Guild Wars 2

I LOL’d so hard when I downed 3 ppl from dagger earth 5 in ranked. I stood on the engie healing turret when casting. Didn’t think I could get away with it.

I bet every person on that balance team mains d/d ele

abc and fay were right on about necromancers countering condi mes and most run pu. Power wells, cele sig and even MM are effective but how you’d approach the engagement will vary by build.

No need to nerf mesmers.

Bellizare.5816:

Was on a loser streak, then fell into a match where we came back to win 500 vs 499. Closest match I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately, there seem to be too many matches that end 500 vs 0. No way you can convince me that is good match making. No wonder people leave of afk.

I know some players are notorious AFKers but I agree that sometimes I feel the actions of AFKers are justified because they fell victim to bad matchmaking.

Leaving or AFKing is better for your health because it’s not good for your blood pressure to endure watching your team and importantly, yourself get farmed over and over again.

Pimsley.3681:

ok I win.

after a few min, I got so bored I started doing the unfathomable…liking friends’ selfies.

I’d rather kill golems or space out completely than do that.

online, archon, pimsley, nexed, eurantien, abc secret na acct – I’ve had the pleasure of fighting amongst them and the displeasure of fighting against them.

Very solid pvpers, be glad if they end up in your NA team.

I guess there is validity to OP’s rant.

First test ladder season rank and win ratio. I didn’t participate in the second test ladder coz it literally became a grind fest.

All I can say is that I was not the highest MMR person between the 2 teams. The bug Evan Lesh discovered was alive and well.

I’ve noticed in these matches that there was a player I absolutely know who is much more skilled than I am (do I get props for my honesty?) and they were on the opposing team with super noobie teammates.

It’s REALLY annoying especially when going against a full premade of tourney players. Went against a team of 5 premade rangers in SH. Not at all enjoyable.

Seriously why cant we have solo queue. Pure solo queue based on our MMR. Imagine how much fun that would be.

It’s just so unfair to make solo people sacrifice into getting fed to these premade teams. If they want to compete, they can join weekly tourneys or go in a private server. It’s not right to make the majority sacrifice just so the minority premades get accommodation. These people can disband and play solo. That’s a lot more fair than having us go against them

So tired of feeding these premades.

They are sucking the life out of my enjoyment of this game.

Nah I don’t think these leather lovers will replace the support guard.

Currently, Rangers and Mesmers are at the top of the heap in 1v1. I think the Druid elite could secure their position as the best duelers out of all builds and classes. That’s probably the biggest threat they have – which isn’t that much really.

I guess we’ll just have to see how well they stack in a team. 2 or more of these could be a problem.

atlrising.5134:

Not trying to highjack the OPs thread but I feel his pain, I havent won a ranked match in two days. Thats somewhere around 0-16 in a two day period in ranked. Before you say get gud, I’ve finished second 14 of 16 time and last twice.

Don’t feel alone. That happened to A LOT of people. Most of them don’t even come to the forums. Sadly with the bug they’ve discovered, it also happens to people with very high MMRs that queue solo. But the good news is the devs are already working on the balancing problems.

I’ve been on a few matches against very skilled players who are also on this thread. My teammates and I actually felt bad for him for being teamed w/ clueless pvp people. The skill disparity was so obvious and sometimes, opponents see that better than teammates.

Pimsley.3681:

This is the thread that started it all.

The OP explained what I have observed in-game around the test ladder season. It’s also my go-to thread after feeling let down by how bad certain matches ended up. I referenced this a couple days ago to a pvper caught in a bad streak not knowing what the heck was going on (most of us have been there)

It was just absolutely epic that Evan announced earlier today that one of the bugs they’ve discovered and are currently working sound identical to what was explained here.

Props to the op OP of this thread.

THANK YOU

For linking this post on an active thread that Evan participated in. That may have led his team to finding the bugs or at least knowing what to look for.

This proves that this Forum is a valuable resource for the devs to keep improving their product.

