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I don’t really dislike the Staff, but I find the weapon “unfocused”. Other weapons have a clear goal to them, but apart from a general “support”-idea, the Staff seems to lack that goal.
The skills seem disjointed and don’t really fit together. Individually, the skills are more or less fine (might do with some tweaks, but nothing serious), but put together they just don’t provide an identity for the Staff.
@Exedore: During one of the beta events the devs told us that we could either get ground-targeted or no cast time on Line of Warding, but not both.
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So, if I understand correctly, you’re asking us what skills you should buy with the skill points?
The ones that sound fun. Or those that sound like they’ll fit your playstyle.
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No problem. I dislike giving specific builds, since they’re not so hard to make, but if you need a specific build critiqued, feel free to post it.
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“Allies” always includes the player. It’s either an enemy or an ally.
But yeah, the way the traits are worded leave a bit too much room for interpretation.
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Try to get the gold. It’s not that hard, I got it without even trying.
Then just invest in the traits that fit your playstyle. Making builds in Guild Wars 2 is pretty easy and it’s hard to make actual mistakes, unless you’re trying.
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Svarty: Easy way to look at it: It blocks Projectile Finishers.
But yeah, the wording on some abilities or traits are a bit ambiguous.That’s not true, there are several spells that are not projectile finishers that get reflected by the Wall of Reflection. Maybe it’s different for Zealot’s Defense, but Wall of Reflection reflects several skills, including Fireballs and even Grenades
Indeed. Maybe I’m mistaken… This warrants further testing.
Anecdotal evidence: I do recall one time reflecting some net from an Engineer. Looked really funny.
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It is kinda much to ask about info about every possible option and their match-ups. You haven’t been exactly positive about the Guardian, giving even less incentive to make page-long posts about how the play it.
Edit: What Lothair said. Making a proper build isn’t so hard in this game and it’s hard to do it actually wrong. Make a build, test it out and come back here to tell us how it went. (/Edit)
Here’s a build I would use for roaming. (Note that I haven’t actually used it, but there’s no reason for it not to work.)
The basic idea is that you kill people quickly, then move on to the next target. You won’t hold out very well against two opponents, but you can keep them busy for a bit.
Specific tactics:
- Keep people close. You got three gapclosers, a pull and a knockdown, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
- Open with using Virtue of Justice. It will do many things at once, giving you a headstart and will refresh after the fight anyway.
- Keep moving. With this build, you’re job is to harass people in between points, or help allies on points. If you’re standing still in between fighting, you’re doing it wrong. You have all the mobility a Guardian could have, so use it.
- Symbol of Wrath + Whirling Wrath is a potent combo, if it lands. Make sure it lands by using Binding Blade or Bane Signet.
- Know when to switch weapons. Sword+Focus is the defensive part of the load-out. Use it as such.
- Know when to run away. Guardians aren’t made for running away, but some fights you can’t win. Just run. If they follow you, they’re wasting their (and their team’s) time, so it’s still an advantage to your team.
Against other professions
- Elementalist: I haven’t got that much experience with fighting Elementalists, and the lack of Stability in this build would put you at a potential disadvantage, but if you manage to just stick close to them, you will be able to shred them to pieces. They’ll be pretty mobile, but you’ve got enough tools to counter that. Don’t let them gain distance and force them in the defensive.
- Warrior: Half of the Warrior you’ll fight will get close to you anyway. These will often Bull Rush you, then stun you to finish you off with massive burst. Easy to avoid, though. If they catch you in the stun just use Judge’s Intervention and move behind them and watch them miss all their burst. Then just pull them down and use your own damage. Against ranged Warriors, again, stay close and force them into melee. They’ll often have a melee set with them, so just blind and block your way to victory.
- Rangers: See Warriors. Rangers have a bit more tools to keep their distance, so make sure you’re able to use Zealot’s Defense defensively. Apart from that, just stay close.
- Necromancer: This can be a though fight, but you don’t have that many boons they’re able to corrupt. Use your Signets to clear conditions. I never bother that much about the minions, just sustain damage on the Necromancer. They’ll try to CC you to create distance, so save Judge’s Intervention for the most opportune moment.
