Guild Wars 2

Banewrath.5107:

Ynna, I`m sorry but the shield has been made for blocking since it`s invention. When people didn’t block with it, it was hung on the wall because it really had no other purpose. Just imagine how the Roman legion, Athenians, or Spartans would have done if their shields had long cooldowns on their arrow bubbles or protection buffs instead of blocking ability. Although, a phalanx, all throwing out the protection buff at once with all the AoE damage, would be pretty neat.

But seriously, a shield is indeed intended for blocking. That is the draw to wanting to use the thing. Now when I can “magically” block 3 attacks with a cowbell and not “magically” block attacks with a shield, you kinda see the jack backwards direction Anet decided to go in when coming up for ideas to try and make item skills interesting.

The Romans would have done more or less the same. Maybe better, since they would be able to defend their support troops even better (like Phoenician archers). For Athens it would made little difference, since the bulk of their power was in ships, but a well-coordinated phalanx of Guardians would be a fearsome sight. For the Spartans it would probably also made little difference, although they did like to use their shield more offensively.
And the shield does block. Projectiles (I always imagine that scene from 300 where they’re showered with arrows when I use Shield of Absorption.). Mechanically speaking, the Shield of Judgment pairs the “shield bash” with a roundabout block mechanic (Protection).
Warriors already have mundane blocking, so for the sake of variety, Guardians can’t have that. Are their better things the Shield could do? Sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s absolutely terrible.

Vigil.3408:

There should be a real incentive to play as a defensive Guardian; Sword/Board should be rewarded but it’s not – the sword is offensive and the shield is useless. It seems to be contrary to the theme of the weapons/armor. The most defensive weapon set up is Scepter/Focus, which doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
I’d love to see the dev team take a good hard look at Guardians. In beta we had bigger health pools (which helped A LOT). Since that nerf Guardians have never been quite the same. I’m not entirely sure what our role is. We’re not DPS, and if we try to go that route we’re glass cannons with mediocre damage. We’re not healers; Engineers do that better. We not tanks; the health pool nerf took care of that.

Guardians – jack of all trades, masters of none?

A couple of questions/remarks:
1) Why does Sword and Board be encouraged? What makes that combination more worthy than Mace and Shield or Scepter and Focus? And you seem to belief that a Sword should be a defensive weapon. Why is that?
2) Wouldn’t Mace+Shield be more defensive? Or Hammer, depending on how you view “defensive”? Come to think of it, what do you mean with “defensive”?
3) Our health pools are adequate. Our lower base health is mitigated by a lot of passive defenses. Make an offensive build. It’s likely that still 1/3th or 1/4th of your skills help you survive, together with the Virtues.
4) We don’t have a strict role. No profession is supposed to have that. We can do great support, damage and control. I’ve played those roles (in sPvP only did support and control in PvE). We can be good at all of them.
5) I’ve tanked Champion mobs with no problem at all. Using Sword and Shield.

I see the people claiming: “The Shield should be for blocking,” the same way I see people who think guns can’t be magic. They’re stuck in a traditional fantasy mindset for no reason at all.
The Guardian has all the blocks it needs. No need to add more. The Shield is still a defensive weapon.

I agree with DesertRose. Guild Wars wanted to remove racial imbalance (especially in sPvP), so Asuras being shafted is kinda bad.

Banewrath.5107:

I have a focus in my offhand for my scepter slot that will give me 3 blocks. How in the world does a cowbell on a twisted stick manage to pull this off?

Magic?

Keelin.5781:

They simply assume that we somehow magically keep this tankyness (is that even a word?) when we go for full out damage and I’m not sure why that is.

Hypothesis: People go into PvP and see Guardians that just won’t go down (as they seem to be the more popular builds), thus they associate Guardians with “tanks”. Later they come across Guardians who put out sustained crit-damage (it’s the only damage build I know). Their mind go: “Wait, but Guardians are tanks, why is he doing so much damage?”
I don’t think people see individuals when talking about profession damage.

Except that during one of the beta-weekends one of the devs came out and said that the Guardian not having ranged capabilities wasn’t intended (and then they simply increased the range of the Scepter, solving 20% of our problems…).
It also depends on how you read: “We want each profession to be able to do everything.”

How exactly does it need love?
And does a weapon really need traits associated with it when it’s already good? I tend to dislike weapon specific traits, since I’m not using them half of the time (give or take).

And why did you use the question format?

Knuckledust.5621:

I kindly ask those who doesn’t have anything to contribute to this thread, to simply not post.

For those Guardians who do like the Shield, I agree it can be a good weapon and that is one of the reasons I use it, besides just looks. But the CDs are awfully long for TOO LITTLE. I can offer party wide protection and regen with Save Yourselves! on a 28secs CD.