Improved product = happy customers

The biggest challenge for them is knowing what to filter out. There are legit complaints on here but the majority of them are learn to play issues….because it’s easier to whine than it is to learn.

Glad Evan listened to the gut instincts of the right people!!!

OP – You just got some great feedback from veteran engies.

Rez your teammates if it’s safe to do so and in your case, it was.

I know some ppl are not inclined to do so because they are running with PUGS but you need to realize the disadvantages you have when outnumbered due to teammates at spawn.

The best pug teams from queuing solo behave similarly to premades in that they understand the importance of keeping each other alive and they respond fast to contested points while being map aware the entire time.

Dawdler.8521:

Vapour.7348:

The intent of your comment is quite sinister.

Sinister? There is nothing sinister about probability. A player make up 20% of the team, which can matter in individual matchups, but again over time the other 80% that you have no control over will dominate the deciding factor. Which is win or loose. Two states, no more no less. 50/50. You are not in control of your win ratio… Unless you start controlling the other players or play in custom arenas. But I assume we are talking random matchups.

This is neither a bad or sinister thing, its perfectly normal.

Because myself and a whole lot of pvpers have observed and experienced the shoddy matchmaking the game has.

And when people like you come in here and tell us we are wrong and the claims we make are false even if the devs admit that their system hasn’t been fair, what does that make you?

Btw, Lesh just posted a thread exactly about the things we were discussing here and matchmaking was indeed broken.

I’m not going to rub in just how awfully terribad wrong you were because Im not that kind of person.

Cheers!

meow one twenty.4376:

Vapour.7348:

I’d rather have wells be instacast instead of ground targeting. It’s not like you benefit from protection anyways if it isn’t placed where you stand

What does Protection have to do with ground targetting? (Serious question)

Before June patch, wells were not inherently ground targeting and must be traited if you wanted it.

They gave us a freebie by making all wells ground targeting.

I was saying that I’d rather have wells be instacast for its good synergy with vampiric rituals.

Edit: I changed some phrases to sound nicer

I’d rather have wells be instacast instead of ground targeting. It’s not like you benefit from protection anyways if it isn’t placed where you stand

ragnarokda.1805:

Vapour.7348:

So many bads in this thread it’s not even funny. I can counter a burn guard easily even if I’m not on my main (necro)

Bunker guards are a bigger pain than burn guards.

Burn engies have long cooldowns, and does little physical damage. Marauder or Soldier engies are a bigger threat.

Eles are not as easy to put down as the other 2 because they deal high physical damage, high condi damage, have good sustain and condi damage skills have short cool downs. That’s why they are generally disliked.

But burn damage is fine as it is.

You are not doing yourself a favor by posting on here how ignorant you are about cleansing one condition.

^^. Thanks guy!

If you really think about it, non-condi builds aren’t the only ones that have to bring cleanses to the fight if they don’t want to die from conditions…

:) We are just here to help them understand. And when they do, hopefully it will improve the quality of matches. I don’t mind losing a match as long as it was enjoyable and everyone did their best

ronpierce.2760:

I just want an honest answer by someone who defends Burning (and I’m not being aggressive, I really want someone to answer this):

Why does anyone consider Burning doing 4-5x the damage of other conditions, and is probably the second most stackable/Frequent AOE condition in the game, an okay thing? Poison, Torment, and Bleed get completely shafted, and even confusion lacks (though it at least has a niche against fast attackers).

.June patch reduced the baseline damage of all conditions and made them more powerful thru stacking. Before patch, the most burning stack you could do was 2 and that was pushing it to an unviable build.

They created condition burst damage and dot.

burst = stacked burning, torment, confusion = shorter duration
dot/attrition = bleeds, poison = always longer duration

confusion is harder to land than burning but if it lands at the right moment, you could 100-0 a high burst class in less time than the equivalent burn stack.

Now the part the devs did that was kind of unfair was they only allowed a few builds to stack burns.

