is generally a huge pain to deal with.

For roaming this has always been good:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqelUUh+sYJXwdLQ7FLsFF4HWiBQYKeRvmYHVFPBA-TVyYABGeCAYRJIAK5+Rdl52fwIVKCQ5gI6B27BAEAABgZOzgUA3NNC-w

Bombs are a little umming and ahhing but are a good condi option against melee, whilst against ranged classes the auto attack on elixir could not be more amazing.

This has been around since the 23rd patch. They were supposed to fix it with the most recent one, however, it hasn’t fixed the issue.

If you buff the damage in pve, it’ll be OP in pvp. It is already a very good, easy to use weapon for pvp with great damage and survivability. Having reflect, evade, block all on lowish CD’s with good damage at the same time is pretty good imo :P

Yeah, I don’t know why the elite gyro didn’t pulse stability instead of stealth. It would mean we could fully utilise kits and not be forced to camp flamethrower for it which is never really advised. The stealth seemed a bit out of place compared to the stability. However, they might’ve thought it’d be a bit OP.

Engineers can most definitely be good duelists. HGH celestial elixirs is definitely the way to go for specifically 1v1 fighting.

The following build can deal with pretty much anything 1v1:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlcThqrY9VwdLQ7FLsFFYIuBBQYKeRvm4GVFPBA-TJBHwAFuAAAeAAl2fAZZAA

And if you don’t like celestial this works too:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUh6rY7WwkLQ7FLTGU42TWYFf2BCw4HafEA-TJBFABiXGggLAgO7PAwDAAA

The others were right in suggesting that for dueling situations auto targeted skills like rifle are far easier to deliver consistent damage and allow you to focus better on dodging.

For 1vX these builds do falter slightly because 90% of the damage is single target but the high sustain on either is generally enough to focus a player down whilst tanking the damage from the others.

It appears like half the fixes they did have not taken effect. Magnet still stuffed and AMR not resetting Cleansing burst is still happening as has already been stated. I have not had issues with the other changes though.

Waaaaay to early to decide anything.
We have no idea how the hammer will even scale with power. And from what skills it offers, rifle has two high damaging skills of jump shot + blunderbuss, with an amazing knock back from overcharged shot whilst pinning people down with net shot. Hammer has some big boots to fill if it hopes to replace rifle… (Rifle has far better single target CC just from overcharged shot, whilst the AoE stun on hammer will be better for multiple targets)
Overall, hammer is probably going to be more appealing to bunker-focused specs because it does have a block, reflect, and AoE stun, where as rifle will be for the glassier damage-focused builds… but anything could happen, we haven’t even had our first beta test yet and have not really ‘seen’ much at all.

I’m also a little worried about the might + vulnerability on auto attack will result in a pitiful amount of base damage it deals to compensate..

We’re in the middle of everything.. which is bad. Damage is good, but not amazing (mortar is meh). Tankiness is good, but not amazing. Support is good.. but not amazing. When it’s 15+ v 15+ it’s far better to have people specialised. Hence, why take a frontline engineer over a guard or warrior, or why take a backline engineer over a necro or ele? There reason is no reason not too.

I’m only specifically talking about the slows here but I’ve yet to be beaten by a chronomancer.
Chronomancer slows can be painful, but just learn to use it against them. I play engineer so I’ll give you examples:
Elixir Gun Acid Bomb will send you flying VERY far away (like 1300)
Gear Shield lasts 6 seconds.
Running Shield both the shield skill blocks + reflect would last longer also.
So for all classes:
I’d imagine it would work for evading skills, so you can have very long lasting evades.
Warriors could also get some crazy disengage potential from their movement skills, as well as their blocks. Guards shelter I’d imagine would have a prolonged block and similarly with their invuln elite.
These are just the ones I can think of (some may not work but I definitely know the engineer ones).

So, after the grenadier trait fix, they stopped legendary effects for grenade barrage.

Now, static discharge and the aim-assisted rocket trait no longer have effects, and hence engineers have no legendary effects at all. Just a warning/notification for all the engineers out there looking to grab a legendary or already have one!