Guild Wars 2

I used to have one name in every game until GW1 where I couldn’t use it… It had my real name and some numbers (which gw1 didn’t like). That name had been through a bit… Plus my interests changed. Now I’m Zero Day/ZeroDay in games.

Zero Day (taken from Wikipedia):
A zero-day attack or threat is an attack that exploits a previously unknown vulnerability in a computer application, meaning that the attack occurs on “day zero” of awareness of the vulnerability.

I’m surprised they haven’t closed this thread yet…

1. Ascended/Gearing:
“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions…"
Sorry I’m still holding onto those words, but that’s exactly what I wanted and expected when I got this game. It would be nice to freely/easily jump between builds or try builds out without having to worry about how painful it is to acquire max stats.

2. RNG/Legendaries:
They’re not legendary at all as Korossive pointed out. Getting a legendary (or actually, the real culprit is the precursor) is like winning a lottery. That’s not legendary, that’s just luck.

3. Class balacing:
Please, split the skills into 3 state: PvE, PvP, and WvW. Balance the skills within those states, so that PvE doesn’t impact PvP and vise-versa. Best examples, thief and warrior.

After you have reached max level on at least one character, there should be an option when creating the next character to choose if you want to level from scratch again or insta-80.

See, if there was a way to hit 80 in a couple of hours, maybe a day or two… fine that’s cool… The only way to do that is through craft which requires you to have $$$ (gold, or gems -> gold…), which is just….
As an example, D3. You can create staff of herding, and get a friend to power level you, takes literally a day or two. Creating the staff costs peanuts… There’s nothing like this in GW2…. craft? that doesn’t cost peanuts…

“Handed down to you” – it’s a kittening game. If your mindset is just set in stone with no hand outs…. I hope you end up without arms or legs, and no one feeds you, cuz hey… you want it to be just handed down to you? I maybe pushing it, but your also pushing it… as it’s just a game.

1. B2P
2. Beautiful art
3. Sending mats to stash/bag organization.
4. “Modern” graphics, but I guess that relates to art.
5. Concept of WvW, concept, the implementation can be improved…

Jaed.9823:

Name one other game where the AVERAGE rate of reaching max level is 5 days (and if you list Rift, you’re a liar.)

GW1: Factions – Less than a day, I think a couple of hours?

Sanduskel.1850:

Imagi.4561:

Sanduskel.1850:

I didn’t say all. I said most. All would be hyperbole.

But if “most” players enjoy the Thief, and not all, then how have they “balanced it so that all players can enjoy it”?

I doubt that’s possible. there will always be some players who want an imbalanced game. Players from all classes as a majority can enjoy the game, not just from the thief class.

Yeah, makes sense like that… Since the number of players that play other (than a thief) classes is more than (duh,… thief is only 12%? the last infographic showed) the number of players that play a thief. Hence even if every thief quits and/or dislikes this patch, the majority will be happy! It feels like a bully circle.

TBH, I can’t wait until they nerf thieves to the ground making them completely and utterly worthless…. because… guess what’s going to happen next … and after that too … :P i just wish they could speed the whole killing the thief process up, so that they can move onto the next victim.

What’s this… thieves still exist in the game!?!?
NERF THEM PLEASE THEY"RE OP

Yup, got infracted

WORTH IT

Viking Jorun.5413:

I’ve spent roughly $1600 on this game, don’t mind the vertical progression or grind. Tell me more about how entitled you are because you’ve spent a lot of money.

Holy kitten.

Can I ask why?

Arikyali.5804:

(If you’re having problems with thieves, it miiiight be better to go and ask for help in the mesmer forums. >.o)

Funny you recommend that….
Why improve and get help (learn to play, l2p)…. when you can go on the profession’s forum and cry, then await for their nerf?

insaneseagull.7063:

Of course this hurt me,it has left me emotionally scarred for life,scared of ever fighting a thief again

;) Don’t worry, if you cry hard enough we will get nerfed.
And if you don’t cry hard enough, we will get nerfed.

Rest assured somewhere in the upcoming patches we won’t be able to ooc.

Hell, I believe they will eventually nerf choking gas as well (and make it unstealth us), people are starting to have problems:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-and-Stealth/first#post3218032

Just gotta get them to nerf our crafting speeds too (we craft faster than other classes in stealth -> OP, unfair, nerf please), and our gathering speeds (we gather faster in stealth -> …). Then we will be all set!