Hammer offers AOE PROTECTION permanently if you trait for symbols. The shield #4 offers a cone wide protection which is abysmal if you are intended to be in melee range using it.

I really think you’re underestimating the Shield’s abilities. AoE Protection (paired with AoE damage) without having to jump through hoops is pretty potent as is knocking back an entire group of enemies, blocking their projectiles and finishing of with a heal.

The stats that would make sense (Toughness, maybe vitality) are already geared towards damage mitigation and it would probably cause more damage-oriented builds to lose some survivability. Linking it to Power would be counterintuitive. It also causes problems when you apply the boon to others. Would it use your Toughness or theirs?
The way Aegis works right now is great, since the effect is equal to every Guardian (and allies).

Guardians can do great damage, and I don’t see where the myth that they can’t comes from.
They can’t do _burst_damage properly. Sustained damage is no problem at all in the right build.

First of, I just reread your opening post, and like to say that I have no real issue with stacking blinds, apart from removing complexity for no real reason. It might also be too powerful with big events.
On to the other thing:
If I understand your proposal, you want to make Aegis absorb X amount of damage.
This would make Aegis a lot better against small attacks and spam attacks and remove any kind of planning about it (both for the Guardian and his/her enemies). It would simplify Aegis a lot, making it a no-brainer.
How it is now, you can’t just rely on Aegis to keep you alive (and I think this is intended design). If your proposed change would be implemented, Guardian’s survivability (which is already more than decent currently) would increase quite a lot. It would remove one of the Guardian’s weaknesses (namely lots of small hits-including conditions), which the Guardian actually has for balance reasons.

I still like it better than Zeal.
God, I hate Zeal.

@LaronX: Our lowest HP pool is mitigated by our innate defenses. Our damage specs aren’t that bad, especially if you lose the idea that you need burst to do good damage.
We are a bit redacted on ranged. Most people seem to think the idea behind it is that we’re supposed to be melee-only or that our defensive abilities (especially Wall of Reflection) paired with a strong ranged weapon would be overpowered.
I personally believe that it’s an oversight by Arenanet that they didn’t have time to actually correct.

I didn’t test, but I don’t think it does, just by the wording.

@SnakeAes: I have no problems with either point defense or burning people down, depending on the build, and I’m not that good at PvP, generally speaking.
@Red Falcon: Our traits are boring, but that’s probably another thread.
@Arken: I read the posts. The change you propose would make Aegis too strong. Just try to time it for the big hits.

It’s not hard to make a Greatsword build. Just max out Zeal (God, I hate Zeal) and pick up other traits from other lines to make a build that fits you. Try to get another Symbol if you can. If you like Spirit Weapons, you’re also good.

The Focus is a better defensive weapon for my character. But I don’t have any troubles staying alive, so I use the Shield to make sure my allies live longer. I care little for damage, so I don’t take the Torch. And I already use the Hammer, but my Sword needs an off-hand and Shield is the right fit for me.
And really, it’s okay to criticize game mechanics (I do it all the time) and people are generally too quick to call you a whiner. By all means, keep arguing your case.
But from my experience, the Shield is really good in non-solo content. Could the cooldowns stand to be a bit shorter? Sure, I wouldn’t mind. But is it needed? No, I don’t think so.

Are you really complaining about the Guardian’s survivability?
On Aegis: The passive effect isn’t all that powerful (although you can get lucky with it), but when you can access two at-will Aegises it becomes a lot better. Being able to completely ignore a big hit, without even stopping your damage/movement/support… is really good.

Broad question. Why do you want to use the Staff? What are you going to use it for?

No I didn’t say (or even imply) that I want every profession to be the same, just with different visuals. That’s you putting words in my mouth so you attack me easier.

Guild Wars 2 design intent is that each profession can participate in each role equally well. Check out the design manifesto and early information on the game as well as interviews with the developers.
The professions don’t have to do it in the same way, but they should be equally viable. That’s what I mean when I say people shouldn’t pigeon-hole the Guardian as a support profession. Because A) The Guardian can actually do great damage if people give it a chance and other professions also have great support to offer.

Shimond.2478:

I actually take that trait, so I guess I’m nobody too, cool!

Maybe we should form a club. [Insert Kingdom Hearts Joke]
I already used the 20% reduction trait, so getting additional Toughness is just a bonus to me.

@Kidel (since I can’t quote for some reason): I did, actually. In sPvP I had no problems hitting players with it. In WvWvW there’s so much going on that most people don’t really evade it.

@Rifle vs Longbow: I always propose Rifle because:
A) I like the aesthetic of it.
B) It’s easier to unorthodox things with a magical Rifle because people don’t have expectations.
C) Bows are overdone.
I don’t see “we have a Spirit Bow” as a compelling argument.

