Guild Wars 2

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build. (Meta builds being created by pop streams like Quin69 and who-not, whilst they push they ladder (on which you can see the build they’ve completed that grift with…))

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said. Maybe choosing to exclude some words too, like the word “personal” in the “personal dps meter”.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

You did get one part right, just haven’t made further connections from it.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

I dont care if he is god, that excatly why i like this game over wow, the elitist have no place here!

They exist, and will always. How blind you are to them, is dependent on you.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Dota 2 does not have solo queue. Solo players can, and often will, be matched against premade groups.

So, let’s repeat history? Since we can’t, or rather don’t want to, learn from it.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds – or rather, proper, true meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

Furthermore, it will kind of “crowd source” balance testing for ANet – making it easier for them to identify problems and fix them.

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will be doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

Like, we always had a “meta”, without the dps meters. It’s not the meters that scare you people, it’s the meta.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think.

Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it). The “meta”, will still discriminate based on builds/classes, regardless, even if the dps meter is personal.

:) Regardless of how much people are going to fight off the damage meters, for w/e reason, a meta will emerge and will continue to do what it’s been doing.

Shogun.7401:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn0MBlOhFOB+OBkmiFYCzLMEHaDzdwR4KULBEA2NA-TpBFABCcBAEvMQDHCg73fYhjAAAPAAA

Whats wrong with the site? Its broken for me

ctrl+f5 on the page, it will fully refresh it – clearing cache/cookies that might be kittening it up.

Kolly.9872:

I bet their response will be “working as intended”

*Tooltip fix.

Kolly.9872:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I was interested until I saw she was running malice signet.

He was trying to figure out why no one use it in pvp.

So he sat there for 25 minutes reading it’s tooltip.

yolo swaggins.2570:

/15lizards

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zero Day.2594:

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zero Day.2594:

See…

They don’t balance for themselves, they balance for the top 0.01% of players.

And since the top 0.01 don’t do anything but +1 and decap, thief is fine.

0.01 rerolled revs lol

So, it’s not a substantial amount of players re-rolling to care.

Thief thus needs more nerfs

We should be on the balance team, we got this kitten figured out.

Cynz.9437:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zero Day.2594:

See…

They don’t balance for themselves, they balance for the top 0.01% of players.

And since the top 0.01 don’t do anything but +1 and decap, thief is fine.

0.01 rerolled revs lol

So, it’s not a substantial amount of players re-rolling to care.

See…

They don’t balance for themselves, they balance for the top 0.01% of players.

Amante.8109:

Honestly, every class—including Thief—is fully viable in Fractals, and that’s unlikely to change with Raids. That said, pubs will continue taking the path of least resistance as always; at the moment this means arbitrarily excluding Thief because it’s harder to play (and there’s a lot of bad Thieves out there).

This is yet another reason among many to not do dungeons or fractals with pubs. I do stuff like that with my guild, and despite them being total scrubs that’s enough. Speaking as a former hardcore raider in WoW and other games, the PvE content in this game is EASY. Do what you can to find an accepting group—be they friends or strangers—and you should be fine as a Thief in PvE.

This is very true.

In reality, as long as you’re running a build that makes sense – like you’re not spamming death blossom for conditions and lotus evade while wearing all power gear (that doesn’t make sense) – You should be pretty much fine/viable.

The problem comes from the extremist side of things, where there’s a “meta” and 1 way to do things, and it’s the “best” way to do things. Most people accept this, without much proof, since hey, they’re saying it’s the best way and a ton of other people are doing it, why need a proof. Plus no one wants to run with dweebs that attack squirrels instead of the boss and run/do weird builds – and if you pick a meta build, it at least shows you know how to google. This mass of people that accept the “meta” will screw over the other half/side of people… In a way, the ones blindly accepting the “meta” without questioning it are also dweebs.

The funny thing is, unless you do what narc has done in his 3 part video (aside from ripping on people..), there’s no way other than that to prove that something is better than something else (dps wise) – since we don’t have a dps meter, and we can only theorize and wave our hands while we talk about dps and meta kitten. Narc also, and I find it funny how it’s alien to the gw2 community, brought up that boss mechinics impact dps, and where sometimes ranged dps outshines melee or conditions outshine others – depending on the boss mechanic.

