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Patch notes - the irony

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Zero Day.2594

:( Traps weren’t buffed. The patch notes must be fake.

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What is so good about trenchcoats?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

The main reason is because they already have trenchcoats base and raw material, so they get that raw material and just do some thing here and there and kaboom you have the skin

But not using that raw and base material will take them time, resources, money, work, etc to make new ones, then after probably might clip or not fit correctly and etc and new problems will happens

In the end is about ‘’too much work’’ so, trenchcoats for life, but the same pattern is applied to heavy and light armors but with less impact that you wont really notice it

Basically what this guy said.
Sad but true.

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ESL Guild Wars 2 Officially Shutdown.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Um…

Are you forgetting about the much needed development of outfits/skins in the gem store?

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Guild Wars 3?

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Zero Day.2594

WoW is how many years old now? Is there a WoW 2 planned for that game?

No. And no to your question.

And the valid point here is…?
And this comparison is valid because…?
And this makes sense how…?
And why should ANet care about what blizzard does…?

So many questions…

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I had enough of thief...so

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

99% of wvw population is zerglings spamming 1 on loot stick (no offense, but it is reality).

The OP was defeated by someone that pressed 2 after 1…

And because of this unexpected turn of events, the OP couldn’t stand a chance since he could only press 1.

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I had enough of thief...so

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Thanks for the bump.

Have one yourself!

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Nerf Wish List

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Originally by: Hitman.5829
What: staff and evades need a huge nerf
Why:
It is ridiculous that a new player like me can spam evades and dodges and still deal a huge damage without any risks.
Thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/I-had-enough-of-thief-so/first

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Perma Dodge build over the top?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Necro much?

2 years issues are still relevant if they warrant another nerf.

Seems legit.

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Skill Balance coming!

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Since I’m loosely following this game…

I’m psych’ed about the coming skill balance changes.

My money’s on nerfs to things that are still useful and buffs to poison/traps.

You should have made a bigger bet haha xD

Meh.

It’s kind of typical of ANet…

For some reason they have a giant bone for poisons and traps.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Since I’m loosely following this game…

I’m psych’ed about the coming skill balance changes.

My money’s on nerfs to things that are still useful and buffs to poison/traps.

Nailed it!

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Forums too bright

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Depends on what you mean OP…

I find some of them a bit too dim.

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Thief Balance Suggestions

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Introduction:
I’m not a game design expert

The thief meta builds are just over tuned right now. And while they may be on par or even worse than other meta builds at the moment, that doesn’t justify the state that the class is in. And you are correct, I do believe the other classes need to be nerfed significantly as well. Thief is just what I know and can offer insight on.

I will pretend you’re showing part of the over-all solution…

And with that say, it’s best you show the WHOLE solution and explain all the nerfs across all the classes – not just one.

Until then, this “balance suggestions” are pointless and can come off as someone salty pretending to be a thief main proposing “balance suggestions”.

Oh yeah…
Take Care ;D

Why would I make suggestions for classes that I only play enough to know what they do?

And what part of this post is salty? I proposed changes and outlined where I think each weapon is in terms of balance and what direction they should go. Do you play thief? You don’t think D/P and staff are better than every other weaponset? I mean, if you play the class and you think it’s in a good place, I can only assume that you either don’t care about diversity or you rely on some of the things above to function in the game.

I mean, I guess the other solution is to leave thief the way it is and we’ll all just play the same build- or we’ll buff every other weapon until they’re all equally as forgiving?

Please.

“I’m not a game design expert”

“And you are correct, I do believe the other classes need to be nerfed significantly as well. Thief is just what I know and can offer insight on.”

Either, explain your whole concept of balance, across the board, for all classes, what needs to be done for each. Or don’t.

It’s great you can “balance” one classes and basically say "yeah this will work, if/when other classes also get a ‘balance’ pass " – but that kitten just doesn’t fly well here.

You don’t have to be a game designer to offer balance suggestions in the same way you don’t have to be the President or a member of Congress to know about public policy. So please save it for someone else. lol

  • I don’t have to explain balance across the board. Thief has problems in and of itself that need to be addressed independently of other classes. How it fares in relation to other classes isn’t relevant in this context. * Thief’s entire power budget is loaded into one meta or two meta builds that suppress every other option. It’s unhealthy. I guess if you rely on the meta builds- or god forbid a ghost thief build- to survive, then these suggestions are probably terrifying. But honestly, if you can’t survive without Bandit’s Defense or kill people without spamming Headshot, then you’re probably not doing it right to begin with.