Ex burns from dhuumfire, condi warrior are either very short or single stack. condi trap ranger doesn’t multi-stack, instead they burn by pulses. – that’s actually better on some scenarios where you still apply conditions after they’ve cleansed

The person who posted their stats is actually a very good player with a deep understanding of gw2 pvp. Unfortunately he only solo queues like I do. I’ve encountered him in-game many times as both a teammate and an opponent. I respect that he posted his stats to share with you what the results looked like and didn’t mind being transparent.

This isn’t like the former soloQ where a 50% win rate was more predictable and a measurement of your skill. Today, when teamed with inexperienced players plus matches against premades, it isn’t fair to say that 50% win rate is expected for solo queuers.

In fact, there was a thread posted above on how solo queue further punishes higher MMR players.

I’m not defending the guy who posted his stats. All Im saying out of my experience is that he is a skilled and competent player who is a cut above the majority

I say DON’T NERF ELE.

Instead buff the non-eles

So when one of the builds become OP and eles cry on the forum, we can just say that we were just getting caught up to their OPness and they should just endure the pain as much as we did for them. Since they didn’t get a nerf, why should we.

I promise you, they will cry on the forum once they realized they no longer at the apex.

But I doubt any other class will outrun the OPness eles enjoyed during the life of this game

Poliator.7021:

Oh yeah, they make the “odds of victory” thingie when the match is already made, or at least that’s what they tell officially? If you are referring to that, it’s team-wide even if you queue Solo, I believe.

I’ve wondered that many times, don’t worry, we all have felt like that I think.

Also, thank you for the clarification.

Sometimes it gets so bad you can’t help but laugh it all off. One match a teammate was complaining about how bugged the game was because he couldn’t get the treb to fire. I had to stop what I was doing coz I couldn’t concentrate anymore from loling hard. It was even a challenge for me to type in that he was on the opponents treb.

Poliator.7021:

Vapour.7348:

Dawdler.8521:

GrandHaven.1052:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

The intent of your comment is quite sinister. It seems to me that the current matchmaking is just fine with you and that you don’t give a care that experienced players are algorithmically being pulled down and prevented from progressing. That or
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

More than anything, your comment is disrespectful to the OP and others who have experienced unfair matchmaking.

The devs admitted it’s not very fair and that “streaks” do happen depending on MMR. Yet, we have no idea what it is because it’s hidden from us. And all of that seems to be okay with you. That’s fine with me but you have no right to speak for us about the answers we seek.

I have maybe read wrong. Before saying anything more, I agree that we have a lot of information about the current system “hidden” from us: we don’t have numbers, statistics, etc…

That said, on one hand, Evan said the system always tries to do a 50/50 matches, which is natural. On top of that, the OP has been playing a lot recently as Evan has also said, which makes OP’s MMR to adjust more slowly. Id est, 50/50 matches with little MMR movement should mean he has been playing with his the same MMR players pool (ideally).

So… no losing streak should affect him I believe? Maybe I understood wrong. This is, not taking into account what Justin said (which is 5 months old and it could have been changed, who knows).

If we consider Justin information, then it might be not a “losing streak” effect but simply bad luck due to a bad matchmaking (and even this is uncertain given the information on Justin post, because he writes that MMR isn’t the only factor that affects matchmaking).

Then, all of these affirmations are based on the lack of information we have: Justin said matchmaking in the oversimplification seemed unfair, but there are other factors considered (that we don’t know); while Evan just told that, while there’s no streak-prevention system other than MMR, OP’s MMR wasn’t volatile, so he should have faced people of his same skill (ideally).

I have experienced losing streaks as well and it sucks. But I’ve had winning streaks and “normal(?)” streaks as well (50/50). We can just hope matchmaking gets better.

P.S.: It’s interesting how, at least in this case, the profession MMR (which doesn’t factor into matches as Evan clarified) was pretty “accurate”. It’s good to know that.

This wasn’t from 5 months ago, but I remember a thread where Justin said the matches you enter are pre-determined or at least has a percentage of your win ratio for that match. He made a comment telling someone that they had an x% of winning a certain match. And the number wasn’t 50.

That confirms that you are in literally an underdog team that matchmaking created in favor of your opponents.