NinjaEd.3946:

Stooperdale.3560:

“Well thieves aren’t for everyone, you know. Either work harder or play another class.”

Sanduskel is up to 48 posts in this thread now with expert advice like that. Just ignore him.

Yeah Im not an expert in these forums but I’ve already picked that out, this Sanduskel guy has no evidence to back up his posts. Can’t even call them opinions because he doesn’t back them up aside from rewording his earlier post.

Just remember guys, if he makes a point:

Sanduskel.1850:

Again, sample size of 1 an anecdotal.

generalization of responses to come:
1. Hahaha we got your monies!
2. It wasn’t set in stone.
3. Yes, they should have done what they said.

Sanduskel.1850:

Dec 10th isn’t the end of the world, lol.

If that’s your deep interpretation of this thread, then okay.

Zeon.8239:

….
If you feel like you’ve expended cooldowns that leave you vulnerable enough to let them kill you when they come back from a disengage, then just continue to run in one direction until said cooldowns are restored.
….

OMG I DIDN"T KNOW I COULD MOVE WHEN THE THIEF DISENGAGED TO POTENTIALLY STALL FOR TIME … IT"S KINDA LIKE I"M RESETING THE FIGHT IN MY FAVOR

(I think people mindlessly run around in circles, where the thief was, trying to do random kitten…)

Keep the discussion going ~ Bump

Zacchary.6183:

…
They won and as a prize they made the game more unpolished.

Polished in their eyes, until another way of cries.

Interceptor.2653:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s a slippery slope argument that is too far from what I’ve posted.

It is no such thing. You support a policy of no nerfs, only buffs. That logical result of that, no matter how long it takes to get there, is power creep. And making monsters get stronger to compensate, is just a nerf to players by another name.

Balance by buffing has been tried. It has failed. Nerfs are unpopular, but they are necessary.

Argument in the sense of it being a slippery slope, it is and it isn’t.

Only buffing… so let’s talk about just damage, and use simple numbers and a simple scenario.
Class A deals 100 damage.
Class B deals 50 damage.

This feels unbalanced because B doesn’t do the same amount of damage.

Class B now deals 100 damage.

For some odd reason Class A doesn’t deal as much damage as B. We can’t nerf B, so we can only buff A.

Class A now deals 125 damage.

Everyone is happy.

Class A is later buffed to do 200 damage.
Well now we’re at the start where A did twice what B did.

It can be done. Just we will see a constant inflation of numbers (eventually we will be doing 40k on normal auto attacks like in other games). To “nerf” one class in the case of only buffing, you buff other classes.

Easy, I’m surprised that “Who Gets the Nerf?” is even a question when the thief is on the table.
Going down the list:
1. Thief
2. Thief
3. Thief
4. Thief
5. Thief
6. Thief
7. Thief

Reasoning (possibly players): OP UNBALACNED PERMA STEALTH EXPLOIT FACEROLLING CLASS SOOOOOO EZ TO PLAY AND ROLL NUBS 4DAYZ LOLL9OLOLOLL I GET KILLED ALL TIMEZ BY OPEN STEALTH NERF THEM PLZ

Real reasoning (possibly as devs): To provide build diversity.

Real Real reasoning (possibly as devs as to why their real reasoning):

Nope.
They’re stuck in “queues”.
See what I did there?

Burnfall.9573:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y

Ignoring Burnfall in general. Focusing more on the video itself…

1. Let’s take a moment and realize that Yishis is skilled. Meaning what he’s able to do comes from his skill (in addition to the lack of skill in his enemies).

2. It’s easier to watch and say “oh yeah that looks easy” than it is to do it yourself.

3. During that whole video/commentary did he ever stop talking? No, he had so much to say about the fight and what’s going on. Now, this is him re-watching the fight and commenting on it. And he tells what and why he did what he did in the fight. No imagine, during the fight you had to make all those decisions faster then he was talking/reasoning in the video. Those decisions had to be made quick, almost like a reflex, and they had to be right (otherwise… well we don’t see any clips ). This comes from his own skill and practice.

4. All the clips (and I skipped through them) are of him “winning”, killing his opponents and getting away. Do you think that always happens? You probably do, because you probably mostly watch montages or the likes. Plus, not a lot of people include their failed attempts in their videos. So it’s easy to think that "since there’s so many videos of people just rolling classes with class X, it must be that class X is OP. ".