Right…

But see, how it fares in relations to other classes IS relevant.

True you can look for “local” balance within the class itself, but it’s also important to look at the “global” balance across the board… Else you risk making the class too good or too bad.

Also, meta-builds, you wont be able to escape. They will always exist as people will always try to run the best and most optimal build for a given task.

But yeah, neither of us are game designers.

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Ranged Weapon Use

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

As far as I can remember…

Short-bow is best kept and used as an alt weapon. But if you have to, condition (?), stacking bleeds off cluster bomb.

P/P again from what i can remember is best ran as power. But it’s not really a good set. Or I don’t know, maybe it’s better now…

P/D can be power, but I used to run it as condition.

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Skill Balance coming!

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Considering this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5uupy0/wing_4_boss_1_daredevil_solo_5700/

The community won’t allow for a thief buff.

who cares about pve?
in PvE everything is possible when u fight brainless npc’s if ur going to boost or nerf classes based on PvE then anet is beyond horrible.

Your outrage is all the more reason for them to have split the game modes in the first place, rather than balacing the entire game around one singular mode of play that has no bearing on anything else.

It’s why so much of the game is screwed up right now.

The split balancing, i think, is a philosophical thing. As in, on one hand supposedly things will be balanced better per mode. On the other hand, it would take more resources and make the flow between game modes feel crappy.


For instance.

We can agree that it should be split up like so:

  • PvE
  • WvW
  • sPvP

But then PvE has a few of it’s own…
Open-world-PvE (OWPvE)
Fracts (and dungeons)
Raids

So really:

  • OWPvE
  • Fracts
  • Raids
  • WvW
  • sPvP

Now, the gear already changes when you enter sPvP, but for other modes it doesn’t.
Think how awkward it would be to adjust each time to each of those modes. Yeah, partially it’s due to the lack of a builder saver… But I mean what if D/D played different across all 5 or so modes?

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Changes to Ascended Vending

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…

You might want to try out GW1 sometimes. End game gear there says hello.
How far did we get from those times now…

Pretty far.

To be fair, they are two completely different games that are only overlapping on the lore (and ofc the name).

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Changes to Ascended Vending

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Zero Day.2594

Good point, but it also not neccessary to rush for asc gear, eventually you get as drop, and it’s only required for a small part of the content.

True.

The problem arises more so for a couple of people.

Min-max-er’s that run a couple of builds/alts.

And a community (be it a guild in WvW or for raids, or that pug group you joined) that almost enforces everyone to have ascended gear… and as someone that doesn’t, you’re left out (or kicked or w/e).


GW2 feels like it’s in an awkward place in terms of rewards/goals/progression.

To some degree the game claims it’s more horizontal progression, yet we have ascended gear. Besides that, if it’s horizontal progression – and based on cosmetics – than some of the better ones are in the cash shop/black like tickets.

And be cause of that initial thought that the game is more horizontal progression than vertical, something like ascended gear flys in the face of that with it’s relative grindiness.

But that’s another topic…

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Do NOT make those vending changes that....

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

It isn’t fun for people like me who spent a lot of money leveling crafting only for some guy to lose their way into a 5/6 ascended pieces.

I guess it won’t be fun for you when you’re old and the world has changed and someone is driving a levitating car compared to the one on wheels you had to drive… geez and you spent the same or more on it than the guy with the levitating car…

Though, probably not in our life times, but you get the drift. And I’m not really ripping on you, rather this selfish mentality that may prevent things from going forward.

Instead of thinking “kitten, we spent so much and now these guys spend so little” – think “back in my day….” or “back in the good old days…” “we had to chore to get our ascended armor” – there’s a bit more of a sense of pride/history rather than envy or some-type of selfishness.

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Skill Balance coming!

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Considering this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5uupy0/wing_4_boss_1_daredevil_solo_5700/

The community won’t allow for a thief buff.

who cares about pve?
in PvE everything is possible when u fight brainless npc’s if ur going to boost or nerf classes based on PvE then anet is beyond horrible.

Just think of the outcries…

“Buffed thief!?!?! wtf?!?!?! they could already solo wing 4 of a raid that no other class can!!!!”

