I can deny that people are leaving the game over it or at least, I can deny that mroe people aren’t leaving than are coming back. I play the game and it’s packed. My guild is busy. We’ve broken a hundred members for the first time without doing any recruiting at all.
The game is doing fine. SOME players wont’ like the game and those players will leave. This is no different than ANY MMO.
You claim I have no evidence…where is yours?
My points are good, even if you don’t agree with them. Leaving everything in game splits the playerbase more than it needs to be split and creates a different kind of pressure that some people would find very hard to deal with.
Either the game is doing fine (hey, it’s packed!) and more people are coming back or the game is in a state in which dividing the playerbase is a problem (see: ‘ghost town’), which is only a problem if there aren’t enough players to go around. You can’t have it both ways. Which is it?
Actually I can have it both ways. I’m not even sure why you can’t understand this problem.
WoW is the most successful MMO of all time, and it has dead zones and dungeons that don’t get done and wasted content out the kitten .
Do you think Guild Wars 2 has more players than WoW? I don’t. The combination of the playerbase being divided into Europe and the rest of the world, combined with the servers being separated combined with a casual player base that doesn’t ncessarily play every day and people taking time off and coming back…spread over 26 large zones…I’m really not sure what you expect.
If the most successful MMO of all time can have people complaining about empty zones, then I don’t see why Guild Wars 2, with far fewer players wouldn’t have something similar.
When I say EVERY MMO needs strategy to focus people I mean EVERY MMO. This doesn’t mean an MMO is going well and it doesn’t mean an MMO is doing badly. It means that an MMO needs strategies because the worlds are huge and a scattered player base ends up making the world feel empty.
You need 5 achievements to get your daily. Anet provides multiple choices. That’s not a chore.
As you might (not?) have noticed, this thread is about achievement points, this means you have 15 achievements to complete each day as daily chores. It’s not about the 5 dailies to get your laurels.
And you might not have noticed, but no one said you had to get every single point every single day. That’s called a CHOICE. It’s not an obligation. People get far more points from doing the living story than doing every daily every day.
If you CHOOSE to do every daily every day, you’ll probably get some chests a bit faster. what do you get, an extra 5 points a day? 150 points a month? And for that you’re willing to do something you think of as a chore?
I think you should reassess the way you play games.
You seem to think everyone fghts the Claw of Jormag all the time. I don’t.
I’m only listing this specific event as an example of what I’ve observed. I only ever do this event once, as well. But every time I do, without fail, the farmers are there to draw things out with an insatiable thirst for loot.
But that’s true in any game. Every game has farmers. Anet gave them places to congregate and they do. What’s wrong with that?
Man, I can see it now! Get your drops in Super Mario Bros! Shadow Broker’s up in ten minutes! I’m not expecting single-player quality here, but for a company that says they want to innovate — where is it? People are doing the same thing they would be doing in a different MMORPG and that’s getting drops. ArenaNet is on to something with these Living Stories and I hope we get something more than just a few sentences out of Ellen Kiel and then move back to the grinding. Because at the moment, role playing is hard in this game. No one cares about the events. No one seems to care that it’s a dragon attacking; I’m not even sure the event can fail.
You’re still only talking about a handful of events out of a whole game.
You really think that mini-games and a JP are on par with new dungeons and skins?
Of course not. I clearly think that mini-games and JPs are SUPERIOR to dungeons.
I say that only half in jest. There are a lot of people who love running dungeons. There are a lot of people who won’t TOUCH a dungeon. Do you know how many people are in each camp? I bet you think most MMO players love instances, but in my experience it’s not completely true.
Most MMOs PUSH dungeons and so people DO dungeons, but there are plenty of people that, for example, solo MMOs…more than you’d believe? How do I know? Because game devs talk about them. They make content for them. Scott Hartsman from Rift said the solo population of a game can only be ignored at risk to a game.
Yes, I think the importance of dungeons in a game is greatly over-estimated by those who enjoy them.
I hate this game. Worst game I’ve ever played.
I knew I couldn’t say that and keep a straight face. lol
I understand why people don’t like it. It’s very different from everything else out there. People have become used to certain standards and most people don’t like change.
I, on the other hand, don’t like how it is elsewhere, so I’m thrilled with the change.
I was under the impression that the drinking game was a permanent addition to Guild Wars 2. It’s not going anywhere.
Vayne, I’m not saying that GW2 is going to die or is dying. I’m just stating that there is a dilemma that is being dealt with on their end. Most players don’t realize that and can’t see past the “I’m not having fun, so nobody is!”
And yes, throwing the word most is a reasonable word when most players have less than 2k AP.
I’m not seeing the dilemna. Do you expect 5 million regular players? I don’t. Half a million players is plenty to start. It really is.
It doesn’t matter what most players think or don’t think because the game isn’t going to appeal to everyone.
But if Anet changes the game to make it more like other games and people like me leave, then the game will have problems. Why? Because every game that comes out is like the other games. Anet won’t be able to compete against that. They’re competing, they have the players they have BECAUSE Guild Wars 2 is different.
Take the differences away and why not go play any of the other 50 formula MMOs?
The OP suggests that too much temporary content can only be bad for the game. I agree. However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.
But aren’t we supposed to be looking at the “Long term”? That’s the point, is it not?
What’s conflicting about you is that:
You agree that too much temp content is bad, but you’re opposed to constant perm content, stating it would being overwhelming…but the alternative is having continual temp content…which would leave us with a string of temp content…which you disagree with.I understand you can be on the fence about it, but all your posts seem to be focusing on how constant temp content is a good thing, and not stating a kind of compromise between the two.
No, I’m not on the fence. I’m all for caution with putting in permanent content. I love the idea of certain dungeons ending up as fractals for example. But we ARE getting permanent content. Something with every single upgrade.
The jumping puzzle last time, the drinking game this time, the moa racing, the queen karka and other events…these are all permanent. More permament stuff is coming. That will be 26 new additions a year, even if we only get one per event…but I’m sure we’ll get more as time goes on.
Basically I see permanent content going into the game, and I’m not thinking we have too much temporary because of it.
I don’t fence sit. I just don’t see the problem.
I don’t find them chores at all. Most of them on most days get done incidentally.
Indeed, since about every other day you incidentally do things like Keg brawl steals, or 40 kills in Ascalon while doing 4 events in Maguuma.
