Guild Wars 2

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

Why? Because we can, of course, and it could flesh out tinkering a bit more, that’s all.

We . . . are fleshing out . . . Tinkering, something which doesn’t exist yet, with more things which also don’t exist yet, and we don’t even know if Tinkering is something we should be looking at?

Sure why not?

:)

Though it bears to question just what exactly is “Tinkering” supposed to do which “Artificer” can’t as a flavor thing?

The thought was to have a crafting profession for “fluff” items, such as furnishings for halls or homes, town clothing, etc. The posts go into ideas, such as drops off boss mobs being used to make items (dragon scale table for ex.). Tied into housing and all that it builds on the overall concept and helps players have more of a hand in progressing their place plus pulls the world into it by using items found on certain mobs, etc.

Artificing is tied to combat, as are all the professions. This would be ‘out of combat’ fluff.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

Remember tinkering from page three? We could craft Signets of Capture through that.

Why go that far? Make it a purchase from your class trainers rather than force another crafting discipline. You get an “Orrian Capture Device” (remember! the Signet was originally supposed to be Orrian in origin) which can be used on a valid target as a “Use Device” prompt.

Now the question comes what would this thing actually do and how would it interplay? Personally, I suppose it could be useful as a side-road to a horizontal progression of subclass or masteries or whatever. Instead of questing, get the device and charge it with each target it’s used on. Redeem it at a trainer as currency for the unlock.

Let it charge in sPvP after every match, or even better have the stuff unlocked as default so you can test drive them in sPvP . . . but it charges in WvW also so they can just grab the device, and get to work.

Nobody gets left out, and you got an alternate road to your horizontal progression than “go do the PvE content”.

Why? Because we can, of course, and it could flesh out tinkering a bit more, that’s all.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Signet of Forums.4397:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Zaoda.1653:

@ColinJohanson,

In regards to new weapon skills/unlocks, I think the way it worked in GW1 in terms of obtaining both normal and elite skills using the Signet of Capture was so unique and amazing. It was something I had never seen done before in any other game I had played, whereby you go around the world looking for specific bosses that have the elite that you want, and that boss had a particular glow depending on what profession it was – gold/yellow for warrior, cyan for ritualist, green for necromancer etc. you slayed that boss, and captured its elite when standing near its corpse. I felt like I had truly earnt that skill, and that to me is what it’s all about – true progression.

So something like a Signet of Capture concept where you can purchase, or get via a reward, and go around and collect weapon skills from bosses would be ideal – and would make you feel as though you truly earnt it.

You could even swap in, say, 10-20 skill points for a capture skill (as many have been wanting more ways to use excess skill points, this could be another way to use them up?)

Edit: another idea could be bringing back elite tomes? Just a thought anyway.

Hi Zaoda,

Absolutely, this is a simple and excellent system. Very elegant, and rewarding with a great sense of discovery.

Chris

Well, I didn’t think the part where you had to have the Signet of Capture already taking up the slot of one of your skills on your skill bar in advance was what I would call “elegant,” but it was interesting aside from that.

Hi,

I am referring to the system at it’s core level. If we were going to reintroduce the system we would evolve and polish it.

I hope this makes more sense.

Chris

Remember tinkering from page three? We could craft Signets of Capture through that.

No I don’t need that to accommodate the need for mounts. Mounts are something many people like. You can leave in all way-points and still add mounts.

However if you talk about reducing way-points (That was, what was being talked about) then the question becomes if you need to replace it with something and then mounts come to tough.

I really don’t need to have way-points to be removed in order to suggest mounts.

And no, it does not fit with the lore. I know you don’t want to see it but mounts fit better with the lore. That does not mean you might not be against mounts. Thats up to you but the lore arguments just does not fit.

I never had any problems in any other mmo’s with mounts and many people liked them. You might have missed the many topics about them.

People can now also block the way of NPC’s. If you want to remove that you need to implement hit-detection on users and NPC’s (but that would create other problems that would require flying mounts to fix.. just saying). Thats totally unrelated to mounts.

How can you possibly continue with the absurd claim that mounts are part of the lore when the lore from both games clearly shows that to be false? No, sorry, concept art doesn’t count, nice try. What’s in both games counts… and it’s not mounts.

Reducing waypoints is also unnecessary. The system works fine as it is and encourages a more ‘take your time’ approach to exploring without the inconvenience of excessive travel times when you’re in a hurry, plus we avoid the plague of mounts and the pox of elitism that is inevitable if anything remotely prestigious is introduced.

I haven’t missed mounts one bit, and I bought a Sparkle Pony back in the day. So much wasted time, so many people cluttering towns trying to show who has the bigger dragon, the griefers blocking access to mailboxes and bankers etc… what a mess that was. Nothing good came of mounts, they were only a faux convenience for a deliberately added travel time sink. We don’t need those time sinks… there’s no need to make us stretch out our playtime to give the illusion of getting our money’s worth for our subscription.

timmyf.1490:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I hope I’m getting the point across. Waypoints exist for a reason, but their utilization is by people with a variety of reasons for using their convenience factor. Removing them for the sake of exploration (which a lot of players might not even want to have forced on them) seems . . . to be adding some fresh new vibrant color to the Mona Lisa.