- Other Guardians: Against offensive Guardians, use blinds, blocks and movement impairing effects liberally. You should have more defensive than Power based Guardians. Against defensive Guardians, just take it slow, try to avoid the CC and just get them down with sustained damage. If it takes too long, just go away, they probably won’t follow.
- Thieves: Just prevent the opening burst with blinds and blocks. Then kill them. Theives aren’t sturdy. If they go into stealth, just put out some AoE with the Greatsword.
- Engineers: I don’t have specific tactics for Engineers. Just stick close. If they’re defensive, focus on damage, if they’re offensive, weave a bit more defensive abilities, but keep the pressure up.
- Mesmer: Learn to find the right one. Get Illusions down, but don’t focus on the clones. They put up a lot of conditions, so try to use your Signets to remove those.
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I can not reproduce this with players, personally.
There seem to be quite a few variables. The player I used it on (in sPvP) was just defeated. When I used it later, it didn’t work, because by the time I finished the cast, the player had respawned.
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To properly help you, more information is needed.
Do you want to actually kill the enemy, or just keep them of a point? What kind of playstyle do you prefer? Offense? Defense? Roaming the battlefield? Support?
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No. There are no good builds, only mediocre ones.
Why are you always so negative?
You act like the Guardian is bad at everything, while most of our issues are rather minor.
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If others professions can destroy you that fast, it’s likely to be an issue on your end. Guardians don’t die easy of you build/play them right.
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Svarty, don’t overreact. We have plenty of good, powerful abilities.
Signet of Mercy either needs a shorter cooldown, a stronger passive or a shorter cast-time. It can bring back defeated players, so the effect itself is pretty strong.
Virtue of Mercy would probably be overpowered without a ridiculously long cooldown.
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Depends on both their build and yours. What build do you generally run with?
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Svarty: Easy way to look at it: It blocks Projectile Finishers.
But yeah, the wording on some abilities or traits are a bit ambiguous.
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Just go down the trait-lines that improve healing or boon duration and then pick traits that help your group.
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I thought up similar things; but I wanted to follow the existing Symbols as closely as possible. What you’re suggesting is a Symbol in name only.
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Yeah, the Stability is something I don’t like all that much myself, but I did find that if I was going to do a combo field, it should be a Symbol and I didn’t want any duplicates. If we’re going with duplicates, put Symbol of Protection or Swiftness on the Scepter and Symbol of Truth on the Longbow.
Maybe I should have gone with Vigor?
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As most people here are aware, Guardians aren’t all that good at range. I’ve been thinking about it a bit, and I’ve got two suggestions. The first is rather reasonable, the second is more out there and more intended to show what’s possible.
Scepter (Redesigned)
- Orb of Wrath: Fire a fast-moving orb at the target
Range: 1200
Projectile Finisher
This skill would probably need a cast-time to balance the speed of the orb. The ultimate rate of fire should be roughly the same as before, it’s just the orb that flies faster. I also made it a projectile finisher, since it provides some support and offense. See also #2.) - Symbol of Stability: Sear a mystic symbol in the target area, damaging foes and granting Stability to allies.
Range: 1200
Cooldown: 8 seconds
Duration: 3 seconds
Light Field
This skill still roughly has the same use as Smite, but also serves as a Light combo field. I don’t like Stability on it, but it’s one of the only boons we haven’t got on our Symbols yet. Ideally, I’d swap the Symbols around, but that would go beyond this excersize. - Chains of Light
Stays exactly the same.
Longbow
- Arrow of Truth: Shoot an arrow at the target, healing nearby allies.
Range: 1200
Projectile Finisher
This skill should get a short-ish cast time to show “aiming” the arrow towards the target. I wanted a secondary rider on the skill (because just firing a projectile finisher is a bit boring), and a small amount of healing is probably the weakest you could get. I also considered Weakness, but I didn’t want this to be the first weapon to give Weakness, when no other does.
#2: Symbol of Stability: Sear a mystic symbol in the target area, damaging foes and granting Stability to allies.