Things like personal story completer are especially commonplace once you are done with Zhaitan. Not to mention fractals (of which nowadays some people go and complete ONE level 1 fractal, just to get the achievement) or dungeons (both explorer and story mode). And daily WvW achievements are quite dependent on your server’s success if you don’t want to be on hours in WvW. Oh, btw, remember your daily crab tossing? And last but nor least is the common costume brawl for all those people who did not purchase the mad king gem outfit.I doubt it can get much “chorier”…
You need 5 achievements to get your daily. Anet provides multiple choices. That’s not a chore.
If you dont’ play keg brawl…don’t play keg brawl. This is ludicrous to bring it up. I ENJOY keg brawl and always make that one of my achievements when it pops up. I don’t do the WvW achievements because I don’t generally enjoy that.
Take today’s achievements…of which you need 5…
Daily champion slayer…you need to slay 1 champion. That’s it. If you’re doing the new content, there are champions to slay everywhere. If you’re doing a dungeon, you’ll likely slay one. Just about every zone has champions.
Ambient killer…everywhere you go in the world there are ambient creatures everywhere…rats, rabbits, mosquitos, spark flies. As I’m running around I hit a couple of creatures here and there.
Leveler…how hard is it to level a character in this game. If you play, you get a level and yes, even getting a level on an 80 counts.
Gatherer….there’s gathering to be done all over the place. Unless you’re only doing dungeons and fractals and nothing else…even WvW has stuff to gather….pretty much everywhere.
Karma spender..easy as pie. Even if you’re not going for mystic clovers, take 850 karma, take a quick trip to any one of the karma vendors that sell alochol for karma and done.
Daily kills..you have to kill stuff today. Kill stuff…in an MMO? How much simpler could you get?
Daily events…yes it’s easy to get events in these games. Even some dungeons have events in them and WvW just about everything counts as an event.
Everything else today is a WvW daily (for those who don’t want to PvP). It’s easy for them to get gatherer and killer, plus 3 of their own things.
Anyone who thinks these are chores is just making excuses. And no, I don’t feel I have to do every daily every day (but I do like to get five of them).
And if you just SPvP, you’ll easily get the SPvP daily just by playing.
However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.
The thing is, it’s your subjective opinion, not a objective statement. Only your subjective opinion, nothing more. I toled you that before in another topic.
Why are you arguing with people, 100 hundred times in a day? I don’t get it. You don’t have facts, all you have is your own, subjective opinion, just like the others.
I’m not agree with your opinion. I think we have too much temporarily content. If you think it’s not, fine, but your opinion doesn’t change that fact, that GW2 has too much temporarily content.
Right I’m disagreeing with someone’s opinion, not stating something as fact. That’s how opinions work. Someone expresses an opinion and you disagree with that opinion.
Disagreeing with someone’s opinion doesn’t make it a statement of fact. In fact, the REASON I’m disagreeing it so show an alternate opinion.
At this point, let’s call them what people treat them as.
Chores.
Do your dailies!
I don’t find them chores at all. Most of them on most days get done incidentally.
Then focus on living world content? or better yet, don’t make things up(like Southsun) but rather have it evolve around the main story.
Still wondering why they made a whole island appear into the middle of nowhere when there was the Ring of Fire Islands nearby begging to be revisited .
I’m pretty sure they have other plans for those islands.
The problem is they’re called achievements. And that word already has a definition. Most achievements aren’t achievements at all.
If they were called something else, it would be a lot better.
Goals
Plateaus
Too bad Way points are already in the game lol
Steps
Things To Do
People pick on the word achievement, but it’s just a word. They’re not meant to be achievements in the English language sense of the word.
Anet doesn’t want you to use a third party website. I find that highly irrelevant though. The thing is there’s nothing against the rules using it and it solves problems.
You put together a group yourself, doing the dungeon your way and you’d probably get a lot of responses.
Vayne, I think your attempt to discredit lol is disingenuous. You know what he means. It’s why we have sites like gw2stuff and massive lagfest events that test the stability of the servers. Of the 1500 events, there are roughly 1% that are frequented by, from my two world completion travels, likely 80-90% of active players at any moment.
It’s ridiculous to see large groups just standing at these events… It used to be a social environment, but now, very few people even have conversations beyond meow meow meow where is messy shadow b why is he late ? Meanwhile, a couple of well meaning souls, who still care to complete the pre events, make sure the lazy entitled masses get their Rares.
This is what we get from guaranteed rare chests at these events and literally meow all at everywhere else.
I am working on my third legendary, at a meager 100g/week, but tonight I went on WvW because, well seeing the KA guild event in Iron Marches where there were 10-15 commander tags gave me a good picture of what is happening in PVE.
I’m not leaving the game, I’m not complaining .. I’m saying lol has a valid question.
For me, 32 years of gaming has taught me: no matter what anyone tries, all games are a grind. ANet’s idea of continuously updating content is the best approach I’ve seen. Perhaps what the game needs is to have ALL content by temporary.,.The Claw of Jormag just got killed? Guess what.. He’s DEAD. No repeats of the event.
If ANet can keep up with that type of update schedule, we may have our first truly grind-free game.
As it is, I see the base events in the same light as the storyline. They are a warmup to the living story.
Living story events are a grind? Yes! Do I think that it will always be that way? No! But, it will take time for the teams to ease players into a new way of thinking.
Me, personally, I want to have a high score. I have a lifetime of that built into me..these many achievements are our score. Humankind had evolved because of that competitive desire (not only, but a big part of). If that wasn’t the case, the USA would not be the leading country that it is (I am not American.)
Back to the question…
I don’t feel that ANet WANTS us to grind as much as we, regardless of what our conscious minds contradict, are conditioned in games and real life, to grind.. And it will take time to wean us out of that rut.
(Why do I write these on my iPad?? It takes just as long to correct)
I’m not being disingenuous at all. I really think you’re confusing your feelings about this with what the OP is actually asking. I answered what he asked, not what you said.
Yes, the meta events have been totally screwed by the current reward system. I knew it would happen as soon as Anet started giving better rewards. But then, the rewards before were completely unappealing and people were saying that they weren’t good enough which was also true. I’m not so sure there’s an easy answer to that.
But no, I wasn’t being disingenuous. If the OP meant what you said, it’s not what I got from his post.
You seem to think everyone fghts the Claw of Jormag all the time. I don’t.
I’m only listing this specific event as an example of what I’ve observed. I only ever do this event once, as well. But every time I do, without fail, the farmers are there to draw things out with an insatiable thirst for loot.
