“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”
Wait for tuesdays balance patch. It will affect the meta heavily.
You’re right about that too….
The easiest solution would be to simply remove Phantasmal Fury and make phantasms inherit your crit chance rather than your precision u.u
The technology just isn’t there…
Seriously though … don’t they SEE the problem? I start doubting their competencies. :S
Just think about it – it’s self explaining. If SoI grants a fixed value if you have any Quickness at all, you won’t be needing Chrono Runes anymore.
My suggestion is to make them aoe – the 6th bonus grants you and 4 of your allies 2s Quickness. That way it works like a built in SoI and would not make them obsolete and due to the SoI nerf not op either. They would simply stay the same.
After all we are unable to fully use Scholar as an alternative either, due to our phantasmal friends …
You’re right about that too….
The easiest solution would be to simply remove Phantasmal Fury and make phantasms inherit your crit chance rather than your precision u.u
Currently the DpS Condi Mesmer uses Signet of Inspiration to share Fury to the phantasms to achieve max dps (yes this is easily possible even in raid situations, don’t argue about that in this thread).
However, once SoI get’s changed to have a fixed duration of, let’s assume 10s>, we won’t be able to sustain perma Fury on our iDuellists anymore wich is a rather big dps loss.
For the sake of build diversity and common sense in general I suggest to move Duelist’s Discipline to tier 2, so it can be combined with the highly wanted trait Phantasmal Fury.
That’s all. Please ANet do not forget about niche builds. We could really need some love, since I highly doubt the “damage increase for compensation” will affect condi builds.
Bloodlust is the strongest sigil there is for power specs, especially Mesmer since Force is rather bad for us. It should always be used if possible. The thing is, in Raids when you pug, you normally just do one boss and leave, so it serves no purpose there. However if you do full runs, there are always places where you can easily stack it, mostly preevents.
I wish we were viable in raids:( I really enjoy the hammer animations, but unfortunately we offer to much variety as a class.
We are a viable dps profession, just not easy to play.
I thought signet of inspiration just copied your boons and didn’t benefit directly from boon duration. For example, If you used well of action you would get 6 seconds of quickness instead of 3 with 100% boon duration. You could then use SoI to copy that 6 seconds to allies, not 12. However, if this is the case, and the rumor of a 6 sec quickness cap on SoI is true, then if you had chrono runes, placed well of action, and then used SoI, you would still only copy 6 sec of quickness to allies when you used SoI.
It won’t be “copying” the duration anymore with the future patch. If it’s a fixed duration let’s say 6s Quickness if the target has Quickness, it’ll definitly be affected by boonduration. However …
I bet they change SoI to function similar to Sand squall-
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Squall
Be something like “increase the duration of all boons currently existing on you and your allies by 5 seconds”.
… if this is the case, then boonduration won’t be doing anything to it. :| And it’s quite likely that it will work like this.
It’s more about that traiting the sword (power) and traiting the pistol (condi) should be on the same tier, since you barely gonna trait both of ’em. You also would like to trait the pistol and give them perma Fury as condi, so the whole thing there seems so obviously wrong to me.
I would also like to test phantasms with utility instead of damage. But let’s be realistic, this will never ever happen. :/
Oh please … Marauder and Commander gear to cripple your already medium damage even more? And ofc the glorious GS for it’s ultra cleave damage you can swap back to all the time without any heavy drawbacks wich is clearly superior to a stacking pull or the shield in general! YAY! I don’t even want to get started with the trait picks …
I didn’t want to sound rude but … how do ppl even come up with stuff like that?! o.ô Unless you are new, then I’m deeply sorry for my language.
I agree on suggesting Bloodlust wich is a (who knows why) barely used sigil that increases your damage so much. You should even use it in raids if you can stack it in any preevent.
If you want to cleave and deal with trash effective in solo, you have to focus fully on damage and gain “tankyness” with your evades, dodges and blocks. Then just use one or two mantras, depending on what enemies you’ll face together with WoC and you’re fine. The food may be a bit expensive but it’s amazing since the might on crit without internal cd stacks up so fast.
For example for the new maps, the destroyers barely got defiance bars, so you can freely interrupt them for big aoe damage: Click Me!
In the HoT maps I’d rather pick this: Click Me!
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
It’s still to early for the “doom and gloom”. Let’s first see what the Quickness SoI duration will be. If it’s around 10s, that’ll already be enough. Or maybe it will be low, very low, unusable low and they buff TW, ToT and WoA all together.