5. He mentioned “especially difficult classes”, meaning that a person of his skill still has troubles with some classes. Now what he will most likely provide/show in those tutorials would be of him 1v1’ing and beating them, as they are tutorials and are meant to demonstrate the ways in which you can accomplish something. What I doubt he will show is the 1v1’ing attempts for those difficult classes where he failed to beat them. This once again adds to the illusion that you can beat everybody with the thief. The thing is, you can beat everyone as anything with anything, if everyone is having a bad day, getting distracted, afk’ing, intentionally dieing, not having the same skill lvl as you (list can go on for a ages). And the flip side is true too, you can get beaten by everybody when…

Just food for thought when you watch these videos and then say “see how OP thief is! look at this video!”.

Zacchary.6183:

…
Its like people want thieves to stand there and die for them.

Actually, what I want is:
When I see a thief on my screen he instantly dies and the loot goes straight into my bag without me having to press ‘F’ to loot.
When a thief logs into the game, he instantly dies and the surrounding players get loot into their bags.
When a thief respawns, he instantly dies and the surrounding players get loot into their bags.

Till then, nerf thieves!

I will repost this from before (edited a bit)…

So the thing is…
People don’t want to be dropped in 3 seconds, regardless of what it means for the person that’s killing them (or the over-all/global context). They want to fight, and feel like the fight is fair.

You brought up (GW1) assassins, remember BoA/Shadow Prison assassin? Here’s a video of an average BoA assassin day

The nice part about that video, is that it’s not a montage, meaning it shows what happens to the assassin AFTER they killed their target or failed to do so. You can kind of see that it’s sort of iffy when you will take down a target if you don’t use proper judgment. You can see that really, if he killed 1 person it was good, if he made it out live it was just amazing (then proceeded to run around waiting for CDs). Some planning/judgment does need to take place to decide who to jump and who not to jump.
Despite all this, people cried that the build was OP, and it was eventually nerf-ed (rendering it completely useless).
Assassin type builds will NEVER exist, where their sole purpose is to drop one guy and gtfo or be killed.

Stealth in this game, on some levels I have to agree that it’s badly handled only because the enemy can’t force* a thief out of stealth or detect the thief in stealth. WoW’s rogues when they came too close too you (touching you pretty much), you would see them, hunters could put up flares that revealed stealth within a certain area…. In LoL there’s oracles, there’s wards (if you don’t use them it’s your fault)… I believe in most games where there’s stealth the enemy gets a way to reveal stealthed units.

Combine “no way for the enemy to detect stealth” issue with “wanting a fair fight”…. tada! you got a problem.

And so, when Dec. 10th does go through, and a thief build manages to 1v1 people, and it becomes a build/flavor of choice for 1v1/roaming/scouting, people will complain once more, calling it OP/broken/abusive.

Elaborate a bit further on wanting a fair fight… or the term fight in general. Most of my friend’s (in real life, yes I have those) understanding of a fight is what you would see on UFC. While I agree that that is fighting, but to a certain extent it’s also not. In UFC they get points for dominating/controlling the ring, points for doing this and that… there’s rules set in place so that not too much harm is done between the two fighters. And they’re view (my friends) is limited to that and just a little beyond that… My concept of fighting can range from anything UFC like and even more restrictive – to – no rules (sand in eyes/kick to crotch), anything goes (use of objects), last person standing/alive is the “winner” (hey, we’re animals after all, look at them). Yes the extreme is that fighting can lead to death. Clearly you can say, and it’s proper to say, wars were “fought” between X and Y. That being said, the same can be applied to fights within a game, or people’s concepts of fighting in games.

2nd one only up until 1:07

(Before I get hated on, both bands are decent, I used to listen to metal (not much anymore, tastes change)…)

John Smith.4610:

Don’t believe everything you see, the 11k is probably real, but the other numbers simply aren’t.

:o You could be suggesting:
1) No one has reached the 321,334g 17s 93c mark.
2) The currency is stored as an integer, having an upper limit of 2147483647. Which is at most 214,748g 36s 47c.

The video is about being a thief. Standing alone.Sometimes with someone alike.We stand calm and chuckle at the chaos around us on the battlefield. No matter the situation we’re in, the tough places we’re put in, we stand and chuckle because we know that we can succeed.

Flip side:
You put a thief in any situation and they’re a joke.