But that’s true in any game. Every game has farmers. Anet gave them places to congregate and they do. What’s wrong with that?
There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.
Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.
It’s not for the same reason.
Square wheels don’t serve any purpose. Living Story serves a purpose. Permanent content serves a purpose too. Anet has goals that work best with the LS instead of the traditional content patches.
Temporary content, such as has been provided by the Living Story, serves no purpose that could not be equally or better served by permanent content, which is what could have been and should have been provided with the Living Story.
Temporary content is, for anyone who happened to miss it, vaporware.
That’s your opinion. You are welcome to develop an MMO based on old principles and see if they are really better.
“That’s your opinion.” = “I can’t counter your argument.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “I can’t think of anything relevant to say.”In my opinion, of course.
“That’s your opinion.” = “Arena.net thinks otherwise.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “You are here to play Arena.net’s game, with Arena.net’s rules. The LS is part of their design plan.”And he did like the game but when Anet changed the rules he started to dislike the game, he finds that a pity for this game that has so much potential and where he already put a lot of time in.. But he knows if Anet continue like this he and many other people will stop playing so he it here to let Anet know there new rules or new way of thinking is bad.
Except that Anet actually has the metrics and based on those metrics, they’ve decided to move forward with this. Obviously they’re happy with the outcomes. If they weren’t they wouldn’t do this.
The game needed something and this is, according to Anet, the something it needed. If you’re looking for a different something, well, that’s sad, and all, and I’m not saying that sarcastically.
But to imply that Anet is losing more than it’s getting out of this is to say that you have more metrics than Anet and you know how many people are logging in.
I’m 100% convinced that if enough people were leaving over this, Anet would not be doing it.
I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. This WILL be effective, IN THE SHORT TERM. I can see Anet taking this route based off their metrics, but I can guarantee that it will hurt them more in the long run. By the time the realise their mistake it might be too late to rectify it. It WILL be a barrier to new players, and even if it’s only to SOME new players that is LESS new players then it would be otherwise.
The whole point of having no sub fee was so the game would be more accesable, Why take away that barrier if you’re just going to put another in it’s place?
But you don’t own a crystal ball and you have no idea if it will be good in the long term. You think, you believe, you suppose…that’s it. This is a conjecture of yours.
At any rate, think that Anet is doing longer term permanent content that they’ll filter into the mix with the Living Story. This is a stop gap measure, nothing more.
As time goes on, there will be more and more new content.
The OP suggests that too much temporary content can only be bad for the game. I agree. However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.
It’s where you set that marker that makes a difference.
No matter how many people are spamming LFG in LA, tons of people are using the external website. The stats are right on the site.
I agree a tool should be here already, but not because I’d use it. I get 90% of my groups from my guild.
But don’t underestimate the number of people using gw2lfg.com
Well said, Harbard.
I also signed up to play an MMORPG.
There’s a lot more I could add, but there have been many on this thread that have expressed the same sentiment. Harbard, thank you for your voice here, you echo my feelings and my guild’s feeling very well in your posts.
I feel for you…because genres evolve. What used to be an RPG is nothing like any MMO really. MMOs are TERRIBLE RPGs. I’m an RPG guy from a long time ago and this is the first mmoRPG I can play for any length of time.
The genre is evolving. Rift had some jumping. SWToR had some jumping and I suspect future games will have a lot more of it. Genres evolve all the time. If you don’t like the way it’s evolving, it will simply evolve without you.
How far will the game evolve if a-net continue to evolve along a path ( going by this post) a large % don’t want? will gw2 be another rift? a game that started great but is now laughed at.
Say your playing rift and most respond …Rift lol
EDIT: What is interesting is thou both the games you mention are fail.
And you think they failed because they had jumping? I think they failed because they had nothing to offer but gear grind. I know someone personally who loved Rift, took a break and couldn’t catch up with his guild after the update. He just couldn’t spend the time and got tired of playing alone even though he wanted to play with his guild. It had nothing to do with jumping.
SWToR didn’t fail because of jumping either. Nice try though.
Most games that fail, don’t fail because of “one” thing. They usually fail because players leave. And why they leave will vary depending on the type of player.
Although players leave games for reasons of their own, it is often it is an accumulation of things that build up and then the “last straw” happens. One thing to keep in mind though is that even minor irritants can contribute to this. It could be that there are a lot of little irritants that bug you but aren’t enough to drive you away. Then the “big” irritant rears its ugly head and adds to the cumulative total of irritants.
We all know players are motivated by different goals and annoyed by different things. We all know you can put us into categories by what motivates us to play, what we enjoy, and what we mildly dislike, and what absolutely irritates us to the max.
Whether a game keeps enough players to remain a healthy population or not depends on the enjoyment/irritant ratio for the different types of players.
Unfortunately, for most games when populations are very high and cash shops are raking in the money, there is a tendency to ignore the irritants and to a certain extent the motivations. Then if populations decline, suddenly there is an attitude change and more attention to the irritants that were previously trivialized. Usually it is at the “too little, too late” point.
I know that for a game to be fun, it needs a enough players for the world to be populated and all areas of the game (pve open world, dungeons, sPvP, WvW, etc) to be bustling with players. For that reason, I want the enjoyment/irritation to weight heavy on the enjoyment side as much as feasibly possible for all the different types of players.
This can be difficult because what makes it on my list as an enjoyment might make it to your list as an irritant.
This is completely true. I just pointed out the three of the newest MMOs have jumping type platforming of some type in them and I suspect all new ones from this point will have some of that. It’s the evolution of the genre.
And people who are attached to what was are bound to be disappointed.
There are people walking around saying how UO and EQ 1 were the greatest games of all time and those people, playing today’s MMOs are going to say these games fall flat. And for those people I’m sure they do.
But to say the MMOs I’m bringing up are considered failures (and I wouldn’t consider Rift a failure anyway since it’s still making money), implies that jumping puzzles had something to do with that.
It’s a red herring I wasn’t going to let sit there without pointing out how misleading it is.
Well, unless you like going for a legendary weapon or a cosmetic skin, there really is nothing in this game for you personally to do. Sorry about that.
If you want to get gear with better stats on it, you’re quite limited in this game and that’s how most of the game’s players want it. In fact, when ascended gear was introduced back in November, many of the long time Guild Wars 2 fans left because they didn’t want another tier of gear.
Guild Wars 1 never had another tier of gear past what it launched with. That’s what people expected of Guild Wars 2.
