Guild Wars 2

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Qugi.2653:

why post as question when not question?

Since he said this was the point of his post, maybe this is his question.

Here’s my point: Is there any way that the Arenanet team can let us know in advance when some sort of maintenance will be performed? I know I am not alone when Im experiencing sudden in game crashes due to maintenance that was unannounced. This can be very frustrating to the community and can cause unwarranted results from players.

But is there a true, factual, one answer to it?

I always thought that question based threads were for questions that had one answer to them. For instance “Did the gold rewards in dungeons get nerfed”, and the answer to that one is a simple “Yes.”.

This is probably more of a request?

Swift.1930:

Zero Day.2594:

Lacuda.8543:

…

Onto The Next Issue: Dragon’s Stand:
…seriously?

One of the most vital resources to the Guild Hall lies in Dragon’s Stand, during the event…the event that only comes up once with a 2 hour cooldown…the event that usually fails quickly then you’re stuck waiting yet another 2 hours for.
…

WAIT.

You can fail DS?
I need to try and do this.

It does happen, especially with the huge number of empty maps that people end up stranded on when taxis disappear 5-10 mins into the event.

Oh yeah, and there was that time when everyone got to the boss and then the game actually refreshed all their instances when the boss hit 50% (voila, same timer, but the boss had magically vanished and there was no reward or chest). That was a fun one. Happened yesterday.

I see… Have yet to happen to me.

The link to risegaming.org doesn’t work – have to manually copy-paste.

Just giving a heads up…

Lacuda.8543:

…

Onto The Next Issue: Dragon’s Stand:
…seriously?

One of the most vital resources to the Guild Hall lies in Dragon’s Stand, during the event…the event that only comes up once with a 2 hour cooldown…the event that usually fails quickly then you’re stuck waiting yet another 2 hours for.
…

WAIT.

You can fail DS?
I need to try and do this.

Jana.6831:

Morwath.9817:

Don’t get me wrong Cynz, but you’re complaining about Thieves all day (and night) long everyday and I haven’t seen a single suggestion in your posts what should be in your opinion changed to make Thieves viable again. Just random rants all around.

We’ve been through this since June – all of those you see frequently on this forum (thief forum – I mixed up the tabs, sorry) (except those who hijack every thread and tell us to shut up) have made a lot of constructive suggestions. It was the following “balance patch” in september when most of us gave up, I think. still some constructive threads here and there but we know it doesn’t really matter anyway.

^ This, so much this. I even bold-ed the parts to make it clearer.

;P Why waste your time/energy typing out a post on how to change/make things better (relatively), when it will be clearly ignored.

Don’t believe us? Click the Change Wish List in my signature. That’s just SOME that I was able to “track”. (Particularly the ones that are “Originally by:” and have a “Thread:” link)

I’m sure the same thing is happening on other class forums though.

Well a warrior is viable as a +1 in sPvP… Just saying…

Relax guys, you can still +1

Dont worry guys, you can still +1

mauried.5608:

Fantastic idea.
Looking forward to your source code to implement such a Monster.
Wonder why Ive never seen such a monster in other MMOs.

Because people are afraid to challenge crazy ideas and see failure as failure and not a step towards progress/success (you were taught in school that this is true).

Anyways,

Titanfall apparently off-loaded some of it’s AI onto the Azure cloud… HMMM possibilities…

Huh? What…?

Star Ace.5207:

Zero Day.2594:

@Star Ace

Define viable…

Fits a good players/good group’s composition that is able to eventually beat Raids with lots of practice as a whole team effort, just like any other Profession, but in different ways-as expected.

Thieves are not Engineers (or insert any other “better” Profession there), nor should they play like them-that doesn’t mean they are “not viable.”

Would I be in favor of boosts, especially regarding party wide support? Likely, but they are nevertheless viable even now.