I see what you’re saying.

I do not want to REMOVE waypoints.

I want to add new content built without waypoints in mind.

I don’t think content is built with waypoint in mind, but simply as to whether or not it’s fun content. The waypoint system is a great convenience, allows still for exploring – both initially and at will if you wish to wander, an certainly shouldn’t be gutted for the sake of adding extra and unnecessary systems simply to squeeze mounts into a game where they’re not needed.

Devata.6589:

skullmount.1758:

VOLKON.1290:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

timmyf.1490:

I’ve felt this for awhile, though I still don’t quite know how to phrase it. Wondering if others might have an opinion.

As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.

I’ve suggested zones without waypoints as a way around this. Does anybody else feel the same way? Or am I romanticizing the runs from towns to far-flung locations in GW1?

Edit: should have said this originally, but all the credit to Sir Arthur for expressing my feelings better than I’ve been able to. This post was meant as a huge +1 to his.

Hi TimmyF,

I agree:

‘As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.’

Chris

What’s funny is that after playing for years in the original Guild Wars I disagree. I mean, you have to explore as it is to get to the waypoints, but the thought of tedious runs across zones to try and get somewhere you’ve already been… it seems like a step backwards, and if that were to happen in GW2 you’d find the very next hour people demanding mounts or some other means to get around faster. Map travel has always been a part of GW, even included in the lore of the game (there’s a quest you get from a kid who claims his mother invented map travel in Elona if I recall).

I don’t think any exploration is trivialized at all… you still need to walk to where you’ve never been. But the added convenience to get to where you’ve already been… I love that.

My thoughts mirror this as well.
What happens if you are doing the exploring that you want, and a friend wants/needs help doing something. First they’ll have wait till you run there. Then after you finish helping the friend, you’ll need to: 1)remember where you were (granted that already kinda happens even with the waypoints) and 2) run all the way back there. All that time running could mean much more exploring you could get done.

The wilderness zone idea is interesting, but what happens if an actual zone is released that takes up the space next to where those portals into the wilderness zones “lead” to? Are those zones temporary? or do they continue on in that next map released (thus kind always ‘leading’ out to unexplorable portions of the world map?

Maybe a travel to a friend option could help in some situation. At least a travel to guild options (having at least a few guild-members in one spot) would be nice. But overall I never found this getting to a friend a big problem, also not in other mmo’s without way points. Thats where mounts come in.

You seem to have this need to add a buttload of different little systems in order to accommodate the unnecessary and unneeded mounts. We have a system in place that works well with the existing lore of the game, and on top of that you add the nightmares of any other game with mounts relating to the kittening, the trolling (placing mounts on NPCs for example so people can’t access them) etc. Sir Occam is twitching nervously in his grave at the very thought of this.

Devata.6589:

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

Besides, you talked about lore before. They totally fit into the lore. We have cars in the game, airships, horse carriages, use animals to carry supply but we don’t have mounts we ride on / in. That just does not fit with the lore.

Of course it does. When you don’t need to train creatures to be mounts then you don’t train creatures to be mounts… it probably never occurred to them to go that route. Pack animals move slowly, so walking along side them only makes sense (they can’t use a waypoint), and fast travel always is an option for when you don’t feel like walking.

Map travel is a part of GuildWars lore, mounts aren’t.

It never occurred to them? You never noticed that they build cars and airships and helicopters. Plus why would mounts not be able to travel with it? People take a lot of stuff with them when going into a gate or using a way-point. And then there are the horse carriages all over the place. Also have a look at these pictures https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/january-2013/ I see Tyria citizens riding horses.

The link you gave is nothing more then a mechanic to help the player learn how it works. Pretty much the function of a tutorial. Building your whole idea of a lore around fast-travel on that while denying there is a lore for mounts seems silly to me and I really feel like you are fooling yourself here.

You might just disagree on the idea that mounts would be fun. Agree to disagree but this idea that mounts don’t fit in the lore while way-points do is just silly imho.

They build machines of war, not personal travel. There’s a difference. I want to carry this humongous gun over there and blow something up… dolyak says no.

Devata.6589:

And it might be fine for your the statement of lore and immersion just don’t seem to fit the facts. How is clicking on a map and then seeing a loading screen in any way more immersion then needing to really travel there inside of the game. About the lore I also said enough. It simply does not fit the lore that we do not have mounts.

Well that’s blatantly false. The lore is map travel, as demonstrated in the link you seem to have willingly ignored. Mounts aren’t in the lore at all. They’re not in the original Guild Wars nor are they in GW2.

