Guild Wars 2

hazenvirus.8154:

cesmode.4257:

Belenwyn.8674:

cesmode.4257:

As a sort of former player(not playing with any intentions of getting back into it anytime soon, but possibly in the future)…. I firmly believe that this company has no sense of what it wants to achieve. They want to be an industry leader with more content patches than any other game. Yet, the amount of content, new perma content, in the game is abysmally low.

Yes, with an expansion you may get a load of content all at once, and then nothing for maybe 6months to a year before a large content patch…. but its REAL meaty content. Its dungeons, skills, classes, races, story, zones, perma stuff. I know Anet is working toward more perma stuff, but for 2 years its been very temporary, no new dungeons if you exclude fractals (which isnt for everyone), two new zones(one abandoned in southshore and one that is being released incrementally), no new skills(don’t talk to me about the one or two silly healing skills that have no impact on my builds), no new races or classes, and a breadcrumb-like story.

Yeah, Id rather have that expansion now. I pay 60 bucks for it.

Where does this unlimited confidence come from that an expansion would be so much better and would satisfy all desires? An expansion would simply be the sum of all episodes of season 2 plus a feature pack of unknown size. If Arenanet is not able to deliver meaty stuff step by step, they are for sure not able the deliver it in one big batch. These are the same people. Simply casting the word “expansion” as a magical formula will not transform the employees in other persons in a magical way.

I would be able to play the expansion all at once for several weeks or a couple of months straight if I wanted. Fully immersed and excited in the game. After im done with that expansion content, I’ll either do what I would do now, or take a break. In its current form, I would play LS for a day or two, and then wait around until the next one.

At least the content would have some cohesiveness to it. All together, nicely nit and sewn…not sprinkled across a year like bread crumbs. “oh yah this happened in the story 3.5 months ago…”

Yeah! Imagine trying to read A Song of Fire and Ice if Martin released one chapter every three months. I have to read over the books now before the next to make sure I recall everything, but at least I can really dig into it when it is out. Right now that is what Living Story is only worse, more like a couple pages from a poorly written chapter. The method of delivery is such that I’ve never felt attached to the living story to the point that it feels like a chore to even try and pay attention. I honestly can’t wait for living story events to end when they are released.

But this isn’t Song of Fire and Ice and it’s not one chapter every three months it’s a chapter every two weeks. Obviously you’ve never heard of serials before like Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers.

What we’re playing is the MMO equivalent of a serial. It’s actually being made to be delivered in chapters. That’s the whole point of these cliffhangers.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

davadude.6017:

Ashen.2907:

Were Ursan and PI popular skills ? Of course they were, but claiming that everyone used or relied on them is ludicrous.

No, it’s evident now you were not active in GW1 during that time. Ursan Blessing was used everywhere, from DoA to FoW/UW, all the way to solo elite mission clears. Other metas at the time, such kitten, almost went defunct.

Anet nerfed it due to complaints about everyone requiring R8 ursan, and that is a fact.

Meta isn’t “everyone”. Never has been. Even during the ursan hype people happily played the game with viable builds that did not include it. Facts..Not “everyone” had EoTN. Not “everyone” with EoTN had the rank to use it. Nobody in PvP used it.. they couldn’t.

“Everyone” didn’t use it, or feel compelled to. It got nerfed because it was OP.

I agree and said as much. What I did say was that it was prevalent and that was a problem. Anet admitted this, why can’t you?

davadude.6017:

Ashen.2907:

Were Ursan and PI popular skills ? Of course they were, but claiming that everyone used or relied on them is ludicrous.

No, it’s evident now you were not active in GW1 during that time. Ursan Blessing was used everywhere, from DoA to FoW/UW, all the way to solo elite mission clears. Other metas at the time, such kitten, almost went defunct.

Anet nerfed it due to complaints about everyone requiring R8 ursan, and that is a fact.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Thanks Ashen for sparing me the trouble.
+1

Notice when he said I was making stuff up and I asked for an example he couldn’t furnish one. Nuff said.

Bowing out of an endless loop seems wise to me.

But you still took the time to post this. If you can’t furnish info where I’m making stuff up, some would call that slander.

petespri.6548:

Vayne.8563:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Thanks Ashen for sparing me the trouble.
+1

Notice when he said I was making stuff up and I asked for an example he couldn’t furnish one. Nuff said.

You should stop for a second and look at your post history. You are a full-time GW2 defender, and you fail to address his points.

You should get a job other than GW2 forum posting, LOL. No offense. If you are at a computer that much, you really should do some programming and get paid for being at the computer!

Or I can be retired and do what I please.

I’ve answered those posts in countless threads already but I do have a question for you.