Though “viable” has often been used inappropriately as “optimal”, the fact is no one can prove to you Thieves are NOT viable for Raids. I have seen different group compositions out there, and I am sure you could argue forever which is the most “optimal”-however, a Thief-less group must not necessarily be “sub-optimal” for a particular group that plays well together, and knows what each is doing and when.

(As far as ANet is concerned, what “people” think is “viable” is relevant as it relates to “Profession-perception”-players should feel like playing Thief/Daredevil in raids is effective and fun. Even though also, perfect Profession balance is more an ideal than a perfectly attainable goal, and one has to ultimately stick to whatever is enjoyable to play the most.)

Yeah. Viable is a bit hard to describe…

Player perception is just not where you say it should be either.

But I guess, we can leave all as is, and over time the player perception will change… Right? Because clearly everything is okay and it’s just the player perception that needs changing.

Serious Thought.5394:

We realized that Thief has two 1200 range abilities, and have thus decided to reduce them down to 900 range for clarity.

Scorpion Wire: Range reduced from 1200 to 900.
Steal: Range reduced from 1200 to 900.

God speed.

Yeah, it ruins the purity of the class. Good thing you pointed that out.

Kicker.8203:

they could fix it instead.

They could fix it.

Daunt.8239:

Zero Day.2594:

Guys, a moment in thief history just happened:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/This-is-like-finding-a-unicorn

LOL I don’t believe it, developers don’t play thief, they couldn’t if they wanted to.

I think he was reading which skill to nerf next.

Mefiq.7039:

Dont worry, anet will delete thief so problem solved.

It’s actually hard work deleting it, removing everything associated to it…

Best to keep it as a scapegoat for nerfs.

Mefiq.7039:

I rly want thief with melee scepter and shadow/vampiric skill kit. And give him Wells cuz aoe is fun.

So what you want is a necro?

@Star Ace

Define viable…

Wonder why does it even exists…

It really doesn’t do much to bots – just adds in a bit more complexity having them switch maps and so on…

So yeah..

Tried my first raid, spent like 3-4 hours wiping on the first boss…
(Actually enjoyed that, the group I was with was funny/friendly… )

At first I was a zerk reaper… Then I switched to condi thief, as part of the reshuffling…

So, Basilisk seems like a must. It rips through breakbars even if not shared. And venom sharing basilisk is probably the most useful thing as a thief. So yeah, condi-venom-share, will be the thief’s build if invited to a raid – that’s my gut’s feeling.

But yeah, you have to get invited first. And the way I did that was…. Got invited as a reaper first, then when people were swapping I offered to swap to thief too and they didnt deny… >.> So the old bait’n’switch tactic.

Considering it was a pug and the lack of damage meters, I have no realistic clue of where the thief stands in comparison to other classes. I would assume the place would be somewhere at rock bottom, but yeah.

Serious Thought.5394:

Maybe they promised Withdraw 10% buff so they could say they’d do it eventually, but really it was just a way to nerf Thief without Thief knowing? Nerfception >.>

It was placed on their table….

It’s on the table to be fixed….

Soon…

AlCojester.4316:

…
Please for the love of god stop embarrassing yourselves.

Well, it’s one of the only decent builds that can kill something.

Blame the devs, not us. They create and we use.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Daredevil is brainless (like old Acro) if all you did was spam evades. Against competent players, this hardly works in the Thief’s favor. I don’t really see your point as basically any build can be played mindlessly to some effect against people who don’t know how to fight it.

^ This so much.

Doggie.3184:

Now if only Guardian was faster and could Dash…

Might happen for the next elite spec set… Who’s excited for it!?

I was really looking forward to warrior getting dagger for it’s first elite spec with either shadowsteps or stealth as the new utility skill types.

Gramp.7482:

Arent thief one of the highest, if not the highest single target dps? Whats with all the thief are weak threads lately?

Every class are qqing that their own class is weak. Just play what u freaking enjoy. Every class is weak every class needs a buff

I highly doubt it. Though w/o busting your balls like nemsis did for his meta videos, there are no tools in game to check your dps.

