The fact of the matter, to all those that support and run burn builds, is that it’s simply overpowered. 2 stacks is equal to almost 1.4k DPS. Any other condition at 2 stacks is simply not as strong. There is no skill in applying the burning condition what so ever in my opinion. So, for anyone to support this claim is bonkers xD a
Burn damage from high burn stacks is a low tier problem.
One trick pony builds (high burn stack builds) don’t sustain well in more advanced matches PLUS almost everyone has cleansing. Exception is dd ele but I consider that a medium burn stack build
So all the fuss about burn damage are from people that are big on whining and small on pvp acumen.
I support it because it makes pvp a bit more challenging and forces boneheads to equip cleansing or pay the price. A lot pay the price then start kittentt threads about burning and why it should get nerfed.
The enemy team wasn’t a premade. Sort of hilarious that everyone assumes that. No, this was just pub vs pub.
The entire point of this post is that out of a group of 5 random players they ALL were running burn builds because they’re so strong atm.
I am really, really concerned for the future of this game’s community with this kind of reading comprehension…
That being said, with SO many players running burn builds now, not surprised a lot of people would come out loudly and angrily insisting burning be kept as it is. The most powerful, popular source of damage. :P
Well that’s kinda the fault of each person in your team that didn’t carry cleansing. All my characters have cleanses.
Out of the 5 burners you went against, only 2 (the eles) could deliver physical damage. The other 3, once their condi bursts are on CD, are pretty much sitting ducks. Your team wasn’t helpless, you guys actually had the upper hand.
One last thing, Trap rangers are not a threat at all. Burns from traps are a ripoff for them. They don’t multi-stack, they pulse. Once you’ve set the trap, just back out of it and you wont get 6 stacks of burning like you would from ring of fire.
Their threat had little to do with burning but more to do with them being a premade.
To be perfectly blunt, it is kindergarten easy to beat their comp. If you solo queued, blame the system for matching you vs them. If you were in a premade, then you guys are terrible, pls go back to pve.
And no burning is not too strong, you can immediately deny them from damaging you, unlike physical damage.
Wait – you mean tournament rules actually check WHERE a player is from instead of which server they’re on?
Why? Why would anyone care which country someone is from?? Who’s business is their citizenship…? What is this some government sanctioned event or something?
Video games are borderless people! Countries do not exist. The only real thing is lag.
mind blown
I agree that video games are borderless in general.
My guess is that in tournament levels where prizes are handed out, things get more restrictive because of maybe taxes or BS lawyers wrote down in the rules and regulations.
I careless about d/d eles and will have no empathy if they were to become useless. They’ve been overly powerful for too long. As long as fresh air stays the same or perhaps get a buff, I careless if the d/d build were gutted
Smart players will always be overly powerful no matter the level of nerfs you hope for…you’ll see for yourself soon enough, have faith.
A lot of smart players that main engineer have quit the game due to the destruction of its traits. On the opposite end, a lot of flavor of the month eles have emerged due to the overly powerful trait buffs it received.
This has nothing to do with being smart or what smart players do. This is not a L2P issue like a lot of people have with burn damage.
This is about a build so broken, that tournaments have implemented a maximum cap on stacking classes.
No condi players generally aren’t able to perform nearly as well with power builds.
My main is necro, power necro but I also play cele signet and multiclass power and condi builds.
In my tier, I was way more effective playing the dps medi guard than I do with the burn guard. Some folks here defend burn guards and burning in general because they play it. Good for them. I defend it because it is generally easy to counter and they add a new damage source to the game. I think pvp is more challenging that way and I’d hate to see it get nerfed.
I careless about d/d eles and will have no empathy if they were to become useless. They’ve been overly powerful for too long. As long as fresh air stays the same or perhaps get a buff, I careless if the d/d build were gutted
When solo queuing, matchmaking could randomly put you into a “streak”. Just think that someone solo queuing right now is enjoying a long streak of wins while you were placed in the losing side of things. Streaks aren’t permanent of course and you’ll be back to normal matches soon.
what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind.
Power creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Buff the necessary, nerf the necessary. No one should be good at everything.
You know it’s interesting how everyone on the team already feels spent and deflated before match begins when facing a team with 2 or more eles than you have.