Why do you ignore the posts I make where I find the game lacking? I can point you to several that are on the front page if you can’t find them.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Thanks Ashen for sparing me the trouble.
+1

Notice when he said I was making stuff up and I asked for an example he couldn’t furnish one. Nuff said.

but if you type /dance while you have it drawn, you dance on fire lol

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

Spiky.8403:

Wait, wait… did you really expect anything else besides story and gem store update? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Because we didn’t get part of a new zone in the first two chapters….oh wait…

Cursed shore is a better zone to farm. The events in these new zones are so “meh”. If you don’t unlock high tiers, its a gigantic waste of time. So unrewarding.
These zones will be pretty much dead, kinda like southsun.

Sorry to disappoint you but these zones are far from dead. Plenty of people do them. And saying X zone is a better zone to farm shows that all you care about is farming. Some people go to new zones to explore them. Get a change of scenary. Get the insect weapons.

Not to mention individual encounters in this zone are often harder than Orr, which some people like.

There’s new (or at least restored AI in the new zone), there’s new mechanics, and I see people in there all the time. We’ve gotten to Tier 5 a number of times as well.

But if all you want to do is farm, you don’t really need new zones do you?

Spiky.8403:

Wait, wait… did you really expect anything else besides story and gem store update? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Because we didn’t get part of a new zone in the first two chapters….oh wait…

I’ve always been pro mount. I’ve enjoyed them in other games and can’t really see why they’d hurt me in the game.

I do understand the grind point. I just hope we’ll have ways to get them in game without going to the cash shop.

Xenon.4537:

Vayne.8563:

I get that completely. It is a slippery slope. I just like mounts enough where that doesn’t bother me personally. I can see why it would bother others.

Do you believe it is worth adding something to the game which would hurt many players just because it would be a little extra vanity for others?

I actually think the amount of people who would welcome mounts is far greater than the people who dislike them. I can’t prove it. I have no evidence of it. But given that most people probably just accept the status quo anyway, I just don’t think the resistance to it will be as big as you might think.

I loved having mounts in Rift, one of the few things I ended up enjoying in the game. It’s one thing I’ve missed about other MMOs in Guild Wars 2. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.

I get that completely. It is a slippery slope. I just like mounts enough where that doesn’t bother me personally. I can see why it would bother others.

I’m not in the anti-mount crowd. I’ve always liked mounts in games. If Anet does add some cool mounts I won’t shed any tears over it. Mounts are just another thing to collect and individualize your character as far as I’m concerned.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Evolution is not revolution. Evolution is a slow, gradual change. Anet has made slow, gradual changes to the model that MMOs have been working on for years. Innovation has a certain connotation. I certainly know what I meant better than you do.

I made no comment about what you meant. I commented on what you said. If the two are not the same…

I tend to think that Anet were/are innovative. I think that they are, or at least are trying to be, revolutionary in their development of GW2. I do think that describing them as revolutionary and then arguing that you didn’t use the word revolutionary, similarly with innovative, is a bit odd in my opinion.

Claiming that other people are exaggerating to make a point while exaggerating to make a point is similarly a bit off in my opinion.

Claiming that you are just trying to defend the game against unfair arguments and the like while inventing facts to support your position is another one of those a bit off things in my opinion.

Feel free to bow out if you like. Perhaps someone will come in to defend the game factually, based on its merits, rather than blatantly making things up.

What exactly am I making up? I’d love to hear.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

You may not like what Anet has done, but no one else has come close to doing something similar. It’s why I’m here.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2, and I’ve said this before, is evolutionary, not revolutionary. It’s a half-step forward. But compared to what the rest of the industry has been doing for the last eight years, it might as well be revolutionary.

A claim that Anet is doing things that no one else has come close to doing is a claim that they are being revolutionary. It is also a claim that they are innovating or are innovative.

Vayne.8563:

I think you exaagerate to make points

Ahem…

Vayne.8563:

Everyone says, even people who agree with you, that this game is the best of a sorry lot.

Totally not an exaggeration right ?

Vayne.8563:

I’m responding to what I see are unfair comments.

But that is not all that you are doing…

Vayne.8563:

Everyone says, even people who agree with you, that this game is the best of a sorry lot.

You are putting words in other people’s mouths to a far greater degree than anyone is doing with you regarding the use of the word innovate rather than its definition.

Evolution is not revolution. Evolution is a slow, gradual change. Anet has made slow, gradual changes to the model that MMOs have been working on for years. Innovation has a certain connotation. I certainly know what I meant better than you do.

I am doing what I say I’m doing. Those who disagree with me won’t see it and that’s fine. Plenty of people can see it and have said so.

Whether you think I am or not is really not that important to me.

And I won’t be answering any more posts on the semantics of the conversation so feel free to get the last word if you want. The thread had been derailed for too long by people insisting they know what I’m saying better than I do.

You can do personal story when you’re level 80. You do not have to complete your personal story. Most people think ascended armor isn’t worth getting, but if you’re a min/maxer, you might disagree.