There’s a huge number of people who play this game who hope to never see a gear upgrade again.
This sums up the GW2 dilemma. If they make a change, they either please the long-time fans, or they please the masses. If they please the masses, they get more money and rejoice. If they please the long-time fans, they get recognition and rejoice.
It’s a lose-lose situation, to be completely honest.
I don’t know that I agree with this. I think that no matter what they do, the game is going to be relatively niche, but that’s not the same thing as saying lose/lose. Eve is niche and does quite well.
The problem is people STILL think the majority wants gear progression but no one really knows, because no one has asked.
People argue that gear based MMOs do fantastic…but that’s all there have been. And Guild Wars 1 did better than most MMOs anyway without gear progression.
Most MMO players haven’t had a choice and a lot of MMO players have walked away. In addition, a lot of people who play othr types of games dislike MMOs immensely.
Skyrim and Dragon Age were both very popular games, but neither of them were based around gear progression.
I don’t think it’s so easy to say the majority of players want gear progression, even if the current MMO maket makes people think they do. In fact, I’m not so sure most people who play MMOs think that deeply about what they want.
I have 19 including 2 mules. I’m really glad someone here has more than me. lol
You seem to think everyone fghts the Claw of Jormag all the time. I don’t. There are tons of events in this game that have nothing to do with fighting the Claw. If you choose to fight the Claw of Jormag (one of the 1500 plus events in the game) then you deal with the consequences.
There are very few events in this game that work like the Claw. Half a dozen maybe? A dozen. I guess the other 1500 events don’t count. Or the dungeons. Or the fractals. Or the living story. Or WvW.
There’s stuff to do. If some people find it fun to farm that stuff, let them farm that stuff. But if you don’t enjoy it, don’t farm that stuff yourself.
By the same rational grinding is optional in every game.
That would be true of content wasn’t gated by grinding. But aside from the higest level fractals, which was designed for those who like grind, you don’t need ascended gear to play anything in this game. You can WvW, SPvP and do anything else but high level fractals in PvE.
I was playing Rift and I couldn’t queue for a dungeon because I didn’t have enough focus. The game itself wouldn’t let me queue. I had to go farm that gear to participate.
That’s why it’s optional to farm/grind in Guild Wars 2.
Those who are saying that Anet doesn’t need to get people in the same places haven’t played other MMOs or aren’t understanding the way most MMOs are different from Guild Wars 2.
In most MMOs you don’t have this problem, because in most MMOs, everyone hangs out in the higest couple of zones and there are people around. By the same token in most MMOs the mid level zones are dead. And people have been saying the same thing about Guild Wars 2.
But because Guild Wars 2 makes all content viable and anyone can go anywhere, and because there are 26 large zones that people can explore, with caves and gullies and ways to hide from people even a short distance away, people think there’s no one playing the game. And that IS a problem in an MMO.
You’ve consistently seen threads in these forums about people saying the world is dead, my server is dead, the game is dead. That’s BEFORE the living story too.
The only place that wasn’t dead on some servers was Orr. But I don’t think Anet wanted everyone in Orr. Because new players starting out can’t go to Orr and that’s a bad look for the game and it’s not fun for them.
By putting everyone together, people see and meet other people. It’s a very festive atmosphere. I quite like it. Everyone is doing the new stuff, most people are friendly and helpful.
I saw people in the Sanctum Sprint stop before the finish line and let others win so they can get their achievements. Like it or not, I have never seen that happen in another MMO. The whole thing feels a whole lot like a party. It’s quite nice.
Now it may not be “your” personal cup of tea, but a whole lot of people seem to like it. Because some people play the game just to be in a world with lots of other people and this world is just too big to let everyone go where they want without artificially creating gathering spaces.
And moving the Living Story around lets Anet use the whole world. They’re even letting low level characters come and do the LS content, so they don’t have to level through low pop zones.
I think it’s great.
There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.
Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.
It’s not for the same reason.
Square wheels don’t serve any purpose. Living Story serves a purpose. Permanent content serves a purpose too. Anet has goals that work best with the LS instead of the traditional content patches.
Temporary content, such as has been provided by the Living Story, serves no purpose that could not be equally or better served by permanent content, which is what could have been and should have been provided with the Living Story.
Temporary content is, for anyone who happened to miss it, vaporware.
That’s your opinion. You are welcome to develop an MMO based on old principles and see if they are really better.
“That’s your opinion.” = “I can’t counter your argument.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “I can’t think of anything relevant to say.”In my opinion, of course.
“That’s your opinion.” = “Arena.net thinks otherwise.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “You are here to play Arena.net’s game, with Arena.net’s rules. The LS is part of their design plan.”And he did like the game but when Anet changed the rules he started to dislike the game, he finds that a pity for this game that has so much potential and where he already put a lot of time in.. But he knows if Anet continue like this he and many other people will stop playing so he it here to let Anet know there new rules or new way of thinking is bad.
Except that Anet actually has the metrics and based on those metrics, they’ve decided to move forward with this. Obviously they’re happy with the outcomes. If they weren’t they wouldn’t do this.
The game needed something and this is, according to Anet, the something it needed. If you’re looking for a different something, well, that’s sad, and all, and I’m not saying that sarcastically.
But to imply that Anet is losing more than it’s getting out of this is to say that you have more metrics than Anet and you know how many people are logging in.
I’m 100% convinced that if enough people were leaving over this, Anet would not be doing it.
I can’t believe people are actually defending temporary content. My friend is away from home right now and will be untill this arch is over, so he’ll miss it which is a shame because its one of the best updates we’ve had.
Now imagine that we get to fight Kralkatorik, or any other elder dragon in the living story. Do you reall think its fair that only the people who are playing at the time get to experience THE MAIN PLOT OF THE GAME?
And yet you come onto the forums to see most people defending temporary content because “having too much content is bad” and “it’s realistic”. Well i’ve got news for you guys, more content IS better, and I don’t play games to simulate real life.
Imagine if all the content we’ve had so far wasn’t temporary. 2 new dungeons, events on southsun that matter, a new area, Crab toss, story instances… The list goes on.
Making people do content that is temporary and not in there own time-frame is work, not fun, contrary to what Vayne said earlier.
I guarantee you content to fight an elder dragon won’t be temporary. I think you’re missing the entire point.
First, this content is like a festival. It’ll be back. There’ll be an opportunity to trade again with these people, just like SAB will be back. They’re making content which can be rotated in and out.