You’re also rather dishonestly ignoring the fact that mounts actually detract from exploration by allowing you to quickly go through unexplored areas, which results in you missing the things that you’d find on foot. You speed through on a mount, think you’ve explored it all and ultimately you haven’t actually seen a thing. I’ve come across so many things walking about in new territory that would have easily been missed had I been racing by.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Draxynnic,

In my opinion this is an excellent focus/paradigm for the creation of sub-classes:

‘Treat it as a key, not a lock.’

Based on the way the professions were built for GW2 I don’t think we would treat sub classes any other way. However your reasoning and points are well made and serve as an excellent guide or talking point should we decide to explore Subclasses in the future.

Thanks,

Chris

My only concerns with sub-classes would be adding specialization and removing versatility. If there’s specializations then people will as a result begin to require specializations. If a subclass of an elementalist is better at healing then elementalists of that subclass will be required, fair or not. It’s simply how people are.

Jade Quarry does a few times daily, but it’s a bear trying to get in there to do so. If you’re thinking of guesting over to join in, good luck with that, there’s not enough room for the locals.

Devata.6589:

Mounts and other fast-travel options would then come to mind. Fast travel points to a few towns in a map (we have those big airships in GW2’s lore that would do just fine for that) and then on the ground you use mounds for the last part.

Then you still have the feel of exploration but are also still able to get to your friends pretty fast.

No you wouldn’t. You’d have the feeling of “kitten , this is taking too long to join my guildies for guld missions” or you’d have a case where something that wasn’t broken was replaced for something less convenient and totally unnecessary. There’s no sense of exploration when you’re passing through familiar territory to meet up with someone. Exploration is going somewhere new or unfamiliar, and we do that now quite nicely on foot. Mounts would actually remove some of that sense of exploration because we’d be covering new ground much faster, and even worse, we’d be missing the little things in our rush to see it all. Little hidden caves, holes in the ground that start events, they’d all be raced past in a hurry during “exploration” when you’d be more likely to find things on foot, as we do now.

If a new, waypoint-free zone opened up and people had fast mounts they’d be back in no time saying they explored the entire zone, yet odds are they wouldn’t have seen a thing while doing so. Mounts ruin exploration by hurrying you through places you hadn’t been before.

Black Teagan.9215:

I have no problem if you set the lvlcap at 100, but the rest of the character-progression should then only continued over the traitsystem.

I see changing the level cap as a nightmare waiting to rear it’s ugly head and spread darkness and despair throughout the entire system.

Or at the least, a major PITA, especially for those who are spending months creating ascended gear for their level 80 characters. If you decide to upgrade existing ascended armor to level 100 with such a change then the whole thing seems like the same generic ‘adding more points to give the illusion of vertical progression’ from other MMOs without the gear treadmill, and if you don’t increase ascended (and exotics, legendaries that people have and love) as well to level 100 then you’ve really gone a few steps too far towards that dreaded treadmill and also completely sent the current batch of level 80 into obscurity, never to be created again.

There’s no real value to be had in increasing the level cap. More numbers are meaningless when it’s offset by mobs with the same numbers added on, and it will complicate even more the down-scaling system for higher than 80 gear. Really not worth the effort.

Devata.6589:

Besides, you talked about lore before. They totally fit into the lore. We have cars in the game, airships, horse carriages, use animals to carry supply but we don’t have mounts we ride on / in. That just does not fit with the lore.

Of course it does. When you don’t need to train creatures to be mounts then you don’t train creatures to be mounts… it probably never occurred to them to go that route. Pack animals move slowly, so walking along side them only makes sense (they can’t use a waypoint), and fast travel always is an option for when you don’t feel like walking.

Map travel is a part of GuildWars lore, mounts aren’t.

Devata.6589:

In the current system it would indeed be a tedious runs across zones. Thats you then indeed need mounts and fast-travel options (and then I talk about a train or whatever). then it would not be a tedious runs anymore but you would still see the world making it not feel so small and giving more immersion then way-points.

I also am not sure how you feel they fit into the lore. We have the Asura with there gates that require you to enter one gate and then get out another gate. That it part of the lore. Also having some way-points that let you just teleport all over the place totally breaks down the lore around the Asura gates. The whole Asura gates do not make any sense anymore.

The problem is that you now only need to go there once. After that it becomes trivialized. Like I said, mounts an fast travel points will also help to get you fast to the location where you want to be but without braking the immersion and making the world feel smaller.

If you played the original GuildWars you’d be familiar with the concept of map travel. Basically, open your map and travel to any city you wish, whenever you want. Now, a few hundred years later, the Asura have expanded on the whole idea not only with their gates but with the waypoint system.

One huge problem with mounts and fast travel systems, whatever they be (we already have waypoints after all) is that all you’re doing is replacing something that works and works well with something… else. Not just something else, but something from outside the GuildWars universe and in doing so taking away one of the unique feeling features of the game and lore and replacing it with something more ‘been there, done that in the archaic MMOs’.