So, you’re stuck with between either not getting a group at all, playing with players (dweebs) that my not be performing well at all, or playing with dweebs that blindly accept meta and rejecting everything else. And then there’s an off-chance that you might get the normal people that understand that it’s not all black-and-white…

Though, logically, the best thing you can do for yourself, is to pair up with the meta dweebs, that way you can get into their groups, plus you can still get into groups that don’t follow meta and aren’t performing well at all, and you still get the possibility of getting into normal groups as well.

TL/DR:

It’s kind like this, if the -> represents who they accept besides themselves:

skill-less dweebs -> normals -> meta dweebs

:| You want to be on the far right, so you get accept by all the other groups. Plus you will have the ability to use your base-less authority (- power), due to being “meta”, to be kittens to all the other groups on the left.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Noticed the class then the title XD

Yeah, I also could’t let go of that.

And that’s why I rolled a necro and rev.

Also got warrior and guardian parked.

Related to the topic…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3sp8g0/guild_chat_raid_update_livestream_notes/

Live stream notes for the new squad UI – look through the images and look at the icons.

Guys, a moment in thief history just happened:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/This-is-like-finding-a-unicorn

AWWW yeah, a selfie.

Yeah like, in all the time I’ve played, I haven’t had a single pre-cursor or ascended gear drop. But this just happened.

WTS the original pic, with uncensored names, original mint-condition filename for 3k gold.

No way can this be real.

yolo swaggins.2570:

/15irrefutableproofs

Let’s see…

I still have hair, so that leaves only “you” and “hacker”. I don’t wear sunglasses and really don’t smoke… So that leaves “you”.

Man, I look kittening handsome – :/ now why am I having problems with the ladies…

RedSpectrum.1975:

Time to make a sword wielding shortbow build now, that hasn’t been done yet, might even use a dagger for offhand

… why?

Maugetarr.6823:

Fair enough. Like I said, I know nothing about archery really, but I knew about this video with a guy running and jumping and hitting targets that are at a 20-30 foot range, which just reminded me of thieves dodge rolling and hitting targets at 900 units.

As for the technique thing, there’s rarely 1 absolutely correct way to do anything especially when using different hardware from different cultures, so yeah, I’m leary of that. I guess it’s like saying the only way to shoot a gun is with a handgun technique which would certainly be awkward for shoot a rifle.

It’s just the first thing that came to mind and the closest to dynamic archery that you’d see in a fantasy game (that I’ve seen). I’ll leave actual archery discussion to people that know it though.

His style is really all about the way he reloads… as in holds, draws, and nocks (using modified “phillips screw” nocks (like his nocks are X while typical ones are just | )) the arrows, and of course on which side of the bow – allowing to “slap-on” the arrow. Perfecting his style of reloading you could achieve faster shooting speeds (what for?)…

Granted that our characters are super-humans, the way they draw the arrow, is nothing like Lars – thieves draw from their pretend back-quivers, which Lars rips on.

The dynamic aspect in his videos is kind of an additional thing to his style – reloading/fast shooting – the running and jumping around is part of the entertainment that makes his style look cool despite not having anything to do with his style… Like pretty sure the Turkish guy i linked before could jump and run around like an idiot if he wanted to… Just he’s demonstrating a style, not so much entertaining people

The dynamic component to the game, is just that we’re engaging in close quarters with a bow and need some mobility… so the characters are doing whatever the kitten they need to do to stay alive – including dodge rolling…

Which kind of goes back to… why are you in engaging in close quarters with a ranged weapon – are you trying to get yourself killed? Pretty sure archers in the military were still armed with a sword in case kitten got close and personal…

Maugetarr.6823:

Zero Day.2594:

Maugetarr.6823:

No one linked this guy for arrow shooting?

Because he’s a trick shooter that’s spreading false kitten.

Entertaining, but false.