I have one character completely in ascended gear, the rest of my characters in exotics. kitten ed if I can tell the difference.

I tend to upgrade gear if it gets more than 10 levels behind, but I never buy top of the line stuff. Greens or even blues will be fine.

Because you level so fast, you won’t have it long enough to worry about.

Mega servers are servers that appear as needed. There’s an algorythm which attempts to place you in the server that makes the most sense, using your guild, your friends list and your home servers as part of the criteria for where it places you.

But it means there’s no more home server in PvE.

EotM is one train and a lot of people are farming Drytop, which isn’t a champ train but it’s still profitable. Orr is back in circulation though and the Frostgorge Train is still there.

Queensdale however is gone, due to most of the champs being turned into veterans.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I’m saying it means one and the same. Why choose to ignore the point I am making and instead focus on the wording rather than the content.

All wording is about nuance. Saying something is innovative has a very specific definition. You can stretch that definition if you want to include what I’ve said, but I don’t see it that way. I don’t see dynamic events as innovative. If anything is innovative it’s that Anet didn’t include standard events. But I see that not a something new, but as a design decision anyone could have made and didn’t have the nerve too.

Anet showed, to me anyway, courage in making that choice. If there are two bottles in the fridge and everyone drinks coke and I drink the pepsi am I being innovative?

I think you’re stretching the word to cover more than I said or meant. And no one would know what I meant better than I did. You certainly don’t.

KarlaGrey.5903:

‘innovate’
Make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products.

But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games

=GW2 arguably did something different in comparison to other games, that automatically translates to innovating – even more so for you, since you’re considering ‘dynamic events’ to be a completely new, or ‘fresh’ concept that separated GW2 from other mmos.

Arguing semantics again.
/yawn

I’m not arguing semantics. I’m saying I don’t think I used the word innovative, which you’ve attributed to me.

If you insist on saying things I’m not saying I’m going to insist on setting the record straight.

And if you’re bored by the argument you can always stop arguing.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Indeed you are.
My reference to those 3 games and rl sports tried to demonstrate you do not and should not sacrifice depth for accessibility, and it’s complimented nicely by phys’ post.

The game is playing it safe (unlike you’re claiming, it is far from innovative), and it had sacrificed a lot for that. Some seem to be ok with that, however.

I’m not sure I used the word innovative anywhere. I said they had a vision and that’s shown by the specific selection of features they’ve chosen to include. And I maintain that that’s true.

KarlaGrey.5903:

No one wishes to discuss build diversity here, and no one is calling you out on that. I just pointed out how you’re hopping from one topic to another as soon as you run out of replies for the previous issue at hand.

Is Starcraft 2 welcoming to new players? No.
Are basketball or tennis welcoming to new and possibly out-of-shape beginners? No. Did they simplify the rules to make them ‘more accessible’? Is the audience and the number of players smaller because of that? Unlikely. GW was ambitious as well as innovative, and it is a real pity its heydays were way ahead of their time – I wonder how things would look like, had it become big in the age of streaming. GW2 on the other hand is there just to milk you for gems, pretending it’s something different to the alternatives. While it is as ambitious as it might have hoped for at the start (hello manifesto), it has adopted a the most practical approach from a business point of view.

And you say that I’m jumping from topic to topic. lol

If you think that this game is only about milking the public for gems, there’s not much else to say.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

KarlaGrey.5903:

The fact the game is easier to play because of those features and has lost a lot of depth in the process isn’t a red herring. It’s a fact. It just so happens that pvp is affected more (in general, not just this supposed ‘hard-core playerbase’), but it also has consequences for the pve, which I surely listed above.

Making the game accessible should not equal dumbing it down. Sacrificing depth at the expense of making it more available is what mediocre games do (and unlike I, you seem to consider GW2 more than that). It’s what your typical mmo does to gain as big a playerbase as possible. But invoking the argument of ‘the causal’ to dumb the game down is an insult to said playerbase – bad players will be bad even in a game that has been dumbed down, while the rest (including casuals) which could have played the game even if it had more depth will be left with less means to make a difference.
And yet you call such a thing a plus. Man I don’t even….

Depth means different things to different people. Build diversity has certainly suffered, that much is true.

But that build diversity from Guild Wars 1 you cherish so much came with with a whole host of problems that have been acknowledged elsewhere. You simple prefer those problems. I prefer these problems.

Depth can be measured and dictionary definitions cannot be twisted to suit your particular version of reality. If you cannot go beyond those basic notions, you should honestly stop replying, because you’re just hopping from one topic to another (currently at build diversity, from dynamic events via innovation) as soon as you run out of reply material.

I’m sorry, but you don’t get to choose whether I reply or not. I’ve said straight out, in other threads as well, the Guild Wars 1 had more build diversity. I’ve also said Guild Wars 2 needs more build diversity. That’s a weakness in the game. I believe this 100%. I’ve said so in the past, even recently.