I disagree that waypoints make the world too small. Little sucks the fun out of a game more than having to work excessively in order to get somewhere to have fun. Back in WoW, if the guild was someplace doing something it really sucked having to ask them to wait 15 minutes while I hop on a gryphon and get to the closest point only to have to hop on a mount and try and ride the rest of the way there… more often than not you don’t bother. It isn’t worth making everyone else wait on you, no matter how much fun it would have been for you to be there. Then there’s the issues with people kittening over their mounts, people using mounts to block access to NPCs and other assorted methods of mount-trolling that plague games like WoW that depend on them. Yuck, no thanks. Troll-free waypoints, easy access to where I’ve been and the run on foot to finish the travel… that’s plenty fine by me, and well within the lore and immersion of the GuildWars universe.

Devata.6589:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

timmyf.1490:

I’ve felt this for awhile, though I still don’t quite know how to phrase it. Wondering if others might have an opinion.

As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.

I’ve suggested zones without waypoints as a way around this. Does anybody else feel the same way? Or am I romanticizing the runs from towns to far-flung locations in GW1?

Edit: should have said this originally, but all the credit to Sir Arthur for expressing my feelings better than I’ve been able to. This post was meant as a huge +1 to his.

Hi TimmyF,

I agree:

‘As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.’

Chris

I agree as well. Have had some discussions about this in the many mounts threads. Didn’t feel it fit into the horizontal progression discussion but from a journey viewpoint I guess it does.

There are many places I never see anymore because I way-point directly to where I need to be. The whole world gets so small because of it. Traveling all by foot on the other hand might take to long and becomes boring, thats why it came up in the mount threads. Combination of mounts and fly-points would increase the size of the world (the feeling), and add some more Immersion (no loading screen).

Talking about mounts. In a way you could also see that as a form of horizontal progression. Collecting them but you can even build fun crafts around mounts.

Ha! See? We haven’t even removed waypoints and people are already asking for mounts! Mounts and a lack of waypoints… really doesn’t fit in the GuildWars universe.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

timmyf.1490:

I’ve felt this for awhile, though I still don’t quite know how to phrase it. Wondering if others might have an opinion.

As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.

I’ve suggested zones without waypoints as a way around this. Does anybody else feel the same way? Or am I romanticizing the runs from towns to far-flung locations in GW1?

Edit: should have said this originally, but all the credit to Sir Arthur for expressing my feelings better than I’ve been able to. This post was meant as a huge +1 to his.

Hi TimmyF,

I agree:

‘As convenient as I find the waypoints all over the place, I feel like it trivializes much of the exploration we would be having without them.’

Chris

What’s funny is that after playing for years in the original Guild Wars I disagree. I mean, you have to explore as it is to get to the waypoints, but the thought of tedious runs across zones to try and get somewhere you’ve already been… it seems like a step backwards, and if that were to happen in GW2 you’d find the very next hour people demanding mounts or some other means to get around faster. Map travel has always been a part of GW, even included in the lore of the game (there’s a quest you get from a kid who claims his mother invented map travel in Elona if I recall).

I don’t think any exploration is trivialized at all… you still need to walk to where you’ve never been. But the added convenience to get to where you’ve already been… I love that.

Sheesh.. I think this CDI may have reached the end of its usefulness. Not really seeing ideas for horizontal progression being tossed about anymore… just seems to have drifted off. Looking forwards to seeing what Chris has narrowed the field down to soon!

Essence Snow.3194:

You think they would? Allow stat changes on ascended that is?

In the CDI there is mention of being able to change out the base stats on ascended gear, so we can’t rule this out as a future possibility. I like the idea of being able to use a t-stone (or something similar) to change out the insignia only without having to sacrifice a whole set of gear in the process.

Xillllix.3485:

They have weather in some area of the Edge of the Mist map. Just wish we get to play it one day.

Any noticeable day/night cycles though?

Tiriyon.8735:

Well you’re right both of you, umm how about a day/night timer next to minimap? a nice Sun/Moon icon changing as the day time changes… at least making us aware of when’s when

I think the real issue is that we simply can’t really tell when it’s dark because, well, it isn’t dark. The change is so slight that I don’t even notice the cycles anymore.

RedCobra.7693:

VOLKON.1290:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

VOLKON.1290:

Darker nights would be nice. However I wonder how that would effect WvW…

Therefore add a slider, so noone has to use it if he don’t want to.

No, that’s ridiculous. Practically no one would if it gave a visual disadvantage… so the thought of adding a slider that only a fraction of a percent would use seems like it fails the risk/reward sniff test.

dont speak for other people, you are a minority of one when speaking, I (another minority of one) would absolutly love the idea of this being added, even in wvw i would

Just a slider? The biggest problem with adding just a slider to change how dark it appears on your screen is that you can’t do anything with it. It would always be just a slider, nothing more. You can’t use the slider to trigger new mobs to spawn at night. You can’t use it to trigger new events at night. You can’t use it to see the moon change phases every couple nights. It’s just a little sliding bar on an options page somewhere that adds nothing to the overall content of the game.