---

Well, actually, the most useful place that “style” has is in things like archery tag…

Well, maybe, but he’s using that same right side of the bow technique that the Turkish technique you linked uses (visually, from someone who knows next to nothing about archery). As far as I can tell in this game, the in game ranges equate to roughly centimeters, so our 900 range is about 9 meters. At a 9 meter range, it seems that developing a technique for trick shooting/speed would be more valuable than long range shooting. (I mean our auto attack is “trick shot”)

True. The way that the character “reloads” the arrow, though suggests the other style (the first video i posted). While it would be useful… and at 9 meters even a 35lb is deadly enough…. doing what he’s doing with +60, or 110lb… just isn’t really possible without tiring yourself out at the very least (great, you shot 3 arrows fast, your arms are dead tired, can’t shoot anymore ;P ). Like he even tries to compare his style to the english longbow archers… who, volleyed arrows without aiming much – being kind of like an artillery for the army.

for horse back archery the turkish guy does it well. they also use thumb-rings (you can notice it in the video), and their style was developed for riding horses…

Claiming that his style (Lars’) is the one-and-only, the all-mighty be-all-end-all, is foolish, since every different style of archery evolved into what they are to meet certain conditions. Take for instance olympic style, they shoot at ~70 meters with about 50lb bows… the whole point for them is to be accurate and hit the 10/bull’s eye (which from 70 meters is the size of a needle point – or something you can hardly see) rather than shooting fast… They’re like “snipers” if you will.

It’s also funny…

The week that Lars released his 2nd video, and got a crap ton of views, was the week that the first man in history set the record of scoring 300 points (might be higher, basically it was a perfect score, 100% bull’s-eyes, 70 meters i believe) in an archery tournament. Meaning, scoring 10/bull’s-eye on all his shots. FIRST MAN IN HISTORY… Lars get’s more views/more popular/more known …

Basically, he’s the troll in the archery community, and the only contribution he has done is attract more people to archery – which then get curb-stomped by reality – since newbies picking up a bow and wanting to shoot like him… yeah…

Maugetarr.6823:

No one linked this guy for arrow shooting?

Because he’s a trick shooter that’s spreading false kitten.

Entertaining, but false.

Well, actually, the most useful place that “style” has is in things like archery tag…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Basically, I dont think there’s a way to pull out a nearly 30 inch stick from the back like that

It really depends on the type of quiver.

Might work, you still have it pull it out far enough that the tip isn’t in the leather part… The problem with the way that the thief pulls out an arrow is he does kind of a circular motion, that just doesn’t seem natural for a straight/line/stick thing that he’s pulling out. Like his hand is touching the shoulder while pulling the arrow out…

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zero Day.2594:

Strafing, and jumping is possible, though will decrease your accuracy (Though with practice…)… dodging … ha, you will probably break the bow (possibly impaling a limb on it), the arrows will be everywhere… basically you will look like a kitten.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i58zotTIDCU

Oh yeah I understand movement is a thing. I was trying to get at like how you said, all that movement, in addition to using a weapon that needs quite some aiming time, while drawing the arrows and lining them up. We didn’t even touch draw weight. I know its a game but this is fun to criticize and may give me another element to beg for a thief nerf. No way they should be able to be that agile with a bow AND bounce arrows

This guy does it pretty well, Turkish style archery, also done on horses – there’s a bit where he jumps up and down as if he’s on a horse… It takes stupid amounts of practice… and a different draw style. In the end he walks backwards and shoots, though kind of similar the the girl in the previous post, but still he does walks a bit faster so his arms are shaking a bit more…

Yeah draw weight is another fun thing… English longbows were typically 110-120lb… Good kittening luck shooting like the rangers shoot in game, consistently and for extended periods of times.

Shameless hijacked the thread…

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zero Day.2594:

Heh, looked it up it does actually resemble it. The only thing that DOESN’T resemble is the god forsaken idle… At that point you’re wielding a hammer.

RedSpectrum.1975:

…

That’s why every staff in the game prior to HoT doesn’t work thematically imo

And like 95-98% of all bows in the game don’t really work… Especially the metal ones. Essentially any material that doesn’t have good elasticity (crystal ones is another example)… Never the mind the speed of the shooting sequence and the possible penetration vs (say) heavy armor… Basically, our characters are super humans and their bows defy laws of physics/elasticity.

They do have more or less proper form, drawing, anchoring (though in mid air, but at least consistently in the same place), and releasing. At least on thief shortbow. Though the way they draw their arrow from their pretend back-quivers… suggests the arrow is EVERY short, or very soft and flimsy. They don’t extend their arm up as their drawing the arrow, they just kind of take it over the shoulder. The length (in inches) of an arrow is typically the person’s wing-span divide by 2.5 – so on an average person 28 inches…

And that’s ignoring the obvious fact that they are strafing, dodging, jumping etc AND shooting a bow?! Lol

Strafing, and jumping is possible, though will decrease your accuracy (Though with practice…)… dodging … ha, you will probably break the bow (possibly impaling a limb on it), the arrows will be everywhere… basically you will look like a kitten.