ANet may not always do make the best decisions, but they are also not idiots. So let’s wait and see.
Actually, Chronomancer runes to be aoe with the same duration would already be all we need. Calamity and we are good to go and it’s more dps, so doublekill if you ask me.
Let’s not turn this thread into another SoI-topic. This one is about traits.
btt: They mentioned “buffing our damage”, any toughts about that depending on traits?
I’ll wait for the actual changes to develop an official position on this. As with most things, this could be implemented in a fashion that is healthy for the game.
And this is all we can and should say about the topic for now. If the shared base Quickness is 10s, it’ll be 20s with boon duration (“now” that it’s a fixed duration it will be affected by it) wich wouldn’t change anything at all.
I’m also curious how they will buff our dps. Traits? Basic mechanics? Or just another flat +5% dmg buff that won’t change nothing at all :|
We don’t know, we’ll have to wait and we will see on Tuesday. But what we now know for sure: ANet truly knows how to introduce a spooky Halloween :’D
It’s more about that it seems that they should do more than the base profession. So in future you’ll pick 2 base profession trait lines and an elite spec (when there are mutliple ones).
The problem is rather that we are the only profession that gets “weaker” with the elite spec and that seems weird to me. It’s not like we lose nothing for going to be scrapper in the frist place.
That’s not what “literally” means :P
But if we talk about efficiency, you should take a look at the racial skills and their toolbelts. Altough those things are miniscule, Charr and Asura surely have the best skills / toolbelt skills to offer. Their Elites also may be useful in areas of the game where you have access to Adrenalin Shrooms, like the preevents to Gorseval.
Condi doesn’t essentaly deal more damage than power on high health targets either. It shines against husks due to high armor though. But power and condi are both pretty equal when it comes to solo dps.
Whether power or condi is stronger heavily depends on the balance between attacks speed and cooldown, or short: Quickness uptime. You can basicly say: The more Quickness you have, the better power becomes due to the natrually weak auto attacks of condi Engi. If you don’t spec Scrapper, you won’t have Quickness at all, except from Elixier U. So condi will start to become better.
But as I said, both condi and power are almost equal in terms of dps. I personally prefer power due to having more defensive abilities aswell. It also wouldn’t hurst to use the Tool Kit or Rocket Boots as condi btw. The dps loss isn’t really big, aslong as you keep nades and bombs in your kit.
I agree that the Elite spec shouldn’t be a “take it or be weaker” option. But unfortunately – speaking for PvE only – neither should it be a “take it and you’ll deal less damage” option.
What the Scrapper line needs is a party wide buff, unique debuf or a ~7% damage modifier somewhere within the kit.
Every hero point is soloable. No need for a nerf at all, that’d be boring.
Charr fits better. Bombs/grenades/turrets are low-tech compared to anything Asura you see in the game
Actually those things are high tech compared to everything Asuran you see. The Asura use magic with their inventions and as far as I understand the lore, the Asura have no clue about how Charr machines work without magic.
I think gadgets should behave like signets – for example if you equipped utility goggles, you can’t get blinded anymore, period. If you actiavet it, you get something small, while on cd, still has it’s effect though.
Gadgets need to be able to compete with a 6 skills kit, wich is atm just not the case. They are rather weak and need serious buffs. The only place to use them is in some niche scenarios.
Oh then I misunderstood your power – I’m sorry. Yea I guess so, and would overall harm the game a lot imo :/
I also remember the days when ppl thought that each hit shows the number it actually just did. Love those warriors telling me they hit for 200k 100b back in those 4 war 1 mes cof runs.
5-5 is mainly for more Alacrity, not Quickness. It’s most useful if you have a lot of staff Eles in a fight without many phases, f.ex. Sloth, where you constantly deal damage. Necros, Druids and Condi Engis also benefit greatly from Alacrity. Warriors themselves do not, but the Banners gain a 100% uptime wich is a indirect high damage buff for the party.
To make this work properly in reality too, both of the Chronos have to focus on more offensive builds, dropping Inspiration for Domination for example, so they can scratch the 14-15k dps. It’s also better to use either 2 iAvengers + 1 iSwordy or 3 iAvengers and Well of Calamity instead of Recall aswell in some fights Gravity Well instead of Time Warp in that setup.