Like Inculpatus says, there’s a very recent thread here concerning day and night, namely having night be more pronounced as well as using the night to add content to the game. Take a look and by all means please feel free to contribute!

Beldin.5498:

What wouldn’t be liked would to be force darkness on everyone, and you also now that because you suspected that most players would just use the slider to avoid the darkness.

So instead you say : I know noone wants the darkness, so don’t give them the option to turn it off.

Next forbid monitors where you can change the gamma settings .. or lets programm games just in one color : black .. then no setting will help you

I’m not asking for darkness personally, just darker. I want to be able to distinguish day from night, and right now it’s so subtle that I honestly don’t notice the changes. You can easily have a darker night without it being anything close to being debilitating, and you can do so much more with it too! Like I mentioned before, you could add phasing of the moon and tie “darkness level” to the phase, where a full moon would be similar to what it is now and a new moon would be noticeably darker. You could have new mobs that only spawn when it’s “dark”, you could have some mobs become aggressive at night that are ‘yellow’ during the day, you could have night-specific events generate after dark that don’t spawn in the day time. It gives almost a new layer for developers to add content without the need for new maps, zones, etc.

Darker nights in WvW, that could be a blast. 20 Omega golems tip-toeing through the dark…

Some really creative ideas, keep ’em coming!

Beldin.5498:

VOLKON.1290:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Everything thats making this game look nicer isn’t wasted.
Also, like I said, it wouldn’t be too hard to implement and, like you can see at this threat, there is a huge demand.

Your suggestion is gamechanging, therefore it has to be balanced and tested.

I… I didn’t realize you were threatening me.

Kidding, of course. It would be wasted (imo) because it wouldn’t be used except by maybe a handful of people, and it’s questionable if they’d keep it full time.

So you want to force however something on all players where you self think that most of them wouldn’t like it at all ?

I think you misread. What wouldn’t be liked or used would be a simply slider. What I think would be liked my most would be for the night to have more of an actual impact in the game, spawning night time mobs, night time events, etc.

Beldin.5498:

Chrispy.5641:

Beldin.5498:

People wanted weather in EQ2, when they added it mostly it was just depressing rainy weather. Also i played in Lotro while it was raining for over 1 hour and had really headaches after that. And then there was that Snowstorm in Lotro where i couldn’t see my own feet .. of course mobs had mo problem to see and attack me.

All in all these things were always just plain annoying, so i say thanks but no.

So, you get hit with a snow storm, and enemies, who live and grew up in that climate, have no problem seeing you? How is that any different from a Cat being able to see better than you at night?

Its a game .. a game for me should be fun .. and it was NO FUN to run around in a mess like this for me :

Well, things shouldn’t be so extreme as to actually hamper game play, that should be obvious. We actually do have reduced vision from snowstorms already (happens in the borderlands). But I think the “dark effects” would be much more exciting to work with. Imagine if only at midnight during a new moon a certain type of mobs or champion would spawn with unique skins that dropped (and should require teamwork)? Maybe certain events that happen in the black of night as the undead become emboldened and push into lands wreaking havoc? Maybe these creatures of the night apply a new condition, “darkened soul”, which reduced casting time, attack speed and movement by 25% and requires a unique mechanic to remove (possibly something to do with light fields?).

Incorporating a more meaningful night opens up the world to a whole new set of things that can enhance the living world significantly.

Who knows… maybe a certain Living Story nemesis does something that affects the world as a whole in such a way that the nights are indeed darker than they are now and her minions of the dark rise forth as the light fades…

Offair.2563:

Blix.8021:

My reasonable argument is l2p. Learn better arrow cart positioning, learn where to place defensive trebs, have people willing to scout and defend. If you and your opponents both have map queues, and you lose a tower to pvd, it’s your fault, especially on a reset night like you said.

you can have all siege in the world but a 70+ blob simply ignores that and pvd a reinforced gate down in like 2min ish, but guess your one of the doorhuggers that dont want this to stop, saying l2p isnt really constructive either

If your server can’t respond to the threat in two minutes (longer if you do delay them with siege) then the problem isn’t the door.

Throw in a straw hat for my Mesmer and I’m in!

What I worry the most about regarding dueling (aside from the potential to be annoyed) is the fact that the PvE world is coded to recognize everyone as allies. PvP has it’s own areas. So expand on the existing system rather than change key elements and have dueling be the PvP it is. Either have it in the Mists or have a special area for it. What fits in with the lore and core of the game would be to have the Consortium control dueling arenas in Southsun. You want to duel someone the two of you party up, talk to the arena master and get sent into you own little arena. If done like the jubilee it can be a spectator type of sport with people making side bets, etc. You could even add “practice” npcs there to duel if you really wanted to embellish the idea.