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Thief Balance Suggestions

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Introduction:
I’m not a game design expert

The thief meta builds are just over tuned right now. And while they may be on par or even worse than other meta builds at the moment, that doesn’t justify the state that the class is in. And you are correct, I do believe the other classes need to be nerfed significantly as well. Thief is just what I know and can offer insight on.

I will pretend you’re showing part of the over-all solution…

And with that say, it’s best you show the WHOLE solution and explain all the nerfs across all the classes – not just one.

Until then, this “balance suggestions” are pointless and can come off as someone salty pretending to be a thief main proposing “balance suggestions”.

Oh yeah…
Take Care ;D

Why would I make suggestions for classes that I only play enough to know what they do?

And what part of this post is salty? I proposed changes and outlined where I think each weapon is in terms of balance and what direction they should go. Do you play thief? You don’t think D/P and staff are better than every other weaponset? I mean, if you play the class and you think it’s in a good place, I can only assume that you either don’t care about diversity or you rely on some of the things above to function in the game.

I mean, I guess the other solution is to leave thief the way it is and we’ll all just play the same build- or we’ll buff every other weapon until they’re all equally as forgiving?

Please.

“I’m not a game design expert”

“And you are correct, I do believe the other classes need to be nerfed significantly as well. Thief is just what I know and can offer insight on.”

Either, explain your whole concept of balance, across the board, for all classes, what needs to be done for each. Or don’t.

It’s great you can “balance” one classes and basically say "yeah this will work, if/when other classes also get a ‘balance’ pass " – but that kitten just doesn’t fly well here.

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Changes to Ascended Vending

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Don’t cry, it was way too easy before, and other games have an ENORMOUS gear grind, even 70-80g /asc piece is NOTHING for an end game gear compared to other games…

Just because other games have worse grind doesn’t justify it for this game.

Would you say the same thing if they brought in something that’s p2w in the cash shop? Just shrug it off and say “other games have worse p2w cash shops” ?

Furthermore, some games that do have grind in them may be built around that grind – as in it feels enjoyable rather than a chore.


And I salute the likes of you for having played other grindier games than the “plebs” that are complaining about it on these forums….

God you’re a kittening veteran!!!!

Personally, I’ve played grindier games too – say MapleStory (back in the 0.35v days). Or even D2/D3…. The grind in those games fit those games. Whereas for GW2, grind doesn’t fit the game too much. Sure it exists, but it feels, again, like a chore instead of some sort of an enjoyment.

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Thief Balance Suggestions

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Introduction:
I’m not a game design expert

The thief meta builds are just over tuned right now. And while they may be on par or even worse than other meta builds at the moment, that doesn’t justify the state that the class is in. And you are correct, I do believe the other classes need to be nerfed significantly as well. Thief is just what I know and can offer insight on.

I will pretend you’re showing part of the over-all solution…

And with that say, it’s best you show the WHOLE solution and explain all the nerfs across all the classes – not just one.

Until then, this “balance suggestions” are pointless and can come off as someone salty pretending to be a thief main proposing “balance suggestions”.

Oh yeah…
Take Care ;D

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Considering this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5uupy0/wing_4_boss_1_daredevil_solo_5700/

The community won’t allow for a thief buff.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Tooltip corrections?

“bug” fixes?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Keep the predictions coming, ladies.

And then on patch day we will see if any have come true.

Pro tip, make them more general/vague. Like mine is nerfing something useful and buffing venoms/traps.

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Skill Balance coming!

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Since I’m loosely following this game…

I’m psych’ed about the coming skill balance changes.

My money’s on nerfs to things that are still useful and buffs to poison/traps.

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Players on EU and NA can't meet.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Because NA players have their data stored in the NA data center, and EU players have their data stored in the EU data center. Moving data between the two takes up to half an hour. Players would likely be unhappy having to wait so long to join others, join instances, play together, etc.

Right…
Yet if I remember correctly, GW1 did have a International Channels.
So it’s more like they don’t seem to have a middle-ground server for both regions, that could respond to both regions in a reasonable amount of time – in terms of decisions made in game (as in, did you kill something? what’s your health? where you are…).

Furthermore…. There’s already a bit of “communication” going on between the two regions. You can talk/whisper cross-regions, you can even see them on the map if you’re in party – their blue dot shows up but they don’t. You can talk and see people’s names in guilds/friends that are from another region, along with where they are….