I had a match last night, 3 eles and a mes on my team, with me as a Mes main. Before the match begun I had to DC because my kid woke up. After dealing with her logged back in, entered the match late, and we still won 500-100 -_-u
Ouch.
Made me think of times when I’d get mixed in with people like that team you went against.
what I’d really like to see is a buff on the classes that are trailing behind.
Power creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Buff the necessary, nerf the necessary. No one should be good at everything.
You know it’s interesting how everyone on the team already feels spent and deflated before match begins when facing a team with 2 or more eles than you have.
I was landing my gs skills pretty easily…. gs5 and gs 4 let you land gs2 and gs3 as does rs3 and rs5. Warhorn 4 and dagger 3 also help and you can use the new elite shout to land then as well.
I hope there will be another BW to try this out. I’d be a happy lil camper if I could land 1 out 3 gravediggers.
Thanks fellas. On paper gravedigger looks absolutely OP but applied on combat, it’s laughable how much I miss. I can see how it could commit bloody murder on team fights out of stealth. The 1 time it landed (out of 20+ attempts) did around 7k dmg but missed the 2nd no cd strike.
Im sorry I didn’t mention this was for pvp because it’s all I do so I forget that others do pve and wvw as well.
ronpierce – even just an extra 50 range on GS 3 would make it far more useful while still remaining within melee range. Our GS 5 is as worthless as the ele dagger 5 on earth and fire.
Landing GS skills is as flaky as ranger GS 2 and ele fire dagger 5.
Spent most of my time in RS and didn’t even bother attacking with GS coz it never lands. AA is ok, slow but ok. The rest of the GS skills are kinda bad tbh. Unless Im doing something wrong….
I’d love to hear how you guys are able to make it for you.
- My win ratio when solo queue existed was shy of 60%
- Win ratio during first test ladder where I solo queued and went against premades were 54% and finished top 100
- I didn’t participate second test ladder because it was too much grinding
- My win ratio during this beta test weekend is 30%
Something is really really fishy with matchmaking. I hate to say this but I’d rather go against full premades as long as my teammates were veteran pvp pugs like I am.
But teaming with clueless people has really degraded the pvp experience.
It’s good that there are new players and since there are many of them, it would be wiser to have them go against one another instead of looping us along.
You know I’d hate to see the over nerfing of eles. I think if they did the following, dd eles would still be competitive but not too op:
- reduce RoF burn stacks from 3 to 1
or
- increase RoF CD from 10s traited to 30s traited
plus
- increase blinding ashes CD from 5s to 15s
The fire line is the root of all evil. Adjustments should be focused on the fire line.
RoF CD is way more important to S/D-Eles than D/D…..
just nerf the mainhand-dagger in terms of physical DPS and burning-duration – it’s really that simple.
Nobody plays S/D ele because it’s too glassy, and right now the last thing we need is more ele sustain buff, so it’s not relevant atm. If it can hurt a build that is played by basically 50%+ of the players who que for ranked and as a side effect also hurts a build used by the 0.001% I’d say it should totally get a nerf.
You know I’d hate to see the over nerfing of eles. I think if they did the following, dd eles would still be competitive but not too op:
- reduce RoF burn stacks from 3 to 1
or
- increase RoF CD from 10s traited to 30s traited
plus
- increase blinding ashes CD from 5s to 15s
The fire line is the root of all evil. Adjustments should be focused on the fire line.
RoF CD is way more important to S/D-Eles than D/D…..
just nerf the mainhand-dagger in terms of physical DPS and burning-duration – it’s really that simple.
Melee builds benefit from RoF much more than ranged. 1v1 it’s easier to avoid RoF but in large scale team fights, your team is screwed if you don’t have cleansing. 2 dd eles could effortlessly apply upto 12 burning stacks every 10s.
The cooldown and number of might stacks is kittenedly overpowered.
I was thinking ahead, anticipated most of the stuff you guys said with matchmaking.
Just do what im doing now and create a free account to pvp with.
I reached the r20 minimum in no time and am competing in ranked. What’s absolutely hilarious is that despite having a noob MMR, the system is having me teamed up with some of the usual suspects (veteran pvpers)
I’m sure it will take a new person much longer to reach r20.