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
What if the axe is an offhand? :|
What would you guys think about the auto attack being changed to a medium range attack, sorta like Blunderbuss, without the bleed but the same damage. However, the attack chain would consist of 3 similiar attacks, whereas the last one has a 8s cd. So you can’t use it as auto attack entierly. It would force us to use at least one kit, I know, but it would also change the Engis auto attacks being weak problem in the first place. It would also make room for a new skill on #3.
Same could be done to the pistol auto attack, buff it to be a strong condi attack with 6 rounds and then the 8s cd.
Nope, but “it’s on the table” – quote anet.
dat moment when a random pug in fractal spawn 3 avengers within 10 seconds…
… and gets you insta finished by the first avenger #goodmechanics
Commander or minstrel for coordinated fractals/raid.
Dear god no – that’s for uncoordinated fractals / raids! If you want to be optimized, go with Berserker stats.
Berserker Scepter.
Fay is correct, the go to for power Chrono is Chronomancer Runes; everywhere in PvE.
Wahooo and heya!
This heavily depends on where you are. For solo and open world, I wouldn’t, just stick to the ego buffer Flamethrower build.
For fractals and raids however, things are different:
I’ve made a list of all skills for power Scrapper. On the top right of that list you can see how much of a dps increase each kit offers over the bomb auto attack, wich is our strongest auto attack.
So aslong as you use bombs in a power build (team content), also use nades. Mortar is used for loooong range but mainly for the combo fields, heal, blind, chill and double blasty from OS (if traited, wich I suggest).
If you got any further questions, just aks, I’ll try to visit this thread a few times this evening
Wahoo!
- Ziggy
What’s wrong with the hitbox?
You misread – during the ramp up time it does an average of 22k. After you’ve got the 3rd duellist (aka ~15s), you’ll be at 25k, after the first fury share 27.5k.
The ramp up time of condi professions is visible in golem tests, the ones of power professions however isn’t since you start with all buffs right away; that is what I was saying.
I’m well aware of the dps numbers of all professions and almost all of their specs. I’ve got rather elitist standards for my guild, so testing each build and idea more than once is a must. From what I’ve seen about condi Mes is that it’s neither better or worse than the alternatives at Sabby, but superior at VG and especially Matthias.
Those are simply two different topics. The problem here is the confusion what one is talking about. The thread is about damage in general, there are post about damage dealer in raids, posts about open world content in general, posts about instances, post about hero points etc.
I will do the requested video, but not on my laptop, so I’ll have to do it on the weekend, and then I have to reinstall – how’s it called – the recording programm again – and I HATE to find all the settings again >:( …
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
There you go. I thought I already did this pages ago, but must’ve been on reddit then.
No “need to try” because you have alternatives? This is about science, you can never know too much if you ask me!
We can’t have everything. We have ultra support OR great single target dps. Our cleave dps is only okish in solo situations but in team play utterly garbage but when do you need that? :P
Isn’t great a bit of an exaggeration?
9.5k solo without any buffs or 27.5k with realistic buffs seems great to me.
True, I guess I’m just a little skeptical. I saw that picture you posted and how practical is that 27k? And speaking about practicality I think you have to keep in mind that unlike many other professions short fights mesmers do worse rather than better due to setup time, killing trash is a pain.
It indeed has a ramp up time, but that time is not more than the setup + the longest bleed duration. When you look at the golem numbers starting at 22k going up to 27k it looks like a long ramp up time, but it isn’t. The beginning is just utterly low.
Power professions start with 0 stacks might. Ever hit they do until they are fully buffed are weaker aswell. Condition however adapt to the current might and buffs. This means both power and condi have a ramp up time, although I’d say condi has the longer one, it’s still shorter than what people think it is.
I would use condi Mes only for VG as green field runner, Sabby as ranged or Matthias as main dps. Everywhere else you got better alternatives. But I doubt any pugs or … other people … are gonna take you as a condi chrono – yet. Unless you got some prestige.
I suggest you should give it a honest try. If you don’t want to because of all your “reasons” – I don’t mind anymore.
In addition to what Pyro has said about your DPS screenshot Xyonon I notice you have permanent protection, swiftness and regen. Now we all have suspicions about it because you’ve been inconsistent and manipulative in the past so I have to question are you using the chaos trait line and chaotic persistence to skimp on expertise to buff condition duration? Reason I say this is while regen is likely you’re not usually going to have permanent swiftness and not often protection up 100% which will lower DPS.