But it doesn’t change the fact that the complexity of Guild Wars 1 was both its biggest strength and its biggest weakness. It was too hard to balance (as per Anet) and it wasn’t welcoming to new players at all, which is why it developed such a small, hard core community.

It’s great that that happened, but this game is larger and more ambitious. The staff is bigger. It requires a bigger audience.

I’m not sure how you’re going to get that without simplifying stuff.

KarlaGrey.5903:

The fact the game is easier to play because of those features and has lost a lot of depth in the process isn’t a red herring. It’s a fact. It just so happens that pvp is affected more (in general, not just this supposed ‘hard-core playerbase’), but it also has consequences for the pve, which I surely listed above.

Making the game accessible should not equal dumbing it down. Sacrificing depth at the expense of making it more available is what mediocre games do (and unlike I, you seem to consider GW2 more than that). It’s what your typical mmo does to gain as big a playerbase as possible. But invoking the argument of ‘the causal’ to dumb the game down is an insult to said playerbase – bad players will be bad even in a game that has been dumbed down, while the rest (including casuals) which could have played the game even if it had more depth will be left with less means to make a difference.
And yet you call such a thing a plus. Man I don’t even….

Depth means different things to different people. Build diversity has certainly suffered, that much is true.

But that build diversity from Guild Wars 1 you cherish so much came with with a whole host of problems that have been acknowledged elsewhere. You simple prefer those problems. I prefer these problems.

KarlaGrey.5903:

nexxe.7081:

You people have to be realistic here. The tech we have now, is very limiting as to what it could do. I’m mostly talking about hardware, and databases, etc. Scripted events is the best we have, no matter what game it is. Until we get A.I. that can rationally think, and hardware that can handle all the processing, there’s really no point hoping for something that won’t be here in the near future. Some of you are expecting a perpetual changing environment, which is unrealistic. I could’ve typed this out better, but i’m tired. lol.

That would indeed be the only truly dynamic kind of events, correct. But just because the tech isn’t there yet does not warrant pretending apples are oranges.

Vayne.8563:

snip

You’re mistaking opinions with definitions (of ‘dynamic’).
Not only that, I listed perfectly valid arguments against some features you seem to love – given how this game has nothing going for it pvp-wise, keeping them won’t really do much harm at this point, however, changing them for the better could still be seen as a significant QoL. After all, features aimed towards the masses – ‘dynamic’ events, the downstate, moving while casting/attacking – merely dumbed the game down to make it ‘more accessible’.

Dynamic events I like. The downstate I like. Moving while casting, I like. Words like “dumbed down” are just red herrings here.

There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with any of that stuff. Now, hard core PvPers might not love the downed state, that much is true. I’m sure they’re a pretty small percentage of the player base, and I don’t think decisions should be made around them.

I don’t see anything wrong with making a game for the rest of the world. It’s nice that people want their hard core, competitive stuff. Most MMOs cater to that to one degree or another.

Making a game that’s more accessible (which you call dumbing down to make that sound bad) is not a bad thing. It’s a good thing.

It’s not going to be a game for everyone. And that’s okay too.

Yargesh.4965:

Vayne.8563:

Yargesh.4965:

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Who me?

You, them. You just enable each other.

I’m not talking to them. The funny bit is, it’s not them that need to hear this. It’s other people.

A couple of days ago there was a thread on these forums where some guy demanded that Anet removed the megaserver. He made a petition. He was enraged by the complaints he saw on the forums. After he made his post, most people in the thread, practically all, came out in favor of the megaserver. It was like 8-2 before the thread got deleted. That guy read the thread about the megaserver complaints, got angry and posted. Then people messaged him and explained to him the value and he deleted his post. He posted that just before the thread was deleted.

The point is, most people who read forums don’t post in forums and many of them read casually. By posting what I post, I’m not trying to change Karla’s mind. I wouldn’t even begin to attempt it.

All I’m doing it showing a counterpoint to stuff I consider to be unfairly expressed (which I think it my right to do).

Do I get tired of it? Sure I do. And sometimes I take a break from it. But I think people need to see that the negative, which is far more prevalent on these forums, is not the only point of view.

And I do periodically get forum mail from lurkers who thank me for doing what I do.

Yargesh.4965:

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Who me?

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Some of the features you’re again heralding as innovations are actually a step backward.
- The ability to rez each other has serious implications for pvp, as it can trivialize good play, especially in an outnumbered situation (down one guy, the other can just rez him up indefinitely). It also trivializes pve to a point, but that’s less of an issue.
- Gear progression – well, I cant say it’s centered on ascended (which is, hands down, still a BiS set to obtain compared to the alternatives), because it’s more focused on the gem store.
- Downlevelling is again a double-edged sword – sometimes you WANT to be able to steamroll lower lvl content for this or that random item, or to quickly move forward with someone else.
Another issue with scaling is that not everyone who came close enough to be counted in might contribute, so you’re in essence scaling the event for the same amount of people, making it needlessly more difficult.
- Move and cast while walking again have serious implications for pvp, because they take away an element of skill and tactical judgement – is it safe to stop and cast a spell? Am I positioned right to escape a spike? Is it wise to pressure a target right now as a warrior?