Range: 1200
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Duration: 4 seconds
Build in combo for the weapon combination. Once again, I don’t think Stability is the best fit, but I don’t want to swap around Symbols on existing weapons. It definitely shouldn’t be Swiftness, but others are fair game.
#3: Cleansing Volley: Shoot a volley of arrows at the air, damaging enemies and removing conditions from allies.
Range 1200
Cooldown: 16 seconds
Duration: 5 seconds
Cleansing conditions is pretty powerful, but it’s something the Guardian should do well. You could change this skill to provide healing, but that would weaken the skill severely, in my opinion.
#4: Arrow of Justice: Fire an arrow that explodes on impact, dealing damage to enemies and healing allies.
Range: 1200
Cooldown: 20 seconds
A bit boring, but I originally had a wave-like push-back here, but that felt to powerful with all the control-effects the Guardian already has and I wanted the Longbow to be more Damage/Support than control. The healing here should be significant enough to justify the cooldown and the fact that you actually need an enemy to make the skill useful.
#5: Intervention Shot: Shoot an arrow at the enemy, teleporting along the line, granting Protection to allies when the arrow hits.
Range: 900
Cooldown: 25 seconds
I wanted a skill that would synergize with the melee-aspect of our profession. I tried to make it different enough from our other teleports, which was rather difficult. I used a more defensive boon, rather than a blind or a burn, again to strike a balance between damage and support.
I felt that this thread could be different from other threads about Guardian’s ranged capabilities, by focusing on what could be done to make our situation better, without actually looking too much at how we currently are.
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@kousei: For me, personally, I didn’t roll a a Guardian because it looked like a “Paladin” or because I expected a tank. It was because Arenanet themselves said that this was the profession for people who liked healers.
And in WvWvW it didn’t exactly deliver on that.
Can Guardians make a difference in WvWvW? Yes, certainly. But you’re only rewarded for 50% of our skillset.
Are Guardians viable in WvWvW? Probably, yeah, but only in a rather narrow niche.
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It doesn’t actually matter all that much.
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While most of us would agree, I don’t think we need another thread about it.
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It’s half true. You get rewarded for doing damage, and a support build should still do damage. Playing pure support (not encouraged in this game) does not get any rewards.
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First of: There’s reports of Battle Presence working even if the Virtue is on cooldown.
But yeah, those two Virtues are only really worth activating when traited or just before using Renewed Focus.
I do dislike you pushing the whole “Guardian survivability” into this issue, though.
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Despite some issues, we are indeed pretty amazing.
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I still like the Guardian more than the Warrior.
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I know it might not be what you want to hear, but this game encourages you to play with other people. Try pairing up with a ranger or engineer. Both of those classes have great snares and cripples. Together, you will be unstoppable.
“Enourag[ing] to play with other people,” shouldn’t mean: “make one profession horrible in one area, so its forced to group up.” Playing with other people in this game is fun, and makes you more powerful (loving the combos), but shouldn’t be a prerequisite for success.
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shedim is a bit strong in voicing his/her opinion, but does have a point.
Guardians can do okay in WvWvW, but will never shine. Part of it is that support isn’t rewarded, but another part is that our ranged weapons are pretty bad in WvWvW, where a big part of combat is two groups fighting at ranged.
You could say that we should just play another profession if we want to be viable at ranged, but I disagree with that on two counts.
First of all, we’re the only profession with this particular problem, making me think it’s not intended (together with a dev post during the beta). It’s okay for a profession to have weaknesses, but this particular weakness just doesn’t seem intended.
And secondly: because I don’t want to play a different class. I love pretty much everything about the Guardian. I have a few nit-picks about the Scepter and the traits, but overall the Guardian is the perfect profession for me. Problem is, I can’t play my favorite profession in a big part of WvWvW and get rewarded for all the work I do.
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Yes, you can do that.
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Maybe the Hammer isn’t right for your build, but I’m loving the Hammer in sPvP.
I use a very defensive point defense build, so the Hammer is perfect for me.
I can’t really be kited, because I don’t need to be moving.
The third hit on the chain isn’t as easy to dodge as you think, since the hit will follow the target.