(this is going to be a great thread)

Yeah that’s a sick trailer.

Actually, I’m kind of curious to hear answers to these questions from the devs:

Do you feel that the average “time” it takes for a player to get a legendary is appropriate? (I know it’s hard to define time, since it’s RNG based getting the precursor)

What is the average time that it takes for a player to get a legendary?

Do you feel that the cost of the legendary (or it’s main component, the precursor) on the TP accurately represents it’s worth?

These questions can pertain to both the legendary itself or the precursor. And I guess the sneaky/hidden question is, is the RNG and/or the chance (%) of getting the precursor how it should work?

You will definitely get more appreciation and sympathy in the warrior’s section.

insaneseagull.7063:

You OOC till your enemy slips and do a mistake

Um… isn’t that normal in a fight? Or is my understanding of fighting skewed? I mean fighting in general be it game/real life. Your enemy kittens up, you take advantage of it and punish them for it.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Zero Day.2594:

:D could you image that the books are RNG based (as bad as current precursors)…
:D so effectively they haven’t done anything.

I suspect they will be a more common drop than precursors. More on the order of exotics.

Though it does call into question if they are listening at all… I mean the whole thing we didn’t like about them was the RNG… so now they implement an RNG method to get the crafting recipe…

We can only wait and see… I don’t think it will be pleasant though… Considering they did Time Gate ascended… so it’s within the realms possibilities that it’s time gated, RNG based (as bad as precursors/ascended), or something else that’s also artificially prevents the player at getting the precursor at their own rates.
Best case scenario: You purchase the book (not with gems!). The fee doesn’t matter that much at this point, as the fee will go into the overall cost of the legendary. (I shouldn’t say it doesn’t matter… please don’t make it 600g, make it something less… at most 100g)

Though, I’m looking forward to the worst case scenario, in where they say “Oh, look we gave you exactly what you want! You can craft a precursor, so long as you buy this book from the gem shop (or RNG it. or wait 2-9weeks to get it, or …)”

Shogun.7401:

They should nerf permanent stealth.

Let’s generalize it:
They should nerf thieves (some more!).

:D could you image that the books are RNG based (as bad as current precursors)…
:D so effectively they haven’t done anything.

Rahar.9872:

capmasterflash.5690:

I switched to p/d this week after going d/d or d/p for about 8-9 months straight and I’m really liking the condi build. Once you “get it” it becomes really flowy and can pretty much down any class 1v1 except broken condi necros, really good mesmers, and good warriors/guardians who spec’d condi clear.

So pretty much everyone?

No, not everyone.
Condi necros, at least from my experience, I see those a lot in hot join. And if they’re not condi’s they have a kitten ton of minions (and you know how target works in this game…) which can also be a pain in the kitten .
Good mesmers… Measure of skill. If you suck so much and he’s good you will lose. If he sucks so much, and you’re good you will win…. bah similarly for anything…
good warriors/guardians who spec’d condi clear – Good warriors, easy to come by since they’re more of them then other class, and they’re easy. Though let’s ignore that. More importantly “spec’ed condi clear”, there’s the counter… don’t want to use counters? Well… keep crying (in general, not you Rahar)

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

salty. if you think regen is better than init traits/skills than you really should think a lil harder. even if you had 1.5 init per second its not as useful as having initiative gain skills/traits bc u need them on command to finish enemies or escape or to go stealthed. having initiative on command is a NECCESSITY for thief. not a luxury.

Isn’t that one of their reasons for nerfing, the fact that it’s a “necessity” to be using skills/traits that give init. You know if they nerf them so much that it’s relatively useless to take those skills/traits… then we don’t have to, and that promotes build diversity! So, if any of our skills/trait’s become another necessity, that’s when they become targets for a nerf (buffing/fixing other skills/traits? lol good one)…

u missed the point. its a neccesity bc we need to have a FAST gain. not a fast regen. for emergencies and finishing. low hp low armor no block no invuln no protection no aegis …. its a neccessity. this init nerf is making it worse. its taking the control from the players and making it passive not to mention for an overall loss.

p.s. I was being semi-saracastic on saying nerf something to promote build diversity because that nerfed something is now useless… pretty soon we will be running the famous reroll-to-warrior build or the bother of that build reroll-to-guardian build.