But when the main storyline is involved, that content won’t be temporary. You’re simply inventing something to try to prove a point. The stories in the Living World are intentionally left as not part of the main plot line, they’re sidelines that we can explore between major events in the world.
As such if they go away it’s not such a big deal.
Oh so Flame and Frost will come back for all those who missed it? And Sky Pirates?
There’s nothing wrong with more optional story lines in a game, unless it’s temporary so we’ll never see it again.I’m making things up as much as you are, you don’t know what the future holds either. You can’t deny that the temporary content is making players leave the game and new players reluctant to buy it. Stop defending it so much just because Anet says it’s great.
You also haven’t given us one good point as to why temporary content is good.
I can deny that people are leaving the game over it or at least, I can deny that mroe people aren’t leaving than are coming back. I play the game and it’s packed. My guild is busy. We’ve broken a hundred members for the first time without doing any recruiting at all.
The game is doing fine. SOME players wont’ like the game and those players will leave. This is no different than ANY MMO.
You claim I have no evidence…where is yours?
My points are good, even if you don’t agree with them. Leaving everything in game splits the playerbase more than it needs to be split and creates a different kind of pressure that some people would find very hard to deal with.
Glad people came and answered, today was guild mission day and we’ve been running around all over Tyria together, collecting kites and having a good time.
It’s awesome that you can finally get ascended gear in WvW.
Well, unless you like going for a legendary weapon or a cosmetic skin, there really is nothing in this game for you personally to do. Sorry about that.
If you want to get gear with better stats on it, you’re quite limited in this game and that’s how most of the game’s players want it. In fact, when ascended gear was introduced back in November, many of the long time Guild Wars 2 fans left because they didn’t want another tier of gear.
Guild Wars 1 never had another tier of gear past what it launched with. That’s what people expected of Guild Wars 2.
There’s a huge number of people who play this game who hope to never see a gear upgrade again.
Dungeon tokens reward specific armor/weapons for specific rewards. Those who played those dungeons who have that armor wear the armor as a badge. It’s not quite the same thing as the WvW badges, which you can get from jumping puzzles as well as kills.
At any rate, people are using them to get ascended gear now and buy cheap exotics.
Not a big fan of the helmets anyway so I bought a sun catcher. Then I had one drop so I gave it to my wife.
But it’s good info, OP. Thanks for posting this.
Well said, Harbard.
I also signed up to play an MMORPG.
There’s a lot more I could add, but there have been many on this thread that have expressed the same sentiment. Harbard, thank you for your voice here, you echo my feelings and my guild’s feeling very well in your posts.
I feel for you…because genres evolve. What used to be an RPG is nothing like any MMO really. MMOs are TERRIBLE RPGs. I’m an RPG guy from a long time ago and this is the first mmoRPG I can play for any length of time.
The genre is evolving. Rift had some jumping. SWToR had some jumping and I suspect future games will have a lot more of it. Genres evolve all the time. If you don’t like the way it’s evolving, it will simply evolve without you.
How far will the game evolve if a-net continue to evolve along a path ( going by this post) a large % don’t want? will gw2 be another rift? a game that started great but is now laughed at.
Say your playing rift and most respond …Rift lol
EDIT: What is interesting is thou both the games you mention are fail.
And you think they failed because they had jumping? I think they failed because they had nothing to offer but gear grind. I know someone personally who loved Rift, took a break and couldn’t catch up with his guild after the update. He just couldn’t spend the time and got tired of playing alone even though he wanted to play with his guild. It had nothing to do with jumping.
SWToR didn’t fail because of jumping either. Nice try though.
I guess it’s hard to follow what I’m saying.
One cannot for long follow a path which leads nowhere, unless there’s a treadmill involved.
In the current content, I’ve fallen to my death a whole lot of times, and most of the time there’s someone there to pick me up. But that wouldn’t happen in three or four months, if I came back here.
“I think the first thing you should do is identify your play style. Then you find a guild that fits that play style.” ~ Vayne
You can follow a path that leads nowhere without a treadmill. By definition a treadmill goes nowhere. I do this raid. I do this raid again. I do this raid again. I do this raid again. Oh look I do the next raid.
That’s a bit different than wandering around, and looking at the sights. Hiking without a destination isn’t a treadmill.
I’m not required to do all the content or any of it. Some people WILL feel they have to…but I’m not one of them.
The problem is, I often end up wrestling with my inner completionist. I know I don’t enjoy the game as much if I make it a checklist of things to do….but it’s taken me a long time in life to get to that point.
I don’t see the game as a treadmill because the game doesn’t require me to see it that way. Some people see it as a treadmill because of how they approach the game.
It’s all down to perception.
I really, really hope the devs realize that this is a too vocal, but very small community of complainers, and that the rest of us lurkers or even non-forum dwellers really adore their bravery at breaking MMO conventions.
And where do you get this from ? how do you know how many peeps like or dislike anything in gw2?
If anything going by this thread alone, most want the sequel to gw1 not the sequel to ( insert random Nintendo platformer ).
I bet the devs know what content is being played. You don’t know. I don’t know, but they do. And since this is the content they’re creating, one would think that it’s popular. Otherwise why bother?
Vayne i think your posts would be better received if you stopped stating opinions as facts when your statements essentially boil down to
I can’t prove it, but I’d bet it’s true.
while i take your point this is a terrible example
If you don’t get this, then you don’t get it. That’s fine. But the major reason people end up walking away from games like WoW is because they know they’ll never catch up. It’s a big big big reason why people stop. They just cant’ keep going.
you can always catch up in games like wow, they periodically do gear resets with new tiers and make the previous top tier more accessible. imo the reason people walk away from wow isn’t that they wont catch up its that the constant grinding treadmill to stay relevant isn’t entertaining and they burn out.
a better example would be GW2 where you cannot catch up as those players will always be X amount of time ahead of you (assuming they keep playing) in laurels for acquiring BIS or WvW rank unlocks etc so you will never match them because you are time gated from doing so. you can also never experience the wealth of content that’s been removed from the game
i have a few friends who have recently joined the game interested in content i enjoyed and mentioned in previous months, the answer in every case when they ask where they can do that content is “you cant they took it out of the game if you hurry you might be able to do the current stuff before its gone”
its that sense of urgency that the OP is talking about that will ultimately lead to faster burn out and players leaving, and once gone what is there to come back to? the one current event you need to race to complete before it gone?
ultimately this feedback will be disregarded if it doesn’t fit their existing plan, much like the 200 odd page feedback thread on ascended items was locked and discarded for a smaller more positive looking feedback thread in November.