I suppose you must’ve been traumatized by other mmos, and it is true many are nothing but a series of facepalming, but you seem to welcome even things that aren’t really a good thing, or aren’t ONLY a good thing.

Vayne.8563:

But Anet DID have a vision for this game. A living world. A world that changed over time. A cooperative PvE experience instead of a competitive one.

snip

Vayne.8563:

There’s no other MMO that gives me that. Not one…except this one.

Why does it seem like you’re playing a game of make-believe though.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not a blind fan boy.

rite

Vayne.8563:

You can post a single feature from a single game all day long. But that game had static quests.

And so does this one.

Vayne.8563:

But this game combines a lot of features from other games that have never all been in the same game at the same time before.

I’m glad you at least admit the game brings nothing new to the table. Unfortunately, some things would have been better off staying in other games, while the original game ought receiving FAR more credit, as it made it possible to get where they are now.

Vayne.8563:

I’m calling a spade a spade too. I’ve given you a specific example from Rift of how dynamic events in that game, because they co-existed with static quests, ruined the game for me. That is to say, they dynamic events weren’t a main course, they were a side show. The open world didn’t center on them. Nor did it center on them in any other game.

And I’ve also given you a definition of what dynamic is. Just because such quest types ruined the game for you there, doesn’t mean they suddenly became a whole different thing here. Those two things have no relation to each other. Dynamic is dynamic, static is static. Just because they’re ‘the main course’ on GW2, they didn’t suddenly become more dynamic, just like the sun will still rise in the same manner at the same time whether it is observed it from Earth or from Venus. One could actually argue that centering the game around such events actually has more downsides than upsides – from zerging and the associated lagging to lack of immersion, as there are countless other players mashing 1111 to get their share of the loot, which is likely to be mediocre anyway.
However increasing the difficulty of such events can again pose an issue, because forcing a greater level of coordination from complete strangers of varying skill levels sounds like a recipe for disaster.

See there you go again. Terms like a step backwards. No. A step backwards FOR YOU. For how you want to play.

These are a step forward for me and how I want to play. That’s exactly my point.

For your play style and what you want to do, this game isn’t that good. For my play style, this game is better.

And neither of us are alone in our play styles. But the way you come off talking about the game, you try to make it sound like the things you’re saying are factual, when they’re just your opinion.

And you know, your opinion is valid. But you express it in a combative way and then wonder why people argue with you. Like when you say stuff like Anet didn’t have a vision for this game. I don’t agree. And you can’t know.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I and Teofa clearly defined what dynamic events are, yet you are still heralding them as ‘something done right’ in comparison to other games. Thing is, you never had an argument to start with, because the events are as static as any other quest, yet here you are, defending oranges believing they’re apples.

Our arguments aren’t unfair. We’re simply call a spade a spade.

As mentioned earlier, the sun rising and setting must be the definition of dynamic according to that logic then.

I’m calling a spade a spade too. I’ve given you a specific example from Rift of how dynamic events in that game, because they co-existed with static quests, ruined the game for me. That is to say, they dynamic events weren’t a main course, they were a side show. The open world didn’t center on them. Nor did it center on them in any other game.

If you choose to see this as not a difference, you can go right ahead believing that. I played Rift before Guild Wars 2 and left it because the dynamic events in Rift were a joke in comparison. A side show, not a focus.

That makes a huge different. Sorry you don’t see that but it doesn’t change the fact that it does.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

GW2 “expanded” the dynamic event concept to replace most traditional questing. Didn’t invent it. Didn’t much change the “I swung a sword” thing.

Another point, for me, the determination to not have traditional quest types narrowed what could be offered. We have huge and well done City zones, with no reason to explore them, save curiosity. A few fetch and deliver quests in them would not hurt.

Other times, a fetch and deliver works better to direct players to Lore content or story elements. They did a “bit” of this for LS, not much though. Delivery quests could have been used to direct players to gameplay elements as well.

More options are always good, from my perpective. I feel Anet has ignored a lot of features/options simply to hype “we are innovative”.

/shrug.

There is a one thing that so many people seem to forget, over and over again. A game is not a collection of single features, but it’s a combination of features. Like everyone uses the same words to write stories, but all stories are different. It’s the combination of features that make this game unique.

For example, dynamic events, without traditional questing. In your cut and paste paragraph, you pointed out that other events scaled and the you couldn’t kill steal in them. Everyone got credit. But how many games have had dynamic events without the ability to kill steal anywhere? In how many of those games did they have mining nodes that no one could steal? In how many of those games did they have the ability of people to rez each other without using a skill slot…anyone to rez? In how many of those games did they have a game that didn’t center on raids and gear progression. In how many of those games does downleveling exist? In how many of those games allow you to move and cast at the same time.