All I can wish for is to have more pvp participants but temporarily, it will be at the expense of us old timers. It would also be nice if more ppl participate in forum discussions.
I want to invite people to post responses with screenshots of the conditions and the damage done by them so that Arena net can finally own up and admit they broke the game leaving it in a worse state than it was pre June 23rd patch.
Sure thing! Here’s a screenie of my condi damage. Like you and your thief friend, I applied the deadly condis on golems!
ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.
removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.
The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.
devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.
the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.
I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.
The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.
I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.
Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.
The Turret Engie was an abomination in the fact that you could have 2 players with almost no experience, one with a Turret build and one with a number of other builds, and the Turret Engie could AFK kill the other. Sure at the top tier it didn’t matter as much, but at lower tiers it was unkillable. Scrubs matter, too.
Everyone who had experience knew Turret Engie’s weaknesses. The weaknesses were far less important than you give them credit for, mobility was particularly a poor argument. I remember the “just out rotate them” arguments that instsntly failed as soon as you had two Turret Engies on the same team. Poor defense may be so, but you could take the tankiest amulet and runes and your turrets would do the same damage as a glass cannon Turret build. Conditions worked, but pre-patch conditions weren’t nearly as lethal as they are now and kills took a long time considering how much damage they could output.
The tankiest amulet couldn’t protect them from conditions. I’ve countered tureteers with the rabid p/p and cele rifle engies, shatter Mesmer, condi trap ranger, staff ele….
It was also a known fact that turreteers owned d/d eles. I think most of the complaints were made by them. Makes me dislike d/d eles even more….
You didn’t contradict anything I said, so I guess what I said still stands.
The entire context my comment was agreeing with choovanski about how devs gutted the engineer starting with the turreteer build then its entire trait system.
I main a necro but the 2 kit engie pre-patch was my favorite.
You can only help those that seek help. Practicing incorrectly regardless of time spent will always yield inferior results.
It’s amazing how even some of the newest players have already developed “flawed” expertise about the game and if you try to teach, they get hostile and call you noob.
It’s so easy to counter burn guards. Please L2P, it really is a L2P issue when people complain about burn guards or engies.
d/d ele op, Inc guard nerf on next balance patch!.. and tooltips fixes. :P
@OP u play pvp if u like it….. or if want to test and learn few builds to counter it.
I actually like burn guards. They balance the game in a way and keep me on my toes when I dont trait/equip cleanses. Hope they dont get nerfed due to people complaining about them. Warriors, necros, earth dd eles and other condi builds counter burn guards.
because as soon as new pvpers reach the r20 minimum, they see it as a MONUMENTAL achievement and start queuing for ranked matches. This may flood ranked matches with new players.
I think this is healthy IF and ONLY IF matchmaking would work as intended and DOES NOT team newer players with more experienced ones – then have them go against a premade. That would make the experience absolutely UNENJOYABLE.
ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.
removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.
The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.
devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.
the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.
I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.
The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.
I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.
Devs should do the right thing and buff engies.
The Turret Engie was an abomination in the fact that you could have 2 players with almost no experience, one with a Turret build and one with a number of other builds, and the Turret Engie could AFK kill the other. Sure at the top tier it didn’t matter as much, but at lower tiers it was unkillable. Scrubs matter, too.
Everyone who had experience knew Turret Engie’s weaknesses. The weaknesses were far less important than you give them credit for, mobility was particularly a poor argument. I remember the “just out rotate them” arguments that instsntly failed as soon as you had two Turret Engies on the same team. Poor defense may be so, but you could take the tankiest amulet and runes and your turrets would do the same damage as a glass cannon Turret build. Conditions worked, but pre-patch conditions weren’t nearly as lethal as they are now and kills took a long time considering how much damage they could output.
The tankiest amulet couldn’t protect them from conditions. I’ve countered tureteers with the rabid p/p and cele rifle engies, shatter Mesmer, condi trap ranger, staff ele….