Plus being the highest single target dps, doesn’t mean so much in any context….
Great you can dps… Can you also buff a party, can you hold a point? How well do you fair in long fights… Can you take on stuff yourself. Speaking about all game modes here…

So far, the most likely assumption is that thief is the most mobile – yet a way to prove that assumption. It would be kind of cool if there was a simple PvE adventure where people could race through an obstacle course, from there we could kind of see which classes top that ladder board.

Gray.9041:

MakubeC.3026:

Guys, can we ask for a buff on Skelk Venom too?
Too soon?

depends. do you want the buff in the patch notes or in the game?

Give it in patch notes, so he can get some hope at least.

It’s funny…

How trained people have become to expect a nerf once a patch comes out.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Kolly.9872:

Apparently “why thief is still missing the withdraw healing buff?” it’s not an “amazing question” that deserve so much attention by devs.

Honestly, it really isn’t a very interesting question. Sure it is probably something that should have been fixed, but thinking about the logic of your code is going to be FAR more interesting than changing some value.

I don’t know, where I work, developers are typically eager to fix a bug that has been spotted by a user or a colleague. I guess it’s like being called out on kittening something up.

Yes… yes…

You’ve suffered 3 years due to poor balancing patches…

For the next 3 years, take advantage of the poor balancing patches and play the most god kitten OP class that’s currently OP.

Well, depends on how you look at things.

I mean if you look at damage of two skills in one scenario, and ignoring the rest of the “world” of things, then yeah, totally fine!

Essentially it all boils down to their philosophy of “play how you want to play” and “for fun”. Meaning, make your own fun, cuz they won’t be providing it.

I too kind of struggle with keeping interest in this game, especially since everything in terms of rewards (err, something to strive for) seems to boil down to gold – Which for me, means playing the TP, which is kind of boring (once you get the hang of it, at first it’s thrilling…).

I think it’s their philosophy, in all honesty, that makes this game casual, and not exactly something that will suck your life away – whether you want it or not…

Casual in the sense that, find your own fun/do whatever to keep playing. Or rather not addictive as certain other titles used to be…

(Or maybe, you’re getting “older”/losing interest in gaming?)

Reality is, the meta group probably wont have thief. However this doesn’t stop pugs that don’t care too much for the meta to include a thief…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3tcwav/killed_vale_gaurdian_as_a_pug_may_be_helpful/

actually down a boss as a pug with a thief.

The guy was using venom share, for those that don’t want to click/copy-pasta the link.

Thing is, a spot in a raid for a thief will depend on how toxic the community becomes with adhering to the meta. And through my experience on the interwebz and games… yeah, it will obviously be leaning towards being elitist kitten bags.

Best bet at surviving as a thief and getting into a raid, is to find a nice cozy guild that will tolerate (and get used to) you using a thief in a raid… If you can’t do that, re-roll to w/e is considered meta and you will be able to find a spot.

:D And always remember, people are kittening idiots for the most part. Once a meta becomes popular enough, a good chunk of the population will blindly follow it. Make use of them to get into raids ;D.

:/ And unfortunately, due to things, I have yet to have log on to try the raids… Still trying to follow them as much as I can to see if they’re rewarding… THAT’S the most worrying part, at least to me.

Coming in 43 years in GW3.

I kind of hope, though, that in this fest of crying a river, no one is surprised of this (what’s happening).