Doxie.4037:

The Dec. 10th changes seem reasonable for the reasons listed, but my thief still seems like it has a ton of problems which have not ever been addressed.
…

Don’t hold your breath, just use the reroll-to-warrior build.

Hype.8032:

Giving on-demand init gain increases the skill ceiling though. Nearly all builds have it in some way or another already. They need to work on making all our weapon sets viable rather than dinking with lackluster trait changes.

Yeah… I’m sure that will happen…

Travlane.5948:

salty. if you think regen is better than init traits/skills than you really should think a lil harder. even if you had 1.5 init per second its not as useful as having initiative gain skills/traits bc u need them on command to finish enemies or escape or to go stealthed. having initiative on command is a NECCESSITY for thief. not a luxury.

Isn’t that one of their reasons for nerfing, the fact that it’s a “necessity” to be using skills/traits that give init. You know if they nerf them so much that it’s relatively useless to take those skills/traits… then we don’t have to, and that promotes build diversity! So, if any of our skills/trait’s become another necessity, that’s when they become targets for a nerf (buffing/fixing other skills/traits? lol good one)…

Arganthium.5638:

Excalibur.9748:

…Warrior is good at all of those modes (ANET golden child and most played class)…

I see what you did there.

:P well, the OP will find out the hard way eventually.

Shufflepants.9785:

Next you’ll be complaining that a condition thieve’s bleeds tick on you while he’s in stealth. Or that a guardian can hold up his shield to block once while he attacks you. Or that a mesmer can attack you while his clones are up and you don’t know which one is him.

All those things are unfair and deserve a nerf! Only I am allowed to WIN.

Lol….
if anything we will see another nerf soon:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-and-Stealth/first#post3217676

Auesis.7301:

If you die to Choking Gas and Caltrops, you should perhaps play a different game.

I recommend this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Kitty:_Roller_Rescue

I would recommend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_ball

Sorry, you deserve (on multiple levels) to die if you stood in choking gas for too long and died… that’s like drowning in a bathtub with foot of water. I don’t know…. This is becoming more sad…

kitten please just remove thieves altogether… i mean, fine people had issues dealing with backstabs… but now THIS…. it’s like instead of them l2p they’re l2s (i’ll give you a hint it starts with ‘s’ and ends with ‘uck’).

Edit: Actually, what am I saying… I totally agree with you OP, either stealth needs to be nerfed on thieves more, OR nerf the choking gas somehow (smaller radius, or remove the poison effect so that it does nothing but a circle on the ground. I think that would be fair).

For sPvP (hot join) I run:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYYlUmCN3ay5E95EB3jk60mqp4m2sTBWlPA;TsAgyCuomxAjAGrPuZk+s+YEwcBA
Though Signet of Shadows I replace with Ambush.
I’m not too sure how well it can translate into WvW.
The basic though, you want to enter stealth whenever possible via CnD to use Sneak Attack.
Ambush + Thieve’s guild helps in creating a bit of chaos in 1v1-3 fights (learn to place ambush as an engagement/offensive trap or during the fight).
Shadow Strike (and now because of the torment) is really good for getting out of close range+helps kitting via torment damage.
Dev venom for when they’re running away or trying not to engage you…
Spider venom is kind of a decoy condition, if the opponent can only remove 1 condition, you want to apply poison and/or torment to ensure that the bleeds you apply thereafter don’t get cleansed (assuming they can only remove 1 condition…)
Ugh, the 2nd set, I changed from D/D to SB still with energy sigil, helps gtfo when the going gets tough. (shadow strike, 1-2 x dodge roll , switch to SB (get quit a bit of endurance back), infiltrator’s arrow, 1-2 x dodge roll = should be way the kitten away from the fight)

This is the build I run, and feel comfortable using, it may not be/isn’t the best build. And again I don’t know how well it will translate into WvW.

Sanduskel.1850:

Don’t listen to the vocal minority. Thieves are fine and will get better next patch. the howls you are hearing are from baddies who relied on cheesy specs and want their OP specs to remain. I still enjoy my thief and look forward to the patch. welcome back.

Sanduskel.1850:

Again, sample size of 1 an anecdotal.

See what I did there?

Smiley.5376:

L2P !

TOO HARDZ, OP PERMA STEALTH EXPLOIT THEIF TOOO EZ TO PWN WITH
EZIER TO CRY FOR NERFZ ON OP THIEFS

:P
(sarcasm)

edit: Don’t forget to nerf our (thief) crafting speed!