And we’re not stupid, we didn’t need the confirmation that we were in the weaker team because we figured it out already. Don’t tell me you have never been deflated and wondered what in heavens name your team is doing and why you were teamed with them in the first place.

Dawdler.8521:

GrandHaven.1052:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

The intent of your comment is quite sinister. It seems to me that the current matchmaking is just fine with you and that you don’t give a care that experienced players are algorithmically being pulled down and prevented from progressing. That or
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

More than anything, your comment is disrespectful to the OP and others who have experienced unfair matchmaking.

The devs admitted it’s not very fair and that “streaks” do happen depending on MMR. Yet, we have no idea what it is because it’s hidden from us. And all of that seems to be okay with you. That’s fine with me but you have no right to speak for us about the answers we seek.

YuiRS.8129:

abc.5790:

Prisoner.2419:

Take a moment to consider the number of high-tier viable builds that rely on burning for damage.

Now take another moment to consider the number of high-tier viable builds that rely on bleeds/poison/confusion/torment for damage.

It should be clear that some balancing needs to be done.

Burning is burst condi damage
As is confusion and torment

Poison and bleeds are attrition DOT condi damage. That is why they have a much longer duration.

Except long condies don’t work in PvP and condi burst in insanely OP. Because condi cleanse. Burst damage is always king in PvP.

He was simply educating the person he quoted the roles of different conditions and that confusion/torment ARE in fact burst conditions.

So many bads in this thread it’s not even funny. I can counter a burn guard easily even if I’m not on my main (necro)

Bunker guards are a bigger pain than burn guards.

Burn engies have long cooldowns, and does little physical damage. Marauder or Soldier engies are a bigger threat.

Eles are not as easy to put down as the other 2 because they deal high physical damage, high condi damage, have good sustain and condi damage skills have short cool downs. That’s why they are generally disliked.

But burn damage is fine as it is.

You are not doing yourself a favor by posting on here how ignorant you are about cleansing one condition.

Ok so moving forward.

This in an important question most of us would appreciate answers to:

If you’re a solo queue player and of above average pvp skill and want to increase your MMR, how will that be possible if you get teamed up with a lot of newer players that are clueless?

How can a solo queue player possibly escape from being pooled in with people that further pull their MMRs down?

Why should a solo queue player be forced into organizing a full premade team when solo queuers make up the majority of the population?

Shouldn’t team players conform to solo queuers instead?

I’m saying have team players disband and play as a solo queue since they only make up a minority instead of having solo queuers be forced to match vs them. Besides, if they want to play as a team, there are tournaments available.

Solo queuers are left with no other options but be consistently tired and deflated and uninspired by all the mismatches with noobs that just started playing last month

UGH not another one of these burns op threads again….

Burns are not OP. All they do is use up your cleansing. You don’t have any? Well too bad, you deserve it for not adapting or for being greedy towards increasing your damage output with your traits and utilities

Burn guardians are not OP, let them be. Burn guards and engies make the game more challenging. And no I don’t play high burn stacking classes.

These burn builds are child’s play to counter compared to a much much much more dangerous build that I know of but luckily under-represented atm.

That engie is one lucky basturrd. Just recently, out of 4 elixirs, only 1 blessed me w/ Rampage.

Moa Aoe is noice.

You know what, I wouldn’t mind if moa and elixir swapped CDs.

warriors are not in a great spot atm.

maybe the reason the elixir elite cd is lower for engies is because we get tornado 7/10 times. at least that’s what it feels like.

Maybe you’re a nice guy but my necro throws a fit and is anything but friendly when it rallies opponents. Happened last match and the one before

I’ve seen far far worse misinformation in class subforums especially when you bring up something pvp related. And when you explain the facts, theyre minds are made up so the discussion ends with them lingering in their ignorance.

These pvp guys aren’t too bad.

I’ll clarify. Trapper runes offer 3s superspeed but I’m sure you’re all aware that this rune is not available in spvp.