Gray.9041:

Zero Day.2594:

It’s role is warming the bench on the side lines.

but we don’t have enough burning for that…

I guess it’s just saving a seat on the bench then, for some other class to come and take the seat. :\

It’s role is warming the bench on the side lines.

yolo swaggins.2570:

RedSpectrum.1975:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Next-Weapon-Set-Rifle/first#post2516746

Yeah…. Reaper is helluva fun… ironed out a nice rotation, that seems to be the best way to deal damage in my head… That’s in PvE, in my head… In sPvP, I suck with reaper…

Herald/Rev, it get’s boring pretty fast – like I want to say it’s more simplistic… or feels like it is… sPvP wise, running power-shiro/herald seems to get rekt by condis – just as bad as thief, though at least you ARE an assassin with shiro… PvE, it’s just fine, to a degree it’s range (hammer) is kind of kittenty, but o well…

Thief, staff as usable as it is kind of turns me off how it’s held/some animations (mainly idle..) – staff 5 looks extremely awkward, kind of tempted to make a char and norn to see/laugh at how it looks on them. Plus the dodges, besides the dash, again look kind of weird… Not sure what about lotus looks weird, but it’s not as aesthetically pleasing as a death blossom… Aesthetics aside, “old” builds still work, two new builds emerged (staff/sb, dd/sb – both using DrD line), “old” builds still have old issues… the two new ones, still have issues, but they feel like they could be more than just +1’ing and decapping – at least in low MMR/scrub-league (where I’m at kittenes! scrub’n’dem tubs)… Have yet to try P/P on the thief…

Comparing elite specs, we definitely got the short end of the stick… even after they’ve buffed the DrD grandmaster traits…

:D Though, f all that, for the next 3 years, gonna play w/e is OP (flavor of the 6 months) instead of sitting on my fav class hoping for change.

Xbon.9086:

Play the trading post… if you need tips contact me in game and I can tell you how to play it to perfection…. few days ago I turned 40silver into 450gold in the course of about 20 hours… but wasted it all on keys like I always end up doing.

if you’re good at self-learning, you can try to figure out https://www.gw2shinies.com/smart.php yourself, but you’ll have to make sure you know how to check item histories/know it’s an item that has a decent supply/etc.

^ Best way to make gold. Playing the TP.

Here’s another fun thing…

There’s already a dps meter in game, a very basic one. In sPvP, upon death you can see how long it took to kill you and what skills (along with damage) has killed you…

Kadin.2356:

The only manner of protest I can think of that might actually get some notice is to bomb the meta-critic reviews of HoT. Just saying “I’m not going to spend any more money until they fix this” is worthless as it’s invisible but meta critic reviews make bosses ask questions.

LOL

0 stars and the comment “Fix thief and the other classes kitten ”.

Bump to keep this discussion going.

Labjax.2465:

Trouble with the way the economy works is that you can’t just give people detailed advice on what to gather or invest in because then it loses its value as hundreds of people swarm the same thing.

It’s one of the few distinctive parts of GW2 that is anti-cooperation. You’re actually better off being selfish, or keeping tips to a few close friends.

^ So true.

Kolly.9872:

We bring challenge cos it’s challenging to bring a thief in party

They should give achievements out for completing something with a thief in the party.

Also, please contribute to this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/ArenaNet-personal-damage-meter

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

because there are many things a rare view mirrior just like a dps meter cant measure.
quote from paxthegreatone
A DPS meter doesn’t measure:
fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),
heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or
resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number
combo’s and comparables
outgoing conditions, and cleans
interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.
DOT or effective DOT
Average DPS/Time
and thus:
A value easily interpreted wrong when narrowminded

Yes when narrow minded.

“fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),”
- Hmm my dps was 21k with that warrior, without that warrior it’s at 15k… I wonder…

yes this one is easy but was it the warrior, or was it another player with a firefield, or the revenant, or influence of an elementalist, mesmer, or ranger??

“heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or”
- DPS meters often include a heal meter as well.

And how would you interpret the heal contributing to dps? secondly casting the heal will lower DPS, the fact people receive it (or not) due to persoanl movement could influence values a lot.

“resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number”
- Get your kitten in order, Ress’ing someone > personal DPS. Since once the person is ress’ed you as a group will produce more DPS than you not ress’ing him and continuing to DPS. BUT if you can’t understand that, or when that’s appropriate to do, it’s on you.