Other tips: The Hammer is mostly a control weapon, so best to use it as such. Chain the control abilities for maximum success. For my build (with the goal of keeping the enemy of a point) I use Banish—>Chains of Light and then Circle of Warding when they get closer. If your goal is to be close to the enemy, start with Chains of Light (or another weapon) to get close, than put up a Ring of Warding and Banish them so they’ll bounce of the Ring.
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oaken, did you try sPvP? Shield is a beast there.
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I can understand why you’d want it, but it would get rather strong in sPvP (Battle of Khylo’s Clocktower comes to mind).
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“So stupid to care about skill name, I don’t care about its name or what it shouts, I just care about its effect and visuals (for other skills).
You care about visuals, but not about the name or the auditory component? That’s odd, since they are all flavor-related.
And it’s not stupid to care about it. It’s not a major issue, but it’s a bit jarring to start an advance with: “Retreat!”. Not to mention that some people in WvWvW seem to take it as an actual order.
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If you want to spam it you shouldn’t detonate it.
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Charge. Nice and simple.
Charge is a Warrior skill.
Not to mention it has the same problem as “Retreat!”. Charge implies charging forward, while the skill can also be used for retreating.
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There’s no reason why other professions couldn’t kind. Hell, there are probably a few professions who’re a lot better at kiting than we are.
What I expected in beta seems to be happening: people are using the Guardian as a crutch.
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Our traits have some issues. In my opinion, Zeal most of all.
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This couldn’t have been put in the existing Hammer thread ?
Where we’ve already discussed the speed of the Hammer animations.
OT: Hammer is fine.
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Guardian weak for WvWvW? You gotta be kidding me!
You can help, a LOT!
The problem isn’t that we don’t have enough to do in WvWvW.
The problems are:
- Support isn’t properly rewarded.
- We are limited to one specific type of gameplay in WvWvW. (Meaning: not everyone finds support fun.)
- It can be hard to see the effectiveness of your support spells.
- Most of our weapons become useless in sieges.
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I think the problem is that people expect you to tank.
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Sorry I didn’t know that people are complaining the same thing.
I like your idea thought.
Don’t take it personal. It’s just that I don’t want to see a “Shield is terrible” or “Hammer is slow” or “we suck at WvWvW” thread every 10 days. We’re already rehashing things a bit.
And thanks.
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Are we really going to cycle through the same threads every ten days?
Yeah, the Scepter is pretty boring, despite being effective.
If I were to change it, I’d make the first skill a projectile and the second skill a Symbol or other combo field. I think that would go a long way in improving it.
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It’s condition removal on a short cooldown.
I don’t know by heart, but the damage is probably okay as well when cleansing a condition.
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In this thread you can find the build I use. Very defensive and hard to kill. Could feasibly be adapted to work with Staff and Mace/Shield.
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I use shield. Shield and sword. I always go for style, and there’s no problems when I can kill folks with them. I think people just like going for the best stats, not for their favors.
Is it that unreasonable that people’s favorite look should also be somewhat effective/viable. If I were to play Warrior, I’ll use Axe+Sword because I like that idea (based on a character from a book), but I’d also like that build to not suck.
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Most conditions (and some boons) have a visual component. A player who is crippled will limp instead of walking, a poisoned player has a green tint, burning people are on fire…
HP is more guessing, in my opinion.
Players affected by something sometimes give vocal hints. Those are pretty useful.
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Works for me. Broken makes it sound like it’s completely useless, which is only somewhat true in WvWvW.
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@Blades: If you play like that you’re hardly getting rewarded. It’s fun and probably effective, but you get Bronze at best.
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A profession can have troubles without being broken.
“Troubles”? Terming the issue differently doesn’t alter the issue.
Broken means: unplayable. Fundamental flaws that make it impossible to do well with a profession. Guardians only have real issues with big WvWvW fights. In all other things they can perform well (maybe not perfectly) enough to succeed and be rewarded. Saying we are broken is meaningless rhetoric, used because you’re emotional about the issue, or because you want others to be.
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I don’t care much for condition damage, but if it’s your thing, go for it.
Just pick stats to complement your playstyle. If you find yourself dying a lot, get more defensive stats, if not, just focus on the offensive.
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