In terms of “Moving data between the two takes up to half an hour.” – I’m not sure what you’re referring to, or how you’re quantifying things and what’s being moved…
DB’s? Tables of DB’s? Simply entries? It’s like you have some insight into this… I mean if you meant the logical decisions the server makes about the game, then no, not an hour – your latency will just shoot up to as if you’re playing on a foreign region from home (ping of +400ms). The only scenario I can see that takes more hour is someone requesting to region transfer. At which point the system will eventually (on whatever check cycle it’s on -as in check every 4 hours) pick up that someone requested a region transfer and will take a couple of minutes to send everything where yet another system will eventually check if someone is transferring… (But all this I made up in my head)

It takes a few hours for a transfer from a NA world to a EU world or vice versa from what I believe for the average player. Remember, all of our character data is stored on ANet’s servers.

The servers aren’t likely SSD’s and it takes a while transfer data, which for this game would include: our inventories – bank & bag (and which slot something is in), what our characters look like, what’s equipped, what traits are chosen, what skills are chosen, which utility is in which slot, what step the character is on in the personal story/living story, what their map completion is, etc.

OP isn’t talking about region transfer but rather interaction in game – which can happen (and has happened in GW1 case) if there’s a middle-ground game server (the one that makes game decisions, not exactly used for storage).

As for trying to justify why it takes hours… besides processes checking every X-hours, or an employee going in after X minutes/hours and doing it… the transfer of such raw data should not take much. Unless they have it really poorly implemented – which given their shard/roll-over updates (as in if they could come up with this idea…), I’m guessing it’s just what I described above that takes time.

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Players on EU and NA can't meet.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Because NA players have their data stored in the NA data center, and EU players have their data stored in the EU data center. Moving data between the two takes up to half an hour. Players would likely be unhappy having to wait so long to join others, join instances, play together, etc.

Right…
Yet if I remember correctly, GW1 did have a International Channels.
So it’s more like they don’t seem to have a middle-ground server for both regions, that could respond to both regions in a reasonable amount of time – in terms of decisions made in game (as in, did you kill something? what’s your health? where you are…).

Furthermore…. There’s already a bit of “communication” going on between the two regions. You can talk/whisper cross-regions, you can even see them on the map if you’re in party – their blue dot shows up but they don’t. You can talk and see people’s names in guilds/friends that are from another region, along with where they are….

In terms of “Moving data between the two takes up to half an hour.” – I’m not sure what you’re referring to, or how you’re quantifying things and what’s being moved…
DB’s? Tables of DB’s? Simply entries? It’s like you have some insight into this… I mean if you meant the logical decisions the server makes about the game, then no, not an hour – your latency will just shoot up to as if you’re playing on a foreign region from home (ping of +400ms). The only scenario I can see that takes more hour is someone requesting to region transfer. At which point the system will eventually (on whatever check cycle it’s on -as in check every 4 hours) pick up that someone requested a region transfer and will take a couple of minutes to send everything where yet another system will eventually check if someone is transferring… (But all this I made up in my head)

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Human male Daredevil animations

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

You’re a bit late to the party…

DD animations weren’t exactly well received from what I can remember.

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Today's delay reminded me of toxic players

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594


There’s always more good players than toxic players.

That’s a positive way of looking at it.

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What's in your wallet?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Approx. 2.4kG
I flip, maybe not as much as some though.

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Fallen from former glory...

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

….
wvw is the only game mode that hasn’t lost its spirit yet…

Should try posting that in WvW forums… You’ll see what kind of spirit is there.

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Thief is so OP

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

See, in the 2 years that you quit, you could have ….
wait for it…
wait for it…
LEARNED TO PLAY.

But instead you choose to quit since you don’t have the nerve to deal with the issue yourself (ei. git’ing gud).

And after 2 years, you come back to make a kitten post expecting what?

Here, let me hold your hand, and tell you that the devs are looking into it. Or tell you stories about how Thief isn’t OP but class X is…

Honestly, not sure what you want out of your own post.


:/ I was so let down that he’s not asking for a nerf, just crying.

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Curious why more people don't PvP or WvW

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

I used to WvW quite a bit for a few months, a bit after release. I’ve also tried my hand at pvp’ing, also for a few months after/during WvW’ing (skill gap is noticeably btw).