The OP probably meant quickness and his mistake was only syntax. There are traits and utilities for ranger quickness but it’s not 100% uptime. Swiftness sources are abundant and if traited, a ranger could have perma swift.

Sword 2, 3 and dagger 4 are evades with “speedy” animation including ones that go behind and around you.

OP, the answer is yes, they hear us BUT with deaf ears.

You see, unlike elementalists, engies are under-represented in all 3 game modes. So if a popular class complains about us, rest assured we will get man handled until we are a threat no more.

Then there are idiots on this subforum that start threads about how engies are doing fine just fine.

It’s mind numbing how inconsistent our traits and utilities are. One example is the flame thrower. WTF is that a condi utility or direct damage? It cant be both because Anet made sure that the celestial amulet is out of reach for us.

You know, stuff like that…..

June patch scaled back ALL condition damage so in order to be effective, your condi skills and traits needed stacks. Eles got burning stacks, guards have burning stacks. Engies? Nope. Nades became a power based utility and the conditions it applied did not receive stack bonuses.

Then they put incendiary powder out of reach as a grandmaster trait under firearms. Meanwhile eles get high burn stacks with low cooldowns, a free cleanse that also applies 3 stacks of burning AND elemental attunement baseline.

You know, cow manure like that….

coz before the patch, cele rifle engies OWNED elementalist.

Another build that OWNED elementalists pre patch were celestial shoutbow warriors….

Edit: Im referring to engies in spvp

lighter.2708:

if the mesmer has condi transfer, guard is dead

I agree, Arcane Thievery is good against burn guards because you get to steal their boons also.

In PVP – IT IS NOWHERE NEAR IT USED TO BE BEFORE JUNE PATCH

I made a post warning people about its messed up traits and be concerned about that right when everyone was so caught up on the nades bug.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sad-End-for-The-Engineers/

Alekt.5803:

Nova Stiker.8396:

@Godservant.8736

That is a terrible how to kill an Ele guide.

First off GOOD elementalists start in fire, it helps with the might stack rotations. If a D/D elementalist can’t stack 20+ stacks of might it is going to do crap damage.

Secondly it is better to NOT heal yourself with Signet of Restoration as ele’s can easily get 3,000 health back in under 10 seconds. Not to mention you are healed off channeling ticks meaning that Cone of Cold can heal you 4,000+ health.

Interrupts are not super harmful but you are right about Chill. We are the only class in the game where Chill can slow our weapon swapping. Not to mention many of our skills has 20+ second cooldowns meaning staying in one attunement is BAD and you must constantly swap attunements to keep up the damage.

---

Elementalists are getting nerfed and I am glad for it. I am seeing way to many players hop onto this class and mash buttons like idiots. Idiots that take me to long to punish because they mash their cantips at the very first sign of CC. Not to mention poor skill rotation or flat out poor skill choices. It’s practically insulting.

So I had to try the Cone of Cold part. I can confirm that it does not proc Signet of Restoration at every ticks of the channel.

Yeah I’ve always known that SoR procs per spell cast not per channel tick.

But I do love his big man speech about how bad eles that mash buttons and spam cantrips insult him (coz you know, he’s a d/d ele god. death to noobs)

And yet he is incorrect about its basic healing mechanics.

But that’s how the forum works. It’s easier to talk big and have delusions of grandeur than it is to be a good player…coz that takes practice.

Edit: I’m sure NovaStriker is a good pvper but it’s not nice for him to be so tough on the button mashing noobs when he himself isn’t familiar with the class

Salamander.2504:

Burn guard shines brightest +1’ing a team fight. Condi PU mesmer has the 1v1 advantage.

+1 tyvm

Random Weird Guy.3528:

This never left? There’s a reason pure condi comps don’t exist in tournaments.

+1 tyvm

The way I see it is rangers are like thieves – only 5% are useful. Most are braindead and are getting carried by their pets.

In a recent match at mid, after my necro downs 3, the idiot ranger stood at ledge and pew pewed instead of helping me stomp. I ended up getting downed and the idiot ranger still stood at ledge and pew pewed some more.