@Kindread: That’s rubbish, in my opinion. Guardian’s weren’t designed to be melee-only. If we were we would have seen vastly different skills on Scepter and Staff and the devs wouldn’t have come out somewhere in Beta saying that Guardian’s were indeed rather useless at range (and then gave a rather meaningless range buff).
And Guardians have an easier time doing support or control, but that doesn’t mean they should be pigeon-holed into that role. The design-intent of GW2 was that each profession could do anything.

The Scepter isn’t bad. And that’s part of the problem. If it was actually objectively bad, it would get changed.

Guardians can do great damage. They can’t really do efficient burn damage, but I don’t see that as a problem. Burst-damage is easily evaded, while sustained crit-damage (such as a Guardian can do) can’t really be stopped. When I used my damage build, I burned down enemies fast enough and I lived long enough to do so.

If I was Anet I would rather concern myself with adding a Longbow to the Guardian’s arsenal so that the Guardian has some form of ranged.

Rifle, not Longbow.

I never had real problems fighting underwater. It did take some time to get used to. The Spear’s #2 skill does good damage, and the other skills are fine too. The Trident is a bit boring, but the #1 and #5 skills are very effective in what they have to do.

All our weapons are perfectly viable. They might not have a playstyle you enjoy, or fill a niche you like, but they’re viable.

Tinboy.7954:

For an example, Hammer has been slightly improved recently but some skills are still terrible. One example would be the Ring of Warding, the radius is small and yet you are immobilized while casting it; it is near impossible to trap a foe in pvp like this which is supposed to be one of its purposes.

I never had a problem trapping people in it, really.

Shouldn’t be. It might just seem that way. The hitbox of all the races should be the same.

Am I the only one that actually likes the Shield?
Protection is pretty much the best boon in the game and you can’t underestimate a large AoE knockback that blocks projectiles and can AoE heal.
It might be a more PvP oriented weapon, but it really shines there.

Didn’t we had the exact same thread three days ago?
Anyway, I like the Hammer. Great weapon in sPvP, kinda situational in PvE but it makes for a good balance between offense and support.

Zedmus.8740:

All i hear is a bunch of crying. Please don’t ruin this game with nonsense. Guardians have a range weapon no your not going to be ranger. I bet ranger would love to have all of the healing, buff, support traits we get. Please cut the cry baby stuff and go back to WoW or whatever wambulence game you came from. From this guardian to you Arenanet please leave us be and forgive the cry babies for being what they are in every MMO.

I take it you didn’t read my post addressing this.

The Ascalonian Ranger in AC two-shot everyone, regardless of profession, but for open-world strong mobs, you shouldn’t have any problem as a Guardian. I can actually tank Champions with Mace/Focus. (Focus is really nice, if you want a more passive defense).
I really don’t know what the issue might be. I haven’t died in open world PvE in ages, except for one time when I foolishly stepped of a cliff and in sPvP you’d need at least two players or two minutes to kill me. I really think you must be missing something.

The idea that guns can’t be magic is just fantasy traditionalism.
The reasons I suggest Rifle:
1) I like the idea of it.
2) Balancing a two-handed weapon is easier than a one-handed weapon.
3) A Rifle is easier to accept with “weird” skills, compared to a bow.

Svarty.8019:

Ynna.8769:

Svarty.8019:

Got my Guardian to level 32.
A horrible, complicated class without the survivability or healing it claims to have.

The problem is likely on your end, because both healing and survivability can be quite high. . What are your specific issues.

It all boils down to this: *Everything hits me way too hard. *

Hmmm, that’s strange. What weapons were you using? And what utilities? Where you dodging actively? How are your experiences with other professions?
If you want high survivability, I’d advice Mace/Focus or Mace/Shield. Sword and Greatsword are also great picks, because of the large number of blinds.

@Synthesis: And how are your rewards? Because I just did that, and despite being pretty active and playing a large part in pushing the enemy back, I ended up with Bronze most of the time, and one time Silver.

@shedim: Guardian might look like a knight, but it’s not how he’s (supposedly) designed. He was made to attract the Monk-players from the original guildwars, as well as healers from other games. It’s why we have such a strong support focus. You’ll see that a lot of complaints on the forum come down to the Guardian not having enough support, or not in the way people want it.
As for front-line/mid-range: I don’t fully agree. I would have loved the option to stand back and support, and I’m sure others would have as well. Warriors (the other Soldier profession) does its thing pretty decent at range.

Got my Guardian to level 32.
A horrible, complicated class without the survivability or healing it claims to have.

The problem is likely on your end, because both healing and survivability can be quite high. . What are your specific issues.

Vaeyrune.6804:

I actually think having a spirit bow is a bit of a stretch already.. it’s flirting with the line of what fits with the profession in my mind. A physical bow would be out of the question.