I have people in my guild away from Guild Wars 2 for six months. They came back. And they’ve ALREADY caught up. They don’t need anything to do dungeons with us. With the exception of the highest level fractals they can do anything in the game. Anything. Arah, WvW, SPvP, anything…including the new content.
In other games that’s NOT the case. That’s the keeping up I’m talking about. People who are gone for six months have one place they’re basically screwed and that’s the PvE Leaderboard. The rest of it….not a problem.
This isn’t a content treadmill because you can just start up again without worrying about missing something….because you can still jump in and play the game with guildies.
There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.
Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.
Except that a lot of people think this will work, even if a lot thing it won’t. I’m one of the people who think it will. I don’t think anyone would think square wheels will work.
No one one has done this before because everyone has thought that the old let’s throw a raid at the end of the game and make people take months to farm it is the right way for MMOs to be.
And since I hate those types of games and won’t play them, at least Anet is trying something different. Because I can guarantee a LOT of people who have no interest in raiding very well might enjoy MMOs otherwise.
I never mentioned raids. Why are you talking about raids?
I guess it’s hard to follow what I’m saying. Every game provides stuff with people to do. They also provide stuff that gathers people together in one place. In traditional MMOs the way you gather people is in the end zones (and many of the older zones are dead…most of your world is wasted). Its’ also about raids, which people do the current ones. Much harder to get people together for the older ones. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t really have raids, per se, but this is their strategy for group people up. If you leave more content behind, there’s less people grouped up.
In the current content, I’ve fallen to my death a whole lot of times, and most of the time there’s someone there to pick me up. But that wouldn’t happen in three or four months, if I came back here.
There’s be another 8-12 chapters of the living story and everyone would be off doing the new stuff and I’d be waiting for people to race with. It’s what happens with old content in MMOs.
This is how Guild Wars 2 is gathering players together. Making it all permanent would sort of defeat the purpose.
You don’t need to play GW2 at all. I find this manner of thinking tiresome.
But if you’re already playing Guild Wars 2 you’re not locked out of content by anything being offered.
Who makes more money a guy with a 1% buff that plays a couple of times a week, or a guy who runs dungeons every day? It’s just a non-issue trying to be made into an issue.
There are always some people who feel I must have the best stats possible an if I do not then somehow I can’t play the game.
I’ve played baseball. I was never going to have the best stats. But I still played and enjoyed myself.
It’s just not that big a deal.
I’ll agree that the little permanent boost stats don’t really mean much in the long run.
But what if the main thing you enjoy about MMOs are the skins? What if the stats don’t matter? If you don’t do achievements, you don’t get the nice looking skins. You might say that you’re locked out from getting them. Sure, I don’t NEED the skins, but as Sil said, we don’t NEED to play the game either.
I’ve never understood all the “you don’t NEED it” arguments either. What am I missing?
You don’t need it NOW. You’ll eventually get those skins just doing dailies if that’s what you want. It’s all about how FAST you need it, not whether you’ll get it. It’s not that hard to get achievement points for skins. So yes, play the way you want, and don’t let shinies dictate how you play.
Well said, Harbard.
I also signed up to play an MMORPG.
There’s a lot more I could add, but there have been many on this thread that have expressed the same sentiment. Harbard, thank you for your voice here, you echo my feelings and my guild’s feeling very well in your posts.
I feel for you…because genres evolve. What used to be an RPG is nothing like any MMO really. MMOs are TERRIBLE RPGs. I’m an RPG guy from a long time ago and this is the first mmoRPG I can play for any length of time.
The genre is evolving. Rift had some jumping. SWToR had some jumping and I suspect future games will have a lot more of it. Genres evolve all the time. If you don’t like the way it’s evolving, it will simply evolve without you.
If you don’t like it…don’t do it. Clearly people do like it, because lots of people are doing it, even after they have their achievements.
Anet made a game for people, not any one person. They’re providing a variety of experiences. I didn’t like the dungeon last month but I didn’t say they shouldn’t design more like that. Because there’s other content I play.
Look, Vayne, I play MMOs for over 10 years, as your probably do. I don’t need you to tell me how devs try to do something for everyone, at least within the RPG spectrum. I know that.
I know they’re trying to please everyone. But you can only broaden your content so much, experiment so much, without spreading your content too thin and making every “gameplay modality” stupidly shallow or out of the genre (or both). And I care enough about this game to point it out whenever I see fit, and it would make things better if I didn’t have anyone telling me how I should react about things or how I should play my game.
So, don’t give me this “don’t like it, don’t play it” talk because you know it very well people will advocate their playstyle, you know that, and I know that, because you almost live in these forums lobbying for the “casual gamer rights”, doing your daily “forum PvP” as you said yourself once. And, believe it or not, as a casual player, I liked to see that, especially in days of “MOAR LEWT” “MOAR RAID” “MOAR FARM” zombie attacks.
But, you see, the problem begins when the whole lobbying thing has to be about “Please, please, make RPG content for this MMO*RPG*!!”. I know it’s perfectly normal for MMORPG forums to be this endless tug-of-war between “playstyle factions”. But when they’re stepping out of the genre too often with significant amount of resources, then it’s serious.
THAT, Vayne, is when it gets ridiculous. Doesn’t matter if you like the content or not. People who bought this game as an MMORPG have the right to have a MMORPG. Is that asking too much? Is it? Honestly?
Now I hope I made myself clear and that I don’t have to read that kinda comment again.
And, for the record, I don’t really like dungeons in this game as well, I didn’t even step into the last one and I didn’t even bother to check the achievements pane or the story because I didn’t like it. BUT I didn’t care they were making dungeons I don’t like because that’s MMO, that’s RPG, I’m perfectly fine with that.
Out of the genre is where you lost me. I’m a writer by trade. I used to think in terms of genre, but most fiction today is cross genre. The ones unable to adapt to the changes are the ones to miss out. There’s so much cross genre stuff out there it’s not funny and it won’t get less…it’ll get more.
The reason why older MMOs never had stuff like this in it is because the internet and server infrastructure wouldn’t support it. That’s all. Why couldn’t you move and cast at the same time? To reduce server calls. Not because this genre can’t cope with certain additions.
There are people out there who wan’t play Guild Wars 2 because there are guns in it. Guns have ruined this game for those people. Guns don’t exist in Tolkien so they’re out of genre.