I play ranger too but at least I make an effort to be useful to the team. Heck, I even have a build where I use healing spring when going against condi heavy teams.

@OP – bud, Mesmer will always have the upper-hand in ANY 1v1 situations.

Doesn’t matter if they are direct damage or condi dealers.

Doesn’t matter if they are going against burn guard, survival ranger, ele…

Well survival ranger may be close one. I’m tellin’ ya, dem pets got smartuur or at least more useful

zapv.8051:

Vapour.7348:

style.6173:

Salamander.2504:

Vapour.7348:

Ansilon.6230:

The fact of the matter, to all those that support and run burn builds, is that it’s simply overpowered. 2 stacks is equal to almost 1.4k DPS. Any other condition at 2 stacks is simply not as strong. There is no skill in applying the burning condition what so ever in my opinion. So, for anyone to support this claim is bonkers xD a

Burn damage from high burn stacks is a low tier problem.

One trick pony builds (high burn stack builds) don’t sustain well in more advanced matches PLUS almost everyone has cleansing. Exception is dd ele but I consider that a medium burn stack build

So all the fuss about burn damage are from people that are big on whining and small on pvp acumen.

I support it because it makes pvp a bit more challenging and forces boneheads to equip cleansing or pay the price. A lot pay the price then start kittentt threads about burning and why it should get nerfed.

lol at eles being medium burn stack.

Burns are easy mode right now. Also try to understand how condition clear works. It is way easier to apply conditions on shorter cool down than it is to cleanse them.

If you don’t get that burn stacking is broken, then you either don’t PvP or you play a burn stacking build.

I play power and cele signet necro.

Marauder 2kit hgh amr engie

Marauder survival ranger

shout guardian and warrior

d/d eles could do considerable burn damage but they cannot condi burst like guardians, engies

condi mesmers with their torment/confusion burst that’s often mixed in with bleeds and burns are a bigger threat than burn givers.

I don’t play a burn class because of how easy they are to counter.

Yeah, this is how I feel. Pretty much every condi build feels way better to me with a cele amulet because I’m not as kitten against anyone good at managing condi removal. Maybe burning does a little, and I mean a little too much damage, but it has a ton of counterplay. It certainly isn’t comparable in effectiveness to a lot of burst builds.

Also, most of the other condis need damage buffs, can’t remember the last time I saw a condi build based around something other than burn.

For the first time in 2 years, it’s not a bad time for necro mains

condi Mesmers beat burn guards 70% of the time 1v1 in dueling servers

style.6173:

Salamander.2504:

Vapour.7348:

Ansilon.6230:

The fact of the matter, to all those that support and run burn builds, is that it’s simply overpowered. 2 stacks is equal to almost 1.4k DPS. Any other condition at 2 stacks is simply not as strong. There is no skill in applying the burning condition what so ever in my opinion. So, for anyone to support this claim is bonkers xD a

Burn damage from high burn stacks is a low tier problem.

One trick pony builds (high burn stack builds) don’t sustain well in more advanced matches PLUS almost everyone has cleansing. Exception is dd ele but I consider that a medium burn stack build

So all the fuss about burn damage are from people that are big on whining and small on pvp acumen.

I support it because it makes pvp a bit more challenging and forces boneheads to equip cleansing or pay the price. A lot pay the price then start kittentt threads about burning and why it should get nerfed.

lol at eles being medium burn stack.

Burns are easy mode right now. Also try to understand how condition clear works. It is way easier to apply conditions on shorter cool down than it is to cleanse them.

If you don’t get that burn stacking is broken, then you either don’t PvP or you play a burn stacking build.

I play power and cele signet necro.

Marauder 2kit hgh amr engie

Marauder survival ranger

shout guardian and warrior

d/d eles could do considerable burn damage but they cannot condi burst like guardians, engies

condi mesmers with their torment/confusion burst that’s often mixed in with bleeds and burns are a bigger threat than burn givers.

I don’t play a burn class because of how easy they are to counter.