But the heart of the PvE world is built around cooperation with everyone. Non-contained dueling goes against that and should be somehow confined to a PvP specific venue.

Wasbunny.6531:

I feel like I should post this link to a similar thread made awhile ago, a lot of really interesting ideas and opinions about having a more dynamic and dramatic night.

No Dark Enviornments in GW2

Would love to see a CDI on this overall concept.

Well, treat this like a CDI and we’ll see if anyone notices!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

VOLKON.1290:

Hey Chris, welcome back!

Although it’s not relevant to the progression system being discussed, have you seen the “Let the night be nighttime” thread yet? I added a thought in there as to how we could use making the dark darker to enhance the overall game play. It may be worth your read.

Thanks!

I saw it last night while I was reading the forums in bed but that was the one topic I didn’t read, sorry.

I will read it tonight but based on what you just said I am very intrigued and can imagine what the content will be (-:

Chris

Actually, look at this one instead People are starting to add some brilliantly creative ideas to it.

sanictoofast.9317:

this is how it should be.
OPEN WORLD DUELING
individual town arenas
no ques
no scaling, if my noob friend wants to get SMASHED i wanna SMASH THEM

No, and I don’t think it’s possible to properly state in words how emphatically I believe that to be a horrible addition to the game. The very design of the PvE is built around all players being on the same team and cooperating whether or not you’re in a party. It’s ridiculous to attempt to modify working, live code at the very heart of the game for something best left, if implemented at all, to either a PvP zone or specialized arenas located out of the way, for example run by the Consortium in Southsun.

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

Post of the day +9000

:D

lol. Yeah +9000 for not seeing how the one thing effects the other.

So I’m up to +18000, not bad.

It’s surprising the venom you’re spewing at what has to be simply the least invasive gem store I’ve personally seen yet in a game. It seems the argument has evolved past the old and invalid “pay to win” and gone onto “too much fluff” when the intent was for it to simply be fluff. This is perhaps the best cash shop in any MMO out there and has proven to be good for the game (revenue and creativity) as opposed to your unfounded assertions that it’s somehow bad for GW2.

Repeating a fallacy doesn’t make it true, and screaming an opinion won’t change it to fact.

Then you should change your title. The title implies it’s a thread discussing ways to make the night matter more.

But I do appreciate the new thread and will leave you with your slider.

Kaisharga.5647:

Got a Portal Device as a drop from Scarlet’s Invasion today. Used it and it ported me to the end of Spelunker’s Delve jumping puzzle. And hadn’t completed it before. Not bad for a freebie

You know… I’d completely forgotten about this… thanks for the thread resurrect! I wonder if I have the recipe? I also wonder if I could use fish fingers and custard instead of salsa and dark matter…

You make me blush. Hadn’t considered adding weather to it, although in WvW the snow definitely impairs your vision to a degree… hmm…

Hey Chris, welcome back!

Although it’s not relevant to the progression system being discussed, have you seen the “Let the night be nighttime” thread yet? I added a thought in there as to how we could use making the dark darker to enhance the overall game play. It may be worth your read.

Thanks!

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

VOLKON.1290:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

VOLKON.1290:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Everything thats making this game look nicer isn’t wasted.
Also, like I said, it wouldn’t be too hard to implement and, like you can see at this threat, there is a huge demand.

Your suggestion is gamechanging, therefore it has to be balanced and tested.

I… I didn’t realize you were threatening me.

Kidding, of course. It would be wasted (imo) because it wouldn’t be used except by maybe a handful of people, and it’s questionable if they’d keep it full time.

Yes, my concept would have to be balanced and tested (as would any changes to be honest). However you have to admit… it does open the door for more types of content to be added to the game. Why only change the darkness when you can also do so in a way that livens the game up with potentially new mobs, new events that kick off in the night, new strategies in WvW, etc?

If there’s a change to be made, why limit it in a way that doesn’t allow for potential growth, as sliders would? If you’re going to go for it, go for it with gusto and make it matter!

Thats your OWN opinion, thats fine, but don’t generalize.
To me and and many others, its not wasted.
You can think whatever you want but don’t blunder with stating it would be wasted.

Nice way to dodge the other points, but regardless, of course it would be wasted. The vast majority of players (and no one in WvW) would deliberately disadvantage themselves. A slider fails the cost/benefit sniff test most stinkily.

Seriously, who other than you have said, this idea would be wasted?
And how many have already said on this threat that they would appreciate such a slider?
You still think, just because you said it would be wasted, and just because it would not affect the gameplay, you would be right.

Hint, you’re not.