Yes when facerubbing the ground you do not do any dmg, but the speed of ressing (warrior vs others/runes of mercy and so on) could give a big change in DPS uptime and effectiveness…

“combo’s and comparables”
- Hmm I did 21k with that warrior putting down a fire field, but now that warrior isn’t putting down a fire field… I wonder…

luckily you forget water/blast (heals), toxic/blast (weakness), light/blast retaliation, fire/whirl (burning stacks), chaosarmor, firearmor and so on… combo’s are more then just might, yes might will give more DPS, you you haave any idea’s how much damage a firewhirl does when executed well? or when you have fast attacks on you firearmor

“outgoing conditions, and cleans”
- What? you’re saying the DPS meter won’t keep track of conditions? As for the cleans, that was never part of the judgment even in WoW. If damage was to be scarficed in order to keep the group alive, so be it. Hell in WoW it was a whole dedicated role that didn’t do (significant) damage.

conditions could be nice but DOT/DPS through conditions could be very influentual
weakness, vulnerability blind will help your party, but sometimes will not add to damage at all. Even though they might have been influential to your party.

“interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.”
- Like wise, WoW had mechanics where you need to press a button or something to not cause a wipe, it was accepted that people would do that – and of course the dps numbers would be lower.

Well interupts and the ability to break a breakbar are said to be very important, certain builds do not have much ability for breaking the bar, or only a limited amount…

“DOT or effective DOT”
- Conditions again? Pretty sure it, if implemented properly can keep track of that. Damage over time in general – isn’t that what a dps meter is? Damage per second – or Damage per time unit.

Well DOT is nice, stacking 15 burning and seeing 8k might be nice but if it only ticks 1 or 2 times the effect could be insignificant, either due to low uptime or fast cleansing, also the average duration could be nice and the % interupted/removed

“Average DPS/Time”
- What? Again, once you have the real damage number, you can slice and dice it anyway you like. Damage over seconds, Damage over 10 minutes, damage over 10 years. Average damage of 10 fights… You just need to know the numbers, which the damage meter can provide, given how it’s implemented.

DPS/s = burst spike, DPS/ period = average DPS per segment (during broken bars/or under x conditions/boons (if you can see it, preferably in graph), DPS/engagement overal combined DPS witout indvidual numers…..jut ask all values and you could work our dps/person… if the raid leader would combine this you could get actual values and/or untrue values… only requirement would be the actual hp estimate of the boss…

And at the end of it all, with a personal dps meter – only you will see it and only you will be judging yourself if you will/want to.

And if you would give this value to others your % effectiveness could be calculated, without any relevant other figures… also if you did say 8 or 9% of needed dps in a 10 ppl group would you be willing to tell, would you when you got 12 or 15%?

Understand if 4 ppl brag they did 60% together the other 6 would have been doing 6.667% on average, maybe some did actually do 10% then the values of the remaining players would drop even more….

Just having the numbers will mean some will use it to brag… also showing others are more likely NOT on the positive side….

Every kitten number in game, every occurrence of something, every event of something, EVERYTHING can be tracked. Then the relevant numbers can be used in the dps meter. And don’t let the Damage in the dps meter make you think it can’t track healing or boon counts or other things you’ve mentioned…. It can go as complex (not really complex) as how much damage you did due to combing off a X field. Number of resses vs downs. Come up with numbers required and they can be produced. Everything can be tracked within the game.

(This isn’t a world created by the unknown (god? big bang theory?) – this is a software created by people. People that have created it have the power to do whatever they want.)

Logical things like mechanic’s lowering dps or the need to res lowering dps, either the group accept that – or they’re idiots. Pretty simple, if they can’t prioritize things correctly, yet enforce certain DPS metrics – lol, they’re not elitist, they’re dumbases.

masterJP.5048:

Uhm…….. Well…….lol

Yes because ANet will be totally okay to have 5 thousand posts occurring each time a raid get’s organized.

Serophous.9085:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build.