The problem is that you can’t just define a genre because it’s been a certain way for a few years. Genres define themselves. There was some jumping stuff in Rift and SWToR too. The genre was already moving in this direction.
Anet is releasing new content every two weeks now, complete with new achievements. If you didn’t have the time for it then, it’ll just back up more and more until you will have no chance of completing stuff without it becoming a full time job.
If you want to quit, no one is stopping you. But the game is still good. You need to rethink how to approach it.
There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.
Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.
It’s not for the same reason.
Square wheels don’t serve any purpose. Living Story serves a purpose. Permanent content serves a purpose too. Anet has goals that work best with the LS instead of the traditional content patches.
Temporary content, such as has been provided by the Living Story, serves no purpose that could not be equally or better served by permanent content, which is what could have been and should have been provided with the Living Story.
Temporary content is, for anyone who happened to miss it, vaporware.
No…temporary content for anyone who missed it is history not vaporware. It’s not being readvertised.
As I said earlier this is more like watching a very long TV series. You jump in and learn the characters and move forward from when you stopped watching. Not doing the past stuff doesn’t invalidate the enjoyment you get, unless you allow it to.
Those who say this temporary content should be permanent are thinking it’s better than it is…and it’s not. It’s filler content until permanent content comes out..except for stuff that will come back periodically.
I think that this experiment is being prejudged by people who don’t see it’s potential. And I think in a year or two, even if those people go, Guild Wars 2 will continue to be successful.
There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.
Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.
Except that a lot of people think this will work, even if a lot thing it won’t. I’m one of the people who think it will. I don’t think anyone would think square wheels will work.
No one one has done this before because everyone has thought that the old let’s throw a raid at the end of the game and make people take months to farm it is the right way for MMOs to be.
And since I hate those types of games and won’t play them, at least Anet is trying something different. Because I can guarantee a LOT of people who have no interest in raiding very well might enjoy MMOs otherwise.
I can’t believe people are actually defending temporary content. My friend is away from home right now and will be untill this arch is over, so he’ll miss it which is a shame because its one of the best updates we’ve had.
Now imagine that we get to fight Kralkatorik, or any other elder dragon in the living story. Do you reall think its fair that only the people who are playing at the time get to experience THE MAIN PLOT OF THE GAME?
And yet you come onto the forums to see most people defending temporary content because “having too much content is bad” and “it’s realistic”. Well i’ve got news for you guys, more content IS better, and I don’t play games to simulate real life.
Imagine if all the content we’ve had so far wasn’t temporary. 2 new dungeons, events on southsun that matter, a new area, Crab toss, story instances… The list goes on.
Making people do content that is temporary and not in there own time-frame is work, not fun, contrary to what Vayne said earlier.
I guarantee you content to fight an elder dragon won’t be temporary. I think you’re missing the entire point.
First, this content is like a festival. It’ll be back. There’ll be an opportunity to trade again with these people, just like SAB will be back. They’re making content which can be rotated in and out.
But when the main storyline is involved, that content won’t be temporary. You’re simply inventing something to try to prove a point. The stories in the Living World are intentionally left as not part of the main plot line, they’re sidelines that we can explore between major events in the world.
As such if they go away it’s not such a big deal.
Nope, I’m not bored. I quite enjoy the combat in this game (compared to the combat in other MMOs anyway).
I’ve been having mad problems since just before the patch dropped. On my main computer I can’t stay in game for any length of time at all and every time I get kicked, I have to reverify my dat file. I spend more time trying to get in than playing, so I have plenty of time to hang out here, much to the dismay of some people.
However, I am getting some play time on my laptop at least. Just not quite the same. Customer service has been going through a bunch of things with me. So far it looks like my video card is not performing as expected. It’s only running 4x instead of 16×.
Hopefully we’ll get to the bottom of it soon.
I don’t know your opinion, but it seems that GW2 turns into a platform game with the lately content. That wouldn’t be a problem, but I am sorry to say, GW2 platform jumping is one of the crappiest if not the ultimate crap regarding jumping platformers on the game market today or in recent gaming history.
I’ve played Mario since the very beginning (DK anyone?). This definitely isn’t a game made for platforming, and this game definitely isn’t being taken over by platforming. The “lately content” is absolutely amazing and contains much more than just platforming. I’m not sure why you are complaining. Then again, I’m never sure why anyone is…
This is NOT about liking this content or not. I’m sure minigames and jumping puzzles on the side are fun (I know how obsessed I was with the halloween tower until I beat it, and i think it was the best JP so far and I like teh drinking minigame, and I do like to find jumping puzzles while i’m exploring). It’s even better when a few platforming mechanics are mixed into the main gameplay, like in fractal maps for instance.
But for the love of god, the *open world and the dynamic events have moved AN INCH while they pour and pour jumping puzzles and minigames. *
We have only the new Dynamic Events in southsun versus:
- Halloween Jumping on a whole new map (fine it’s a festival)
- Winter Jumping on a whole new map (same)
Then:
- *Super Adventure Box * something way out of the genre, an entire 8 bit simulator (wtf)
- Crab game
- Dragon ball
- Big racing game on whole new mapAnd let me tell you about this slow, on-foot, clunky “racing” game. If I wanna play a “racer with tricks” kinda game, Diddy Kong Racer and Mario Kart 64 are right across the room. And guess what, old as they are, they are a TON better at it.
I urge people who actually found this race any “fun” to take a look at cheap steam games or just emulators. Or just buy a console and play online. You’ll be in heaven. You don’t need an MMO for this.
Stop forcing the boundaries of the genre and of the game’s engine. This is not what I signed for.
If you don’t like it…don’t do it. Clearly people do like it, because lots of people are doing it, even after they have their achievements.
Anet made a game for people, not any one person. They’re providing a variety of experiences. I didn’t like the dungeon last month but I didn’t say they shouldn’t design more like that. Because there’s other content I play.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to debate me, lol. I never gave my stance, just stated that talking in terms of “need” is rather pointless in a video game, overall.
I’m fine with the rewards. I think getting so many points for HoM achievements is stupid since it’s not rewarding players for deeds in GW2, but rather a completely different game, but that’s another matter entirely.
Over the course of time 500 points in this game is really nothing. It seems like a lot, but it’s really not that much. The longer the game goes, the less it will mean. And I still don’t think they should count toward the leaderboards.
The thing that all of us have to keep in mind is that each player is unique and motivated by different things. In it’s simplest form, the reason that temporary content is a hot-button issue is that there is content being released that the players like…and at some point it is taken away and they can’t have fun with it anymore.