Your expertise at missing the point is most impressive, I’ll give you that. That, and your belief that slapping a slider in there and it’s magically darker is such a simple thing to code. (Let’s consider as well the coding, testing, etc. for day/night and night/day transitions and having that look smooth for every setting on the slider, …)

You also haven’t allowed for people that would consider a slider on first thought to consider going with a system that provides for far greater depth then just a slider would allow. So, to flesh that out for anyone still bothering to read this thread:

• Changes to darkness are universal.
• Changes to darkness scale with the phase of the moon. Full moon same as now, new moon considerably darker (but not excessively so).
• Darker nights can then be used to allow for new mobs to spawn with unique drops and for unique night time events to kick off.
• Darker nights (universally) in WvW could alter strategies, encouraging activities under cover of darkness. This could be enhanced by reducing the range you can see nameplates in the dark.

Or your option…

• A slider.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

VOLKON.1290:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Everything thats making this game look nicer isn’t wasted.
Also, like I said, it wouldn’t be too hard to implement and, like you can see at this threat, there is a huge demand.

Your suggestion is gamechanging, therefore it has to be balanced and tested.

I… I didn’t realize you were threatening me.

Kidding, of course. It would be wasted (imo) because it wouldn’t be used except by maybe a handful of people, and it’s questionable if they’d keep it full time.

Yes, my concept would have to be balanced and tested (as would any changes to be honest). However you have to admit… it does open the door for more types of content to be added to the game. Why only change the darkness when you can also do so in a way that livens the game up with potentially new mobs, new events that kick off in the night, new strategies in WvW, etc?

If there’s a change to be made, why limit it in a way that doesn’t allow for potential growth, as sliders would? If you’re going to go for it, go for it with gusto and make it matter!

Thats your OWN opinion, thats fine, but don’t generalize.
To me and and many others, its not wasted.
You can think whatever you want but don’t blunder with stating it would be wasted.

Nice way to dodge the other points, but regardless, of course it would be wasted. The vast majority of players (and no one in WvW) would deliberately disadvantage themselves. A slider fails the cost/benefit sniff test most stinkily.

Ronah.2869:

lordkrall.7241:

How is this thread still going on?
We have confirmation (as many of us stated when this was revealed) that it is for the Chinese release of the game, and yet people are still shouting about how much it sucks and how bad ArenaNet are.

I for one would say that you owe them an apology for this whole thread, but then again, who am I kidding?

If it was meant for Chinese then why the texts are in English? Shouldn’t they be in Chinese?

You build the framework in a language you can actually speak then let the translators modify it when you’re happy with it.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Everything thats making this game look nicer isn’t wasted.
Also, like I said, it wouldn’t be too hard to implement and, like you can see at this threat, there is a huge demand.

Your suggestion is gamechanging, therefore it has to be balanced and tested.

I… I didn’t realize you were threatening me.

Kidding, of course. It would be wasted (imo) because it wouldn’t be used except by maybe a handful of people, and it’s questionable if they’d keep it full time.

Yes, my concept would have to be balanced and tested (as would any changes to be honest). However you have to admit… it does open the door for more types of content to be added to the game. Why only change the darkness when you can also do so in a way that livens the game up with potentially new mobs, new events that kick off in the night, new strategies in WvW, etc?

If there’s a change to be made, why limit it in a way that doesn’t allow for potential growth, as sliders would? If you’re going to go for it, go for it with gusto and make it matter!

Chris Whiteside has been very vocal about the CDI threads he’s running and has been burning the candle at both ends to make them something beneficial to the community as a whole. They’re really worth not only looking at but contributing in as well. You are guaranteed to have your posts read by ANet.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

VOLKON.1290:

You left out that sliders would be a waste of time because people will, by nature, set things to be the most advantageous. Even those that try the slider initially will soon set it back once the disadvantage bites them in the butt. So disregard the slider, it’s a silly idea.

Greater darkness at night should be simply universal. No gimmicks, no sliders. What could be interesting is if in WvW you coupled the added darkness with a reduced distance in which you can see the enemy nameplates. Suddenly the night would actually mean more in WvW. (This wouldn’t work with sliders, btw… you can see the enemies at a great distance even before you see nameplates.)

What would ultimately be needed to be decided is how much darker should it be? Pitch black? No, too much for this game. Dark enough to reduce vision to the limits of the minimap perhaps? That’s interesting there… maybe half the minimap? Twice?

No sliders, universal darkness level, reduce nameplate visibility in proportion to darkness level… this could prove to be rather interesting.

Me myself, as dedicated PvE player would use this all the time.
A slider, where you can adjust the percentage brightness may be over the top, but it wouldn’t be gamebreaking or hard to implement.

You talk about a gamechanging update, I just talk about a QoL uptdate

Something like this, in order to not be effectively a waste of time, should have some actual impact in the game if implemented. Just allowing a slider and the option to make it darker means that it would be rarely used, and not at all in WvW, so there’s no actual benefit to the vast majority. However implementing it universally in a balanced way can have much greater benefits as mentioned in the possible WvW scenario above. Right now we agree that night really doesn’t mean anything in the game. Most of the time I don’t even realize it’s night.