“Inconsistent and manipulative in the past” … kind words you got there. :P
Anyway …
I’ve been looking at my boons in my runs and they are between 5 and 7 most of the time, so I just went with 6. Don’t ask me where I randomly get vigor from. O.o
You also have signet of inspiration, I hope you didn’t do anything underhanded like share your quickness with the phantasms …
Oh my you’re right! I mean Fury would totally be miniscule, but Quickness, uff – jokes aside :P
… as we all know they won’t get it in a real raid and only really in low man instances.
“As we all know”? You mean “as I don’t know how to do it?” :P It’s really very easy – just set up 3 duellists about 600 range away from the team and visit them from time to time.
Just pick 4 of your friends and fight a 10m golem and try to share some boons to your phants only, you’ll see it’s super simple, you’ll see.
You say it’s alright for Sab but I would choose all other classes first because they can cleave out adds. It also has little to no soft CC. To put it bluntly it is a gimmick build with only a few niches where it might not be terrible.
Still got a marvelous focus pull for those pesky Thugs and Arsonists. That should make up for the cleave damage don’t you think?
What about that soft cc? What do you mean with that? You got pistol for cc against Knuckles or to interrupt Thugs and Arsonists, you also got a blind on your scepter for blinding outer Thugs. Emergency cc would be moa or even dom signet.
it doesn’t fool anyone experienced enough to know that it’s not a reality when translated into real situations.
Oh the irony.
But what I actually wanted to show here is the dps you can deal as condi Mesmer with realistic buffs. It’s top dps against VG (green fields), *Sabetha (ranged) and Matthias in general.*
Yeah, I know. It’s not entirely useless, but still so far from a decent DPS slot…
And this is with a damage setup. Realistically it’s ~12k while playing boonshare. Fair enough since you’re speccing for that, but there’s little reason to bring more mesmers beyond the boonshare, just bring a DPS char instead.
You seem to misunderstand – you don’t take Time Warp, you don’t take Chronomancer, you are no support. It’s like condi Ranger, just that condi Mes has some niche fights to shine.
While I agree it’s just “as good as other professions” against Sabetha, condi Mes is a superior dps profession for green fields at VG aswell a dps in general for Matthias.
There is no thing as “realistically it’s 12k while playing boonshare”. Realistically it’s 27.5k because you don’t. You are not the Chrono.
But what I actually wanted to show here is the dps you can deal as condi Mesmer with realistic buffs. It’s top dps against VG (green fields), Sabetha (ranged) and Matthias in general.
That’s well and good if you want to talk about the golem test area. But the fact remains that it isn’t a realistic scenario and doesn’t translate to real world DPS for a mesmer…
…The DPS testing area is good mostly for comparing your build to others in a relative manner, i.e. is your rotation as good as another one? It can’t be translated to actual in game DPS.
Facts? o.ô Sure it can, but with common sense.
The only thing that is differnt to the mentioned areas where to use it (don’t you dare twisting again) is the uptime of buffs that affects everyone equally – gotl, spirits, banners.
Every profession has some issues in a real combat. And while one of the Mes is that you may lose a phantasm from time to time wich takes less than 1s to resummon, there are also things in the testing area that aren’t added to the calculations. There is also damage coming from projetile finishers, torment on movement (not Sabetha) and confusion on action.
How well it translates into a real situation not least depends on your own performance.
…nor does it account for having more than 1 mob (of which, the story instances in question are heavy on constant adds) that you have to deal with.
The reason I keep focusing on the instances is because they are miserable on a mesmer and it would be impossible for you to get this DPS in the ones I mention. The class is not fun to play in PvE currently when you have more than 1 or 2 mobs to deal with.
As mentioned like – lemme think – a dozen times? – condi Mes is not made for more than 1v1s! and should only be used in niche areas like the mentioned ones. If you do – don’t complain about it – the issue then is you.
condie necro/engie lose almost no dps when going for green circles as long as VG stays within range.
Necro loses damage while moving towards the green field, Engi loses damage because being unable to follow the skill priority list properly.
More importantly, VG has low armor and while Necro is at crappy 10% power damage, Engi is higher with 20% but is crippled more than Mes while running. Our dps is 25% power damage. Power damage is increased by 36% against VG.
So I haven’t paid enough attention to this, but phantasms usually latch onto another target rapidly, which means they would tend to target any adds currently on the platform, and then die. Does that not happen?
That’s not how they work. They still are attached to Sabby, but they will target the first sighted target if they can’t reach her. Once she’s back, they will target her again. If the previous target dies, they still maintain.