Jaradon.2756:

Imagi.4561:

Sanduskel.1850:

Again, sample size of 1 an anecdotal.

…What?

What indeed, he certainly lost me…

Basically whatever Sanduskel says is irrelevant because he’s a sample size of one.

I’m completely for, nerfing the elite skills only on norn thieves though. Everyone else should get a buff to that skill.

Olba.5376:

Yeah so that Guardians, Warriors and Eles are immune to Thieves due to having access to burning without requiring a target.

Also, what’s your counter to stomping with:

• Blind?
• Stability?
• Mist Form?
• Invulnerable?

Please nerf all those too, I rage and QQ so hard when I get stomped when I’m downed. It has nothing to do with the fact that I got downed in the first place and it has everything to do with the person being able to stomp me. I must be able to stone them to death when I’m downed! I must prevail!

~
No I don’t, hell (I play as a thief), when I’m going to get stomped by a thief, I see they enter stealth, count 2-3 seconds, and teleport/stealth so they don’t stomp me on that try, that is if I want to kitten them off and hope that they go on to the forums to QQ. But really, more often then not it’s a time waster… majority of the time there’s no gains after being downed, it’s pretty much you are already dead. Also, general AoE CC’s work… like warrior’s hammer skill, gaurdian’s 5th staff skill, to name a few.

~
All in all, I agree! Nerf thieves more, please! Also remember that they craft faster when they’re stealthed, so if you can nerf their crafting speed that would be awesome as it’s unfair to other classes.

Luto.1938:

Well first the engi was an upscale so he went down kind of easy. The Ricochet from hitting the engi was how the thief was taking so much damage. As soon as the thief was out of stealth I switched to him allowing the Ricochet to finish off the engi.

:P If only more people knew how to play/fight… And how there’s more than just the build component to the fight, there’s the person’s ability in the fight. Kind of like you explained here. Made proper decisions on the spot, fought correctly, and was able to kill what some people consider an OP build (and some people consider p/p not good/useless) plus an additional enemy. You knew both your build and what to do in the situation. Once again, good job.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

….
The queue system is more of a lottery than it is a line.
…..

This, it was confirmed by a dev too.

WOAH!?!?! 2:30-2:58 HOW DID YOU COUNTER PERMA STEALTH EXPLOIT THIEF AND AN ENGINEER AND KILL BOTH!?!?! HOW!?!? PERMA STEALTH EXPLOIT THIEF OP, THIS IS FAKE BECUASE WHAT YOU DID IS IMPOSSIBRU. MUST BE CUZ ENGINEER WAS THERE AND IT NERFZ OP STLEAH BUILD.

Seriously though, nice, impressive and inspiring. Kind of want to try switching from p/d condi build in sPvP to what you’re running. Mind posting the spec?

Dee Jay.2460:

Zero Day.2594:

Dee Jay.2460:

I’ve been both on the receiving end and the dealing end of the tank + Thief combo.

It’s incredibly powerful and I can understand why some consider it OP. It’s very hard to counter such a high pressure Thief when you’ve got other thing exploding and knocking around you.

What you’re doing, and what he’s doing in the video… it’s called coordinating, if you mean the combo in general… I’m sorry that those people he killed in the video mindlessly kept running forward as one of their buddies was getting plowed … It’s OP that they’re mindless, i will give you that.

It’s not that simple unless you’re gonna call everyone “mindless”. It’s incredibly hard to counter the Thief in situations with so many targets. Countering a D/D Thief is all about denying him Cloak and Dagger which is nigh impossible in such situations.

It doesn’t make the enemies bad or even mindless. Just be on the receiving end yourself and you’ll see.

My bad, “mindless” is too harsh of a word. They (people he killed) were very uncoordinated and didn’t know how to handle the situation. They made poor decisions throughout the fight which gave (and continually added on to) Shu’s and his ele partner’s advantages. I was going to write a funny-mocking narrative on the enemies in the video, but notice that only after 1:30 did they really focus the thief that was killing them instead of chasing around an ele that wasn’t doing much damage (thief was kill them) and wasn’t dieing either… The ele, was a decoy (a very well played), the “tank”.

Correct me if I’m wrong but there was two of them versus ~7 (eye-balling) (same world) enemies. If anything the thief would have problems choosing the correct targets that are most effective against them (thief and ele) or that are easy to dispatch.