There were two common reasons I’ve stopped both. Class balance, and rewards. I understand that times have changed since way back when, but I’m have a hard time finding the desire to come back. Class balance I understand that it’s a hard thing to do… But in both cases, the class(es) that I did want to play, had a role I did not want to play. I’ve tried playing other classes with a more desirable roles, but those classes weren’t as fun or interesting to me to keep me long enough. Rewards, way-back-when there wasn’t tracks, felt very underwhelming. Especially for WvW. When the fights, the moments, where so epic… but the rewards were so trash and meaningless – so much so that made me think “What the hell is all this for?” almost in a depressing manner (I know fun, but that thought just ate away at it). I’ve also started to flip at around that time, which made it even more depressing, knowing that what I made in 3-4 hours of play I can easily make in 5-10 minutes of flipping.

PvP specifically. Besides balance… Stale map/mode/metas. Not much incentive to play, besides fun – which I can get more out of a MOBA (back then) if I wanted PvP “fun”. PvP tends to get toxic real fast if you start to try… Once you start trying you start to get annoyed with people – inevitable in any team based pvp game that puts with you randoms that may or may not care about winning (or doing things properly – ei. running a half decent build). So without much incentive and with the inevitable annoyance by people, PvP didn’t last too long. Though, whilst pvp’ing off nights and wvw’ing other nights, I do remember becoming very good in terms of fight in WvW.

WvW. The reward thing as I mentioned kind of was one thing. It also played into another. WvW feels like this big and epic thing… that gets underplayed, undervalued, or underappreciated by devs. Like you can build so much on top of WvW alone, in terms of game systems (rewards, politics, so on). Besides that, if you’re just running in a random zerg, nothing too epic happens, or not often. At which point it starts to feel like PvE, with just kittentier rewards – and makes you think “why am i doing this again if it’s basically PvE?”. If you’re running in a good (+20 members when WvW’ing) and coordinated guild, then it’s loads of fun. Getting in a guild that does that is “hard?”.


Edit:
Oh and the inaccessible (from WvW/sPvP) ascended gear – back during those times – didn’t help either. The feel of being less than optimally geared in WvW…

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

My god, what have you done to thief?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Careful, OP, the Thieves are by far the most biased players. You’ll never be able to get a constructive thread going here. No matter how powerful Thieves get, they’ll always think they’re weak. The truth is that they’re not weak, but that they’re poorly designed. The Trickery trait line is mandatory in all specs and Anet has balanced around that thoughtlessly.

See… It’s not going to be constructive because not one word in the OP has been constructive.

Most seasoned teefs are aware that the class is just designed poorly.

Also, no matter how poorly designed or weak thieves are, there will always be people crying because they’re but-hurt.

(Replace “thieves” with any other class from any other game and it will still hold true.)

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Change Wish List

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Originally by: Lonami.2987

What: How would you redesign the thief?
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/How-would-you-redesign-the-thief/first

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How would you redesign the thief?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

See the change wish list in my signature.

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My god, what have you done to thief?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Got me excited a little.

This doesn’t qualify as a nerf wish/request.

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Why I hate thieves

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

“Decent spot” may not be the most accessible spot.

What has always been the case, and still seems to be, is that there’s a large gap between god-like and trash tier. Average/decent, is rarely to be found.

Hum…I think you are wrong on this one. If you only consider a game, I agree with you, the thief job is either well done or butchered / rendered useless there is no middle ground. But you still find thieves on all level. There are matches you are able to make +1 work, others not.

btw nice to see you on the forum again.

Maybe there is.
From what I can remember, it used to feel that until a certain point in terms of how well you performed – you might as well be on another class because you would perform significantly better. If that makes sense.

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GW2 - Marketing

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Maybe they don’t want to remind people of the kitten-storm that happened when HoT was released, and the thing with the sale… oh and editing the wiki/website page… Can’t remember what it was exactly….

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Perfect Evasion

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Next spec will prolly have something to do with either of the following:

  • Venoms
  • Traps
  • Turrets
  • Pet/Mob/Companion AI
  • Underwater (best under water spec in game though!)

Pair with a “weapon” such as:

  • Torch
  • Warhorn
  • Scepter
  • Underwater weapon that thieves don’t have.
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Perfect Evasion

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Sounds pretty do-able.

They will gut the daredevil spec and then make the one you’re suggesting.