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

its fine if a group does not want certain build, see you dont get my point, my point is all about the harm a dps meter will bring to the friendly community which is guild war 2! if you cant see that then you are not very smart!

HOW can a personal dps meter bring more harm.

Personal dps meter meaning, you will only see your own dps, you will not see anyone else.

PLEASE EXPLAIN.

For example before each raid, the raid leader ask each member of the raid to post their best raid dps average on some website or in the chat or through instant messaging! and those who do not qualify are asked to leave immediately!

What?

So the member can’t lie about their numbers? Now, that’s not really an effective way to check, so why would one even check.

Having a dps meter that produces logs that could be uploaded/posted somewhere counter-acts the personal aspect of a personal dps meter. It is also a feature that you’ve made up on the spot, it may not be implemented.

Sure, screen shotting can occur, but it will be more of a hassle of getting that screen shot across to the guy requesting it, and if that guy had set up various means for you to get that screen shot across, that guy would have probably kicked you later down the road for smelling funny (judging by his initial attitude). And of course this would all have to happen relatively fast upon joining a group – else you would join a group and wait 30-40 minutes for everyone to post their screen shots somewhere – Yeah like people will accept that kitten (well, maybe like a very tiny populace will, but, they would be too few). Come up with a simple way of getting a screen shot across for this purpose.

look I will be ok with a DPS meter as long as it will not be used to boot people, harrass people, intimidate people, and get people kicked out of a raid before they even had a shot at raiding! However, I am afraid that will not happen, because the very nature of a dps meter is elitist and it will cause a lot of grief among-est plaeyrs!

The very nature nature of a dps meter is being a tool.

Like a ruler.

You mean that tool that people use to hit each other with as well? In essence, using a tool not for its intended purposes?

Which again, you can argue the minority will use the tool properly, the majority will be the people abusing it.

Misuse of a tool comes from the user, not the tool so much. How the minority or majority use the tool, does not effect the essence of the tool.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

because there are many things a rare view mirrior just like a dps meter cant measure.
quote from paxthegreatone
A DPS meter doesn’t measure:
fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),
heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or
resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number
combo’s and comparables
outgoing conditions, and cleans
interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.
DOT or effective DOT
Average DPS/Time
and thus:
A value easily interpreted wrong when narrowminded

Yes when narrow minded.

“fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),”
- Hmm my dps was 21k with that warrior, without that warrior it’s at 15k… I wonder…

“heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or”
- DPS meters often include a heal meter as well.

“resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number”
- Get your kitten in order, Ress’ing someone > personal DPS. Since once the person is ress’ed you as a group will produce more DPS than you not ress’ing him and continuing to DPS. BUT if you can’t understand that, or when that’s appropriate to do, it’s on you.

“combo’s and comparables”
- Hmm I did 21k with that warrior putting down a fire field, but now that warrior isn’t putting down a fire field… I wonder…

“outgoing conditions, and cleans”
- What? you’re saying the DPS meter won’t keep track of conditions? As for the cleans, that was never part of the judgment even in WoW. If damage was to be scarficed in order to keep the group alive, so be it. Hell in WoW it was a whole dedicated role that didn’t do (significant) damage.

“interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.”
- Like wise, WoW had mechanics where you need to press a button or something to not cause a wipe, it was accepted that people would do that – and of course the dps numbers would be lower.

“DOT or effective DOT”
- Conditions again? Pretty sure it, if implemented properly can keep track of that. Damage over time in general – isn’t that what a dps meter is? Damage per second – or Damage per time unit.

“Average DPS/Time”
- What? Again, once you have the real damage number, you can slice and dice it anyway you like. Damage over seconds, Damage over 10 minutes, damage over 10 years. Average damage of 10 fights… You just need to know the numbers, which the damage meter can provide, given how it’s implemented.

And at the end of it all, with a personal dps meter – only you will see it and only you will be judging yourself if you will/want to.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build.