Heh, looked it up it does actually resemble it. The only thing that DOESN’T resemble is the god forsaken idle… At that point you’re wielding a hammer.

RedSpectrum.1975:

…

That’s why every staff in the game prior to HoT doesn’t work thematically imo

And like 95-98% of all bows in the game don’t really work… Especially the metal ones. Essentially any material that doesn’t have good elasticity (crystal ones is another example)… Never the mind the speed of the shooting sequence and the possible penetration vs (say) heavy armor… Basically, our characters are super humans and their bows defy laws of physics/elasticity.

They do have more or less proper form, drawing, anchoring (though in mid air, but at least consistently in the same place), and releasing. At least on thief shortbow. Though the way they draw their arrow from their pretend back-quivers… suggests the arrow is EVERY short, or very soft and flimsy. They don’t extend their arm up as their drawing the arrow, they just kind of take it over the shoulder. The length (in inches) of an arrow is typically the person’s wing-span divide by 2.5 (giving the archer’s draw length) plus in inch or a half for comfort- so on an average person, 28 inches is their draw length, so the arrow is about 28.5-29 inches… Basically, I dont think there’s a way to pull out a nearly 30 inch stick from the back like that. Closest thing to how they’re drawing their arrow is:

But even then, her hand/arm is a bit more up in the air when she’s pulling the arrow out. (See thumbnail for a frozen picture of her reaching for an arrow.)

Jana.6831:

Doggie.3184:

Zero Day.2594:

Joking aside, pretty sure both DH’s and Rev’s will be toned down… between now and the next 3 years ofc.

In three years when they redesign the trait system again to just be a straight line.

Esports live broadcast then: 10 players with their heads on their keyboards.

(gif brought into my hands by Zero btw)

You can catch a glimpse of his screen, and he’s playing a DH.

Wow… you guys are still at it…

You forgot the most important rule for fighting a DH:

YOU DON"T FIGHT A DH

Joking aside, pretty sure both DH’s and Rev’s will be toned down… between now and the next 3 years ofc.

Gabriell.4856:

Zero Day.2594:

So… What I’m getting out of this… is… that they should nerf vault?

No really. I don’t want the thief nerf any further. I just want them to go back and look at “thief” and buff skills so we have comparable DPS vs elite specs. BS is just one of those skills.

I’m not going to play into your hands and get this post added to the nerf wish list. LOL.

No no no… See, it’s much harder to re-do backstab into shadow stab… So the easiest solution is to nerf vault to be on-par with backstab ;D see… one takes reworking, the other takes a modification of a number.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Kolly and Keitaro, you guys aren’t seeing his sarcasm

Add Gabriell to the group.

So… What I’m getting out of this… is… that they should nerf vault?

Man, people need to stop whining about others whining. You’re not exactly helping.

Play what you enjoy but…

Don’t be disappointed to find out that you have to put in more effort to accomplish something than the amount of effort put in by other classes. And that your roles are very limited.

Don’t hold your breath for buffs that will have meaningful changes – you might suffocate and die.

What cynz had said is the reality of things, staying blind to it as long as you can will make the game more enjoyable on the thief.

Besides rewards… WvW is also missing depth – at least in my personal opinion.

By depth I mean why even fight or wage war against each other? Like all those epic battles that go on, what for?

There was a game couple of years ago, that had very literal depth to it’s war system. Every 4 hours a war would happen between the 3 races on the server, the war would last till one side would win (hell it could take 3 hours… but i think there was a cut-off), after a side won they got to mine resources that were only available for the side that had won. These resources would make the winning side stronger, in turn better for the next war, and better in other aspects of the game like “PvE”. In “PvE”, other races could still kill each other… So… if you saw players from another race leveling, you would want to kill them, because that would hurt their progress in making themselves stronger for war. If you knew guilds from other races were doing PvE bosses, you would want to get your guild rallied and go stop them, to again prevent them from getting loot and making themselves stronger for the next war. In turn every kind of action you did, kind of aided you in the next war – gained a few levels, got better gear, prevented other races from level or getting gear. There was a motive for war and for everything that’s not war (that is to get better for war). War was a BIG deal in that game, so-much-so that if you were in a guild and the war was happening and yet you weren’t participating, you would most likely be shamed by the guildies…

One race completely dominating other races didn’t really happen, since when it did happen (for a brief say few days (1-3)) the other two races would mutually ally each other to gang up on the one that was dominating them. Their alliance won’t last long either, because one side would always want to win more so it would screw over it’s ally causing drama and what-not, but really keeping the war balanced…

Now, that’s a massive amount depth to the war system, I’ve tried to keep the description/explanation short… But you get the picture, hopefully.