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World Completion worth doing?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

For the fun of it, yeah.

Gives you something to do when you log in.
GW2 world is beautiful, I gotta admit, so doing world completion will take you through all of it.

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Why ia build variety a joke in gw?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Just to play devil’s advocate a bit (I do that a lot, it seems), is it wrong to suggest that some builds that are “viable” but not “optimal” could be made “more optimized”? We all know, there are builds out there that just don’t work at all (i.e. “not viable” in some content) but could work better with some changes. Then there are builds that we wished existed but don’t and could exist if certain balance changes were made.

Build A could be more optimal then Build B for a particular task. It does not mean that Build A stems from Build B – it could and it could not. Both builds are viable if they can successfully. One is more optimal than the other if it performs better at the task.

Completely beside the point.

So Build A could be made more optimal to perform closer to Build B for the same task. Now Build F is even worse than Build A which is seen as suboptimal but viable. Build P is even worse than Build F. Not that all builds can be equal, but could changes be made to facilitate improvements for Build F and Build P without harshly affecting Build A-C?

That is the point I was trying to make.

Ah!

See you’re looking ahead it seems…

In my explanations Builds A through Z have no impact on one another. They are builds, in the explanations, that exist kind of like in a vacuum (to avoid complications) that are made to complete a certain task. What build, what task, what game – who knows. It’s just an example used to explain things.

When builds start effecting each other, than you’re looking at a group level. Again, viable groups, and optimal groups emerge…. But that’s at the group level.

You can take those groups and somehow add them togather to make populations (or w/e), that are then have a different viability or optimality at that “population” level.


It is possible that a group composed of optimal builds (on the “build” level) could end up being sub-optimal on the “group” level. That is the optimal builds in that group are lacking synergy between each other. But this issue is at the group level now, you have more things to account for…

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Why ia build variety a joke in gw?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Just to play devil’s advocate a bit (I do that a lot, it seems), is it wrong to suggest that some builds that are “viable” but not “optimal” could be made “more optimized”? We all know, there are builds out there that just don’t work at all (i.e. “not viable” in some content) but could work better with some changes. Then there are builds that we wished existed but don’t and could exist if certain balance changes were made.

Build A could be more optimal then Build B for a particular task. It does not mean that Build A stems from Build B – it could and it could not. Both builds are viable if they can successfully. One is more optimal than the other if it performs better at the task.

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Why I hate thieves

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

“Decent spot” may not be the most accessible spot.

What has always been the case, and still seems to be, is that there’s a large gap between god-like and trash tier. Average/decent, is rarely to be found.

Having taking a break from GW2, and now lurking around again, I can see that the thief hasn’t moved out of the spot that I last saw it in… Meaning… The spot that it’s in right now, is the spot that GW2 devs want it to be and will keep it in – get used to it.

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Nerf Wish List

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

Haha, there is some great memories in this thread.
Thanks zero, for all the entertainment this thread has provided over the years. Well done.

It’s funny. The one time I came back to visit the thief forums… there was someone wanting a nerf. I couldn’t just pass by.

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Question about Nerfing/Likelihood for Thiefs

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

That’s normal.

People think that voicing their opinions on forums can change something.

I’m not saying they can’t change things, just requires all the stars to align….

(Like a dev reading the post, that dev not forgetting to bring it up at the next meeting, all the other devs spontaneously agreeing, everyone develops its, tests it, loves it, and ships it. – Oh, and the dev had to have been drinking a latte, when reading the post, that was stirred counter-clock wise.)

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Question about Nerfing/Likelihood for Thiefs

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

I’m guessing you saw the Nerf Wish List?

Woops…

The thread, if you read the OP of it, is more of a satire or a “jester” thread.

People always have and always will complain about the thief, for just about any reason possible. Very few, provide good complaints. Most provide kitten cries which they see as valid complains…

Devs, from what I remember, seemed to have been making changes arbitrarily (across the board, if you read all the other profs, everyone kittenes) . Surprisingly, or maybe not, some of the nerf “wishes” have come true. But that’s kind of like having a big enough target and taking lots of shots, eventually you will hit the target…

Probability of a nerf? Who knows. I’m not sure if they decide via a coin flip or a 20-sided die.

Best to read the current situation of the thief, and choose to either accept it or not. Thinking about how things will be… is kind of waste of time.