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

its fine if a group does not want certain build, see you dont get my point, my point is all about the harm a dps meter will bring to the friendly community which is guild war 2! if you cant see that then you are not very smart!

HOW can a personal dps meter bring more harm.

Personal dps meter meaning, you will only see your own dps, you will not see anyone else.

PLEASE EXPLAIN.

For example before each raid, the raid leader ask each member of the raid to post their best raid dps average on some website or in the chat or through instant messaging! and those who do not qualify are asked to leave immediately!

What?

So the member can’t lie about their numbers? Now, that’s not really an effective way to check, so why would one even check.

Having a dps meter that produces logs that could be uploaded/posted somewhere counter-acts the personal aspect of a personal dps meter. It is also a feature that you’ve made up on the spot, it may not be implemented.

Sure, screen shotting can occur, but it will be more of a hassle of getting that screen shot across to the guy requesting it, and if that guy had set up various means for you to get that screen shot across, that guy would have probably kicked you later down the road for smelling funny (judging by his initial attitude). And of course this would all have to happen relatively fast upon joining a group – else you would join a group and wait 30-40 minutes for everyone to post their screen shots somewhere – Yeah like people will accept that kitten (well, maybe like a very tiny populace will, but, they would be too few). Come up with a simple way of getting a screen shot across for this purpose.

look I will be ok with a DPS meter as long as it will not be used to boot people, harrass people, intimidate people, and get people kicked out of a raid before they even had a shot at raiding! However, I am afraid that will not happen, because the very nature of a dps meter is elitist and it will cause a lot of grief among-est plaeyrs!

The very nature nature of a dps meter is being a tool.

Like a ruler.

Serophous.9085:

…
People will be paying more attention to their numbers on the meter than what’s in the screen, thus missing when to dodge and just end up dying but “i hit 10k dps!”. Some people are downed and need help back up (note, not the dead dead, downed state), “but if I do that, my dps will suffer!”.

This is why even a personal one can cause problems, as again, focus will be on the meter and not the screen. Looking at it from a macro point of view, its a bad idea.

…
How many instances in a dungeon group in WoW did you have someone linking the dps meter? In other words, their eyes weren’t on the screen, but on the meter. Or how often did you see someone in a raid standing in fire, continuing to dps because numbers?

…

Like the other guy said, idiots will be idiots.

How do you know that someone isn’t texting his best-friend-forever during a fight?

It’s like, saying there will be more car crashes from installing rear-view and side-view mirrors – since some people won’t be able to take their eyes off them. SOME PEOPLE.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build.

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

its fine if a group does not want certain build, see you dont get my point, my point is all about the harm a dps meter will bring to the friendly community which is guild war 2! if you cant see that then you are not very smart!

HOW can a personal dps meter bring more harm.

Personal dps meter meaning, you will only see your own dps, you will not see anyone else.

PLEASE EXPLAIN.

For example before each raid, the raid leader ask each member of the raid to post their best raid dps average on some website or in the chat or through instant messaging! and those who do not qualify are asked to leave immediately!

What?

So the member can’t lie about their numbers? Now, that’s not really an effective way to check, so why would one even check.

Having a dps meter that produces logs that could be uploaded/posted somewhere counter-acts the personal aspect of a personal dps meter. It is also a feature that you’ve made up on the spot, it may not be implemented.

Sure, screen shotting can occur, but it will be more of a hassle of getting that screen shot across to the guy requesting it, and if that guy had set up various means for you to get that screen shot across, that guy would have probably kicked you later down the road for smelling funny (judging by his initial attitude). And of course this would all have to happen relatively fast upon joining a group – else you would join a group and wait 30-40 minutes for everyone to post their screen shots somewhere – Yeah like people will accept that kitten (well, maybe like a very tiny populace will, but, they would be too few). Come up with a simple way of getting a screen shot across for this purpose.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Zero Day.2594:

Nemesis.8593:

…

However without a damage meter i fear we are looking at another 2 years of “meta builds” which work from about 50% less of what they are advertised at via math-in-a-void all… the way to 5% based on the encounter’s mechanics.
…

Essentially this guys.

Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), there will always be a “meta”. A mass amount of people will accept like always, and will doing the normal/expected thing of excluding casuals and whatnot… It’s unavoidable, undeniable, inevitable – get over it.

So, why not have the proper tools to do it right? To actually build a meta on solid data rather than napkin notes. It’s not as harmful as people think. Of course they can make the dps meter just show personal dps, so that dps isn’t the reason someone is kicked (since other’s still can’t see it).

a damage meter is very harmful for the community it will destroy the very fabric of what makes guild war great! Guild war at its current state is a very friendly game. For example I just completely a level 100 fractal after 20 wipes and nobody complained we just kept trying until we succeed! now imagine what a damage meter will do? people will whine complain and boot, it is not the game i want!
plus I think a lot of the fun is not knowing how good your build really is, it is about experimenting and feeling the game and the character!

Couple of things…

The dps meter can be either personal or not-personal (group can see it), it will have different effects. In the event that the group can see your dps, that will be the reason they kick you. In the event that the group can’t see your dps, you will be kicked due to not complying with the “meta” (which WILL exist, regardless of having a meter or not.)

Having a personal dps meter, which will leading to creating a meta based on factual data will lead to better meta builds.

The fact that you wiped 20 times and no one complained, isn’t because a dps meter didn’t exist. It’s because the group allowed it, they weren’t impatient. Perhaps, they didn’t even care for meta builds either.

Having a personal dps meter will lead to no change in community, but will lead to solid meta builds with real numbers as proofs. Since, let me explain it again, since people won’t be able to kick you for dps (since they can’t see it), they will still kick you for not complying to the meta if it’s something they care about (which already happens!). Which again, in your case of wiping 20 times, people perhaps weren’t impatient and maybe didn’t care for the meta…

You’re not afraid of a personal dps meter, you’re afraid of the meta and the people that care too much for it.

---

Hell, it will even help you experiment properly with different builds.

I honestly don’t see any harm from having personal dps meters.

we dont need a dps meter for meta, as I have played many RPG I know all the harm a dps meter can do to a group moral. When I was raid leading in world of warcraft one of the biggest rules is never insult me the raid leader, because as a raid leader I am responsible for group moral. Usually what happens is a tank who thinks he is so valuable to the raid he can say whatever he want and insult anyone he wants, and it usually is a big surprise when I boot his kitten . You see where I am going? if people join raid, get booted, get harassed, get kicked, get insulted, this ripple effect will effect every other part of the game, and over time guild war 2 will become just like wow, and I did not buy guild war 2 because it is like wow, i bought guild war 2 excatly because it is not wow. I also strongly believe the best part of the game is not have a damage meter, this allows me to try different build and to get a feel for different build, that alone is worth the price of admission!

Okay, clearly you’re either not reading or/and or comprehending the things I’ve said.

Thanks for the small argument we had.

i can say the same thing about what u said! you dont seem to understand me clearly either! have you played diablo 3? do you see a damage meter in that game? and does everyone in that game optimize for best build and can everyone run high great rift? i mean very high? you are obviously a noob to mmo!

Yet, meta builds in that game still exist. Groups still don’t take you seriously if you don’t run a certain class and certain build.

Not sure how that’s different or better. It’s the same, and a personal dps meter will not change that.

its fine if a group does not want certain build, see you dont get my point, my point is all about the harm a dps meter will bring to the friendly community which is guild war 2! if you cant see that then you are not very smart!

HOW can a personal dps meter bring more harm.

Personal dps meter meaning, you will only see your own dps, you will not see anyone else.

PLEASE EXPLAIN.

Hell, maybe I’m not smart. Care to enlighten me?

Btw, your personal attacks, are really showing how friendly the gw2 community is. Keep at it buddy.