Now everyone has different opinions on what parts of the content are fun and what parts they could do without. But the main theme is that there was something available in game that we enjoyed doing and it’s just not there anymore.
Almost every MMO I’ve ever played has had temporary content in some form. Whether it be holiday events or story content leading up to an expansion there has always been at least a bit of content that was only available for a short time. The difference with GW2 is the type of content that is released as temporary and the sheer quantity. For some, the temporary nature of the content may help to create a more immersive and alive world. For others, it may just serve to limit the content available to them.
For me personally, I would like to have a mix of both. For content that is more sandbox-style content (jumping puzzles, mini games, scavenger hunts, holiday events) I don’t mind the temporary nature. These things allow players to experience the world in a different way and keeping these things fresh can be exciting. Other content is story-driven and develops characters, changes the world, and creates new enemies to face. This is the type of content that I would love to see be more permanent. A good story is typically one you want to experience more than once. Just like there are movies I watch regularly and books I enjoy rereading, good story content in an MMO is something I enjoy experiencing again and again.
I have books I enjoy reading more than once too, but this is mroe like a long term soap opera type series.
There was a cop show in the UK called the Bill. It ran for well over 25 years. There was no way I was going to go back and watch all the old episodes, even though I got into it and watched it for years.
The content is coming fast enough where you can’t compare it to other MMOs because no other MMO has done this. There’s just no way to say, well in other games they did this or that.
If Anet keeps producing content every 2 weeks (and some of it DOES stay in the world btw), then over a year or two,. there’s going to be a lot more to do in the world an at the same time we still have stuff to do every two weeks.
There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before. But if you are going to compare it to something compare it to a soap opera, or profession wrestling. You follow it for a while and if you stop and watch it again, you can’t really go back and watch everything you missed.
It would be prohibitive.
On this issue of burn out, people have a month to do most of the achievements, not two weeks. I agree two weeks isn’t really log enough. I think the two week release schedule is too ambitious and it should be 3 weeks to a month.
And stuff is being left behind a bit at a time. Maybe not the part any individual wants.
There are a lot of people here who say well I’d be happy if MF was left behind. I’d wager it would be hard to get a group for now, and probably be even harder in another 3 months. It’s just how old dungeons in games tend to go. No matter how good stuff is, the shiny factor wears off. People now do stuff like CoF path 1 because it’s an easy money maker, not because it’s a great dungeon.
But that doesn’t really address this issue of whether content should be temporary or not. Let’s say they left all this in. Someone who didn’t want to be rushed would just fall further and further behind anyway. It would build it. It would never end.
Someone leaves, because they feel pressured. And they’ll feel LESS pressured having it ALL there and wanted to catch up. I don’t think that’s true for most people.
People say things like X person left because they feel pressured, but they simply don’t know how that person would feel if they didn’t have time to do stuff and it remained…because it hasn’t happened. They could end up feeling MORE pressured and leave anyway.
This content isn’t made to do all of it. It’s made to bang around in and have some fun. That’s why meta achievements are so much less than all the achievements. You don’t have to do them all. If you can’t get 14 points of this content in a month…you probably aren’t going to do well at any MMO.
We all know such content takes time. Even if they didnt use some of the resources to create these events, you’d still expect them to take at least a year… some games take even 2.
snip
What the heck happened between then and now?
Its been 10 months well 10 and a 1/2 now to be fair. And what did Gw players get in that time in terms of new content as far as I know just Sorrow’s Furnace. (might be wrong feel free to correct me if thats the case)
snip
Even if it takes them 1 1/2 years now instead of 1 year I am personally very grateful they went into the extra hassle of essentially constantly proving fresh stuff to play.
C’mon man not this again. We’re not upset we’re getting content every 2 weeks (Well maybe some are but that’s not the focus of this post.) We’re upset it is getting taken away again. They’re concerend that if they do come back in 1 1/2 years they’ll have missed the majority of the content that came out in that time span.
If everything was left in, and someone came back in 1.5 years, and we’ve had 2 week upgrades during that entire time, and continued to get 2 week content, anyone starting then or even coming back then, would have far too much content to even contemplate. The game would be a full time job.
I think that’s the point you’re missing.
They don’t HAVE to do the old stuff. That’s the point YOU’RE missing. But they’d have the OPTION of doing so if they wanted to.
Nope, I’m not missing it. Because achievement points now award chests and these events give massive achievement points, many will feel pressure/compelled to do them. It’s about the rewards for a whole lot of people.
Christ man read what you type! If achivement points are so compelling to players then why do we need to resort to temporary content to motivate them?
I went over this in the OP. Yes creating a sense of urgancy is going to work in the short term, but in the long term it’s going to alienate players. Couple that with the new AP rewards system and it is not just going to alienate them from a story perspective, but also from a rewards one.
I understand kitten well why Anet is doing this, I just don’t think they, or you for that matter, see the potential long term consiquences of this buisiness model.The trick is to give people stuff to do, without making it so hard to catch up that people never do.
Some trick there. Temporary content doesn’t make it easier to catch up. It makes it IMPOSSIBLE.
If the other content isn’t there, then people can’t do it, and they just do the new stuff. There’s no reason to HAVE TO catch up but people will feel they have to. That’s the issue with people. Anet made it so they can’t. Now they won’t feel that pressure.
A percentage of people, mostly people who have TONS of time to play, will be annoyed by this. Casual players, most of them I suspect, will be relieved.
The question is who has the numbers. Will more people be kitten ed off they can’t catch up, or will more people be annoyed that they feel they have to and they leave in frustration. It’s not as clear cut as you’re trying to make it out to be.
First of all, many who’ve been here since launch (and there are a lot of us) have already done all that content. I have. I think I missed a couple of achievements here and there…and I’m glad they’re not in the game. I don’t need them hanging over my head.
But then there are people who leave and come back. Are they really going to hang around and to EVERYTHING or are they leaving and coming back because real life doesn’t leave them much time.
How many people play this game with unlimited hours and how many just log in, bang around for a while and leave again.
Until we have those numbers, the whole argument is pointless. You’re saying most people will become frustrated, I’m saying most people will become frustrated if this stuff is all there.
Anet chose an answer based on their knowledge, which anyone would have to admit is better than our knowledge. They track what people are doing. They know how many people have already done all those other achievements. They know how often and for how long people log in on.
My money is on Anet knowing more about who plays their game and either of us.