But you know what would mean something? Phasing the moon and adjusting darkness to the phase of the moon. Full moon would be as bright as it is now, new moon would be considerably darker (but not so dark as to hamper play significantly). Then you could even do more than have crickets chirp at night… you could have mobs spawn that only spawn during a certain level of darkness. Extra nasty creatures of the darkness with unique drops would be a wonderful addition to the concept. A little greater risk, a little greater reward. On the WvW side you could see groups waiting to try a golum rush under cover of darkness. Small yet sneaky groups of players would be able really strut their stuff then.

Make it universal, then build off it.

However the actual CDI threads actively have developers in there talking with the community and working through ideas together.

Hexyn.8462:

Add it! for those so opposed.. why not complain about costume brawl instead?

By that logic, if you want to duel, do costume brawling instead.

Check the CDI threads, this is already being discussed.

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

You left out that sliders would be a waste of time because people will, by nature, set things to be the most advantageous. Even those that try the slider initially will soon set it back once the disadvantage bites them in the butt. So disregard the slider, it’s a silly idea.

Greater darkness at night should be simply universal. No gimmicks, no sliders. What could be interesting is if in WvW you coupled the added darkness with a reduced distance in which you can see the enemy nameplates. Suddenly the night would actually mean more in WvW. (This wouldn’t work with sliders, btw… you can see the enemies at a great distance even before you see nameplates.)

What would ultimately be needed to be decided is how much darker should it be? Pitch black? No, too much for this game. Dark enough to reduce vision to the limits of the minimap perhaps? That’s interesting there… maybe half the minimap? Twice?

No sliders, universal darkness level, reduce nameplate visibility in proportion to darkness level… this could prove to be rather interesting.

IndigoSundown.5419:

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

You can only instantaneously teleport to waypoints you already have so if a friend is leveling somewhere and you want to go there with your alt to level but don’t have the waypoints yet then it can easily be a 15 min walk. This benefit would take away those 15 min. I think thats pretty huge.

If I waypoint to a friend at a new location as you mention, how does this harm your game play in any way, shape or form? Shoot, would you even know I did it?

“I’d swear there were only three invaders in that keep. Where did the other twenty come from?” Remember that anything that works in PvE also works in WvW. It might not make a lot of difference every time, but I assure you I’d notice.

Actually… you’re wrong. What works in PvE is often disabled in WvW for that very reason.

Valanga.5942:

VOLKON.1290:

I think originally it was working more or less as intended, but people got them so quickly then were complaining about nothing more to shoot for gear-wise. (Not everyone has fully grasped the idea of working towards skins.) Ascended gear appeases to a degree many of the players that still seek gear progression yet does so in a subtle enough way (stat-wise) to not have any real impact on the game or the content. The time sink is fairly extensive, and when you consider alts people will be working on ascended sets for quite some time. By then new skins or ascended sets can be introduced with no actual stat increase or we could see Legendary gear (again with no stat increase, yet with added perks).

There’s one little thing which is wrong in your argument… You’re assuming the existence of a category of players which would be a mass of mindless drones looking for a + 1 on stats.

Ah, there’s your problem. You’re assuming there isn’t. When I raided in WoW you were constantly looking for that little plus here or there… it’s part of the min/max mentality. If there’s a plus 1 to be had, there’s a group of people that will go for it. Look up min/max if you’re not sure what I’m talking about.

Valanga.5942:

I guarantee you that even the old schooler of the old school MMO players doesn’t care about the “+1”, but looks for progressively challenging content tied with progressively better gear.

There are some, true. There are also others that check gear score before anything.

Valanga.5942:

So no, ANet didn’t add the Ascendant treadmill (INB4 “there’s no treadmill”, there is, and it’s called infusions) to please the players who wanted vertical progression, because a number of those players already figured out that GW2 lack the basis for a proper vertical progression (wich is new gear = new content designed for said gear), so they already moved to games that does it better.
And even if it was the case, as i already asked in another thread, what once they got full ascendant?
On the other hands, another number of players who didn’t want a new tier of gear got kittened and left or are still here complaining.
The only players who are happy with the move ANet made are those who every time the devs does something that upset the community, runs and check every single word of the Manifesto and every other blog post, interview and what else, looking for a comma, or a word that could be turned into a “See? They planned it all along! They didn’t lie! I’m definitely ok with that!”.

I’m seeing a lot of projection here. People comfortable with the changes don’t go running around looking for validation with the changes… it’s people with the ‘bash the game’ mentality that go picking through every uttered word or phrase in a feeble attempt to bash the game yelling “Liars! Liars!”. It’s completely ridiculous. If I’m going back through the manifesto it’s to demonstrate that the false accusations being tossed about against the game and the people who make it are full of guano, nothing more.