With GW2 moto of “play how you want and for fun”, it’s not possible to that degree. Yet, it can have more depth and impact than it currently has. For instance, the tiny WvW buffs that could get adjusted to be much much higher and lower if you’re on the losing end, even adding new buffs like magic find and exp… Making them have 100% or so for winning and like 10% for loosing, maybe 50% for the world in the middle… Maybe adding vendors that only sell you stuff if you’ve won the war. Suddenly people will care if they have that buff or not, causing them to participate in WvW, or at least do better for their world…

The other thing is the duration of the war, currently it’s 1 week, as epic as it is, it better have an epic “reward” at the end of that 1 week – 15% gather/crafting boost, some bonus chests (that give blues and greens) doesn’t cut it… Perhaps 2 days worth of something special? Again, those vendors, maybe a map only accessible the the victors of the war… Have the war run on monday to friday and the weekend for reaping the rewards… Optionally, have the war only last a day and then a buff/reward (while another war is taking place) be placed on the next day.

This perhaps could be an indirect solution to the current reward problem. Duration of war and the buffs/rewards at the end that I’ve suggested are just examples… They could be other things, other systems… Just the way it stands right now, the 1 week “war” is really non-existent, and is just a set of maps… So of course people will compare the rewards of WvW to PvE.

And don’t talk about WvW tournaments, that are far to few and far too lengthy, not to mentioned lower-end worlds get screwed anyway. :P

(~Tired late night rant~)

(Also, borderlands don’t feel nearly as borderlandy as they were in GW1, EB is a good no-mans ground, but the ABs really had that push-and-pull feel the to the borderland and middle/no-mans land. But yeah, that would be a bit more complicated to implement in gw2 – but not impossible either.)

Worse than 3 years ago, but better than it will be in 3 years.

Though for PvE anything works – But there’s a lot less thieves around in the new maps for w/e reason, I’ve seen more than 10 in total now (after play for 2 weeks of HoT?), but I’m sure there’s more.

Staff on DrD from what I gather is garbage.

Just stay Warrior or roll a Rev.

Didn’t they at some point (prior to HoT launch) say that they will have balancing patches every two weeks? Or did I misunderstand?

PopeUrban.2578:

Prediction:

Gunslinger will be an elite spec with rifle. They’ll put buffed ricochet in it. It’ll be a GM trait in the same tier as a capstone rifle trait so you have to choose between them. The other gunslinger traits will have a common theme of pistol/rifle/utility choices. People will be mad about it for a week just like feline grace/daredevil. Then everyone will forget about it after a few months.

Pulling a second stunt like that… won’t really look good on them or the Dev that’s in charge of such decisions.

Everyone makes bad decisions… though with something like this, a second time shouldn’t and won’t slip by.

SlayerSixx.5763:

This top .0001% that play the game to its fullest, find every abusable comp, stat and trait combo, etc. I’d expect ANET to take their advice more seriously than a person who plays the game for <10 hours a week.

They shouldn’t “listen” or depend on anyone to make the game actually balanced and not catering to the top .0001% or the 99.999% casuals.

Plus the top 0.0001% should adept a lot better than the remaining 99.999%.

Soon™

Don’t forget…

The extra dodge that thief got, was kind of what thief had with Feline’s Grace prior to acro being gutted.

Dakarius.3284:

turn 180 degrees and walk away.

And re-roll a dragon hunter or a rev. Then turn another 180 degrees and get back in the fight.

Aldath.1275:

Mefiq.7039:

If you want to play HoT, then no. Thief range options are pretty bad even with buffed pistols, Thief will die in melee from almost any mob. If you want to tryhard even in pve then go ahead, I dont enjoy getting killed by almost every mob.

Dungs/Fractal wise thief is probably on top of dmg chart.