Grimreaper.5370:

abc.5790:

Grimreaper.5370:

abc.5790:

Zerker warriors counter d/d eles the same way shoutbow warriors countered them before the June patch

Wat?

¿què?

Zerker warrior builds do not counter d/d ele meta build.

Certain ranger builds and zerker warriors soft counter d/d eles. Although not a direct hard counter because dd els don’t have one atm, I’ve witnessed rampage warriors down d/d eles from full hp in less than 15s.

Jackalrat.5493:

Vapour.7348:

Jackalrat.5493:

The enemy team wasn’t a premade. Sort of hilarious that everyone assumes that. No, this was just pub vs pub.

The entire point of this post is that out of a group of 5 random players they ALL were running burn builds because they’re so strong atm.

I am really, really concerned for the future of this game’s community with this kind of reading comprehension…

That being said, with SO many players running burn builds now, not surprised a lot of people would come out loudly and angrily insisting burning be kept as it is. The most powerful, popular source of damage. :P

Well that’s kinda the fault of each person in your team that didn’t carry cleansing. All my characters have cleanses.

Out of the 5 burners you went against, only 2 (the eles) could deliver physical damage. The other 3, once their condi bursts are on CD, are pretty much sitting ducks. Your team wasn’t helpless, you guys actually had the upper hand.

One last thing, Trap rangers are not a threat at all. Burns from traps are a ripoff for them. They don’t multi-stack, they pulse. Once you’ve set the trap, just back out of it and you wont get 6 stacks of burning like you would from ring of fire.

The fact that you’re telling me (quite incorrectly) that my team had the “upper hand” without knowing our composition, builds, etc…basically proves you have an agenda here, and that’s taking priority over the truth for you.

You made yourself sound like a helpless victim and you didn’t mention on your OP about your teams comp. Since you were complaining about burns in general you made it seem like things were normal from your end and that the opponents all being burn givers were not normal.

The games matchmaking governs a big part of what you’ll confront. It’s up to your team to adjust and balance out your comp. If you guys knew your comp would be hard countered but made no effort to improve while breathing with your mouths open, then yeah, I’m not surprised of the outcome.

Not sure why this is a big deal. It’s common for solo queue matches to end up lopsided.

Doesn’t affect at all coz I don’t run full condi builds. And if they did nerf the builds Im currently running, I’ll still do well coz I adapt and thrive.

abc.5790:

Anet loves:
-eles
-guards
-mesmers

Anet is neutral towards:
-thieves
-warriors

Anet hates:
-necros
-engies
-rangers

If you’re speaking of the present, then I mostly agree. I think necros belong somewhere between hate and neutral and mesmers belong between love and neutral

Weren’t mesmers OP from game’s release until summer 2013-ish?

Mesmer

If beginners gravitate towards condi builds, then they should understand the basic mechanics of condition damage and therefore be aware of its effects. Awareness includes the importance of having cleanses.

If you conclude beginners gravitate towards condi builds, isn’t it weird for them to easily die from it at the same time? More than anyone else, they should be more cautious towards other conditions and have good defense against the same exact thing they try to kill others with.

I actually believe that beginners are more inclined to high dps physical damage more than conditions. Of course the difference between a highly skilled player and a noob is how much of their skills actually land on opponents and how much longer they survive in combat.

Salamander.2504:

Guys, the OP even states:

GrandHaven.1052:

They literally are getting carried to higher levels of play because lower tiers do not know how to deal with conditions
……
and consistently face players that are completely above their skill level to such an extend that they don’t even have a chance in 1v1 or even the slightest idea how to play PVP.

To summarize: condi’s are effective at low levels, but not at high levels. The OP even states that condi’s cannot carry the lower player effectively at high levels.

Exactly what is the problem?

Not sure. On his first post, he said he runs a guild that teaches pvp and that conditions are too effective in low tiers.

From the gist of his post, his low tier guildies are getting owned by condis and that condis are bad for the game coz it’s not fun for them. I think he wants devs to cripple the effectiveness of condition damage so his low tier guildies could run brain dead dps builds coz they don’t like wasting traits/utilities on cleansing