See it’s not one thing that makes this game unique. But Anet DID have a vision for this game. A living world. A world that changed over time. A cooperative PvE experience instead of a competitive one.

There’s no other MMO that gives me that. Not one…except this one.

It might not be your thing and that’s fair enough. But the selection of individual features this game gives me in combination fits my personal play style far better than WoW, Lotro, DDO, SWToR, Aion, Runes of Magic, Perfect World, Eve Online, and others that I’ve tried.

I’m not a blind fan boy. I see issues with this game. But they’re probably not the same issues you see, and they certainly don’t take away from everything else this game has provided for me and players like me.

You can post a single feature from a single game all day long. But that game had static quests. It had gear grind up the kitten. It had kill stealing and node stealing.

So the small percentage of public quests it had compared to static ones…doesn’t really do much for me. From my point of view, for my play style, that game sucked.

And you know, if you liked it, that’s great, because there are different people who play games differently. That’s fine. But this game combines a lot of features from other games that have never all been in the same game at the same time before.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

KarlaGrey.5903:

“But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games.”

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

A greatest advancement is not the same as saying heralded. You need actually apply the language I used, instead of your interpretation of it because you think I see no wrong in this game.

A greatest advancement doesn’t have to be a great advancement. It has to be an advancement that is superior to other advancements. For example, a person’s greatest accomplishment in life might be to own a soda machine. That doesn’t make the accomplishment great. It’s only great compared to the other stuff that was done in that life.

Guild Wars 2, and I’ve said this before, is evolutionary, not revolutionary. It’s a half-step forward. But compared to what the rest of the industry has been doing for the last eight years, it might as well be revolutionary. It’s greatest advancement is relative. As others have noted, it’s the best thing out there right now, because most other stuff is crap. That doesn’t make Guild Wars 2 crap, but it certainly allows it to have greater advancements than its competitors. I hope that clears it up for you.

I can perfectly accept that you personally don’t see the game as I do. I never made fun of you for not seeing the game as I do. I don’t agree with many of your points. I think you exaagerate to make points (as what you did with this post right here and my words).

But when you go and start taking down about people who think this is a great game, it’s pretty uncool from my perspective.

What you say would hold true, if you hadn’t added the part about ‘like most games’. By doing so, you automatically put GW2 on a pedestal compared to other mmos who are out atm. If I were to rephrase that part, it’d be something among the lines of “unlike most games, GW2 did it right by ‘innovating’ with dynamic events”, which is, however, false to start with because said events are actually static, as explained in my previous posts.

Now, refer to

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

again, and stop beating about the bush with the argument of semantics. It’s your biggest give-away that you have ran out of arguments.

I haven’t ran out of arguments. Everyone says, even people who agree with you, that this game is the best of a sorry lot. When you’re talking about what other games do wrong and this game does right, it’s a long list. Which doesn’t mean this game doesn’t do anything wrong. But heralding implies that I’m coming out here cold and, without prompting, I’m talking up the game. Heralding NEVER applies to defending the game from attacks that are completely unreasonable in my opinion.

If you want to call defending a point I hold to be true with heralding, then go right ahead. But you’d be wrong. I’m responding to what I see are unfair comments. That’s not my definition of heralding, nor is it any definition of heralding I’ve ever seen.

Yep the particle spam is one of the major flaws in the game. It makes it hard to see tells, which makes it hard to dodge.

Cameirus.8407:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

The game didn’t start out this way. I’ve been playing since BWE1 and I love this game, but it’s turning into a clock race, where everything is on a timer, including a friggin sand storm!

Sandstorm was something i was really looking forward to in LS2, but by turning it into a timed event, it’s taken a shine off it for me. A sandstorm should occur randomly, not at some predetermined time, as it is now and when it comes on, everyone mindlessly race to find those chests like there’s no tomorrow.

This goes for just about everything in the game, the timed aspect jumps, the timed bosses u have to kill within certain time, the timed events in general and it just goes on.
I can understand some things have to be timed but a sandstorm! Seriously, take the clock away!

pretty much.

So much for a living dynamic world, its all timer based and boss rotations now a days.

The whole, on a schedule thing even relates to weapon sets, as those are limited time (dont try to mention weapon ticket scraps unless you want a slap! :P)…

Game is more grindy than any other I can think of. And thats totally not what it was supposed to be.

The schedule of the boss thing isn’t in game though, it’s out of game. If you want to be immersed, don’t look at the schedule. That’s on you.

It’s like the wiki. It’s always there, but I don’t use it to find out where I need to go.