And if anyone is wondering, Rifles should also be off limits to Guardians.

First of all: in your mind. Second of all: Why?

Sythus.2396:

Agree! Give us Bows!!!

Ive always argued, and will continue to do so, for Rifles.

@shedim: I didn’t roll a Guardian because it was some kind of knight. I rolled because Arenanet themselves said it was the profession designed to appeal to players who enjoy healers in other games.

I use Renewed Focus a lot, since I don’t really like how the Tomes play. It’s a bit underwhelming to say the least, but I don’t feel severely hampered by the lack of a great elite skill.

MaximusAwesomus.1784:

I can only assume people here haven’t played a THIEF.
They’re basically limited to 900 range. And they seem to understand they knew this before choosing the class and find other ways to play.

We have 1,200 range. If you require the best ranged weapon options to play, perhaps the Guardian isn’t the correct profession for you. I head the Ranger and Warrior are quite good at that.

Just because Thieves have it bad/worse doesn’t mean Guardians can’t also have problems.
And our effective range is far below 1200, and boring at that. No-one is asking for “the best ranged weapons”. I don’t even understand where you got the idea. Doing something interesting and rewarding during sieges or massive scale dynamic events isn’t that weird to ask, is it?
And you used that “play something else”-defense for the second time now. It’s never a good argument. We don’t want to play the Ranger or the Warrior. We want to play a Guardian. I’m sure most people here love 90% about the Guardian, but the profession isn’t perfect in any way.

First of all, if you’re having trouble putting out damage with a Guardian, the problem is likely on your end, not on the profession’s.
That being said, dual wield doesn’t fit with the Guardian’s image of a defensive fighter. Dual wiled in games generally shows all out offense, neglecting defense (which is differently from real-life two weapon fighting). Guardians are perfectly willing to beat face, but they don’t give up their defense.

Deadpoint.4751:

I’m irked by the massive cooldowns on the useful support abilities. It seems like I only get to play support every minute or so, and the rest of the time I’m bored out of my skull doing dps. Am I doing it wrong? I know ANet said no dedicated healers, but I had assumed support would be a viable focus. I’m currently crunching numbers to try and answer this mathematically, but any advice would be much appreciated.

In Guild Wars 2 support is something you do in between of damage or together with damage. Playing only support isn’t really an intended playstyle.

@gabo: I’ve tanked Champion-mobs. It’s not that hard.
@akamon: For me, that’s part of the problem. If the Scepter was actually bad, it would be easier to improve it.

Scepter+Focus or Shield
Sword+Torch
Build
“Rotation”
Engage with the Scepter, use Smite, lock them down with the chains. Swap to Sword, Flashing Blade to them, use Zealot’s Defense and activate #4 during it. Then finish it with the fire-breathing. And then you can crit your way to victory.

Greatsword is our best damage option, so of course it’s a natural fit for solo-PvE content. Doesn’t make it mandatory, though. As people have said, Hammer is a great option, which also gives you great utility, so you don’t have to swap weapons upon encountering a dynamic event.
Sword+Torch is also a good option.
I also heard of people using the Mace, but I personally can’t see the appeal, because for open world PvE content, I don’t need those defensive skills, only I’m fighting a Champion.

I personally don’t really have any problems with the Staff’s skills. It’s not intended to do damage, which is perfectly fine.
It lacks a bit of internal consistency, but that argument is neither here nor there.

Vaeyrune.6804:

I, on the other hand, prefer more of a holy caster, smiting foes, cleansing their sins with blue flames of purity.

Different styles, but I’m glad GW2 allows for this. I don’t want to eliminate options or pigeonhole the class into only one box.

I didn’t actually want to eliminate options at all. I wanted you the have the exact same options only less boring.

shedim.8504:

I think you made a point and I am glad GW2 allowed you to pick your holy caster, but it offers no alternatives for people, who wanted a defensive heavy armored guy, who is neither a paladin nor wielding a wand or a staff.

How about a defensive Warrior?

Not I.
No longbows, shortbows, rifles, or pistols please. I really think the Dev team got it right.

Why not, exactly? Just curious.

albotelho.2931:

I wish the Guardian had more health…

But I understand that we would become too hard to kill.

Why would we need more health? The Guardian more or less negates the lower health just by having Virtues.

The Scepter is efficient, but extremely boring, so it probably won’t be changed anytime soon.
The Sword doesn’t need any real changes. It’s a more offensive weapon that goes great with every off-hand. And blinds are really good support/control. It doesn’t really fit a supportive playstyle, but that’s okay, really.

Guardians is probably one of the best professions to do this with. Just keep a defensive weapon set available in addition to the leveling-favorite Greatsword.
As for underwater combat, it takes getting used to, but the Trident has a spamable heal, which will help you tremendously.
Best of luck!