Sounds bad since Raids and HoT content are inside my plans

For raids, level:

Druid,
Engineer,
Rev,
Guardian,
Warrior,

And maybe necro, mesmer…

Higher probability of getting in.

Even dungeon/fract, apparently to DnT, thieves are no longer at the top of dps charts… According to them, engie and rev are.

(not sure how credible they are though due to…)

I some how doubt that there will be a place for thief in raids unless there’s some very specific/niche mechanic they can fill. (So far it’s the idea of venom share, and possible mobility, stealth rezzing that might be needed…)

At the same time, I’m sure there will be non-“meta” pug groups that the thief will find a place in…

Essentially, only time will tell what will be the “meta” group comp for raids. At that point in time, it will be your decision whether you partake in it or not.

yolo swaggins.2570:

merrykitten .9423:

yolo swaggins.2570:

I think I lost a few brain cells reading this thread.

I found another thief player, of course thieves will try to troll on this legitemate thread, they don’t want their precious class nerfed. However, do thief players even have any brain cells to began with, I mean all they do is spam mindlessly

I found another player who’de rather have their wins handed to them than get better.

Thief has been designed like that since day one. If you won’t adapt or get better, then pvp isn’t for you.

Get baited son!

:P Congrats merry. Almost baited me and successfully baited yolo.

:( You didn’t like my math, yolo?

Jana.6831:

Zero Day.2594:

Don’t worry bro, you’re not a hacker till you’re caught.

Thanks gurrl!

I was quoting Azure, since he got all sweaty …

;D Hope I’m a hot girl at least.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jana.6831:

Anyway, I think at some point people will really be convinced that it’s impossible that a thief can kill them, so they will cry hacks every time it happens.

Don’t worry bro, you’re not a hacker till you’re caught.

I feel like this will be another dead horse beside the pile of dead horses that include capes, mounts, and build-saver.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Kageseigi.2150:

Zero Day.2594:

That mathematical model seems rather flawed, Dr. Kage.

Of course it does. It is based on ANet’s mathematical principles, not mine :-P

According to them…
(4,344 * 1.1) = 4,344

…

As flawed as that may seem, I believe it comes from the same notion of +1 for the thief. Since we’ve already established that 0 < T < 1, T is then a fraction. However, players cannot be quantified in fractal form, as in there can’t be a half a player, they then proceed to round up T, giving it a value of 1. Like wise 1.1 is rounded down to 1 so that 4,344 * 1 = 4,344.

From this we can also deduce that T may very well be 0.5 <= T < 1, since in order to round a number up it has to be at least half or more.

That’s some amazing math Zero. :P

However, the value of T fluctuates depending on the number of opponents in a given encounter.

For example, here’s a typical model of what is expected of Thief:
T=1 in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4

Thieves have zero contribution in these fights, might as well detach from the group and decap a node:
T=0 in Tv1, 1v2, 2v3, 3v4, 4v5, and 5v5

Thieves becomes a liability in these fight engagements:
T=-1 in 1v3, 2v4, 3v5
T=-2 in 1v4, 2v5
T=-3 in 1v5 (might as well not bother)

That holds true based on the belief of “+1” which is never an effective strategy. Take the 5v5 scenario for instance, since the Thief has zero contribution, if the Thief choose to detach to decap, he’s leaving his group outnumbered — which at this point won’t make any difference because he has zero contribution to the fight. Might as well make himself useful by trying to decap. The worst part is, this is the role of the Thief by design.

Perhaps we should rename the role to then be +T, where T<1. Or perhaps we should gather all our mathematical TEEEReee-crafters, to find the true value, or a function of T.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Lamuness.3570:

Am I the only one who misses Burnfall? lol.

I literally said this exact phrase a couple months ago, he would’ve been here like:

Friends, Anet have given us Revenants, but it seems thieves are the ones being haunted by their ghosts and demons of the past!

More like:

Friends,
ANet has realized the oppression that thieves caused to other players by their unfair and unchallenging low risk high reward game play.
They have given us the Revenant! A crusader of justice for the oppressed.
Unite brethrens to fight the unhealthy and not fun game play of thieves.
Use the scrapper to combat the unfair stealth that the thieves have.
Use the ranger to combat the unchallenging low risk high rewards that thieves get, by taunting with a pet.

Yeah… I miss burnfall. Same with darksyze a bit, he kind of buzzed off when I told him to play a thief for a month and then come back and talk… Wonder how that went for him.