I just have such a problem with elves and dwarves. Sylvari as it is are very “elf-like” but at least they’re not actually elves. But dwarves…everyone has dwarves. It’s just too overdone. For the same reason I wouldn’t want vampires.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Vayne.8563:

Tiami says in the story (minor minor spoiler) that she could improve waypoints so that they can be built without attracting the vines. So I wouldn’t worry just yet.

Lol, wrong thread?

Yep, it’s getting late I deleted it.

Tiami says in the story (minor minor spoiler) that she could improve waypoints so that they can be built without attracting the vines. So I wouldn’t worry just yet.

KarlaGrey.5903:

“But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games.”

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

A greatest advancement is not the same as saying heralded. You need actually apply the language I used, instead of your interpretation of it because you think I see no wrong in this game.

A greatest advancement doesn’t have to be a great advancement. It has to be an advancement that is superior to other advancements. For example, a person’s greatest accomplishment in life might be to own a soda machine. That doesn’t make the accomplishment great. It’s only great compared to the other stuff that was done in that life.

Guild Wars 2, and I’ve said this before, is evolutionary, not revolutionary. It’s a half-step forward. But compared to what the rest of the industry has been doing for the last eight years, it might as well be revolutionary. It’s greatest advancement is relative. As others have noted, it’s the best thing out there right now, because most other stuff is crap. That doesn’t make Guild Wars 2 crap, but it certainly allows it to have greater advancements than its competitors. I hope that clears it up for you.

I can perfectly accept that you personally don’t see the game as I do. I never made fun of you for not seeing the game as I do. I don’t agree with many of your points. I think you exaagerate to make points (as what you did with this post right here and my words).

But when you go and start taking down about people who think this is a great game, it’s pretty uncool from my perspective.

I’m part of a gaming family too but only two of us play Guild Wars 2 now.

KarlaGrey.5903:

‘Dynamic’
continuously moving or changing
characterized by constant change, activity, or progress

Dynamic events are in essence static predetermined quests or chains of quests that occur at regular intervals. Like the sun rising and setting.

The change to questing was ok (although I believe a mix of the usual and the new would be best), but the variety in questing is abysmal, which makes questing a terribly boring and repetitive task to undertake. Pity they forgot to ‘innovate’ when it comes to quest content. So no, they did not abandon traditional questing content wise – they’re the usual WoW-styled fetch-this kill-that run-there kind of quests – they just approached it from a different angle (spared you the extra walk back to the quest npc).

Yet the fans herald it as the alpha and omega of game innovation. Oh my.

No one heralded it as the alpha and omega as game innovation. I did say it was a step forward. What made it a step forward was forgoing the standard quest system, which Trion didn’t have the bottle to do with Rift.

You don’t like the game, other people do, so you belittle them for liking it. Sorry but that’s not how it works. You’re free not to like the game, but I’m sure many who like it are just as smart and just as well rounded as you are.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that different people can have different opinions, and just really enjoy it? Why is it even an issue for you?

That’s really good. Saw it on reddit, but I seldom repost stuff unless I have permission. Great stuff.

KarlaGrey.5903:

@Vayne, by your definition (i.e. invoking the argument of scaling) the entire game can be called dynamic then. ‘Dynamic Wars’, anyone?

Dynamic events are just automated quests or chains of quests, but obviously no one would call them like that as it’d kill all the ‘sparkle’. However, saying they’re anything beyond that that is just fanboyism.
They’re cool the first time you participate in them, ok the 2nd time, and just ‘get me out of here’ the n-th time.

At Teofa, +1

This game still did one thing no other game has done (to my knowledge) to date. Read my response above because I’m not typing it twice.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Look saying dynamic events aren’t dynamic is false, only from this point of view. They scale dynamically. As people leave they get weaker. As people come they get stronger. That makes them dynamic.

Things get named all the time. And dynamic events, because they are events that scale dynamically are aptly named.

Or have a different name. It isn’t a staggeringly new concept.

“A public quest progresses through several stages as it continuously runs. They are dynamic, meaning that the content will scale up or down in difficulty depending on how many players are actively participating in the PQ and whether the stages were successes or failures. The mobs in PQs are non-contested. This means that they cannot be locked, that you cannot kill steal and that you can jump in and assist an ungrouped player with a mob they’re working on”

http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Public_Quests_%28EQ2%29

Did public quests chain? Did they have different pass/fail situations? I can think of at least one dynamic event (and I’m sure there are more) that lead to different events if you beat them and a completely different event if you fail. I"m not sure public quests did that.

Regardless, different event types are known in different games differently. A warrior in one game is a fighter in another. I think public quests is a terrible name. Did everyone have to take the quest? Did it spawn based on certain criteria.

What I remember from early PQ events in Warhammer was that they were scheduled and you showed up on schedule. Did the events affect each other?