It was also a known fact that turreteers owned d/d eles. I think most of the complaints were made by them. Makes me dislike d/d eles even more….
ele could still run d/f for might stacking, but they wouldnt be able to reach such a high number. there bam some build diversity. im betting cele staff would come back too.
removal of ring of fire fixes the problem of d/d being able to stack crazy burns and the problem of d/d being able to maintain 20+ might. d/d stays tough, it just looses damage. sure the build is gutted, but remember what happened to cele engi? yeah.
The only time Ring of Fire stacks crazy burns is when it’s used against people with incredibly poor environmental awareness. 3 stacks? I can understand that. 6? Less understandable, but I suppose if you ran straight through trying to catch the ele. Anymore than that and you’re basically jumping off a cliff then complaining that fall damage is too strong. You’d basically make D/D a weapon set with 4 blast finishers but not a single combo field across all the attunements. The end goal of balancing shouldn’t be to “gut” things, it should be to fix them and bring them in line.
devs always choose to gut engineer, can’t see why ele should receive special treatment.
the condis from RoF have never bothered me, but they seem to kill a lot of people on the forum, which was my experience with turret engineers. my issue is that ele can maintain 20+ might. d/d becomes finisher heavy so it’s good at blasting in coordinated teamfights. peopen have to use d/f if they want blasts are the fire field.
I thought the brutal, merciless nerf to turrets was the final nerf engies would get. Nerf is an understatement, they pretty much killed the turret build. So many people complained about it without fully understanding its weaknesses – poor mobility, no defense outside turrets, poor condition cleansing… They were far easier to kill than the current d/d ele.
The turret nerf was then followed by the bigger – overall trait, condition scaling nerf last June.
I very much dislike d/d eles but even they don’t deserve the needless gutting engineers suffered and endured this year.
It is annoying to see people sporting the Legendary Champ title on classes they know little about. I have far more trust with Champion Class titles than the generic r80 one.
I’m not against this idea.
Also, on my alt account, I get the crappiest teams on specific classes and higher tier teams on other classes.
I can’t seem to stomp properly. When theyre down, I’d see the red icon to press F to stomp but nothing happens. I just kept getting attacked with no stomping animation. We’ve lost a few team fights coz of this. Stomp doesn’t activate, character just keeps auto attacking.
just the d/d ones that use celestial are underpowered. they deserve a second chance at fighting after they are effortlessly downed and that’s what the vampire runes help deliver.
Well, it’s obvious no?
Let’s put it this way.
We have 2 downed classes.
Ele vs Guardian – of course guardian will win and rally faster.
Ele vs Warrior – of course Warrior will rally faster and stomp ele.
Ele vs Ranger – of course Ranger will rally faster.
Ele vs Necromancer – of course Necromancer will kill ele and rally.
Ele vs Mesmer – of course Mesmer will spike ele down and rally.
Ele vs Thief – of course thief will kill ele in downed state and rally.
Ele vs Engi – of course engi will kill ele, because attacks faster and inflict conditions.
Ele vs Ele – balanced.
So, as you can see, Ele is underpowered and need to be boosted to match competitive and balanced arena such as eSport.
P.S – anet make Evasive Arcana baseline.
Not sure if you guys are just being facetious or sincere about eles being underpowered. There really are ppl on here that think eles are underpowered, myself included.
Instead of Evasive Arcana, I think Blinding Ashes should be baseline so we can use Pyromancers Puissance
Vampire runes not a bug on ele. It is working as intended.
I have no problem with pve lowbies but I’m just a bit curious about the Lvl 1 that end up in my team when solo queuing ranked.
They get flamed and insulted by pugs for being a noob lowbie but what fascinates me about them is that they know map rotations, small and large scale combat. Often, they carry the same people that insulted them for being a noob.
I’ve never fought along a Lvl 1 who didn’t know what to do. Is it safe to assume that Lvl 1 characters are veteran pvpers? The lowest lvl character I could pvp with is lvl 2.
2 or more thieves in your team equals FAIL if everyone is about equal skill level.
You have no idea how many times I want to afk when 2 thieves are in my team. I always give them the benefit of the doubt but they FAIL to deliver. FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL = 2+ thieves.
Ranked Solo Queue is all I do. Never have I had any issues with people who aren’t pve lvl 80. In fact, the only ones that complain about them are either noobie or terribad players.