There are two things to mention here:
So it’s not that big of an issue… is this proper english? Nvm – it’s just that you have to know stuff like that, that’s all.
They’ll die from leash range if Matthias isn’t on the proper side of the arena when you have to run a poison or something.
→ attachment
If you summon them between 2 wells (doesn’t matter where) and on that distance to the middle, they will never die, regardless where you have to put down your corruption.
Leash range is approximately 2000.
Yeah, in an extremely coordinated group (a la storm crows) this will never be a problem, but most groups can’t claim to have that much effective control over Matthias. Same for diversion. Can you honestly say that you’ve never been in situations where a strong breaker was sacrificed and you had to pitch in a bit of cc to break?
In my raid guild, no :P But I often help out pugs so I know what you’re talking about.
If it’s only a little cc, you can pop the domination signet first, if it’s a huge amount – moa signet. If both are on cd and we lack cc, I’m gonna have a word with the players first.
In my expirience druids barely use moas and warrior don’t have para sigills on their m/s. That’s why I always have a stack sigils with me. :’D
But cc is not an issue of this build at all.
On sabetha, any dps lost from swapping bandits is more than made up for with epidemic bouncing when she returns to the platform.
So you’d agree that Mes dps is higher than a Necro’s? Also pretty sure bringing 2 Necros just to bounce is a noticable dps loss compared to having a Mes and a Thief in the first place.
On Matthias, as I mentioned, a perfect group like SC can control the fight to an extent that a condie Mesmer can achieve excellent dps. However, that’s unrealistic for 99% of groups out there, where the reality is that you’ll spend most of the fight replacing phantasms that have popped for one reason or another.
That’s a personal issue.
Mirage sounds awesome! I imagine shatter skills to leave fields, like F1 shatters illusions on spot, leaving nullfields behind, F2, feedbacks, etc. Not essentially those skills, new skills ofc, but just that you get an idea of what I mean – a mirage!
Pretty much what Pride said. There are quite a few variation of the FT build, I personally focus on more damage going with this:
Condi has about the same damage on high hp targets but lacks survivability, utility and flexibility in terms of utility skills. And against trash mobs, conditions in general are worse than direct damage.
They are? A short duration ego reflect that prevents you from acting with a push, a short duration block with a line stun.
Tbh with the current alternatives I wouldn’t even use a shield with 50% cdr.
^amen
I don’t know how many times we have to remind you that nobody cares about an artificial testing scenario that plays to all of our strengths and invalidates all of our weaknesses. Stop posting golem parses as if they mean anything.
Edgy :’D but I guess the confusion tics, combo fields and torment damage are all pretty underwhelming aswell <3
Top dps against VG…except you’ll phase VG before you’ve had enough time to sit there dpsing to make up for the painfully slow start.
You mean the “painfully slow start” where you have 2 iDuellists right away and the 3rd replacing your warden after it’s 2nd burst? Either you overestimate the setup time or you overestimate other professions ranged dps. Wich one is it?
Top dps on sabetha…until the bandits switch and you have to do another 30 seconds of ramp up.
So it’s the 2nd one… They don’t die on Bandit swap btw. Sabetha isn’t dead so they just switch to the next target.
Top dps on Matthias…until you get volatile or fountain poison and your phantasms pop due to leash range, or you need to use diversion for breaking.
They don’t die from that leash range… If you have to use Diversion as a Mes, you have a different problem.
As I’ve always said, Mesmer is great dps on paper that doesn’t translate into reality. Even in the most ideal fights there are still so many mechanics that drastically reduce your actual dps.
Heavily depends on the fight. But in the mentioned ones – drastically? Not as drastically as it does affect most other professions. You should run a dps meter on your war / ele / thief, whatever you want – on Matthias for example.
I don’t tell you guys “You must use this!”, I just want to mention that things exist and just because pugs don’t use it, it’s not bad. In fact, SC uses condi Mes on Matthias too. You should test it yourself first, but ppl here tend to – deja vu – be whiny and rather look for more things to complain about instead…
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
We can’t have everything. We have ultra support OR great single target dps. Our cleave dps is only okish in solo situations but in team play utterly garbage but when do you need that? :P
Isn’t great a bit of an exaggeration?
9.5k solo without any buffs or 27.5k with realistic buffs seems great to me.
Gyros have their own stats, the tooltip just lies to you. It’s a bad design since they are more of fancy projectil animation (Shreddy / Blasty) than anything else. They should inherit your stats, unfortunately – they don’t.
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