In Guild Wars 2, I was doing an escort and the escort stopped. I thought it was a bug. I couldn’t get the guy to move. I go down the road a bit and I realize there’s another event going on there, and the bridge is out. The event can’t continue until that event is done. That’s pretty dynamic.

But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games. That is to say, a lot of the problems with DEs in Rift came from having quests in the first place.

When I stared playing Rift in beta 4, events were left in place until the players beat them. But players complained about this. Because they wanted to cash in their regular ordinary quests at the quest hub, and it wasn’t available to them. So Trion changed the game so that if no one bothered with it the event would just evaporate.

You can take all the pages you want from all the wikis you want and post them here, but Anet took a big step forward by abandoning the traditional questing model in favor of dynamic events. You may not like what Anet has done, but no one else has come close to doing something similar. It’s why I’m here.

Look saying dynamic events aren’t dynamic is false, only from this point of view. They scale dynamically. As people leave they get weaker. As people come they get stronger. That makes them dynamic.

But aside from that we need to call them something other than just quests, because they’re not like quests from traditional games. So they named them dynamic events. Not every name for every thing has to be literal anyway.

I mean I don’t think that when I get on a non-stop flight, the flight isn’t going to stop. I know it’ll stop at some point…hopefully at my destination. A non-stop flight would go forever.

Things get named all the time. And dynamic events, because they are events that scale dynamically are aptly named.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Galen Grey.4709:

As for recycled innovation again similar story, its like people saying dynamic events existed already in rift or Living story is not something new. If you want to see a pattern you’re going to see a pattern. Nothing can ever be so unique as to not resemble anything that came before its just not possible.

Firstly, the ‘dynamic’ part of the events is merely about periodic repetitions of one and the same thing on one and the same spot. Over and over again. By that definition, the sun rising and setting must be the epitome of dynamic irl. Dynamic events are nothing new because they are merely automated quests on a repeat button. If you wanna call that innovation, be my guest.

Moreover, saying nothing can be truly unique does not an argument make – it does not make it fine that things are repetitive and recycled, or that they have such an impact.

Except that some events have different pass fails to them that trigger other events. Dawn and dusk don’t have that.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Vayne.8563:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

You guys are missing my point, why put a sandstorm as an event in the first place? Why wasn’t it made to be a weather feature of the area, that occurred randomly and surprised you, rather than oh, the sandstorm’s gonna hit in 5 minutes, just like it does every hour of the day!

But i’m not talking just about sandstorm, it’s everything. Everything is becoming a clock race in gw2. It’s totally breaking my immersion in the game. The randomness of anything is gone it seems.

It’s a game. Lots of things in games don’t make sense. Why can I rez everyone except characters who die dramatically in the PS? Why do I heal super fast as soon as I leave combat. If you’re waiting for stuff in games to make logical sense. then I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s not the same sandstorm. The wind picks up periodically and it blows uncovering chests.

Have you ever done a dungeon in the game? When you go into the dungeon again, why does it have the same creatures and bosses you’ve already killed. Just think of it like a dungeon. Every periodically it’s like starting the dungeon again, giving you a chance to reach tier 5.

I get what you’re saying, i guess i was hoping for something more and when it wasn’t what i thought it would be, it left me disappointed, that’s all.

It’s quite challenging and exciting to be part of getting Tier 5. I do understand your problem with it, but I think that where it is is pretty kitten ed entertaining.

You have to remember a lot of people only can play for an hour or two a night, so they have to find a way to allow people to experience stuff.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I never used Ursan. Not even sure what it was. If PI is Pain Inverter, I did use that, but not on my Mesmer.

Just saying… everyone didn’t do what maybe the majority did. =)

Did you spend a lot of time trying to get into DOA or UW groups though?

Why? I did both with hero/merc groups and didn’t “ping” a build to anyone.

I assume this was after the 7 hero upgrade. I played before that, when you could only have three heroes. I don’t believe most people could have beat DOA with 3 heroes.

I will not be drawn into another manifesto debate…I will not be drawn into another manifesto debate.

If I keep saying it, it might come true. lol

KarlaGrey.5903:

I do like posts that talk of Anet as if it were an indie game company, together with the associated ’they’re still learning’ patting on the back, and all that in a supposedly AAA+ title.
You people…. are every company’s dream customer. Kiu

Actually this is the most telling thing you said.

Professional artists of all kinds are always experimenting, always learning. This game is made by artists. If you’re not growing and learning, you’re not being creative. This isn’t some driving game, where you make a track, throw some cars on it and maybe figure out a few power ups.

The very idea that a AAA game company that takes chances and tries new things should get it right the first time is amazing to me. Maybe if they were making a pacman clone it wouldn’t be that way, but when a company goes into unchartered territory, almost by definition, they have to make it up as they go along.

LMAO OP! Excellent stuff.

Once there was a guy who ran past me without rezzing to a chest, and then left. A later found the same guy dead. I rezzed him to 90% and walked away. lol