I can assure you one thing though, some people will continue asking for nerfs…..


Edit:

That thread, is a collection of nerf wishes/requests, that has happened over a couple of years… So, don’t think it popped up just today. It’s an old thread, that I brought back like the diseases that those kitten cries gave some of us on the forums.


Edit 2:

The disease starts with a “C” and ends with “ANCER”.

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(edited by Zero Day.2594)

Why ia build variety a joke in gw?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

For that matter the word “Optimal” is also garbage because in this game being “optimal” to a build path is based on your stats so “optimal” X is not “optimal for the class” it’s just optimal for X. It depends on your end-goal.

Yup, that is what optimal means. You’re optimal for completing a certian task. You’re the most effecient at performing said task. Other taskes? Well, those are other taskes, that you may or may not be optimal for (but we don’t care).

WoW, the comparison, actually has a single state of optimization. You can be viable in 3 (count them, 3!) different ways and playstyles. . . After you follow a very distinct path to that. GW2 suffers from analysis paralysis instead; there are so many combinations and options that work and are “viable” that it’s overwhelming and no one explores.

Well, 3 viable ones shown on the Noxxic DPS charts. That’s not to say that there aren’t 50 others that are capable of completing w/e task you’re looking to complete (at this point it’s being top on the DPS chart). Hell, even more than 50, who knows how many – like you said, it’s overwhelming and no one explores.

Out of those three only one is the best of the three, the most optimal for being top on the DPS charts. Most of the time there’s only one. Conceptually, there can be many – but – they have to produce the same DPS and be equally as easy. If, say there were two builds that produced equal DPS but one had a more complex rotation than the other, the complexity of it would push it out of being optimal since it is not the easiest possible way to produce that DPS. Like a rotation containing 3 skills versus one that contains 4 skills, the first would be more optimal than the second even if they both produce the same DPS.

It’s basically an exercise in failing to find the sweetspot.

Yeah kind of. The terms, I’m thinking of them more of sub/super-sets of each other. The human aspect, being able to do those rotations perfectly, makes it wonky, and yeah find what best works for you… Again going back to the WoW mage example, there was a 7k difference in DPS, well that 7k can be gained or lost through how well the player executes the rotation.

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Why ia build variety a joke in gw?

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

First, let’s all stop using these two terms:

“Viable”.

“Meta.”

The thing is, we need terms to discuss things. More terms allows for more complex discussions… But yes, I can see where you’re going with by the next few sentences.

OP has said, that there is only one viable spec that the engie has for raiding. With that, it’s importent to have several terms (besides “viable”) to help example what the situation is and why there’s only one and what there’s only one of.

Because being “viable” in this game is stupidly easy. Nomad’s is “Viable”. And I am not even being facetious; you can make it work and people have.

Being “meta” in this game just means that it is the most popular, as per what meta actually means in latin, it does not really suggest or even guarantee anything near optimal.

Yeah I can’t argue that being viable is easy, but that’s what being viable is… Simply being able to do something successfully. You can say, there are many viable options for coffee machines when looking for one… Yup, there are millions of different types of coffee machines. All of which produce coffee. Though, some, produce garbage tasting coffee, but still complete the task of producing coffee.

“Meta”, as far as I’m aware is like a concept of a concept. Besides games, I’ve only come across “meta”, as “meta-data” – which is data about data, or data that describes data. You can’t really say “meta-build” as “build that builds/describes builds”, so I think where it kind of comes from is the theory crafting part… Theory crafting first develops the build then tests it. Several builds are developed, tested, and then out of those builds the most optimal is deemed “meta”. A new term, that’s easier to describe is “meta-game”, heard in Overwatch. You can say it’s the game before the game… As in you’re think of “hey, we have so and so on our team how can counter so and so but can be countered by someone else but is better suited than…”. Essentially you’re trying to play out all the scenarios and the “best” solutions to those scenarios – prior to even being in the game. Theory crafting a build has some elements of trying to play out all the scenarios/variables – say boss fights with lots of AoE on the ground that you need to dodge would require more mobile builds…

Truthfully, yeah kind of cringe at the use of “meta” (just like the use of “datamining”, “exploits”, “hacks”, and all other kinds of things that people use losely and freely)… But I understand it’s the internet. It’s jargon that caught on, for w/e stupid reason things catch on, and it’s best to just understand what it means and how people are using it…

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